Id definitley have the Jaguar. I think it looks better (for the people who dont like the Jaguars looks, dont forget that the Lexus isnt exactly beautiful) and I think Lexus drivers have a rather bad reputation as characterless wankers (im not saying they all are, just alot of them). I know Jaguar has an old man image with alot of people but I think thats changing. I also think the Jaguar would have a more engaging drive.
If I had the money for this range of car I would definitely pick the XF hands down, probably the diesel version to get around the lack of torque issue. Probably wouldn’t even give the lexus a look in, it simply has no visual presence, like most lexus’s its goopy looking. BMW 5 series is probably a better drive, but I reckon the XF strikes the best balance of driving ability and looks. Plus its a little left field.
Good comparison. The Lexus should win on features alone but they are soulless machines made for dentists.
ok I need to know wtf people are going on about when they say no soul .. I mean you’re no Mark Levinson who’s obviously more passionate than anyone commenting here (passionate with his audio that he only considers Lexus for his work) – then the way these cars are made ( the very depth they go through, ever been to one of their plants?)
Alien, do you know Mark Levinson personally? I doubt it. I don’t know if you’ve realized but a car and a sound system, no matter how good either one may be, are very different things. Nobody here is saying that the Lexus is bad (yet) but they are a bit soulless and characterless mainly because they can be a bit hard to fault if you just want a well sized, pleasant and powerful cruiser. The Jaguar is probably always going to be more a drivers car than a Lexus and you’ll probably always have your Lexus/Mercedes/BMW/Jaguar/Audi lovers that will never go to another brand. Also, is it just possible, maybe just a tiny bit possible that Mark Levinson puts his sound systems in Lexus’ because Lexus offered him the most money? Im sure he is extremely passionate about his Sound Systems but he’s not going to give it to BMW if he’s being offered half the money is he? But he just might if he was offered twice the money. Finally, only considering Lexus? Why not only consider Rolls Royce then? Quieter, even slightly better made again and more status to make a bigger name for himself. Would make more sense…
Jag for me anyday please, the Lexus looks like a cheap Toyoda whitegood painted black with chrome trimmings.. interior, exterior is shocking, very cheap look and feel about it, where as the Jag becomes a completely different class inside and out, sorry but you can’t even compare the two..
I agree with the verdict, but if I was to put my hard earned cash on one of these cars, I’d still pick the GS460. I’d tolerate the fact it isn’t as good looking or doesn’t drive as well purely because I wouldn’t trust the Jag in terms of build quality.
But the true winner in my opinion is the Mercedes CLS. I wonder why the CLS never gets a mention?
How much are the options on the Jag, because it’s $5k cheaper to start with.
I would always buy the better car even if it had a few less toys on it, and in this case, it is by far the Jaguar.
we all knew mondeo>camry
Beauty in eye of owner! Myself and most of the mates at the office actually think the Jag looks absolutely ugly up front though the back is lovely (aston martin copycat – sorry for pun). Somehow the Jag looks like a cheap Ford Falcon pasted on up front, they made a huge mistake with this design.
The great debate about “pedigree” versus substance is still very strong and I think in most instances, “pedigree” wins. Remember how Merc used this pseudologic against BMW 30 years ago? Then in the 80’s/90’s BMW used it against Audi……….enough said, now the German fans use it against Lexus. Heard it all before.
I can’t comprehend how the label “driver’s car” can be used anymore. We’ve got 50-60 kph speed limits in most roads and speed cameras around every corner. The majority of us don’t go to the speed track Mon-Fri…..we commute to work!
Lexus should have been the clear winner in this shoot-out IMO. No I’m not a dentist and yes, I’ve owned a few German autos.
OK NOW BRING ON THE arguments from the “True Drivers” and “Pedigree Fans”!!
Victory – I agree the CLS is a pretty special package, however when I drove it I couldn’t abide the tiny side windows – I felt as if I was trapped in a metal bath-tub unable to see outside.
Gift-Ed, for the V8 with B & W stereo plus sunroof, around $143K plus stamps, pre LCT increase. The stereo is a $2,500 option on the PL pack, from memory, and it is amazingly good – far better than the volvo PL stystem, which is known to be very good. Heated/cooled seats are a few grand as well (come with heated steering wheel – strewth!). For me, the Jag is the pick (and I picked it). It is a little slower, but when you drive a car that beautiful, you dont need to blast people from the lights coz you’ve got nothing to prove.
Saying that your car has “character” is an admission that you are willing to repeatedly fix problems with the car because of less than perfect design or build quality. I once owned an Alfa Romeo and it had heaps of character! Why is it that if a car has excellent build quality, more options, lower price and better reliability it gets labelled as bland? I guess thats the best insults all the badge snobs can come up with.
To all you Lexus bashers , I would rather have a toyota rather a crapy Ford ! I am sure like the writer said the realiability issues have not been tested …….I think the writer is still biased by the looks… It looks like a done up Mondeo but slightly larger. I guess it does not matter what we think in Australia because Lexus is the luxury leader in the US where the market is.
About the only thing they Mondeo and Jag have in common is the Chassis and as you probably know- Ford a renowned world wide for being one the best when it comes to tuning a chassis. Suspension and overall handling, Ford of Europe have it in spades.
This car is a standing testament to Geoff Polites whose job it was to pull Jaguar out of the 20th Century and throw it head first into the next. “Crappy Ford” as you put it is (Especially in FoE’s case) is totally unsubstantiated. Why assume there will be reliability Issues? I don’t ever remember hearing about massive recalls of Jags for a very long time.
IMHO, Lexus lacks character (known as “Soul” to some). Sure, the car is packed full of features but the design smacks of generic traits that allow it to blend into a sea of blandness. When your spending $130k+ on a vehichle- I would want there to be something unique. Something that sets it appart. The Jag trumps the Lexus, right down to its questionable nose.
Toyota (and Lexus) get labelled boring or bland because there is no sense of occasion when you drive them. When I drove the LS, GS and IS, I was thinking “this is a nice place to sit in and it’s quiet” but was nothing memorable. When you drive a Jag or a BMW, there’s a sense that the people who made and designed the car have a passion for cars. It’s that indefinable bit that Toyota can’t find.
You get the same feeling when driving a Corolla compared to a Focus.
Toyota are good at putting cars together well, but not cars that people lust over.
And you can’t really use the US market as the benchmark for how good a car is – the general buying public over there have shown again and again that they don’t know much about cars. They made the Hummer successful.
As for reliability, Jag has long been past the reliability issues. Reliability surveys consistently put Jag up towards the pointy end now.
Just one other thing – the writer says Jag has limited experience, and that the XF is the first of its kind – what kind is that? The XF is built on a heavily modified version of the S-Type’s platform and they have been building a mid-size luxo for a few years now.
I’d take the Lexus as a Daily Driver and have something ‘characterful’ for the weekend. I do like the Lexus because it deliver’s exactly what you expect and has the best ownership packadge of any car on sale…
Quote from article
“The other issue with the Jaguar is its limited ‘experience’ in this field. The XF is the first of its kind and we’re yet to see how well it will fare in the marketplace in terms of reliability and durability.”
Ummm Limited experience??? How long has the Jaguar nameplate been with us? Reliability issues have not been a problem for Jag since Ford’s ownership was able to take affect, and it is way to early to say that Tata’s has had an effect on the build Quality.
You also state the GS has been with us for 3 years? sorry it was released in Aus in 97, as a six and was in the US from about 95 so they should have it pretty close to right one would think.
However that’s my journo bash either car would be a nice option in Australia where ultimate speed and handling are not usable. I would go the Jag cause I’m old. 😉
The jag without a doubt is the winner here, it looks sensational, and that interior…
If i was dropping this sort of money i would just have to get the supercharged version though.
And also how is it that both these cars can return 6 cylinder commodore and falcon like fuel economy, with v8 engines?
The Jaguar is good looking? Dear god!
– A grill that looks like a Whale Sharks mout.
– Brakelights which just cut and stop above some cheap looking chrome.
After 3,000 odd kms, I am averaging 15 litres/100km in the V8 XF, driving mainly around town (better than the 20 litres I was getting initially).
I might be off the mark, but to me, the Lexus is a car that you buy after the application of much common sense, and you then rationalise why it is better value or a better car than a european. You dont need any excuse or rationalisation to buy the Jag.
Bucket, please read
Jaguar XF MY2009 vehicles – Rear Seat Belt D-Loops
Supplier Name: Jaguar Australia
Product Make: Jaguar
Product Model: XF
Target Number: 187
Model Years From: MY2009
Campaign Number: J007
VIN Range: R00019 to R22438
Defect Details: A minority of vehicles built up until VIN R22438 may have had seat belt D-loops fitted where the D-loops may not freely rotate. The seat belt may not run freely when the rear seat belts are being pulled out, and should a vehicle suffer a moderate to heavy front impact, the rear seat occupants may not be fully restrained.
Consumer action: Contact your Jaguar dealer
Market Coverage: National
Recall Coverage: National
for all those complaining about the jags headlights, have a look at the lexus, way too much chrome, and what is with the wierd lights next to the grill…looks half done.
and plus the lexus dash is nothing compared to the jaguar, its just black blandness, a camry dash with a bigger screen imo
I am biased towards Lexus. You basically get the common sense that Japanese cars have, with a decent brand.
When I see Lexus drivers, I think they know how to enjoy motoring and I assume they’re thinking “you don’t know what you’re missing”.
The Jag looks like an Aston Martin and the Lexus looks like an Aurion.
Jag looks magnificent. Jag looks a million dollars.
Lexus looks like another Toyota.
Lexus buyers should compare an Aurion Presara and save some money.LOL.
I can assure you, the Lexus line is nothing like it’s Toyota counterparts.
Take for example the IS250 and the Camry. Drove the Camry as a hire car up in Cairns and the steering feels like it’s floating. There’s no communication and it’s as light as a cloud. There’s some twisty bits about in Cairns and the car was such a let down. By comparison, the IS250 feels very BMW E46 3 Series-ish, quite communicative, maybe a bit light (but this suits a large chunk of Lexus IS customers) but still direct and not too numb/dead around the center.
With that said, there is no way i’d compare the Corolla, Camry and Aurion to the IS and GS when it came to handling and performance.
Looks? 100% Jag. It looks amazing. Especially in the metal. In a sea of traffic, you’d be hard pressed to pick out the lexus, where as you’d spot that jag so quickly, since it looks so good. I’ve never really been a fan of Jag’s but this one is really changing my mind. I like everything about it.
But i’ve always been a huge fan of lexus as well. If i had the money, i’d get both.
Lexus anyday for me please. Jag = Ford crap. Everyone knows how crap Fords are!
Some people will never understand why the Jag is better. It’s better because it gives you a feeling that old guys with tweed jackets have designed it to give you, the driver, something every time. If you bought the XF now would you remember it in 20 years? Would you with the Lexus?
Do you want to be the guy who remembers buying a $140K car based on pure logic and reliability? Life’s too short for that. Flippy vents, pulsating start buttons and heritage win for me. The Lexus may be more sensible but who cares?
Who cares, a sh*t load of people !!
Lexus please … thank-you
Jag – poorer quality
Lexus – nothing comes better quality
I dont hat Lexus, but remember toyota built the lexus brand so that it can get into the luxury business….theyToyota’s are “reliable” because they dont have much things to go wrong!…Then they bring in Lexus…lots of things to go woring…equal footing for all brands in terms of quality…
..thus, Jag for me!
I think what people are forgetting here is that yes, the Lexus is fantastically well built but the Jaguar isnt badly built, infact quite the opposite. The Jaguar is very well built, its just next to a Lexus, its never going to win is it?
Lexus = Toyota, hmmmmmm we all know how bland and boring they are, Jaguar is superior in every way.
Anti spam word Suzuki, now theres a Japanese manufacturer that has more character and presence than any Toyoda vehicle..
Today I saw a circa 1989 Jaguar Sovereign driver open his door while stopped at traffic lights and empty out the 20 odd cigarette butts from the ashtray onto the road. A drain was about one metre away.
I was disgusted and no longer have any respect towards Jaguar drivers.
Nice observation Non Smoker, but I have seen the same thing from a asian Lexus driver around ahhhhh you guess right Toorak, not good coming from a dressed up whitegood with extra chrome trimmings..
How can you have respect for Toyoda, a company who has cheated in every motorsport classification, I think this is worse than a few butts on the road..
hey, Non-Smoker! As a non-smoking jag driver I am devastated that you have no respect for me…boo-hoo!!! I will have to console myself driving my beautiful, beautiful jag…(sniff!)
Team Vodafone, please leave the racial sterotyping out of this discussion please.
I guess one of these is for the head and the other for the heart..
Having a father who worked for Jaguar Australia between 1974-2004 i can tell you that Jaguar quality is, while greatly improved in the ninties, nowhere near the Japanese, mainly let down by Ford trying to get a profit on the billion they paid for Jag back in the day and leading to compromise’s in transmission, etc.
Well i work for the Japanese and while the owners may lack the ‘passion’ present for the Jag, they are generally pretty smart people and outright handling ‘at the limit’ is low on their shopping list.
Besides they usually have something else nice in the garage anyway.. “for the weekend”
None of the above thanks – C63 AMG or soon to be available M3 sedan for me.
That Jag rear end is beautiful though… pity the front is average… and the Lexus is a good effort but there’s something about it that turns me off. I’d get a 5 series BMW in that size bracket.
The article starts off saying ’ If you were ever after an alternative to the BMW 5-series or the Mercedes Benz E-class, you really only had one option – the Lexus GS.’ First car that comes to mind is without a doubt the Audi A6. The Lexus interior definitely gives me Toyota vibes, whereas the Audi never gives you a Volkswagen vibe. I’d opt for the Jag, ‘cause as some already mentioned, buying a car is not all about logic, but about the feeling. How else could you argue for spending that much on a vehicle.
Sorry about that Philip, you’re right.
Audi have been offered very little in terms of test vehicles of late, so it was an unintentional neglect of mention. The A6 slipped my mind.
Hey DanMan, my old Boss in the 80’s owned the biggest Jaguar Dealership in Johannesburg and he loved Jag’s but even he had to admit that the quality was terrible back then. As far as Ford ownership goes, Ford bought Jaguar in the early 90’s and far from draining Jaguar’s coffers Ford invested billions into Jaguar and even though it was a very slow process quality slowly improved, right up to the current range which everyone agrees is far better than when Ford took over. And what are you saying DanMan about transmissions? I seem to remember the infamous old Jaguar J-gate !! Now there was a hell of a transmission eh! How can a so called expert like you even compare the J-gate to the current ZF 6 spd.
BTW I wonder what your dad thinks about you working for Toyota?
Id buy the Jaggie hands down compared to the Lexus GS, the Lexus GS looks like a hybrid Toyota/Honda Accord, however, I’d rethink it and buy the Lexus GS because I know for sure that hunk of metal will last up to 270,000 miles in the long run, will be cheaper to fix, and will be more reliable. However, id rethink it and buy the Jag, cuz if I want to spend that much money, Id just buy the effen Jag, period. In other words, if you want reliability, dont a ton of money on premium whips, buy an accord, until then, buy the Jag if you want that luxury look and feel, dang
I’m a soul-less dentist and I am going to buy the Lexus GS. If I want a sporty ride I drive my Porsche Carrera S. There is no need to buy a luxury 4 door car when you want a sports car. If you want excitement buy a dedicated sports car or book for a root canal at my office. If you want luxury, buy a Lexus.
Yeah, I’d have to have the Jaguar.
TP, seriously, you don’t have taste!
My dad just traded his bmw m5 in and brought the new jag.in the mountains the jag fell more planted better controled.but the lack of the low down touque is a real issue. Cruising along the highway is a nicer affair the the m5
Do you buy a car based on an emotional appeal, or do you see it as an appliance to carry you from A to B with minimum fuss and maximum reliability?
Lexus produtcts and Lexus service set standards for both above that the Germans have failed to provide; Ford and now India have owned Jaguar for long enough to prove their worth in these areas – if they could. Have they done so?
When you make a major investment in a manufactured product such as a car, ask yourself how long do you intend to use it and what do you hope to receive from the experience.
Lexus has consistently topped quality assessments worldwide because the experience of owning a Lexus, having it serviced and using it on a daily basis overcomes any lesser superficial judgements regarding driving excitement, styling or suburban snob appeal. With lower operating costs, higher resale value and stone axe reliability, Lexus will continue to trounce Jaguar.
This is really cool… thanks alot
I have heard of an example of the Lexus GS430,powered by previous generation 4292cc V8 engine yielding 221kw(300ps),being able to post 0-100km/h in 5.21sec!,much faster than quoted data of 6.1sec. Thus well run-in,loosen up example with proper engine oil can surpass manufacturer data,I’m confident of.
So well loosen-up guise of GS460(347bhp) could mark around 5sec flat(4.8-5.1sec) for 0-100km/h times,I expect.
G6E Turbo and 6.0 Calais AFM kills them both for value for money , reliability , running costs, performance and at the same time “technology”