Toyota Supra successor on cards with new BMW alliance

By Jez Spinks | July 01st, 2012

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The Toyota 86 will be joined by a big brother sports car as part of a new collaboration announced by the Japanese car maker and its new favourite partner, BMW.

Toyota’s second sports car, which could become a spiritual successor to the Supra, will be another joint venture project, following the compact rear-wheel-drive 86 coupe that was produced in tandem with Subaru.

The new sports car forms a quarter of a new four-pronged long-term collaboration announced by Toyota Motor Corporation and BMW AG.

The companies have signed a memorandum of understanding that, in addition to jointly developing architecture and components for “a future sports vehicle, outlines plans to work together on the development of a fuel-cell system, electric drivetrains and lightweight technologies.

BMW and Toyota have already announced the German car maker will supply Toyota with 1.6-litre and 2.0-litre turbo diesel engines from 2014, and in March this year signed a binding agreement on joint research into future lithium-ion battery cell technology.

“We aim to further strengthen our competitive position in sustainable future technologies,” said BMW’s chairman of the board of management, Norbert Reithofer. “Toyota and the BMW Group share the same strategic vision of sustainable individual future mobility.

“Together we have a great opportunity to continue leading our industry through this transformation.”

Toyota said the two car makers could take advantage of each other’s strengths with the partnership.

“Toyota is strong in environment-friendly hybrids and fuel cells … I believe BMW’s strength is developing sports cars,” said TMC president Akio Toyoda. “I get so excited thinking about the cars that will result from this relationship.”

Neither car maker has elaborated on the sports car project, such as whether the BMW architecture used would be from the 3-Series or 5-Series range, be based on the Z4 coupe-roadster, or even an all-new platform.

It’s the second Euro-Japanese sports car collaboration announced within a matter of weeks after Fiat and Mazda announced in May a new Alfa Romeo sports car would be based on the next-generation Mazda MX-5.

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UMWHAT

I dont get it why can’t they make a car on their own but need to team up with other companies?
- Tell It As It Is
  
  They just want to make use of each other. BMW gets the Toyota’s technology and quality. Toyota gets the BMW’s fanbois.
  - UMWHAT
    
    but BMW has better technology…..
    - Yuppie1
      
      No actually it’s the opposite..
      
      I really can’t see any technology BMW has?..
      
      Toyota has Hybrid, which they’ve patent heavily, trademarked etc etc
      - Dudeface
        
        Hah, yeah, I’m sure that the BMW group (including Mini and Rolls Royce) has nothing to offer Toyota….
        Damn Toyota fanbois with their blinkers on.
      - Phil
        
        BMW has always had diesels technology with better economy than Toyota’s hybrids. The 116D “ef” has lower consumption and better acceleration that a Prius.
        If you actually knew anything about this alliance, its that Toyota wants BMWs diesels.
      - Shakeel-ali
        
        They both want something from each other, hence why they even bothered with the alliance. BMW want better hybrid tech, and toyota want better diesel technology.
    - Dominique Vøn Hütch
      
      Bimmer make great diesels, which Toyota need in their smaller vehicles. Bimmer need hybrid tech, at least to develop concepts from and potentially respond to the move to high end battery powered cars e.g. Fisker, Tesla etc.
- Turbo123
  
  Toyota can show BMW a thing or two about handling. Toyota obviously know the science of great handling inside out as evident in the 86, which handles much better than the BMW’s 1 series. The reason why the Aurion/Camry don’t handle great is because it’s purpose is too be a comfy family vehicle. Furthermore Aus and USA don’t have 250kmh autobarns so why tune to car’s suspension for 250kmh when it’s used at 80kmh 99.9% of the time.
  - Dudeface
    
    Toyota can show BMW a thing or two about handling? Did you really say that? Maybe you’re being sarcastic..Let me drop a few words here. M3. M5.
    Hell, your evidence of Toyota’s supposed knowledge of handling prowess is the 86, which was 90% Subaru!
    Toyota obviously have something to gain out of this partnership.. otherwise they would just SELL the technology to BMW, wouldn’t they….
    - Turbo123
      
      Low centre of gravity, wide tracks, long suspension arms, stiff springs, aggressive shocks, large alloy wheels, wide and low profile tyres, close to 50-50 F-R weight distribution, good down force, thick anti roll bars……………………… These are the stuff to achieve good handling, a reasonably technically minded high school kid also knows. You make as if a corporation like Toyota is a dumbass that don’t know what’s low centre of gravity, wide tracks and so on. For your info, a hybrid system or an LCD TV or an efficient and reliable engine/transmission is 1000x more complex than the theory behind low centre of gravity and handling, wide tracks and so on.
    - RoFlmaTiC
      
      90% Subaru? Source?
      - Dudeface
        
        So maybe that was a slight exaggeration. But come now, the thing has a boxer engine and is BUILT by Subaru….
      - Kaas
        
        dude, do you know anything about vehicle projects?
        The Chief Engineer for 86 is from Toyota… the marketing, product design is from Toyota.
        Toyota gave birth to the project, approved the project, made decisions on the project. Subaru did the leg work, under Chief Engineer instructions… which is Toyota. Toyota also owns a big chunk of Subaru and will eventually buy them out outright from Fuji Heavy Industries. Its pretty much, because the 86 will use modified Subaru skeleton and bottom engine block (boxer), Toyota sourced out the leg work and development to Subaru… but almost all performance targets and costings and direction came from CE (Toyota).
      - Dudeface
        
        So, what you’re saying is, Toyota said ‘lets build a sports car, we want it to be this and do this’. And then Subaru ‘did the leg work’ and Toyota ‘sourced out the leg work and development to Subaru’. Sounds pretty much like what I was saying all along..
        
        I wonder if Lexus will now say ‘let build a performance saloon, we want it to be blah blah blah’ and then ‘source out the leg work and development’ to BMW? But it will still be a Lexus – right?
    - Schn
      
      Toyota designed the car. The engine is mainly Subaru. But the placing of the engine, the set up of the car, etc. the handling, essentially every other single aspect of this car was a combined job both of Toyota and Subaru.
- Edward
  
  It takes quite a bit of money to develop an entire new platform and chassis. If BMW and Toyota split the cost they halve the development cost of a new model. Plus they will probably target very different markets with the end product so they wont eat into each other’s sales either. It should work in theory..
- Schn
  
  In a sense, it saves money and time, by already have the technology there for you to utilise rather than having to think engineering from scratch.
JamesB

BMW’s know-how on engine and chassis coupled with Toyota’s reliability could translate to the ultimate sports car, but will it be sold under two badges like the 86/BRZ?
- F1
  
  Yeah show me the BMW LFA?
  
  Is there a BMW better and sportier then the Lexus LFA?
  - F1MotoGP
    
    Not at the present moment. BMW had the M1 between 1978 to 1981 and had the BMW M1 Procar Championship.
  - Phil
    
    Do you really think the LFA is representative of the rest of the Toyota/Lexus range?
    - Dominique Vøn Hütch
      
      It is an example of what they can do. And they did it easily. The LFA is a showcase.
      - F1MotoGP
        
        Lamborghini can do it too. Lexus should entered this car at Le Mans and prove it that it will last too.
      - Robert
        
        But lamborghini can’t make cheaper reliable cars like Toyota. for a company to make cheap reliable cars to making blistering quick sexy supercars, they can obviously do anything
      - Schn
        
        Toyota entered a car at Le Mans and one crashed, but the other lasted.
      - Phil
        
        The Toyota’s people actually drive represent what Toyota stands for and that representation demonstrates ugly cars with nasty interiors, poor handling and ridiculously short service intervals. A “showcase” like the LFA means nothing when none of the technology filters down to their mainstream cars like it does with other brands.
        
        BMW’s “showcase” of brilliant handling and engines is in every car they make not just one single model that sits atop a pedestal and no one drives.
      - Dudeface
        
        Couldn’t have said it better myself, Phil. The LFA is an engineering exercise, not representative or relevant to the rest of Toylexus’s lineup. Just like the Veyron was for Volkswagen Auto Group.
    - Kaas
      
      Yes…. the LFA is engineered by Toyota employed Engineers (best ones from Lexus), obtained data from Toyota motorsports feedback (F1, LeMans etc).
      
      LFA is the pinnacle of Toyota’s sports/performance…. it may not be the most horse power nor the fastest/quickest…. but the technology in the LFA is amongst the best. Sure they could of targeted the Veyron for outright power, but it compromises the other technology implemented. Its not easy to explain, you guys need to actually read documents on vehicle design, LFA, Veyron, Enzo etc…. great achievements in sports cars in the last 25 years.
ggg

Awesome. I love both companies. Their partnership just keeps getting better and better.
Al

….maybe Toyota will have spies within BMW now.. R&D for Lexus…
Nick

At the end of the day If this venture brings the consumer better sports cars at affordable prices who cares. It is like the VL Calais turbo which had a Nissan engine. The was the best Holden ever made.
Both companies have there strengths so this is a good thing.
Amlohac

A Lexus built off BMW components seems evident now.
Phil

So where are these articles that say the 86 handles “much better” than BMW’s 1 series? I can’t find a single one. I can however find countless articles on various Toyota models saying Toyota has terrible handling.
Silver Streak

Wow. You Toyota buff’s are something else.

Toyota has superior technology? Really? Have any of you looked at 90% of Toyota’s range? Yaris, Corolla, Camry, Aurion, Hilux, Prado, LandCruiser. They’re all archaic.

And a comment about Toyota making better handling cars than BMW, that won’t even be dignified with an argument!Sure I like my Toyota. It’s always nice to get into a car with nothing but an engine and gearbox that works perfectly. But when I want a high quality, well engineered car with superior technology that handles like no other marque around the place. A car I can carry five people around in comfortably, drive around a track and drive to Sydney and back without breaking my back, I will sit in my BMW. Then I will enjoy my light-weight wallet….
hayski

It’s the rise of the Toyota fanbois! Funny how the car supposedly showcasing Toyota as having better handling than BMW has most of its performance components developed and sourced from Subaru AND is being built at the Subaru manufacturing plant… oh wait my bad. D4S helps the handling of the car.
- D4D
  
  Is Subaru provide the engine and toyota develop the chessis…
- Schn
  
  Combined job in engineering. It doesn’t matter about how they produce it, because the design is already there. You can make one of the best engines in the world and the car itself can be one of the worst handling cars. The job was a combined effort, engineering wise, without both companies, you wouldn’t have the GT86 as it is today.
Legnab

So now toyota can build better handling cars than say an M3 , the sky must be falling in , did you really say that , BMW have been doing all that for 60 years , toyota discovered that by copying other great rear drive cars , pity it has no grunt .
- Kaas
  
  Are you talking about the 86 specifically?
  Because for a sub 30K car, a 4 seater mini Cayman is pretty darn good achievement… not just today but of all time.
  
  The Supra, Chaser, Soarer, MR2 GT… all affordable sports coupes that had great drive and performance proves Toyota knows sports performance.
- Dudeface
  
  Haha, mini Cayman huh.. while we’re making stretches why not go all the way and call the 86 a mini 911? Seriously…
NISMO

Every time a Toymota fanboi comments, a true car enthusiast fairy dies!!
- COPS
  
  Turn off your engine and hand in your license, hoon!
Kaas

VAG group is a threat to Toyota and BMW… hence Toyota and BMW have high interest in joining some sort of alliance to compete in the long run.

I also see Nissan/Renault/Peugeot alliance in the future…. then maybe Mazda needs a snuggle buddy…. Toyota will buy Subaru so it’ll OEMs will combine in the future for sustainability.
Altezza

A good chance for Lexus to know BMW’s luxury appointments.
guest

Ah, that hit the spot. It just wouldn’t be a day without prejudiced people bashing Toyota on Caradvice.
UMWHAT

the way things are going with these alliances why don’t they just make one single global car brand only, everyone allied with everyone
- ggg
  
  Would solve all the drama that goes on in these comment threads.
Iam82082

toyota is the reason why we all drive boring cars that dont break down. thing is they are cheap to buy and run. can BMW with its hero cars that dont break down but are dear to buy and run gain anything from toyota? last I checked BMW was a business, and talking of business toyota is the biggest motor company in the world by revenue. surely what can bmw learn from toyota? how to make money you mugs!
- Phil
  
  When was the last time you checked how much money BMW make, you mug?
  
  I did it for you – 2011 end of financial year BMW made US$6.3 Billion PROFIT (and profit is not the same as revenue). It appears Toyota only made US$0.232 Billion (and Toyota Australia lost money).
  Previously Toyota posted losses including a huge US$4.2 Billion loss in 2009.
Car Fanatic

Let’s look at the facts in Euros

Toyota Revenue €184 billion
BMW Revenue € 60.5 Billion

Toyota Profit: €2.8 Billion
BMW Profit : € 3.2 Billion

Toyota Vehicle Production : 7.86 Million vehicles

BMW Vehicle production : 1.7 Million inc motor cycles.

So Toyota Generate 3 times the revenue

Toyota produce 4.5 times as many vehicles

BMW Profits are 14% Higher!

I can see how Toyota can teach BMW how to be better at business!
- F1MotoGP
  
  I can not see how Toyota can teach BMW. Toyota profit is 1.5% of the revenue, BMW 5.3%. BMW oriented more to luxury market so it is hard to compare.
Car Fanatic

F1, I was being sarcastic!
- Phil
  
  He’s blind with prejudice/rage/something.
NM

This Partnership is a Sign of Changing Times in the automotive industry. The key word here is “Sustainability” as the long term vision. There are a lot of factors that should’ve driven this partnership. most likely:

1) Difficult & Unpredictable Economic Climate – Share Technology & Save Money, resulting in higher margins..!! – ‘Sustainability’

2) Alternate Fuel Technology (fuel cells, hybrid, electric, etc, etc) is the Future: We all know Fossil Fuels are a finite resource, it would run out ”ONE DAY”. even though no one knows when.

I drive a BMW 118D which returns 5.5/100 kms in real world (70% suburb, 30% freeway driving). it’s fuel saving technology. who would’ve thought of a vehicle of this size return such mileage 15 years ago..!! but it is a reality now…

These are signs of natural progression from automakers to sustain their businesses.

BMW is a master of diesel technology & Toyota a master of Hybrid. Sharing these would have great benefits for both.

I think the decision to come out with a Sportscar out of this partnership may have stemmed out later as both makers have have rich heritage of making some memorable sports cars (BMW – E30 M3, Toyota – 2000GT, Supra). However, Toyota lost track in the 2000′s & digressed into making volume oriented vehicles without the fun factor & BMW stayed focused to its heritage of making great sports cars.
Now that there’s been a change in the leadership at Toyota – Akio Toyoda. he plans to turn around & get back to the roots of toyota’s racing heritage & they cannot benefit enough by having BMW assist them through this.
Tom

If this means a BMW with toyota prices spare parts, it is a massive win.