Holden's future models: small car certain, large car questionable | CarAdvice

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Holden’s future models: small car certain, large car questionable

By Jez Spinks |
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Holden will build a next-generation small car in Australia as part of its newly announced co-investment with federal and state governments, but the future of the Commodore as a large, rear-wheel drive vehicle looks ominous.

The local car maker revealed today that it would build two all-new vehicles in the second half of the decade as part of a $1 billion-plus, 10-year commitment to local manufacturing that would see the company receive a $275 million contribution from Australian taxpayers.

The company says the two models will be based on global architectures within the empire of parent company General Motors, but is not confirming officially whether they will be small and large cars like the current Cruze and Commodore assembled in Adelaide.

Holden boss Mike Devereux hinted strongly in an interview with Australian journalists today that one of the models will be a small car, with a next-generation version of the Cruze that is a global car and currently built in Australia highly likely.

A new-generation Holden Commodore, dubbed VF, will go on sale in 2013 using the existing ‘Zeta’ platform developed by Holden, but the new VF model could have a relatively short lifespan as the manufacturer looks to react to dwindling sales of large cars.

Devereux said Holden’s investment in the VF Commodore was proof it still believed in large cars but was evasive when asked if it was committed to large cars beyond that model’s lifecycle.

“I think there is a future for cars bigger than Cruzes and Corollas, and I think there will be some innovations both in size and contenting in those vehicles that will make them very viable and very relevant for Australians,” Devereux said.

“Our goal is to stem that decline [in large car sales], and then frankly figuring out what that vehicle larger than a Cruze, Corolla or Mazda3 looks like for Australia is part of the magic of the auto industry.”

Devereux, however, wouldn’t be drawn on whether he thought there was a future for cars bigger than a Malibu, the new General Motors medium car that goes on sale in Australia in late 2012.

“I’m not going to go down that path [saying I believe in cars bigger than medium cars] because I think we have a pretty smart plan and it’s going to take three, four or five years to execute that plan and then maybe in 2015 or early 2016 I might be able to answer that question [about the future of large cars].”

The move to locally built vehicles based on global platforms means the prospect of a future Commodore, presuming the emotive nameplate is retained, being shared with a front-wheel-drive General Motors medium car can’t be ruled out.

The current Commodore, as is expected with the forthcoming models, was a $1 billion investment on its own but is not a true global car, with its underpinnings used for limited models such as the Chevrolet Camaro muscle car (above) that was designed and developed by Holden.

A completely different body style could also be under consideration. Sales of SUVs and crossover-style vehicles – such as the Nissan Dualis – continue to boom with no signs of waning.

That compares to plummeting sales of large cars, which have seen the Ford Falcon record its lowest sales in the nameplate’s history in 2011 and the Commodore last year losing its ‘Best-selling car in Australia’ status to the Mazda3 small car.

Holden says the likelihood of the Australian dollar maintaining parity for some time with the US ‘greenback’ means building a case for exports for the new models is made harder.

Devereux admits it anticipated selling more units of the Commodore-based Chevrolet Caprice police car in the United States.

One possible saviour for a rear-wheel-drive large car, however, could be speculation that Chevrolet is planning a new NASCAR racer that would be based on the Caprice.

Chevrolet started rumours after saying earlier this month that its 2013 NASCAR challenger would “be based on a new nameplate to the brand’s line-up”, ruling out the existing race car based on the Chevy Impala or other current models such as the Malibu or Cruze.

More compact, rear-wheel-drive platforms also exist in the GM world, such as the one used for Cadillac’s BMW 3-Series-rivalling ATS. (Holden teased with the idea of a compact, rear-wheel-drive car with the Torana TT36 concept back in 2004 – pictured below.)

Devereux says today’s announcement provides “a very strong, bright future for a 10-year guarantee for Adelaide”, adding that Holden will also continue to play a crucial role in GM’s global design and product development.

“Our engineering and design teams will continue to work on things that will be built in this country, though perhaps more importantly we will connect our design and engineering teams far more directly into doing work – as they have in the past but with increasing role – in GM’s international operations, designing and engineering things that may or may not be built in this country.

“So it’s a pretty good future and that has been part of this negotiation both with the government, plural, and internally with GM as a global entity. It has been a very complex negotiation and I think we have a very strong outcome for the country and from an alliance standpoint, but certainly for all of Holden’s employees.”

Holden’s engine plant in Port Melbourne is not part of its agreement with the Australian federal or state governments and its future remains the subject of discussion.


 

  • Infraboy

    Currently commodore sales are at 4000 per month, they talk as if they’re monopolizers of small cars..

    They cannot compete with the likes of Toyota, Mazda etc in the smaller segment.. If they axe commodore tommorow, then they could kiss good-bye 4000 per month, or almost half their total brand sales in Australia..

    And what’s with Holden going ‘global’, GM is the owner, and they have other badges for other markets.. U.S has over 300 million people, I highly doubt they’re in need for any Australian designers and engineers..

    • Adelaide_john

      commodore at 4000 per month
      you need to look at the numbers, more like lucky to be reaching 3000

      • F1MotoGP

         ..or could be less if we only count private buyers. More and more companies buying economical cars. Just look at the petrol price.

    • Robert Ryan

       GM  the global entity cannot compete against Toyota, Mazda either. GM has major problems competing against the Koreans and Japanese in the North American and European markets.

      • Dave S

        Ummm..Isn’t Mazda struggling outside Australia. aren’t they trying to find 2B dollars to fund 2 new plants.?

      • Shak

        Still the worlds Number 1 Automaker, and quite profitable at last count, so again how are they struggling?

  • Infraboy

    Let’s not forget, small cars have by far smaller margins compared to large cars..

  • Jon

    Hope to see new Torana back on road :)

  • Robin_Graves

    Holden will just be an outpost riveting and glueing together Daewoos.

    • Joker

      want to move forward from 2004 and join the real world in 2012?

      • Simon Dale

        He is correct. Holden is slowly becoming a CKD manufacturer.

        • Dave S

          How?

          Toyota does very little except assemble their world car.

          Ford, do a great job selling their Falcon and territory.

          How could Holden be coming a CKD? Completely developed the VE and it’s many veriations. Even Holden’s short time with the Cruze (a global platform, which is shared with the Astra) has given us some Aussie spec only elements.

          Holden does Millions of K’s of development testing in Australia. No one would more testing for Australia than Holden, hardly something a CKD manufacturer would do.

      • Robin_Graves

        Im talking about 2016 now, you are the one stuck in 2004.  Daewoo will even make the Holden badge for Holden to glue on (and the glue)

        • Mattyman1010

          Except for the fact that Daewoo doesn’t exist…

          • Robin_Graves

            We all know that Daewoo is alive and well (much healthier than Holden it seems!) Getting the signwriters in to change the signs out the front of the factory doesnt make them disappear.

  • Ramjet

    Holden will probably continue with the Cruze and probably a CX5 sized SUV off the same platform. May as well start winding up the Super Hoon V8 series as they wont have any Commodores or Falcons to race by 2016.

    • Dave S

      So you think V8 supercars will just close down the ‘greatest show on earth’. I dont think so. Follow the series and you will see how big the sport is.

  • Shak

    People need to read between the lines when it comes to Holden PR. They said “new cars” not “new nameplates” which could mean that the Commodore could be migrating to Alpha and still stay RWD. Mike also said cars above the size of the Cruze, so he could simply mean the Commodore is getting slightly smaller. Most people are sure that the Cruze is staying here for the long haul. Funny thing is considering the Commodore is still selling almost the same amount as the Cruze, and Large cars have much higher profit margins it would be logical to suggest that Commodore could remain profitable at its current production levels for at least the next 6-8 years.
    Well at least its good that Holden is confident enough to commit to building two models in Australia for the long run.

    • Andrew M

      I also read that with small cars they need to sell twice as many (or there abouts) to achieve the same profit per unit.
      I’ve also read in financial news that its been confirmed that the Commodore will be wound up in 5 years from now……
      I also think the 2 cars will come from the same platform.

      Whats interesting is that Ford has been quiet of late. Normally its the Falcon getting talked of extinction.
      I think they are giving themselves till about June to decide on future plans.

      I dont think Medium cars will work, thats just buying into an even smaller market than large cars, and thats saying something.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Karl-Sass/100000921334936 Karl Sass

        I think a lot of people would consider a medium sized car if it was RWD (and affordable).
        If Holden were to make the Commodore slightly smaller, I think most of the ‘Holden faithful’ would follow, but it would also attract a lot of buyers that are riding the current car off because it’s too large. 
        Seems to be a lot of support for the Torana concept.

        • horsie

          Well the origional commodore was a medium sized car so why not.

    • Robert Ryan

       I think that is a real positive. Getting suppliers involved in the supply chain globally, like BTR has been providing brakes for the Corvette is a good move.

  • Robj

    ha ha, Greens said they should make electric cars here…no idea..

  • Peanut

    Build the Monaro and Commodore will be back to #1 guaranteed.

    • Sydlocal

       I would be pretty sure that if the Monaro was really that popular they would still be making it. Businesses don’t usually just stop making something that is popular just for the fun of it. It is a shame though, as it was a really good looking car…

  • Dave S

    I guess the problem for Holden is post Vf, they need (maybe) to down size a little. But, if they downsize too much it will become smaller than many medium sized cars. I doubt very much Holden want to sell a Commodore which is smaller than the Mondeo, Maliboo, or Aurion ect..

  • Springvale Boi

    When Safeway petrol “that stuff :) ” are at 156.9cpl it easy to see why people are buying small cars. Ford should have built the small cars in Aus.

    • Matthew Werner

      But with the high Aussie dollar, they are better off building them in Thailand and shipping them over, got the benefits of their lower costs and the FTA. Ask Holden just how much they make on each Cruze…

  • Raysa110

    why not build the “torana” it still looks fresh and basically is a mini commodore

  • Rodders

    hmmm my 10 cents worth,  Holden Will do the Cruze of course…then maybe around 2017/18 build an Aussie version, of the next version of Malibu in Sedan/hatch/Wagon variants in FWD & AWD to go up against next Gen Mondeos/Mazda6/Camry etc….the “future” post 2018 Commodore version may well be built off a variation of the “Alpha” platform & may well be built overseas…..think of a larger Caddy ATS for a premium Commodore…….as said just my 10 cents worth :)

  • Doctor

    I’ll put in my 11 cents worth (10 cents plus carbon tax oncost).
    A medium sized car won’t work now, and large cars will continue to shrink in volume.
    What it needs is a SUV (pretend 4wd if you like) similar to Mazda’s CX-5.

    • Golfschwein

      That’ll actually  be ten point oh seven cents. And the government will refund that!

  • GexDepro

    If this Opel thing works they should probably start sending Astra cars down the production line. Lets face it – if GFC hadn’t happened then thats what they would have been putting through the factory right now. Cruze is based on the platform developed for the new Astra so adding some German bits to the Korean parts bin shouldn’t be a problem.

    • Robert Ryan

       I think the Opel thing is dead. Opel in Europe is barely surviving.

  • Leann5

    My god     the amount of money thats been handed over to GM in the last few years is ridiculous!! Why the hell would any government trust any part of GM anymore? They lied and lied to the US Gov and then put their hand out for $80 BILLION !!!  Why would anyone give them another $200 Million? Someone from Gm must be kneeling under Julias desk……. 

    • Robert Ryan

       It will cost us a LOT more if there is no car industry. 200,000 jobs to start. I like Combet’s idea (Not a new one) that suppliers should target other industries i.e Defence, Marine.

  • Aus_poppa

    I think we are all making a mistake. Today’s medium cars are tomorrow’s large cars. Indeed the Mondeo/Fusion and Malibu, Passat, Accord and Avensis/Camry are as large as volume cars will need to be as this decade goes on. 

    The RWD cars sold outside Australia are only a tiny fraction of the markets in which they are sold – they are minority cars, except for Mercedes and BMW, so whilst the Falcon will go within five years (or will it be three?) the RWD Commodore won’t be far behind, and anyone who thinks that the market will care about this is living on another planet.

    At the end of the day car manufacturers are about making money not serving nostalgia – that is reserved for Morgan.

  • Roadtard

    TT36.  Mmmmmm yes!

  • john

    The fact that large cars are not purchased by private buyers anymore is because the so called “small” car nowadays is quite sizeable. A cruze is as big inside (or bigger) than a VB/C commodore. Small cars have become larger which means the mid size car then grows in size to compensate and then the large car becomes a behometh that no one actually needs unless you like travelling interstate or like a V8/turbo 6!

    • Gibwater

      I’d have to agree.Mazda 3′s,Corolla’s and even the Cruze are selling because they’re the same size as a Commodore or EH Holden used to be.The size most buyers want has never changed. The future is medium,SUV and possibly hybrid.I hope Holdens two new cars reflect this. I love Holdens,having owned several including HT,HG,VB and VK,but I went Japanese years ago as they simply no longer had anything in their range that appealed-either too big,or Korean import.Hardly an attractive choice. They seriosly need to change direction. Also,how about bringing back utes that are actually made for work?!

    • Dave S

      The Cruze is not as big as the VB Commodore.
      The Crzue is both shorter and narrower than the VB.
      Many people at the time thought the VB was too small, and was a replacement for the Torana and not the Kingswood.
      The Commodore was wider. The Cruze gets a lot of it’s length from being FWD which adds to some front overhang.

  • Gibwater

    Two new Daewoos to be built in Australia,at taxpayers expense! Truth is,if they’d built cars people actually wanted to begin with,they wouldn’t need our money.This also applies to Ford.Move with the times or go away.

    • Andrew

      Fleet or private a sales is a sales and Holden has the most domestic sales out of thec3 of them they are clearly building about 90000 of something someone wants . . .

    • F1MotoGP

       My info tells me there is NO Daewoo!.
      Daewoo (Hangul: 대우. Korean for “Great Universe”) or the Daewoo Group was a major South Korean chaebol (conglomerate). It was founded on 22 March 1967 as Daewoo Industrial and was dismantled by the Korean government in 1999. Fate: Bankrupt

      • Robin_Graves

        Look up wikipedia GM Korea;In 2001 General Motors bought most of Daewoo Motor’s assets to form GM Daewoo. The new company started operations on October 17, 2002, with GM and its partners Suzuki andSAICholding a stake of 66.7% with investments of US$400 million. The GM holding was formally purchased by GM Holden Ltd which holds a seat on the board and is legally responsible for GM Daewoo. 

        Read the rest, it clearly shows that Barina, Spark, Cruze and Craptiva are DAEWOO

        • Sydlocal

           …and Wikipedia is the final authority on everything….. (TIC) ;-)

          So does the fact that versions of the Camaro and Corvette are made in South Korea mean that they are Daewoos as well? Just asking as there has to be some consistency with your line of thinking!

  • Henry Toussaint

    A few Days ago, I saw the new colorado ute in white with things on the roof, maybe testing the roof weight, anyway it didn’t look too bad!