by Jez Spinks

Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito were easy. But is it possible to pick the difference between another set of twins, the Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ?

That’s the question CarAdvice set to answer across a range of beautifully sunlit country roads.

Our BRZ test car is in silver while the 86 is in red – good colours, even if we would have preferred brand-signature hues of WR Blue for the Subaru and white for the Toyota.

As we stand in front of the two sports coupes before setting off, the front ends are clearly distinguished besides the company badges and despite the rest of the body being virtually identical.

The Subaru BRZ adopts an inverted, U-shaped grille with cross bars and a thick black plastic section on which the rego plate sits; the Toyota 86 features a Ford-esque trapezoidal shape with honeycombed plastic for its gaping air intake.

Subaru’s coupe has a more pronounced front splitter edging out of the front bumper, and its foglight surround design is square where the Toyota’s is vertical.

Strangely, the Subaru’s panel gaps at the front are noticeably wider than the Toyota’s – a consequence of a not quite perfectly formed front bumper section we’d suggest considering both models are built in the same plant.
Our initial and then sustained feeling, though, is that the Subaru has the slight styling edge.

As we fire up the engines and roll out onto the open road, it’s time to ponder about how we came to be driving these cars: a Toyota that promises to be the antithesis of competent but uninspiring models such as the Toyota Corolla and Toyota Camry; a Subaru that contradicts an all-wheel-drive-only mantra that has governed the brand’s existence in Australia since 1997.
Toyota has been desperate to inject some excitement into its brand since the demise of sports cars such as the Supra, MR2 and Celica.

The company’s reputation for quality and durability is widely admired, though the global multi-million vehicle recall saga of 2009 had Toyota asking itself what else it had to trade on if its core values came under the spotlight.

The potentially damaging recalls episode, which did take place two years after Toyota had already initiated the sports car project, also coincided with the rise of the company founder’s grandson, Akio Toyoda, to the position of president.
Crucially, for the prospect of Toyotas that would transcend the common ‘Whitegoods on wheels’ tag applied by some to the company’s products, Toyoda-san was not only a relatively young president, but also a keen steerer who was even a certified test driver.

With Toyota’s global production plant capacity at maximum thrust with key volume models, however, it’s where the company’s 16.5 per cent share of Fuji Heavy Industries, the parent company of Subaru, came into play.
The collaborative talks resulted in Toyota determining it would take care of product planning and design, while Subaru focused on engineering and production.

So it should be no surprise that structurally and mechanically, the 86 and BRZ are heavily influenced by the brand with the constellation logo.

The platform beneath is new but features a rear subframe and basic suspension design concept that is similar to that of the Subaru Impreza WRX STI’s.

The engine under the bonnet is also classic Subaru: a 2.0-litre four-cylinder horizontally opposed ‘Boxer’ unit that is new but based on the engine that powers the Subaru XV and Subaru Impreza.

In both cars it produces 147kW, a worthy power output considering it matches the previous-generation Volkswagen Golf GTI that had a 2.0-litre aided by a turbocharger.

It doesn’t have a significant amount of mass to shift, either. The “Toyobaru” twins – as they were dubbed by the industry – are just 4240mm long (similar to a Golf) and weigh between 1245 and 1285kg depending on spec.

Both the 86 and BRZ are said to sprint from 0-100km/h in 7.6 seconds, or 8.2sec for the six-speed auto that was (a touch frustratingly) fitted to each car. From the seat of the pants the coupes certainly don’t feel much quicker than that decent-but-far-from-remarkable figure.

The soundtrack of the four-cylinder engine won’t send tingles down your spine, either, though the aural experience improves as the rev counter needle heads towards 7000rpm where peak power arrives.

You don’t have to strain your ears much to pick out the unmistakeable throb long associated with Subaru Boxer engines.

And with just a humble 205Nm of torque – little more than that produced by a Volkswagen Polo city car – the driver soon learns revs are crucial to getting the most out of these sports cars. And provides a lesson in how driving excitement is not all about outright speed.

Subaru developed the sports car to have a centre of gravity as close to the ground as possible, so the flat four-cylinder that already has an advantage in this area compared with upright engines is mounted lower than in any current Subaru.

Combined with a weight distribution that is fairly evenly split – 53/47 front/rear – the 86 and BRZ are cars that drive from corner to corner pivoting like they’re balanced on a central axis.

With neither car blessed with an excess of power, the engineers have sensibly ensured the sports cars aren’t over-tyred. Quite the opposite in fact, as both the 86 GTS and BRZ are shod with the 17-inch tyres from the Toyota Prius i-Tech that are focused more on reduced fuel consumption, through low rolling resistance, rather than grip.

The result is a very playful balance between tyre grip and engine power, though those enthusiasts harking back to the drifting days of the Toyota Corolla AE86 that inspired the name for this Toyota will find going sideways takes plenty of encouragement. And not simply by stamping on the throttle pedal.

You could think of both the 86 and BRZ as a kind of Fisher Price ‘My first Rear-wheel-drive car’ as even a semi-skilled driver will get to appreciate the distinct handling trait of a rear-driven car without likely getting into trouble.

Yet there’s still plenty for experienced steerers. Central to the brilliance of the two cars’ handling is the steering.

A grippy, small-diameter steering wheel immediately and physically suggests you’re in a sports car, as does the low driving position and snug bucket seats.

It’s a quick and responsive steering rack, too, with the coupe’s turning in with immediacy and from there little steering lock required to adopt whatever cornering line is desired.

The BRZ is apparently a touch stiffer in the springs than the 86, but we couldn’t detect any significant difference in the way the two sports cars cornered or rode (surprisingly compliantly for the latter).

Only our video cameraman would later reveal that footage from the 86’s onboard camera was a touch less jumpy than the footage from the BRZ’s cam.

Maybe a racetrack would be the only place to expose any subtle differences.

If you’re at least hoping there are some variations between the cabins, then bad news. The interiors are also clones, with only some odd specification differences.

So they share the same cramped rear seats and same narrow boot. One key difference here, though, is that our 86 came with a boot liner whereas the BRZ didn’t, and we believe that’s the explanation for the Subaru’s cabin being a tad noisier than the 86’s on the road.

This advantage will have disappeared by the time you read this comparison, however, as Toyota Australia is controversially dropping both the liner and the full-size spare (the latter in favour of a tyre repair kit).

The Toyota will still lead on price. The two-tier Toyota 86 range starts at $29,990 for a base model fitted with 16-inch tyres, though the single-spec BRZ is a more natural match for the better-equipped GTS that costs from $35,490.

On-road charges need to be added to those figures, though Subaru has adopted an unorthodox approach by selling the BRZ online only and providing driveaway pricing only – $37,150 (or $39,780 if you want the auto version).

You have to pay an extra $1500 to get the BRZ to match the 86 GTS’s colour touchscreen satellite navigation system that adds a welcome dose of sophistication to an interior that is more functional than fancy, as well as premium heated sports seats.

Subaru’s servicing plan is more generous, though – free for three years or up to 60,000km.

You may find yourself struggling to get your hands on either, however.

Subaru has already sold out its measly 2012 allocation of 201 BRZs (though about a quarter of those are being used as dealer demonstrators), while a waiting list is continuing to lengthen for the 86.

It’s already been too a long time since an affordable rear-wheel drive sports car was available, so another few months could be trying for some.

But these nimble, finely engineered coupes are worth the wait. And in this comparison, there’s only one clear winner: driving enthusiasts.


Toyota 86 GTS
Price: $39,858.38 (driveaway, Sydney)
Engine: 2.0-litre flat four-cylinder
Power: 147kW at 7000rpm
Torque: 205Nm at 6600rpm
Transmission: 6-spd manual or 6-spd auto
0-100km/h: 7.6 seconds (8.2sec auto)
Fuel consumption: 7.8L/100km (7.1 auto)
CO2 emissions: 181g/km (164 auto)

Subaru BRZ
Price: $37,150 (driveaway, national)
Engine: 2.0-litre flat four-cylinder
Power: 147kW at 7000rpm
Torque: 205Nm at 6600rpm
Transmission: 6-spd manual or 6-spd auto
0-100km/h: 7.6 seconds (8.2 auto)
Fuel consumption: 7.8L/100km (7.1 auto)
CO2 emissions: 181g/km (164 auto)







  • Wile E Coyote

    All show… no go… both of vem

    • bobdevo

       You clearly have not driven them at high speed.

      • Wile E Coyote

        Don’t have to look at the feeble acceleration times

        • Damian

          Yes, your VN Commodore accelerates faster.  Happy?

          • Wile E Coyote

            That fact that you think you know what I drive is testimony to your bad judgement

          • Daniel D

            Whatever you are driving its made by Acme and its not as fast as a Road Runner.

          • Rikstah

            The fact that you are judging a universally acclaimed car based on numbers alone is testament to YOUR bad judgement

          • David

            “Whatever you are driving its made by Acme and its not as fast as a Road Runner.”
            What a fabulous reply! Love it.

            When I was a lad I’d pore over my Wheels magazines every month and rated cars by the 0-60 and standing quarter times too. Of course, when you grow up you realise the numbers don’t mean much at all when it comes to driving enjoyment. I owned a Mazda MX5 for a few years – that was all show and no go too apparently. But what a fantastic car. These twins seem like coupe versions from the same mould.

            I think these cars are fantastic.

          • Wile E Coyote

            David you score very low on comprehension.
            I said the MX5 did not pretend to be a performance car whereas these two do.
            Are you kidding that acceleration does not mean a lot when it comes to driving enjoyment?
            I guess that’s why manufacturers keep making cars more powerful so people can enjoy them less.

          • Wile E Coyote

            Rikstah numbers are very important especially when they tell you a so-called sports car is actually quite slow.
            Very disappointing that performance does not match the visual.

          • Wile E Coyote

            David W all irrelevant .In the old days they put a bonnet scoop and stripes and that was good for the impression of 20 extra hp.
            Today Toyota wacks on big exhausts.
            Same trick and people like you still fall for it.
            Toyota clever you dumb.

        • Dave W

          Yes, because clearly acceleration time is the only yardstick with which we measure a sports car… NOT!

          Doesn’t take much skill to go fast in a straight road, it’s mostly the car, not the driver. But whatever floats your boat mate. It just show that it’s YOU whom are mostly show and no go. God knows how many times I left your kind in the dust on a tight twisty road after they tailgated me on a wider straight road.

          • Wile E Coyote

            You have no idea of who I am and what I drive but I can tell you that one of the cars I drive would leave these two for dead on the twisties but then again it should because it cost more than triple.
            I can also tell you that performance DOES count together with handling for a sports car and these two vehicles need a lift in the trouser department otherwise they are just tarted up MX5s…handles well but a bit slow… except the MX5 does not outwardly pretend to be a performance vehicle…check those exhausts for only 147kw
            As I said these 2 are all show and no go but then maybe the chassis could not handle the extra power.

          • Still a hairdressers car

            Agree fully. If you’re going to all the effort to make it handle well, why make it only slightly faster than your average 2L sedan? A sports car is balance between Handling + Power. Not just handling and not just power.

          • $29896495

            145kw, should be plenty for a car like this. It really does bring into question the figures manufacturers are providing for engine power and torque. These are relatively light smallish cars. They should scream! From what tests are telling us, they are performing like they have 110 kw. 200nm of torque isn’t bad for a car this weight either, so if this was 5 years ago, a car this weight and with those numbers would be 2 seconds quicker? The same goes for certain other manufacturers too. Big numbers in little cars producing mediocre performance. Go figure?

          • Dave W

            Well then you tell me what other new RWD car in the market that costs the same as the 86/BRZ  that is just as powerful with the same great handling.

            Then you can tell me what new RWD car that costs the same as the 86/BRZ with more power and great handling.

            Take your time, I got all day.

            Pretender? Noone ever calls the 86/BRZ a “performance vehicle”. It’s just an “affordable sports car”, and before it came along, that title belonged to the MX-5. So I don’t understand why you’re saying the MX-5 doesn’t pretend but the 86/BRZ does.

            Besides, when they make the convertible 86, I’m guessing it’ll cost the same as the MX-5, if not cheaper. When that happens, you know which one most people will pick right?

          • Wile E Coyote

             Dave W regardless of all your blah the facts of the matter are that these cars would be more fun and sporty with more power.
            The cars appearance promises performance (as I said check those exhausts) and under delivers.
            I don’t think that is a difficult point to understand .
            You are in denial my friend and probably one day a turbo version will be released and you will say-oh no not desirable- too much power for me- I can still go pretty quick around roundabouts without that turbo.No no no  not for me I am a purist.And secretly you will always yearn for the turbo version (WRX motor would probably do nicely)
            We will see. 

          • Dave W

            You dodged that question like a politician mate.

            I have no problem with turbo cars. My problem is you come here and whinge about a $30+k car lacking power, despite the fact that it has 147kW. Seriously? What were you expecting? Porsche power and handling with the 86 price? Get real mate.

          • Wile E Coyote

            The looks belie the performance.That is my point and has nothing to do with price.You seem to have trouble understanding this or you choose not to

          • windyzz

            I guess it’s hard these days for any car to match a day 2 day car. As I’m seeing a new sedan bmw 3 series are over 200kw, and Bmw 130i is 230kw….

            Being a sport car needs to be fast in the straight and corner. but the benchmark is getting harder and harder these days.
            Example Audi new S3 will be 221kw and weight just under 1.4 tons, but this i think still not sufficient enough, as normal family sedan is already as powerful if not more powerful -__-”

          • Dave W

            The looks belie the performance…. Has nothing to do with the price…

            So what’s Toyota suppose to do? Give it a Corolla exhaust pipe? Make it look less sporty? Because they sure can’t make this car any faster for the amount of money they’re selling it for.

            Besides, I know you’d still whinge even if it doesn’t look as sporty as it does. You’d say something like “What a disappointment, it goes as fast as it looks.”

            Easy to just whinge about it not being faster and ignore the fact that nothing else in the market even come close to the 86/BRZ power and handling at the same price.

            People whinge about Toyota’s cars being boring and now with they got 86 looking sporty you still whinge. Haters will be haters.

          • Wile E Coyote

            Just for the record David W I love Toyotas.I have owned them and a Lexus.
            You must be a bit disappointed they did not put a big rear wing on the back for the appearance of an extra 100kw.

          • Dave W

            Now it’s you who’s making assumption about me. I actually don’t like the big spoiler, too Supra-esque.

          • Phunken

            A Toyota Aurion have 200 killer wasps V6, does that make it more sportier?

        • Phunken

          Ummm please check out the brief for this project. Enjoyment over speed and power, finesse is what they are aiming for. They left the rest of the go fast part for tunning companies. 

        • Gugliotta

           you dont get it Wile E Coyote.

          If Toyota put 200kW+ on it, they have to price it accordingly…

          You have to think about it from a market slot point of view.

          Sub 35K AUD RWD coupe…… nothing on the market.

          If they put 200+ kW on it, then it’ll blurr the market too much which is BAD long term….. 200kW coupe are in the 70K + range.

          once they build a 200kW 35K car….. its all over, a benchmark has been set and basically the car industry market would be in shambles… good for customers, but BAD for the market…. who can justify 70k+ for a 200kW when Toyota/Subaru has one for 35-40K?

          either way, I know your point that it doesnt have enough power…

          why not wait 2014-2015, when the turbo 195kW version comes out (rumoured) for 55K…. or the Toyota/BMW “Supra” 300kW monster rumoured to be priced under 100K (80-90K)..

          but guess what… the youngish 20-35 year olds who dont earn enough wont be the core market with those prices…

          so give kudos to Toyota/Subaru for allowing an affordable, decent power (great for everyday) coupe, with handles similar to sub 100K cars.

          • $29896495

            Very good comment, hit all the right points (again – I’ve said it also) Good work

    • DavidN

      This car isnt meant for going straight… I dont know why its so hard for people to realize this lol

      if you want a car that goes fast in a straight line, get a genesis. Its for a totally different crowd of “drivers” such as yourself

  • Gavin

    Feel like I’ve read this before?… Reposted story?

  • Shak

    What was the point of this story when you guys really didnt comment on the driving dynamics too much?

    • Sturmgewehr

       whats the point of this story when no one can get one for the next 2 years? when hyundai get their act together and bring in the genesis (274hp/275lb-ft for less than a GTS GT86)

      • JooberJCW

        I doubt it, i reckon over 40K easy for the genesis when it comes out here. Put this car in the same league as a Veloster and I know many people would prefer for a sports car.

        • Sturmgewehr

          of course not, even though the veloster has more power and torque and weighs the same it is still front wheel drive, so purists will never go for it. the genesis is rear wheel and makes a ton more power and torque AND sells for less that the BRZ in USA

          • $29896495

            Would you really choose a Veloster over a BRZ? As for Genesis, I don’t think Hyundai would see it as being in the same target market as a BRZ. But you never know, maybe they will poach some of their own sales off the smaller car – No they won’t.  

      • F1orce

        Yeah the base Genesis will easily cost upwards of 45k 

  • John

    So what was the real world fuel economy after your driving tests?

  • Oliver

    very ordinary review.. Thankfully the cars are far better than the review! 😉

  • $29896495

    OK, don’t know what the story gave, except filling a bit of space, but here’s a few observations I have about the car. Why isn’t it a hatch back, even sports cars can have some practicality  When I tried one on for size I found it to be to cramped, for a tall driver for long term comfort. Why put back seats in that are useless? That space could go to the driver and passenger and a boot area. Looks wise, I agree with you, the Sub, looks better. 

    I really hope this is the start of a run of semi affordable (affordable is low twenties in my book) sports cars, from not only Toyota, and Subaru, but other manufacturers too. Lets hope.

    By the way, why do you keep quoting prices that aren’t on road, I know you corrected this later, but in other stories too, you have a penchant for doing it. By law cars have to be sold and quoted as on road. There may be variation between states, you noted, but I think it would be better to stick to on-road cost so everyone knows where they are. 

    • John

      I think it is not a hatchback as that would have reduced body rigidity, which would’ve affected balance, handling etc.

    • Shak

      You said it yourself. On road prices can vary greatly between states, and even between dealers within states. Its better to quote retail prices for more uniformity, so that everyone can gage a roundabouts price for a car.

      • $29896495

        I suppose I shouldn’t have made that allowance, 

  • Robbie

    For my mid-life crisis (Not that far away *sniff*) Im looking at the smaller class of hot hatches like the Fiesta ST or Clio RS … Im hoping they’ll be below the 30k mark and a lot more fun?

    Fifth Gear did a review of the BRZ (I think may have been the Toyoto) and Jason Plato really liked the dynamics of the car but did keep lamenting on the lack of power.  Overall he really liked it.

    • Legnab

      Same the world over ,lack of power and torque.

    • Jober As A Sudge

      I thought the BRZ/86 was designed with tuners in mind. Give them a decent base package and let them work their magic on it.

      • $29896495

        does it matter, anyone can buy a car if they like it

        • Jober As A Sudge

          My response was those complaining about lack of power/torque.

          • $29896495

            Fair enough. Just on the tuning subject, I wonder if there is enough room under that bonnet to get a turbo or two? that might be the reason it wasn’t included in at least one variant. Though it could be held back for the first refresh. It is curious though.

          • Jober As A Sudge

            A quick internerd search brings up a fair few places around the globe that have managed to squeeze a turbo there. Tekno Performance in Australia has fitted the turbo behind the engine and is producing 169awKW (albeit with a few other mods thrown on).

          • Nick

            Supercharger kits are out for them recently. Should shut those people up whinging about lack of power!

          • $29896495

            In reply to below, had a look and it just goes to show, on one hand I was right, on the other if people want to do they will find a way. Saw pics of a placement under the motor. Looks pretty neat, though no figures. They seem to think it’s possible to double the out put – for $3,500 US

  • Andy Luc

    You know it does look like ferrari made love to hyundai and this is the outcome, illigitimate as it may be it’s not to bad

  • Thecaptain

    I beleive the point to all this is find a rwd naturally aspirated 4cyl 2 door under 40k! The car was desigined by Toyota, engine by Subaru injection system by Lexus and an outsourced gearbox! And Wylie, before you bag the car because you drive one worth 3 times more,doesthis mean yours has 3 time times the performance, doing 0-100 in 2.5 secs or have you bought a poor mans entry model euro sports car?

    • Wile E Coyote

      I don’t bag cars because they are cheaper but I do if they are pretenders…these pretend to possess performance …not much in it when compared to the average family car…how sporty.
      Also you should contact NASA because based upon price velocity theory they could easily get a rocket into space for less than $1m.And perhaps you could do us favour and take the first test flight.

      • Define Sporty

        How do you interpret the term “sporty”? 0-100kph? power and torque on paper? These are just performance numbers, theys are not neccessary the ultimate definition for “sporty” in real life.

        There are many other important criterias when judging a “sporty” car, and they are critically important if you actually enjoy “driving at the limit” rather than “cruising”. Criterias such as steering feel, clutch feel, gear engagment feel, brake feel, control positionings such as the steering wheel, gear lever, pedals placement and their relationship to the driver’s seat, agile and nimble handling, balance of grip vs power to perform powerslides, LSD effectiveness, ability to switch off ESP completely and stay off, etc.

        All these factors and more are combined to define the term “sporty”. Thats how to properly judge a “sporty” car. Sure the 86 is not a high performance cars in standard form, but that doesn’t take away the fact that it is a fun, affordable, and very “sporty” to drive.

        In fact, if people with high driving standards such as “Chris Harris” and “Jason Plato” droved the 86 and actually liked it, I wonder if you are claiming yourself to be more knowledgable and skillful then than these two experienced drivers combined?

        • $29896495

          People would like the best of both worlds. In some respects this is like the first Celica, which was a good little car in its time (still looks pretty, but for most markets had no go). Toyota acknowledge the 86 (BRZ) are under powered, that’s why they talk about tuners.

          There is word out there though that Toyota will be bringing out a larger more powerful coupe in the near future. That might do the trick, but of course the price, wont be so low. 

          • Wile E Coyote

            I meant to say Plato did criticise them for their lack of performance

          • Define Sporty

            Actually, Plato said “while a few more bhp would make it even better, the 86 does live up to the hype”.

            He also said the 86 is a car designed for people who likes driving, and he likes it because he likes driving.

            Funny how Plato never actually compared the 86 with a family car the way you did.

            Nor did he actually compared the 86 with NASA, their rockets, and your “price velocity theory”.

            So what’s that all about, Mr Wile “Expert know it all” Coyote?

  • Devil666

    205nm is pretty lax. They cut the width of the rear tyres so it would break out easier.
    I don’t think the ‘sport’ monkier can be applied to anything that shares tyre combinations with a Toyota Prius.

  • Shiok86

    Those who have put deposits on the cars, please read the above comments. They hopelessly underpowered cars. Now go cancel your orders.

     I hoping for a Xmas present. Toyota you listening.

  • Glenn59

    The 86 is a fantastic car and the whether you like them or not the price is just unbeatable.  That has got to be good for other sports car buyers as it puts pressure on the whole market to compete.  I just think good as it is the car is overhyped.  I have read some of the English test and while they love the car they do not seem to see it as a world beater like many here do.  One test in particular in ‘What Car’ this month has the 86 soundly thrashed by the renault Megane RS250.  It easily left the 86 behind even on the corners and helped along by massively better power and torque.  At the other end of the scale the very practical Golf GTI has more power and tons more torque as well as 5 doors and practicallity.  The 86 is enormous fun and great value but a world beater – I don’t think so.   

  • Chris M

    Save your self $5 – $10k and buy a Suzuki Swift Sport, even better value sporty motoring.  It is reported to be just as much fun to drive and does the dash to 100 km/h about the same as the auto.

  • Dave W

    It’s quite amazing how many people miss the point of this car.

    It’s not about power or acceleration time, it’s about handling. If you don’t like flicking your tail out in a corner, doing 180, drifting, etc. it’s not the car for you. Any review that simply test this car’s performance against the clock hasn’t got a clue what this car is about.

    And please… don’t compare a RWD sports coupe with FWD hatchbacks. They require a different type of driving. Apple and orange.

    • Big mac

      One can have fun in either, different horses for different courses. It is what you perceive value to be. Clearly some don’t see the value of these cars, so it is not a open shut case About the style or drive layout. But I bet the Suzuki could get round the track in a pretty similar time

  • Aussie

    These cars are selling very well. That is all that matters. Opinions of forum dwellers do not matter.

    • davie

      Consumer demand for these cars exceeds supply. Should result in good re-sale for years to come for stock or near-stock examples.

      I doubt that over-turboed examples with tasteless bodykits, 25 inch scratched chrome wheels, coffee tin exhaust tips and turbo gauges on the bonnett/A pillar will command the same prices.

      • Akelmann

        A car for Asian students.

        • $29896495

          Exactly, they are the only ones short enough to get comfortable in one (miniature Car Advice testers as well I guess)

  • jav

    Not just ugly but also very slow!

  • Jober As A Sudge

    Latest news seems to be some problems with the ECU causing rough idling and occasional stalling.

  • Nitrammcc

    I heard it mentioned recently that there is a difference between sports cars and performance cars.  Sports cars have an emphasis on being light weight, and being fun to drive.  Performance cars are about power and technology.  Obviously there is a lot of grey area here.   But this car is definitely on the sports car side of this equation.   

    And as one of the Subaru engineers said.   Light weight and a low centre of gravity can only be provided by the manufacturer, anyone can add power later if they want it.  

  • Wile E Coyote

    Light weight and low centre of gravity.
    Add power later
    Sounds all very familiar with the MR2 ( perhaps even more pure of design the these being mid engined) all 80 kw of it.
    Still if people want to delude themselves these are sports cars go right ahead.
    By the way a car that went close to these was the Toyota GT4 similar power and handling and could be called a sports car but that was 20 years ago!

    • So deluded

      Oh I see, so thats why “Ayrton Senna” loved racing light-weight, low-centre-of-gravity, and low-powered Go-Karts.

      Becasue according to your logic, “Ayrton Senna” was deluded about what sports driving is all about.

      No wait, almost all the F1 drivers started their careers racing Go-Karts, so in fact they are all deluded!

      Mr Coyote, you must initiate an international press conference immediately to call to attention the foolish error of their ways!

      • Murcie

        The only thing more entertaining than Wile E Coyote’s responses is that commenters here are feeding the troll within him.

        Because really, who gives a rat’s arse what the bloke thinks. He is part of the minority and it’s pointless to try and convert him to the majority because the difference in numbers between the two groups is a distance as great as the lightyears between the Earth and The Sun.

        Besides. According to you all he’ll just be a nuisance anyway.

  • RWD

    s15 200sx was still the best value for money sportscar. The 86 and brz are great for their intended purpose. Affordable, fun cars that look good and feel better. RWD is so much more fun.

    • Andrew

      exactly. Fun, affordable, stylish. Seriously, both cars are cheap enough, buy one, spend the money you saved on modding it, retrofit a turbo, and you have the best of both worlds. Most purchasers probably would be happy with the power and the cheaper price. It seems there just no pleasing some people…..

  • John23

    whats the point of having a fast car in australia the max speed limit is 110  haha ,no limit in germany 

  • Craig

     ITA, no point haven’t a top speed of 300+ kph when you can barely use 1/3 that on most AU roads without loosing your license. Yes if I had the money a nice Aston or Ferrari would be the car to have but for day-to-day transport one of these would be fantastic.

  • Matthew S

    I would still rather a Golf GTi

  • Timothy O’Donnell

    i would like to remind both of you that you are missing one important fact. that toyota had NOTHING to do with the engineering and engine part of the car. they did the design and appearance aspects. Subaru was responsible for the engine and engineering side of the car

    • Dave W

      Right… That DS-4 direct injection belongs to Toyota.

      It was also Toyota’s design to make the centre of gravity very low. To put it simply, Toyota is the brain while Subaru is the muscle.

  • OPC>86

    You want a small fast car, buy a corsa OPC.

  • AxleWack

    I have personally test driven the BRZ. Currently the BRZ come standard with the Boot spoiler and a performance exhaust which adds 7kW(This was confirmed by Subaru when I was there). Yes – Even I expected more power out of this car – But I tell you what, get into that car, test drive it and you will see that this car pushes out more than enough power for what you get! Subaru even mentioned that they are working on a Supercharger package, which could be added as an optional extra, which will not void the warranty… Perhaps this will be the STI ? Perhaps not. This is not confirmed – But if this happens, add this to this car as it is for a few K extra – It will be a beast!

  • PaulT

    I read this old debate with interest. I’ve been test driving cars recently because age is now catching up with my old Audi S2 coupe. As I had thought of trading it and my Suzuki GV3 in on one vehicle, I started with the VW Tiguan and worked my way up through the Audi SQ5 and RSQ3 to the new Porsche Macan.

    However, I concluded these SUVs do lack a bit in real off road capacity, and so, more recently, I have been considering keeping my Suzuki for off road use and buying a sports car to replace the Audi. (Who says a single bloke can’t have more than one car! 😉 )

    I drove the BRZ immediately after the 2014 WRX and found I went through my windy and hilly test route in the Adelaide Hills faster in the BRZ. Power isn’t everything! Since then I’ve driven the 86 GTS as well. They may lack power in a straight line but their performance on winding roads is brilliant.