U.S. bailout plan rejected by Senate
December 12, 2008 by George Skentzos
The U.S. auto industry bailout plan has failed to pass through the Senate overnight, worsening the prospect that General Motors and Chrysler LLC may collapse.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said quite simply that it would be a “very, very bad Christmas for many Americans”, dreading the repercussions of this decision on Wall Street.
Already in Asia, the Nikkei stock market has fallen by more than 5.5 percent, sparking only the first consequence of the failed bill.
The bailout plan received the majority vote; however fell seven votes short of the number needed to consider the measure.
This rejection leaves GM and Chrysler LLC in a difficult position, the time has come to take desperate measures in order to raise the combined $11 billion they say they need this month to stay solvent.
The stumbling block which prevented the plan from passing the Senate was a dispute over when UAW workers would consent to have their wages reduced to match those paid to non-union workers in U.S. import-brand factories – having rejected a 2009 deadline for the parity demand.
General Motors has said it may not have enough money to operate by year-end, a sentiment echoed by Chrysler LLC.
“We will assess all of our options to continue our restructuring and to obtain the means to weather the current economic crisis.” said a spokesperson for GM.
Economists and researchers have warned that a failure of one or more of the car companies will shatter a U.S. economy already in recession.
Together the Detroit 3 CEOs say they need at least $34 billion in federal money to get through the recession that has seen U.S. new vehicle sales drop to 25-year lows.
Ford said it doesn’t need immediate help but may need a $9 billion line of credit should the economy weaken further or one of its domestic rivals collapses.
One last hope remains for the bailout plan however, with Congress able to reintroduce the new legislation early next year when Democrats have a wider majority in the Senate.
Print it: 
I thought everyone knew that image conscious wankers drove Pageros, not Prados.
I think you will find that the current predictions of Toyota’s profits is about 2-3 billion for the year ending June 2009 (depending on which is forecasting).
This has been cut from around 10 billion or so before the downturn. I think they might be making a loss in the october 08 – june 09 period but they did well in the first quarter of this financial year, so they will be in the black overall.
Tomas79 Says
Wheelnut says “BTW you say that I criticise Toyta so much that I must secretly admire them and aspire to own one”
Somebody else said that you tool!! I Said you have a rather un-healthy fascination for Toyota, probably caused by envy or some mental disorder!! As many people have said before me, you bring it up every chance you get, no matter what topic is just psychotic!!
Ok I admit it wasn’t you; it wa some other diluded Toyota lover with a holier than thou attitude. However you continually lay the boot in to Holden at any oportunity you get no matter what the topic as well. As they say
“Qui Pro Quo”
RoFlmaTic : your statistics are pretty much right on the ball although Toyota’s actual reporting period is from March 01 – Feburary 29 each year.
For the current period, they are expected to return a profit albeit considerably less then originally forecasted which was about 12 billion. That in itself is down on thier last reported profit of $16.97 billion.
Toyota has been profitable every year sense 1999 and the past 7 consecative years have reported between $16.5 – $19.0 billion which is a massive feat in itself.
However, it appears leaner forecasts are predicted until the global economy improves but eitherway, they remain strong and cashed-up to ride the down turn which is alot i can say about others.
So let me get this straight Tomas – unless you are 29-30 years old; were born in Europe but now Live in WA; work as an “engineer” and drive a Green 2008 Toyota D4D Automatic Prado…. You are a Bogan? is that it?
That’s the way it appears going by tour attitude as well as your comments etc.
What does “Qui Pro Quo” mean ?????
Anyone who buys a 4×4 just for the image it conveys is a Image Conscious wnaker.. particularly if they have no intention of taking it off road [the purpose for which it was built] because its “trendy”
Diesel Prado’s are one of the best 4×4’s one can buy alongside the LC 70 & 200 series, LX570 and Nissan Patrols & Navara’s.
What worthwhile 4×4 does Holden or Ford sell ?????
Why buy a 6.0 V8 Holden Ute to haul 2 people !!!!!!
Wheelnut Says:
”
Anyone who buys a 4×4 just for the image it conveys is a Image Conscious wnaker.. particularly if they have no intention of taking it off road [the purpose for which it was built] because its “trendy”…”
Sure, so since softroaders are not really off road oriented, anyone in a territory, Escape, captiva, x-5, xc-70 is an immediate flashwanker?!!
Tomas79, you have got a slight point. I know what you mean. Most people buy soft roaders such as the VW Tiguan, Holden Captiva, Ford Escape, Mitsubishi Outlander, Honda CR-V mainly for just a practical car. For carrying kids or towing a (slightly) bigger boat or caravan than you would with a family sedan. For generally around the same price as your average family sedan. But people that buy a Suzuki Vitara/Grand Vitara or Nissan X-Trail would still use it as a car to do small offroading not rough off-roading but they are still a soft roader
Though……….people that buy big or full time 4×4’s such as a Nissan Patrol, Toyota Landcruiser or even 4×4 utes such as the Toyota Hilux, Mitsubishi Triton, Nissan Navara and Holden Colorado etc. The people that buy those large 4×4’s and don’t use them for what there meant to be used for are called “Image Conscious Wankers” like Wheelnut said, but I just call them “d*ckheads” or just plain “idiots” in a polite way. If there not going to use there big 4×4 for going off road, going the beach, carrying a large caravan or boat they are complete wankers Tomas79! It’s just pointless and a waste of money!
Hey I hate the people that buy big 4×4’s and live in the city and drive around in their big Patrol or 200series Landcruiser or even worse a HUMMER H3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I mean isn’t that stupid!? That’s not what it’s designed for or made to do? Is it!? How hard would it be to park between cars in the car park all the time in the city? Very hard I believe. You’d be scraping and wrecking a car every time you leave home. Or those pay parking underground. The road is to small and the height to get under is too small once again. It’s different if you are travelling through the city or visiting though, but people actually live in the big city and drive their BIG 4×4 is stupid. I think in England when ever you pass through a city you have to pay a fee or ticket when you are in a large 4×4. Car retilers in the city should some how not sell 4×4 to people that have no intention to use the 4×4 for it’s proper use.
Like yesterday, their was this d*ck that had like 22″ Chromies on his old Jeep Cheoreke!!!!!!!!!!! Plain siily! Now that’s a……….“Image Conscious Wankers”
So if you have a full time or large 4×4 use it what it’s designed for and don’t use to pick up your shopping from the mall in the city centre!!!!!!!!!!!!!
McKay Says:
December 15th, 2008 at 10:00 am “What worthwhile 4×4 does Holden or Ford sell ?????”
Is it me or you sound like a twit!!?!?!?!!! Anybody agree?
Arrrrrrr……………. Holden sells the Colorado, does it not?
And arrrrr………….. Ford sells the Ranger, does it not too?
Aren’t they both 4×4’s? I bloody oth think so!
Sure it’s a 4×4 ute, but it is still a 4×4!
Oh and Merry Christmas! ;)
As for me living in a bogan suburb,anyone on this site that know or lives in Perth knows your speaking crap.Seems you are still yet to understand the meaning of a bogan ! If its a suburb where the majority of the population are retired drive European cars and send kids to private schools then yes ,looks like I live in a bogan suburb!
Quote “As for Kalamunda, welcome to Perth!! That’s how much the prices have reason here buddy!!
So as I have my house on the market currently for over $950,000 I guess I shouldn’t have too much problem selling it seeing that’s what the median house price in a bogan suburb in Perth,……….ha ha ha
Stop embarrassing yourself with stupid comments with no fact just your opinion.
For the second time if Holden and Ford go Toyota wont pick up the “slack” you would just like to see it !
As I said last night what type of person would like to see Holden and Ford go to the wall ,those that obviously have no true support for their country and prefer to be dictated by the world largest car company that will move its operation back to Japan anyway!
What a horrible thought ,no rear wheel drive cars ! Unless you can afford something European! No affordable performance cars {by that I mean rear wheel drive,not torque steering TRDs} ,no more utes on building sites,what the hell are the police going to drive ? Aurions? No more Greeks in Falcon taxis,my god can you picture the future landscape in Australia ?
Bavarian Missile, You’re talking utter crap, based on incorrect assumptions, and like i said, talking about yourself the way you do really shows your class!! Take your anti-depresent meds, and let the rest of us talk about cars!! I’m really not interested discussing you, wheelnut or myself on this site!! Go to Facebook or whatever!
Duck i fully agree with you!! But my point is there is much more flashwanking SUVs that are regarded as image symbols, and truly arent intended to go off road, yet Wheelnut picks a Prado to specifically insult me and others on this site who drive a Prado.
And yes, I regularly take my 4×4 offroad on outings with my mates, or 4wd forum outings!! And it’s moded for purpose not looks!!
Duck, McKay was referring to 4wd Wagons.
Ford and Holden didn’t have serious(if you can call them that) Wagons since Ford Explorer, and Holden suburbans, and what failures they were?!
^^^^^^^^^^^And you had the Ford Maverick (essentially a Nissan Patrol) and the Holden Jackaroo (essentially a Isuzu Trooper).
Grammar mistake: ‘a Isuzu Trooper’. It sould be ‘an Isuzu Trooper’
Opps! :)
Bavarian Missile ( . ) ( . ) Says: “As I said last night what type of person would like to see Holden and Ford go to the wall ,those that obviously have no true support for their country”
I’m not american!! And i didn’t say i wanna see them go to the wall, it’s just that life will go on!!
Bavarian Missile ( . ) ( . ) Says: “prefer to be dictated by the world largest car company that will move its operation back to Japan anyway!”
Toyota isn’t GM, they don’t do as stupid decisions as like them!! And who cares whether Japanese instead of Americans Dictate to us!! Stop being such a hillbillie racist!!
As well they might Toyota like GM, and Ford might take their operations somewhere cheaper, i doubt they would take their operations back to Japan where the labor cost is greater!!
Tomas said “Bavarian Missile, You’re talking utter crap, based on incorrect assumptions, and like i said, talking about yourself the way you do really shows your class!! Take your anti-depresent meds, and let the rest of us talk about cars!! I’m really not interested discussing you, wheelnut or myself on this site!! Go to Facebook or whatever!
hahaha seems I hit a nerve !Looks like I mad my point,all you do is state your correct,so where are your facts………..if you remember you stated the *sit on my lawn with a tinne * Sorry I thought I was an am entitled to respond,you turned it into a bogan thing then.
wow 4X4 forums,I hope your more popular over there than you are here,
So there are two sets of rules are there Tomas one for you and another for everyone else.You have the right to call people that drive Holdens and Fords BOGANS but we’re not to mention what we think of soft off roaders and people that drive Prados,if you take it as personal insult when we mention Prado drivers then thats your problems not ours.
When will you start stating facts not opinions………..
Duck, Yep, but that was all years ago!!
I for one, welcome Isuzu re-entering the Australian market and trading on their own, they have a very good rep in the 4wd community!!
Bavarian Missile ( . ) ( . ) Says: “hahaha seems I hit a nerve !Looks like I mad my point”
No, you didn’t, just look at how long all your responses are, and how much of it is related to cars!! majority is just crazy re trick nobody cares about!!
BM, hope your monitor wasn’t damaged too much by your 440ml cans of Woodstock Bourbon & Cola (Cheap and Nasty)you through at them, in one of your many angry fits!! ;-)
Three insults in three comments ,keep it going Tomas! Your reported,says a lot about a person when they have to insult some one to make them feel better about themselves,or is that simply you cant argue without insulting , have an inferiority complex’s ?
Back pedal as much as you like Tomas about you not saying you don’t want to see them going to the wall but you have,seems your comments are gradually being deleted anyway .
Lets just read how much you’ll miss Holden and Ford cause you love them soooooooooo much
Quote
“Tomas79 Says:
July 26th, 2008 at 5:51 PM
AC COBRA Says:
July 26th, 2008 at 4:58 PM
“Proud to be Aussie because we can manufacture first class car’s”
You are joking right?? !! Who in Europe associates Australians with making great cars???”"
Should I continue cause there’s pages of well wishes from you to Ford and Holden on this site over the last months you have been on here!
You fight like a girl Tomas !
Bavarian Missile, your too not too bright, and a hypocrite too!! Obviously you are grasping at straws, as the qoute you presented doesn’t show me wanting the Australian industry to go to the wall!!
If you read what I said Tomas then maybe you will understand it a bit better…….it show your love for the brand………..I can keep looking for previous comments where you have said you will be glad to see them go! Whos the bright one…….
“”"”"quote “Lets just read how much you’ll miss Holden and Ford cause you love them soooooooooo much “”"”"
“Tomas79 Says:
July 26th, 2008 at 5:51 PM
AC COBRA Says:
July 26th, 2008 at 4:58 PM
“Proud to be Aussie because we can manufacture first class car’s”
You are joking right?? !! Who in Europe associates Australians with making great cars???””
Sorry CarAdvice for having to go constantly of topic!
Bavarian Missile, you are seriously thick?!! That quote talks about me saying they are not first class, e.g Mercedes Benz Level… And I never said I loved Ford or Holden?!! So WTF you are on about?!!
Actually please don’t tell me, don’t communicate with me further as I’m not interested in your Ford vs Holden vs Toyota rhetoric…
LOL
hahaha ,Tomas you cant control me………..whats up ?
The comment doesnt mention Mercs you mention you mention Aussies cant make good cars,cant admit we’re wrong and a control freak,gee you sound like my ex-husband !
So you dont love Holden s or Fords ,you think we make crap cars but you dont want to see them go to the wall ! Why not ?
Quote so what the hell did you mean by this
“Don’t get me wrong, I’m pro developing car R&D industry in Australia, but lets remove those nationalistic pride goggles and lets see what we really have here at the moment..”"
As I said I can continue to drag back as many of your previous statements as you wish to prove your back peddling!
Holden Colorado / Rodeo, Ford Ranger / Mazda BT50.
Were i come from, 4×4’s like these don’t come anymore ordinary.
Bavarian Missile, are you seriously stupid or something?!
Don’t you see that none of the quotes you have posted disprove anything i have said?!! Yes, the Australian industry isn’t the best, and doesn’t produce the first class car!! But that doesn’t mean i want the Australian industry to disappear!! If you don’t understand this, you must be extremely thick, or grasping at straws and psychotic to even bring it p!!
What would this country be like if we had no European and Japanese car companies.
We will have no decent small cars, no decent medium cars, no quality large cars, no decent SUV’s, no decent 4×4’s, no reliable performance cars and certainly no true luxury cars.
God, imagine what that would be like .. arrrr
The followin gare quotes from Tomas
December 15th 2008 @ 12.11: Bavarian Missile, You’re talking utter crap, based on incorrect assumptions
December 15th 2008 @ 12.35: Bavarian Missile look at how long all your responses are, and how much of it is related to cars!! majority is just crazy rhetoric nobody cares about!!
December 15th 2008 @ 12.58: Bavarian Missile, you’re not too bright, and a hypocrite too!!
Poor old Tomas. It appears that he’s gotten so confused that he’s not sure who he is anymore…. he keeps saying Bavarian Missile; when he obviously means Tomas79 – you got to feel sorry for him talking about himself in the 3rd person like that.
McKay – the Latin term Qui Pro Quo basically means you do something for me and I’ll do something for you in return
If Tomas stops bagging Holden at every given opportunity I will stop bagging Toyota at every given opportunity.
It may appear to have a deep dislike for Toyotas however going by Tomas’ comments and the fact he consistently resorts to personal insults and attacks [more than anyone else on this site] indicates that his dislike for Holden is just as deep if not deeper
Sure i am a Holden fan but I am willing to admit that there are a number of cars in the Holden range which aren’t as good as their direct rivals
Mind you as Tomas as shown – some people can be so stubborn and either unable to comprehend/understand what people are saying or unwilling to accept other peoples opinions etc regardless of how logical your arguement is or how much factual evidence/proof you use
You could have 100,000 people or 100s of reports saying that X is better than Y.
but if it goes against their pre-conceived ideal of what the situation is really like and what’s really going on it could mean that they are wrong [heaven forbid] and therefore they will choose to ignore it
If they don’t/didn’t know about it; read about it; or hear about it to them it didn’t; can’t or won’t happen
Wheelnut, you like going around in circles?! Please unless you bring something valid to the table don’t bother me!
Wheelnut Says: “Mind you as Tomas as shown – some people can be so stubborn and either unable to comprehend/understand what people are saying or unwilling to accept other peoples opinions etc regardless of how logical your arguement is or how much factual evidence/proof you use”
Yes, thank you… Too bad Bavarian Missile got so emotional in the process of me showing it!! She better learn when to back off, and to read other peoples comments next time!!
Caradvice isn’t it time to consider a a dingo like ban on Bavarian Missile, and Wheelnut??
As you can see spam this website going on about trivial off topic matters?!
Wheelnut : i guess Thomas79 has alot more truthful remarks to bag Holden or Ford at present then vice-versa so either way, it is lose-lose for you.
Mckay,go back to the Toyota blog so you can get your a r s e kicked over there,Tomas is just another Dingo that has no facts just opinions,a little like you!
Oh and wasn’t Dingo your mate when he was around Tomas,another Toyota extremist that doesn’t have a bad word against them.
Hahaha Tomas I never got emotional I laughing at every one of your silly opinions and even your insults ! Just like a woman to wan the last word!hahahahaha
I don’t take this site seriously ,its a bit of fun,why don’t you learn to enjoy it ! When ever you I see you insulting me I know I must be getting to you with the facts and the only way you can back out of it is with insults! *she giggles and shakes head !*
Bottom line is you boys dont like Ford or Holden and will be glad to see the back of them,thats just un-Australian.
Mckay why will have to imagine what this great country of OURS would be like with out Jap cars and Euro stuff?
Good to see you have a friend Tomas,was getting lonely for you without Dingo! Aint love grand !
God I should have read that before I posted it……………I think Ive typed too many letters this arvo! Time for a break!
Would be nice if people could stick to topic and forego personal attacks. There is room for many opinions provided they have some relevance and aren’t aimed at belittling others.
I disagree with many posters here but can understand there is nothing to be gained by butting heads apart from sore heads. Its a car forum, let’s try to remember that!
So true Simon, like i said caradvice should put another Ban in place!!
And unlike others, I’m here to discuss cars, and peoples opinions on cars and not people!!!
Bavarian Missile, please keep holden vs ford vs toyota mentality in your home…
To me the world is filled with many more brands then just these 3, most of which you and wheelnut never even heard of!!
Simon Says – December 15th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
Would be nice if people could stick to topic and forego personal attacks. There is room for many opinions provided they have some relevance and aren’t aimed at belittling others.
Tomas79 Says – So true Simon,
Thats hilarious; coming from the “person” who started the personal attacks and insults to begin with
I mean have you read what youve written over the past couple of days Tomas?
Those who live in Glasshouses shouldn’t throw stones
Wheelnut, Yes, i started of by commenting what other people have said on this site!! And then Bavarian Missile laid in with her personal attacks, and telling us how classy she is?! And then you followed!!
Tomas79 – What I mean by “Those who live in Glasshouses shouldn’t throw stones” is that You’re just as guilty as BM and I are
You haven’t mentioned anythingto do with cars or the article since yesterfday afternoon .. ts all been insults
BM and I merely responding to your comments but in a far more civilised manner
And if you took my comment about 4×4owners being Image Conscious Wankers personally.. get over yourself – I didn’t specifically mention you or your Green 2008 D4D Prado now did I?
Perhaps you guys would like to exchange numbers, or find a room?
Why don’t you three get a room or something?
Your all wrong, AND all right. You just don’t agree, and never will.
What was this blog even about……..?
James – SNAP
As I said Tomas you take no responsibility for your actions you blame others ,problem is Tomas your bad comments have been deleted now but you started the personal attacks so be a man for once grow some balls and admit it! Your comment too me about “”cracking open a tinnie on a couch on the lawn” started it .If you didnt insult people then you wouldn’t get attacked,simple as that!
Tomas79 – So you finally admit that it was your fault that we’ve ended up completely of topic…. see it wasn’t that hard now was it?
Although thats much more than what D—O could/would do
Are you also MAN enough to admit that you were the first to resort to personal attacks? because telling people where you live; what kind of lifestyle you have or what alcoholic beverage you drink etc isn’t a personal attack
Bavarian Missile,
Jees, I guess I’m a terrible person for saying that you “crack open a tinnie”?!!
Why did i mention it? Because you were bothering me with your stupid Ford,Holden vs Toyota crap, that i told you on many times not to bother me with!!
Anyway, Please from now on, don’t read my comments and don’t bother me further!!
Wheelnut don’t bother me!!