Well, well, well!

Maybe they should stop wasting billions in Formula 1, & return to profit.
They’ve had zero results bar a couple of lucky podiums.

And why are they in Nascar? I don’t recall any Camry running rear drive, with a pushrod V8 up front.

At least their motorsport in Oz is minimal, except for a low key rally effort.

You’d think at the premium prices Toyota charges in Australia, ( and I assume everywhere else), that they’d be able to get a decent return.

Not to bash them further, but they’ve gone from record profits to a nearly $2 billion loss in a very short amount of time.

Still, nobody benefits if a major car maker goes under, or starts to lose big chunks of money.

Great time to buy a car; even whitegoods with wheels.

“Great time to buy a car; even whitegoods with wheels.
”

Thats exactly what I would have thought! My mate went to buy either an i30 or a lancer last week, and all the dealerships he rang claimed that prices were only going to increase next year!! I told my mate to keep haggling for a better price but he ended up not even getting free on-road costs (I thought that would have been a given if you held out long enough…) He ended up going for an i30 SX, getting it for 21,700.

21,700 is only 200 shoy of a new corolla….or a nicely specced Jazz for that.

Damn… would have been a good time for them to go away

^^^^^^^What series?

Toyota has been profitable every year since 1999 and the past 7 years have recorded profits between $16.5 & $19.0 billion.

Last reporting period they reported $16.97 billion which is more in one season then what GM, Ford and Chrysler will recieve in bailout dollars combined.

As for why is Toyota in F1, i guess because they can and in NASCAR they had a blinder of a season in 2008 winning 2 of the 3 Manufactuer Titles.

I guess considering the fact that the BIG 3 have been mega unprofitable for several years with GM reporting a $40 billion loss in a single quarter alone last year i ask why are they still competing in NASCAR when they should save the money and then atleast be able to beg the tax-payer for that much less instead.

Come to think of it, Holden and Ford haven’t returned a profit in Australia for quite some time either so why bother investing in the Australian V8 Supercars when they should save the extra dime until they are profitable again … if they are ever profitable again.

The differance between Toyota and the American BIG 3 is clear, Toyota has it’s own money to spend on what they like while GM, Ford and Crysler need everybody elses money to stay afloat which means luxuries like any form of motorsport should be canned because soon it’s not going to be thier money they are blowing in the wind but that of the tax payer, A BIG DIFFERANCE

Toyota will eventually scale down production as the Camry\Aurion piece of crap is selling much…..only a matter of time.

The Camry / Aurion duo sell in enough numbers that it is positioned between the Falcon and Commodore which is a good combined effort.

However, Toyota has an export agreement that is greater in numbers then Holden while Ford Aust. basically doesn’t have one at all.

And then there is the leaner operations to consider.

Toyota Aust. employs about 4700 people to build between 145 000 – 150 000 vehicles per year while Ford employs about 5 500 to build a little more then half those numbers while Holden employs 6000+ to build about the same as Toyota.

Finally, Toyota benefits from cost reductions associated with building a global platform (Camry) while Holden and Ford get slogged with the added overheads associated with indigenous vehicles.

Toyota Australia is in better shape, and leaner which is better for business in times like now.

Lol,

Aurion/Camry not selling… get your facts right…

Toyota is one of the only manufacturers in the world not in debt! thats why they have there own finnace devision lending to the consumer!

good to see a company playing smart buisness!

Tyson : you are correct. On another local (Australian) car site they have printed an article on the impeeding loss to be reported by Toyota for the next 6 months but they went on to describe the mega cash reserves Toyota holds and their super low debt ratio.

Didnt realise there were so many Japanese people on this site!! They sure love their white goods cars !!

Oh……Toyota just made a 1.7 billion loss ……..the worm has turned!!

Ford HAVENT asked for money to survive….only GM and Chrysler which will be broke in a few weeks. GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT PEOPLE

Adam : how is there fudging of the figures if that’s how it stands, maybe you just don’t like the statistics so try to put a curve ball spin on them instead but eitherway it doesn’t change thier individual stance.

Of course Holden and Ford have more employees because of thier greater local R&D but at the same time isn’t that what has come under increasing pressure over the years due to the greater overheads associated with such localised programs especially in an ever increasing tightening market.

Ford Oz is by far not the most efficent as they employ between the numbers of Toyota and Holden but produce / manufactuer not much more then half the annual numbers of Toyota and Holden which subsequently are indentical not to mention the increased overheads associated with the indigenous platforms of the Falcon, Territory and 4.0 L6.

With Ford reporting the greatest loss of the 3 (Toyota, Holden and Ford) and all the other issues identified, how is Ford the most efficent ??

I would like to hear your explanation as opposed to the obvious as outlined.

To me, it seems you are trying to fudge fiction with non-fiction were Ford Aust. is concern but by all means feel free it it pleases you but regardless, please bare in mind it doesn’t change the leaner economic stance of the 3 local producers.

As for saying the Aurion is not a class leader, it depends what you consider because as far as i concerned it has class leading quality, probably prove to have class leading reliability, the most refined drivetrain and defantly the most economical.

Considering the Aurion is still the first carnation of it’s type and without an update as of yet while the FG is an all new release, i believe the Aurion holds it’s own and guaranteed to only improve and get better with subsequent upgrades and new models.

Archie, the site is not called fordandholdenadvicedotcomdotau. There are plenty of euro lovers around too, and a few korean ones as well (i dont know why though).

Archie : Holden has pulled more nasties then anyone else in this nation with claims of being Australian when they are 100% American owned and the Commodore being Australian but if my knowledge serves me correct, with exception to the VE – all or most ‘dore models have been just a little extra then rehashed / localised Opels.

Adam : I just provided you with a relavent referance not to mention can be found easily on the net with a little help from google.

I believe you have an issue with the truth so play games instead but by all means be cowardly if you so desire but eitherway it doesn’t change anything.

Being lazy to invest some energy to familiarize yourself with some basic local knowledge of our car industry and then attempt to camoflague (spelling) it in a manner you did is a true low way of saying … ” i didn’t know that ”

So much easier by just admitting you didn’t know it but now you do !!!!!!!

What’s wrong with that ??????

McKay u know nothing.Show me an Opel even similar to a VZ Commodore? That’s like calling a Lexus a Camry.LOL.

Best stick with your Toyota mate and all the marketing bullshit that goes with it.

If i spit profit figures out, like you have done to try and make an accurate, so called relevant point, i’d be able to show where my figures came from.
If it’s so easy to find, post them, simple.

You were wrong about commodore being indigenous, why should i believe your unproven figures?

You aren’t right about aurion either…

Like i said i drive these cars for real unlike many who comment but never drive them.

I do have an issue with the truth, as you can’t prove figures you put forth as fact.

Realcars : if you exhibit no understanding that previous Commodores have been little more then sprucked up Opels then i must say, i am truely amazed by your challenge.

What ever you do next, pleased don’t tell me you are a Holden man then claim you know nothing about the DNA of Opel and all Commodore models up to but not including the VE.

Ordinary .. i guess that best describes Holdens range of the Korean Daewoo.

MacKay what Opel is the VZ Commodore based on?

VB Commodore had a Rekord shell but everything else was different i.e from the HZ including some suspension components and the entire drivetrain etc.That was the first and original Opel based Commodore and subsequent models have evolved from that.

So there hasn’t been a direct Opel relative to the Commodore since the late seventies.

Come on I mean we may as well say that most Lexus use the Camry platform which isn’t all that flattering if u think about it.

Also from caradvice 18th June 2007

2006 – $146 million loss
2005 – $144 million loss
2004 – $300.8 million profit
2003 – $285.6 million profit
2002 – 256.5 million profit

“All is not bad however, the profit/loss life cycle is a common occurrence when a new Falcon or Commodore is introduced.”

Sorry, those were Holdens figures

McKay……i have driven both the “ALL NEW AURION” and the FG …….i would say that the materials and fit and finish of the FG are equal to if not above the Aurion\Camry. Switch feel and ergonomics are easily better in the FG. The FG also has a strong body feel about it on rough roads and when pushing along through corners, something which the Aurion cant get close to matching. Fuel economy of the Aurion is also mis-leading. Real world economy i feel would be in favour of the FG which has surprised alot of people with it excellent economy in ALL conditions, not just highway driving. And dont worry……many many Toyota vehicles have been on the back of tow trucks so dont go on about their so called reliability……..they have lemons like eveyone else.

Cause it wouldn’t be profitable. Toyota are doing a resonable Job at beating the locals. If they tried to take them at their own game I don’t think they’d capture the market.

Holden and Ford do have a niche market so to speak, there’s a certain market they appeal to with their large RWD sedans (and other variants, utes, wagons). The cost of development and possible return Vs. risk for failure don’t add up.

Wheelnut : you can type a ten page essay if you so wish but it doesn’t change the basic fundamentals or current returns (profits) of Holden, Ford and Toyota in Australia.

Altona (Toyota), Elizabeth (Holden) and Broadmeadows / Geelong (Ford) all satisfy a position within the greater organisation of thier respective parents and at the end of the day they either return a profit or add (losses)to the burden if company economics are not so bright.

You claim the Camry being manufactuered in Australia is nothing more then a local post for a global platform which may be true to a point but true global vehicles such as the Camry dont just meraculously (spelling) appear in mid air ready for sale, they have to be manufactuered somewhere and Altona just happens to be apart of the global Camry pie with the Aurion adding a twist.

Judging by reports i have read, Altona happens to manufactuer the second highest grade Camry’s in the world behind Japan while being one of the more efficent operations.

I guess Toyota announcing the Hybrid version will commence local production from 2010 suggests thier intentions to be around longert hen what some are prepared to give credit for.

Mattyb,

Thats why Holden, Ford and NOT Toyota have local design and engineering bases for the asia/pacific region.

Ford AUS isn’t going anywhere, they have product plans that include local assebly and operations.

If thier existence here made no business sense, they would simply do what Toyota AUS does now.

Credit where it is due Toyota did popularise Twin cams ans multi valves and Got Holden to sell the Apollo and Corolla equivalent with GMH badge which introduced a whole generation of Holden buyers.

You’re right Frontman, Ford, Holden and Toyota are all building the vehicles the vast majority of people want them to build. They’re also building cars to a price.

Let’s not pretend like the Motor Industry should be immuine to the crunch.

Adam : by all means, Ford and Holden’s local R&D involvement over the coming years could just as well become much less then what it is today so don’t be over confidant with your statements. Times are changing and changing fast and right now, Ford and GM are in no position but to accept money from the public purse just to meet thier next payments.

Realcars : make no mistake of it, unless Holden and Ford operations in Australia become alot more steamlined, efficent and thier parent companies indentify lasting and solid exports, they will gradually dwindle to much less over the years. Take GM as the latest example with the imminent repositioning of the Pontiac brand which will most likely end the G8 in the States not that it has sold overly well anyway.

just as an aside the 380 did about 10000 units in 2007, those sales are now being absorbed by the remaining 3 big cars, VE is down 15%, Aurion is down 11% and the falcon is holding its ground from memory. For those that follow monthly numbers the first 6 – 7 months of this year looked like it was going to be a boomer again, and apart from the falcon the big cars were dropping sales. Don’t jump on the last 2 months bandwagon, look long to mid term for trends, its not good news, and its been obvious for a while!

Quote [Frontman] – Holden basically picked up the tab for the ZETA platform that was designed to the US requirements then all but canned for the global platform.

The Zeta Platform wasn’t canned – it’s the platform that the VE Commodore Sedan Ute and Wagon etc is built on. Watch the Billion Dollar Baby D-V-D or read the book “Autobiography” [by Peter Robinson]; for all the background info on the VE project.

The Alpha Platform on which the TT-36 Torana concept car is based and was developed by Holden however; has been canned in favour of the “Global” mid-sized platform on which the new Opel Insignia is built as it can take
FWD RWD and AWD.

Nix,

And camry/aurion sales?

Yeah they are rising…

Lucky the aussie dollar is dropping otherwise Toyota exports would be in the red, again…

mckay was talking about Toyota’s global profits, how about Toyota’s local profits for the past 6-10 years??

Well given the 16-17 billion dollar profits in the financial years ending june 07 and 08, surely a small 200 mill profit in its Australian operations isn’t that much of a stretch?

I will have a search later… I’m supposed to be working right now

“VE is down 15%, Aurion is down 11% ” Adam I did say all 3 big car makers are in trouble…Read the whole post.

Nix,

You had posted your last response after i had posted mine, i didnt get to read yr latest post!

Quote [Frontman]: Also as for the Australian operation, firstly they do have an R&D centre of excellence here in Aust, but it is more of a tuning and modification centre.

So its NOT an R&D centre as Toyota Australia merely take a car which someone else has doen all the design and testing for than make a few changes to try and get it to suit a different environment.
They don’t have a state of the art design studio in which they can create concept cars let alone a completely new car from scratch like Holden did with the VE and Ford do with the Falcon

Holden and Ford can virtually design and build a car from Go to Whoah whereas Toyota just add the finishing touches and a coat of polish

Adam Ford do a pretty good job, have in fact held their market share in OZ this year, all three OZ manufacturers have problems, and the recession certainly isnt going to help solve those.

“They don’t have a state of the art design studio in which they can create concept cars let alone a completely new car from scratch like Holden did with the VE and Ford do with the Falcon” This is holdens and fords problem, dev costs in a shrinking market. Globally the answer is reduced platforms, less is more so to speak. Nothing wrong with the cars, its just that their on there own in a shrinking market.

ride..

On the other side of that coin though, McKay, is the fact that Broadmeadows and Clayton are the design management centres for Ford Asia Pacific. Hence the Indian Fiesta Sedan, T6 Focus production down here with the possibility to spawn a “Backie” for the sooth afrecarns and a few other models to be looked into.
Holden are still regarded highly for their design input in vehicles such as GM-DAT Captiva and others.
The biggest selling point on all the Australian R&D centres is value for money.
As for the Ford being “in no position but to accept money from the public purse just to meet thier next payments.”
Unfortunately not quite correct. Ford was only looking for a line of credit to make suppliers feel more comfortable. Ford has the reserves to make the changes needed and see throught the market situation without selling Volvo, the remaining stock in Mazda or government money. It’s just that the line of credit would make everyone it deals with more comfortable. If I wanted you to commit to me, you would feel more comfortable doing so if you new that the government had promissed me enough money to pay you if things went bad, correct? That’s what Mullaly is looking for.

Adam : i am beginning to think you can not see anything.

RoFlmaTic : i like you, on the ball with your figures. Keep up the good work.

Toyota Aust. profits of $230 odd million compared to Toyota’s global take of $16.97 billion during the 2007 / 2008 period is chicken feed i agree but still returned goods is better then no goods.

Quote [McKay]: Realcars : make no mistake of it, unless Holden and Ford operations in Australia become more steamlined, efficent and thier parent companies indentify lasting and solid exports, they will gradually dwindle to much less over the years. Take GM as the latest example with the imminent repositioning of the Pontiac brand which will most likely end the G8 in the States not that it has sold overly well anyway.

The Operations of Both Ford and Holden are much more streamlined efficient and productive than most of [if not all] of their factories in the USA

In the USA both GM and Ford have a number of plants that are relatively close to each other both operating at less than 70% and both building virtually identical vehicles and in some cases the factories are dedicated to building a particular type of car Sedan Coupe or Pick Up even LHD or RHD which is one of the reasons they are losing money.

Whereas the Holden Factory for example has the flexibility to build a Sedan followed by a Ute followed by a Wagon etc Not tomention LHD and RHD cars all on the one line.

Plus the new Skillet System which was installed at Elizabeth for the VE has increased output improved build quality and reduced the number of worlk related injuries all of which have an impact on the bottom line

The operations in Australia have to be streamliend and efficient becaus eof the size of the local market we don’t have the room let alone the money to have a “dedicated” factory in each state like they do in the US

Both Holden and Fords parent companies muat think that the Local operations are viable given that – Ford reversed the decision to axe the [powerful and reliably efficient] I6 and the Zeta Platform which the VE is built on is being used in other GM projects

As for exports.. expect GM to start building LHD Commodores [which will be badged as Chevs when Pontiac is gone] in Canada along side the Camaro once initial demand for the Camaro dies down. This will then give Holden the capacity to start building a medium/small sized car here; given that Ford Oz will be building the Focus in 2010.. or perhaps RHD Camaros.

The reason the G8s not selling well at the moment is because of the economic Downturn not because its an inferiro quality car – far from it… visit a number of USA Auto blog sites and you will see it has established a considerable supporter base.

Infact before the economic downturn in the US there were [on average] 6 trucks loaded with G8s leaving the Factory in Adelaide for the Port every hour.. and some dealers in the USA were selling them as quickly as they arrived or had 2 month waiting lists.

why are global profits of one company being compared with domestic figures of another??

Quote [Andrew M]:
was a thought ever cast that its still the sales leader???
if the quantity of commodores being sold equates to them not being able to sell them, what does that say about the rest of the market that is placed behind the commie.

Very true Andrew…. particularly as the majority of cars in the top 10 are imported.

Do agree the FG shytes all over the Aurion for touchy feelie and quality! SHAME TOYOTA LUVERS SHAME FOR NOT DEALING WITH REALITY AND BEING LOST IN YA BUBBLE WORLD THINKING TOYOTA WILL ALWAYS BE NUMBER 1 AND MORE SUCCESSFUL THEN REST = you stoooooges!

I don’t wonder about u MacKay.

U obviously worship at the Toyota Altar.LOL

I love how Toyota puts a positive spin on declining sales then lays the boot in to the other local manufacturers.

At the end of the day Holden and Ford design and build the Falcon and Commodore for the most part for the Australian market.

Toyota offers the Aurion with inferior FWD dynamics and as a result is significantly cheaper to manufacture as well as having it’s developed costs shared with overseas variants including Camry produced for a world market.

Al things considered Holden and Ford make a mighty fist of it producing such good cars given the circumstances.

Wheelnut : please don’t put quality and Commodore in the same sentance because it doesn’t belong. The VE has been everybit a quality and reliability issue that every other model has been recognised for previously not to mention i can list a dozen or more common faults associated with the VE straight of the cuff without thought.

Every report and comparison i have read related to the VE have questioned the quality of the ‘Dore not to mention what goes without mentioning the aweful V6 drivetrain that is ultimately the worse choice in it’s segment.

With exception of the VE being a tidy handler and some ‘bang for your buck’ choices from HSV, that however is pretty much where it begins and ends were for the VE

As for Pontiac, it’s name has been tarnished / trashed for many years which is why the G8 was invoked in an attempt to boast the reputation of the brand but even before the current down-cycle took hold, the G8 failed to record sustainable sales from the beginning.

Realcars : i believe the Aurion makes a mighty fist of it’s own even in it’s first carnation. I guess expected facelifts and new models to arrive over the coming years will make lads like yourself wonder what Toyota will do next.

Nix,
the diminished share for ford and holden can be blamed on the increase in motoring choices.
We are all spoilt for choice.

Retail in general is stuffed. Nothing like what it used to be 10 years ago.
I know they love to chant on about it on the news when they see a little boost, but dont believe that, retail is stuffed.
Once again a heap of the blame can be attributed to the wide choices we have in where we can shop.

The councils think its all well and good approving fancy new shopping developments, and current centres expanding,(mind you they get their cut) but noone stops to think there is only so much patronage to go around.

in my area alone there has been 2 massive new centres built in the last 2 years with one supposed to become the largest in the southern hemisphere, plus 3 others have expanded.

What im getting at is its quite simple to explain how someones market share will diminish when a shopping choice increases

Andrew : here is another perspective.

Holden and Ford’s collective efforts once totalled about 50% of the Australian market but today thier collective actions not only equate to less then 25% but less then Toyota’s lone effort minus Lexus, TRD and Hino Trucks.

Next question to beg is why are they having nil luck in enticing the once Holden or Ford buyer back to thier brands ?????????

But then again, when you have a look at Holden i guess it really isn’t that complicated to puzzle it together after all.

Nix,
well when you look at it, ford, holden and toyota all fit the model i described.

toyotas range increased, holden and particularly fords range decreased. ford was without a small, light and medium car choice for quite a while. Only now are they picking that up. The thing is though, now those buyers have deflected elsewhere

Ford Global

Market cap ▼ US$ 6.3 Billion (December 2008)[1]
Revenue ▲ US$ 172.455 Billion (2007)[2]
Operating income ▼ US$ 5.296 Billion (2007)[2]
Net income ▼ US$ -2.723 Billion (2007)[2]
Total assets ▲ US$ 279.264 Billion (2007)
Total equity ▲ US$ 5.628 Billion (2007)
Employees 87,700 (2008)[3]

GM Global

Revenue ▼ US$ 181.122 Billion (2007)[1][2][3][4]
Operating income ▼ US$ -4.390 Billion (2007)
Net income ▼ US$ -38.732 Billion (2007)[5]
Total assets ▼ US$ 148.883 billion (2007)
Total equity ▼ US$ -37.094 billion (2007)
Employees 266,000 (2008)[6]

Toyota Golobal

Market cap ▼ USD $171.88 billion (2008)[2]
Revenue ▲ USD $262.39 billion (2008)[2]
Operating income ▲ USD $22.61 billion (2008)[2]
Net income ▲ USD $17.15 billion (2008)[2]
Total assets ▲ USD $323.97 billion (2008)[2]
Total equity ▲ USD 118.47 billion (2008)[2]
Employees 316,121[3]

Read what you want into.

That total equity for GM is now -60 billion

All i can say is go the falcon we should be proud of it.Its the only ozzy car left that has a ozzy engine built here and fitted to ozzy car all other cars have imported engines in there ozzy cars.Im so glad ford choose to continue with this engine for us.And its the best car on the market in its model line up

Toyota do have a design centre in melbourne, thats how they came up with the re-hashed v6 camry (aurion) which is not exported, mckay.
The Pontiac G8 sedan is safe but according to Left Lane News the ST (ute) is on shaky ground.
The fact of the matter is Toyota is looking at a 1.7million dollar loss and profits to be down 80%.Fudge facts and figures all you like ppl, this is reality.

Falcodore : indeed, fudge figures as much as we like as it detracts nothing away from GM, Ford and Crysler being reliant on the public purse for survival while Toyota has mega-wealth in reserve.

Jeykel : most Commodore buyers are 80 – 84% fleet which means only 16 – 20% are counted as private sales.

Andrew : in reality with your head pulled from the sand, approx 80 – 84 % of Falcon and Commodore sales are fleet accounted and that doesn’t include fleet sales of the rest of their fleet.

I believe it is about time you started suppling reliable information instead of winging it for once.

drive down the Geelong\Melbourne road and you will see acres and acres of unsold VE Commodes……this is why they are closing the factory for another month. Add to this the 11,000 VE Pontiacs in the USA …….mmmmmmmmmmm

reading a lot of stuff here, basically just ensures one thing.

Some people argue with figures and numbers, (facts)

some argue using their preferences….

and btw

Toyota’s R&D/ Engineering center here is 4 years old…. and as other Toyota R&D/Engineering centers around the world… work together on global platforms to ensure compatibility globally…. now if you know the benefits and advantages of that approach… you’d see why Toyota is doing better than others..

Yes this whole blog topic socks

I saw that and roared, Bret. A carnation is a flower, like a nasturtium. Do not cast nasturtiums on Mckay’s (Dingo’s) intelligence.

Take fleet sales out of the equation and the most popular car in the country is…..drum roll….. the Mazda3. Thats a fact people. Yes, in the private sector where all of us ‘car enthusiasts’ reside the humble Mazda3 sits atop the podium.
Hopefully that will make all you who are either Ford, Holden or Toyota fans see some perspective….hopefully

Falcodore,
Thats old news that everybody knows. But it only applies to new car sales. Many people prefer to buy “near new” and take advantage of ex-fleet savings.
All these arguments that fleet numbers don’t count because they don’t equate to real people is just wrong.
What do you think fleets would do with all of their old cars if “real people” didn’t but them?
So whilst “fleet” may be to companies first, they all go to private buyers in the end.
It’s realy all about total volume.

Should have said “when they filed this press release.’ sorry

McKay,
i was asked for some reasons why toyota saw growth in sales, and holden saw decline sales.

2 reasons i presented are,
(a) toyotas range increased, and holdens decreased and

(b) toyota went after fleet sales aggressively, and holden backed off them

they are both relevant.
im not one to say fleet sales dont count, what i did was provide 2 reasons which are TRUE, and both reasons could be reflected in each of toyotas and holdens sales to show the sales outcomes that we see

There is something subliminal going on on this blog as I have suddenly gotten the urge to scour the classifieds for a used Aurion.

Hey Pickles has millions of them.Yipeeeeee.

“(b) toyota went after fleet sales aggressively, and holden backed off them..”

Over that 10 year period Andrew, exactly when did Holden back off on chasing fleet sales? Did you read that in a Holden brochure somewhere?

The Camry is a fleet seller, no prob with that, the Aurion yes to an extent, but then its only been out 2 years?

No problem with your point (a), But you have heard of Barna, Epica, Viva and Astra? See a problem there? I do

So the station wagon was released 3 months ago, that’s really relevant to the last 10 years. Here’s a tip, stop reading the brochures

Crikey some of you guys make me laugh.

Approximately 80% of Commodore and Falcon sales remain fleet driven and the stats don’t change no matter how you look at it.

It is still 80% or even a little more this year according to the sources i have read.

Dlr1, I agree that the packages are geared by the Dp’s etc. But they are also geared to maximise the direction the distributor want them to go.
In the case of a distributor chasing volume, your pay structures roll that way. I remember selling Mazda’s during the 90′s when the coined the phrase, “do the deal teh profit will follow”. At the standard $50 or 10% comms a lot of sales staff swapped to selling Hyundai’s (flat rate $80.00). Same franchise had Mitsu’s and we were making only 80% of target and had around a 30% pump in to our PMA by oterh dealers, got the standard performance letter several times which basically openly stated that because we were retaining twice the state average we were losing sales. Even had the state manager tell us to dicount heavier and sell more cars & we’d be better off?????

No its not relevant, I was talking over a 10 year period, Andrew clearly stated that Toyota was aggressively chasing fleet sales whilst Holden was pulling back. Your only evidence of Holden pulling back is a station wagon with a smaller cargo bay which was released 3 months ago? Like I said, stop reading the propaganda

I also mentioned the fact that the VE Ute is marketed more as a Lifestyle Vehicle instead of a Serious Workhorse like the Falcon.

Or what about the fact that Holden no longer have a Serious Full Size 4×4 to compete against the landcruiser prado which is a popular choice in the primary industry.. particularly mining

Holden don’t have a People Mover either [like the Tarago]which is another favourite with rental car companies
Nor do they have a Commercial Van like the Hiace or Transit and therefore are overlooked by Couriers etc

All of which buy their vehicles in bulk orders and thereby receive huge discounts.

Mind you given that these areas are where Toyota is well established there really is no point.

The only area where Holdens are attractive to Fleets is with the Commodore range which they sell mainly to Government Departments