Comments on: Chrysler expands use of Dual Clutch technology

By: kris

kris — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 00:02:32 +0000

The DSG gear box was designed and is built by the US Borg-Warner company not VW as many think.
Corolla drivers don`t know what there missing yeer right like high service fee`s $120 pegged for three years on the Corolla and iffy electric`s on most euro-snob cars.
kris

By: Fan Forced

Fan Forced — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 22:51:16 +0000

You Don’t have to justify driving a VW to me Reckless.
We are talking about the Chrysler trans which they even call an auto if you you would have looked. Get ya facts strait buddy!
Keep reading those reviews!

By: Reckless1

Reckless1 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 08:06:30 +0000

Fan Forced, the clutch in no way works as a torque converter, if you believe that you might buy a bridge I can get cheap. It doesn’t matter that the clutches run in oil. The latest DSG from VW, the market leader in these transmissions, runs dry clutches.

It doesn’t matter what Caradvice calls this transmission, it’s a manual with automatic shifting, with no characteristics of a torque converter slushbox.

It has the ability to masquerade as a fully auto transmission, or the driver can involve himself by using the paddles or lever, just doesn’t have a clutch pedal.

By: Fan Forced

Fan Forced — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 23:51:19 +0000

Reckless. In what way do you think this is a manual trans?
The duel clutch still works as the torque converter and is submerged in auto fluid, all gear shifting are controlled hydraulically, in the first sentence car advice even refer to the trans as a Dual Clutch six speed automatic transmission? Being a different configuration in shafts and power distribution to the trans does not make it a manual transmission. I’m sorry, having paddles to shift does not mean you are driving a manual princess.

By: Reckless1

Reckless1 — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 03:22:44 +0000

Fan forced, I don’t agree that we are talking about an Auto trans – this article is about Chryslers dual clutch manual with automated shifts.

I repeat my first statement – the torque converter auto is being relegated to history.

Any auto, whether it’s the Falcon one or VW’s DSG can have its decision on which gear to select confused by rapid throttle on-off. Even if the Falcon box can change in .5 second, that’s a hell of a lot slower than the 8ms of VW’s DSG – the DSG can change gears 62.5 times in the time it takes the Falcon to change once.

The DSG box is now appearing everywhere as manufacturers have to meet ever more stringent emissions guidelines, and the torque converter auto can no longer compete.

Fuel injection has replaced carburettors, pretty soon every engine will be direct injected to replace the now primitive throttle body and manifold injection systems.

Meanwhile I’m loving my car with DSG, and direct injected Turbo 2.0l engine. Corolla drivers don’t know what they are missing :)

By: Fan Forced

Fan Forced — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 00:29:26 +0000

So Dynamic, what you are saying is the EVO X can change directly from 5th to 3rd on the same shaft as quickly as a conventional auto in 0,25sec? Did you read that in a review somewhere or are you taking a guess like in your other comments noob? I’m only relaying what I have been told from a major transmission manufacturer? I could be wrong. If there is any proof of this, I am more than happy to eat my words.
Reckless: We are also talking about a automatic trans not a manual, even the latest Falcon AUTO trans predicts what gear you need according to speed and throttle position and can change to what ever gear it chooses within half a second???
Don’t get me wrong, i’m not saying i don’t like the new duel clutch systems, all i am doing is pointing out some disadvantages of this system.

By: WVB

WVB — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 23:26:26 +0000

^dynamic, That’s right these are not race cars so why fit largely derived race technology to save 5 more grams/km of CO from the already paltry 200grams the car likely produces. Thinking smarter as you say would result in a simpler solution not a complicated one. This would make things easy and not harder by definition.
…………..based on your irascible response to my thoughts I’d say your sponsor lazyskillessf*cksdotcom wants a word in their office, tewl!!!

By: Mac

Mac — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 09:30:09 +0000

Aren’t these more likely to replace automatic transmissions rather than manuals in mass market cars. VW have already said that there will no longer be any automatics in their Golf – it will be manuals or these.

By: Reckless1

Reckless1 — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 08:42:47 +0000

DSG doesn’t need to skip from 3rd to 5th – it can change from 3rd to 4th to 5th faster than a manual transmission ever could.

It is possible to “confuse” the DSG if you try, by changing the throttle to on-off quickly, so it can’t predict what you are doing. But the same problem occurs with a manual box.

The DSG, however, can be put in manual mode, and it will hold gears when you aren’t likely to be travelling in “normal linear” style. You can then upshift with the paddles or the lever, and let the box downshift, which it will do even when in manual mode.

By: Dynamic

Dynamic — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 08:23:19 +0000

Fan Forced, actually they can. The new EXO X dual clutch transmission can actually do this and is one of the first dual clutch systems to implement this. It’s all in the software and you will see more performance cars implementing this in their dual clutch transmissions.

By: Dynamic

Dynamic — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 08:20:09 +0000

WVB have you ever heard of the expression work smarter not harder to achieve the same result? Probably not based on your stupid response. Hard seasoned race veterans rave on highly about these new transmissions. These are street cars NOT RACE cars. If you want to feel connected to the road steer a go cart fewl!!!

By: Fan Forced

Fan Forced — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 04:44:31 +0000

Yes the Duel Clutch systems do have their good points but also have some bad also. Because of preselecting gears and having 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th on one shaft and the alternate on the other they cannot skip shift gears from 5th to 3rd like conventional auto trans and is much needed in everyday driving such as overtaking. So it is much of a muchness with fuel efficiency, OK they can shift up and down very quickly but when it comes down to picking the right gear for the job they have the lag. Personally I don’t think these trans will be the be all and end all, they will just end up being a yo-yo fad that go in and out of fashion.
I think keep the manual manual!! Everyone is just getting to lazy to drive sports cars!!
Steer On Guys!!!

By: WVB

WVB — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 00:39:59 +0000

^Richo – Porsche, merc, vw, nissan etc use the type to reduce gear shift times providing smoother transition of ratios and therefore through subsequent reduction of throttle manipulation and engine etc, emissions are reduced yes, yes. But as a result less driver involvement is required, less skill required, less enjoyment had, less achievement realised and dumber people use .
it’s a bit like stability control, yaw sensing etc, there all added to keep gamers alive and commuters safe in the real world.
Unless it’s the really sharp end of FI or indy I’m with Clarkson and Hammond on this………..
I know the conventional manual is dead sad though that is.

By: Reckless1

Reckless1 — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 00:23:32 +0000

WVB, do you also still drive a VW beetle with cable brakes – that was pretty simple. In those days they were averse to watercooling, due to its massive complexity, weight, and potential for a lot of future high mileage anguish and repair costs.

Plenty of production cars are using a CVT at the moment, they are not the answer.

Dual clutch is the flavour of the next 10 years or more until something better comes along. It’s the easiest way to get the 6,7, or even 8 ratios required for fuel efficiency.

By: Richo

Richo — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 00:11:19 +0000

WVB – the use of dual clutch has been shown to lower fuel consumption and emissions. Look at the current 911 carrera, with the dual clutch is uses less fuel and produces less emissions then a new toyota camry, and we are talking bout a sports car here!

By: WVB

WVB — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 00:04:43 +0000

As I said elsewhere, I believe these transmissions are far too complicated, will be costly to maintain, heavy and will cause a lot of future high mileage anguish among users. I’m not afraid nor misunderstand this technology as I have been 20+ years in the repair game. This technology is really only trickle down from racing just to sell cars. They shave lap times not grams of CO2 so therefore think their use is questionable.
I have a car with gears and a dry plate clutch. It is very simple to use. It gives feed back and relies on me knowing what I’m doing.
Performance road cars don’t need high tech, just strength, enjoyment and a return feeling of being in command.
In terms of family vehicles like these, transmission technology needs simplicity, cost effectiveness and lightweight. A CVT.

btw, a Chrysler Avenger? LOL, The Hillman Hunter is back!!

By: Reckless1

Reckless1 — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:56:53 +0000

The torque converter auto is being relegated to history.