Sydney’s tolls ‘discriminatory’
January 5, 2009 by Matt Brogan
Sydney’s northwestern motorists claim the city’s road tolls are discriminatory and are in some instances paying up to $23 per day just to get to work which in turn is affecting where they work and how they socialise.
Toll increases on the Lane Cove Tunnel, the Cross City Tunnel and the M7 Westlink have angered commuters who are frustrated at the lack of cheap and efficient transport options in Sydney’s west and northwest.
With North Shore residents attracting only the Sydney Harbour Bridge toll, and those in the southwest getting the M5 toll reimbursed, those in Sydney’s northwest claim the State Government’s tolling policy is discriminatory.
“If you want to get to the city faster you’ve got no choice but to drive,” said father-of-two Mark Unwin, 42. “I live at Kellyville Ridge and my wife and I pay almost $17 in tolls per day to get to North Ryde and back home for work. The only other option is to get a bus – that’s a trip of about an hour and 45 minutes each way.”
Kristine Elliott, of Bella Vista, said her commute to work at Rosebery each day begins at 5.45am to avoid the heavy traffic along the toll roads. She uses the M7, M2, the Lane Cove Tunnel, the Sydney Harbour Bridge and the Eastern Distributor, a trip that costs $23.56 return.
“It chews up my car allowance,” she said. “When you’re paying that kind of money, you wonder why you bother working at all.”
Many argue the rising cost of Sydney’s toll roads has made it too expensive to travel to the city for shopping, trips to the beach or entertainment. From Rouse Hill, site of the State Government’s scrapped northwest metro link, a trip to Bondi Beach costs $10.78.
Families taking public transport can catch a bus to Blacktown, a train to Bondi Junction and another bus to Bondi Beach – but it takes more than two hours. And yesterday the cost of single train tickets for trips of fewer than 35kms rose by 20c-60c.
“It’s not just the cost, it’s the time,” said Mark Condon, 25, of Windsor, of commuting from the northwest. He drives to Rhodes each day for work, using the M7 and M4, “I sit in traffic for three hours each day. That’s time I could be spending at the gym or with my family.”
And from January 27, the cost for motorists crossing the Harbour Bridge in peak times will rise from $3 to $4, although North Shore residents get off lightly if going into town.
Even commuters from large slabs of southwest Sydney get a better deal, given the Cashback scheme former Premier Bob Carr introduced in 1996 when he backflipped on a promise to scrap tolls. The cost of the M4 and M5 tolls, if using E-Toll tags, is reimbursed by the Government, meaning all taxpayers have paid $689 million since its inception.
But it is those coming from the southern suburbs – Sutherland Shire and Cronulla way – who have escaped paying any tolls.
Source – Daily Telegraph
Print it: 
Its even worse on the M7 “ring-road” [it links the M5-M4and M2] which is a no cash e-tag only operation where motorists are charged deopending upon the distance they travel – on a per kilometre basis
However; given that NSW has approximately 4m people and has all these tollways [they're no longer freeways] whereas SA and WA have approximately 2.5m people and don’t have a tollway in either state shows you how poorly run NSW is.
Because; when a State Government signs a contract with a private comapny for them to build and operate a tollway is virtually admitting that they are unable to meet one of their primary functions which is design build and maintain an effective and efficient transport system.
Therefore; motorists are having to pay for the NSW Governaments inabilities inadequacies incompetencies and inaction.
What’s more is that those who can’t afford e-tags have no other alternative but to use NSWs unsafe unreliable public transport system on either bus or train.. makes you wonder where the “profits” from the 2000 Sydney Olympics went doesn’t it?
it really does suck for people in the west and north west.
kind of makes me glad i live in the sutherland shire and don’t have to go on any toll roads (yet).
I realise other alternatives such as The Northern Road Parramatta Road Victoria Road etc.. but they’re so dilapidated and congested that you’d spend just as much money in petrol in stop start traffic etc.
Infact on ACA they did a test which showed that in Peak Hour it takes just as long to get around Sydney on the Motorways as it does using the main roads.
Problem is for years the NSW gummint has been reactive not proactive – that is they wait until its too late and build the roads [or whatever] long after they were needed.. by which time the construction etc causes more inconvenience and disruption not to mention costs more.. they have no foresight or forethought.. whereas WAs transport system is more efficient and more integrated because it was planned.
I know it is easier said than done, but why don’t these people change their work to somewhere closer, telecommute or move to another city. Sydney isn’t that great compared to the other cities in Australia.
I can’t fathom spending 3 hours in traffic every day for years on end, it would be absolutely life sapping. Make a change, it can be done.
The next step is for large companies to stop gravitating toward a city skyscraper and relocate to a suburban office on a larger plot of land with staff parking in place. In these days of excellent communication, you don’t need to have all your staff near other companies. Maybe set up a smaller satellite office in the city.
People have to vote with their feet to make a change.
Supercujo – I used to live in the Blue Mountains in NSW.. yet I have relatives who lived in the Eastern Suburbs who wouldn’t dream of travelling any further west than say Broadway.
Not only that but when I told my friends and family in Sydney that I was moving to Adelaide; they’d ask “Why would you want to go to Adelaide?” I’d ask them “have you ever been there? they’d reply “No; but why?”.
That’s how insular Sydney-siders can be.. [they're almost as bad as Americans]
They’d rather see the rest of the world than see the rest of Australia – sad really
What makes things worse is the fact that M2 resembles a parking lot in peak hour traffic. Heading towards the Sydney CBD in the morning on the M2 is absolute chaos; and commuters pay $4.60 for the “privelege”.
Well said Supercujo.
My partner and I sat down and realised that over 1 year the toll from Quakers hill to the city/Hunters Hill where we work is over $12K for two vehicles each way. $60K in 5. So we found a house closer to work and factored in the cost savings vs a bigger mortgage. Moving closer is cheaper over 10 years than paying tolls, and we have a shorter commute and more time together. I dont know how this compares with public transport though.
I would recommend everyone do the numbers first before committing to live in the N/west, that is of course if your job is in town. This is a clear case of poor infrastructure planning and an unfair tolling system and we have 30 years to wait until they fall back to public hands like the bridge is now….
The reason those in the south-west get toll rebates is because they are Labor electorates, simple as that.
i know i said this before,
there is no way the gov’t should get private enterprise build tollway paying roads.it is a huge cash cow.i sometimes wonder why people don’t vandalise toll and speed camera’s,like the odd train that gets done in sydney.
i’m with supercujo,sydney can’t be THAT good.i love listening to ONE song on the way to work each day…
Hmm, very interesting thread. Living close to the city (because I work there) is my solution for now, but I have been wondering (for some time) what the “real” solution is for Sydney / NSW.
Surely the answer is the public transport system being well and truly overhauled so that it is is touch and go whether you are better off driving or being driven (or better still the P/T system is quicker). The real economic dynamics of this are plain to see based on the above. Property values will rise in outer lying suburbs as they become more sensibly attractive.
It’s clear however that the current NSW government (and the opposition) are never going to do what is necessary, and that’s a wholesale re-design and implementation of a real public transport system which is “designed” for growth and efficiency and to make it attractive to live more than 10 km’s from where you work without being stuck in traffic. Of course then the next logical issue is that the roads don’t need to grow as much or as fast as they are pressured to now. It’s a simple change of attitude and focus, but it takes a real b*lls approach. It won’t be completely achieved in 1 parliamentary term either, so that’s a problem.
Visiting London last year (2008) I was amazed at how efficiently I travelled from an outlying suburb (Tunbridge Wells) to the CBD and around the CBD and back again on public transport in peak hour in one of the busiest cities in the world. BUT, the return train fare was over 23 pounds Stlg and that’s significant (yeah it’s a lot cheaper if you buy weekly tickets or Oyster cards etc). Get’s one thinking though, if the UK can do it, why the hell is it so hard in NSW.
Stupid enough to move to the “Hills” then u deserve what u get.LOL.
Yeah the Shire is the place to be and the people are civilized!
The South West i.e Campbelltown and hinterland are the best located areas in Sydney only prob is there are too many ignorant Bogans.LOL.
Labor know their heartland is elsewhere & don’t care about the north & west as their will never be a vote in it for them.
“Yeah the Shire is the place to be and the people are civilized!\”
So “civilised”, its residents decided to act on their “white superiority” mentality by way of violence against minority groups. All that was missing were the white hoods.
Ray, the Cronulla riots wasn’t about “white superiority” as the media loved to suggest.
It was about respect for Shire residents homes and their surrounding environment by those visiting “the Shire”.
Also, I would hardly call the Lebanese (as a whole) a minority group in Sydney, the true minority group in all of this was in fact the small number of violent male offenders (both Australian and Lebanese). Nearly all of whom have subsequently been brought to justice by your “white supremacists” in power. Go figure.
Anyway, in reference to the article, the simple reason that Shire residents don’t pay tolls yet is because we don’t have any toll roads yet (duh!), and the simple reason is because the Shire is a “safe” political electorate.
South-West Sydney doesn’t get special treatment because they are a Labor electorate. They get special treatment because they are a “swing” electorate.
The Hills we build and they will provide outlook has certainly let these people down.
Here’s a tip if u don’t want to be stuck in grid lock getting to work everyday buy in a suburb that has a train station.LOL.
And yes the “Shire” is the best place in Sydney because there are more decent people in the one place than any other part of Sydney plus the advantage of trains,proximity to the sea,national parks etc,etc.
I live in Bogantown but would move to the Shire in a heartbeat if I could afford too.
And yes Ray Anglo middleclass majority not a bad thing either and I am a wog just like u.LOL.
Wheelnut,
What a stupid idea.
Please dont ever promote the idea that has already been taken by many and move to QLD. ha ha ha ha
PCR,
I agree.
Londons Public transport operates very smoothly for the volume it carries. I also found it very easy to Navigate.
I also find Melbournes Public system fairly easy and flowing to use.
And as a surprise i also found the public system in Bankok easy and flowing to use.
BUT…..
Ive never used Sydneys system to compare
In QLD they are setting up a few sattelite cities. Some already started, some have the planning approved.
I suppose we have a fair size bigger chunk of land up here though.
You still got acerage estates down there an hour from the CBD Guys??
Darn it!!!!! now Im selling it (Bangs Head)
Makes me glad I’m in QLD and yes we don’t need more “mexican” drivers up here. Heaven knows QLD has MORE than it’s fair share of lousy drivers!
So let me get this straight……people who live in the northern (affluent) suburbs pay more in tolls? Isn’t that just like the tax system? If you have more the government will take more from you.
No Simon, it’s the people in the outer western/north-western suburbs who have to pay more in tolls, not the more wealthy northern beaches/north shore residents
Realcars, It’s fantastic to simply say “move to a home near a station”, if only it were that easy – fat chance of finding a home like that for starters, and then you’ll need all the luck on earth to be able to secure the loan needed to buy the damn place in these financially-tight times. Your bank might “lol” at that small request
Andrew M, I’ve just come back from a few weeks in Sydney and I have to say the worst part about their transport system is the ticketing – it’s a nightmare. Melbourne has a far simpler and more user-friendly system, and in my opinion, one that offers far more value for money that the “every-sydney-train-station-on-the-one-machine” method of the Harbour City
Simple fact is the NSW Govt should be investing in new public transport options for the Greater Sydney region so that people all throughout Sydney and it’s surrounding suburbs have the option of Public Transport
I guess it sucks to be in Sydney period.
Every day I am thankful that I have a 10 minute ferry ride to work on Sydney Harbour. Yep, Sydney still takes the cake.
Quote [Neil]: Simple fact is the NSW Govt should be investing in new public transport options for the Greater Sydney region so that people all throughout Sydney and it’s surrounding suburbs have the option of Public Transport
One problem.. Sydney/NSW the Pseudo Capital Of Australia is Broke.. Bankrupt
“Sydney’s pollution sparks health warning” headlines from the ABC.
Such a lovely city…………..
Wheelnut, it’s why i feel sorry for Sydneysiders everyday – their suffering will only get worse (what they need is something like a NSW-version of Jeff Kennett really)
At least the Brumby has some sort of plan…even if it isnt totally funded yet…
Love Queensland and definitely is the progressive State but I can’t stand the unrelenting Humidity.LOL.
Plenty of suburbs near stations here in Bogantown but u have to live with the locals.LOL.
Avoid Roseghetto (as if I need to tell u after recent events)
Must admit a better choice than Blacktown and environs though.LOL.
Neil, Heritage Heights is an affordable suburb dotted with MacDonalds Mansions only minutes drive to Bogantown station with sweeping views of Roseghetto to boot.
U can’t go wrong!Lol.
Realcars,
you dont like the humidity here in QLD???
good, tell yourself and friends not to come then ha ha ha ha
Its called climatisation.
I prob couldnt move south due to the colder winters.
I also would miss the cracking thunder storms.
More predicted from tomorrow onwards :)
You gotta love an awesome lightening show accompanied by the smell of the rain washing away the heat….
Japanese Public Transport is the best I’ve travelled on.
Clean, safe, and almost always on time!
Considering the size of the Tokyo – Yokohama metropolitan area and the approx. 36 million living in this area the efficiency of trains and Shinkansens is mind boggling.
It makes me sick when I’m trying to catch a train from Martin Place and it’s 10 minutes late for no reason…
Andrew M, it’s actually called acclimatisation.
noun:
adaptation to a new climate (a new temperature or altitude or environment)
Snap! You’re the boss Grammar Nazi!