How weak, carnt fit a spare tyre in,old style injection and I bet it stinks like a cab
Not the stinky abdul smell from the cab driver, gas
Why make such comments before test driving one?
You don’t need to test drive it to know there is no spare wheel (and no runflat tyres!).
but the comment did not say that no spare wheel was the problem.
Yes it did, why would it not be a problem, its not that hard to understand
And Quote “For those that want the reassurance of a spare tyre, a space-saver or full-size spare can be added to the boot, while a deflated spare wheel is also available on sportwagon models”
Sounds like someone has NEVER owned a EFI LPG car before
If you buy this over a Falcon Eco LPI u got rocks in ur head – this engine is as old as the parthenon, comparing apples with apples Ford’s engine kills it!
You are criticising the Holden V6’s for being old? These engines are both only a few years old, while the Ford I6 dates back to before AU Falcons.
Yep, the Ford engine is more powerful and has more torque, but it’s also up to 0.4-1L bigger which will lead to increased fuel consumption. EcoLPi from Ford also doesn’t have the years of tried and true testing, being a new technology.
Ultimately, you’ll buy whichever one you think looks better or has your favourite colour.
Ummm… No it doesn’t. Ford’s latest 24-valve SOHC I6 engine originated with the BA in 2004 and got significant makeovers for BF in 2006 and FG in 2008. The AUs and older had 12-valve pushrod engines.
Sorry, I meant 2002 with BA.
AU had a single overhead cam (SOHC) 12 valve engine, BA onwards had double overhead cam (DOHC) 24valve. Pushrods disappeared when the EA was introduced.
Jesus Dave I dont think you got one fact right there, nice work
Nice work Holden. At least they aren’t sitting on their hands doing nothing.
The haters are out already. Little point comparing to the falcon. They both have their place in the market.
Both have there place in the market yes, as direct competition, why would you not compare them, your just a Torana loving goon by the sounds
While you are just a goon!
” Both have their place in the market yes, as direct competitors. Why would you not compare them? You’re just a Torana loving goon by the sounds of it! ”
Spot the difference. I’m surprised you spelt your name right Harry. You should probably do a spell check before calling others goons.
P.S I never owned a Torana as they were (imho) a POS
Correct spelling, thats the best you got hey, good one.
Falcon and Commodore not in competition? are you not able to distinguish visual shapes, had an eye poked out years ago or something, only seen one behind the other, not real clever are we
I guess the 3.0 litre V6 Commodore didn’t work out so well for their “Eco-friendly” image…
Holdens decision not to go LPI is based on the green veihcle guide. if this scores higher than the falcon the governments will buy it. thats why euro 6 compliant was more important than 20 KW’s This car is designed for the fleet market, not for joe average. Alll in all a few extra orders per month per dealer is what holden is chasing. this will get the result they need. VF i personally believe will be here in 12-18 months, That will have the new flavours needed to re invigerate the retail market.
Its just a half arsed effort, they know it wont sell well
Sorry but it is known within the design industry that the real reason that GM went vapour is that they couldn’t make the Ecotech start in all conditions. In fact it is also given away within the story: “offering consistent start-up in hot climates”.
Also to achieve any economy improvements they had to lighten up the drivetrain, particularly the transmission, hence the need for lower torque, and the vapour injection – also given away in the story: ” while being less mechanically demanding on the whole powertrain”.
Spot on DE. They may be generalising but they’re actually talking about their own power-train..This is marketing BS at it’s best from Holden.
Add to that the comment that it is “Beyond Euro 6″!!!
Really?? So GM-H has an inside running to the final specifications of Euro 6??? Even the Europeans don’t have a clear description of the timeline or specifications for Euro 6 yet…..
Laughed loud at the opening paraghraphs too, it was written in a way to make the average Joe think that this is the first time that ANY company has gone down this road, yet FoMoCo have had dedicated LPG for a decade and have moved onto the newest technology after many years of testing. I know for a fact that LPi was being teseted in BF 1 test mules (usually with a white plastic dome on top) so it to has done the miles testing..
I’m not sure if that’s correct. As I understand the situation, EU 6 has been released but isn’t due to be implemented until 1st of September 2014?
Euro 6 for Europe yes, implementation for Aust??? undetermined at this point
Just for further reference..
EcoLPi already meets Euro 6. This is straight from Ford’s internal design documentation which has absolute emissions values as tested on the original MY11 EcoLPi engine. The MY12 EcoLPi engine received an updated calibration that further improves on this.
So what is the actual fuel economy? It isn’t mentioned once in the review but I assume that it’s just below that of the LPi Falcon given the figures.
Shhh…. don’t mention fuel comsumption….
The point is it’s range on a single tank!
Notwithstanding the fact that I can get 800kms out of my old V12 BMW’s 102 litre tank… or 1200kms on a Land-Cruiser Prada’s 80+45 litre tanks…
The Omega LPG sedan achieves 11.8L/100km. This is from the entire press release which was released on other websites.
The 11.8 is the ADR figure. What people want to know is what is the real world comsumption. Pretty weak effort by the journalist not to report this. All they need to do was work out how much LPG they consumed versus the distance they travelled during their test.
My guess is it wasnt mentioned because its well above Holden’s usual BS ADR figures. This is typical of Holden, old tech, compromised design to cater for other deficiencies in their drivelines. Pass.
Funny my FG G6ET doesn’t come close to fords claimed ADR figures. But no one ever mentions that.
Might have something to do with the irresistible urge to lay out that smooth torque of the turbo 6? An FG G6 (5spd auto) I drive often averages 8.6l/100k with city/rural mix and quite a lot of overtaking roadtrains with WOT which is well under ADR. Alloytech SIDI on the other hand – lack of torque requires a lot more throttle to maintain momentum up hills etc so ends up around 10-11 under the same conditions – not to mention the nausea induced from the horrible sound.
Well go out and drive the thing and find out!
My LPG MY10 Berlina is getting 11.3 / 100kms LPG economy! Average speed is 53kmh…
TO all those comparing it to the Falcon and saying it is inferior, yes it produces both less power and torque, but then as Holden stated they weren’t looking for the greatest power and torque. They wanted economy and better Co2 emissions which is what they have given the buying public. The fact that the car scores 4.5 out of 5 in the Green car guide and is able to pass Euro 6 compliance tests are both bonuses and added fuel for the Holden marketing team, who we all know will market this car just right (unlike their counterparts over at Ford who dont seem to have received the memo that Ford have an LPG falcon). We all know that Holden could make a Commodore which weighed 1400kg, drank 6 litres/100km and handled like a 5 series, but the haters would still find something to complain about.
Well it’s not like Holden would say: “Well….err…umm.. we couldn’t achieve a reliable, stable solution using LPI because our Engines blew up. So we opted for a more archaic option which has been around for well…ages but it will make the car gutless.”. (Ok, I’m exaggerating but you get the drift) We’re fed whatever they decide to tell us. As if Marketing are going to allow them to be honest?
As for being Holden haters, I think a lot of people see it as marketing hype surrounding an average option. A 1.8 Tonne car needs more power than this for starters. Larger mass with less power means an engine works harder to achieve the same performance (correct me if I’m wrong). Point in proof is the 3.0L Omega.
If Holden build a 1.4 Tonne Commodore that drank 6.0L/100 and handled like a 5 series, I’d buy one. But that isn’t going to happen.
Well errr, just like Ford wouldn’t tell you don’t give your turbo FG heaps because you will blow the transmission up and most likely the diff and void warranty under claims you were in a drag race which can’t and will not be substantiated.
Like we don’t talk about not using 9″ anymore, but if you go back to ford and demand it to be looked at its actually 8.5″. Manual states 9″ diff, back in 24 hours after they replaced it.
The ZF in the XR6T falcons are rated at 600nm… im sure its fine
“We all know that Holden could make a Commodore which weighed 1400kg, drank 6 litres/100km and handled like a 5 series, but the haters would still find something to complain about.”
– Of course they will because it will result to a price hike to a 5 series too which nobody will buy.
My belief that developing and producing a car that is state of the art here in Australia just for the australian market is too expensive.
We all agree im pretty sure that developing a car solely for our tiny and over crowded market is not good business. Which is why Holden developed Zeta (and Commodore) to be exported all around the world and to be used in various GM applications. However the GFC hit and all the export markets that Holden had lined up disappeared.
Im guessing the next Commodore after the VF wont be engineered entirely here. it will probably be built on the Alpha platform and use similar engines to the other cars on that platform. It will likely still be made here, just as previous Commodores were (the Opel based ones).
This car ticks all the right boxes for economy, lower Co2, and a plentiful supply of Australian Lpg.
One could almost half the fuel bill on gas. Its a win win situation.
Bootspace AND spare wheel? Not quite win win there.
You can have a spare in the sedan without any problems, same a s Falcon. But the Sports wagon is an issue as the spare cannot sit verticaly in the load area.
Yes you can have a spare in the sedan without any problems, however you will then render up to almost half (depending if it is a full size or space saver) of the already reduced boot space available useless. That kind of defeats half of the reason for buying a large car in the first place…
Also Mad Max, the spare tyre option for the wagon is “deflated” so it can fit better.
Yeah, let’s design to fit a “flat spare tyre”. That’s going to work real well with the simple minded folk (Holden demographic? TIC)
Once again our local manufacturers give us what they think we need.
Give our large cars diesel engines and there is a chance to revive sales. Look at large SUV and 4X4 sales, all dominated by diesel power.
It would have been a fantastic car with a diesel V6.
I love how people are saying “oh it meets Euro 6″, that’s why Holden went that way instead of doing the same as Ford. Do a little research and you’ll find that the EcoLPi Falcon also can meet Euro 6- it just hasn’t been tested for it. The EcoLPi is a better car in almost every respect, including having a significantly lower RRP than equivalent Commodores since FGII. The only place the LPG Commodore is actually ahead is with the Omega vs XT fuel consumption and we’ve all seen the results of previous fuel consumption tests between Falcons and Commodores…
Exactly. Bodge on a bunky old vapour injection system onto a bunky V6 with a bunky transmission and then harp on about Euro 6 and CO2, typical of the Holden propaganda machine.
Let’s not forget sales. They’re obviously doing something right…
i assume the 3.6 motor they are using is the same as the current dual fuel motor? anyone know. curious to know if they have reduced the noise of it. and is the gas set up fully intergrated with the trip computer, distance to empty etc.???
That range chart is pretty useless without tank capacity.
Comparing range with a CR-V? lololololol Holden you clowns.
Time for Holden and Ford to JOIN FORCES and bombard the media with the benefits of these Comm ond Falc LPG versions.
I can’t see why they can’t return to the top sellers they once were, given these magnificent LPG versions (espescially the Ford).
Both are cheaper to run, more powerful, roomier, safer, smoother, better to drive etc than any of today’s top sellers. Even reasonable resale value, given the ACTUAL purchase price (not RRP).
No brainer. WTF is wrong with the Australian car buyers?
My thoughts exactly. Why do so many people on this website insist on diesel in our locally made large sedans? Its a dirty fuel, which unfortunately in Australia is more expensive. Diesel variants of cars also cost more. It also means we have to rely on an imported fuel which is controlled by Oil sheiks who couldn’t care less about our nation.
LPG on the other hand is locally produced, much cleaner burning and with the current advanced LPG technology doesnt produce foul smells, and consumption isnt as sky high as it used to be. Ill admit that prices do fluctuate because we supply a large international market with our local LPG, but with LPG normally less than half the price of petrol or diesel it just makes so much sense now.
LPG is a by-product of crude oil and condensates, its not to be confused with natural gas – that’s what we have plenty of in Australia. LPG is a mix of propane and butane whereas natural gas is mainly methane, so LPG is still mostly derived from sheiks oil.
That’s not entirely true, Robin. You’re right about it being a by product and made out of propane and butane, but actually (and I may be mistaken) but I strongly believe nearly ALL the LPG we get in AUS is made here.
Its refined here, but the crude that it is refined from is mainly sourced from overseas. A percentage of our crude (around 30%) comes from Australian wells and some LPG is taken from condensates from gas wells but the majority of the LPG is derived from overseas crude.
Well that tends to conflict with Holden’s presentation for the LPG Commodore, which said it was about reducing our dependence on foreign oil. I will see if I can clarify this.
Its hard to find facts on this as there is a lot of confusion between LPG and NG, condensates etc.
It looks like I am wrong. Australia is a net exporter of LPG. Some is derived from imported crude as a byproduct but we do derive supplies from ‘wet’ natural gas wells. I stand corrected.
That big flame coming out of the stack at oil refinieries in lpg going up in smoke, most of the time it’s not economically viable to capture.
Correct Slothbrett. Once upon a time it ALL went up in flames.
Shak, I can only give you my reasons for buying a European diesel car. I had a VE Calais Sportswagon. As a user chooser car allowance driver I shopped around and purchased a European diesel wagon. The reason is that the Calais averaged 11.8 around Melbourne and 9.7 on long journeys. The diesel car averages 6.4 around Melbourne and 4.9 on long journeys. The two cars are almost like for like in specification and within $500 in purchase price. The Calais retained 43% of its purchase price at 3 years. The new car (according to Redbook and looking on the net) should retain 54%. The service price on the diesel are a little higher but still comparring the two cars over my average 30’000 kms per year, I’m way in front.
If i could find a comparable large sedan(or wagon for that matter) with diesel power, that achieved similar stats to a Commodore i would probably buy one. Till date however, i have not been able to turn up a car which mixes the Commodores space, driver appeal, power and looks for the price that Holden is asking. May i ask what particular car you chose?
Shak, I purchased a VW Passat Highline wagon. The looks are not to everybodies taste but I like it. Yes its smaller than the Commodore (mainly width and rear seat room) but my children have their licenses and own cars. The Load area is a similar size.Acceleration and 0 to 100km times are similar to the Calais and the features are very close and the Passat came with standard leather whereas the Calais only has it on the V. As I said, the Passat is not to everybodies taste but after 18’000kms its been trouble and squeak free which was my only concern after reading some of whats written on this website.
Nice to know that your liking your Passat. I actually have a friend who recently put a V6 FSI Sedan on order, and was actually comparing it to Calais and Superb. The thing that convinced him to go for the Passat was the quality which i will concede is better. However he agreed entirely that the Calais was the drivers car of the bunch. and the looker. I guess each of us has our own priorities.
One of the things I have never been able to reconcile on the Sportswagon is that is that while it has good internal capacity, the official payload is only 450 kg.
My Skoda Octavia wagon is either 560 or 650 kg (some variation from different sources).
450 kg is barely two well fed Americans or three Australians!
The 4 year old Skoda has been reliable, the only warranty issue being replacement of the barrel of steering column lock. Apparently not unknown across the AVG range.
VW – You will end up back at the dealer for a number warranty repair items. All the new VWs that I have experienced (and here say as well) all suggest this. VW are great, but the are suffering Toyota growing pains and there are lots of little slip ups occurring in their new cars (all easily fixed).
Holden are worse, so I’m not really sure what my point is…
We have so much Australian LPG. We produce so much he can sell it very cheaply to other countries. We should using more of it. Why do we ‘insist’ on only using expensive imported petrol and diesel?
We all know how LPG is so much cheaper and cleaner than alternatives.
It’s only cleaner per litre but as LPG is less efficient you need to burn more of it and it barely ends up being any cleaner than petrol.
Also it’s future doesn’t look very cheap. I had a LPG car about 7 years ago and used to pay about 38c a litre. Last I looked it was 78c a litre. Also Government excise is due to be added onto LPG prices at some point which would bring it up to around $1 or more. Add that to the increased consumption of around 30% compared to petrol and the extra purchase cost of the car and it’s not looking cheaper at all.
Yes you do have to burn around 30% more, but when petrol is around 55-60% more than the cost of LPG it still ends up cheaper.
unless you have the Ford System which reduces the burn rate to under 20% less efficient than the ULP Engine
It doesn’t use more “energy” to move the same mass, lpg has a lower energy density (about 30%) than petrol, which is measured in joules.
It’ll consume a larger VOLUME of fuel to cover the same distance, but not energy (because of the difference in density).
This is different to efficiency which is expressed as a percentage in engineering terms.
The petrol and lpg engines have about the same efficiency, but the lpg is a much cleaner burning fuel (not to mention cheaper to run), even after you factor in the higher volume consumed.Even with current lpg prices, it’s still much, much cheaper on lpg.
Lpg would have to be a dollar a litre to be equal to petrol.
My 2012 Grand Cherokee was 48K D/A.
I get around 10-11L per 100KM. on a 3.6L V6 petrol. I bet my grand weighs alot more then the Omega.
“The Omega LPG sedan achieves 11.8L/100km”
Great tech from the guys at Holden.
Cause LPG is half the price of the fuel you use to run your Jeep.
So therefore the running costs are much lower.
What a silly comment. Go bury your head back in the sand
you’d be the only person in aus getting 11’s AROUND TOWN in anything 1800kg and over with a 3.5 ltr v6 petrol motor.try 15-18 and tell the truth…
didn’t have the coin for the much better diesel option then?.maybe holden have a spare lpg injection system they can lend you?..
Nice to know you can see my average fuel usage & know what im getting.
Not about the coin for the crd. Dont want to wait 3months for a car that will be turned over in less than 18months.
Alborz, why no mention of the fact that the quoted 11.8L/100km is only for the Omega and Berlina sedans? The rest of the range use 12.3 or more, which is lineball with the Falcon…
I have added it in.
This makes far more sense than Holden’s efforts with biofuels.
They have addressed the weakness in the Falcon package of compromised storage space, but the Falcon direct injection system is technically superior and better for towing.
It will be interesting to see real-life fuel consumption comparisons.
One of the potential benefits that is not mentioned is the increased longevity of the engine due to the cleaner burn.
35 years ago in the UK a friend had a Ford Capri Mk1 that had been converted to run on LPG from new.
I have no idea what make or system he had but I do know it started on LPG so was not a dual fuel set up.
He ran a driver training school so it was in continual use and he eventually sold it back to Ford for the original purchase price. The reason being that he had covered 500,000 miles (800,000 klm), fully documented and without any work on the engine, other than standard servicing and consumables (clutch, belts etc) .Bear in mind that most of the mileage was in the unfriendly urban areas of London.
It was a bit rattley at the end though.
His theory for it’s longevity was that it was not subjected to the daily dose of neat petrol at startup like most carburetored vehicles of the day which washed off the lubricating oil and that the oil was far less polluted when it was changed.
He was told at the time his nearest petrol rival was a Ford Escort that had covered 350,000 miles
Anyway I think these are great developments by Ford and Holden and they deserve good sales.
What will totally stuff them though is when the goverment raises the tax on LPG
When I converted my car to lpg I noticed that the engine oil took much longer to turn black (compared to petrol).
Jerrycan, how have they addressed the weakness on the Falcon’s “compromised storage space? Just like the Falcon, the Commodore sedan has a smaller boot (though not by as much). Just like the Falcon it has no spare tyre. Just like the Falcon if you wish to have a spare tyre in the sedan it sits on the boot floor and takes up space commensurate with the size of the tyre. How does that address the weakness of compromised storage space again?
The Falcon bootspace goes down from 535 to 464 litres with LPG.
While there were no figures in this article my reading of it and the image suggested that the (possibly overlarge) LPG tank was less intrusive. I accept I may be wrong on that point without figures.
I ignored the lack of a spare tyre as this does not seem to be an impediment to sales for some very expensive imported brands also without spares.
All my tyre punctures were due to nails/screws in Metro areas and incidents seemed proportional to the amount of building work going on. So I have not had one for a while but I think that either a DIY puncture kit or the inflator kit would deal with most problems.
The simple fact is that as the tyres get bigger then the difficulty of carrying a spare around also increases and also also adds to the difficulty of changing a tyre. Not sure my wife could handle the weight unassisted. The original mini was so easy!
At least they did not offer run-flats which are expensive, compromise ride/handling and probably hard to get in more rural areas of Australia.
I think it is good that they are offering the public and businesses viable alternatives.
I am surprised it was economically viable to re-engineer the transmission for improved consumption when stop/start would have had a far more significant effect.
Also curious why they were not able to use the HSV LPI injection technology. Any one heard how that is going?
The Commodore LPG sedan boot is 10L smaller to around 485L and yes is not as big a difference to the Falcon, which I said in my post. That is one problem with the standard Falcon boot, whislt it is bigger than the Commodore, the multiple steps in the floor make some of the extra space useless for more rigid items. just levelling the floor off to the higher point (which is what it looks like they did) is why it is reduced so much. Even thought Commodore boot is smaller, IMHO it is more usable than the Falcon.
Holden have been quite smart. They bring a proven tech to the market with no loss of luggage space and is available in LWB model and station wagon. Perfect for the conservative Taxi market (LPi is far too much of an advance for them) who always detested the lack of boot space in the eGas Falcon sedan.
The LPi falcon suffers from poor cold startup…. enough that its release was delayed to sort it out. It affected emissions compliance.
Richard, the sedan does actually have a reduction of boot space. The wagon and ute however do not.
Would love to see a dedicated LPG on the V8 models (or in Ford’s case XR6T) – performace and economy – would be the best of both worlds.
Stop hating Holden about the LPG system compared to Ford’s LPi. At least they upgraded it & introduced 6-speed auto across the range. With Holden’s terrific marketing techhniques, this will easily catch up & out sell Falcon LPi sales anyway
19kW less power and 89Nm less torque. I would drive a Falcon anytime.
The Falcon engine is 10% larger and makes 10% more power. Having said that, i’d probably go the Falcon too.
Both the LPi Falcon and Commodore are auto only which is a real problem for me.
The only problem I see is, for the Ford buyers who want LPG in a Wagon, or LWB luxury. I imagine there will be a lot of LPG SV6’s getting around (a territory diesel is not the same).
FORDS ECOLPI and Holdens HSV are both set up by Orbital and componets are suplied by them,there is no problem with cold startup ,Orbital have climate controled test facilites, the most advanced in the Asia/Pacific region,they work with many OEM’s around the world and there direct injection system is the best in the world, enable engines to run on any fuel, It’s called FLEX DI. That could be the next step for Ford or Holden,it’s sad the investment community dose not support them ,there shares are rock bottom.
Mitsubishi had dedicated LPG magnas and 380’s.
No one noticed or cared…same as will happen to these two anachronistic yank tanks.
My guess is that you are one of thoes testosterone deficient Volkswagen drivers.Commodore and Falcon kill your car for reliability.
Would rather buy a Hyundai then a Commodore or Falcon. It’s better looking and absolutely more reliable then a Commodore or Falcon…
The reliability and build quality of a Hyundai are excellent.However driving dynamics are well behind Commodore and Falcon.Funny one Ian.
had my falcon for 7 years, done 200,000 k`s +, towed a caravan across Australia and back, nothing but general maintenance items, it`s never let me down, due for it`s irs half shafts replacement and third set of spark plugs and leads, still feels like it will do another 200,000 k`s , no complaints from this bloke about reliability, love the torque of the straight 6.
Yank Tanks are better than rice burners and Euro snob machines any day.
Compare the latest Falcon to the latest Taurus and I think you’ll change your mind.
“the LPG Commodore costs around $1227 in fuel per year, which is very similar to the more powerful Falcon EcoLPi ($1279)”. If there was no other deciding factors for you, you’d take the much better performance of the Falcon
Nice car the LPG Commodore ..
It’s better looking and absolutely more reliable then a Commodore.
Putting out a statement of how far further the LPG Commodore goes than a Honda CR-V is ridiculous. Totally different car demographic, most Commodore drivers would not know what the Honda was. Typical stupid marketing from a company building out-dated motor cars. Oh, and they want OUR money to ensure their future. Dream on.
Today’s 8 Mar 2012 in VIC 3136 LPG price is $0.879!!!!
hmm m, pretty funny stating you can get to Sydney on one tank , it reminds me , i used to get to Sydney on one tank in my kenworth(350 litres).
with 7 more litres of gass to only get 23 more kilometres range then the falcon. Sad.