Bleak future for Pontiac G8 in the U.S.
3 Dec, 2008
71 Comments 
While previous reports predicting the demise of the Commodore-based G8 sedan were denied by Pontiac, almost, new reports have emerged which paint a rather bleak future for the Australian export.
Since the Pontiac G8 sedan was launch in the U.S., just 13,000 have found a home, while 11,000 more unsold G8’s remain in Pontiac’s inventory - representing a 283 day supply.
Poor demand for the Commodore-derived G8 sedan in the U.S., combined with a 16 percent drop in sales closer to home mean the Adelaide assembly line is expected to lay idle for 25 days in the first quarter of 2009.
This closure is on top of the four week pause already planned over the holiday season at Holden’s manufacturing facility.
In addition to this, GM’s current financial woes could see the auto giant sever its ties altogether with Pontiac in order to secure a $25 billion low interest loan from the U.S. government.
Under a restructuring plan presented to congress, GM has outlined that it will focus on its “core brands” of Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac.
Pontiac will be shrunk to a “specialty, niche” brand as part of the current proposal - which is unlikely to include the Pontiac G8 sedan, GM President Fritz Henderson told reporters at a briefing today.
Source: LeftLaneNews and Automotive News
Location: Home / GM, Pontiac, Holden, Holden VE Commodore, Australian Car Industry News, Car News / ...
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December 3rd, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Dumb Americans wouldn’t know a good car if they tripped over it…..
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December 3rd, 2008 at 9:52 pm
I think its more like dumb american car company executives. From what ive been reading on some U.S websites Pontiac dont even advertise this car. The only way some people have found out about the G8 is on the internet through websites such as this one.
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December 3rd, 2008 at 9:54 pm
you heard it here first,
i can’t seen holden taking january off,even with the states in the doldrums.this current sale their on has nearly wiped out ALL their plant stock.on 60ths,sv6’s,ss anythings,ute’s…all gone.try getting a sportswagon!i can’t see holden dealers playing cards all january.think about it.10 large off a ss.30 large for a car(60th) that was 32(ACCLAIM) in 1994.all the holden faithfull got xmas early.pity about the trade in’s though,the cunning wholesaler dropped their going rate exactly 5 seconds after the new prices were announced.i talked to a salesmanager yesterday who’s sold holdens since 1968,and he’s never seen anything like it.if anybody has any CONSTRUCTIVE advise as you what will happen next year,spread the wisdom,i read earlier today that toyota is going up next year,at the minute the 5 door yaris is cheaper than its EVER been.petrols cheap,interest rates are diving,what happens next???
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December 3rd, 2008 at 9:56 pm
So what is selling in America ?
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December 3rd, 2008 at 10:00 pm
John……the more likely scenario is that they got over-excited and raised their expectations higher than they should have and they have finally realised that this car is just a Commodore and has all of its many faults and the word has got around. Holdens well known poor build quality and reliability dont just disappear when they are driven off the boat. There are heaps of cars just like this in America already …….its no better than any others already on the market……or maybe its just too ugly even for the Yanks because lets face it, you couldnt get an uglier front view than a VE Commodore!!!!!
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December 3rd, 2008 at 10:02 pm
GM should drop Pontiac Saab GMC and Buick and just keep Chevrolet Cadillac Holden and Opel..
Restructuring should also include: moving the design studios to Europe and Australia as we can design cars without a ruler
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December 3rd, 2008 at 10:11 pm
wheelnut,
how is it that g.m. haven’t employed you as minister for common sense?don’t know about cadillac either,give me a calais v that works 4 america,the pontiac name isn’t working…
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December 3rd, 2008 at 10:14 pm
Quote [J&H]: :….this current sale their on has nearly wiped out ALL their plant stock.on 60ths,sv6’s,ss anythings,ute’s…all gone.try getting a sportswagon!”
Have you seen the storage facility behind the Holden Factory in Elizabeth lately? it’s over 75% full because
On average a Holden commodore [Berlina Calais Sedan SS Ute Sportwagon] or Staresman rolls off the production line every 70 seconds
The reason why Holden is closing down over the new year is for periodic maintenance as well as clear some of the stock thats in the storage yards… there is so much stock waiting to be sold/delivered that they are running out of space for the cars they are/will be making from now until Dec 20th - when the factory is due to close for christmas
You can almost be guaranteed immediate delivery 2wks tops
and given that they have just dropped the prices on certain models $10k on an SS-V Ute for example [with immediate delivery] it should help clear some space by the time Holden start up again in the new year
Although I don’t expect Holden [or Ford] will ever reach the same situation Mitsubishi did and end up making 10-15 cars aday
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December 3rd, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Jekyl and Hyde what do you mean you cant see them taking january off ? THEY ARE !!! The cars are not selling and they cant keep building them for no reason. They need to sell alot of cars because they are loasing money hand over fist because they invested 1 Billion dollars on a half baked car. The only reason they sell any VE’s is that they have fleet deals locked in but the problem is they make no money on them. and they make no money on the exports either and they are selling VE so cheap here that they are making no money on them either !!! Fleet sales allow Holden to sell VE because it disguises the fact that VE is really a crap car because its only a fleet car to thrash and get rid of in a short time frame.
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December 3rd, 2008 at 10:24 pm
Conrod if the Pontiac is ugly - it’s not Hldens fault because the yanks wanted to put that god damn ugly twin nostril bonnet and grille on it..
As for reliability problems with the Holden/Commodore - show me a 10/20/30 year old American built Chevrolet Buick Oldsmobile or Cadillac that’s still running and is in better condition than a Holden/Commodore; of the same age not only mechanically [engine suspension etc] but interior and exterior that can start first time or; within 2 goes.
Look at the old cars the boys from Top Gear ended up with on their visit to the USA - says something doesn’t it?
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December 3rd, 2008 at 10:33 pm
wheelnut,
either what your seeing is allready sold orders(probably),or holden are telling some EXTREMELY BIG LIES.if your right,holden is ripping up potential sales,left,right and centre.don’t take my word for it,ring some dealers.
mr pin,
crawl back under the rock you came from.there are bigger issues here than your personal b.s.
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December 3rd, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Gudgeon Pin: if you believe that You are just like the Gudgeon Pin that allegedly/apparently caused the engine fire in the TRD Aurion when it was released… that is snapped!
More than 1/2 of the billion dollar budget for the VE went in to R&D as well as all the new robots that put the cars together.. which was done on the fly.
Even the most ardent Ford fan would have to admit that compared to previous model Commodores [which were based on the Opel Rekord] the build quality etc of the new 100% Aussie designed VE has improved significantly
As for the VE being a Crap car - The fact it got Middle East COTY a couple of years ago would suggest otherwise given that it was competing against Bentleys etc and millionaire sheiks etc aren’t known for wasting their money on things that don’t last.
If commodores were crap then surely people would have stopped buying them and Holden would have stopped building them years ago.. and it wouldn’t have taken Toyota 1/2 a century to become No1
The fact that they haven’t proves that the Commodore still meets the needs of a certain market - Large RWD Family Sedan/Wagon and Ute.. because they are practical they are reliable
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December 3rd, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Who is this Conrod twat ?
The VE ugly…. I think he needs glasses, this is best looking large car ever made in this country.
If he is ford lover this explains it, and I supoose he thinks the new FG is beautiful ? which it aint
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December 4th, 2008 at 12:14 am
Head designers in Holden IS AMERICAN… They came up with the shorter front for the new commodore with the American market in mind.
Holden is as Australian as Russle Crowe.
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December 4th, 2008 at 12:36 am
John mate your abit of hypocrite talk about conrod’s comment then you do the say the same thing about the FG.
i agree with conrod Holden is well known poor build quality and reliability. the VE has had a few recalls. the VZ just had one for airbag issues stuff like this sits in the back of buyers minds.
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December 4th, 2008 at 1:46 am
Really, Elitist? Who is this American designer you describe? Got a name?
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December 4th, 2008 at 1:46 am
When will the world wake up and realize that there is no call for cars like this right now? Don’t get me wrong, I’m a big fan of the large sedan but if people are buying them right now they at least want something with a decent badge and decent economy such as a 5 Series or an E Class.
I am seeing less and less Commodore SSs on the road and more and more Golf GTIs. General motors are so behind. If they had let Saab lead the way with technology they could have been the greenest car company in the world but no, everything just had to stay a stupid concept and now it’s getting to a point where they are almost there (the Volt) but at a very real risk of bankruptcy that could literally be in the next few weeks! It could be a very interesting new year in the cars world.
I bet the companies that come out on top in the credit crunch will be BMW (as they manage to make a full size SUV reasonably green and surpisingly economical), Peugeot/Citroen, Renault, Mini, Fiat and Suzuki. Basically the brands that make big cars economical or brands that makes small cars and lots of them with lovely little economical diesel/petrol engines. Why didn’t GM master diesel ten years ago along with everybody else?
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December 4th, 2008 at 1:53 am
Oh, John, i completely agree with your comments about Conrod and yes he does think the FG is good looking. I’ve come to the decision that he’s probably fourteen years old from the comments he’s been leaving to me in the Barina review page. No fully grown man leaves five exclamation marks at the end of their writing.
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December 4th, 2008 at 2:44 am
Simcoe originally did the sketch, Denny Mooney’s GM team in Holden bend bought out the VE.
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December 4th, 2008 at 7:04 am
This news has been around for a while, but it is still a great shame.
The GXP has been getting rave reviews on US sites like Edmonds, so it’s not that the Americans don’t like the car.
Even though Pontiac is doomed, it doesn’t mean the Commodore can’t be badged as another brand in the US - such as Chev Lumina as it is in the Middle East.
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December 4th, 2008 at 8:11 am
With the dollar so low now against the US they would be making more per car then they initially would have accounted for & could probably significantly lower the price & still make a tidy profit if they could get more people into the dealerships.
I think Holden have got the production mix slightly off we keep being told they’re building too many cars & have excess stock but I ordered a wagon in August & it still hasn’t been built & we’ll be lucky to get it for Christmas.
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December 4th, 2008 at 8:23 am
FG FALCON…..Best Large Car This award is given by all motoring groups in australia, not just a magazine. Why is it so hard for you Holden lovers to admit that the FG is so much better than the VE ? VE is only 3 years old and it has dated so much. Interior wise the VE is ten years behind in materials and ergonomics……oh and that woeful handbrake ! Mechanically it is still way behind the Falcon and always has been except when the VL had the Nissan engine in it. They still cant build a descent engine. Overly large wheel arches went out in the 1970’s and those on the VE are ugly and look dated compared to the flowing lines of the FG.
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December 4th, 2008 at 8:25 am
I was told yesterday that the american sales of any US produced car are so bad that they come straight out of the factory and go to a massive holding yard, not even going through the showroom first. I understand that you can get an 08 Mustang GT for around $30K USD. It is little wonder that they cant get sales for this car, even without going into the usual Ford v. GM reliability etc argument.
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December 4th, 2008 at 8:51 am
Its quickly becoming academic. Quote from todays New York Times:
“G.M.’s president, Frederick A. Henderson, said the company would be insolvent if it did not receive federal assistance, including an infusion of $4 billion in cash before the end of the year.
“Absent support, frankly the company simply can’t fund its operations,” Mr. Henderson said in a call with reporters.”
Get ready for Holden to be flogged!
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December 4th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Pious,
I was in the States for a couple of months in 05, 06 & 07.
During my time there I checked out Ford dealers as I was interested in a private import & you could get:
Mustang GT for US $24,000 before any deals
F350 for US$28,000 after US$12,000 factory cash back and $3,000 Gov cash
Mercury Sable/Ford Taurus for US$15,000 drive away
F-150 King Ranch (top of Range)US$27,000 after Cash Back
Also going through the paper, in general all make types including lexus, Toyota, BMW, MErcedes, Chev etc etc were all offering 0% finance on top of massive price cuts similar to what I listed above.
I was like a kid in a lolly shop!
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December 4th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Yeah, and without wanting to inflame anything, I can tell you I’d grab the ’stang before the commodore any day of the century, even if the commodore was a better car (i’ll ‘fess up to being a ford person, if I was to buy Oz [oops, started a fight there - is ford Oz???]). When I had my s60R, the guys on the forum (mostly US) were getting theirs new for around $40K USD ($100K in Oz), with good second hand ones around 2 years old coming on line for the mid $20K’s which the tuners were grabbing. The M3’s were less than $10K more than the R. I cant understand why GM would even want to try selling the cars in the US - there cant be any profit in it, as we found with the (ill-conceived) Ford Capri export concept 15 years ago or so. Govt grants, perhaps?
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December 4th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Quote [Elitist]: Head designers in Holden IS AMERICAN… They came up with the shorter front for the new commodore with the American market in mind.
The chief designer at Holden is Richard Fellazzo he also designed the Efijy. The guy who designed the VE is Peter Hughes he has been at Holden since the VT and Both of them are Australian.
For more info I suggest you read Peter Robinson’s book “Autobiography” which goes through the background of the VE Project etc.
The Pontiac grille was designed by someone at GM USA after Holden sent photos of what the VE looked like for them to use as a guide.
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December 4th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Golfie - Really, Elitist? Who is this American designer you describe? Got a name?
Elitist - Simcoe originally did the sketch, Denny Mooney’s GM team in Holden bend bought out the VE.
Mike Simcoe is an Australian designer he was the one who designed the VT and the Commo-2-Dore… the Monaro
GM CEO Bob Lutz was so impressed with Simcoes work that he promoted him to become Head of Design for the Asia Pacific region.. and then on to his current position as head of Design for GM - he’s the one who says yes or no to all GM projects
It was Peter Hughes who did the original sketches of the VE
BTW: Where is Holden Bend?
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December 4th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Thanks Wheelnut. I actually thought it was Tony Stolfo 9another Aussie), but couldn’t be bothered checking my mags at such a late hour.
It must have been late for you too, Elitist. Or maybe too early. Read your last post aloud and try again. I’m not being narky, I’m just trying to figure out what you wrote. It’s English, but not as I know it.
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December 4th, 2008 at 11:38 am
I meant to write “(another Aussie)”, seeing I’m carping about other peoples’ English.
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December 4th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Quote [Gift-ed]: This news has been around for a while, but it is still a great shame.
The GXP has been getting rave reviews on US sites like Edmonds, so it’s not that the Americans don’t like the car.
Even though Pontiac is doomed, it doesn’t mean the Commodore can’t be badged as another brand in the US - such as Chev Lumina as it is in the Middle East.
Thats exactly right - it’s not that they don’t necessarily or particularly like G8 anymore… I have read the comments on edmunds and car enthusiasts over there love it.
The reason the G8 looks to be doomed however is the fact that due to the economic crisis that Americans can’t afford to buy as many new cars as before… its affecting all makes/models.
As for the possibility of selling it as a Chev - after pontiac is no more.. it makes sense given it uses a Chevy engine etc
Yet there is also the possibility of selling it as a new Opel Rekord or something in Europe - afterall a Commodore was recently spotted doing laps at Nurgburgring….
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December 4th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Golfie - Tony Stolfo was also involved in the VE project When they were coming up with possible designs etc for the VE [given the fact they had a blank canvas to work on] the final decision came down to a choice between Peter Hughes’ and Tony Stolfos design.
Ironically: I think it was Tony Stolfo who Designed the Awesome looking HSV HRT/LE 427 VU Maloo Concept - which Peter Hughes used as inspiration for the VE Maloo [but got it so horribly wrong]
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December 4th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Every lull in the market is followed by a huge high. Americans will be the super power again and their people will spend heaps of money again. Don’t fear, the G8 will succeed………………….. eventually
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December 4th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Apart from Pontiac being one of GM’s highest-selling brands, the company has just announced the brand is going “niche” - i.e it’s NOT being killed of and therefore will have a few less models lines, with those it does keep focused on doing what Pontiac stands for
That means cars with sports attitude, with the G8 perfectly fitting that role
Pontiac needs to give the G8 a bigger push - critics & GM fanboys love the thing, but the general public need to know about it too!
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December 4th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
I agree Salesman - yet it’s to be hoped that as part of GMs restructuring [that they will need to do inorder to survive] that as well as keeping Chevrolet [and maybe even Cadillac] they also on to Holden - utilise their expertise in building and developing RWD cars.. and dump Pontiac Buick and of course Hummer.
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December 4th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
I just knew this would happen. America sneezes the world gets aids.
What we need and i know this is a BIG stretch but its just an idea/thought, what we need is a group of companies or group of richies for that matter (aussie only ofcourse) to buy back holden from GM, make it a truly 1 and only Australian car. I know its a stretch but it would be a far better decision for us to have Holden back in our hands. Come on Packer get off your fat lazy obese Platinum spoon fed ass and puts some bucks into Holden.
hehe :)
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December 4th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
What you mean by buy back Holden has always been GM’s they just used an Australian name to make us feel special & since when has Jamie Packer been obese?
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December 4th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
The G8 suffers from a lack of exosure. There is no or little advertising (no wonder with the state of GM at the moment).
As far as Holdens time off in January, they are only 8 working days.
Wheelnut, your right there is a lot of plant stock, but remember that yard also stock the G8’s, Middle East, and Korean export (abiet temporary).
I have heard that Holdens deals are moving stock alittle quicker.
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December 4th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
All this vitriol about Americans, when it’s their input that keeps their Australian arms alive. Love to see what happens to GMH and FA when GM and Ford pull out of Oz.
Boneheads on this blog don’t seem to realise there are great alternatives in the $30K to $50K mark in the USA.
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December 4th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Motorhead - Yes GM own Holden as they have done since the 1930s However “Holden” has been in business; [in one form or another] for some 80 odd years before GM got involved… here is a brief history for you covering that period [Holden Heritage]
Holden was established in Adelaide Australia by Mr James Alexander Holden back in the 1850s back then it was known as Holden Saddlery as they made a range of saddles and other equine products.
Then in the early 1900s Holden entered the Automotive Iindustry and started building motor bodies.. Assembling Chev Cadillac and other American designed bodies on to custom made chassis the company name then changed to Holden Motor Body builders
It wasn’t until the early 1930-40s that GM got ivolved and helped Holden develop what is commonly known as Australias First Car the FX Sedan - the company name then changed yet again to General Motors Holden Limited
Infact General Motors didn’t start business until 1910 [thats 60 years after Holden]…. yet they haven’t/don’t actually made/make cars with a “GM” badge they simply “merge” with existing automobile manufacturers such as Chevrolet Cadillac Buick and of course Holden they then “assume” management operations of the business
Holden was established here and GM kept the name inorder maintain familiarity/popularity with customers.
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December 4th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
CB Ford and GM are more likely to pull out of the USA.
Because in times of trouble you go back to square one and focus on what you’re good at - your strengths..
Holdens Strengths are in there experience in building Medium/Large RWD cars as is Ford Australias..
Opels strengths are in their experience in building Small/Medium FWD cars as is Ford Europe/UK..
Where exactly are Ford US and GMs Strengths? The only thing they’re good at is making half a-r-s-ed decisions that end up costing s–tloads of money
A couple of months ago I read an online article in an American Newspaper [I think it was the Washington post] which said that most people between the ages of 20-40 can expect to see the end of the automotive industry in the USA before the time they retire….
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December 4th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Wheelnut I know that’s the warm & fuzzy version but the reality is GM bought an Australian name to bung on their cars.
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December 4th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
Wheelnut Says:
“CB Ford and GM are more likely to pull out of the USA.”
Wheelnut, hope you realize that the U.S government is considering giving financial aid to GM, and FORD primarily to save U.S based jobs.
In order to save their face in the U.S, gm would kill off holden in a heartbeat!! Also let’s not pretend that Holden is making them any money either, didn’t they make another multi milion dollar loss this year??!!
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December 4th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
They US governmrent is considering giving Ford and GM financial assistance….
But if they are unable to provide sufficient financial assistance to Ford and GM given that they are fighting/losing a battle in the middle east with no immediate end in site.. not to mention the multi million dollar bail out of their financial institutions etc it could well be that GM and Ford decide to pull out of the US.
Therefore; the scenario that I outlined previously - that Ford and GM relocate operations to Australia and Europe isn’t as far fetched as you might think.
I’m sure the US govt will do what they can to try and save GM and Ford however they had a hard time getting the last bailout package through parliament.
The billions of dollars that they gave the banks etc will eventually help others areas of the economy including GM and Ford…. if they inject more or too much money into the economy they will affect not only the value of the dollar but also interest rates and inflation.. making the situation worse than it is ATM.
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December 4th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Even some economists in the US have said that because of Even some economists in the US have said that because of the ignorant arrogant attitudes and stupid half arsed decisions made by the “Old Farts” at GM and Ford in Detroit they would need enough money to see them through for at least the next 5 years.. no “band aid” solutions otherewise it would just be prolonging the inevitable
and inorder to stay in business [GM CEO Bob Lutz at least] has indicated that he would strongly consider moving Overseas.. he is a big fan of Holden and what we can do here.
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December 4th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Oh and Tomas dont go too far,Im looking forward to the next argument .Paul Maric is currently test driving the Is-iF {Lexus attempt to beat the M3}and will be up shortly I hope,so Ill be waiting for reply and support for Toyota from you then we hope!
This is an argument Ive been waiting for all year !
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December 4th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Motorhead isn;t that what I said in my last sentence:
“Holden was established here and GM kept the name inorder maintain familiarity/popularity with customers.”
I just gave you some background info on both Holden and GM.
Because you like a number of others on this site seem to think that Holden belonged to GM from day one
Holden was around long before GM - They just diversified their products and the industries they were in to change withthe times and meet public demand etc…. GM took them over
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December 4th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Bavarian Missile, What are you on about?
I haven’t lost the argument, and No Gm Holden isn’t an Australian company… You guys are yet to provide a valid counter argument!!! And I suggest you read up on the Car advice’s code of conduct!! There is no point in me responding to muppets who have no points, just personal insults!!
As for Toyota in the U.S, who cares?? Gm and Ford would love to be in the same position Toyota is in!! Anyway, you got to realize not everyone is a brand limited tunneled vision fanatic!!!
As for Lexus IS-F vs m3, who cares x2?!! Don’t assume I would straight away take the Lexus, not everybody on here has badge allegiance!!
Also now that you have brought up lexus, note that Ford’s CEO Alan Mulally owns a Lexus LS, and has gone on the record describing it as the “finest car in the world”!!!
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December 4th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
OK Tomas In relation to the HSV W427; let me put it in as simple terms as I can.
The whole thing started because Wookie asked how can the HSV W427 be called an Australian Supercar…
I replied that its an Australian Supercar because its made in Australia
You then said its not Australian because GM isnt on the ASX
I then said that the Car is made in Australia by Holden a Car Manufacturer that was Established in Australia [Long before GM] whereas GM isn’t a Car manufacturer and to prove this I asked you to show me a car that was sold as and actually wears a GM badge.
Yes - GM-Holden is an American owned company and HSV is owned by Tom Walkinshaw.. I know that I realise that I admit that.
However; the HSV VE W-427 is Australian Made… as it’s assembled here in Elizabeth SA [using various components sourced from here and overseas] - another point which I admitted.
Because incase you didn’t notice Tomas the article was about the Car Not the Company.. they are two seperate entities one is physical the other financial.
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December 4th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
hahaha ,Tomas you left the last argument because you lost it!
You deviated around the dumb a r s e comment you made about ASX the rest of the argument,give it up,Holden is Australian and you are yet to provide real evidence to say otherwise! Your opinion doesnt count ,when will some of you learn.
CA code of conduct,your the name caller not me babe! You respond with name calling as did Dingo when your wrong!!!!!!!!
So you dont care Toyota are doing it hard also in the USA ? Cool I guess you wont be defending them will you!!!!!!
I dont have tunnel vision ,I am willing to support most makes where I see appeal. You cant see any good in either of the Australian manufacturers except for the Jap version !
So you dont care about the IS-iF ???????? So you telling me you havent had arguments with me on Lexus and BMW before….hahaha shall I dig those previous blogs up for you as your memory seems to be fading at such a young age!
So you wont respond to the Lexus blog………we will see ! I know you wouldnt take the M3,Pauls not comparing the M3 against it anyway,Car Advice havent got their hands on one as far as I know to test one!
Who cares what CEOs drive ?????? Let alone the one from Ford,seems hes not making great decisions anywhere does it!
Now off to Autoblog to bring up how bad all car manufacturers are doing there!!!!!!!!!!!! Ill be back !
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December 4th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Quote [Tomas79]: Also now that you have brought up lexus, note that Ford’s CEO Alan Mulally owns a Lexus LS, and has gone on the record describing it as the “finest car in the world”!!!
Tomas that isn’t really saying mmuch is it because after having to spend so many years driving crappty tacky Crown Victorias; Taurus; and the like anything including the most basic Fiat Punto could be described [by an American]as being the finest car in the world.
As proven by the fact that sales in the USA of Subarus Mazdas and other imported cars are continually increasing whilst US built Fords are gradually declining.
And even though you dislike the build quality features & specifications etc of our locally built cars.. compared to The US equivalents the Falcon and Commodore would also be
described as a leap forward a step up an upgrade.
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December 4th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Autoblog say………
“Management bonuses will be slashed 10 percent at Toyota as a result of the global economic slowdown. About 5,000 managers will take cuts as the Japanese automaker reels from falling global sales that are hitting its local market hard. Toyota vehicle sales in Japan dropped 27 percent in November (excluding 660cc minivehicles) and Lexus sales dipped 24 percent — mirroring the same sales issues that both brands are having in the United States. As a result, the Japanse Juggernaut will halt production for two days on one of the Tahara production lines manufacturing the Lexus LS, GS and IS models, which will prevent about 5,000 luxury cars from being built, and idle another factory in southern Japan for two days, as well. Toyota is also expected to announce lower sales and production estimates at its year-end press conference that happens at the end of this month. That news will follow the 1 trillion yen ($10.7 billion) yanked just last month from its annual operating profit forecast.
mmmmmmm Tomas ,seems to me the bigger ones do fall harder . Things are going to get worse for them before they get better,it may affect Holden in this country to lose some sales but no where as much as it affects Toyota in their largest market,the USA .
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December 4th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
Bavarian Missile, and Wheelnut, you have spammed this this article with off topic rubbish, and still not provided me with a single valid argument!! Why you guys bother??!
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December 4th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
Both Ford and GM would much prefer having to cut BONUSES and have 2 days downtime (as opposed to a month), and a 10 billion drop in PROFITS.
Hey, Toyota aren’t losing money.
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December 5th, 2008 at 9:41 am
Sorry Wheelnut, But U.S owned Holden, which imports most of it’s vehicles from Korea, and rest of the world, and locally assembles commodores from Korean parts and Chinese metal, is no more Australian, then IKEA furniture you brought home, and assembled yourself.
But the Holden fanatics will never see it…
All your points try to drag the argument elsewhere…
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December 5th, 2008 at 9:48 am
On this topic and the W427 we have provided a number of valid points not only to back up our opinion but to provem that the Commodore is Australian made.
However; None are as blind as those who don’t wantr to see… and none are as deaf as those who don’t want to hear.
You still believe that the Commodore [and the Falcon] are made in America … if that’s the case whats the huge grey building on the Phillip Highway in Elizabeth SA full of robots panels seats brakes diffs suspension and other components…and cars which look exactly the same as a VE Commodore rolling out the back door?…. A Mirage.
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December 5th, 2008 at 9:49 am
The majority of my comments on this article are on topic it wasn’t until you came on here claiming that you had won the arguemnent we were having on the W-427 that I temporarily went off to pic to try and refresh your memory as to what both you and I said…. all my comments were to try and show you tha the VE Commodore is Australian Made despite being owned by a Foreign company.
But the article like this one wasn’t about Holden or GM [the company] but about the VE Commodore [the car] on which the W427 is based.
On Topic - GM plans to make Pontiac a Niche brand. isn’t Pontiac a Niche brand already? given that Niche brands usually don’t sell that many cars infact they would be lucky to sell more than 10 a month….. Pontiac is already there isn’t it?
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December 5th, 2008 at 9:58 am
Wheelnut, with lies such as this, i don’t think i will bother responding to anymore of your comments…. You have no credibility, so where is the point?!
You know well it was Bavarian missile that brought the W427 into this discussion, and made claims about me losing the argument! Offcourse she broke the code of conduct, and her comment was deleted!!
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December 5th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Quote [Tomas]: ” Sorry Wheelnut, But U.S owned Holden, hich imports most of it’s vehicles from Korea, and rest of the world, and LOCALLY ASSEMBLES COMMODORES….”
Finally you understand what I was getting at you finally admit it Tomas.. The Commodore is Locally Assembled the Cmmodore is Australian Made.. see it wasn’t that hard was it?
The Commodore is assembled/made here using parts sourced from both here and overseas… therefore; its an Austrralian made car. Because until holden bolts/welds the various components together and wires it all up like the ecu engine gearbox diff beakes suspension and body panels etc each component individual is useless as it cannot perform its intended function nor is there anything for it to do - nothing to power/drive it and nothing for it to power/drive… until then they are just lumps of metal
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December 5th, 2008 at 10:11 am
Question Tomas Where is the factory located wheere the VE Commodore is made that is where are the various components put together - inorder to build/create a car which is what each individual part is designed to do?
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December 5th, 2008 at 10:19 am
Wheelnut, Assembled in australia, by a foreign owned company, from foreign made parts does not mean equal Australian made!! Just think of the IKEA furniture example!! It would not receive the “Australian Made” symbol (Yellow kangaroo in a green triangle)!!
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December 5th, 2008 at 11:43 am
But the company that owns the rights to the Australian Made Logo [Yellow kangaroo in a Green Triangle] says that the VE Commodore is Australain Made - they are the ones who gave me the definition as to what determines whether or not a particular product is Australian made and therefore elligible to display the Australian Made Logo [Yellow kangaroo in a Green Triangle]..
As I said before the definition basically says a product is regarded as being Australian Made if it is made, procuced or assembled here to the point where it is a sale able item or a finished product.
Therefore the commodore meets the Australian Made criteria
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December 5th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
jesus, do you guys ever stfu?
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December 5th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Tomas sick of your flybys………..my comment is under moderation cause you reported it !Cant handle the heat get out of the kitchen.
Retort as much as you like Tomas but Holden is Australian so get the F..k over it!
I will repeat myself from last night Tomas
““Management bonuses will be slashed 10 percent at Toyota as a result of the global economic slowdown. About 5,000 managers will take cuts as the Japanese automaker reels from falling global sales that are hitting its local market hard. Toyota vehicle sales in Japan dropped 27 percent in November (excluding 660cc minivehicles) and Lexus sales dipped 24 percent — mirroring the same sales issues that both brands are having in the United States. As a result, the Japanse Juggernaut will halt production for two days on one of the Tahara production lines manufacturing the Lexus LS, GS and IS models, which will prevent about 5,000 luxury cars from being built, and idle another factory in southern Japan for two days, as well. Toyota is also expected to announce lower sales and production estimates at its year-end press conference that happens at the end of this month. That news will follow the 1 trillion yen ($10.7 billion) yanked just last month from its annual operating profit forecast.
Everyone is in the crap in America including Toyota……..so stop putting the boots into Holden.
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December 5th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Tomas, Wheelnut is right regarding Holden Commodores being “made in Australia”. Though Wheelnut, it’s not a company that owns those australian made logo’s as far as I know.
However it would probably be illegal to claim the commodore is a “product of australia”.
www . austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/tpa1974149/s65ab.html
www . austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/tpa1974149/s65ac.html
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December 5th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
The doomsday clock for Holden is only a few seconds away from Midnight…
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December 5th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
In October, Pontiac sold just over 1,000 G8s in the US. By comparison, Toyota sold over 30,000 Camrys. Even Ford’s ancient Crown Victoria managed 3,000 sales, while Lincoln’s equally old Town Car even beat the G8. Another GM flop was the Astra, which managed only a little over 500 units, compared to 27,000 Corollas.
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December 5th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Mark get it straight the G8 is not a flop in the US the economy is! How many Camrys were Toyota counting on selling a lot more than they did anyway ! The G8 was always going to fill a void in their market not take over one. Your bringing up Toyota daily drivers the people I know that own these in the states are car lovers . Shall I message them and ask them to make a comment on your last silly one!
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December 12th, 2008 at 3:35 am
Just bought a G8 GT about three weeks ago, and the car is very well received over here in the states. Everyone loves my new car. The problem? No one knows it exists. It fills a niche market which up till recently has been filled by BMW’s, Mecedes, and the Dodge Charger. The G8 is thoughsands less then the German cars, and out performs the Charger R/T in just about every respect. Ford has no equivalent car for sale in the US.
If Pontiac marketed them better, had more in stock, and the general auto market didn’t suck so bad right now, the G8’s would be a huge hit. The dealer I went to had them flying out the door with the Red Tag Sale GM was running.
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December 12th, 2008 at 7:21 am
Okay, scary, I just went to the Holden Website and priced a Holden Commodore with the same equipment as my G8. The Commodore came out to $63,831, which is about $43,000 (US) at the present exchange rate. The G8 only cost me $30,000 (US). Shouldn’t it cost more to ship a car across the Pacific and sell it in the US than to sell it at home in Australia? Is there some reason why cars cost 30% more in Australia? Really high taxes or something?
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December 12th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Mr American G8 buyer,I think the main problem is that GM sells the Commodore as a Pontiac - a brand which [from what I’ve read] has gradually lost the reputation for building sdports cars to one that builds more generic sedans.
However; if they sold it as something with more exposure a better reputation etc such as a Chevrolet more people will buy them. They could sell it as either the new Impala or Malibu or even bring back the Beretta name
It makes sense really given that the Commodore is powered by a Chevrolet/Corvette V8. It’s sold as a Chev in the Middle East and the Sheiks love em
Although given that GMs financial problems and are now in a restructuring/streamlining process I think GM is likely to get rid of Pontiac [as well as Buick] and keep the more widely known brands such as Chevrolet and Cadillac
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