Pontiac to drop VE-based G8 range?
October 24, 2008 by George Skentzos
Holden’s largest export market could potentially dry up with inside sources reporting that Pontiac will not carry over to the next-generation rear-drive platform of the Australian-developed Commodore.
Pontiac could discontinue its entire VE-based G8 range when the next Commodore arrives in about five years time, citing limited corporate resources and fear of rising fuel-economy standards as the main motives.
This speculation follows an announcement by Pontiac that there would be no replacement for its rear-wheel drive Solstice roadster, leaving the current G8 range as its only rear-drive model.
This does not bode well for local industry with Holden’s billion-dollar architecture losing its relevance in the wake of changing economic times with an increasing shift toward fuel-efficient vehicles in the US market.
The news is just as grim in the blue corner, with the recent confirmation that Ford Australia would end production of its locally-built inline-six engine in 2010, instead opting to use Ford’s global EcoBoost V6 range.
This is coupled with increased speculation suggesting the next-generation front-wheel drive Ford Taurus will replace the Falcon here in Australia.
Regardless, this news should not affect the local development of the next-generation Commodore or its future in other overseas markets where it is currently sold under the Vauxhall and Chevrolet nameplates.
Source: InsideLine
Tags: Pontiac G8
The irony of these anti-spam words continues to amaze. (Daewoo in this case….)
If ontiac don’t want the next Gen Commodore, then that must have a significant effect on Holden.
Surely they’ll have to downsize the next major rear drive car.
Torana anyone?
But then GM would end up with Insignia & Torana; will that work?
I reckon the Insignia could go really well in the US as a Pontiac or Chev.
Holden can’t rely on Middle East exports of Commodore & Statesman forever.
I reckon ther best option is to built either Corsa (Barina) or Astra at Elizabeth South, along with a downsized reardrive car off the VE chassis; perhaps Torana or still called Commodore.
Where this leaves Insignia for this Counrty, I’m not sure…
Seems holden therefore have 5 years warning to retool for a small car, a-k-a astra’s or barina’s ilk. Ready…… set…….. sit on hands!
We’ll probably still get force fed cadillacs though……………….
Holden was sucessfully exporting Commodores to South America, the Middle East, and South Africa before GM decided to add the Pontiac G8 to the list.
Even if Holden loses the US as a customer there still should be enough local and export sales to justify an upgraded version of the Commodore in 5 years time.
Given that Ford is giving serious consideration to dropping the locally developed and manufactured RWD Falcon for perhaps a FWD/AWD Taurus this could be an opportunity for Holden to gain market share here in the fullsized RWD segment…
And if by chance Holden (ie, GM) decides not to continue with a new Commodore, then a well built Mondeo/Mazda6 sized Torana could be want the local market wants by then.
I really can’t see Holden shutting up shop and closing its factory here. The public and the govt just wouldn’t allow it.
Makes zero difference, GM is technically dead as in insovlvent
Cheers
F-0
Pontiac drop a small 2 door convertable, and that somehow spells the end for the G8 just because they both happen to be rear wheel drive?? come on….
The G8 is leading is one of the best selling cars in its segment, and one of the best selling cars Pontiac has had for a very long time. Also with the falling aussie dollar, its cheaper then ever for Pontiac to import.
Again, come on….
Just read the article on inside line, way to twist the truth there car advice! I know you kinda said the truth, but you worded it fairly missleadingly… your not just after some negative holden news are you? That wouldn\’t be like car advice…
The article clearly says in 5 years time when the VE commodore gets its major update (think entirely new body on upgraded VE archetecutre) Pontiac MAY not get the replacement. IN FIVE YEARS TIME! Not now…
Agree Richo, its just a bit of scaremongering. The G8’s been on the market for less than 12 months, the Sport Truck is yet to be sold and they are already writing the obituary. Once the current financial turmoil passes they will see that the G8 is whats saving Pontiac, not Pontiac sales saving the VE.
The reason it failed is because its badged as a Pontiac. Pontiac is known for making rubbish cars, and just because they make one good one people still don’t want to buy it.
The lack of a manual was the nail in the coffin.
Except that it is just not selling.
Richo, agree on the sentiment of sensationalist journalism, I especailly liked the way the Ford stab was also worked into a negative Pontiac article.
Silly part is both statements (ie may not get G8 in 5 years, & Ford NOT ruling out FWD in 5 years if that is what the public want) appear to me to be sensible honest business statements.
I wonder if the Author who submitted the article on this site can honestly tell me that he will still be writing articles for this site & not an oppositon site or magazine in 5 years??
“IN FIVE YEARS TIME!” – would Pontiac be around or even warrant having a G8? Five years time what would the oil prices be? and given the crisis now, people are going to be more frugal in these times and years ahead. Id rather have GM seriously diverting to more economical or smaller cars, narrow the model range to the 80%+ consumer market.
FYI I just heard OPEC cut down in their oil production…
Go Edmunds!
I would like to take the opportunity to say i did not write this articule… sounds like me but.
For all the Holden supporters out there.
Would you like some milk with the words you will be eating?
New Commodore in five years? Don’t tell me it will be a V6?
GM planning 5 years ahead is like me planning what to do in 2068…
We will both be dead by then….
The problem with “In five years time” is that it can take longer than five years to develop a whole new car.
The VE development lasted about 8 years I believe (but that was a big change).
It’s not like Holden/GM can wait 4 years and then decide to release an all new Commodore/G8/whatever the following year.
Keep in mind also that we got over the “recession we had to have” in ‘92 and the Tech Crash in ‘01 an was on the road to recovery much less than 5 years.
Skybreak – the VE’s successor is to be more or less just a major overhaul of the existing archetecture. Holden is already working on the replacement and its due in 2012
Even if the market continues to move towards smaller cars, there will always be car enthusiasts and who want affordable full-sized RWD V8s.
If you think I’m wrong you might as well tell me that Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc are going to stop making big powerful thirsty cars and shift towards eco-boxes.
Anyone interested in a Ferrari Barina or Lamborghini Viva?
Richo – yes the VF is a relatively minor uprade, but the 2012 upgrade would be a major one. That one could be in doubt (but I hope not).
Richo, the article clearly says it could “potentially” be replaced “in about five years time”. I don’t see how that is misleading.
Frontman, it’s obviously written from an Australian perspective on the matter – why wouldn’t it mention Ford Australia? As you said they are completely “sensible honest business statements” which will have a significant effect on the future of the Australian automotive industry – which is obviously what this article is outlining.
JasonP: There has been a lot of speculation that the next model Commodore [due in approx 4 years] will become a more “compact” RWD car. – similar in size to the TT-36 Torana Concept car.
There are also reports that the compact Commodore could also be built as a coupe. I expect the Sedan and Ute models will wear the Commodore badge but the Hatch/Coupe to be called the Torana
As for the Insignia as yet it hasn’t been officially confirmed for Australia
Ironically its expected that the Compact Commodore will be built on the same platform as the Insigina can accept FWD RWD and AWD drivelines
Holden recently has announced that they have plans to build a small car at Elizabeth and I suspect it will be the Corsa or the Astra… though I would love to see the GT Roadster built here as well
Quote [Tom]: The reason it failed is because its badged as a Pontiac. Pontiac is known for making rubbish cars, and just because they make one good one people still don’t want to buy it….
I totally agree with you Tom on a number of USA auto blog websites [similar to this] there are hundreds of GM fans who think that GM should simply change the name “Pontiac” over to “Holden”
Skybreak – Research and Development of the VE did take 8 years However; if you think that Holden haven’t started working on the next generation Commodore yet you know very little about the Automotive industry.
Once a car company has established a platform or the basic architecture of a particular car they then start looking at a range of changes modifications or improvements they can make to it in terms of engines exterior/interior design etc inorder to create the next model.
Its more likely that Holden have been working on the next generation commodore soon after the VE was released – and given that many expect it to be similar in size to the Tornana … they don’t really have that much work to do as they can use the TT-36 Concept car as a basis.
BTW the next gen commodore will most likely have a Direct Injection Twin Turbo V6 [similar to that in the TT-36] capable of producing 300+Kw as well as a 4cyl and a diesel
Wheelnut, funny you should mention the branding change!
While Aussie’s are rebadging their Commodores as Chevrolet’s here, the opposite is happening overseas with many owners grabbing the Holden badge and sometimes even the Australian SS front bumper.
Strange how backwards brand loyalty is.
Farkin Yanks them and their super size takeaways and arses.
Rest of the world is now paying for their excess as usual.
Farkin Yanks!!!!!
mr wheelnut,
my info suggests astra is on the short list.wouldn’t be a bad thing for aust,and its a quality car too(no korean cr..).holden is having a hard time keeping up stock to aust,particulary the petrol models,since demand in europe has increased due to the diesel price hike
YOu took the words Right Outa MY Mouth Realcars: Agree with everything u said..but u forgot 1 thing…”America Sneezes, the whole world GETS AIDSSSS….”
If holden which is really an american company lets not kid ourselves people, anyhow if they decide to go the way of front wheel drives for these sorts of cars, they can kiss my arseee..no way in the world i would buy a holden or ford for that matter in front wheel drive.
I truly believe all the hype and bs over so called destruction of the world to “climate change” will kill the motor industry in this and other countrys, no doubt…
Bye Bye glorious car days…. :(
Wheelnut, you said “if you think that Holden haven’t started working on the next generation Commodore yet you know very little about the Automotive industry”.
Did I say that Holden haven’t started working on the next generation Commodore? – No I did not.
My point was actually similar to yours – that it takes a long time to develop a new product.
George – Heres the thing, when you call out Car Advice on something like this, they usually go and make a subtle revision to the article, which is what has happened here. It’s happened before, it’ll happen again. The article was originally, intentionally, sensationalist.
Agree Marcos I don’t think many would be bothered with a front drive Falcon.
Corolla/Focus size will be the family car of the future.
If climate change is a result of man’s activities then manufacturers with the best crystal ball will win out.
Richo, I wrote the article – nothing has been changed.
George the reason for more dig at the context of the article, and the referance to Ford is simple.
First of all, as I said these are the sort of statements one would expect from large corporations (and as I rather bluntly sugested you an I would answer similar).
Secondly, I quote
The news is just as grim in the blue corner, with the recent confirmation that Ford Australia would end production of its locally-built inline-six engine in 2010, instead opting to use Ford’s global EcoBoost V6 range
Why do you see this as grim? Okay I understand the sadness of job loss, butlets take aminute to look at the other side and put a positive spin on the Australian manufacturers. Like the step to Duratech, Duratorq and Ecoboost in something like the Falcon to make it greener, more economical and still remain a viable large family car (which are still selling, just that their largest customer base {the Government} has gone to a Toy… sorry 4cyl base) for Australia with what will be one of the best 6cyl engines in the world if CX9 is anything to go by.
Okay Holden may lose Pontiac, but look at it’s other markets for V series. Secondly if it too gets a small / medium car then it will have a better chance of Asian Market so again exports.
Sorry but I’m just getting a little bit over the amount of negativity out there and it’s about time we started looking at a few positive’s and things in a positive maner. This move by Pontiac (if it were to happen) would mean Holden could be free up to make V series less American and therefore even nicer to drive.
Hey tough week for some
I read the article on Inside LIne also and they also said the next gen commy could be based on the Torana concept (medium size RWD platform) The Insignia will be badged as a Buick or a Saturn in the U.S.
It seems as though Pontiac are just going back to bieng the badge engineered company of FWD cars which is what nearly killed them in the first place.
It is a shame that Holden spent all that money on VE knowing it was going to the U.S and now, if the rumours are true, the parent company aren’t going to back them.
As ive said before the american CEOs are just plain IDIOTS!
Realcars Says:
October 24th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
“Farkin Yanks them and their super size takeaways and arses.
Rest of the world is now paying for their excess as usual.
Farkin Yanks!!!!!”
The Aussie car industry would have died out a long time ago if it wasn’t for the Americans and the Aussie tax payer – Holden and Ford loyalists need to thank both. ;-)
Wheelnut, what compact enough for the new Commodore to be in the mid size car catergory against the Mondeo, Mazda 6 etc?
“Quote [Tom]: The reason it failed is because its badged as a Pontiac. Pontiac is known for making rubbish cars, and just because they make one good one people still don’t want to buy it….
I totally agree with you Tom on a number of USA auto blog websites [similar to this] there are hundreds of GM fans who think that GM should simply change the name “Pontiac” over to “Holden””
That’s right Wheelnut the history of Pontiac has effected it’s image. (The Pontiac Badge). (Terrible, unreliable cars etc).
It’s like the opposite when Holden put the Holden badge on the TK barina or Viva. People will buy the car seeing it has a holden badge, thinking it would be “a quality product” but it’s not when its the Barina or Viva. Which if Holden does continue to have their lion badges put on crap imported korean cars it may wreck and destroy their image in the future like Pontiac and go broke.
Well, it’s GM cars in general that are unreliable, not just Pontiac. Sometimes these speculations are only a marketing strategy to trigger reactions from buyers. The G8 is a hit stateside, with one of the cheapest V8s available. From its stance it looks better screwed together, and with cylinder shut-off technology available there at a cheaper price, the VE suddenly made sense. I actually appreciated the mirror-image of the otherwise rubbish Holden yet again. In fact, I’ve seen a few Pontiacs on the road, with LHD caution stickers. They just looked better made for some reason. While some people find the American front end uglier, I think it commands more respect.
The Sport truck may be a dead car walking, but the sedan is there to stay I believe.
Well with the talks of GM and Chrysler becoming one company it wouldn’t shock me if Dodge replaced the Pontiac division. Dodge already has the Charger which sells well and would be cheaper to keep around instead of importing a car built by Holden.
frontman,
i totally agree, well said.
I too am over the pesmistic B.S.
I think both Ford and Holden would have to think very carefully about whether or not a switch to FWD would be worth it.
if they went to FWD, it would be bye bye to the car based utes.
and for ford it would spread further to bye bye territory.
I reckon it would cost more for ford to reengineer the territory to FWD than it would be worth, but its a catch 22 because if it didnt, it would lose extra sales volume that made the FWD venture worth while in the first place
Duck – The Commodore is likely to be down-sized to that of the TT-36 Torana Concept Car from a couple of years ago.. along with the Direct Injection Twin Turbo Optimised [DITTO] V6 – capable of producing 280-320Kw
thereby making it about the same size as the new Mondeo. However as it will probably be built on the same platform as the Insignia which can take both FWD RWD and AWD;
I expect the Commodore to remain RWD and therefore not directly comparable to the FWD Mondeo [RWD vs FWD]
Because I think [as Andrew M says] if either Ford or Holden switched over to FWD they would lose the dynamics of the car not to mention half the carrying capacity of the Sedan based utes which would be reduced to that of a Proton Jumbuck. which would mean loss of sales to the Beige Side
Wheelnut,
on the news this evening, there was a story on the falling car industry in general.
Not just ford and holden, but the entire industry is feeling it.
Also concerns over their credit providers have people predicting many dealership closures.
They also had holden confirming that the next Commodore will be a smaller sized car.
The funny thing is, i cant see a smaller commodore being much more fuel efficient.
Hey Andrew,Wheelnut and I will watch the news in another 35 mins………I know the US had major problems with banks not lending money for cars ,didnt know it had happened here too !
Regarding the smaller Holden I cant see it being that much smaller and I thought even the current V8s are pretty fuel efficient ! On another note Andrew love the colour of your new UTE,almost the colour of my car ! Tonyn is currently driving a F6 Ute,text me a pic of it this arvo…..N….I…C…..E ! Ill drag Wheelnut out of the spare room for a chat,hes playing with Georgia on the car racing set,guess what he is ? hahaha not the Ford !
the story was on CH10
Yep as expected the next generation Commodore 2012-14 WILL be the same size as the TT-36 Torana.. its likely to have 4cyl V6 “DITTO” V6 and possibly a Diesel engines.. V8?
I expect it will be built in RWD as that’s what Holden and the Commdodre are known for – with the possibility of AWD…. and switching to FWD will require more testing to equal the same performance handling dynamics of the current car. Not to mention the characteristics and carrying capacity of the Aussie Ute.. Plus if the Falcon gvecomes FWD they will pick up a few extra sales
Hopefully Holden also decide to build a coupe version and call it the Torana A9-X [I've seen some images of it and it looks awesome]
Andrew ML: I can’t see a smaller Commodore being that more fuel efficient either given that the current model is a “poofteenth” off that of a Camry [around town] and even better on the open road – particularly when both cars are loaded up with a family of 4 + their dog and all their luggage on a holiday.
It’s all just a matter of perception people will see that it’s smaller and automatically think that its lighter and therefore more fuel efficient.
Ooopps….The last 2 comments made under “Bavarian Missile” were actually made by me; “Wheelnut”.
It’s just that ATM we are sharing the same computer [until my gear arrives from Adelaide next week] and I forgot to change identities.
Wheelnut,
ha ha ha,
i already assumed that.
i agree, holden will play the perception game with their route to build a smaller car.
the new commodore could possibly be worse on fuel because it would retain pretty much the same weight whilst taking on the speculated smaller 3.2L engine.
Also didnt they learn anything with the 4cyl commodore of many years ago?? it was worse than the 6cyl on juice!!!!
but with my thoughts aside, they will probably shift a few more numbers due to the poor perception out there.
BM,
Yeah thanks.
Im really happy with the colour of it.
i wasnt too fussed on it in BF shape, but in the FG i reckon its a winner. everyone who has seen it loves the colour too.
yesterday morning i went to pick up a load of gravel (no, I didnt put it in the back, thats why i have 2 trailers), and as i was about to drive out one of their truck drivers flagged me down.
he asked me what the colour was called, and said he was considering painting his crane truck that colour because he really liked it
You guys are all in dreamland. There will not be a next-generation Commodore anywhere except on the drawing board, because GM will be gone before it arrives. What you need to understand is that the mothership in the USA is about to impact with the ground, and that means goodbye Holden. Very sad, but we live in dramatically-unfolding economic times and only the cleverest global car companies are going to survive.
Captain Man whinging – GM may be in financial trouble at the moment but what do most people do when they are in need of funds…? they sell off their assets – and a company is no different. so it’s more likely GM will sell off Holden to another company
Either that or they will stop production in the USA and start making RWD cars in either Australia or Canada and their FWD cars in Europe then simply import them into the USA.. that is after streamlining their line up by getting rid of Hummer Pontiac and Buick etc leaving the two “traditional” companies Chevrolet and Cadillac
The reason behind this is simple; when in trouble you focus on your strengths and in terms of RWD cars Holden are the experts in GM family whereas in terms of FWD cars its Opel – compared to the cars Holden and Opel make most US built GM cars are in a word CRAP.
shouldnt be problem for pontiac as i doubt very much that there will be a commodore to replace the woefull ve,unless holden learns what quality and customer service means and i cant see that happening.
For any sale of GM’s various subsidiaries to go ahead you need a willing buyer. Unfortuantely in these times we can’t rely on our past experiences, current events show us that even the biggest companies can fail, and these are very unusual and turbulent times. I do hope that all goes well in the long run as I like the current release Commodore particularly the Sportwagon.
Funny how no matter how much the future looks bleak for Fords and holdens, the loyal fanatics still manage to see the bright side. And always blame any negatives on everything else, including caradvice writers…