HSV ponders diesel and LPG
December 18, 2008 by David Twomey
It may seem to go against the grain of what a performance car company is about but Holden Special Vehicles is almost certain to be selling cars using LPG and even diesel fuel in the near future.
- David Twomey
British-born Managing Director of HSV, Phil Harding, told CarAdvice at a media briefing in Melbourne yesterday that the company was well advanced in looking at diesel, LPG and ethanol as alternative power sources for its performance cars.
As if that wasn’t enough he made it clear that on the question of diesel power HSV was evaluating two different engines, one from General Motors and the second from an unnamed European car maker.
Mr Harding believes that if HSV is to become a serious exporter then it needs a diesel engine option to sell cars, particularly in Europe, in viable numbers.
The first engine is no secret and the company has been evaluating the 2.9-litre, VM Motori-sourced, V6 diesel that GM will offer in European versions of the Cadillac CTS.
Mr Harding was much more coy about the source of the other engine, preferring to leave it as ‘a European brand’ but it is widely known that HSV has been running a VE Commodore mule with a BMW turbo-diesel inline six cinder engine for some time.
He told CarAdvice that the project had the full support of parent GM-Holden and added that Fishermans Bend had no problem with him choosing a non-GM engine if that was the best solution.
Mr Harding said; “There are reasons why we’re investigating different alternative fuel strategies.
“Diesel started because when we launched VXR8 in the UK, I got a lot of questions about where was the diesel version. Certainly the cars that you’re ‘battling’ with on the roads are diesels.”
“Diesel in Europe is a little more advanced than here. You don’t fill the car up round the corner at the truck pump. You don’t end up smelling of diesel when you get back in the car.
“You look around at what Mercedes and BMW do and they come out with some great product at the top-end of the diesel market.
“So if HSV is going to do a diesel it will do a decent diesel that can replicate the expectation of what a performance car would be like.
“With that in mind we’ve had a look at two diesel engines. The business case is not approved yet, it’s still ongoing, but we think that it is crucial if we’re ever going to export in larger numbers.”
Mr Harding said that while a decision on the diesel engine could be made in the not too distant future it would take some time to engineer into the Commodore based vehicles.
However, he said the option of using LPG fuel was also seriously under consideration and this could come on stream as soon as late 2009.
Joel Stoddart, HSV engineering guru, explained that with LPG the company y was looking at a liquid port injection system.
“It’s a dual fuel system that we feel replicates the performance of petrol in the 6.2-litre V8 engine,” he said.
Mr Stoddart said that the system was duel fuel because at full throttle the engine management system would switch the engine to straight petrol operation, before cutting back to LPG as the engine load reduced.
Mr Harding said there was no approval yet for the business case on LPG and he was watching to see where the general automotive market was going with LPG.
He said HSV would be very careful to avoid the ‘taxi’ stigma attached to LPG and would probably not market LPG as a distinct model but would rather offer the option on its range of vehicles.
He said that the company had done ‘payback’ analysis on the cost of the LPG option when petrol was at $1.50 a litre and LPG was about $0.60 and on this basis the cost was returned in 12 months.
Mr Harding emphasised that a major reason driving HSV to examine all alternative fuel options, and he said E85 was also under consideration but this currently suffered from supply issues, was to ensure that its customers were not looked on in a negative way.
“We as a company should be responsible in ensuring that fuel supplies are used in a responsible way,” he said.
“We also want to ensure that our customers are not looked on in a negative way, we want them to be looked on well by their peer group.”
He added that HSV did not want its customers to be considered socially irresponsible by their purchase of the company’s products.
“I also don’t think anyone will turn away from the chance to run their car at a cheaper price,” he added.
Print it: 
I guess every company these days has to pull their revenue from sources quite forcefully if they want to survive.
To be honest, I`m getting sick and tired of everyone banting on about the “ecconomic crisis” but I guess that`s unavoidable.
Quote “It seems to go against the grain of what a performance car company is about but Holden Special Vehicles is almost certain to be selling cars using LPG and even diesel fuel in the near future.” And what’s wrong with that? At the end of the day, diesel is just another sort of fuel. If it had been used more in the beginning, we wouldn’t be using petrol so much so what’s the difference? Diesel is not superior in every way, but neither is petrol and if BMW have proven anything, it’s that if you wack enough turbo/super chargers on a diesel you will get wonderful performance and a great engine. And the whole point of a Commodore/Falcon is that it has plenty of power to cross Australia, no? Well, as everybody knows, diesel gives much, much more power over a same sized petrol equivalent.
And of course, most importantly, people will be able to own a HSV car without looking like a massive wanker if they pick a diesel. I don’t see the downside. Especially as they will keep making petrol HSVs for a long time yet. I now have a little more respect for the brand (not the car) and before, I had none.
Agreed Alex – Theres many whowould slag the performance of diesels on the ground of having driven a 1883 toyota hilux diesel. There is far general day to day driveability with a modern diesel.
Go look at BMW’s UK website where you can see nearly all of the diesels outperform there equivilent sized petrol counterparts. Indeed Seat (you know, the spanish motors) were competatively running a diesel against petrol cars reaching regular podium posistions.
Check out the comparos with petrol v’s diesel on fifth gear and TG and you’ll see the diesel has it, and that was comparing a Skoda wobbly Fabia with a Mini Cooper that handles impeccably well.
Diesel is not the way to go for Australian car manufacturers in my opinion. Australia has an abundance of natural gas, and makes the most sense to introduce LPG more widely across the vehicle range. In terms of diesels, their performance is getting closer and in some models bettering the petrol variant in day to day performance. However, the cost will always be the elephant in the room and given LPG costs so much less than both diesel and petrol, it makes sense to adopt either LPG or CNG into more and more Australian produced cars.
All this commentary is so boring.
HSV + ((?)FPV) + ((Diesel )(?2)) = V8 supercars = possible prosperity
or
HSV + ((?)FPV) + ((LPG )(?2)) + (complication4) = V8 supercars + a turban = confusion with direction.
or
HSV + ((?)FPV) + ((E85)(?6)) = V8 supercars = political red tape
Just do it or ponder your navel instead.
The problem if, If a large percentage of Aussie cars start running on LPG, the govenrment will just tax the crap out of it makeing it just as expencive as petrol.
The federal government are introducing a tax on LPG. I think it starts in 2011 at 2.5c/litre. Still it will be relatively cheaper than petrol/diesel and more importantly the carbon emmission from LPG is very low.
I’m interested if HSV are going to use the LPGLI system as I have read that it delivers a higher octane, more power and consumming the same amount of fuel as petrol.
With australian attitudes, LPG and Diesel wont mix with performance cars. I think they will sell so few it want be worth doing.
Until people are educated on the advances/advantages of LPG
they will sell only small amounts.
It would become a bit of a mouthful then if you had a:
HSV-VF-LPG-TDI-V8-GTS-ACM-MRC-IRS-ABS-SRS-ESP-TC-CC-DSG-
Bogans will rebel at this blasphemous talk…pfft!!
since when did HSV export cars??
I thought only holden did????
I think they should be walking with the alternative fuels under the Holden badge first, before running with it under HSV.
the idea is to have an established product under the holden name, and then HSV does their version with it.
it seems to me like HSV and Holden want to be their own comapnies running in each of their own directions
Andrew M: The Vauxhall VX-R8 is a rebadged Clubsport R8 [In England].
Yeah but ina way it makes sense if HSV do a feasability study before Holden commit to importing a car like the Opel. because if HSV believe that an HSV enhanced version would be a popular addition to their range; it makes it easier for Holden to put forward a case to import yhem to GM.. as sales numbers would be greater and codt per unit would be lower.
Holden and HSV are working closer together. I mean the fact that a lot of the work for HSV is done on the production line at Elizabeth – the plasma cutter to cut out the holes for and fitting of the distinctive “Tic-Tac” LED taillights for example
Big_End_Bearing Says:
“Diesel is not the way to go for Australian car manufacturers in my opinion. Australia has an abundance of natural gas….”
Manufacturers produce petrol, diesel and LPG variants depending on where they want to compete and have market demand. Diesel is most definately the way to go if you regularly travel long distances (higher energy density per L). LPG is only good if you live in a city or large town and don’t need to do big distances (supply or lack-thereof). Hence petrol seems to be the happy medium.
As for HSV, the ONLY way I’d EVER consider one would be on the basis of a performance diesel.(Still waiting to see the price of a BMW 330D!) Imagine HSV could put in a tough V8 TDI. Massive torque and good mileage.
Sure its unlikely they’ll be as quick as the petrol in any HSV incarnation, but if we’ve learn’t anything from Audi – they can be insanely fast AND relatively frugal.
wheelnut,
what balance sheet does it appear on?? HSV’s or Holdens??
the R8 equivalents in the middle east dont get the HSV treatment though do they??
I was wondering why it took so long to look for an alternative. When petrol hit $1.50 + I had my VTII S converted to duel fuel. After my $2000 cash back it cost me $400 out of my pocket. I can assure people that supply in the country is not a problem and you have still got petrol anyway. On a trip going North from Sydney I switched to gas at the start of the M3 and used cruise control in fifth gear most of the trip only coming out for construction zones and some towns. At exactly 550 km on the trip meter I switched back to petrol to get an accurate fuel consumption. It took 58.27 litres of gas. If you want to take the trouble to compare, on a trip before the conversion I travelled 714 km and it took 64 litres of petrol. In city driving the difference is similar percentage wise. but both figures are about 30% more fuel. My car has a 3.8 V6 with a 5 speed manual tranny.