by Matt Brogan

The Alloytec V6 engine powering Holden’s Commodore Omega and Berlina models has received an upgrade this month that sees fuel savings of up to 0.4 litres per 100 kilometres for petrol models and an impressive 1.3 litres per 100 kilometres for dual-fuel variants.

Emissions have therefore also decreased assisting the petrol variants listed to achieve the highest Green Vehicle Guide noxious emissions score possible being 8.5 points out of 10 (excludes hybrid electric vehicles). The emission levels meet Euro VI certification, a standard which does not come into effect in Europe until 2014.

 “The upgrade to this V6 engine was to enable improved fuel economy and reduced emissions without sacrificing real world performance,” GM Holden Director of Powertrain, Ernie Tamburrini said.

To clarify, fuel consumption of the petrol Commodore sedan is reduced by 0.2 litres per 100 kilometres with Ute and Sportwagon models down by 0.4 litres per 100 kilometres.

Dual Fuel (LPG) models also see an improve in economy now delivering returns of 14.2 litres per 100km. The vehicle was also recently reduced some $1500.

Private buyers are also eligible for the $2000 government rebate here, meaning the net cost of an LPG Ute would only be $1400 more than its petrol equivalent and only $400 more for the LPG sedan.

calais_wagon.jpg

The monthly LPG conversion rate will increase in November to meet growing demand. The petrol engine in the Omega and Berlina models delivers peak power of 175kW at 6500rpm and peak torque of 325Nm at 2400rpm and is matched with a four-speed automatic transmission. The upgraded Alloytec V6 engine will be standard on all Omega and Berlina Commodore, Sportwagon and Ute variants from November production.

NB: SS-V Ute & Calais Sportwagon shown for illustrative purposes only.




  • Falcodore

    Reduced power usually does = reduced fuel consumption, it took holden engineers how long to figure that out?
    Now what they really need to work on is the harshness of the V6 motor, they need to make it smoother and give it better acoustics. The thing sounds like its gonna spit the baffles out under load!

  • Carl

    How about getting rid of that old 4 speed clunker for a decent 5 or god forbid 6 speed??? That would give it much bigger fuel economy than a pathetic 0.2!!

  • Captain Mainwaring

    Agree with Falcodore – for a new-generation engine this thing is remarkably unrefined.
    Also, while any economy improvement is welcome, this doesn’t exactly mean that the big-six market is going to bounce back in a hurry.

  • http://integra LSD

    What a joke………..lowering power may increase fuel consumtion too……..less power when needed means you push the throttle harder and for longer……the amount of fuel that you MAY save is so small its hardly worth wasting the space to tell us all about it !! Why dont they just build a descent engine ? for a so called new engine this thing seems way behind anything else in its class…..the FG 6 puts out 190kw and bags more torque and is alot more fuel efficient. Is this the only idea Holden engineers could come up with ?

  • http://proton SamR

    Too little to late, stop making Dinosaurs Holden

  • Falcodore

    Good point Carl, the whole drivetrain seems to be the only thing stopping the commodore from being a great drive. Alround vision needs to be improved as well but thats another story.
    Funny the yanks get the better drivetrain but it sounds like thats will be rectified soon.

  • http://none Ra

    @ SamR – thats all they know :*(

    It’s as pathetic as thier recent adds.
    “Look what were doing about rising fuel costs”.

  • Frenchie

    If the Falcon so good why is it not selling?

    I admit the fuel effiecency gain is small, but least its an improvement. As for the power reduction “5kw” thats no big deal to the average driver.

    The big deal about this story is that the emmission score is improved.

    Seems to me some people are worried about holdens base model variants out selling other model vehicles.

  • Tom

    The engine is perfectly refined, most of you are just repeating magazine reviews

    What it does need though is a 5 speed with an optional 6 speed gearbox

    i can’t believe holden are playing around with the ecu with subpar hardware like that!

    And give us our 225kw direct injection SV6!!

  • Sunny

    hahaha… holden as usual.

    It is better transmissions and less weight make fuel economy better.

    If euro brands start thinking like holden we will be still stuck with carburator based engines.

    Holden is one of the worst brands I have seen.

  • t

    the commodore has outsold the facon for a decade.

    doesnt mean its a better car! All the magazines and reviews allways put the respective update falcon on top.

    but aussie bogans wont drive a ford!!

    Toyotas aurion has MORE POWER than the holden and uses LESS FUEL…

    fords falcon ( which in 6cyl guise, has won EVERY comparo of the 2 cars ive read ) is MORE POWERFUL and uses LESS FUEL.

    why should holden stop giving us dinosaurs?

    WE BUY THEM DONT WE?????

  • t

    now if they were really concerned.

    they would pull 30kw out of the v8……

    haha yeah sure they are concerned!!

  • Rob

    Holden = Epic Fail

  • Devil666

    Wow the bitching begins early today!

    PoisonEagle, are you high? It sounded like you are trying to make a sentence using a few particular words but what came out was slightly less coherent than what you were after….

    I agree with Tom, time to get off your arse and give us the damn DFI V6, GM Holden!

  • trackdaze

    & they didnt even pump the tyres up! When they changed from the VZ-VE the single biggest contributor was the fact they put 36psi in the tyres.

    Bin the 4spd clunker.

    In the old carby days less power usually meant less fuel. That’s not neccessarily the case these days. Generally speaking the more “efficient” a powerplant is the more power it will make.

  • Captain Mainwaring

    Tom, if you think this engine is refined you must use a tractor as you daily transport. It’s the coarsest six-cylinder engine on the market and if it was refined why would the magazine reviews say it isn’t?

  • http://www.littlepixiegifts.com.au Gift-Ed

    Whilst I agree with all the sentiment about the V6 not being up to standard and the need for a modern gearbox, there is a small amount of sense with this move.

    The changes are aimed at the LPG version, not the minor results of the petrol engine. Holden are clearly going aggressively at the fleet markets with the LPG model which now has considerable saving advantages over the LPG Falcon.

  • technofreak

    WOW! thats a huge reduction in fuel economy!! OMG! I must have one!

    NOT! pfft!

  • BIG JIM

    Reducing power and torque pfft! Holdens marketing department will spin that into a big positive. It will further affect acceleration and overtaking ability, as others have said they could have acheived the same or a better result with a decent transmission. Baffles me why the more economical falcon with 195kw and 395nm doesnt sell better. Aurion even does a more econmical 200kw and 336nm.

  • Andrew M

    LSD,
    for the record the FG6 puts out 195kw

    Tom,
    ive driven the SS, SV6, XR6 and XR8 all with in an hour of each other.
    the 6cyl holden powerplant IS unrefined.
    you have to absolutely rev its ring off to get it moving, and when its revving, it sounds like its about to blow.

    Oh, and that was a 6 speed SV6

    Gift-Ed,
    considerable savings over the E-Gas how??
    the consumption drop on the LPG commodore now brings it to just below the falcons LPG consumption which was in the first place lower than the commys.

    also the commodore asks $2400 extra for the LPG, but the falcon only asks $1100

    any LPG option will save you a bucket.
    LPG is the only alternative fuel option proven to actually save you in the pocket over your ownership stint.

    now what we need is a dedicated LPG commodore, and a SVI LPG falcon.
    apparently at the start of next year ford is putting the SVI system in
    ABOUT BLOODY TIME

  • reality

    I was talking to some car industry people and one of the topics discussed was how Holden would be able to comply with the Euro 4 emission standard to be imposed on all new petrol vehicles from 2010. Maybe this is how they start gearing (no pun intended) up to it?

  • http://www.littlepixiegifts.com.au Gift-Ed

    Andrew M

    The LPG Commodore was reduce by $1500 in April. The fuel consumption for the LPG Commodore is 14.2l/100km vs Falcon LPG 14.9l/100km.

    I’m not saying its a good move, just looking for the logic behind it, and it is obviously a ploy to further attract the fleet market, particularly those thinking of downsizing to Camry’s.

  • Tom

    Captain Mainwaring, i have an ecotec hahah

    every drive of a alloytec is just bliss.

  • Reckless1

    As usual, the numnuts are spewing forth rubbish.

    The key to these changes is this

    “The emission levels meet Euro VI certification, a standard which does not come into effect in Europe until 2014.”

    Read it again, and feel free to think what it means for a manufacturer to already be meeting Euro VI.

  • Frenchie

    Holden can’t be doing too much wrong. There is a 4 month wait for a LPG/dual fuel commodore.

  • Frenchie

    I’m waiting on LPGLI. It is said to give as good economy as petrol and more power than PULP.

  • realcars

    4 speed auto is a bit disappointing but then again most Makers don’t play all their cards at once.

    ss sedans and sports wagon some of the best looking vehicles on the road at present IMO.

    Versatility of dual fuel with similiar power/economy and super low emissions is a winner.

    Nice looking roomy sedan with the running costs of a Yaris has got to be a winner.Actually a car one would be proud to own.

  • Wheelnut

    Quote [T}: the commodore has outsold the facon for a decade.

    doesn’t mean its a better car! All the magazines and reviews always put the respective update falcon on top.

    Not Always…. I I seem to recall during the VT-VX AU-BF days In terms of the V8s – the Holden/HSVs were still ajudged to be better than the Ford/FPVs and that the rival Falcon had a fair way to go inorder to beat the Commodore. Although over the years the Falcon has gradually closed the gap

    Whilst the 6 Cylinder Falcons are better than the Holdens – although it will be interesting to see how the next generation Commodore goes against the XR6 Turbo and F6 when its released with the new Direct Injection Twin Turbo Optimised V6 in a couple of years

  • realcars

    If Alloy tech is anything like the ecotech u will never kill it.LOL

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Geepers you lot never change…..get over your loyalties as your desperate and clutching at gibberish to discredit the other. So diehard set in stone tunnel vision…..here is a tip. Support cars that are ahead of pack and stylish as……….as you lot make for drab reading like watching paint dry! Serious get over your car loyalty!

  • realcars

    VE range is stylish as NM.Gee who got out of the wrong side this morning?LOL

  • realcars

    Gotta always try to at least shine some positive light on any car built and designed by Australians for Australians and this recent announcement is all good!

  • Sam

    Maybe they should swap notes with Toyota. Doesn’t the engine in the Aurion produce more power with less fuel. Plus the engine is silken smooth and it has a 6 speed auto. Admittedly, it’s FWD and its driving dynamics let it down, but they could certainly teach Holden a few things about refinement of engine and drive train.

  • silky

    They drooped the power to improve efficiency, oh the science grads at Holden :) Whilst there at it, perhaps they could spend another billion dollars desinging a front end that complies with minimal frontal offset standards. That is, the reason the VE can NEVER get a 5 star safety rating. Sure its a nice looking car, you can do that when you put form over function :)

    Golfswein are you still about?

  • silky

    Sam to be fair the Aurion has Lexus to lend it a hand in that regard.

  • realcars

    Suppose at this price point makers like Holden and Toyota don’t offer more than they have to. While the Commodore is a top seller refinement and lack of cogs will remain I suspect.

    If Toyota improves dynamics or makes an AWD or RWD Aurion then Holden will be forced to keep up to retain sales leadership for the class.

    Ford and Holden must be greatful that Toyota haven’t launched a large RWD on the Aussie market RECENTLY.

  • silky

    Realcars Toyota wont make an awd or rwd vehcile, the camry/aurion combo sells okay, and besides, wont awd/rwd reduce fuel efficiency? The aurion sells on drive Train the VE and Falcon on handling, people will pick what works for them. Actually the falcon is the pick of the bunch and ticks about every box, buy a falcon :)

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    REALCARS………your come is irrelevant on me. Whats true is what I said. Maybe you will shock me and show some depth and nopt biase! Be a car enthusiast and not a diehard one car lover!

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    typo…….your comment is irrelevant on me.

    PS…..VE looks hot from side and front from side. Unlike Falcon which has its genes to every model the Commodore looks nothing like its previous model (especially from rear and side). Thankfully the public dont think like you and thus they buy a cool looker in VE. I do actually like the Falcon but its too same at rear tailights and headlights on front and is not a bolder new look away from predecessor as VE is with its previous Commodore.

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Thats why old is not new…..its just rehashed and public see it.

  • O

    how is putting form over function.Even hyundais can get 5 stars now.the mondeo has 5 stars.ITs justs lazy holden it would be cheaper to just order in 6 speed autos instead of 4 5 and 6 as the bigger order would mean more discounts.Holden only ever does what is has to do to stay with the game it never goes ahead

  • George

    I will never buy a Ford or a Holden, but when i drove a new Falcon it felt amazing! It feels classy too yet the Commodore looks a $2 matchbox.
    In terms of fuel economy, Holden has gone a bad way about things.
    They spent a billion in development, where did the allocation of that money go into the engine?

  • Frosty

    The direct injection on the upper model and the 5 and 6 speed gearbox both auto and manual for the base models will be coming out with the VF which is due inside the next 12 months. You don’t have to take my word for it but if I was you I would be placing money on it. There are going to be even more changes over the next 12 months. Put it this way if Holden did it all in one go there would be nothing to look forward to in a major update. Turbo Diesel will also come out with VF. Next generation Commodore due in 2012 will come with even more nice surprise including Hybrid motor options. With Ford in around 2012 expect to see FWD U.S. based large car. Put money on these things happening now before it becomes more widely known.

  • Frosty

    In regard to 5 stars, If Ancrap did the full test on the Commodore now instead of relying on 2006 figures you can rest assure the Commodore will be 5 stars. They based their previous findings on the Volumn selling model the Omega in 2006 guise, not 2008 guise like the Falcon.

  • Captain Mainwaring

    Tom, you need to get away from your ecotec/alloytec and experience a properly-designed, smooth V6. Like a Maxima, Aurion or Accord. Or even a 380 for that matter. They all make the alloytec feel like it’s full of nails.

  • silky

    frosty, the VE can NEVER get a 5 star rating, its front doesnt meet minimum standards..get it. Still want to put money on it? Its design is flawed from that perspective, it will cost another billion to fix it. Fill it up with 20 airbags, it can NEVER get 5 stars. Nor will the VF unless they do some major engineering. And they wont be doing that.

  • silky

    and as Holden is losing money hand over fist, I would suggest that any improvemnts are going to be pretty basic. This very post subject provides an example of this fact….

  • realcars

    NM the VE looks good. I have already said that. We are in agreement.

    U are cranky today!

    It’s a wonder the buying public hasn’t rebelled against the Alloy tech if it is a thrashy motor i.e produces torque and power higher in the rev range as Falcodores in general have been popular for their bottom end torque and lazy easy power up until now.

  • Frenchie

    Silky, regarding 5 star rating the Omega misses out because the it did not have curtain airbags standard at the time of test.

    If you talking about pedestrian rating yes the FG ford beats the Omega by one star. Ford 2/4 Holden 1/4.

    Anyway this has nothing to do with improving economy or emissions.

  • Frontman

    Something everyone is overlooking….
    In Qld the Government has put parimeters of CO2 & L/100km on it’s fleet. Hence there are (AFAIK) NO FG marked Police cars, and Aurion is the only 6 cyl available if you can prove you need a 6 cyl.
    The way I see it is that this move will probably put the VE into those brackets. I realise that it is all crap as the Aurion doesn’t really return better figures than the others when driven in company of (that’s not a bash just a comment) but because of the annomalies of ADR 81/01 it can claim the same figures as the 4 cyl Camry. Now VE can do likewise.

  • silky

    “Commodore scored just 11.45 points in the same test – meaning it has fallen below the 12.5-point minimum score required by ANCAP to be eligible for five stars overall.”

    No Frenchie, it cannot recieve 5 stars ever, it does not meet minimum frontal standards…did you read the article posted? Nothing to do with airbags, wack 20 airbags in the VE it can still never qulify for a 5 star rating.

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Not cranky…………just when look on here is same old same old and really heaps of diehards bending info to suit there love of one car maker. Thats all mate……is tiring as overtones are what I state cobber!

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Back on song………..love the Sportswagon and only hiccup is front is on too many Commodores and should be a tad redsigned maybe with new lights, grille and bonnet. Its one hot looker and makes the Falcon ute seem like a true dinosaur!

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    typo……..FALCON WAGON

  • Wheelnut

    NM – I think the Sportwagon is pretty cool too much better than the 300C.. Infact I was just saying to Bavarian Missile that it would look even better if Holden decided to turn the Sportwagon into a the new Sandman – simply weld the doors shut and a panel to cover the windows

    BTW: Did you like the front air dam on the Coupe 60? because that’s what the new “updated” Commodores are expected to have particularly the SV6 and SS.

  • Wheelnut

    Declining Sales….?
    Commodore is close to regaining the title as Australia’s Number 1 Passenger Car back from Corolla for 2008.. Thanks mainly to the Ute and Sportwagon
    Approx 2/3 of all VE Commodores sold are a V8. Approx
    1/3 of all VE Commodores sold is a Ute [usually an SS].

    There is a 2-3 month waiting list for HSV’s and….
    I have never seen a Clubsport Cop Car or Rep Runabout

    As for the Koreans being the main Threat to Toyota…
    I would keep an eye on Mazda as they have steadily increased sales across their range particularly with the new Mazda 6 [which is way better than the Camry in terms of features value for money etc] and the CX7s..
    As a result have gradually made their way up the sales ladder – I believe they are currently 4-5th whereas they started the year in 8-9th

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Spot on Wheelnut; the wagon would look cooooool as you say. But gotta change the front end as too Commodore-ey and rest of car aside from front is nothing like a Commodore!

  • silky

    WHEELNUT number 1 selling car maybe, but over 100% behind Toyota in terms of market value, 7 years ago Holden had 12% of the oz market compared to toyo’s 10%. Sold about 7000 commies a month then, now look at it. Still only holds about 12% of market share which has doubled.

    Agree with you on Mazda tho, they will be the next company to knock Holden off in OZ. Followed by the Koreans within 5 years.

    Lets not go into fleets, you know what the % is for the commie, stop living in denial and wake up and smell the roses.

  • silky

    BTW, its a station wagon, holden call it a sportwagon as they know their demographic all to well :)

  • Wheelnut

    Holden are 100% behind Toyota in terms of Market Value….?

    If that’s the case then why were Toyota forced to reduce the price of the “Game Changing” TRD Aurion [2-3 times]?

    I mean if the Aurion is such a superior car compared to the Holden or Ford; then surely regardless of price not to mention the engine fire.. There would still be enough people wanting to buy the TRD for Toyota to justify the premium price.

    Yet [as I said] there is a 2-3 month wait for an HSV or FPV…. which when you think about it would be another reason for people to order a TRD instead; as there are so many TRDs in dealerships and holding yards that customers would have immediate delivery… but unfortunately not …. People still want an HSV [same applies to the Hilux v Maloo]

    Which means that there are more people who believe that HSV have done more than TRD to differentiate it from the base model inorder to justify the premium price and therefore the HSV is better value for money

  • Wheelnut

    I realise that the HSV Clubsport/Maloo is in a different market to the TRD Aurion/Hilux.. not to mention that ones a RWD and the others a FWD sedan or ones a Utility and the others a Pick Up

    However; despite the fact; they are cars made by the Performance Divisions of both Toyota and Holden and both are based on the family sized sedan/ute from the respective companies

    I guess it just goes to show how much more you can do to a Holden than you can to a Toyota.

  • Wheelnut

    Have you ever thought that the reason Holden have called the Sportwagon a Sportwagon; is because its a Sports oriented Wagon? …. In the same way that a Coupe-Cabriolet is a Coupe with a Cabriolet style roof

  • Wheelnut

    Sure this may be seen as a move by Holden to appear to be more green.

    Yet what about Toyota and the Prius? people who buy the Prius do so in the belief that its an environmentally friendly mode of transport yet don’t realise the negative impact the disposal of the cars battery packs can/will have on the environment in the future

    Same applies to those new energy saving light bulbs – which are full of toxic mercury?….

    It’s a CON thing is Toyota know most people are are just concerned about the here and now.. not to mention their image

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Silky raises valid point and market aside from Toyota sat still or went backwards.

  • Wheelnut

    Yes I am a Holden fan… However; I am not trying to defend the fact that; or looking for reasons as to why GM are in trouble.. it’s pretty obvious.. and I accept that

    The thing is whilst the Holden Commodore mightn’t be as refined [in some areas] as its rivals – even though the Aurion isn’t really a direct rival.. overall it’s still a reliable safe affordable mode of transport big enough for the average family and able to deal with the harsh conditions and unique environment here in Australia

    Remember NASA have spent billions working on a pen that writes in space… The Russians took a pencil.

  • Travis

    Oh and Wheelnut Mazda have been at number 4 for a long time now, they haven’t been down at 8-9 pretty much since the Mazda 2, 3 and 6 were introduced into the market.

  • silky

    actually wheelnut in this case its Holden that spent the billion :) The VE is an ok car, better in some ways than the Aurion, not as good in others. But, its design is flawed when one considers the money spent. 4 Speed box, terrible A pillars and a front engineering which is not as strong as the model it replaced, and that motor…

    Market value is market share..

    Wheelnut you can talk TRD, FPV and HSV all you like, they are not relevant in terms of sales and market share, the numbers are too small. Its who sells the most cars and makes the most money that matters…that certainly isnt Holden :(

  • silky

    How is it a sports oriented wagon, because it has no rear view and does not have the load carrying capcity of a proper station wagon?

    Its a station wagon mate, jut ignore the holden marketing :)

  • Andrew M

    Gift-Ed,
    I know the LPG commodore was given a price drop of $1500 earlier this year.
    Its proven i knew that and factored it in because i said an LPG commodore attracts a $2400 price premium and not the Pre-april premium of $3900.

    even after the price drop of $1500, the premium before rebates is $2400 for the commodore, and $1100 for the falcon.

    the commodore now uses .7L less fuel than the equivalent LPG falcon. previously the falcon had a .6L advantage.
    after a years worth of driving, the commodore will save you $50 bucks on your LPG fuel bill for the year.
    That saving is totally wiped out by you having to run unleaded through your commodore every now and then because it is still a duel fuel. also there is increased servicing costs for duel fuel
    the falcon can run on LPG for its entire life.

    even after rebates, the commodore will still cost you about $1000???? more on initial purchase

    so where is this newly developed “considerable saving over E-Gas” you speak of????

    Now what we need is a dedicated LPG commodore, and an SVI LPG falcon. Apparently at the start of next year ford is putting the SVI system in.
    ABOUT BLOODY TIME!!

    I will applaud the first of our aussie makes to produce a dedicated LPG car with a decent tech LPG system.
    as already said, if either of them had a new tech system in a dedicated motor, then we would see consumption match unleaded figures, and power figures greater than.

    to me, its like they are worried about producing it out of fear no body but the fleets will buy it even after they spend some dosh on it.

    what they need is a perception changer like a Turbo LPG 6cyl.

  • Andrew M

    Travis,
    you are totally correct!!!

    BUT……
    you fail to miss that the fleet concept regarding sales and holden, cant, and isnt only applied to holden.

    you care to tell what sort of discounts toyota offers/offered to gobble up the market share to come to the commanding lead they have now?

    how many corollas, Hiluxs, camrys etc are sold to fleets??
    in the particular example of the corolla and Lux, both are top 2 sellers in Oz every now and then.
    it is well known that these very 2 vehicles are only mid pack performers yet still stack the runs up.

    how is it worse that holden sells their inferior (for want of a better word) commodore to the number one spot.

    you totally miss that the entire top 3 sellers in OZ sell in numbers yet are also inferior to their competition.
    in some cases by quite a margin (corolla)

  • Frosty

    Silky. you are very wrong indeed. Do you have any idea how the system works. I know someone at Ancrap and he has stated that the VE just missed out on a 5 star rating when it was first launched and that if Holden supplied one now instead of waiting for the VF update it would get a 5 star so put away your bias, grow up and realise that the frontal design of the Commodore is fine not flawed as you incorrectly state.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Hey Alborz you may want to include name changing under the same IP address in your code of conduct,clearly some on this blog are doing so to gain credibility for their cause.

    Unique conditions in Australia,well there are Travis,Techno Tony / Thomas79 ,air con in German cars is crap compared to the local makes,yet the heaters work superb!!

    Yet remind me again what this thread is about ? Fuel efficiency if Im not mistaken !

  • Wheelnut

    Quote: [Silky] “Market value is market share..”

    What the? Market Value is expressed as a $ figure whereas Market Share is expressed as a % figure.. they are two different non related figures.. I mean is the new Toyota Aurion worth 2%?

    Regardless – I referred to HSV-FPV-TRD because in the Locally Built Family /Performance Sports Sedan Market the Holdens/HSVs and Fords/FPVs have a greater share of the market than Toyota /TRDs…. despite the low volumes [extremely low as far as TRDs are concerned]

  • Frosty

    Under the new terms of reference posted, I am surprised that those calling Holden drivers bogans are not deleted. WHAT DO YOU DESCRIBE AS A BOGAN????? I am far from a Bogan, I am professionally employeed, have enough money to buy any type of vehicle I wish to buy but stick to Holden for a number of reasons. Reliability going back the 40 years my family have driven them. Holdens that have driven right around Australia, from Darwin to the Kimberleys to Mount Isa, Hobart, Perth, Sydney, Adelaide, Brisbane and in all types of Road conditions. A HT that lasted 20 years before my parents updated to a HZ and then to a VS Commodore up to now where my mother has a VE also at the age of 71. You see many more old Holdens on the road than any other make comparable in age. You try and take a 70′s model Toyota around Australia during the 1970′s and it would have been lucky to make it to Sydney and would not have lasted the trip up the Stuart Highway infact imagine one doing the trip from Tennant Creek to Mount Isa on the Highway between the 2. As I said many or most Holden owners are not bogans and it offends us that there are illinformed people out there like topdod (what a joke) and technotony (another joke) whose bias clouds their vision of why people buy cars. I suggest you retract your comments about Holden owners. Mods please remind those of the terms of use.

  • Frosty

    Correction 10 years between HT and Hz…. Regardless still a long time for 1 car.

  • silky

    Frosty, why don’t you just google, I did and there are plenty of references as to why the VE can never have 5 stars for safety, Try searching goauto.com.au or even this site. Mate you are plain living in denial. Actually you wont search, you will remain in your ivory tower and ignore the facts wont you :)

    Wheelnut I was actually correcting an earlier post of mine which you had queried, I had typed “market value” instead of market “share”. Gee, you couldnt work that out?

  • silky

    What about you wheelnut, you want to comment on the VE meeting minimal frontal offset requirements? Or do you agree with frost, just needed a couple more airbags to get 5 stars. Yes wheelnut, another example of Holden CORE engineering :)

  • silky

    Frosty you obv have no idea how ancap system works do you mate, there are minimum standards which must be met on all tests for a vehicle to be eligible for a 5 star rating, surprised your mate didnt tell you that, oh yes, the VE fails on the frontal in terms of meeting minimum requirements, the previous model fared better in that test. Dear me, looks okay though :)

  • silky

    ww.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/49905D493E1D7934CA257300001B6452

    there you go thats 1 link, just needs another w. Happy reading.

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Is cool accurate reading and well put Frosty.

    As I said earlier…..the timing of Toyota has been accurate whereas Ford and Holden have lagged both on design, look and how they put it together. Ford in particular…but they have great models hopefully coming out and to build an arsenal of cars takes time. I googled Ford and they (like Holden) need to forge and plough ahead with great cars and massive inclusions if they are to reign back Toyota. Ford cant move forward when have an indifferent line up around World and have only slowly changed into its kinetic swoopy look and one would of thought that some of Mazda’s stylish pananche would have rubbed off on Ford designers (quite the contrary and this is why Dearborn have been stubborn to wake up on its mentality on look it adopts). Ford has no real model flow from market to market and take way too long to update its lineup (the Escape, Falcon wagon and Territory are prime examples). I think Toyota are in the right place at the right time with the right ethos that fresh updates without polarising people is the go (and they forget sporty numbers which in one way is bad…..but who cares when they read the market and they keep selling more) and there term at top will be not always there (one has to be a realist as everything is cyclic and has its season).

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    typo………..well put Silky and not Frosty! Got a habit of stating obvious!

  • silky

    “Have you ever thought that the reason Holden have called the Sportwagon a Sportwagon; is because its a Sports oriented Wagon?” Well, no, holden clled it a sportswagon because they know their demographic so well. Its a station wagon, lol.

    You like that little read on Holden CORE engineering wheelnut? Here is my fav comment from HOLDEN – “We acknowledge that ANCAP exists and that it has a purpose but we don’t design our cars for ANCAP,” YUP, thats Holdens marketing manager :)

  • silky

    sorry one more;

    “ANCAP is only one measure of safety performance. It is just one element of assessing a car’s actual safety. People will always do their own testing, but we do a lot more extensive testing in a lot more situations, so we feel we have an overall car that is suited to the real world.”

    Thats right, the testing they never publish, unlike ANCAP who make their data publicly available. This frontal floor is not exmple of evolution, its devolution, a step backwards, this is an exmple of style over function, looks over safety. And you know, they knew it all along :)

  • Andrew M

    Frosty,
    Silky is right.
    even if the commodore is submitted for further tests now it has the extra airbags, it still will not get 5 stars.
    even if it gets Max points in the side tests, it still will not get 5 stars.

    Also as you mentioned earlier, and i will correct it…….
    the falcon that achieved 5 stars was in the base XT form with out the extra airbags.
    thats the very same way the VE was tested

  • Andrew M

    Silky,
    Daewoo called their wagon they had here a few years back a “sportswagon”.

  • silky

    Thanks Andrew, I see Holden is getting its marketing from DAEWOO NOW AS WELL AS ITS ENGINEERING :)

  • silky

    Lets be perfectly clear about this;

    The VE can NEVER get a 5 star safety rating. It has a design flaw which Holden chose to ignore.

  • http://Dodge Frenchie

    I read the ANCAP results on the Omega sedan and ute which are similar. I also read the ANCAP results on the FG falcon. Not denying that the Ford got a better score, but the Omega front is not flawed.

    The source of why the Omega got a lower score was through steering column components being a source of injury to drivers knees. I’m sure if Holden rectified this they would get there 5 star rating.

    Then again are they interested in doing that?

  • silky

    “but the Omega front is not flawed” yes it is, it does not meet the minimum test score for ANCAP. Holden knew what the score was, holden did their own testing, holden knew they would fail Ancap testing requirements, holden chose to do nothing about it. That is, Holden chose to fail the test, that is Holden chose to ignore safety issues. Lets clarify this, Holden are still ignoring safety issues.

    The other problem the VE has is its A pillars..and possible failure want me to give you the link to that, or you want to find it yourself?

    “Silky, regarding 5 star rating the Omega misses out because the it did not have curtain airbags standard at the time of test.” – right frenchie, dont try and pretend you know the facts next time.

    finally your final comment – “Then again are they interested in doing that? ” – NO mate, Holden couldnt give a rat’s arse.

  • silky

    “The source of why the Omega got a lower score was through steering column components being a source of injury to drivers knees. I’m sure if Holden rectified this they would get there 5 star rating.” – No Frenchie if it were that simple they would rectify and get their 5 stars. There is more to it..

  • http://Dodge Frenchie

    ANCAP doesn’t mention anything about A pillars. The only thing wrong is your perception of them.

  • silky

    I never suggested that ANCAP commented on the A pillars frenchie, I merely implied there was a potential problem with them. Why don’t you do sume research for once instead of pretending you know the facts cause your mate “told you….”

  • Wheelnut

    Silky – if you read the Open Road magazine which came out just after the VE and the Aurion did the ANCrAP tests you will see that the reasonb the VE only got 4 stars is because the tests were conducted a couple of days after the VE was officially released.

    ANCrAP asked Holden if they would like to take part [as the crash tests aren't really mandatory or compulsory] yet at the time Holden only had enough cars to do the first 4 tests mainly because they had just started production and were focussing on getting enough cars out to the major dealerships.

    Holden provided 4 cars did the first 4 tests; missing out on the final “pole” test” yet the VE passed all 4 tests wheaeas according to reports Toyota did all 5 tests failed the “pole test”
    Yet due to a loophole in ANCrAPs guidelines – car manufacturers can provide as many cars as they want to do the test so Toyota provided extra cars until the Aurion passed the 5th and final test – it took an extra 2 cars

    As its the car companies who wear the cost in providing the cars and conducting the tests despite the fact its the insurance companies who benefit more from the results of the test as they use the data to determine how much the insurance premiums for a particular car should be

    So Holden only did 4 tests they and got 100% success whereas Toyota had a 63% success rate

    Although as I have said before – If you place the ANCrAp ratings as a top priority when buying a new car then you are virtually admitting that you are a poor driver and are expecting that you will either be in or cause a potentially fatal accident..

    Not to mention the fact that you are unable to realise that these tests are performed in controlled conditions and don’t allow for any other variables such as weather road conditions amount of grip and human responses /reactions.

    They don’t test the safety level of a particular model they are infact testing the safety level of a particular car of that particular model which means my Toyota Aurion may pass a particular ANCrAP test whereas your Aurion may infact fail the exact same test.

  • Volvo

    Yea can’t to see the marketing spin the Holden boys put on this power decrease.

    “We care to be green and listening to our customers… rar rar”

    Keep selling more Daewoo’s, it’s Holden’s profitable future.

  • silky

    Wheelnut, I think I will run with ANCAP results not the “Open Road” Magazine (LOL). Mate you are getting pretty desperate now to come up with this crap. Another Holden boy who changes the FACTS to suit his fantasy. Get real, there are people reading this blog who might actually think you know something about cars, how wrong they would be..

    “Although as I have said before – If you place the ANCrAp ratings as a top priority when buying a new car then you are virtually admitting that you are a poor driver and are expecting that you will either be in or cause a potentially fatal accident..” – Wheelnut

    That would be one of the more stupid statements I have ever read, you need to have a good look at yourself mate, safety is there to save lives, when and as needed. You could be carrying kids in the car…bad weather, driver error, mechanical failure, other driver error, road conditions, speed all of these factors can contribute to an accident..man you are a joke.

  • silky

    “OPEN ROAD magazine”! That article I posted is quoting ANCAP AND Holden exec officers and here you are with “open road magazine…The VE FAILED THE FRONTAL IMPACT TEST, IT DID NOT MEET MINIMUM STANDARDS, IT PERFORMED LESS ABLY IN THIS TEST THAN THE PREVIOUS MODEL DID. These are the facts, or did “your mate” tell you different as well…(LOL)

  • Andrew M

    Wheelnut,
    even if holden did submit a car for the pole test, and even if they did score maximum points in the pole test,
    it still wouldnt have gotten 5 stars due to its frontal scores being too low just as Silky says.

    the pole test only accounts for 3 points?? i think it is.

    the stars are awarded based on its overall performance.
    even if you throw the maximum pole test score on to the commodore, the overall score still wont account to a 5 star vehicle

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Iam sure WHEELNUT will argue blue about “all it needs is heaps of airbags and will shoe it in”. Bit like seeing a mirage in the desert….you know its there in the distance but you never see it as you walk towards it!

  • silky

    Actually Andrew Im pretty sure that if a vehicle cannot pass the frontal offset or side impact test then it is not eligible to do the pole test full stop, also I believe the Aurion never did the pole test at all…

  • Andrew M

    Silky,
    I didnt think the Aurion did a pole test either.

    both holden and toyota would have seen it impossible to get 5 stars after seeing the frontal scores and they would have been silly to waste another car trying to do the impossible.

    you are probably right in that if the pole test wont increase their rating, ANCAP prob wont waste their time trying either

  • Andrew M

    The proof is in the pudding in that extra airbags dont always mean a safer car.
    throwing extra bags at it doesnt guarantee it a better rating.

    Pudding =
    Aurion 6 Airbags = 4 stars
    Falcon 4 airbags = 5 stars

  • Andrew

    It is good that they are able to achieve the Euro IV emissions standard and reduce fuel consumption slightly (and good with the LPG consumption reduction, this means one step further towards decent per-tank km from a LPG car) however I think they should of now made the 5 speed auto standard across the range, this of course would make yet another minor decrease in fuel consumption and would also surely match the previous 3.6L’s configuation on-road performance if not improve on it. I say now bring-on Direct Injection for high-end variants (to allow time to iron-out any bugs before making it standard across the range) and the 5 speed auto for the whole range. So in summary, good on Holden however nothing to get too excited about.

  • silky

    Also a disappointing result got Aurion, would have thought that may have done better as well.

  • Falcodore

    Whats ANCAP ratings and airbags got to do with fuel consumption?

  • Wheelnut

    Quote [Silky] You like that little read on Holden CORE engineering wheelnut? Here is my fav comment from HOLDEN – “We acknowledge that ANCAP exists and that it has a purpose but we don’t design our cars for ANCAP,” YUP, thats Holdens marketing manager :)

    Of course Holden don’t design their cars with the primary purpose to pass ANCrAP tests.. infact I doubt many manufacturers do..

    Because they realise that if a driver found him/herself heading straight towards a pole or under the back of a truck s/he is most likely going to take some form of evasive action by either braking or changing lanes –
    a factor not taken into account by ANCrAP

    If they were to Design their vehicles with the sole intention of Passing ANCrAP tests they would probably build somehting like a Sherman Tank

    I expect that Holden like most car companies design their cars to be driven on the open roads and to be the most practical reliable affordable mode of transport with all the latest safety technology devices and other modern features that they can for the price.. Given the limited resources Holden and Ford Oz have compared to Toyota and the other Overseas marques they do a pretty good job

  • Wheelnut

    Quote [Silky]:“Although as I have said before – If you place the ANCrAP ratings as a top priority when buying a new car then you are virtually admitting that you are a poor driver and are expecting that you will either be in or cause a potentially fatal accident..” – Wheelnut

    That would be one of the more stupid statements I have ever read, you need to have a good look at yourself mate, safety is there to save lives, when and as needed. You could be carrying kids in the car…bad weather, driver error, mechanical failure, other driver error, road conditions, speed all of these factors can contribute to an accident..man you are a joke.

    That’s my point exactly Silky – [driver error, driver response times and alertness/fatigue; mechanical failure, road surface, level of grip on the tyres; if the car has ABS EBD ESP or not; weather conditions and speed
    are factors which ANCrAP DON\’T take into consideration.

    They just drive the cars straight into a pole or under a truck…. and I doubt anyone on the road would do that deliberately – the instinct of self preservation would take over and the driver would at least attempt to take some form of evasive action

  • Bavarian Missile

    Aurion didnt do the Pole test cause Toyota didnt want to spend the 150k they say………right!Having the option of 5 stars and they don’t want to spend 150k,bullc r a p! Who cares about safety ratings ,I buy a car cause I enjoy it,cause Im an enthusiast if I worried about safety I never would have owned XA GT Falcons now would I !

  • Andrew M

    Andrew,
    you will get comparible K’s per tank out of LPG as you do Unleaded.

    LPG tanks are bigger to make up the extra few L/100k LPG systems chew through

    In summary, an LPG powered car WILL get around the same amount of travel time as an unleaded version before it needs to visit the servo.

    Wheelnut,
    I agree that ANCAP results arent the be all and end all of deciding on a motor vehicle, BUT it is a usefull guide none the less.
    if i walked into the show room of Holden and i really liked the commodore, it only being a 4 star wouldnt put me off. some people would be put of though.

    I dont buy a vehicle based on safety ratings or even fuel ratings to take it one further, or to take it even further i definately dont buy based on phone poll survey results.

    I buy the vehicle I like. that is the one that seems the best to drive and the most comfortable whilst doing it. (driving that is)

  • Wheelnut

    I’m not saying that ANCAP tests are irrelevant either.. I mean its like you have 2 high school students: one who got 90% in a test and another who got 85%.. and when anything above 80% equates to an A both students passed.. it’s just that one performed slightly better than the other.. the questions may have been weighted differently just like the ANCAP tests are

    However; now that the VE has both reduced power and reduced fuel consumption at least it will now use slightly less fuel when it ploughs into that [telegraph] pole

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Ummmm Missile…..I already pre-emted your response would be what you said. LOL doing it for the Nutter.

  • realcars

    I know I will get pounded for this statement but I can’t help the feeling that many of the small/medium cars will fold like crepe paper at anything over the Ancrap speed thresholds whereas large cars like the Commodore and Aurion would have a bit more breathing space even though your knee caps may be missing.

    BM XA GT is my favorite GT.

  • realcars

    Despite their 5 star rating may I add.

  • Andrew M

    Wheelnut,
    to take your example further,
    what if the threshold puts one as a “B” and the other as an “A”
    say one gets 95% and the other 85%, but 85% is only good enough for a “B”

    good to see your positive spin at the end. yep, at least it will use less fuel when it hits the pole.

    but hang on, if it uses less fuel before it hits the pole, that means there is more left on board to fuel the explosion………
    ha ha ha ha ha ha dont get your knickers in a knot, that was just a light hearted dig

    Realcars,
    no pounding coming your way from me.
    i actually agree with you.
    i would rather be in a 4 star commodore than a 5 star Focus or Lancer if shyte were to hit the fan

  • realcars

    Holden is on track with injected LPG.

    My old AU UTE with 260,000KLMS on the ODO gets close to 500klms out of 80 litre tanks city/suburban driving.Have got 630klms on a tank highway when I behave.LOL.

    The more klms the faster she goes.LOL.

  • realcars

    I agree with Wheelnuts earlier sentiments that the Commodore is a mighty effort for our “small” country.

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Geepers….now Andrew M talks of thresholds. Are you like TP’s accountant LMAO (joking dude)

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Iam with Realcars…..the Commie rocks and I like. Falcon is another super car with rave reviews. Lets just hope they both learn from it all and close gap on design and manufacture on others and give big T a run for it!

  • Wheelnut

    Glad to see we Finally agree on something NM!

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Nutter…..havent I always said mate that Commie shytes all over new Falcon from side at rear, swoopy roof, front guard how tucks into front bumper. The way the roof tapers off above rear door and blends and gels unreal there. The only thing I have said is flared guards do stick out a tad – but they grow on me and I do like as looks like a real car with real purpose and poise whereas Falcon looks sedate and plainer somewhat. Falcon still looks hot but not as aggressive as Commie!

  • Bavarian Missile

    Realcars..yeah they rock ! Coupes the toughest,although Ive had a 4 door to.

    NM you make it sound that Im predictable ? I would like to think I comment on my beliefs not what others want to hear,thought you knew me better than that babe!

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    I do know you babe. When I see you disagreeing with Wheelnut – well then will agree with you. I dont mean that in a bad way hey!

  • Wheelnut

    Quote [Bavarian Missile]:NM you make it sound that Im predictable ? I would like to think I comment on my beliefs not what others want to hear,thought you knew me better than that babe!

    And because I respect BM so much – I would never tell her what to say or do.

  • Andrew M

    Sorry to scare you there NM.
    I hope I didnt bring flash backs to you of the original TP…..
    Ill leave words like “Threshold”, “Dividends” and “Treasury” in the cupboard as to not get your heart rate up and prevent the cold sweat ;)

    BUT……..
    I cant promise you I wont slip in a “Floored” in place of “Flawed” every now and then purely for my own amusement.

    On topic,
    I agree that the commodore looks good,
    but for me the interior and seats are the massive turn off.

    it is good to see them using an injected LPG system, but the turn off for me is its still a dual fuel :(
    I just traded my E-Gas falcon and didnt get another because it has now fallen a fair bit behind the petrol falcon.
    I didnt want to get a new car that hadnt really been upgraded. When i purchased the E-Gas i had, at the time it was right on par with the petrol version, but over the years Ford hasnt done jack to it and hence it has fallen behind the petrol falcon considerably.

    Either way the LPG Commy (even being dual fuel) or the LPG Falcon running its old school system still present an extremely cheap motoring option.

    it was proven in an RACQ study that LPG is the only worth while alternative fuel when you consider fuel costs, servicing costs, insurance etc etc.
    even the diesel and hybrid options didnt out do their petrol versioned variants