GM Holden confirms small car production | Car Advice

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GM Holden confirms small car production

By David Twomey |

GM-Holden has confirmed the most rumoured decision in the Australian automotive industry, that it will follow the lead of rival Ford and build a small car in Australia.

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GM Holden Chairman and Managing Director, Mark Reuss, made the announcement at a press conference today and said the new vehicle would begin production in the third quarter of 2010, with both Federal and South Australian Government financial assistance.

The vehicle, which will be built on the GM global platform know as Delta will be built in the Elizabeth, South Australia, manufacturing plant, alongside the current Commodore.

The plant currently builds the Commodore, including export versions which are sold as Chevrolets in the Middle East predominantly, and in the United States where they are marked as Pontiacs. It previously also built an earlier version of the Vectra.

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It would appear that the project will not add jobs to the South Australian workforce as Mr Reuss said the program would require 500 to 600 existing employees at Elizabeth and is estimated to provide 500 to 600 local supplier positions.

The vehicle, based on General Motors’ global Delta small car platform and feature new technologies to increase fuel efficiency and reduce greenhouse emissions.

The new front-wheel-drive vehicle will be built as a sedan and hatch and design and engineering work will take place at the company’s headquarters in Port Melbourne, Victoria.

Mr Reuss said start-stop hybrid technology and capacity to run on alternative fuels such as E85, diesel, LPG and Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) are all being considered for the vehicle’s development.

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It will be GM Holden’s first locally produced car beyond its current range of larger vehicles since the Asian economic crisis ended Vectra production in 1998.

The vehicle will be built in the south bodyshop of the Elizabeth facility, which was previously used for the Vectra assembly in the late 1990s.

Mr Reuss said the announcement provided an opportunity to take a leading role in developing alternative fuel and fuel saving technologies in Australia for Australians.

Mr Reuss said the program would be a major contributor to the economy, generating an estimated $70 million to $80 million in wages and $30 million in research and development.

“Together with Government, we are extending the scope and consumer appeal of our local manufacturing efforts,” Mr Reuss said.

“We have been building Holden cars to suit the needs of Australian motorists for 60 years and these plans build on that tradition.

“We recognise the needs and desires of motorists are evolving with growing concern around environmental factors and shifting consumer sentiment.

“Such evolution calls for an innovative approach to complement our current offering.

“Just as our leading Commodore range will continue to undergo technological development, this new vehicle will cater for growing demand for smaller cars focused on economy.

“We are planning for the future to produce a wider range of cars in Australia to cater for a variety of driving needs.”

He added that flexible manufacturing infrastructure would be introduced to the Elizabeth plant to make it capable of producing a series of GM global vehicles in years to come.

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It also provides opportunity to develop an export program for the vehicle, particularly to other right hand drive markets around the world.

Mr Reuss paid tribute to the Federal and South Australian Governments for their ongoing commitment to the Australian automotive industry.

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“The Rudd Government’s Green Car Innovation Fund has provided opportunity to turn our plans into reality,” Mr Reuss said.

“This announcement complements the vision we share with the Government of reducing Australia’s dependence on foreign oil and making motoring better for the environment.

“It demonstrates commitment to an Australian automotive industry which extends beyond manufacturing at GM Holden to thousands of suppliers and dealers across the country.

“That demonstration was clearly seen by our parent company in its decision to support this program.

“The support of the Federal and South Australian Governments in securing this program recognises the fundamental role which automotive manufacturing makes to national and state economies.”

GM Group Vice President and Asia Pacific President, Nick Reilly, today added his support to the program as proof of GM’s capacity to innovate across the region.

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“This announcement recognises the ability of GM, GM Holden and the Australian automotive industry to see the future and move in the right direction,” Mr Reilly said.

Holden isn’t giving a lot away about the exact detail of the new vehicle, unlike Ford, which is well advanced with planning to build the next generation Ford Focus in Melbourne from 2011.

The new small, front-wheel-drive, four-cylinder vehicle to be built by GM Holden at Elizabeth will be based on General Motors’ global Delta small car architecture.

Other examples of the architecture will include the next generation Chevrolet Cruze and Opel, Vauxhall and Saturn Astra.

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The architecture was primarily developed by GM Europe in Russelsheim, Germany for GM markets around the world.

Local design and engineering work on the Australian vehicle will take place at GM Holden’s Port Melbourne headquarters in Victoria.

Direct injected petrol and diesel variants of the vehicle will be produced with GM Holden considering a range of alternative fuel or fuel saving technologies including E85, LPG, CNG and start-stop hybrid capability.

Further details about the vehicle including its nameplate, design specifications and pricing will be determined closer to the time of production.


 
  • http://www.caradvice.com.au Matt

    Holden (Opel) Astra, Saturn Ion, Pontiac G5 share the Delta platform – wonder which it will be, or if it is something new? Torana any one?

  • HSV

    *******PRIMAS********
    Hope HSV get behind this. Although it won’t have a V8 so prob not worth driving. Also not worth it if it is front wheel drive only girls drive FWD. Go the mioght HSV

  • o

    So no cruze then?

  • Barneyridge

    HSV …… you are a moron and a idiot.

    If your look at the Vfact’s sales figures you will see that the front wheel drive corolla outsells the commodore. Whilst I would not entertain the idea of driving a corolla, why don’t you consider that the only way in which the local manufactures will continue to produce cars in this country is if they are to produce cars that people buy, whether they are 4 cylinder and/or front wheel drive. Why not give some credence to both Ford and now Holden that they are going to produce a local small car that people are buying, or that the sale figures give evidence that they are turning to.

    Maybe this strategy is the only thing that is going save the locally produce RWD large salon that obviously you and I like to drive.

    By the way shouldn’t it be PRIMO and not PRIMAS….or are you trying to start something different ?

  • Myke

    So… Holden aren’t building a ready made small GM car in Australia (like the Astra or Cruze), they are starting from scratch, apart from the platform? Financially that doesn’t seem like a wise idea, where apart from Australia, will they sell this vehicle?

  • Adam (aka Mada)

    Well, well.

    Doing the same as Ford OZ.

    Will Holden export this like the locally made 2011 focus?

  • http://skyline The Salesman

    To make it truly Australian they should do a web based poll to find out what Australians want (since we paid for it), please don’t just regurgitate some American car and hope it finds a market. And maybe a diesel Commodore? Please….

  • FRUGAL_ONE

    Does Holden really need another FWD in its fleet?

    This would have to replace one that is already being sold?

    Looks like its just a cash grab of that 6 billion from GovCo.

    I would rather they make a Compact RWD like the 118/120 BMW
    fitted with V8 [for HSV sales only] and small [4cyl = economy or better] V6′s for the rest of us.

    Could even call it a Torana!

    Cheers

    F-0

  • http://holden LloydS

    This company has no foresight. It took a huge bucket of government money with strings attached to force GMH to seriously consider building a car with some sustainability credentials. They will be playing catch-up after giving Hyundai about a 2 year start. Hyundai’s LPG hybrid is planned to be in production mid 2009 and I’ll be very surprised if GMH can come up with something that can claw back market share from Hyundai who will also have their mid sized LPG/petrol hybrid on sale by the time GMH’s car hits the showrooms.

  • Frenchie

    The new 4 cylinder is going to be a totally different design. Not the Cruze or Astra. My understanding is that it is to get a new type of 4 cylinder engine that will be very fuel efficient. The new car will also be setup to run diesel, E85, possibly CNG or LPG but the main design for future sets it up to be a hybid as well.

  • Phil

    Antispam = Daewoo… So it’s the new viva?

  • Bret

    Phil, in a word YES.
    Lacetti Premiere by Daewoo.

  • JEYKL & HYDE

    my mail is still astra,it would be good to get the sedan back,just like europe…cruze will be daewoo still(cheaper price point)

  • Bret

    The Real Headline:
    HOLDEN TO BUILD NEW DAEWOO AT ELIZABETH.

    Quote:
    “The primary engineering and development will come from GMDAT. Codenamed GMX071, the car shares many components as well as styling features with the next Daewoo Lacetti, including a large portion of sheetmetal”

  • Frenchie

    LloydS:
    An article was written on car advice website saying that Hyundai are getting money from the South Korean government, although they deny this.
    I think they are, all car manufacturers from all around the world will always get assistance from there respected governments. Manufacturering provides alot for GDP.

  • Adam (aka Mada)

    The salesman,

    Why is a diesel engine, in commodore or falcon the answer?

  • http://skyline The Salesman

    Adam (aka Mada)
    Australia is the second biggest obese nation, sounds horrible i know but true. We also travel the greatest distances between city’s I will use my family as an example. I am 191 cm and a little less than 120kg. My wife is 160 cm and around 80kg (sorry dear). My six year old is over half my height and my four year old is not far behind. We need a big car as a family, so what are the choices at the moment?
    I need space but i don’t want a 4×4, i want economy but a four cyl, and it is not powerful enough for long distance driving or towing a caravan or boat. What else is in the market Commodore or Falcon size with a diesel motor?

  • Wheelnut

    Matt – the article says that the car will be a small FWD which means it will most likely be the new Astra or a similar car which uses the Delta Platform; like the Cruze.

    The mediums sized Insignia is RWD

    I would much rather see Holden build the Unsignia here and badge it up as a Torana not only because its a more familiar name with Aussies.. but because the cars which use the Delta Platform are being built in Europe America China and Korea.. Whereas ATM the Insignia is only being built in Europe.

    Therefore; given the free-trade agreement.. we could import Astras from a low-cost Pacific neighbour like China [for example] and build the Insignia here instead of importing it from [expensive] Europe.. Not only that but it would also take advantage of Holdens RWD expertise.

    Although the Insignia can also be built as FWD and AWD too – so the insignia is still a possibility.

    For more info I suggest you read the article in the current issue of Wheels

  • Adam (aka Mada)

    I’m struggling to to understand the advantage of a diesel engine though.

    I understand the requirments you have and many other have for a large family vehicle.

    Diesels cost more to purchase, service and the price of diesel cancels out the advantage diesels has over petrol for fuel consumption.

    You’re much better off simply converting a current commodore or falcon to gas.

  • Adam (aka Mada)

    Wheelnut,

    The insignia is a large FWD vehicle.

  • http://Mini Ben Larden

    Why bother. Keep rebadging Daewoos lol.

  • Elitist

    MARK my words-
    2011 platform for sedans will be based on Chinese Brilliance Sedan…

  • Wheelnut

    Salesman – I would like to see Holden build the Insignia here and call it the Torana. Why?….
    - It would take advantage of Holdens RWD expertise.
    - The Insigina can be built in FWD RWD and AWD.
    - GM CEO Bob Lutz has said] the Holden plant in Elizabeth
    is one of the most flexible in the GM Hierarchy
    - It would be cheaper to import Astras from China [where
    other cars using the Delta platform are being built]

    PLUS

    - Chrysler shows how poorly suited American built/styled
    cars are to the Australian Market.. They’re F-N hideous
    [We have more sophisticated European tastes.

  • Adam (aka Mada)

    Elitist,

    I think you need a new crystal ball…:)

  • Richo

    There is alot of bullshit being spoken on here… the car will be built in the delta platform ie same as the next astra and chevy cruze. IT SAYS THAT RIGHT THERE IN THE ARTICLE! Most of the engineering and development work will be done in europe by GM, not GM-DAT (daewoo), however GM-DAT will build a variation of the car. Essentially it will be the same as the chevy cruze just with a number of locally engineered changes to drivetrains and suspension. Think of the difference between the aussie mitsubishi 380 and the yankie mitsubishi galant and you’d be on the mark.

  • Richo

    isn’t it interesting that when ford said they where going to build the focus here, nothing but praise, when holden does the same, the same old suspects come out with their usual negative dribble about daewoo, even though this has nothing at all to do with daewoo! There are just so many nobheads on this site

  • Captain Mainwaring

    This is fantastic news for Australia, but every poster has so far completely missed the point.
    If life support won’t keep the mothership in Detroit going long enough, none of this will happen.

  • LSD

    Holden again following the lead of FORD. Anyway, isnt it a bit of premature ejaculation? GM have only been given money to last them through to next March, who knows what will happen to them then ? GM is in debt 60 BILLION DOLLARS so how the hell can they fix it all up in 3 months ? They are still a very strong chance to go down the toilet……lets hope so.

  • Bret

    Richo,
    GM claims that this (these?) car(s) are a product of a “global development team” but admit that “The primary engineering and development will come from GMDAT”.

    Think Daewoo engineering with Euro styling.

  • Adam (aka Mada)

    I don’t see any more negative spin for Holden than Ford.

    Basically come 2010 Ford and Holden will be doing what Toyota has been doing for years.
    Simple as that.

  • Wheelnut

    Myke – you got to remember the Original VB commodore was an Austrlaian cesigned car built on a European platform.. Plus Holden is deeply involved in the design nad R&D of a number cars built on other GM platforms.

    As for having a car with a similar platorm but different look – its similar to that of the Camry and Aurion which are essentially the same car with a different body and sold as a sepperate model. thereby giving customers another alternative

  • LSD

    Richo…….this and all other blogs are renowned for their FORD bashing, which is strange because they have a range of much better cars than GM Holden do. So dont start your Holden whinging and whining when people bash Holden for a change. You sound like the Holden V8 Supercar boss whinging that the Fords were too fast for their cars ………boo friggity hoo !!

  • http://skyline The Salesman

    Adam (aka Mada)
    Gas = less boot space. Diesel is cheaper to refine, it is basically the spag on top of the furness. It should be cheaper. I would pay a premium for servicing, true. But i am paying for my preference in motoring and the convenience of space, towing and power. It won’t service every ones needs, but i believe you will find a majority vote in favor.

  • Wheelnut

    Captain Mainwairing – there is the posibility that GM could do exactly what Kodak did in Australia back in the 90s..

    Kodak were in trouble so the Australian Federal Gummint gave them $millions of dollares in fnancial assistance – but instead of using the money to restructure and develop further production in Australia… Kodak spent the money setting up new projects overseas and when the time cam they pulled out of Australia and the Gummint didn’t ask for or get any of their money back

    So GM could be getting ready to leave the USA – not that you an blame them particularly as the American Auto Workers Union [who are getting paid $45p/hr + penalties] etc are refusing to accept one of the key terms of the bailout and that is to accept pay cuts of upto $15p/hr.. as well as no more post-employment health benefits

    Both of which are conditions that The Bush [Snr] Administration forced the Big 3 US Car manufacturers to agree to inorder to end a dispute with the UAW.

    In times like this its better to take a cut and keep your job than to lose your job all together don’t you think?

  • Frontman

    Wheelnut, whilst I understand the thought behind Insigia, I believe that it would be too close in size to VF and as such create a cross over market canibilisation. Insignia is close to Mondeo sizing, and if you put a VE & Mondoe side by side the Mondeo is competitive in every area bar width. Much the same as Accord, 6, Camry (shudders) are all getting to that size.
    Like Ford is with the Focus, a small vehicle with a flexible assembly line to pump out several small volume variants on the one platform just makes more sense in such a limited marketplae that is getting used to having the luxury of too much choice.

  • Sam

    Salesmam, I think a Skoda Octavia would suit you to the ground.

  • Sam

    Whoops, typo. Salesman ^^

  • Wheelnut

    The US government will have to decide what would they rather do.. keep giving the big 3 money to help them out every couple of months or pay the 100os of [unskilled]workers in social security payments every week

    Both GM and Ford are both undertaking a restructuring program which will eventually benefit all Americans whereas if they were to close it would have a bigger negative impact on the US economy and simply extend the recession that they are currently experiencing

    And they’ll have to find someone else [with substantial oil deposits] to invade or declare war on

  • o

    I wish idiots would stop saying holden is building a korean [daewoo] car.The cruze was designed in USa and is being built there aswell as Korea like Bmw designed the X5 in germany but builds in in the USA or The golf being built in south africa and i am pretty sure that delta has AWD capacity also GM has really corm names

  • Bret

    Anti-spam word: Dodge – just like “O”, trying to dodge the truth. Mate it’s a daewoo engineered car – get over it.

  • Golfschwein

    Hi Adam, I’m still not convinced by LPG. I might be in 4 years time, but not now.

    The other day, I walked past a really lovely Ford Futura AUII wagon in family-friendly deep metallic blue. It was obviously well treated and treasured and sported a giant silver bullet in the cargo area, located hard against the back seat. So, if one assumes that a wagon was purchased in the first place for its load capacity and general practicality, that’s been put paid to by the LPG tank that cuts into load area and makes redundant the seat fold capability.

    This month’s WHOILS magazine compares the LPG-powered Ford G6, dual-fuel Holden Berlina and the Honda Accord V6, and both Aussie cars’ boot spaces are annihilated. The Holden’s becomes 325 litres, scarcely different to my Golf.

    People still query my purchase of a diesel-powered car, but I say its appeal goes beyond dollars and cents and, unlike the Futura wagon I saw, mine was done at the factory.

  • http://holden LloydS

    Salesman: Yes gas = less boot space, when the gas is tacked on as an afterthought. I’ve not seen a car yet that was designed to include properly integrated LPG. Europe isn’t interested. USA isn’t interested. Therefore Australian manufacturers aren’t interested. But Korea IS and next year I expect to see a compact car with properly integrated LPG (and lithium ion polymer batteries) from Hyundai. The rev-heads (and probably motoring writers) will pan it but I’ll be very surprised if the market ignores it.

  • http://skyline The Salesman

    Sam
    Skoda = FWD? Nice cars. If i went that way i would prefer somthing with a VW badge.
    Thanks for your imput :)

  • http://skyline The Salesman

    LloydS,
    Agreed. More people are moving towards alternative fuels, what we need to look at here is sustainability. We all know oil won’t last forever and the environment and environmentally conscious will eventually see these cars win favor. Don’t worry about the rev – heads, evolution will breed them out.

  • Wheelnut

    Frontman – yes the Insignia is almost the same size as the VE COmmodore. However the Camry is almost the same size as the Aurion isn’t it? and Toyota are doing well at building both cars here arent they?

    The article may say that the car which will be built at Elizabeth will be baed on the Astra’s [Delta] platform However; you got to bear in mind that a couple of months ago Ford said they were going to stop production of the I6 engine and look what happened.. they changed their mind

    So there is a chance that GM-H may decide to build the Insignia rather than the Astra which as I said earlier will be built in countries where it will be cheaper for Holden to import the Astra/Cruze from.

    GM should take advantage of Holdens RWD expertise and offer both a FWD and a RWD Insignia and maybe even a AWD Insignia [using the Haldex sysem under the new Saab 9-X]

  • sean h

    next months wheels headline ‘Torana’…

    merkins

  • Andrew M

    LloydS,
    never seen an E-Gas falcon then??

    they have a properly intergrated LPG system.
    the engine components are different, the tank goes where the petrol tank typiclly is, and YES, all the guages including fuel level and DTE readouts still work

    Richo,
    you claim nothing but praise for ford when the Focus was announced, but they got nothing but bad press for a month and the focus news was over shaddowed by the news of the I6 ending which were both released to the media at the same time.

    Wheelnut,
    If they call it a torana, they will sell them as a novelty.

    holden are aiming for a steady volume selling small car. they would want it to appeal to females, the elderly etc.
    Im not one to call anything or anyone a Bogan, but the torana name certainly speaks loudly of that name (Bogan).

    If they call it a Torana, they will only sell half of what they want to.
    in the small car market, people want European. it will have a european sort of name and styling

    The Salesman,
    if you want a sustainable fuel,
    then LPG is back on for you, yeah?
    Using it up beats burning it off or selling it to china for 2c per litre or what ever.
    LPG is proven as the only alternative fuel that will save your pocket.
    And dont worry about your power, an LPG falcon or commy will run away from any diesel

  • Andrew M

    Wheelnut,
    have you also forgotten that Holden has said the next gen commodore will be much smaller??
    that could put the 2 identical on specs.

    I doubt they would be silly enough to double dip on the one category

    you also claim the camry and aurion are almost the same car, but they are actually THE SAME CAR. that make a bit of a difference when its not 2 different designs.
    pretty much all they did was put a different front bar on the V6 Camry and call it a Aurion.
    even you know that because you shout it all the time

  • SamR

    All the people here asking for big cars, get real.

    The price of fuel will go up again one day and when it does the car makers will be in deeper trouble.

    GM just build a small fuel efficient car and phase out the Commodore ASAP. The people that want a large car can buy an import.

  • Marcus

    There is no way they should call this car a Torana !

    Unless it is RWD, mid-size, and fit a 6 or 8 cylinder under the bonnet, then it is not in the same spirit of the original, they should save Torana name for later.

    What Holden is building is a 4 cylinder FWD small car.
    The Gemini was orginally RWD then swapped to FWD in 1985, so the Gemini name would suit it perfectly.

    Holden has brought back the Statesman and Monaro names in recent times, with talk of a new generation Torana, then this new small car would obviously be the perfect new generation Gemini.

  • Wheelnut

    Marcus – The Epsillon p[latform on which the Insignia is buitl car take both FWD and RWD set ups and can also fit both 4 and 6 cyl engines..

    I doubt a V8 would fit thoguh I don't think Holden would want a V8 in a small/meduum sized car as that would take sales away from the SS let alone HSVs..

    Mind you these days youd don't really need a V8 when a properly engineered turbocharged or supercharged 6 can produce as much power as an V8 - FPV F6 is a good example.

    If Holden do build the Insignia/Torana they could fit the Direct Injection Twin Turbo Optimised [DITTO] V6 which cam produce 300Kw+
    Then there’s GMs contract with BMW to supply BMW engines so even the old Inline 6 from the iconic M3 is an option.. I mean HSV are testing a couple of BMWs diesels ATM

    Anyhow – it looks like it will be the new Astra… an AWD astra would be nice

  • Andrew M

    SamR,
    the idea of producing a small car and still keeping the large car here, is that the small car will pick up the slack, and both the large and small car will keep each other viable.

    if you are into DVT, sure, buy a small car

  • Andrew M

    Wheelnut,
    you never fall short of filling the wish list do you??

    Merry christmas….

  • JasonP

    LloydS
    Didn’t Hy And Dry (Hyundai) say that their LPG Hybrid can’t/won’t be built in right hand drive?

    So much for being a world car……..

    Wouldn’t you think it would be available in both left & righ hand drive?

  • zahmad

    Hard work for Holden on choosing what to make, and how to style it without loosing money!…

  • Wheelnut

    Andrew – I know the Commodore is expected to be more compact However; Holden have said that the Commodore will remain RWD.. so to have a similar sized FWD car gives customers [those who have outgrown thier corollas etc]another option.

    It’s what Toyota should have done with the Aurion then maybe TRD would’ve been more popular with car enthusiasts.

    The Corolla and Yaris are a similar size with similar specs and both of em and Toyota are doing okay aren’t they?

  • Wheelnut

    Andrew – I’m just listing a number of possibilities etc.. all we know for sure is that its going to be a small/medium sized car thats FWD

    Merry Christmas to you too mate from Bavarian Missile and I

  • AAA

    Petrol was $1.60. Now it’s 96c. Shouldn’t they be dropping the idea?

  • Wheelnut

    SamR – GM has made Holden the Research and Development Centre for RWD rojects. Infact GM has said that as part of their restructuring process they will be Holden on to Holden..

    Therefore; why would Holden get rid of the car on which its reputation for building affordable reliable RWD cars is based on?

    As Andrew said building a small/medium and a medium/large sized car here; with slight variations – be it 4 6 or 8 cylinders.. FWD or RWD covers all bases and gives cutomers more options keeping both cars viable and the factory open.

    Even though the small/medium sized car market is booming ATM there will always be those who want/need a large sized car – everyone has different “requirements” in a car

    Yet most of the Latrge cars that are in the same price range as the Commodore are FWD – and as teh TRD aurion has shown that’s not the kind of car car enthusiasts are after

  • Tom

    I love to see Holden AUs slowly moving towards independence.

  • Wheelnut

    Zahmad – even though Holden have recorded yet another Loss.. the loss isn’t as big as those recorded by their US based COonterparts such as Buick etc. and over the last couple of years the losses Holden have made have gradually declined .. so eventhough its a negative in a way Holden are making money as they’re getting closer to break even.

    And holden have almost recovered the $1bn spent on the R&D of the VE Project – 1/2 of which was spent on the new “Gernie Style” assembly line.

  • Wheelnut

    Zahmad – even though Holden have recorded yet another Loss.. the loss isn’t as big as those recorded by their US based COonterparts such as Buick etc. and over the last couple of years the losses Holden have made have gradually declined .. so even though its a negative in a way Holden are making money as they’re getting closer to break even.

    [How's that for a bit of Toyota like spin eh?]

    BTW: Holden have almost recovered the $1bn spent on the R&D of the VE Project – 1/2 of which was spent on the new “Gernie Style” assembly line.

  • Andrew M

    Wheelnut,
    actually all we are told is that it is a SMALL car.

    AAA,
    now that petrol is only 96 cents per litre, holden ought to be making hay.
    that means those that have a 99c fuel cost agreement with holden are paying holden 4 cpl.
    surely that would add up and perhaps another reason for venturing with a new project aside from the government grant.
    ha ha ha ha ha (couldnt help myself)

  • Frenchie

    Only problem I see with LPG is you can’t use a petrol can if you run out of fuel(on dedicated LPG).

  • Wheelnut

    Andrew M – the article says : The new small, front-wheel-drive, four-cylinder vehicle to be built by GM Holden at Elizabeth will be based on General Motors’ global Delta small car architecture.. which indicates its more likelty going to be the next generation Astra.

    Although a RWD Small car similar to the BMW 1 series would be cool.. it uses a 6 [I know yet another possibility].
    I really like the twin turbo 135i

  • http://holden LloydS

    Andrew M & Frenchie,
    Yes, I need to have a good look at an E-Gas Falcon. I share Frenchie’s concern about how you get home if you run out of LPG with a dedicated LPG setup. Presumably an LPG hybrid could limp home on battery.

    Jason P, I didn’t hear about “no right hand drive” for the Hyundai LPG hybrid. Very disappointing if that’s the way it goes.

    Merry Christmas, safe driving.

  • Phil

    RE. running out of LPG: Not sure about everyone else, but I haven’t run out of fuel since I’ve owned a car with a fuel light… just a thought.

  • ZF

    Once GM fold up next March Holden will follow…….

  • Andrew M

    LloydS,
    Phil has got it.
    if the amount of lights and sounding warnings the falcon issues on every start up once under 80ks to go, and when it diminishes every 20ks after that doesnt click something in your head to say “FILL IT UP”, then perhaps you shouldnt be driving.
    running out of fuel is a rarity nowdays as Phil says.

    BUT,
    I you do run out, who do you call??? ROAD SERVICE…..
    whether it be RACQ or whoever, they will sort you out. you just have to tell them you have a LPG only car, and they will send a different tuck

    I am also surprised that noone has developed emergency LPG top up packs.
    servos could even them like swap and go bottles.
    surely its not that hard to make a pressurised single or multiple use can to throw 5 litres of roadside fuel into it.
    perhaps if the demand increased, they might become available.

    i would still prefer dedicated LPG over dual(compromised) fuel

  • Frenchie

    Phil:
    You be amazed what people ignore when it’s not their car. Referring to LPG running out of fuel ie:Fleet cars.

  • Wheelnut

    ZF – as I have said before; its possible that GM could in fact use the money that the US Govt has given them in financial assistance to prepare facilities overseas and eventually pull out of the USA all together.. Just as Kodak did in Australia back in the 80/90s.

    Which is understandable given that American Auto Workers get $45p/hr and are refusing to take pay cuts which will go some way towards them keeping their jobs.. instead of losing em.

    If/when GM does leave the USA Holden will be safe as Holden is heavily involve in the research and development in a number of GM projects.

    Infact GM have released a statement outlining the steps involved as part of their restructuring process and what the result will be [as they were required to do so to get the $] and in the end it says GM will be reduced to Chevrolet Cadillac Opel and Holden.

  • Marcus

    So Holden’s future looks sound, and the small car program has secured this well into the future.
    Can’t say the same for Ford’s local future though, looks pretty shaking indeed, especially when the Falcon is killed off and replaced with a fully imported FWD re-badged American model sometime around 2013

  • Andrew M

    Marcus,
    why dont you change your name to “Nob”.
    That way we wont have to read your comments to find out that you are one

  • Wheelnut

    Quote [Andrew M] Marcus, why dont you change your name to “Nob”.
    That way we wont have to read your comments to find out that you are one

    Here here Andrew.

    He obivously hasn’t heard that the Focus wil be built here within 2 years.. that the Future if the I6 is assured for at least the next 5 years.. and that Ford have said the Falcon will remain RWD whilst it continues to wear the Falcon badge.

    I mean why did they send a Falcon to D-troit if it wasn’t for evaluation assesment or appraisal etc?
    For Australia is the R&D centre for a number of Fords Global RWD projects just as Holden is within GM

  • SamR

    Yay! another Camira!!

  • Elitist

    I just saw this cars sketches on the news and they copied the new Lancia Delta front.
    Holden loosers.

  • zahmad

    Delta II platform being used by “2010 Astra”….*hint**hint*

  • Cupid Stunt

    Crikey – you big engine nuts will never give over will you. Take the blinkers off for a minute and you realise why Toyota are wiping the floor with Holden (and Ford). Folk want cheaper more economical cars, Toyota supply them, Holden don’t seem to, Thats their problem, they need a decent platform for a medium size car and the Insignia is just the machine. The 2.0 litre Turbo (petrol) will give the 3.6 litre Commie a run for its money and uses 10% less fuel. The diesel versions are better still with a twin turbo 2.0 litre in the offing with 142KW.
    Smaller cars with smaller engines thats what family folk want. Most of those bods reading this website are heavily into cars ans don’t seem to be able to cope with considering what the market actually wants by ranting on about big V6′s and 8′s. Get real

  • Marcus

    Hahahahahahaha, some of you one eyed Ford fanzies need to take your blinkers off, and realize Ford is the next to close down in this country.
    The Focus will not save them, and the Falcon is on life support in a coma (somebody switch it off for God’s sake!)

    Holden is building an all-aussie designed small car from the ground up, unlike Ford’s imported Focus transplant
    Hahahahahahaha

  • SamR

    Nah I think an Astra or Focus with lots of local development such as.

    Good long lasting brakes
    Strong A/Con
    Beefed up suspension
    UV stabilised plastics and interiors.

    Everything Euro cars SUCK at

    Could be a goer, think small Commodore and Falcon.

  • daniel

    Great! Another sh!tbox on the roads…

  • Cupid Stunt

    WOrds of wisdom from Daniel. How profound.

  • Mikez

    Opels the only ones worth buying

  • daniel

    buy a ford!

  • ZF

    Marcus…are you serious? Its not an aussie new car from the ground up at all you idiot. Its more of a Daewoo design then Holden.

  • ZF

    Marcus……..Holden would be next to close down in this country if anyone……GM will close after the US gov handout runs out in March. FORD do not have a 60 BILLION DEBT, GM DO!! Anyway go drive an FG then drive a VE and if you know anything about cars, not just Holdenwoo’s, then you will know how far behind Holden are in their entire range.

  • nix

    GM will be going chapter 11 guys, there is no doubt about it, say 6 months I reckon, that’s not all bad btw, but this new vehicle is a long way away, as is the focus..as to size, its gotta be small, if its a mondeo sized vehicle(mid, lol) its competing against the VE, so whats the point, also the Mondeo sells only okay, so again whats the point. Its an astra or equivalent, but then, I don’t think it will happen at all tbh.

    Be really interesting to see who ends up paying for this, GM or OZ taxpayers.

  • Wheelnut

    Marcus it’s not going to be an all new Aussie designed car from the ground up.
    If you read the article you will find that it will be built on the Delta platform which is what the Astra is already built on.

    Therefore; it will be similar to the Original VB Commodore which used the same platform as the Opel Rekord but had an Aussie designed body.

    The only Holden to be an All New 100% Aussie designed car from the ground up is the VE Commodore

  • Bret

    The “assistance” from the Govt isn’t just for the small car either, it’s also for other “green” initiatives eg. E85, LPG, CNG, hybrid etc.

    Wheelnut, isn’t a version of the V6 used by SAAB already E85? That would make the E85 Commodre seem an easy thing. However, is E85 even available domestically in Australia?

  • Wheelnut

    As for who will be the next to go.. If Toyotas problems continue it could well be that they decide to pull out.

    Particularly when you consider that the FWD Camry/Aurion is nothing more than a slightly modified version of the cars built in both Japan and the USA.
    So Toyota could close down one [maybe 2] of the plants making the Camry/Aurion and transfer production to the 3rd
    [Its one of the things hurting Ford and GM in the USA]

    Whereas the Commodore and Falcon are unique not only to Australia but within GM & Ford. They have more experience building RWD cars which their parent companies are taking advantage of in relation to the R&D of future projects.

    The Holden and Ford assembly lines are more flexible as they can build Sedans, Utes, Wagons, Cross-Overs, Limos, and [Coupes] whereas Toyo-Oz are just building Sedans.

    As for Toyotas plans to build an Aussie Hybrid.. again with their record losses etc they could decide to make them closer to the factory where the Prius or Hybrid Lexus is made.

  • Frenchie

    What car company do you support Nix? Do you support manufacturering in Australia? Hope your attitude is not to lie down and do nothing!

  • http://skyline The Salesman

    Crazy left feild idea. Why not build brand new versions of old Holdens on order. I would love to buy a brand new HQ. With all the latest saftey and comferts of course. How much would you pay for that?

  • Wheelnut

    Bret The V6 Saab 9-5 Biopower can run on 85% Ethanol. I suspect its the same engine if not the same technology Holdne will use in thr upcoming VF commodre which is reportedly going to be able to run on Ethanol too.

    However; Saab is about to release a range of new cars with Bio-power. The new engines have been optimised to run on 100% ethanol. Combined with a turbocharger the 2.0 litre engine can produce 300hp and 0-100k/mh in just over 6 seconds.

    Both Saab Engines are built by the Holden Engine Company [They also build engines for Alfa Romeo] but at this stage E85 isn’t that widely available from the major petrol stations across Australia.

  • Wheelnut

    Salesman – To give you an idea as to how much it would cost for a custom built one off retro-tech Holden – it cost Holden approx $400k to build the [International Hot Rod of the Year] Efijy Concept.. a Sheik from the Middle East offered chief designer Richard Fellazzo close to $2.5m for it – and he knocked him back..

  • Wheelnut

    I’d probably go for either an FX FC EH EK [Sedan Ute or Delivery].. or even a Torana A9X

  • http://skyline The Salesman

    Wheelnut.
    It is not such a bad idea. I am not rich enough to do it but then again if i was and i had this option i would buy an EH before i bought a 427 HSV. Call me crazy but i am not the only old Holden fan. (or Ford for that matter)

  • Wheelnut

    Toyota have recorded a record loss. Yes its the first loss in recent years but compared to previous losses they’ve had since they released financial reports its a record loss

    And if they contuinue to be also rans in F1 and the large 4×4 market continuse to shrink the losses could continue. Toyotas reliability etc isn’t what it used to be and it appears people are gradually starting to realise that.

    I replied to you in relation to the TuRD Superchargers on the TRD Blog.. A Prototype I saw at the motorshow had an Eaton Supercharger [prior to its official release] Yet the ones I saw after the fire had a Sprintex charger.
    Because Toyota were looking at both of them [with help from Harrop Engineering] as they fit under the hood.

  • Wheelnut

    My point was that the Commodore and Falcon are both cars that aren’t built at any other GM or Ford factory anywhere else in the world.
    Therefore; I don’t think that their parent companies will spend the millions of dollars required to set up new robots new assembly lines to build the Commodore or Falcon in either Europe Japan or the USA.

    Whereas the Camry Aurion made at Altona is virtually identical to the ones built in Japan and the USA or wherever. Therefore; Toyota could pull out of Australia and transfer production of the Camry/Aurion to one of the other plants and it wouldn’t cost them anything.

    And now that Ford and Holden have plans to build smaller cars here [and Toyota isn't] it covers all bases and helps keep the plant more viable – particularly if the sale of large family sized cars continues to fall.

  • Wheelnut

    You definitely have a problem McKay [AKA Dingo]

    Whereas most people on here; myself included dont’t like seeing people lose their jobs… You seem to take great pleasure in it.

    Whereas and we don’t want to see any of the local car manufacturers close etc.. it appears that you can’t wait for it to happen

    You just don;t get it do you?

    If one of [or all of] them goes that will affect a number of other industries such as retail; construction; finance; tourism etc.

    which will mean even more people out of work. which will mean amore people reliant on centrelink. which will mean the government will have to not only increase centrelinks budget but also increase taxes on thise still fortunate enough to have a job inorder cover it. which will mean if you still have a job you will be less likely be able to afford a new imported car. because car compamies will realise if we want to buy a car; we have no other option but to pay the price they say and will probably incrase the price inorder to increase profits.

  • David W

    Wheelnut, regardless of whether or not Commodore and Falcon are unique to Australia. They haven’t returned a profit in years, therefore the smart thing to do, and the most likely thing that will happen is they will be killed off! After all, the U.S Bailout is aimed at saving U.S jobs! Large RWD cars without a prestige badge, just aren’t profitable anymore!! Holden will be lucky to to locally produce small FWD platforms!

  • David W

    “Whereas and we don’t want to see any of the local car manufacturers close etc..”

    Looking at the axing of TRD australia article, I don’t believe that to be true!!!

  • David W

    Also, what is that chev depicted on the last photo?
    I got to admit it looks really good!

  • Golfschwein

    Goodness. First, TRD goes down the tube (haha, it can wave hello to the Fairlane on the way down) and now this!

    I definitely feel a pink hankie moment coming on. Damned funny stuff, for those in the know.

  • http://skyline The Salesman

    McKay,
    I was managing a Toyota dealership when the Aurion was released. I can tell you there are 3000 points of difference between the Camry and the Aurion. Cabin measurement are not the same. During the Toyota road show at Mt Cotton’s driver training centre we meet with some Government officials who were there to drive the car as well. One mentioned to me (while driving at some ridicules speed around the track) that the security dividers that separate drivers and passengers currently used in Holden and Ford do fit perfectly into the Aurion.

  • JEYKL & HYDE

    dingo,

    the salesman is right.tough being right about eyerything…

  • Bret

    Salesman, I think that you are being one here!
    An Aurion IS a V6 Camry.
    Any variation in interior dimensions is only due to trim differences. All of the sheetmetal that defines the basic body structure is exactly the same.
    You can take a Camry, bolt on Aurion front/rear bumpers & lights, and bonnet/boot and externally you have an Aurion.

    BTW the bootlid change actually robs the Aurion of boot space by some 30L over camry.

  • PoisonEagle

    The Camira is back!

  • ZF

    Torana…….if Holden call this car a Torana every mocasin wearing super bogan with a cigarette packet in his t-shirt sleeve will buy one !! lol lol lol Camira brings back memories of Holdens small car expertise ……lol what a shitbox that was…….

  • Wheelnut

    Yeah but the Camira won Wheels Car Of The Year didn’t it? so everythinge elso on the market at the time must have been worse – mustn’t they?

  • http://skyline The Salesman

    Bret,
    Maybe i have been doing this to long and it translates into everything i do?(Even my kids negotiate bed time with me, so it might be rubbing off on them to) I remember David Butler being asked the question and he was very specific on the differences. From memory he said, and I quote.
    “Toyota want to be very clear, the Aurion is not a Camry but a whole new venture into the V6 market”
    If you have evidence to suggest other wise i would be keen to see it, i would hate to be misinformed and giving out the wrong information.
    I am not saying you are wrong, there are some similarities. I was at the release during Toyotas nation wide road show; I even got a hat and a pen, i doubt they would mislead us.

  • http://skyline The Salesman

    I think this will work for Holden, i would like to believe that Australians are still a patriotic bunch who like to see the Aussie battler have a win. They should definitely call it the Gemini. Also the entry level needs to have a sharp price point, and be well specified. Don’t muck about with this one Holden, know your market and blow it out of the water. Show Australians you will support us as much as we have supported you over the last 60 years.

  • Neo

    my mother has a SJ camira and the this is a hunk of junk. driving the thing feels like a punishment. and wheels mag will promote anything with a holden badge.

  • http://skyline The Salesman

    Neo,
    The Camira was ground braking in its day, the Mitsubishi Magna won car of the year four times in a row, even with the in built timing chain rattle. Of course if your mum still has one and it has not been maintained it would be, as you say, a hunk of junk. Why does your mum make you drive it, have you been naughty? :)

  • Andrew M

    T.S.
    i recently had a good look at a camry and Aurion side by side.
    they share almost all external panels.
    the boot is different, but only slightly, the front looks quite different, but if you blank out the lights and front bar etc, they has the exact same architecture as each other.
    check out the sill lines and front and rear guards. dead ringers…

  • Wheelnut

    Salesman – Toyota would mislead us they do it all the time. I remember when they said that the TRD Aurion is the First Australian made Car with a supercharged V6 engine… Yet The Holden CV-6 Monaro came out 4 years earlier which had an Eaton Supercharger [ and no engine fires ]

    Funny thing is it turned out to be as popular as the TRD.

  • http://carAdvice The Salesman

    It was the first FWD supercharged V6 maybe?
    If i am wrong then i stand corrected. I am only regurgitating the information i was given. I still have connections in the Toyota camp so i will do some investigating.

  • G Bush

    what happens if GM dont meet the bush/obama contracts with their grant monies by march/april next year, do holden still build any cars

  • Wheelnut

    They’ll most liely give them more money – because they got to decde is it better to give the big 3 remporary financial assistance .. help them through the restructuring process and keep emn going thereby keeping millions of [unskilled] American in a job OR let GM and Ford go under and have to pay out millions in social security paymetns to the ex-workers each week?

    I think that GM and Ford will pull-out of the US and relocate operations to either Europe or even Australia.. given the American Auto Workers who are getting paid upto $45p/hr +penalties etc have refused to accept a pay cut of up to $15p/hr and keep their jobs. So they could actually be using the money on getting ready for the move

    it’s a similar case to what Kodak did in Australia in the late 80s: the Australian Gummint gave Kodak $m’s for future development – 6 months later they were gone

  • Wheelnut

    Either way Holden will be here for quite some time as its quite obvious Holden means alot to GM and plays a vital role in their future –

    I mean GM gave Holden money to build a completely all new all Australian designed large RWD car instead of making them take a modified Pontiac Sigma at a time when GM were in a similar financial situation to what they are now.

    And now they have approved Holden to tool up and build a new small-medium sized car. They can see Holdens Potential and they are taking advantage of their RWD exoerience ans well as their engineering ability and ingenuity etc

  • Neo

    The Salesman

    i lernt to drive in the Camira i dont drive it anymore. magna is leaps ahead of the Camira.

  • Bret

    Salesman,
    Nope Toyota spin. Of course they told you it was a different car, they told everybody. (With reportedly the most expensive single marketing campaign in Aus motoring history).
    It’s the same body structure – only differences are
    - the engine/trans (of course)
    - interior trim
    - Bonnet & Boot lid (the only sheetmetal difference)
    - Front/rear bumpers
    - Front/rear light clusters.
    - The NAME

    Toyota have marketed the V6 Camry as an Aurion – OFFICIALLY it is a different car – reallity is it isn’t.

    Aurion – (only) the NAME has changed.

  • Andrew M

    Bret,
    even the interior structure is the same. when you mention interior trim, it is very much only the actual trim.

    a change of colours and cloth type, thats pretty much it.

    ford and holden change just as much when you step from a pov pack model to an XR6 or SV6 etc

  • ZF

    Wheelnut……Ford are not asking for money and are not getting any money from the US Gov…..only GM and Chrysler. Get your facts straight. They have only asked for a line of credit if (well it will be when) GM and hrysler go bust. As this could leave them without some suppliers and interupt their business.

  • max

    Why are they getting “green funding” to build a small 4 cylinder car? Sorry, I don’t get it, it might be a really fuel efficient 4 cylinder motor, but I still don’t get it.

    Ethanol? Seriously thats a joke. LPG, in a small 4 cylinder car..okay, will that be optional, ie, that will be another 2000 thx? Cylinder deactivation? in a small 4 cylinder car..ok..lol. sorry guys, but this is a joke, and guess who is going to end up paying for all of this..

  • Spitfire

    The mug taxpayer as usual Max.

  • JEYKL & HYDE

    in latest news,

    the viva got dropped today,rest in peace pig…

    looks like cruze to take it’s place

  • Andrew M

    Jeckyl,
    is that so???

    well perhaps a story should be run on that rather than the many off topic horror road toll stories

  • Bret

    Just to put to bed any ideas that anyone had about this being unique to or designed in Aus:

    GM design executive Simcoe says the sedan and hatch versions of Holden’s small car will be near-identical – both inside and out – to the Chevrolet Cruze versions rather than custom-designed for Australia

    However, as part of the global lineup GMH are doing the hatch styling (and were well before GMH dipped into the Govt money bucket for local production).

  • Wheelnut

    If the new small car ended up looking like the sketch [above] I would be very interested [it looks like a retro-tech led sled hot rod] However; I don’t think it will.. as given the current climate I suspect that the Accountants will have more of a say in this project

    Although the Cruze doesn’t look that bad either except from the front end.. maybe if it was more like the TT-36 Concept

  • franz chong

    Here is one that hasn’t been done before.How about calling it Holden Kadett.After all the Opel Original back in 1973 was the basis of the Early Geminis before Europe went front drive for it’s replacement