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Toyota Aurion Review
Toyota Aurion Review
Toyota Aurion Review

Test model: Toyota Aurion Sportivo ZR6

Options fitted: Moonroof and Satellite navigation at $4850 all up – these are the only options on the ZR6 and are good value when you consider some European car makers charge this much for Sat Nav alone.

Wheel and Tyre option you should have a peek at: You can get a set of “Kappa” 18” wheels fitted to the ZR6 with proper low profile 225/45 R18’s and at $1600 (wheels only) they really do set this car off. The standard 17” alloys on the ZR6 have been done to death by a number of car makers and don’t do the car justice.

Recommended retail price: $42,500 without the above options, but the Aurion range (with the same engine specs) kicks off with the AT-X at $34,990.On Road Price: Around $46,000 but it pays to shop around as you may be able to reduce the cost of the above options as I did with some dealers.

Warranty: 3 years or 100,000kms whichever comes first.

Where the car sits in the model line-up:
second from the top with only the luxury trimmed Presara sitting above at $49,990.

“The competition includes Holden’s SV6 and Ford’s XR6, both good drives, but with 200kW, a healthy respect for fuel and Toyota’s badge of reliability, it would pay you to be a little more than curious”

It was never going to be a ‘shoe in’ for Toyota to compete in the large family car segment in Australia with the big six offerings from Ford and Holden given their domination in this sector for decades. It’s even tougher, when you are coming at the Aussie lads from the ‘performance badge’ side.But if you are Holden, Ford, Honda, Buick, Dodge or even Honda, Toyota is your worst nightmare when they decide to “really” go after a new market segment.

Toyota Aurion Review
Toyota Aurion Review
Toyota Aurion Review
Toyota Aurion Review

Quick Reference Guide:

  • PRICE AS TESTED – $47,305
  • VEHICLE LAYOUT – Front engine, FWD, 5-pass, 4-door large sedan
  • ENGINE – NEW 3.5-litre Quad Cam V6 with Dual VVT-i with Intelligent Electronic Throttle
  • TRANSMISSION – Six-speed Automatic
  • MAXIMUM POWER – 200kW@6200rpm
  • MAXIMUM TORQUE – 336Nm@4700rpm
  • 0-100 (km/h) – 7.42 sec
  • MAX SPEED (km/h) – 228
  • KERB WEIGHT (kg) – 1630
  • WHEELBASE (mm) – 2775
  • LENGTH (mm) – 4825
  • HEIGHT (mm) – 1470
  • LUGGAGE CAPACITY (litres) – 504
  • FUEL TANK CAPACITY – 70 litres standard unleaded (91 RON ULP)
  • SAFETY (passive) – Dual front, side and curtain airbags
  • SAFETY (active) – ABS, EBD, BA, Traction Control, VSC

By the end of 2007, Toyota will most likely be crowned the number one car manufacturer in the world edging out General Motors for the first time in history.

2007 (year only) projections indicate that by December they will have built close to 9.5 million cars and trucks worldwide. It’s truly a phenomenal figure when you ponder for a second or two and ask yourself how that’s possible when the company only started operations in 1938.

The reason is simple, they build the kind of passenger cars and commercial vehicles that the overwhelming majority of drivers think are the best value for money. And that brings us to the 3.5 litre V6 powered, 200kW Toyota Aurion. It essentially replaces the Avalon as a large car, capable of penetrating deep into Holden Commodore and Ford Falcon territory, something the vanilla flavoured Avalon was never going to do.

Toyota Aurion Review
Toyota Aurion Review
Toyota Aurion Review

The Aurion Sportivo ZR6 which we tested, is the sports version which has been designed with similar principles to Ford’s XR6 and Holden’s SV6 in that they’re more about a sports ‘look’ than outright sports performance.

It’s not that any of these cars could ever be considered slow, far from it. It’s just that the power outputs on the ZR6 and the XR6 are the same across the model range while the SV6 gets a slight 15kW increase over the standard Omega 3.6-litre Commodore.

The Aurion was designed by Nick Hogios, an Australian who had ironically worked on the XR performance models of the BA series Falcon while at Ford Australia.

If you thought the Aurion looked a little like the Camry, you’d be spot on. In fact the doors, side windows, windscreen and roof panels are identical. The rest of the car’s panels though, are unique to the Aurion.

Toyota has decided that the Camry will be the four cylinder family car while Aurion badged cars will be V6 powered.

With 200kW and a respectable 336Nm of torque in a large five-seater car, the Sportivo ZR6 does measures up in a power stakes, no matter which way you dress it up. Its 5kW more than the SV6 and 10kW more than the Ford’s XR6 but more importantly, it weighs in at 1630kg which is significantly lighter than both its Aussie rivals.
With a large chunk of the initial advertising focused squarely on the 200kW figure, the first thing you want to do when you settle into the Aurion Sportivo ZR6 is well… see if it goes!

Dropping the accelerator pedal won’t push you back in the seat as you might have expected with this much power, but it will get you from 0-100km/h in just on 7.4 seconds with a definite urgency. The fairly average torque figure dialled into this car is one reason for the lack of instant surge down low, and the fact the full 336Nm is not available until you hit 4700rpm, is another. On the other hand, the Ford and Holden lads mentioned above, get their full dose of torque coming on song at around 2500rpm and 2600rpm respectively and that’s where the difference lies.

What is noticeable behind the wheel of the ZR6 is how smooth and unruffled the engine is under full load. Even better, when it’s mated to the Aurion’s velvety six-speed automatic transmission with sequential shifting. It’s as good if not better, than many of the European cars with similar outputs.

Occasionally though, when climbing hills, the gearbox will repeatedly kick down a ratio in the interest of maintaining a desired speed despite its artificial intelligence (AI) feature. It’s a characteristic common to quite a few multi ratio gearboxes these days, and again, usually due to not enough torque available at some throttle points.

It’s no big deal though, and can be dealt with effectively in the Aurion by using the sequential shift feature, which allows the driver to pretty much control time spent in each gear ratio which can be held to near redline, if required.

All this power in a relatively small engine means cutting edge technology. Up front, is a newly developed 3.5-litre Quad Cam V6 which has been developed to provide maximum power with maximum fuel efficiency. You can pretty much bank on this powerplant given that you’ll also find it (a version of at least) in the Lexus IS350 which will be available in Australia later this year.

Unlike many Toyota vehicles, all cars in the Aurion range comes packed with standard features which will put Falcon and Commodore on notice.

Standard luxury features in the ZR6 include; power everything (including front driver and passenger seats), Dual zone climate control air conditioning, Cruise Control, 6 speaker CD changer sound system with MP3 (but no auxiliary input jack for ipods etc – this system is average quality only), perforated leather Sports seats and door trim – these are particularly comfortable), Front and rear parking sensors, Smart entry and push button start (same as Lexus – so you just need to have the key fob on your person and then hit the start button).

There’s also a host of safety features built into the car and these include; Vehicle Stability control, Traction Control, Anti-Lock Brake System, Electronic Brake Distribution and Brake Assist along Dual front, side and curtain airbags.

You also get Sports LED taillights (super bright even in daylight), Optitron driver gauges (clearly visible in sunshine glare), Sports leather steering wheel and shifter, Alloy sports pedals with Sportivo front and rear metal scuff plates.

The ZR6 and SX6 representing the “testosterone lite” models in the Aurion line-up share an identical dress code with 17” alloys, a rear spoiler, different headlight and taillight designs, a sports body kit and grill along with underbody aerodynamics borrowed from Toyota’s Formula One knowledge.

Running 17” alloys is fine although, I thought these two sports models might be blessed with 18 inch rims but what is disappointing is that you have to live with not so wide 215/55’s, hardly a respectable footprint for a 200kW, ZR6 badge car!

These two sports models might have the look but there’s no additional power or engine modification. If you’d like that too, then you just might be in luck. Toyota has been previewing the Aurion Sports Concept. It’s a much more aggressively styled car that looks to be “all show and all go” with a supercharged 3.5-litre engine and a predicted power output of around 250kW. Whoosh!

Travelling as fast as you are legally permitted on our modest highway system will provide no cause to crank the volume up on the sound system – wind and road noise are non-existent at these speeds due to the refinement and build quality of this car.

Fortunately, the ZR6 is has been graced with some performance handling bits that ensure minimal body roll on turn in when negotiating twisty sections.

All Aurion models come standard with a rear brace behind the rear seat which adds welcomed body stiffness when cornering.

For additional rigidity, the two Sportivo models get additional underbody stabilising braces at the rear together with a rear floor undercover which helps keep the rear end on the road and out of trouble. One problem though. These braces mean that there is no 60/40 split rear fold feature, ditto on the Mitsubishi 380.

Naturally there are stiffer damper, springs and stabiliser bar settings which work in concert with some quality Micheline tyres around the 17” five-spoke alloys to provide the grip.

Although the ZR6 and SX6 have been given the sports suspension treatment you would hardly call it firm and that’s not a bad thing. I drove the car on a wide variety of roads and road surfaces at various speeds and in all cases, the car drove and cornered with confidence, never once becoming unsettled. The standard bumps and potholes were simply swallowed up by this suspension set up.

Steering is reasonably well weighted although it wouldn’t hurt to reduce the boost a little more on these sports models.

As a point of interest, some car makers now offer variable power steering settings which allow you to adjust the level of boost depending on the sort of terrain you are driving on.

Brake pedal pressure is surprisingly good in the ZR6 despite using single piston calipers front and rear although, there is a feast of brake assistance acronyms to pull this car up in the shortest possible distance in most conditions.

Previous Camry’s were sold on the back of reliability and resale values with buyers foregoing any inkling of styling. While we liked the new Camry, the Aurion Sportivo ZR6 adds some design tweaks that place it side by side or ahead of the SV6 and XR6.

Not the least of which are the large twin oval chrome exhaust tips and black mesh grille, which continues down onto the lower front air dam.

Also worth a mention are the turn indicator lights, built into each side mirror and similar to many European marques. I’m truly mystified as to Holden and Ford’s take on this popular styling cue, given its simplicity and air of prestige it adds to those cars and SUV’s which have adopted it.

Amazingly, Ford employs this feature on one vehicle only, the Escape SUV. Holden, not a whole lot more creative, have it on the top spec Rodeo (yes, the workhorse) and Captiva. Go figure!

The Stylemeisters have had their way with the Aurion’s interior too. Metallic accents are awash in this car along with a tasteful blend of reasonable quality plastics and fabrics, although still some way short of those found in most German cars.

The switchgear and blue tinted dash panels ooze quality and of course, it all functions flawlessly. I particularly like the Optitron instrument dials which are super bright and legible even in skin scorching sunlight. They were first introduced in Lexus cars a few years ago and have found their way into the Aurion range. Its one of the advantages Toyota has over other mass market car makers and frankly, the more Lexus bits, the better.

If you occasionally feel the need for some spirited driving, then you’ll enjoy the gear position indicator when using the sequential shift function hopefully on some deserted, winding road.

Not only will the Aurion accommodate 5 large adults in comfort, there’s a tonne of storage space throughout the car with the usual cup holders and hidden compartments front and back.

If you’ve been holding off on those Sunday drives with the family, you might just reconsider if you’re lucky enough to end up in an Aurion. Fuel consumption in this 200kW family express is rated at 9.9 litres/100km combined highway/city, which is exceptional given the car’s size and performance.

If I were buying on looks alone, I’d probably opt for Holden’s SV6. If on the other hand, if I wanted the best overall sports package – then my money would be on the ZR6.

  • jeff

    “If I were buying on looks alone, I’d probably opt for Holden’s SV6. If on the other hand, if I wanted the best overall sports package – then my money would be on the ZR6″

    That’s funny, I would have put it the other way. SV6 for RWD performance, and Aurion for styling, which I really like. (pity about the wheels, typical Toyota).

    Good Review

  • http://www.alborzfallah.com alborz

    Hmm thats true Jeff to an extent,
    but the Aurion actually has better acceleration then the SV6 (which is really just a commodore with a body kit)

  • steane


    “Hey guys, I just got my new SPORTIVO”. “I just spent 40k on a car called a SPORTIVO guys…do you like it? Cool huh? Doesn’t it look great? Doesn’t it just make you want to get in and drive it!?

    No… It looks like a Camry in drag. Maybe ‘Sportivo’ is just a stage name? Where the hell do they get a name like Sportivo from anyway? Did they have a pick the most diabolically stupid name imaginable competition?


    Sportivo…your Mother will love it!
    Now it makes sense:-)

    I’m going to go and poke my eyes out.

  • http://www.alborzfallah.com alborz

    It is not a very manly name, but Toyota has a history of bad car names, Supra? Celica? Corolla? Yaris? Avalon? Soarer?.Probably the only cool car name they ever had was the Toyota MR-2, but then they ruined that car and made it into a chicks car and then ended production since it didn’t sell… in true Toyota fashion,

    though I am looking forward to the new Toyota Supra,

  • anthony

    how is MR-2 a cool name? its two letters a number and a freakin dash!!! oooo that dash really brings out the 2!!!

    i prefer tarago, kluger, aurion, camry to mazda 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6! Now THAT is a boring name for a car line-up.

    I like the fact that people are starting to love or hate toyota. whereas a few years ago if someone mentioned toyota no one would even offer an opinion.

    If i was one big brother id nominate toyota for 2 points for “flying under the radar”

  • steane

    Sorry, but I can’t confess love or hate for a Toyota, not one that you can buy in this country at any rate.

    I do think they are funny. I also think that they are driven by good church going folk who would find a Sportivo altogether rather evocative and raunchy much like ‘Revelations’. Maybe it should be called the Toyota Revelation…?

    They are cars for the masses. Another form of whitegood. They are well priced and well made and well…rather bloody boring, a trait they no-doubt share with the people who buy them.

    They don’t make me feel love or hate, just rather sleepy.

    • Guest

      you’re an idiot.

  • Lazybones

    Well as a newly converted Toyota man from Holden, and unfortunately Steane i’m an atheist, I’d have to agree with you on the white goods comment and especially the name SPORTIVO :). We’re seeing amazingly bad markeing in the industry these days.

    I think Honda are also going the same way. It seems the average buyer is now just doing the sums, How much, How safe,Whats the Fuel ADR, How much space, bla bla. (Fun – Not Required) Toyotas showroom wouldn’t truly inspire me if I was buying a car for me and not the family. It definately needs the celica or supra, which at least had some excitement about it.

    But anyway, the Aurion. Not too bad on the eyes, Excellent engine, But Sporty – err NO, way too many doors & seats!!

  • Myke

    besides the TRD, I think the Aurion looks a bit mundane as a sports car. I do think the luxury models like the Presara look better (similar to 380 and their sport and luxury models).

  • Paul

    I find it funny how people here have a go at the Aurion Sportivo because of its lack of ‘sportiness’ but if this was the SV6 it would be praised as a great sports car. Fact is, none of them are, Commodore, Falcon or Aurion. They are all glorified family cars. But out of family cars, the Aurion Sportivo embaresses the compeition in terms of sporting ability… smaller engine yet more power, an engine that loves to be revved (Not saying it doesnt have good power down low, it has 300Nm of torque at 1500RPM, its just ‘peak’ thats higher up), sports looks (Presara looks better lmao look at the front lip or back bumper thats got some black on it, looks crap on every Aurion but the Sportivo) and comparable handling to the SV6 (Every review says it close, what you expect when the SV6 runs on larger tyres… put some 235s on an Aurion with better rims and see what happens). The only downer in terms of sportiness is it isnt RWD… but that doesnt matter, I dont define a car as sporty because it can powerslide and wrap itself around a pole, look at an Integra for example, very sporty.

  • steane

    The SV6 is no more a performance car than the Sportivo. I doubt the Sportivo would embarass the Falcon or Commodore it really isn’t that much of a revelation. It may embarass the owners kids.

    “Hey dad, please don’t drop me off at the front of the school..not in the SPORTIVO…dad…dad….DAAAD!”

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1328049168 Brodie Ireland

      Actually it’s great getting dropped off right out the very front of school in a Sportivo other kids envy me and I do not go to a state school either.

  • Foggy

    When I got home the other night, my wife had her new Camry company vehicle parked in the garage… I couldn’t even be bothered checking it out as I walked in… yawn!

  • Paul

    Yeah ‘Steane’ great call. I think the kids wouldnt care, but the grown ups who actually pay for these things would see the Aurion and then see someone in and SV6 think ‘What a spastic for buying a car with less power, less refinement, crapper looks (subjective but still) and less reliability’. Thats what I think when I see people in the Omega, youd have to be retarded to pay $36k of your hard earned money on an engine and transmission from the stoneage.

    And Foggys comments… thanks for your enlightenment, Im not going to buy an Aurion now because you think it looks ordinary, or the Camry at least. Instead I will go out and buy a retarded looking Commodore (anyone who tells me those front wheel arches looks alrite is kiddin themselves) with its 4 speed transmission, outdated engine, no a/c etc. I think they pissed up most of that 1 Billion on the wall.

    Slightly OT as well, I remember people saying the fuel consumption of the Aurion means crap all because the Commodore comes with LPG, well the Aurion does come with LPG aftermarket which can be fitted by the dealer, BUT n e ways the consumption figures for the Omega are like 16L per 100km on LPG vs Aurions 10L per 100km on petrol. Now Im not 100% up to date on LPG prices, but in the past they were roughly half that of petrol, so given the above and the added cost of LPG installation it would take well over 5 years just to break even! Great value for money their.

  • Lazybones

    “but if this was the SV6 it would be praised as a great sports car. Fact is, none of them are, Commodore, Falcon or Aurion. They are all glorified family cars

    I’m glad i’m not the only one who thinks this. If its got a bolt for a baby seat, its no sports car. I don’t care how many KW it has!!

    Don’t worry steane, 10 years from now thoses P-Platers to be will be driving round in Aurions with big white “Pioneer” stickers in the windows, a large tacky wing, and an even larger tacho!! Then the Aurion becomes “fully sick” :)

    And yes I still won’t have enough dosh to buy a 10 year old Exige!!!

  • http://www.alborzfallah.com alborz

    Hi Paul,
    The SV6 has 5kW less power than the Aurion and a fuel economy of 11/100km
    not that bad,
    but the Commodore has 3Nm more torque

    • marko

      wow thats a loot really 3 nm more wow i gooing too fly with them coommon guys dont talk that much aussis street and freeways we can not drive more then 100 also for me is enogh this 200 kw and that is good not everyone have an toyota here in melbourne every 5 meter you see this booring holdens and ford ….. lets change something for this money you become a luxus car that u never can buy with an orther brand also beee happy

  • steane

    Hi Paul. I see where you are coming from. The Toyota does have a better engine and is better built. But…and as I’ve said before, it looks sooooo boring and its called a SPORTIVO…which just kills me.
    If they get the styling right and come up with a decent name then they will be half way there.

    I think the Commodore is a far better looking device, its just my opinion but I’m tipping that the majority of people would agree.

    Now, the TRD Aurion in the next post is starting to look the goods and the Sportivo monicker is no-where to be seen. Prodrive wouldn’t be that silly…and they know how to build a decent performance car.
    It looks like a serious challenger to the Commodore and Falcon performance variants. It’s only issue will be that its FWD but we will just have to wait to see what the verdict is (I know you dont think it is an issue). I can see it doing outstandingly well.

    Meanwhile, the SPORTIVO will be snapped up by effeminate hair-dressers and Wedding Planners.

  • Lazybones

    “The SV6 has 5kW less power than the Aurion and a fuel economy of 11/100km”,

    That might have been good in 2004, but now thats pretty poor. Given the marketing machine claims “It leaves the competition in the stone age”, its has to be said the technical improvements are inferior to the new Toyota Dual VVI engine.

    But interms of looks and style, i’d say most would warm to the SV6 over the Aurion. Even with the nasty wheel archers, large low pro wheels give it an appealing look.

  • Paul

    Quote = The SV6 has 5kW less power than the Aurion and a fuel economy of 11/100km
    not that bad,
    but the Commodore has 3Nm more torque

    Yes but it weighs a good 100kg more… it will do the 100 sprint in 8s I would imagine, putting that in perspective, a 10+ year old Manual V6 Camry can do the 100 in under 8. And that Aurion engine is across the range (so something like the ATX is good value really, esp with its features) whereas Holden have had to tweak it, I would imagine some ‘tweaking’ of the Aurion engine would unleash alot more power as its no doubt aiming more for fuel efficiency then performance coming from the factory.

    QUOTE = Hi Paul. I see where you are coming from. The Toyota does have a better engine and is better built. But…and as I’ve said before, it looks sooooo boring and its called a SPORTIVO…which just kills me.

    Well its a matter of opinion, personally I prefer the Sportivo over the SV6… the black lip, black little part of the back bumper etc set it off nicely and differentiate it… the SV6 just looks like an ugly Omega with a spoiler, kit and better rims. The only thing that I think people get caught up on its the mags of the Aurion, they look ordinary at best… get some aftermarket ones (fatter tyres while your at it) and it will improve the cars looks 10 fold.

    The Aurion looks way better, the front bumper and lip of the VE looks cheap, and so do the headlights (does the VE even have projectors?). And I think the rear of the Aurion is way better as well.QUOTE = Given the marketing machine claims “It leaves the competition in the stone age”, its has to be said the technical improvements are inferior to the new Toyota Dual VVI engine.

    Lol true. I get a good laugh out of that, esp when you consider they use the same engines as the previous model Commodore, which were crap then and are no better now… both in terms of technology and performance.

    I have nothing against Holden, I like the SS… but I really do hate these double standards, the way I see it from a non-biased point if view:

    ATX > Omega (By a LONG shot)
    Sportivo > SV6 (Gap is smaller, but its still better)
    SS > Aurion (There is no equivalent, but its better for sure, although fuel consumption becomes an issue)

    And is anyone gonna comment on that LPG!! It was funny seeing people say the low fuel consumption of the Aurion means nothing cos Holden have LPG (in previous articles), esp to fleets this would be better… but fact is it will cost fleets more as they will never get the extra money back from the LPG Omega (I believe its $40k for the LPG Omega) and even for your average driver it would take some time.

  • steane

    “I have nothing against Holden, I like the SS… but I really do hate these double standards, the way I see it from a non-biased point if view:

    ATX > Omega (By a LONG shot)
    Sportivo > SV6 (Gap is smaller, but its still better)
    SS > Aurion (There is no equivalent, but its better for sure, although fuel consumption becomes an issue)”

    I’m not doubting that the Toyota is better than the Commodore, I agree with regard to the drivetrain and build quality. I’ve given credit where credit is due in this regard. My criticism lies with its styling which is POX and the name Sportivo which is just…gay.

    You can’t compare the SS Commodore to any of these 6 cylinder models. Fuel consumption is not an issue for the purchaser in this category. The purchaser in this category knows that there is nothing available in the Toyota stable that cracks the wip like a 6.0ltr Chev…oooh I’m getting goose bumps!

  • Paul


    I dunno about the SS comments, not everyone wants it because of the sound lol… some want a good balance of power and efficiency, Aurion 200kw at 10L per 100km (maybe tweaked to get more power) vs SS 270kw at 15L per 100km. Is the fuel costs worth the 2second difference in speed. I do agree they cant directly be compared, but I guarrantee some people would use a similar reasoning as I gave above.

  • http://www.alborzfallah.com alborz

    “Is the fuel costs worth the 2second difference in speed”
    there is no doubt in my mind, that even for 1 second, it would be worth the fuel…

    you gotta remember, the SS commodore much like other performance cars is all about speed!

  • steane

    No, I don’t think too many prospective SS buyers would size it up against the Aurion.
    It’s a torque thing and they are so different. If you want a 6.0 ltr Chev you dont go looking at Aurions. One is a Silver Brothers Circus and the other is a school fair. The Aurion may have 200kw but it’s not a 6.0ltr Chev. It might be a 6.0 ltr Chevs bitch…but that would be about it and only if it were desperate.

  • Paul

    Yeah Im not saying thats me, its just something people would consider… afterall under spirited driving (lol how I am most of the time) the SS gives you 20L per 100km… the Aurion is more around 12L per 100km, nearly double in fuel costs per year for 2seconds difference in speed that most will take advantage of very few times.

  • Paul

    I think you would get people who compare it against cars like the Aurion and SV6… because the costs are so similar now, the SS is like $45k, the same as these other cars fully decked out. And with fuel prices so high, not everyone could afford 15L+ per 100km each year, it equates to quite a fair bit extra. I find it hard to believe that no-one has considered these cars against eachother!

  • http://www.alborzfallah.com alborz

    Thats correct Paul,
    but under Spirited driving, the Aurion would be stuck sideways into a tree due to bucket loads of overstear, so there should be no basis for comparison in the first place 😀

  • steane

    There is a massive difference between the driving experience of a 6.0ltr Chev and 3.5 ltr Aurion. 200kw is ok but its not about power, its about torque and there is no comparison. A big capacity engine is just a whole new ball game.

    Buyers of V8’s don’t look at an Aurion and think, hey thats only 70kw less and there is a semi trailer load of torque missing but it gets 10.0LPH. They just don’t look at Aurions.

    Its got NOTHING to do with fuel for a V8 buyer. The only people interested in fuel consumption are those buying smaller engined cars. It gives them something to talk about at tuppaware parties.

  • Paul


    I know what your trying to say… and Im sure its true for your hardcore V8 man, but your avg buyer thinks like Ive been saying. They want a balance between power and efficiency… also its a cost vs benefit thing, like Ive said the benefit of having a powerful car vs the fuel consumption costs. I dont think they give a rats for the most part that it has 500Nm of torque unless they intend to tow a boat beacuse alot less than that is all thats required for practical purposes.

  • Paul

    Oh lol and small engined cars and fuel efficiency something for tuppaware parties… maybe say that to a Lotus Exige owner lol, 0-100km/h in 4seconds

  • Paul

    Lol tripple post also say it to a performance motorbike owner… 0-100km/h in 2secs. List goes on.

  • steane

    Come on Paul…We are talking about SS Commodores and Aurions…how did we jump to purpose built sports car like a Lotus Exige (No room for tuppaware) and road bikes…which aren’t even cars.

    Your’e making me all dizzy, so I’m going to go and make a coffee and maybe have a Teddy Bear biscuit…or two.
    The chocolate ones…

  • steane

    Hmmmm…yum. Anyone for a biscuit?

  • Paul

    Lol Im not jus saying the Aurion… Im saying anyone who is in the market for a car around that price range is not just going to look at the V8s (unless they are a hardcore v8 kinda person)… they will look at all the cars in that price range and make a decision based on what they see. Things like fuel consumption for your avg person WILL be a factor to most, along with power etc.

  • http://AustrliancarAdvice Lorry

    I reckon the new Aurion is a fine car indeed and the Sportivo’s is even better yet again. I personally find the Aurion Sportivo good to look at and after driving one in Mackay was absolutely rapped with it. Some of you Holden boys are scared shitless of Toyota and thier new move forward so now have to compare 8’s to 6’s. Typical of sore losers. How about just comparing the crappy v6 Commodore so things are inline. The reason for this is because many pro Holden people understand themselves that you don’t have even have a chance.

    Toyotas’s new move forward as with Mazda is crushing the likes of Holden and Fords and whats even better is that the best is yet to come. Have a look at the Holden v8’s for example. The GEN3 was woeful and the new Gen4 needs huge cubes and the consumption of a camel to maintain competiveness. Then there is Holdens new DAEWOO lineup in hope to catch the likes of Camry’s Mazda6’s etc – what an absolute joke.

    Here is a seriuos thought for one to think about – why be stupid enough to invest in V8’s when the overwhelming market is moving in the opposite direction. Any Toyota v8 is far more advanced, efficient and reliable then any GM V8 would ever be. The new 4.6 ltr V8 in the Lexus for example pumps out 280KW’S and 500nm of Torque at far less the capacity. Some of you gutys are absolute jokers.

  • steane

    Hey Lorry – Thanks for popping out from under your rock to make an inane comment or two and waste my time. It pays to read a post before you make stupid comments about it. Your obviously an aspiring Mensa candidate I just hope your not representative of the average Toyota driver. For now I will assume your not. Please note;

    1/. I’m not pro Holden. I am pro interesting performance cars of all makes. Toyota doesn’t generally fit into this category hence my comments. That doesn’t make me pro anything but INTERESTING PERFORMANCE CARS.

    2/. Not that there would be anything wrong with being pro Holden but that would be too much like national pride for most Aussies.

    3/. I acknowledged that the Toyota was better built and had a better drivetrain than the V6 Commodore.

    4/. I didn’t bring the SS into this post. Paul did when he compared it to the TRD Aurion. I simply tried, failed and gave up trying to get you Toyota guys to understand that V8 buyers don’t look at Aurions ie compare them because they are so different. An SV6 buyer would but not an SS buyer. I failed to get that point across, Toyota guys got all defensive (as they do) so I had a cup of coffee and a couple of biscuits instead.

    And just for the record, the Market is not moving away from V8’s. They are selling as well as ever if not better than ever. HSV for example are selling more cars than ever. The V8’s have a nice little niche going and aren’t suffering the slower sales of 6 cylinder equipped large cars like the…um…Aurion. Noticed how there are a lot of VE SS’s on the road Lorry…?

    I think an Aurion would suit you to a tee Lorry. Your an idiot just like the people who called the super sporty Aurion a ‘Sportivo’. You could make brmmm brmmm noises as you drive around wondering why most people are laughing at you. God help us all.

  • Paul

    QUOTE = I’m not pro Holden. I am pro interesting performance cars of all makes. Toyota doesn’t generally fit into this category hence my comments

    Well they do… its called Lexus mate. But thanks to taxes, they are to expensive in Australia and also offer a very limited range compared to overseas.

    QUOTE = I didn’t bring the SS into this post. Paul did when he compared it to the TRD Aurion.

    Yes I did… but what hes saying is right, with most other articles people straight away bring in the V8s… just look at that wheels car mag winner article.

    QUOTE = An SV6 buyer would but not an SS buyer. I failed to get that point across, Toyota guys got all defensive (as they do) so I had a cup of coffee and a couple of biscuits instead.

    Not defensive, its common sense. Your hardcore V8 man isnt gonna consider other competition in terms of other V6s but your average joe is looking at all cars and their positives and negatives eg V8 but shyte fuel efficiency vs V6 better efficiecny but less power etc. More so now because the SS offering what it does for so little price. Anyway with this defensive thing, hardly, you would know well that people here straight away have a go at Toyota for stupid things…

    QUOTE = I think an Aurion would suit you to a tee Lorry. Your an idiot just like the people who called the super sporty Aurion a ‘Sportivo’

    If that is the best you can do to knock the Aurion then they are doing something right aye! Its just a name mate, because its a sportier version than base. They are not saying its a sports car… so dont burst a blood vessel over it.

    QUOTE = drive around wondering why most people are laughing at you. God help us all.

    Lol the only people laughing will be Aurion owners…. All the way to the bank. Both in terms of having a better car and fuel efficiency wise, 10L per 100km vs 20L per 100km LOL!

  • steane

    Quote = Well they do… its called Lexus mate. But thanks to taxes, they are to expensive in Australia and also offer a very limited range compared to overseas.

    Yep – so its hardly relevant in this context then mate. We do live in Australia don’t we…?

    Quote = Yes I did… but what hes saying is right, with most other articles people straight away bring in the V8s… just look at that wheels car mag winner article.

    Yep – but I didn’t, you did…so I’m not sure what this has to do with me or this article or the comments? Stop getting so defensive, why bring other articles into this…?!?!

    Quote = Not defensive, its common sense. Your hardcore V8 man isnt gonna consider other competition in terms of other V6s but your average joe is looking at all cars and their positives and negatives eg V8 but shyte fuel efficiency vs V6 better efficiecny but less power etc. More so now because the SS offering what it does for so little price. Anyway with this defensive thing, hardly, you would know well that people here straight away have a go at Toyota for stupid things…

    Yep – finally you got the point, I thought it was common sense when I made that point. An SS buyer (ie NOT an average Joe)generally will not consider a V6 as an alternative and will generally not compare the SS to the Aurion before making the purchase! Thanks for finally friggin agreeing.

    If Holden called the SS the El’GRANDE LAROOSO I’d have a laugh with you about the name and how stupid it was not carry on like its someone poking fun at my daughter. Sportivo is a stupid name, have a laugh and hope they can come up with a better one some day. For the love of god don’t defend it, it’s just a stupid name!

    Quote = If that is the best you can do to knock the Aurion then they are doing something right aye! Its just a name mate, because its a sportier version than base. They are not saying its a sports car… so dont burst a blood vessel over it.

    Mate – Hmmm…not defensive you say? I don’t recall knocking the Aurion for anything but it’s name and for looking a little tame (IMO). I’ve even left the whole FWD thing alone in this post just for your benefit cos you get all worked up. This is the thanks I get…? I’ll say it for the third (and hopefully last) time…I think they are better built and have a better drivetrain than the equivalent Commodore or Falcon. No blood vessel popping here mate I couldn’t give a toss…I really couldn’t. I’m not and doubt that I ever will be in the market for an Aurion (that doesnt mean I think they are bad!!!!)so why would I get upset. I think you guys are a real laugh. This is better than watching American Hot Rod! Oh, and your getting defensive again, did I mention that?

    Quote = Lol the only people laughing will be Aurion owners…. All the way to the bank. Both in terms of having a better car and fuel efficiency wise, 10L per 100km vs 20L per 100km LOL!

    So YOUR comparing the Aurion to the V8 again…? So, ONE more time for the memories. Here we go. Please take notes. Turn the telly off, dry your eyes and really concentrate hard. You ready? Only the Aurion owner in this(your)example would give a toss. The SS buyer wouldn’t which is the point I have been making and the point you haven’t been getting, I thought you had but you obviously haven’t, so maybe now you can…or maybe not…probably not. We all buy cars for DIFFERENT reasons. Your big thing may be fuel consumption but the guy down the road may not give a rats arse about it besides which he will know that 20L per 100km is a ridiculous claim but then you are being defensive…again…so I will overlook this.

    If you don’t want the V8’s brought into the argument then don’t f*c#ing bring them into the f*c#ing argument. I haven’t. If you are silly enough to bring them in then cop it sweetly on the chin.

    I hope the Aurion does well, if it does well it will ne good in general for that class of car. I think SPORTIVO is a stupid name. I dont think the Aurion is a bad car. I think it is probably better in many ways than the equivalent Commodore or Falcon but IMO it doesnt look as good. I don’t think its comparable to an SS Commodore for obvious reasons. I HAVE REPEATED ALL OF THIS ONE MORE TIME AS BEING THE OPTIMIST THAT I AM I AM HOPING IT WILL BE UNDERSTOOD AND THE CRYING CAN STOP. I can hear the sobbing in my dreams and its quite disturbing.

    It would seem that Toyota means a great deal to insecure Australians.

  • http://AustrliancarAdvice Lorry

    Steane – what i have increasingly noticed in the past few years is alot of people from the Holden/Ford camp getting defensive towards Toyota because of thier huge upheavial. This blog was about the Aurion but most would undertsand that not only is it better quality then Commodores and Falcons but considerably more refined. For some reason since the Aurion Sportivo was released as with the upcoming TRD’s, many have stopped comparing the V6 Commodore (with it’s gruff engine and aged transmission) but for some reason want to harp on about the V8’s instead. Why is that !! Why carn’t Holden/Ford campers just compare apples with apples !!

    The only brmm brmm noises are coming from Holden drivers in thier vocal Commodores (unrefined and unwillinging to rev happily beyond 4000rpm)and those driving new Holden Daweoo imports with 2 star crash ratings. Ooh, and those complaining why thier cars are always in the garage.

    I don’t denying for a brief minute that GM v8’s pump out alot of horses but as far as i’m concerned they manufactuer some the worst V8’s amoung all. They are old school, have the tenancy to be unreliable and are considerably outclassed by the Germans and Japanese.

    Do some of us bloggers a favour Steane and don’t assume all people like yourself are interested in shitty Holden V8’s because thats’s exactly what they are. Have a wee look at the Skyline for example – humiliated the Holden/Ford joey on the hill and now CAMS has acted in away that nothing else but those who abide by the strict criteria set by them can compete. Talk about protect the humble Holden V8. Gee man… it’s 2007 and they are still using pushrods. That is absolutely dismal.

    Holdens (GM) biuld woeful cars at the best and as long as my arse faces the ground i’ll always show interest in more reputable companies. No Ford or Holden junk for me. The only poeple laughing Mr Steane are people like myself at those who insist of purchasing unreliable, poor quality, unrefined, gruff old school motor vehicles which spend more time being repaired then driven and all those terrible imports Holden have turned to because they don’t have the $$$ to produce anyhthing decent.

    My Aurion certainly wouldn’t suffer from piston slap and ongoing oil consumption issues. The GEN3 would have the most woeful modern day V8 sold on our shores -the problems they suffered was disgusting. Customers were spending up to 60 grand on a new car and having thier engines replaced with as little as 5 000km’s on the clock.

  • Paul

    Steane I just cant understand your V8 argument, it is stupid. People dont just think ‘Oh I want a V8, no other car, I wont consider anything else’, because thats what you are essentially saying. Im sorry but apart from your hardcore V8 fans, who just want a V8, EVERYONE else chooses a car based on a number of factors… and wouldnt choose an SS just because its a V8. The fact that so many VE SS’s are around is proof of this. Now your avg joe is looking into the SS over something like an SV6 which they may have previously bought because the V8 offers alot for the same price of a V6 nearly.

    QUOTE = So YOUR comparing the Aurion to the V8 again

    I brought it up first, but you blew it out of proportion… all I said initially is that I personally like the SS over the Aurion but from then on you’ve been going on about how V8 owners dont look at V6s. Your the one who is bursting a blood vessel here because you cant get my point, which others have.

    And going on the defensive, have a look through all my comments, Ive hardly been going on the defensive, just trying to drill into your skull that not all V8 owners look at V8’s only and wouldnt even consider V6’s… esp when these days they are coming out way more fuel efficient and quite fast. Maybe your still living in the past, when V6’s did the 100 in 9secs and only V8s got it into the 5s or so… but the gap is bridgin and alot of buyers these days aernt just hardcore V8 people Im afraid.

    QUOTE = It would seem that Toyota means a great deal to insecure Australians.

    Yes great call even though its the Holden one lol. More like Holden means a great deal to korea.

    Now RELAX mate, this isnt good for your health…. take a few deep breaths!

  • Paul

    QUOTE = I don’t denying for a brief minute that GM v8’s pump out alot of horses but as far as i’m concerned they manufactuer some the worst V8’s amoung all. They are old school, have the tenancy to be unreliable and are considerably outclassed by the Germans and Japanese.

    Yeah exactly… yuo give a lawnmower enough dissplacement it will be powerful, but a good engine, hardly. You just have to look at the decent car companies with far better engines pumping out similar power figures to GMs V8s with alot less dissplacement. They are dinosaurs still running with pushrod, very inefficient engines

  • steane

    Guys, I didn’t bring the V8’s into this, did I?. I did not compare the V8 to the TRD, did I?. I’ve hardly blown anything out of proportion just disagreed with you comparing the TRD to the SS, thats it and thats all, isn’t it? I haven’t even dared to say that the TRD couldn’t be better than the SS!


    If someone takes things beyond humorous and has a bit of a crack at me I’ll have a crack back but generally I prefer to keep things cool and on a sensible level unlike you Lorry. You have a penchant for wading in with all guns blazing.

    Lorry, I’ve owned the cars you talk about. I had an R33GTR Skyline for 5 years. I’ve owned 2 HSV’s with the holden V8,one with the Gen 3 and one with the LS2. I’ve never had an issue with any of them. Have you owned any of these cars or are you just an expert in talking about them? Please answer this question for me. I’d like to know how you presume to know so much. I can only assume that you have a large garage full of expensive motas.

    Paul. For the bloody 19th time, very few buyers of SS Commodores start off wondering which car to buy. SS, FPV, HSV buyers are like that. How do I know this…because I have bought them and met other owners and I know what they are like. I’ve been to the drive days. I’ve been to the track days. I have mates with HSV’s just like I have mates with Porsches and even a Maserati. Have you owned any of these cars? Have you hung out with these people? People who are interested in performace cars of this ilk? Have you owned a car with an LS2 V8 to know what they are like or talk about them with such authority? Please do divulge the source of your hands on experience and ultimate wisdom…and don’t say Wheels magazine.

    There is nothing worse than people talking about things they have had no experience with so I hope this is not the case with you two…?

    I really could not give a toss about Toyota or Nissan or Holden or Ford or Lawnmowers or Dinosaurs with Pushrods. My interest lies with performance cars and if anything I have a penchant for Porsche. Sorry to upset the whole Holden/FORD/Toyota love triangle you guys are so keen on fighting to maintain.

    I thought Holden and Ford guys were crazy but you two take it to a new level. You’re actually experts on cars I doubt you have ever owned let alone driven in any meaningful way. Your experts on what is and is not a good engine even though you haven’t owned them.

    Right through this whole post I’ve been fair to all but the name SPORTIVO and the tame looks of the car. Thats it.

    Get over it boys. I have to go to bed now I’ve got a big day tomorrow and all this laughing has given me a stomach ache. I know I’m not the one that needs to calm down or risk popping a vessel. Hehe…

    SPORTIVO is a very gay name. Goodnight.

  • Paul

    QUOTE = For the bloody 19th time, very few buyers of SS Commodores start off wondering which car to buy. SS, FPV, HSV buyers are like that

    Yes Im sure when you are talking about someone who is looking at a $70k GTS thats how it is…. but the SS isnt in the same class as that. People are going to consider all options because there are many more around $45k then there are for $70k.

    QUOTE = I have mates with HSV’s just like I have mates with Porsches and even a Maserati. Have you owned any of these cars? Have you hung out with these people?

    Mate my friends are bogans. One of my friends has a GTS, I know another guy through a friend who has a GTS and a friends parents who have a new VE SS. My experience isnt as extensive as yours, but I have alittle knowledge on this. And dont get me wrong, I kno what your talking about, the GTS guys were only looking at V8s… which I mentioned previously the reason being, but the friends parents who bought a SS had their options completely open, as many would because as Ive said its in a similar price range to alot of cars unlike something like a HSV or FPV car.

    QUOTE = Have you owned a car with an LS2 V8 to know what they are like or talk about them with such authority?

    Im not a V8 expert, but Ive been in a couple of them… mainly the GTS’. Sure they aernt bad, but did you read what I said, fact is they have an old crappy pushrod engine in their… the only reason why they get the power they do is because of dissplacement, not because of a well designed engine (as per my reference to a lawnmower). Unfortunately Im not just a braindead bogan who is all ‘derr power power power derr’ I also have an interest in how decent an engine is, particularly import considering there is this issue of fuel being a non-renewable resource, so an engine deisgn that produces the same power but much more efficient I will praise over a piece of shyte pushrod engine decades past its use by date. As said, there are Lexuses out there with 2L less dissplacement yet producing similar power figures, with better efficiency. Congrats to Holden for making an inefficient V8… its not like any other car company could do that…………………………….

  • http://AustrlianCarAdvice Mick W.

    I recently drove an Aurion Sportivo while on holidays in WA and was pleasantly surprised. They are a real joy to drive. They are high in quality, refinement, packaging and that 3.5v6 is a real gem. At one stage i had the engine beyond 6000rpm and didn’t even know until i looked at the taco. Give ’em some boot and they are willing to be driven hard. Would i buy one… ABSOLUTELY.

    A once owned a 5.7 VT and the damn thing gave me nothing but constant heart ache. I sold it a couple of years ago because it was troublesome and ended up with a ’04 V6 manual Camry Sportivo. Not as fast naturally but to date the car has not let me down on one single accoassion. Give it some stick also and it won’t disappoint most. It is smooth, well engineered, has snappy brakes, resonable handling and a very smooth ride. Toyota quality is hard to pass.

    Some above say that when looking for performance then many won’t look at the Aurion but i say when looking for reliability/dependability, longevity, quality, refinement and decent resale then many wouldn’t bother looking at a Holden… i certainly wouldn’t.

    Steane, if you want to buy a Holden V8 then fill’ya boots by all means but i was once bitten and certainly twice shy. My V8 VT would have to be one of my worst decisions yet and the resale was nothing short of appualing.

  • http://AustrlianCarAdvice Lorry

    Steane, my ocupation for nearly 9 years now is auto-motive spare parts. I have worked for Holden, Toyota and currently with Ford. I believe with my experince i have sound understanding with reference to our discussion.

  • steane

    A spare parts salesman and a guy who thinks that driving a V8 makes you a Bogan… I love the way that word gets trotted out.

    You guys are fully qualified for this conversation it would seem but you should refer in future posts to the source of your qualification ie a friend of a friend of a third cousin once removed and having once sold an airfilter for a Gen3.

    Paul – do you know why pushrods are still being used?

    And now a guy who drives an 04 Sportivo…Hmmm. I’ll keep my eye out for that on Top Gear.

    If you think the V8’s are so bad why are you so fixated with them?

    I’m going to go and start a Performance Car Blog for sensible people, who can mount a good argument about cars they have driven and can actually afford to buy.

  • Paul


    QUOTE = Paul – do you know why pushrods are still being used?

    I assume because GM couldnt be bothered to invest money into designing a decent engine (remember only recently they werent exactly financially sound), so they run with a dinosaur. All good and well, I spose 20L per 100km isnt that bad…

    QUOTE = You guys are fully qualified for this conversation it would seem but you should refer in future posts to the source of your qualification ie a friend of a friend of a third cousin once removed and having once sold an airfilter for a Gen3.

    Yeah thats it… Im sorry I didnt know this was a forum only for those with qualifications. Lol your a joke, you need a qualification to say that a V8 owner might look into buying a V6 LMAO!! I speak based on personal experience, thats good enough in this discussion.

    N e way good to see you’ve admitted defeat, now run along and let the grown ups continue their conversation.

  • steane

    I’m baaaaaack….!

    Paul, you do need a practical point of reference when you start saying that a certain mechanical design is crap or as you insist gets 20 L/100, along with you many other pearls of wisdom. If you haven’t owned one then how the frig do you know whats its like and how can you compare beyond on paper stats? Cos your mates cousin knows the guy down the road with one? I’ve commented on the Aurions name and how it looks, not how it goes, because I haven’t had one to live with for a week or three.

    FYI pushrods are still being used because they are still the most efficient way to package an engine from a size and weight point of view. These days the modern pushrod engines will easily rev in the high 6000 to 7000 rpm range in street trim. I’ve OWNED both types of engine and the real world difference is bugger all. It’s just another way of opening the valves…big bloody deal. So there you go…you’ve learnt something.

    Now what would you guys talk about without me? You would be back to your slow, boring, droll and uninteresting comments, about cupholders and feeling more secure with FWD and how only Bogans like RWD yada…yada…yada. I’ve made your life interesting if only for a brief moment in time. You’d miss me too much so I’m going to hang around for a while and stop you from flat-lining. Thats quite different to redlining…

  • Paul

    Oh and just to calrify Steane, I know what you would say about Pushrods… Ive heard it all before… they use it because they have a lower centre of gravity rar rar rar. Its all bullsh*t.

  • steane

    Oh…ok then.

  • Paul

    QUOTE = If you haven’t owned one then how the frig do you know whats its like and how can you compare beyond on paper stats?

    You musnt have read what I said before. My friends are bogans… I drive in these types of engines all the time, I have an idea not just from what reliable reviews say but practical experience… maybe not as comprehensive as yourself, but this isnt a courtroom…

    QUOTE = FYI pushrods are still being used because they are still the most efficient way to package an engine from a size and weight point of view. These days the modern pushrod engines will easily rev in the high 6000 to 7000 rpm range in street trim. I’ve OWNED both types of engine and the real world difference is bugger all. It’s just another way of opening the valves…big bloody deal. So there you go…you’ve learnt something.

    Well the decent car companies dont agree… because not many use pushrod. And pushrod engines make me cry late night in the dark, looking at how retardly designed they are compared to something efficient like DOHCs. And no its NOT just another way of opening valves, with pushrod you are limited to 2 valves per cylinder and cant use things like vvti… thats why companies can make 4L engines with the same power as a pushrod engine… they are technologically inferior.

  • steane

    I’ve never driven in an engine before.

  • Paul


    Yes great point…. evidently you have no comeback. Ive given you your ‘practical point of reference’ LMAO, and whats your comeback? Nothing. What can you say… ‘oh 2 valves per cylinder is better’…. ‘who needs vvti’…. lol POS engines.

  • http://www.alborzfallah.com alborz

    Keep on topic guys,

    I agree with Steane to a certain point,

    when you go looking for an SS commodore or an XR8, you go looking for just that, and nothing else,

    much like when I bought my WRX, I knew I was going to buy one, there was really no competition, its a boyhood obsession that can’t be broken by “better trim” or some more technology.

    Agree to disagree.

  • Paul

    WRX is completely different… an SS isnt really a performance car per say, its got 4 doors and weighs 1800kg ffs. I speak based on expereience, I already mentioned I know someone who bought an SS and their options were open… fair enough with a GTS people aernt gonna look at other cars, but at $45k for an SS alot of competition exists.

  • http://www.alborzfallah.com alborz

    WRX isn’t completely different, believe it or not, its exactly the same, those who want a WRX… want a WRX.. its simple (well till the Lancer GSR comes out next year)

    the SS is a performance car to many,

    at 45k for a V8 with street cred, the only other choice is an XR-8. and that has already been decided based on the buyers personal choice on ford vs holden.

  • steane

    It’s like dealing with a 15 year old. How old are you Paul?

    Do, I need a comeback? I don’t recall claiming that pushrods were better than OHC, just and I quote…”another way of opening the valves…”.

    You are the one making the claims no doubt a product of your astounding technical and practical experience in these things. I can’t compete as I have never driven an engine…and I haven’t, I have to be honest about that. None of my friends have either…now that I come to think of it.

    And why do you need to be so rude. Are all Toyota drivers like you?

    Anyway, I think from memory this post was about the Aurion Sportivo. Do you know how many cup holders it has and what no doubt makes them the best cup holders known to man?

  • steane

    Hi Alborz…he won’t get it. Believe me, I know:-)

  • steane

    An SS isn’t a performance car now…
    Too slow maybe?
    Oh, I know, its not FWD!
    No, I forgot, its got pushrods thats got to be it.

  • http://AustrlianCarAdvice Lorry

    Steane, why is that it is acceptable for Holden/Ford campers to have a knock at those who refer more reputatble brands but when the table turns then those who prefer not to drive SS’s etc have no life, are desperate, agro and what ever other lame excuse may be passed. I am more inclined to accept that Pro Holden/Ford people are not sure how to deal with those who drive what i consider to be superior engineered vehicles. Stop saying that we rely on folks like ‘ya self for entertainment because it holds little or no relavance what so ever. Remember, this forum is open for discussions either way so accept it.

    The reason why GM still use pushrods is a very simple and uncomplicated matter – purely to do with cost of Research and Development as with the extra expense of engineering more advanced engines. What i clearly rememeber a few years ago was Holden/Ford campers having a go at multi-vavle engines etc etc stating that there is just more to go wrong but the test of time and endurance has proven beyong doubt that these engines manufactuered by the Germans and Japanese are ultra reliable with excellent longevity. The more simple yesterday engineered cars have proven to be quite the opposite with ongoing/continuing reliabilty issues and engineering flaws.

    I ask you a question Steane, have you driven an Aurion Sportivo or would you drive an upcoming TRD version ?? You will probably say ‘yes’ but the odds are that you haven’t and that you won’t so what makes you qualified to pass comment.

    Why is that some think you have to drive a SS or eqivalent to be qualified to pass comment. It is absolutely stupid for some to even insist that. I personally prefer German and Japanese engineering becuase they produce some fantatstic cars that are high in quality, refinement, reliability/dependability and not to mention the longevity of there engines.

  • http://AustrlianCarAdvice Lorry

    Paul – trying to get some to undertsand that thier cars are poorly engineered, unreliable etc and that there are many superior alternatives is like bashing your head against the wall. They are just not going to get it. They live in the ’70/’80 and somehow got lost in time.

    Why did CAMS take the actions they did is a very poor way indeed to admit humiliation by the Japanese and now only 5.0ltr dinasour v8’s that are RWD can compete. BORING. I would much prefer to see the likes of Mitsubishi, Toyota and Honda or even BMW, Mercedes etc competing but unfortunately for Holden and Ford they’ll probably find an uphill battle to keep pace and orgnisations like CAMS are completly aware of this.

  • steane

    I have not driven the latest Aurion or Sportivo Lorry. But I have also not commented on it aside from its name SPORTIVO and its styling, so I’m not sure of your point here. Do I need to drive one to know what it is named or how it looks?

    I have actually made it clear that I think it is ‘probably’ (because I haven’t driven it) better than the equivalent Commodore or Falcon with regards to quality and drivetrain. I don’t know how to be any clearer than this?!? I am telling you guys that I think the Aurion is BETTER and have done from the start. Do I have to get a photo of myself draped naked across the bonnet of one before you will READ what I am writing?

    Would I drive a TRD – absolutely! It looks great and I have acknoledged this in another post. Its being built by Prodrive so I am sure it will be quite capable. Would I buy one…probably not, because its not me but if you do and want to let me take it for a fang then count me in!

    You guys have a huge issue with “Holden & Ford Guys” that you need to deal with in order to move forward. I am neither. I may drive one but there are many other cars that I aspire to.

    GM, including Holden have OHC cam multi valve engines with variable valve timing. So R&D cost wouldnt appear to be the issue that you perceive but fitting a big engine under the sloping bonnets of todays cars is a challenge (thats why Ford’s Falcon has a bonnet bulge for the OHC V8 models) and despite what you really want to think or hope this is the reason for pushrods in the Chev motor.

    Alborz has asked us to stay on topic so we should respect this I think but I want it noted for posterity that I still think ‘Sportivo’ is a gay name, which is on-topic because the topic is the Sportivo…

  • http://australiancaradvice Mick W.

    Despite ‘Sportivo’ being a gay name as according to some, the brand has actually become quite popular. Observe how many Camry Sportivo’s that travel around as a fine example. Toyota only released the enhanced versions a couple of years ago yet have grown to be somewhat popular.

    Personally, i believe they look the part and having driven a few i must say they are not a bad drive. The V6 Camry is very sweet but the Aurion is a completely different car to drive, alot more driveable. I have convidence that TRD will do wonders for Toyota here in Australia and will certianly make decent inroads towards performance once again as they did with Celica GT4’s and high powered Supra’s.

  • Paul

    Ignorance is bliss Steane – Good though that you admit defeat.

    Back on topic, its true the sportivo is prity popular, they had a Sprotivo Corolla i believe and a Sportivo Echo in the past. Its not claimed to be some sports car, just a sportier version than stock, which there is obviously a market for.

  • Riker

    I have been driving the Aurion Sportivo ZR6 for the past 4 weeks now. Am very impressed with it. The engine/drivetrain is firstclass, and the power is there if you want to use it. Cabin noise is minimal – you are above the speed limit before you know it. Overall quality of finish is surprisingly good. I like the new look also – the bodykit distinguishes it more clearly from the new Camry.

    I agree that the name ‘Sportivo’ is a questionable choice however. Toyota should have dropped it, to avoid comparisons and negative perceptions with older box like ‘Sportivos.’

    I am surprised the Aurion in this and other blogs have only made comparisons with Falcons and Commodores. The size of the Aurion is really between a medium and large sized car.

    I compared the Aurion ZR6 to other cars with a similar price i.e. $40-55k and testdrove quite a few cars before settling for the ZR6. This included the Mazda 6 Luxury Sports, Liberty 3.0R, Accord V6L and Euro Luxury. For what you get, with the engine, features, and …surprisingly… build quality, I think it is an absolute steal.

  • Damo

    I think I might just put my input in here now, just to keep Steane happy. I am just going to say who cares about it… ALmost all of you people bashed my TMR 380 so just jam it you camry lovers (aurion tomatoe tomato 4 cylinder v6 etc.). I will go with Steane and agree that the new SS commodore beats this car (while it is the only ve i like) simply because for 55k you get a lot of value and if you spent 20k you could get a supercharger and a bunch of other goodies and kill an HSV R8 or GTS Senator. At the same time I might do some stirring about Holden. This thing claims to be a world class car? How can anything with a v8 engine assembled in Mexico and the rest of the car manufactured in Elizabeth (spend one night there it feels like a 3rd world country in australia) be a world class car? I wouldn’t call anything local a true sports car, even my lovely TMR 380. But I Holden is so far off, simply because, commondores are just way too heavy to be a sports car.

  • steane

    G’day Damo.
    Nice to see you drop in to the war zone, unfortunately you missed the action…you could have opened up a second front.

    Jimmy Barnes won’t be too happy hearing you talk about Elizabeth like that…although I have to agree but then I don’t think Altona or Broadmeadows are any more salubrious…

    I agree that hi-po family saloons are not ‘sports’ cars but I don’t think they are trying to be. They can definately be ‘performance’ cars in the GT style and the SS fits into this category, despite its silly pushrods and an engine built by a bunch of liquored-up Amigos. I suspect the TRD Aurion will be a genuine performance car as well. The more the merrier as far as I am concerned!

  • doug?

    New Aurion ZR6 owner:D

  • texas ecological sodomite

    Although I am not Italian, I recall someone telling me that “sportivo” is an Italian word. Some cars are described as sportivos, e.g. some Maseratis.

    Many people bag the Aurion because it is not a very sporty car, but the Aurion is supposed to be more focused on luxury.

    steane: “They are cars for the masses. Another form of whitegood.”

    Excluding cars that are made in limited production, e.g. Ferraris, virtually all cars are made for masses of people. E.g. the VE Commodore Omega is made for the masses. Its looks are in my opinion quite bland as well, but the appearance improves as you go up to the likes of the SS, Calais, etc.

    Lazybones: “But anyway, the Aurion. Not too bad on the eyes, Excellent engine, But Sporty – err NO, way too many doors & seats!!”

    A purist would argue that a true sports car would only have two seats. All the great supercars are two-seaters, e.g. the Bugatti Veyron, the Lambo Murcielago, etc. This is because the extra seats add weight, which causes handling and speed to suffer. But the market the Aurion operates in is not that concerned with sporty performance. If they were, they wouldn’t buy four-seaters. Many Falcon and Commodore fans criticize the Aurion for having FWD because it is less sporty, but the reality is that most people who buy Falcons and Commodores accept features that are hardly sporty, such as automatic transmission, back seats, and heavy weight. The Falcon, Commmodore, Aurion, and 380 operate in the market between luxury and sport.

    steane: “Hi Paul. I see where you are coming from. The Toyota does have a better engine and is better built. But…and as I’ve said before, it looks sooooo boring and its called a SPORTIVO…which just kills me.”

    So you would rather judge a car by its fashion statement as the sound of its name rather than look at engine quality, reliability, running costs, etc? What values are you teaching your children? It’s like an employer who hires workers not on academic achievement or work experience but on how pretty their clothes, hair, and shoes are or how cool their name sounds.

    Steane, you seem interested in masculine muscle cars, yet you judge a car by whether it’s fashionable, whether it has a pretty name, etc. Hmmmm.

    Paul: “And is anyone gonna comment on that LPG!! It was funny seeing people say the low fuel consumption of the Aurion means nothing cos Holden have LPG (in previous articles), esp to fleets this would be better… but fact is it will cost fleets more as they will never get the extra money back from the LPG Omega (I believe its $40k for the LPG Omega) and even for your average driver it would take some time.”

    LPG on new cars (e.g. the Falcon E-gas) was a flop. Only like 50 per month are sold. It makes no sense to buy a brand new LPG car because the premium you pay for the LPG will never be paid off. You’d have to drive the Falcon E-gas for a little less than a million kilometers till it becomes cheaper than a 4-cyl Camry on petrol. By then the premium you paid on LPG…if you put that money into an alternative investment, e.g. shares, could have made you even more money. LPG makes sense on second-hand cars because they are cheap to buy. Buy one and convert it.

    steane: “There is a massive difference between the driving experience of a 6.0ltr Chev and 3.5 ltr Aurion. 200kw is ok but its not about power, its about torque and there is no comparison. A big capacity engine is just a whole new ball game.”

    You say it’s about torque, not about fuel efficiency, etc. But the reality is that these criteria are yours. You should accept that your criteria for the rating of a car may differ to others’ and that yours is not the objective criteria.

    steane: “Buyers of V8’s don’t look at an Aurion and think, hey thats only 70kw less and there is a semi trailer load of torque missing but it gets 10.0LPH. They just don’t look at Aurions.”

    Of course, if someone is concerned about fuel economy why would he get a large V8? You’re just confiming that different people want different things, which is obvious. But you are seem to be hinting that the Aurion is inferior because it doesn’t fulfill the needs of a group of people who were probably not even targeted by Toyota marketing in the first place, namely the performance large car crowd. Every month about 200 HSVs are sold, which is nothing compared to the number of normal Commodores sold, which is about 4500 per month. These Commodores are usually purchased by fleets, governments, and families. A large portion of these people probably don’t care about RWD, V8 engines, etc and would rather have reliability, refinement, and fuel efficiency.

    Steane: “The only people interested in fuel consumption are those buying smaller engined cars.”

    Actually, a small car is not practical for everyone. If you’re a couple with three grown children, try fitting the entire family into a Barina or Getz. The large family would have to look for something that can carry the family and they would also like to reduce their fuel bill as well. Anyway, if what you said is true, that people who are interested in fuel consumption buy small cars, then how do you explain all the people who buy large cars that run on LPG?

    steane: “And just for the record, the Market is not moving away from V8’s. They are selling as well as ever if not better than ever. HSV for example are selling more cars than ever. The V8’s have a nice little niche going and aren’t suffering the slower sales of 6 cylinder equipped large cars like the…um…Aurion.”

    Before the development of the Aurion, Toyota knew the large car market would go down. This would explain why Toyota didn’t totally reinvest and built the Aurion up from the Camry. The VE Commodore on the other hand was a billion dollar investment on a new platform. Toyota didn’t expect the Aurion to sell as well as, say, its Corolla, but the Aurion didn’t need to sell well to cover the costs of its investment and research. Ford will do something similar with its upcoming Falcon. Rather than being a brand new Falcon it will just be the same Falcon with a new exterior. Even if this new Falcon sells worse than the VE Commodore, the whole thing may be more profitable.

    Steane: “You’re actually experts on cars I doubt you have ever owned let alone driven in any meaningful way. Your experts on what is and is not a good engine even though you haven’t owned them.”

    Actually, experience is not necessary. You can learn about a car by looking at statistics. In fact, experience, e.g. by driving the car yourself can lead to bias because of sampling error. The car you drive may be the exception. E.g. among all Honda Civics maybe only 0.05 per cent have broken down, yet you may be the one who drove those few Civics that have broken down and you may conclude based on your experience that the Civic is unrealiable without even considering the number of other Civics that have not broken down. Judging cars before buying them is legitimate and occurs often before new car purchasing. For example, it is done by fleet managers.

    Damo: “How can anything with a v8 engine assembled in Mexico and the rest of the car manufactured in Elizabeth (spend one night there it feels like a 3rd world country in australia) be a world class car?”

    What’s wrong with Mexico? Commodore V8s have been coming from Mexico for a long time. Aurions are made in Australia, but I don’t think the engine is.

  • paul is WRONG again

    thats shite

  • ‘It’s A Sportivo’! (yawns)

    yeah, paul.

  • Myke

    I wouldn’t exactly say that having 5 extra kW’s makes the Aurion a better sports car than the SV6.

  • alskar

    to steane,as we all know..we are almost running out of fuel…why would u wanna buy a sedan v8 if u wanna race?i highly doubt ur sv6 can actually beat a 2 seater v4,as the power-to-weight of the 2 seater is better than ur sv6.This aurion is giving u abit more power and at the same time save up fuel for u as it only consume 9.9L compared to ur v8-16L/100kms. If u want power,as u say..get ur sv6.Just trying to tell u,u’re comparing a v8 and a v6(fuel economy & bit more power for some fun)..bottomline,it’s just a sedan family car..

  • Tim

    I’ve recently purchased one, waiting for the delivery, so I’m not going to try to argue whether it’s better than a SV6 or XR6 or anything else in the market. For me, it offers the combination of luxury, performance and price that I’m looking for (although, significantly sized discounts from my work helps that a lot).

    One thing I would note about Steane’s original point about the name ‘Sportivo’ – I agree that it’s an absolutely awful title that’s a hangover from the Corolla and Camry. I’ve always referred to my car as a ‘ZR6′ (as opposed to the Sportivo SX6), and people will nod and smile and go ‘ahh, the sports one’.

    I’m of the opinion that the Aurion in any of its forms doesn’t compete against any of the V8s. Its primary market lies in attracting:

    a) Camry drivers looking to get something more exciting (who would otherwise leave the Toyota stable);
    b) Drivers looking at the low end (50-70k) luxury marques; and
    c) Most importantly, fleets with an eye on the bottom line.

    I fall more into category (a) – I abandoned a uni-purposes Echo to get a new car now that I’ve been working for a while. I certainly didn’t look at the SS when I was shopping around. I was comparing it to the Accord Euro, Falcon XR6, and the IS250. I know a two guys who’ve purchased the Aurion Presara (uber-luxury model) on the grounds that it was cheaper than a Lexus with all the same features, plus more.

    I wouldn’t get a Camry, simply because it looks ugly, even with Sportivo enhancements (Camry spoiler looks awful!); however, the Aurion, despite being based on the same body, looks significantly better. And if the worry’s in a name, then drop the ‘Sportivo’ image and identify it for what it actually is – a ZR6.

  • New ZR6 Owner

    I bought one for the simple fact I get a new company car every year and every year they gave me a holden. Well this year I had a choice. My last VZ, holden you should hang your heads in shame producing this bucket of crap. The most unreliable, fuel guzzling, poorly assembled, uncomfortable piece of shyte I have ever driven (when it wasnt in the shop and it was actually going of course).New SV6,New XR6 – not a pinch on the ZR6. Say what you like about it, its still a better car for the money and will be running long after those other pieces of crap have been crushed into cubes, shipped of to china and recycled back into heinz spaghetti tins. A V8 its not, a reliable car, with a silky smooth engine, with plenty of power to you get you into, or out of trouble, it is. Thats why I bought one. I dont see the point in paying the General or Henry the same price to house my new car in their workshop.

  • John McKinney

    Hi all
    I have recently purchased a Aurion Sportivo SX6.This car is a large family saloon that is sporty, has performance that is certainly fun when you want to boot it which is more than acceptable for a 3.5litre, has amazing fuel consumption and a build quality that is far superior than the rest that gives a quiet smooth effortless experience.All these cars are good SV6 and XR6 and SX6 but the Toyota is at a level of quality that the rest have yet to achieve. The motor is silky smooth and loves to rev with a growl that sounds just great.In comparision I found the SV6 sluggish and at revs the motor sounds just horrible, I have not driven the XR6 for awhile so can’t comment. If historic bias is put to one side and these cars where unbadged the Aurion would be seen for what it is.A great piece of design and engineering that from my experience only the Japs can do properly and thats why the Lexus is the top selling luxury car now in the US over anything the Europeans car produce. And to finish this car is from a pedigree that has no equal for relability and demand in the second hand market, which is also why the Camry is the top selling car in the US. Lastly reading some comments already here about making a comparison between the Aurion and Holden SS is really not appropriate, two very different cars and markets and purchase decisions made for very different reasons.
    Regards John

  • ivory_kitten

    Does anyone actually know when they are planning on releasing the TRD Aurion?

  • david willo

    their is a lot of whinging about the name sportivo but lets face it .its only a name.A family i know had a camery on loan from a car yard due to their v8 commodore was broke down down.said toyato to slow i asked what was wrong with their car & they said they were putting a new diff in it GREAT car was 2years old with 50k on it my daughter has a 2000 commodore 8 times to get air con fixed terrific what you think.i would hate to think of getting a motor fixed.buy any TOYATO and at least it will keep on going.maybe a lot of you winging cant afford a sportivo all you winging buy one and see 4 yourself how good they are
    a message from a no1 toyato fan worlds no1 car seller.its a pity ford & holden dont make a great car like toyato.toyato lexus worlds no1 car 2007 stick that up all you ford & holden drivers.get a life buy

  • Jamison

    First off, Sportivo is an italian word.

    And yes, I think Toyota should opt for something more aggressive and attention catching for their..err.. sports models.

    I work as an automotive design engineer… ahem just starting, actually overseas getting exposed on major vehicle projects around the globe and I can tell you something about Toyota specificall why they make cars that appeal to the masses rather than the weekend racers or the young 20 year olds…

    Because it makes them money. And yes, if you are in the market for a car, and you are not rich nor have the 50k cash in hand to purchase it out right… you actually have criterias to fill out when you buy a car. And Joe Average out there far outweighs the Joe Millionaires or Joe 50K Cash-in hands. So they rate the car which suits them best… again The average 20 something are primarily on the low 20K price tag or on the second hand market, so Toyota and other successful manufacturers out there are aware of this. So they design their vehicles for those people who are stable in their careers with family and simply want a car they can drive everyday without problems… and thats Toyota mentality for you, and it works. And hence why other manufacturers are losing millions, whilst Toyota is number 1 and actually still expanding. And all the companies out there have their eyes on copying Toyota’s principles in car manufacturing… ahem Honda, Hyundai, GM, VW comes to mind.
    Mind you though, Toyota did kill off the Celica, MR-2 (yes even the girly last model), Soarer, Supra… but tell you something most aren’t probably aware… but some of those models are on the back burner just waiting for approval… and besides Lexus is considered to be Toyota’s upper echelon of performance and luxury vehicles. For instance, the IS350… yes 350.. 228 kW V6 version of the IS250 is due to come out next year… technically thats a Toyota car their, obviously with superior parts and features… but still under that L badge, Toyota engineers and designers produced it.

    For actual Toyota badged sports/performance cars, well maybe in a few years since they want to be fore front runners on high performance Hybrid engines.. and they dont see the point of simply using bigger bores or bigger engines to produce power…. the future of sports cars relies on their ability to be efficient in terms of fuel and cheap production.

  • http://. ROBERTO

    Bloody very nice, shame TRD was not as well done as front on this is not overkill and stylish as with upturned finish around driving lights real nice. I would fairdinkum buy one of these, inside is very stylish!!!

  • Matthew

    Last week had my first drive, and ‘chauffered’ in the SX6 Aurion.
    1st impressions – front and rear passenger leg room is terrific – had the car loaded up with 5 big-ish lads. Shoulder room in the back was a bit lacking, especially when it is warm in Nth Qld!! But the seats were comfy, and aircon worked ok. Overall, the cabin is livable.

    However, when I got the chance to have a steer I was left wondering what all the fuss is about.
    Steering was light on centre, and not that confident, and pickup on throttle was slow to respond, and then a rather sudden and un-inspiring down change. And a bit to much wheel spin without really trying. Got a few ‘looks’ from the boys in the back…
    All in all, my 30min behind the wheel left me feeling like it was just another town car, and certainly not for drivers.
    I don’t mind the styling, and I’m sure it makes a good long haul cruising car, but for a driver, it left a lot to be be desired.
    My 2c.

  • Bob

    Hm what else to say then (TOYOTA)soon the biggest car maker in the world.

  • Kapil

    HOLDEN SUXS !!!!

    You wanna race, buy a Porche..
    You wanna get huge fuel & repair bills buy FORD or HOLDEN.
    Need a decent family car, buy any TOYOTA…


    Nah mate!
    Blu oval all the way!!!
    Holden’s gay cos the gay mofo motorway patrol cops drives it. (ppl might think ur an undercover fag – but then again cops also drive ford)

    Toyota rocks if u wanna save money in the long run.

    Aurion’s dash looks too cheap compared to its outside

  • http://xr6 FordFutureDriven

    Pfft Porsche Typhoon is better.

  • Duck

    …………………. ……………….. … … …

  • MASH

    I have recently test drived the ZR6 (I wont even use the word “Sportivo”)and also the SX6. My first reaction with the ZR6… “My Dear God…If you love me, please help me buy this gorgeous girl” I could not believe my eyes nor my ears when I sat in the driver seat for the 1st time.. It was like love at first sight..My heart pumped like a fat kids heart after a long run. I kid you not! I used to love Subaru’s (I still do abit) after driving the ZR6 my feelings changed completely. My uncle is a Holden lover…Me and my old man took the ZR6 (demo car) to his house to have a glare.. His reaction was PRICELESS after sitting in the leather sport seats, and revving up the engine. He actually apologized for talking crap about the Aurion. My point: Dont believe everything you hear or see UNTIL, YOU experience it..

    If you want power/grunt over reliability & handling, and you dont mind high maintenance, stress, waste of time & money, then go for a Holden.

    Thats my 2 cents.. Congratz to all the ZR6 owners! I know you will not be dissappointed. And Happy New Year!

  • MASH

    Also forgot to mention a pat on the back and appluase for “Lorry”.. All I can say is: You Holden & Ford fella’s just wait until Toyota brings out their V8 monsters…Then it will be shit like “Ohhhh but the bore is smaller compared to the Holden” or “Holden sounds better than Toyota” or some lame childish comment, to satisfy themselves that Toyota is not and will never be as good as Holden/Ford. Holden/Ford will die out and lose so much unless they start making cars for a larger market, (e.g, less power, less fuel consumption, better build quality, more reliability) PLUS.. Consider Fuel Consumption in another 4-5 years… LOL when petrol is $2.00 – $2.20. We will be laughing, while you V8 heads will be crying to the servo.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Shakes head……….yet another…….sigh!!!!!!!!

  • Andrew M

    maybe you better do a comparo on the fuel consumption between the aurion and falcon and you will see that they are neck and neck for consumption figures.

    yet another one fooled that fords are fuel guzzlers. i find it so funny that people assume that the aurion is the savior for large car running costs cause it is no better

  • Bavarian Missile

    Hey Andrew M ………Even more interesting in one breath hes on about Toyota’s new V8 {which I looking forward too welcoming into V8 Supercars….Russell may do better in that then with Morris!}then the next hes on about the cost of fuel and how much V8 people are fools……and that old reliability brought into it AGAIN……..Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

  • Andrew M

    yeah i know, ha ha ha
    it is hard to win with hypocrites though, as just found out on that other post

  • Andrew M

    did you read the bit where russel has come out and said morris is the best driver in the field and his cars are heaps better too?

    the statement yeilds a contradiction as morris didnt perform that well in the standings last year so both of those cant be true

  • Bavarian Missile

    Is Russell on drugs????????? I read the bit where he said he didn’t know why more drivers didn’t move over to Morris………..yep…right!

    Morris a good driver………in what? I loved the time Longhurst punched him through the window of the Coke BMW I think it was!!!!!that was funny!

    Not long to wait before it all starts again..what an interesting year it will be!

  • Andrew M

    yeah i remember seeing that.

    i thought it was gardiner who was throwing them through the window though.
    unless im thinking of something else

  • Oz.

    That MASH sounds like a media freak who gets brainwashed by these bird brain greenies and can’t tell #### from clay

  • Oz.

    Mash, go away! We don’t want more idiots brainwashed by media.

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Hey MISH MASH – ummmm gee Ford have cars which have great economy. Mate you friends with those other freaks on here MIKKA, TP as sure there must be triplets there…poor Mother if that was true

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    FORD does not mean V8’s when others in stable that are 4cylinders

  • MASH

    Oz, and what makes you say I’m brainwashed by media? I’m far from being brain-washed. You guys get so worked up because you know its true mate, and you call us defensive lol. How funny… Hahah you call us Bird Brain Greenies? Nice mate, what else you got in your ‘advanced’ vocabulary you picked up in 4th grade? LMAO. You say I’m brainwashed, ah no No mate, unfortunately you and people alike are brainwashed. I bet you pull off to Holden & Ford ad’s.

    Andrew M: I compared, Im not sure if you call this neck to neck:

    Aurion ZR6 – Fuel economy ADR 81/00: 9.9
    Ford XR6 – Fuel economy ADR 81/00: 12.9

    (These are both NON turbo cars)

    Unless your referring to a different Falcon?
    And also, I was mainly talking about Holden’s, even though I still believe most Fords are fuel guzzlers. Compared to more than 70% of cars I think they ARE exactly that.
    Thanks for the fun/interesting convo Oz, maybe see you on the road one day, you can teach me some of them beaut words you have in your arsenal.
    Have fun.

  • Oz.

    No, I don’t need to read your rubbish…
    You are a brainwash media person the way you like the fuel figures. Just give your self up. We love our Ford/Holden because of rivaly – Toyota nothing to do with it.

  • jbot

    Oz, so the fact that he’s test-driven them and has based his comments on that means he is brainwashed by the media? I wouldn’t be surprised if you’ve never driven a car, and just base your comments on what you read on the net. You are a fool.

  • Oz.

    jbot, what this got to do with you??? I doubt if you’ve driven a car.

    No crap comments exepted thanks!

  • Bavarian Missile

    Hey AndrewM do you EVER check your mail???????Or is it cause your on holidays? It may have been Captain Chaos too thumping Morris….Im sure there is a line that want the opportunity!! Gardner was great on a Bike but should have stayed away from cars!
    Ok where is Wheelnut haven’t heard from him all day!

    I should ring him that will shock him!!!!!hahaha

    Um what fuel are you running in the Aurion Mash?? 12.9 around town in a Falcon………I reckon there better than that on 98! Fords are more than just Falcon as are Toyota more than an Aurion! I personally couldn’t give 2 hoots about fuel economy……I mean anyone that buys a V8 knows their not after economy! I personally would ride a bike than drive a Prius……apart for the Sat Nav that Golfschwein says is good cant see any reason to have one and now they have a wagon………greatttttttttttt…..hahaha

  • Oz.

    Riding a push bike is better than driving Hybrid – So they not that green afterall and also no fuel needed!

  • Bavarian Missile

    Dont worry too much about them Oz they can start their own little blog on I LOVE TOYOTAS…..OR SHOW US YOUR TOYOTA …….OR HOW MUCH FUEL ECONOMY DO YOU GET FROM YOUR AURION …….

    REAL SOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hehehehe Then we don’t have to listen to them chant on any longer!!!!!!

    Got a surprise for some of you so check your emails!!!!!

  • Oz.

    Umm….Jbot? When did I ever say Falcons use less fuel than a Toyota Aurion? Thats what your last immature post sounded like.

  • Oz.

    Yeah…Bavarian…Missile…”My Toyota blog comming soon!” So we can never see their comments again.

  • MASH

    Dickhead, if you havn’t realised, figures mean alot.
    If YOU knew sh*t from clay, you would know even 5-10 Kw or HP can mean alot depending on the circumstance. You would also know that THOSE figures actually mean something? Even ONE atom means something. Mate you can’t even spell “Rivalry” yet alone know the meaning. Stop talking horse sh*t. Jbot makes sense when he talks, not jumbled up kid talk. Perfect word for you Oz, “Fool”. Your the type that doesn’t want to accept “Rivalry” even if its slaps you hard in the face. Toyota has got alot to do with Rivalry, they’ve had cars in rally for a long time. What do you call that? Hmmmmm? Rivalry doesn’t mean to always win. It means competition.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Wheelnut………….TURN YOUR BLOODY PHONE ON!!!!!!!!hahaha

    Let him talk to himself OZ……….hehehe

  • Oz.

    HAHA, yeah BM! Let that idiot talk giberish to him self…Yeah,Yeah!

  • Wheelnut

    Its not the size of the hammer its the way you swing it.

    Paul and Steane You seem to be going on about How good the Aurion is compared to The SV6 or SS [vice versa].. Arguing as to whether or not either of them is a real performance car because its RWD as opposed to FWD; has OHC as opposed to Pushrods etc.. you also mention other fratures like weight

    If these factors are so important to you I suggest you ignore both the Aurion and SV6 and Buy an EVO as it has the best of both worlds with its AWD = the advantages of RWD and FWD Combined; produces as much power as a V8; is as light as a V6.. Not to mention has a better crash test safety rating [if that’s important to you] and can out run; out manouvre them both.

  • Watto_Cobra

    I’ve had my AU for 7 years. Hearing people contantly say the I6 4L is a guzzler has prompted me to do accurate measurements of its economy. I’ve just started so I don’t have concrete results yet.

    I know this though, I’m pretty heavy footed and I always get 580kms or more on a tank, and I’ve never put more than 62L in the tank. This suggests 10.7L/100km, but that is guesswork until I have my results.

    So far on this tank I have been driving sedately, with a good mix of city and highway driving, just to see how good it can get. I have 440kms for 1/2 tank indicated. That suggests 7.6L/100kms. Fuel gauges aren’t dead accurate and I’m guessing I have a bit under half a tank left, I would guess more like 8.5L/100kms.

    My next tank of fuel I’ll revert back to my normal driving style and I’d bet I won’t get worse than 10.7L/100kms (probably better). I’ll know soon for sure.

    I’ve never gone to the trouble to accurately measure fuel economy before, I wouldn’t know what an XR6 N/A would get. If it uses more than my AU, I doubt it would be much, especially with the ZF 6-speed.

  • MASH

    Sorry bout double post..
    Bavarian Missile: It runs unleaded. But I have have not tried on 98 though as I am still waiting for the car to arrive. In that sense I agree.. I know there are people out there who know their not getting fuel economy when getting a nice car like a XR6 or XR8 or Clubby, dont get me wrong, I don’t hate Fords or Holden’s, they are respectable as much as Toyota, Nissan, and the other companies. I just don’t see the point in driving around a 4.0 or 5.7 that uses 13.0 or more petrol, unless your towing a damn caravan or horse. If you got the hard cash, can afford it, & can buy another car anytime you want, then hell go for it. Everyone has opinion’s I simply stated mine. Who bloody knows, in 10 years time Toyota could stop making cars, if there are cars by then..Holden could become No.1 and start making MORE than just Cars. You know what would be bloody interesting? A HOLDEN or Ford motorbike :-) NEVER SEEN ONE.

  • Watto_Cobra

    I didn’t mention that, of course, I’ll know for sure when I fill up and note how many litres it has used vs. kilometers travelled.

    Also, by driving sedately, I’m using the Falcons torque to accelerate instead of dumping fuel in for power. As I said, I’m sure my WORST economy is 10.7L/100kms so I don’t know how someone can get 12.9.

  • Watto_Cobra

    Qoute=”A HOLDEN or Ford motorbike NEVER SEEN ONE.”

    That would be interesting Mash 😉 Have Toyota ever done a bike?

  • greg

    I think this Mash potato dude is a little thick, he needs to add some milk and butter up for improved consistancy, I really hate dry vegetables in my mouth…

    Sorry that was way off topic, now I think Mash Potato was or trying to talk about rivalry, OMG!!!! Ford trumps toymota on a world stage eg… the Ford Focus would eat anything offered by toymota and only if they competed in the championship like WRC, also who won the manufacturers trophy two years in a row, yep Ford. The only reason Toys win the Australian rally Championship is that grandma Corolla’s are driven by top well paid drivers throwing all thier money at it, so toymota can actually put something in that empty trophy cabinet covered with inchs of dust.

  • MASH

    Wheelnut, I agree about the Evo :-) even tho its a Mitsubishi it still bloody chews up the road. You know much about the “reliability” factor for evo’s? I’ve heard they are pretty decent from some. And some say the opposite. Whats your opinion?

  • MASH

    LOL, Mash Potato.. how many times i\’ve heard that, what are you doing here Greg when you can be a comedian mate? pffffffft ford focus.. Get out of here. I could fit it in my dick hole. I NEVER SAID TOYOTA SHITS on FORD.. READ MY POST PROPERLY OR I WILL RIGHT IN CAPS SO YOUR DUMB ASS CAN SEE. I was talking about competition, and that winning doesn\’t always mean everything. Sorry but champions don\’t last buddy..

    Watto: I wasn\’t mocking Holden or Ford about the bike dude.. I was being serious, maybe shouldn’t have put the smiley..Anyways, I have never seen a Toyota bike and would be just as interested.. what about you? Or you don’t give a rats arse?

  • Andrew M

    i think i know where you are confused.

    12.9L is the official fuel figure for the XR6 Turbo not the N/A model. i suggest once again you check the figures.
    the true figure for the falcon is 10.2L nearly 3L less than what you thought it was.
    there you go……..nothing in it.

    it shows what i said that toyota isnt that much better at getting better figures as people assume they do.

    1. Focus has better consumption than corolla and then there is still a diesel version focus that smashes it

    2. Mondeo has better consumption than Camry and once again there is still a diesel version mondeo that smashes it

    3. The ford ranger has better consumption than the Hilux

    4. the Yaris has better consumption than the Fiesta

    you see thats how i struggle to agree with the perception that toyotas will always be better on fuel than Fords. its a myth and a perception.

    if you want to see a fuel guzzler go have a look at how much a landcruiser drinks

  • Watto_Cobra

    No prob Mash, I thought it was a joke and I was having a joke too. Serious tho when I’d asked if Toyota has ever done a bike, because they do make forklifts, for all I know they may have forayed into bikes and I hadn’t heard about it.

    I’m into bikes but can’t see any of the big guns getting into bikes. Suzuki and Honda have been making bikes and cars for decades.

  • Watto_Cobra

    My brother has a 2000 model 4 cyl Hilux (2.5L??). It is terrible on fuel, he is lucky to get 500kms on a tank. He wishes he’d gotten a diesel, but he is now looking at maybe an RTV ute (maybe on gas) after seeing what my car gets.

    Because he no longer works in forestry, he no longer really needs a 4WD but still needs a tough vehicle to get our dirtbikes into the camping grounds we go to.

  • Andrew M

    mate i agree with you on the falcon in the real world.

    i can get around 15L/100k out of my “LPG” falcon when towing a trailer (worth about 1 tonne) full time with no speed zone over 60kmh (pretty much city driving).

    with out the trailer and on highway cycle i have achieved 10L. i think thats pretty good. it makes it easily cheaper to run than a small corolla or focus for eg

  • MASH


    But 10.2 still isn’t better than 9.9 I know its close.
    Question is: Can that make a difference?

    I saw the figures for the Falcon XR6, not the turbo one.
    (sorry link is abit long) tell me if thats the wrong one.
    Then the XR6-T has 12.3, not surprised considering it has a turbo.. link:

    Ok, but those Toyota’s and Ford’s you compared, same can be can be said other way around. Toyota Corolla 2007 vs Ford Focus LT 2007.. 7.4 – 8.0 – also 2.0L compared to 1.8L
    I’m not completely convinced..Maybe you can help, since your not one of these rude bogans and actually helpful.


  • Wheelnut

    I have seen both a Holden and Aan HSV bike.. Mountain Bike to be more precise.

    The Holden mountain bike was made from a light weight alloy and was made to celebrate the launch of the CV8 Monaro.. they were available in the same colours as the car

    The HSV mountain bike was made of metal with Carbon-fibre highlights it was to celebrate Holdens record 25th win at Bathurst.. The HSV bike was only available with a Red/Black chequered paintjob

    From memory it was the year Skaife won with his airdam blocked by plastic bags. Apparently the Engine/Oil temp was approx 150-180 degrees.

  • MASH

    Watto: Agreed.. I have heard about the forklifts, but never seen a motorbike. Yep, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha.. Even BMW and Mercedes made them. Curious as to why Toyota, Holden, Ford, Lamborgini, etc. have not.. Would it not be a HUGE market?

  • Andrew M

    it would have been either a 2.4L or 2.7L that your brother has depending on what model it is.

    those light trucks are terrible on fuel though. the rodeo use to be the worst, i dont know if they improved it with the recent model or not though.
    he should be lucky he didnt get the V6 version cause he would be getting only around 350-400k’s a tank then. the rodeo was around the 300k’s mark last i knew for the V6.

    its got to do with their gearing i think. they are geared sooooooooo low. if you try to take corners in them in 2nd they stand on their nose screaming.
    it is very noticable when i step out of my falcon and into one.

  • MASH
  • Watto_Cobra

    Wheelnut –

    Oh yeah, I remember that. Lowndes copped blocked airdam too. Apparently Skaife was told to just keep going with several laps left to go, and his car was only a lap from blowing up when he finished.

    Goes to show how important it is to win Bathurst when they risk a $100,000 engine.

    Andrew.M –

    15L/100kms with a trailer in city and 10L in country on LPG sounds bloody good to me. My old EB on gas, which I use for a work taxi, usually gets 15/16 unloaded. She is old and tired tho.

  • Andrew M

    im thinking toyota might have made bikes.

    perhaps someone that is better at searching the web than me better do some checks.

    im guessing that around war times especially they did

  • greg

    FIRE UP MASH!!!!, Yep Ford focus is crap, that is why it’s better, alway’s will be, that hole on your knob must be large to fit a car inside it, which goes to show where the warrior keyboard comments are coming from..

    Don’t knock the Focus here pal, my better half has one and it is fantastic and she agrees after she got rid of the last crap Astra we had to drive because of work and we did drive a Toymota Corolla for hells sake just had to call it a modern grandma hand bag, it will be the last time I step into a Toymota dealership as well, worst customer service, rude people just like Holden dealerships, they can all get stuffed lol

  • Andrew M

    mine is a dedicated model though too so you would expect better consumption to start with.
    mine is also a manual which usually helps that little bit too.

    although from a ’91-92? EB that is duel fuel and shore to be tiring with plenty of miles being an ex taxi i’d reckon 15L is pretty damn good for what it is and what its done.

  • Watto_Cobra

    Yep, 2.7L rings a bell, I’m sure that’s what it is without asking him.

    Mash –

    Not sure if it would be “huge”. Many people don’t realise there are more bike manufacturers than they think (albeit, many are small European speacialised operations). MV Augusta, ATK (yank), Gas Gas, Husaberg, Husqvarna, etc, etc.. I think it’d be a surprisingly hard market to break into.

  • Andrew M

    in my mind the focus is one car category where toyota doesnt even come close to being a better car than a ford yet they sell plenty or corollas

  • Bavarian Missile

    Hey Wheelnut………….sorry had to go on the phone M was attaching the cat and I had to get the BBQ going! I think you need to click the link thats been sent to you to confirm your registration……that will make you number 4……

    Yep those bikes can be a little expensive especially when you get into BMW stuff…….You know that AndrewMs Kangaroo put those bags in Skaffies air dam……….hahahaha

    Anyone read the latest Australian Muscle car mag?????

    A great article on A9Xs and Rod Barrett!!!

  • Watto_Cobra

    Hmmmm, my last comment is awaiting moderation. Not sure why. Maybe because it was a bit off-topic, mostly on bikes. Alborz did say he’d be stricter about off-topic conversation this year.

    Being dedicated like E-gas Falcon would help. 15L/100 in EB dual-fuel is mostly highway miles tho, to work and back. But as I said, she is very tired. But anyway, I don’t understand why people say the 4L Falcon engine is a guzzler.

    There would have to be something wrong with the mapping, or something else (like a turbo) for one in good cond. to use 2 or more litres more than an Aurion.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Try attacking the cat………not attaching…..although she was trying to attach her teeth to its tail!

  • Bavarian Missile

    Watto …….read you email…………………….!!!!!!!!!! More of you guys need incredimail cause I get a little butler up telling me I have mail!! Easy as!

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    MASH. TP. MIKKA = obsessed lovers of Toyota’s tailpipe. BIRDS OF A FEATHER! I think THE THREE (toyota) STOOGES more apt.

  • Watto_Cobra

    Thanks BM, I should read my mail more often .ie. have my mail program running while on the computer, lol.

  • Oz.

    HAHA Naughtyius Maximus! I agree.

  • Bavarian Missile

    hahaha..you and Andrew M joined at the same time….did you see!

  • Bavarian Missile

    Oz give me a hotmail address that I can send you something!

  • Bavarian Missile

    Rang Tonyn tonight at the Summernats and asked him to get loads of pics for us all! Hes back Sunday!

  • MASH

    Greg: I’ve never had that problem with any Toyota dealer, always had respect and been given respect. Besides IMO, the customer is NOT always right..Focus seems to much of chicks car mate, I laugh everytime I see a guy driving one. As to the corolla, well, might seem a granny handbad, but your getting exactly what you paid for, and nothing less.

  • TP

    Mash very good little review. There is no point arguing with these Ford fairies, THEY HAVENT EVEN DRIVEN THE AURION but they think they can comment about how it is inferior. I dont know anyone who dislikes the Aurion who have driven it and if you frequent around other forums you can see countless posts similar to yours to the effect of ‘I wasnt a Toyota person, I test drove the Aurion expecting the worst…. 2 hours later I signed the dotted line and owned one’. As usualy Andrew M will nitpick one tiny detail, fuel consumption, neglecting the overall car… such as the refinement of the cars engine, smoothness of the transmission, host of features and yes, fuel consumption (which… the fact is… the Aurion has slightly better). Did you know that a recent satellite moderated test between the local 6’s had the Aurion doing 100 in 6.9 seconds compared to the Falcon at 7.4 seconds? So slightly better fuel efficiency and half a second faster then a car with 4L displacement and this RWD platform which you TELL ME helps performance so much and that FWD isnt more efficient. 10kw more… less torque… slightly lighter… way faster. It puts all your arguments in the past (FWD v RWD, Torque etc) to shame.

  • MASH

    TP, I couldn’t agree more.. I know, it’s no point arguing with them. Aurion Zr6 is definitely worth getting if you want an all round balanced car. Performance, Luxury, etc. ONE THING I DO agree with the ford fans is that it does have a bit of a queer name (Sportivo) besides that I seriously can’t sit here and agree. I bet NONE of these guys have driven the Aurion… Why? I think its maybe that they are scared that they will actually enjoy the Aurion ZR6, and afraid they will look bad in front of their other Ford fan buddies if they buy the car. Please…Go test drive one and tell me you didn’t enjoy it at all. I bet even if they did enjoy test driving the ZR6, they would not admit to it.

  • Wheelnut

    TP You say you don’t know any one who has driven the Aurion and doesn’t like it.. then let me say “Hi”

    I’m not saying that the Aurion is inferior.. sure its quiet and well refined. but..

    Inside you got that really wide centre console with nothing in it.. it’s weird considering the car is FWD
    The seating positon was a bit offline. It felt like the seats were further inside the car [like a v8 supercar]which could explain the blind spot.

    Then there’s the engine.. Toyota claims 200Kw however; as a mechanic mate of mine told me inorder to free the 200Kw you have to go through a series of steps involving the brake foot operated and park brake..nearly as involved as BMWs i-drive system.

    The only thing I did like about it was the dash and the colour – that metallic green Yet that’s not really enough convince me to by it.. Sorry

  • Watto_Cobra

    There you go again TP, lumping everyone in the same boat and out comes the name-calling.

    I didn’t bag out the ZR6, I just disagreed with Mash about fuel economy. It just seems he quoted the XR6T figures by mistake.

    But because I’m a Ford fan pointing out a mistake, that makes me a “Ford Fairy”??? I’ve seen all the names thrown at you but I don’t think I’ve done that. Don’t over-generalise and level your accusations at everyone who prefers a particular brand of car that you don’t agree with!

    For the record I’ve said before I like the TRD styling (not so much the FWD/maechanical package). Yet you say we all hate it for no reason. Not true.

  • Andrew M

    watto is right and all i did was the same.
    i only quoted correct fuel figures for the falcon as mash was obviously confused into thinking the falcon drank 3L more than the equivalent toyota.
    please forvive us for feeling the need to provide correct information to other users of this site.

    the way fuel economy is .3L is nothing. driving style and gearing favouring highway and the load you are carrying can affect consumption more than that.

    gotta duck off to be continued………….

  • Oz.

    I’d rather be a Ford fairy than a Toyota tosser! 😛 would you?

  • MASH

    Man this is getting more lame by the minute…

  • MASH

    Quote=Then there’s the engine.. Toyota claims 200Kw however; as a mechanic mate of mine told me inorder to free the 200Kw you have to go through a series of steps involving the brake foot operated and park brake..nearly as involved as BMWs i-drive system

    Wheelnut: That just doesn’t sound right mate.. Whats the foot break got anything to do with releasing Kw’s? If you don’t mind can you explain these ‘steps’ more precisely, IF your mate explained that to you.

  • http://ACA Kevin Dedekin

    Interesting conversation chaps and i am sure you will find my feedback on the Auron Sportivo interesting.

    I’ll be honest with you Andrew, i have driven Falcons for many years and just very recently i brought myself a non-Ford (Falcon)in a very long while.

    The car i purchased was infact a lime green Aurion Sportivo ZR6 and in a short period of time i have found the car very pleasant indeed.

    I didn’t abandoned Ford because of any real reason but simply because the ZR6 model appealed to me the most. Contrary to your comment, i have found the seating comfortable and supportive with no positioning issues or blind spot that you stated. Sorry, but i am not sure what you are referring to in that context.

    Exterior styling was another point of interest with no negative comments about the dash or console as some have mentioned but above all most, the performance of the Aurion is probably the upmost convincing aspect.

    Having driven RWD cars for many long years i wondered about a FWD layout but to be honest, i have had little or next to no hassles adopting to it and the acceleration is fantastic for a family sedan.

    Andrew, maybe you should have listened to the mechanic more closely about the foot brake and park brake explanation because it you understand the system well enough, you can actually disengaged the ESP by that means with nothing to do with extracting 200/204kw’s. It is purely ESP related.

    Read some media comments, they have highlighted the issue aswell.

    Anyway, just completed my very first journey of 520km’s and believe it or not, with the air conditioning on and family of 4 packed in, managed an impressive 8.1 average on the highway.

    Andrew, i am not having a go at you but just touching on the fuel consumption topic, as a long term Falcon owner with the last one i just traded in being a BA, one of my single biggest compliants was the fact that is was actually a drinker of the juice particularly on short trips.

    You indicated above that the Mondeo is more efficent then the Camry and how true, but bare in mind that the Camry not only generates greater usable power (torque) but considering there is only a .4 ltr differance you kinda contradicted yourself by later saying that .3 ltrs is nothing.

    And may i add to the conversation that the Aurion and Kluger is more frugal then the Falcon and Territory. Actually, mentioning the Territory, that is a thirsty car by all means.

  • http://ACA Kevin Dedekin

    greg, interesting that you mention about Toyota service because if my memory serves me correct, i believe Ford has one of the worst service reputations in Australia with Holden generally not much better.

  • http://ACA Rodrega

    There ‘kinda’ is a Toyota bike because they own shares in Yamaha.

    They also hold shares in Hino, Izusu (brought from GM), Subaru (also brought from GM), Denso and a controlling percentage of Diahatsu.

    Complete Toyota established subsidaries hence 100% ownership companies are Lexus and Scion.

    As one can see, Toyota has a relatively diverse business stature outside it’s already diverse Toyota Motor Corparation empire.

  • greg

    Wrong Kev, if you previously owned one car from each manufacturer Toyleta a Holden and Ford then you have the rights to tell me Ford dealers has the worst reputation, as you should know it comes down to personal encounters..and I hear more people complaining about unsatisfactory dealings with you guessed it toy and holdwoo..

  • http://ACA Kevin Dedekin

    Greg, you said it. It comes down to personal experiance and my experiance with Ford over an extended period of Ford ownership was less then that in a short time with Toyota.

    I am not here to get into any bitching and mouning sessions as i will leave that up to the regulars.

    As i said, if my memory services me correct, i believe Ford has one of the worst reputations in the country for service politeness with Holden following not to far behind.

    Some of the most common compliants that have been directed towards Holden and Ford over the years has been their lack of attention towards fault rectification yet generally speaking off, the more reputable Japanese companies have shown greater concern.

  • Andrew M

    I think you were confusing what Wheelnut said with it coming from myself. Please check who you were referring to.

    the fuel consumption part was me though.
    i lost ya a bit when you were trying to bring the mondeo into it.
    i listed a quick few comparisons across the range of both fords and toyotas range to dispel the myth that fords are always heavier drinkers. what i did really is prove they are just as bad as each other no matter really what class you go shopping in…….hence myth busted because fords arent naturally heavier drinkers.
    even if the gap was 1 full litre a 100k more i would still say huh so what. if you are wanting a large car and over 10L .3 is nothing. If it was 3L like Mash originally thought then maybe yes, then eyeballs would pop out.

    If the reason for buying an Aurion over a Falcon is PURELY fuel consumption then perhaps you best be shopping for a smaller car……….well thats my thoughts
    Me….. well i dont want a smaller car so im happy to put up with the consumption.

    Yes falcons would/do drink a bit more in city driving particularly, but on highways when they stretch their legs they are in their own domain. hence why the official figures are are made of a combination of City/H’way.
    I’d find it odd if you were buying a Falcon for a city runabout anyway.

    I partly agree with wheelnut on the inside of the car though.
    i think the outside of the ZR6 looks great but i feel the inside lets it down a bit. my issue would be with the seating position aswell. also its something about the way the dash rolls down on the passenger side that doesnt sit well with me. but as you said it prob is something you get used to with seating position etc.
    i’d have to check it out again for a better look to comment on any blind spot issues though.

    Also Kev your Ba would have been a 4sp auto i assume?
    the ZR6 will be a 6sp. When ford implemented the 6sp Auto it was to also curb the consumption of the falcon. it did make quite a difference when they mated a box with 2 extra gears.

    you mentioned earlier that there are more important things than fuel consumption too such as engine, smoothness of transmission etc.
    well you cant really fault the ford I6 or its world class 6sp auto there either

    with service “service” (pardon the pun) i think it depends on who you go to. keep in mind the manufacturer doesnt own the dealership.
    Ive had no probs at all with my Ford service centre. the manager that used to be there use to bend over backwards to make sure i was happy (i think he picked up pretty early that if i wasnt happy i would hound him though ha ha ha ha ha ha)
    On the other hand there is a dealership near me that has both Toyota and Holden.
    i know plenty of toyota owners that go there and they reckon they are hopeless and un-cooperative trying to palm of any issues they have with their vehicles.
    i only know a couple of people who use the holden side of the same dealership and they feel the same.

    and then my brother inlaw uses a different holden dealership and he loves to tell me how good their service is

  • http://ACA Kevin Dedekin

    Andrew, don’t tell me what i already know regarding extra ratios.

    Now, having read a few posts earlier today, i must say that i never came across a comment that suggested Ford’s are always heavier drinkers. Correctly so, you named a few comparisons but i also added a few more to your list that you just happened to have left out. Basically, the list you chose to utilise was unbalanced with greater examples of thirstier Toyota’s but hopefully i managed to bring some balance back to your example.

    Regarding mash, yeap, i give you that one. A little on the extreme side.

    Now, were you need correcting my friend is your assumption of why i purchased an Aurion and your stated reason is fuel efficeancy focused. I am not sure how or why you payed sole attention on this considering all the other favourables i mentioned long before i even mentioned fuel consumption but obviously that was the only point your glacing eyes focused upon.

    Slow down a bit and read what other people are writting and not just what you want to note because it can be very distracting when trying to have a mature, non-conflicting conversation.

    You also passed comment thay on the highway is were the Falcon stretches it’s legs and having owned Falcons for many long years, what exactly are you trying to tell me that i don’t already know. Having said that, the Aurion is every bit a relaxed cruiser as any and if you have had the experiance of doing so and were genuinely unbiased then you would not be able to argue otherwise. I believe returning a 8.1 ltr averege speaks for itself.

    Talking about interior trim, dashes and what not then haa, we all have our own preferances hence why so many choices to be had these days. Me personally, i like the Aurions interior and exterior follage with no associated problems mentioned by others.

    Personally, i don’t like much about the Commodore or 380 but each person is different. Unfortunatly, you are only speaking on your own behalf on this matter and certainly not for everybody else.

    And before i leave for the night as i have work tomorrow, i agree with the fact that companies don’t own dealerships but they must obey by rules, regulations and cultural habits associated with the companies they sell for.

    We can all name favourable and not so favourable dealerships of any company and once gain, if you would have slowed down a bit instead of glancing for what catches your attention, you would note my statement is a generalisation so once gain i will say it, Ford and Holden in this nation have a reputation of not showing as much attention towards fault recifications brought to thier attention by the customer then that of some of the more reputable Japanese companies.

    If you can not appreciate that, then quite frankly you don’t have the maturity to continue any further conversation with.

  • http://ACA Kevin Dedekin

    Andrew, just a bit more mate.

    I am surprised i did not get any feedback about my correction of your foot brake, park brake statement.

    I was just interested of your thoughts on the matter.

    Another point, i am not sure of your confusion of why i introduced the Mondeo into the fuel consumption topic.

    You did actually state earlier that the Mondeo is more efficient then the Camry but then soon after passed comment that minimal differances can mean nothing and in this particular case the Mondeo and Camry are two very fine examples.

    Sorry friend but you just seem a little up and down.

  • TP

    Haha Ford camp getting grilled… good to finally see it, THE TRUTH. Wheel_Nut… every car has its faults, if those are your only issues, then you’ve just reinforced why the Aurion is a great car!!! But I must say the seating position argument is somewhat strange, Ive sat in a few cars during my life include many at various motor shows and test drove the Aurion, its a car that I instantly found a very comfortable seating position in… the distances between hands and steering wheels + feet and pedals was perfect. The dash complaint is subjective, I personally dont mind it, certainly not bad looking. Lastly the handbrake thing, as someone mentioned this process refers to disabling ESP (so its actually a POSITIVE you’ve highlighted cos I doubt many of you Ford people knew you could disable it… and seeing as though non switchable ESP was a criticism of the Aurion in the past, there goes yet another pety argument!), which doesnt release kw but from what I hear (havent done it myself, dont own an Aurion) does help accleration alittle, because the nannies dont kick in as early, so you can push it alittle more to its limits. So again this is like another positive, the Aurion does the 100 in 6.9seconds, without ESP etc on who knows how much faster it is! Hardly a convincing argument against the Aurion Wheel_Nut. Andrew.M yes I think the Falcon is a decent car, certainly car in front of its competitors… but if we compare the current market offerings the Toyota shytes all over the Falcon in terms of features. This will change with Orion. HOWEVER one thing that wont is the quality and reliability Toyota offer, I know you will not accept this as usual, but the stats I previously gave painted the pictured… 55% of Falcons have to return to the dealership within 1 year of sale.

  • TP

    Just to fix, I dont mean ahead of Aurion when I said ahead of competitors, I mean over 380 and Commodore

  • Watto_Cobra

    That’s fair enough TP. If a few cars are pretty close, with their own positives and negatives, then it’s all about personal choice.

    I’ve looked at the Aurion up close too, and quite liked it. Didn’t get to see a TRD in person, but it looks good in photos.

    I’m still planning on a new Typhoon, as long as it proves to be as good as I think it will be. Still have to wait six months to find out.

  • Watto_Cobra

    But please, enough of the “warfare” supposedly going on.

  • Andrew M

    mate perhaps you are the one that quickly passes you eye over previous comments.
    firstly you confused what wheelnut said as it coming from me, and secondly you will find that Mash did make a comment that fords are typically thirsty.
    comment on the foot brake/parkbrake……well i dont have one, i dont know anything about it so unlike some people i wont comment on something i dont know about.
    i do wonder why though people would see the need to turn ESP off though???????

    Also when i was commenting about people buying a car based purely on consumption i was referring to mash. I never singled you out did I?

    also all i was saying with the extra ratio stuff is that you would have been comparing the consumption of your previous 4sp Auto to a current 6sp toyota auto. all i did is point out that now ford has fitted the 6sp auto the consumption wont be like you were used to with the Ba. if you didnt already know extra gears mean better consumption then why were you so surprised to achieve better consumption in the Aurion?

    with the consumption table………
    i was showing the ups and downs of each manufacturers across the classes. all it proved is that each side is not better than the other AS I SAID. i wasnt trying to say the mondeo grilled the camry for consumption was I? NO
    i only quickly compared the common models so forgive me for not going through the entire range.
    i compared a large, medium, small, light car from each and then threw the hilux in because it is one of their big sellers and everyone is familiar with it.
    you can add the kluger if you want but it still doesnt change the overall picture that they are as good as each other when it comes to consumption.

    and yes i still think that minimal differences mean nothing. AS I SAID it goes both ways anyhow. some classes the minimal difference is in favour of ford in others it is in favour of toyota. so on average fords are no thirstier than toyotas.

    and that last sentence is exactlly what the whole exercise was in response to. it wasnt having a go at you because it was stated before you came along.

  • Andrew M

    mate grow up……
    stop standing behind the shoulder of other toyota fans saying at the end “we won, we won, we are grilling you ford fairies”.

    oh and to suggest the falcon doesnt even have 1 advantage over the Aurion is just plain silly and biased.

    i think Watto said it quite well so i will simply quote this bit…..
    “If a few cars are pretty close, with their own positives and negatives, then it’s all about personal choice.”

    spot on Watto, and in my opinion the Aurion and falcon are pretty close. they both have their own little advantages and disadvantages but niether with a massive lead.
    theirfore they are pretty close and it is the personal preferences where the decision lies.

    even Kev has stated that as being his reason for his new founded love in the ZR6, and not because it was light years ahead.
    the aurion doesnt exactlly shyte over the falcon for features. the only notable thing the aurion has is the extra airbags but you will find a prce difference to compensate for that.

  • The Axe

    TP, show us where this 6.9sec to 100 for the Aurion.

    Now regarding not knowing anyone that’s driven an Aurion and not being converted, I have a couple for you.
    I am fortunate enough to work for a dealer group that has Toyota and Ford.

    Now without giving out boring company structure details out, we have a4 people who drive company vehicles (replaced every 9mths) that perform a task not sales related. They can choose to drive any brand the company has a franchise of. Up until Aurion all 4 drove Falcon XR,Territory, Fairlane’s. Aurion was released so 2 elected to drive an Aurion ZR6 and SX6. The nine months went by and one is back in a Territory and the other in an XR6 Turbo. Why? Handling, grip (skinny tyres), Optitron dash display is too hard too read and those damn boot hinges.

    So there you have it. They are true a legit reasons.

    Oh and in regards to quality, why is it that Toyota with the TRD Aurion and Lexus with the IS-F have such low rev limiters for the capacity?? Because they will not last much beyond 300,000km! This may also explain why the TRD Hilux is delayed.

  • TP

    The fact is AndrewM which you simply cant hack, the Aurion is superior to the Falcon. There is no ‘but but but its not that many features’. Things like curtain airbags are massive differences… thats forgetting the quality and reliability Toyota offer and of course a better performaning engine with better fuel efficiency, yes close but as they say, no prizes for seconds, the Aurion has better efficiency. The reason why I am ‘behind the shoulder’ is because many of these arguments are not new, Im enjoying seeing this support for Toyota and above all… seeing the truth finally come out rather then what a bunch of completely biased ford supporters think re Toyota.

  • jbot

    The Axe: Not many cars do see 300,000km…

  • TP


    Its hard to use a company example to say the Aurion is inferior. A simple example of this is fuel, the Aurion for a family is a desirable choice because its more fuel efficient while offering decent power… for a person using it in their job however thats deductible to the extent of business use, so an area which your avg buyers considers important is not so to a business, thus of course they are going to prefer a petrol guzler with extra performance, cos they dont pay for it! If I was offered a Ferrari or a Corolla, I know what Id choose, all expenses paid! This links in with grip and skinny tyres… a prviate buyer wouldnt gripe over this, it helps fuel efficiency and for those who want performance, a relatively inexpensive change of rims fixes this (many examples of this in Toyota forums along with some lowering… improves the Aurions handling ALOT). Another reason why busienss exampel can be deceptive is relaibility, its one reason why people buy a Toyota… if its not your car and its going in 9 months, this isnt a consideration. On top of this, one of the people got a Territory you say, this would indicate other circumstances such as family reasons (???) not that the Aurion was a bad car, they didnt swapt to a Falcon afterall.

  • TP

    They have low rev limits for their capacity? Id say they are in line with the market in that regard. I find it funny you try to attack Toyotas quality/reliability in this regard, clutching at straws?

  • Andrew M

    i dont know how you said toyotas shyte all over fords and can sit there with out smirking.

    well in every department they do not.
    as was explained earlier both have their advantages and disadvantages, therefor the final factor will be personal preference/experience.

    and what AXE’s comments dont mean anything because you dont agree with them?
    dont forget if one employee went to a territory they could have also had a kluger fill the need if it was family reasons that pushed them that way.

    also if you call the falcon a fuel guzzler for consuming 10.2L V the aurion at 9.9L then you have to get a grip off of yourself and onto reality. if fuel consumption was the real issue they would be looking for a small diesel cause thats the only way to escape at the moment (apart from LPG).
    lets face it .3L isnt going to save the world is it?

    performance is also line ball between the 2 and lets not forget we are talking about a near 6yr old falcon so for an aging vehicle the falcon can still hold its own.

    im sure it was you that showed us that when the 2 were tested with the falcon having the 4sp auto V the 6sp of the aurion the aurion just edged ahead. then later down the track you showed us another article where they used the XR6 n/a and it of course had the 6sp auto. the result of that was the falcon edging out the aurion.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Um AndrewM you may as well be talking to that wooden object in the room with a knob on it!

    Looks like he been arguing this blog for almost 12 months now!

  • Andrew M

    Hey BM u been quiet.
    i think ive out posted you today (taht would be a first) ha ha ha

    anyway i thought i was talking to a Knob????

  • http://ACA Hilko

    Axe, 6500rpm in the TRD Aurion is not exactly low rpm and the actual stated reason why they are limited accordingly is because not only have they achieved the required power output and acceleration figures set by themselves but it is to ensure the vehicles stay within the typical reliability, dependability and durability that Toyota is o regarded for and sense Holden and Ford have an absolutely dismal track record of ensuring a reliable and dependable vehicle then i suggest you buddy of pulling your head in.

    Incase you haven’t noticed but HSV’s and FPV’s are not exactly setting the statistic charts a fire with reliability/dependability records.

    Better still… how exactly did you come up with 300 000 km or was that just yet another figured pulled from your air head with absloutely no evidance what so ever to prove otherwise.

    Why don’t you just give us some FACTS instead of personaly assumptions.

    And here is another fact for you clown about the TRD Hilux – the ‘actual ‘reason for the delay of the unit has absolutely nothing to do with the Hilux programme what so ever. Reason … because when the engine failure on the TRD Aurion accured, the vast majority of the outfits resources were re-directed at determining what had happened hence the TRD Hilux was temporarily halted while the team invested the Aurion.

    See pal, it ain’t all that hard to actually reserach some info instead of just passing absolute bull shit otherwise.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Yep……..hung over!!!!!To many wines in the pool last night

    Blame Wheelnut he got me started !

    I knew you would make use of that word!hahaha

  • TP

    Andrew.M Falcon in the Aurion site which was convincingly beaten by a Aurion to my knowledge was a 6 speed. Regardless the recent car of the year awards by I believe drive (I saw it in the newspaper) which was satellite tested showed the Aurion is half a second quicker, so the Falcon is going to have to be in excess of 220kw to top that (doubtful imo). Regardless this is getting off track, the original argument arose because your fellow Ford faries (Oz, Watto & NM) starting attacking Mash on his own unbiased review… lets keep this in mind, all the Toyota camp arguments here have been merely defending the Aurion against ridiculous claims

  • Andrew M

    for one watto never issued any insults nor bias towards Mash’s comments. i agree OZ did attack blindly a bit but NM pretty much did what i did in pointing out ford does have smaller cars that drink less and that his initial thoughts on the falcons consumption were wrong.

    please name me a few of these ridiculous claims that you have been defending???
    if anything i feel it around the other way.

    i stepped in to point out that fords arent typically thirstier.
    ^^^^^and thats an attack on toyota?

    wheelnut offered his opinion on comfort and he is just as free to offer his opinion as Mash did.
    the only thing you had cause to defend was the foot brake thing but i dont know a thing about it so i stayed out of that one.
    but even is wheelnut was confused it was hardly an attack on toyota

  • Watto_Cobra

    Hey, fair go TP. I didn’t attack mash at all, I only said my Falcon gets great economy, and Andrew.M pointed out he must have used the wrong figures (ie. XR6 vs XR6T).

    In fact Mash and I started have a joke/conversation about whether Toyota, Ford, or Holden would do a motorbike. I also said my brothers Hilux has terrible economy (petrol 2.7L).

    I went on to say I also liked the Aurion, particularly the TRD’s looks, and there you are again, calling me a Ford Fairy. I thought you were done with the insults/name-calling. Apparently not.

    So show me where I attacked MASH please?

  • Watto_Cobra

    In fact, look back up at todays posts:-
    TP at 7:58am
    TP at 8:00am
    Watto at 9:55am

    I was actually a bit agreeable with you TP. “Why?” now I wonder, when you keep dragging me down for no reason.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Your right Watto……….why the attitude to Watto TP……..I think his post are all pretty honest and without insults. How about an apology TP ?????? If anything I saw Watto agreeing with Mash in areas !

  • Andrew M

    ha ha ha you got to be kidding BM,
    an apology from TP? ha ha ha

    dont hold your breath Watto i think he owes me about 3.

    a while ago he kep posting over this site that i was a liar for quoting him on something he claimed he never said.

    well i scrolled through many postings and tracked it down and put a nice little link to display in black and white that he had.

    and im still waiting for an apology for the incorrect attact on my credibility

  • Chopstar87

    have you guys seen the article on XR6T vs TRD vs Lib ??? who won that???? Ford…. 4-5yr old car won againest the new Toyota australia top car….lol…. and the thing is that the XR6T is 12k less….lol

    a normal ford Vs a spacial vehicle?? and the normal car won…. they even stated if they picked the cars by price the Typhoon would have been in it not the XR6T as the FPV is about the same price as a TRD… but tey stated it was a waste of time as the phoon is on a whole next level….

    BF XR6 vs aurion ZR6…. no real differance in the performnace side of things,,, yes the XR6 has 10kw less but it has a truck load of torque: 383Nm @ 2500rpm to the ZR6: 336Nm @ 4700rpm… so its has better off the line grunt then the V6 Aurion… and the Ford has a better Gearbox in the ZF6 then the aurion.

  • Chopstar87

    i have been checking the power figures out for both Ford/FPV and Toyota/TRD

    XR6 190Kw @ 5250rpm / 383Nm @ 2500rpm
    ZR6 200Kw @ 6200rpm / 336Nm @ 4700rpm
    XR6T 245Kw @ 5250rpm / 480Nm @ 2000rpm
    TRD 241Kw @ 6400rpm / 400Nm @ 4000rpm (59-61k)
    Phoon 270Kw @ 5250rpm / 550nm @ 2500rpm (61k)

  • Andrew M

    another key thing you must look at is the low rev range the falcon produces power and even more so torque at.

    the torque in falcons is all there at pretty much idle revs

  • Chopstar87

    Info from Wheels
    0-100km 7.4sec
    0-400m 15.3

    0-100km 7.4
    0-400m 15.3

    same speed people…..

    i would say the XR6 gets to 60 first by a bit as more torque and earlier… then the extra 10kw would let the Toyota to catch up.

  • Andrew M

    you beat me to it.
    id found 7.5 0-100
    and 15.5 1/4mile for the aurion.

    its pretty much what you had anyway

  • http://ACA Mikka

    chops – you know what i love about Toyota in todays environment … they have now actually engineered a car that is everybit a worth while competitor to the Commodore and Falcon then ever before.

    The v6 Camry and Avalon was never gonna make an appealing alternative as such but no matter which way you look at it – the Aurion is gonna run the hard-guantlet so for once – the Australian public actually has a genuine alternative then just the tyipcal same ‘ole two.

    Haa… lets be honest with each other – i cannot think of any vehicle in the past that has stirred our local large car market more then what the Aurion has done in a very short 12 months that is has been on sale todate.

    Not only is Toyota today matching the performance figures of the American duo, but in other areas have lifted the game up and above the traditional standards while i have absolute assured confidance tha the Aurion will serve to be a better quality, more reliable and dependable competitor inconjunction of offering matching performance, safety and mod cons.

    And another valid point – Toyota Australia has even etashblished a local outfit to suop up regulat Toyota’s just like Holden and Ford have and that has never been seen before either. And the good thing about it all – TRD will only get better and stronger with time

  • Chopstar87

    one thing thou mikka… yea you had some good points there…. there is nothing wrong with a bit of comp in the market… all works out better for the buyer.

    at this stage TRD is really fighting the standard Ford/holden….not the big boys yet….

    To compete with the best of HSV and FPV they will need to lift their game!!! i would say the TRD as all round package is between ford/holden and FPV/HSV….

  • Andrew M

    wow good to see some comments without insults Mikka.
    at least you have said the truth about where toyotas Aurion lies with in the australian playing field.

    finally you have lowered your comment that toyota is running all over ford and holden. what you have said this time is fair.

    so would you say toyota aspires to be competitive with ford and holden with their Aurion?
    I would. they have seen what the falcon/commodore class is about and they want in.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Good point Andrew M………

    Geez …..no reply from the email you asked for ……….slackness!hehehe

    Tonyn back tomorrow…….yippy! Pics of the Nats!!!!!!

  • Oz.

    Hello everyone, I have been off more than ever today. I saw the first TRD in the road, it was a highway patrol cop.

  • http://ACA Mikka

    chops – also agree, TRD Australia will have to lift thier game but regardless – the TRD Aurion is a very fine first effort.

    Unfortunately, TMC HQ are tight fisted when it comes to releasing funds to an unproven project so hopefully if the TRD Aurion sells adequatly against thier own expectations, then maybe TRD Australia could enjoy a much brigher future.

    It was the same when HSV first started in Oz 20 yrs ago – thier cars never quite hit the mark but down the track of time have proven very popular. I believe our own local TRD oufit will probably follow a similar path.

    Apparently interest has been shown from aboard particularly in the US towards the TRD Aurion but Toyota has stated they will not even think about exporting the vehicles until they are satisfied within our own market first – conservative approach but haa … i kinda (i think) understand thier logic behind it all.

    And heres some other news for you all – TMC HQ has just released a ‘be all’ or ‘end all’ of it’s F1 team if results do not improve by 2010.

    Apparently Toyota is investing 500 millions dollars a year into their F1 programme and the big boys of TMC are starting to be impatient with the lack of results. So… they have just been issued with notice that they will fold the team if vast improvements are not evident within the next two seasons … oooch

    On a brighter note, they have publically stated that they are confident that thier entery in NASCAR will prove much more fruitful as soon as the 2008 season because they have just signed on the long term standing and podium experianced EX GM outfit – Gibbs Racing.

    But then again – they have said this sort of stuff before.

  • TP

    The 0-100km/h for the Aurion is 6.9seconds vs Falcon at 7.4seconds… this was SATELLITE TESTED, not going off the speedo etc which isnt as accurate. This sounds more realistic as well, the Aurion has more power, is lighter and FWD (so less power loss through drivetrain)

  • Watto_Cobra

    TP, I’m still waiting for the evidence of where I attacked Mash, or completely bagged out Aurion.

  • Andrew M

    Wow Mikka have you stopped drinking and posting at the same time?
    yet another fair and honest comment from you. well done.
    good to see you can post with out overrating toyota and shyting on ford and holden

    have you got an article where you saw these figures?
    it doesnt really make sence that the aurion would win.
    as i stated before you must also look at what rev range the power and torque is produced. in the falcon it is produced a hell of a lot earlier and at a more frequently visited range. also overall the falcon has that extra bucket of torque all from 2000ish rpm
    also i would think any power at the wheels advantage (for the FWD) would be cancelled out by the nannies trying to keep the car stable/prevent wheelspin etc

  • Watto_Cobra

    Does anyone know just how accurate GPS tracking for speed runs is. I assume it’s very accurate because Wheels used a GPS data-logger for top speed and acceleration in a Comparo between Veyron and 8 other supercars at Volkswagen’s Ehra-Lessien test track.

    The reason I ask is, last I knew, civilian GPS was only accurate to within 10meters? but the military stuff is much more accurate to a meter or less. Anyone know anything about it?

  • Wheelnut

    So; I take it that means we’ll see the Toyota F1 cars with “For Sale” signs on them in Melbourne then?

  • Wheelnut

    What the? HSV Failed to hit the mark?

    When HSV started off back in 1987; the VL Walkinshaw SS Group A [The Batmobile] it was originally going to be a limited run of just 500 cars. They sold out within 6 months. Yet demand was so great that HSV were forced to make an extra 250 odd.

    During that time HSV were in the Process of developing the next model; the VN – for which they were receiving advanced orders.. so the last 50 or so Walkies were sent to HSV dealerships with the Bodykit in boxes which they would attach before the customer took delivery.

    That may sound rather poor.. However it proves that demand for HSVs cars was greater than even they had expected.

    NOW; how many TRDs have Toyota sold so far?

  • http://ACA Mikka

    Wheelnut – i hope not but i and other Toyota fans have two more years of hope.

    Now … to be brutally honest with you all – i believe if Toyota withdraw then they are either expecting to much of themselves or have no heart to stick it out.

    I’ll explain why – the fact is… most of the established teams are long term and highly renouned competitors with such examples as Ferrari racing in F1 since the very first day.

    Honda has been involved for many years although they reverted to manufactuering engines only for years before returning thier own team while Renault finally found thier golden gloves but not after they had persisted for 20 odd years.

    Although i am a true Toyota boy at heart, i am however disheartened by some of thier motoring racing decisions.

    When the BIG T abandoned WRC, they were the reigning champions proving bulletproof for several seasons and for reasons of wanting to enter F1 competition – they abandoned Rally racing at the height of thier success … everybody should have heard of Carlos Sainz !!

    The fact is, Toyota is actually quite formidable in rally racing with our own ARC a good example and personally they should have stuck with it.

    Then they entered Champ cars for few years and then gave it up while F1 has obviuosly proven alot harder then anticipated. Personally, they should show more heart and stick it out just like Renault did before they found glory.

    Then came American Truck Racing and believe it or not – Toyota is actually quite good at it and even taking out the 2007 championship.

    They had an OK year in thier debut season of NASCAR and have confidance to do better in 2008 but the point of my statement is … i believe Toyota should decide on a few racing tournaments to persue and stick with it through rain, hail or shine. Basically, establish a recognisable culture with it because right now – admittedly they don’t have anything of a kind which is a shame really because everything else they have touched lately has turned to gold for ’em bar motor racing.

    Quite weird really if you think about it.

    And yes … this is the real Mikka

  • Andrew M

    i thought the uptake of HSV’s was pretty good aswell. i didnt know the numbers but i knew they didnt have a problem selling them.

    the same goes for demand on all performance fords and holdens. you were on a waiting list for around 6months when the XR6Turbo came out. people were buying them with out even seeing or test driving them. i expect the same will happen with the orion range where initial supply will be lower than demand.

    and yes i was curious as to how many TRD’s have been sold so far. do you know Mikka?

  • Wheelnut

    I agree Toyota are doing / have done well in the various motorsport categories in the US; UK and Europe.. WRC; BTCC and Pick-Ups etc

    And given Toyota will be pulling out of F1 in 2010
    They now have the opportunity for them to make the Aurion RWD [leave the Camry as FWD] inorder to be eligible for the V8s..

    as it could change their image – that is in the mind of both the Red & Blue Army.. not only at the track but also in the showroom.

    But that’s right Motorsport does nothing for the economy so why would they bother.

  • http://ACA Mikka

    Andrew – no i don’t and having researched info from time to time have been unable to find out.

    I can tell you what i do now though at that is the Queensland Police Service took delivery of 11 examples and at the time that the TRD Aurion example blew it’s stuffings – 5 ‘private’ customers had taken delivery with another 30 odd on order.

    I recently visited the Bundaberg TRD authorised dealership when i stayed there with my family for a fews days of ‘get away’ and the lone TRD speialised salesman said that Toyota’s aim was to sell 1 unit each month per outlet.

    Todate – there are 25 TRD outlets nationally of which will increase to 41 when the TRD Hilux hits the market.

    That is about as much as i know so hopefully it might serve as a rough guide.

    Wheelnut – don’t say Toyota will be pulling out of F1 in 2010 because people like myself are still living in hope.

  • Watto_Cobra

    Toyota pulling out of F1 in 2010, I’ll treat that as a rumor unless officially confirmed. F1 would be one of the hardest motorsports in the world to tackle, I wouldn’t expect success for years.

    Look at FPR in the V8Supercars. The first couple of years they were a joke, no speed, engines constantly blowing up, etc. Some people put high expectations on them but I didn’t. Now look at them, with Winterbottom, very near the quickest cars there, and look out in ’08, he just needs a good run.

    HRT were a joke when they first started for ages, then went on to win consecutive championships. The last few years they’ve slipped compared to HSVDT on the otherside of the team. Maybe that’s why they poached Tander.

  • Andrew M

    and the other notable thing about the couple of years it took FPV to come online with great speed is that it is also run by an experienced european motorsport company in prodrive.

    it just shows, no matter how good you are its still tough to break into a new category

  • Andrew M

    ^^^^sorry i meant Watto,

    i wonder what toyota management think about a RWD Aurion? i dont know if they would be interested in creating another platform. they seem pretty efficiency focused in trying to get as many cars out of the one platform as they can (just like the way ford and holden are heading).

    sales of the Aurion in OZ is just a drop in the ocean for them too so i’d be surprised if they saw it as a worthwhile oportunity for them

  • Duck

    I reckon they should not sell production cars if they are over a certain amount of Kw’s for a front wheel drive car. For example if the car is over 240kw it should be allowed to be FWD, it should must be made RWD or AWD, like the TRD Aurion should have been!

  • Duck

    ^^^^^ I meant it shouldnt be allowed to be FWD!

  • Oz.

    HAHA Duck!!! I made a typo on the Commodore SS review.

    Yes Watto, I won’t believe Toyota will leave F1 in 2010 untill it’s offcial. And yes FPR were a slow team when they came out, now look at them. Yeah HRT in the Craig Lowndes days & the days when Mark Skafie was winning alot, you could say they were the best team out there but 2007 season wern’t that wonderfull.

  • Wheelnut

    The RWD Aurion woudn’t necessarily have to be built by Toyoda at their Altona Plant.

    They could get TRD and Neil Bates to do the development work on it.. afterall look what they did to the Corolla inorder to compete in the ARC

    I say this because the V8 Supercars is a silouhette series where the only thing that resembles the car in the showroom is the body. So provided it looked like an Aurion
    it should be able to compete

    Besides after sinking $500m a year over the last 5 years in to F1 why not blow another couple of Mill on such a project.. I’m sure they’d love it in the US given the reaction to the G8

    Daryl McBeth built an Awesome a RWD Magna [Coupe] powered by a Hemi V8 and it cost him no more than $400;000. So if a Street Machiner form Victoria can convert a car from FWD to RWD surely a large Multi-National Car Maker can do it.?

  • http://ACA Mikka

    I agree with Andrew – Toyota won’t go down the RWD path in a normal family sedan for thier own corporate reasons.

    Having said that, now having the TRD project team onboard and the experianced that would have been achieved through the TRD Aurion project, Toyota Australia should now have the capacity to vastly improve the handling on the Camry / Aurion and if they don’t utilise that experiance during the upgrades of each model then they would be foolish at the very least.

    So basically stick with the FWD format but pay greater attention towards it’s most critised concern and then we will undoubetly have a global leading ‘family’ FWD platform manufactuered right here in Oz.

    Toyota Australia should/will have that capacity but wether they choose to employ it is another topic.

  • http://ACA Mikka

    Andrew – Neil Bates and his rally team in conjunction with TRD have modified a TRD Aurion to be used in road going events with it’s debut race at Targa Tasmania.

    It has been good that Neil Bates is getting on the TRD bandwagon here in Oz because not only is a he an experianced motorport racer but a good face to help establish some recognition for the brand.

    As you know, thier TRD Corolla is a rocket with them comfortably dominating the ARC while i believe he will be a good driver for the TRD Aurion. His understanding of the car from a drivers point of view would undoutedly better then any other.

    It will be interesting to see how they fair in Targa Tasmania and other events this year.

    So yeah … admittedly im gunning for Neil Bates and the TRD team here in Oz – still only small but haa – gotta start from somewhere.

  • Andrew M

    sorry wheelnut,
    but i feel very strongly that no other manufacturer should join V8 supercars whether they make an eligable car or not.

    the way i see it why should any other manufacturer be able to walk in on the glory and fame that ford and holden have created over many years with many a dollars to promote and formulate the best and most popular racing category in australia.

    i also reckon that if another manufacturer joined it would actually take a slide on the popularity stakes. the lesser the manufacturers, the better the category seems to be. i’d prob class the second best category as carerra cup and they have only i make.

    if they would be better with more makes then i ask the question of why no other series has enjoyed the success of V8 supercars. there are plenty of series still running that do allow pretty much any make to race but no one ever hears about them. they still have big HSV’s and FPV’s versus EVO’s, Supras, Lotus etc. A great mix but it doesnt bring the crowds

  • MASH

    Watto never insulted or offended me as far as I know TP, but please dont take it out on TP either, he was simply stating his own opinion and what he thinks. I Agree with Watto, name calling and stupid childish convo’s need to stop. Look, no matter how much you fella’s sit here and post figures people will always disagree and wont believe if they dont want to…Anyways, it seems we’re slowly steering away from the original topic.

    Honestly, I dont give a rats arse what car has more power, better fuel eco. What matters is, what I enjoy driving, what I feel is more comfortable and reliable, thats it.
    People talk about ‘fun’ missing from Toyota’s Aurion ZR6 cars.. Just because it is FWD makes it not fun? I definitely disagree.. Just a question (or poll) for everyone: Who has driven the ZR6? Just a yes or no answer. I want to get an idea thats all. Adios for now Amigo’s.

  • AW

    I think I will buy one of these over a Commodore or Falcon. Definitely a better car than either of those two.

  • Duck

    AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH See, they still do sell V6 Camarys!


    Ford Falcon XR6 Turbo is better than this sportivo thingy, mainly because RWD has superiority in acceleration, cornering, dynamics, braking and top speed….plus overall perfomance..

  • Duck

    FORD AC COBRA, is this a hard question? Would you rather a Toyota Aurion ZR6 OR a Holden SV6?


    The Holden SV6 for sure, being (RWD) and if I only had two choices… CHEERS !!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Andrew

    Gotta say the Aurion and Camry from 1997-2002 you could never see them becoming womens cars. That Aurion certainly looks masculine and the extra stuff on this one I guess just makes it a bit more upbeat and manly in a mild saught of a way. This is only the first generation of Aurion and Toyota Australia apparently must of only had limited funds and resources to create this car so I think they have done a cracking job overall. Maintaining Toyota’s established traits and adding a great engine and gearbox into the mix along with probably the most sophistication and features on a model-by-model basis it only makes me look forward to what they will cook-up for the next generation. A lexus-derived rear-drive chassis would be a very good start. The option of a Manual transmission on sports variants along with a V8 model using a lexus-derived V8 would also be worth considering.

  • max

    Toyota Aurion Sportivo with 200kw’s of POWER is just too hot to handle. One thing, I want to see this car doing is 4×4 instead of FWD because even on a dry day this car can not deliver to its wheels what its engine is promising. Too much power loss due to FWD. I wish they ll make 4WD plus a fancy turbo and Toyota will be achieving 5 seconds in about 60K range…

  • Dawm

    Hey guys just get all car seem they are cheap here…unless you want to try to buy the same cat of car in Singapore…haha cars are dirt cheap here…

  • Dawm

    Well, alternative you may change the different cars every half a year you want. So long you are not buying Ferrari, Lamborghini and ect….what a shame here in Australia, could not see anyone on the street…..maybe you can try to go to Singapore and down to town to find one…haha small country but rich..here big country but poor…more over people here are trying to act rich than us….haha very funny….still can urgue about different cars…just buy all you like …to me they are dirt cheap car….as i said try to get one in Singapore if you can..haha Poor Aussie…

  • George

    Hi, I recently bought a ZR6, was going to buy sv6 but after test driving zr6 I wanted it. power, fuel economy,quietness and it just felt better to drive.
    I am very happy with it but was just wondering if its normal for FWDs to shudder in the wet when accelerating from standing start. The front end feels a bit unstable when accelerating hard to. This is my 1st fwd so it might be normal, some input would be appreciated.
    I am a bit confused with its fuel economy to, I did a long trip with AC on and got 700km, but only got 450km last tank driving short distances, 250km difference seems to much, is it normal or should I have it looked at.
    I would appreciate input from other Aurion owners thanks.

  • geni

    George did you even test drive the new FG XR6? Its much closer to Aurion performance than the SV6. RWD and better features, and more economical to boot. Never mind.

    Yes it is perfectly normal for a FWD car to have front end shudder when taking off with any sort of intent. The minute differences in traction that each front wheel has creates small torque moments on the steering rack that change direction depending on which wheel has the most traction. This combined with a fast take-off causes the shudder you feel. It won’t damage the car, you’ll just need to manhandle the steering wheel more to keep it straight.

  • George

    Thanks Geni,
    I had a quick look at the xr6, a big improvement but they still look like a taxi.
    any idea on the huge difference in my fuel economy?

  • http://jhones_07@yahoo.org Ben

    toyota cars is thiner body it means rubish car its easy to get dent in parking street…

  • Riker

    George, if this helps, I have owned a ZR6 for over 2 years now, and I really like the car. With a mixture of city and country driving with temperature control always on, I have always averaged spot on 10L per 100 km using unleaded RON 91.

  • Maurie

    Okey Dokey I’ll admit just about any Toyota product is better than either Facon or Commodore. So too are Honda’s, Mazda’s Mitsubishi’s and Subaru. But guess what, i don’t freakin care ! I will happily go and buy a 6.2ltr V8 Commodore, yep i know it’s a dinosaur and inferior quality but i’m supporting the aussie workforce and keeping the money i pay for it here in Australia. And yep i’d even buy a base model V6 Omega over the Aurion even if the Aurion was cheaper. Now why would i do that ? Because i am sick and tired of front wheel drive transverse mounted motors that you cannot work on yourself. While your paying the toyota dealer $600 for tune up and service, i can do all that my self on any Commodore of Falcon for the price of parts $100 . So i’m $500 infront already each year and i don’t have to worry about my timing belt breaking either, in my Falcon or Commodore i have a sturdy timing chain that will never break. I don’t give a rats arse how many high tech gadgets your Toyota has, as i said i don’t freakin care !!! When Toyota make a rear wheel drive V6 with motor mounted inline(the correct position) then i may buy one, until then i will keep buying Falcons and Commodore’s. BTW i don’t care how much fuel cost’s and am certainly not a greenie. Oh what a ricer Toyota !!!

  • Tomas79

    Maurie, both the commodore and the aurion are locally made, by foreign owned companies. So your argument is idiotic!!

  • http://australiancaradvice DDG38

    Maurie – you can do just as much or just as little in self maintenance of an Aurion then you can on a Falocn or Commodore and when your warranty runs out, i can 110% gaurantee you that most Falodores will cost alot more in repair bills then most Aurions because of thier poorer quality and reliability.

    What will be your arguement when local products from Holden and Ford eventually go FWD as it will most likely happen in time ??

    Be interesting

  • http://jhones_07@yahoo.com Ben

    Yes….ford falcon looks like for taxi..Holden Commodore looks like daewoo….thats what we call HOLDENWOO Right guys…Reliability and Durability Holden is still an issue that needs to fix and Toyota aurion is Rubbish car oversteer and thinner body i dont like it…I WOULD PREFER 380 MITSUBISHI…Durable and Reliable Car..adjustable steering,talkative and chassis is fantastic guys….

  • Maurie

    You are right to an extent, however Aurion is assembled here not made here. Every time a toyata product is sold here that money goes back to japan !
    The Commodore is designed here, and built here so most of the money stays here. Yes im aware the motor’s both V6 and V8 are American !

    Ever lifted the hood on an Aurion ? Tried getting to the rear plugs have you ?
    Unless you remove the fuel injection system you cant change the rear plugs.
    This is my argument against front wheel drive, also you may want to search the web a rear wheel drive car handles better and is far safer to drive than front wheel drive.

    rear wheel drive vehicles are better balanced, get the power down more effectively and should you hit a bend to fast it’s easly corrected and you get home safe !

    Hit a bend to fast in front wheel drive and most people would do this, theye’d lift off the power…wrong move ! Do that and you have a nasty accident.

  • Maurie

    Part 2.
    Think about all the work the front end and tyres have to do on a front wheel drive car.

    You wear out tyres quicker then rear wheel drive, you put more strain on cv joints suspension etc,any Falcon or Commodore is still and will always remain cheaper to repair if it be now or in ten years.

    This is because they don’t have trans axle’s and timing belts, quad cams etc. And your mechanic can easily get to any side of the motor to work on, unlike a front wheel drive vehicle.

    Should Ford and Holden switch to front wheel drive for Falcon and Commodore, then i won’t be buying new…i will continue to buy pre owned rear wheel drive vehicle’s !

    And finally, the only reason they make front wheel drive is cos they are cheaper to make, and what do i drive at present you’d think a Commodore right ? Well you’d be wrong
    i drive a Verada ! Yep that’s right a front wheel drive ricer, and i can’t wait to get rid of it and get me a V8 Commodore again !

  • Andrew

    I have a Toyota as a first car and through my many driving experiences in it have saught of developed a quasi-loyalty to Toyota and think that even if I respected and liked another car when it came to buy I would probably get another Toyota (similar to how Ford/Holden people feel I guess). I gotta say however, as much as I love the idea of the Aurion, Ford seemed to of done the best with their base 6-cyl engine. Now with the official figure of 9.9L/100km and 236co2/km and with 391Nm@3250rpm and 4.0L it is in a big sense superior even to the great 3.5L Toyota engine. Of course you need to option the 6 speed auto for this and thats another $2,000 but well worth it I guess. I also agree mostly with some comments that the Sportivo Aurion is very light in its sportiness, its mostly just dressing up. With the Falcons and Commodores this can work because the chassis is more suited to these applications therefore making them proper every-day sports sedans with the dressing up. I suspect the suspension and light chassis tuning on the Aurion would merely highten it up to XT/Omega handling standards. With the reports I have read I could call a reasonable conclusion that the FG Falcon is the best Australian full-size sedan now followed with a bit of the gap by the Aurion then quite a close gap by the VE (its drivetrain largely lets it down, especially in Omega form). Toyota with the next update of the Aurion seriously need to consider perhaps AWD to compliment the Front-drive chassis (if another bigger engine or blown version comes out). Finally, when is there a Aurion update coming? Its going on 3 years now and not a single update.

  • bigstef

    There is a reason toyota is leading all other car companys they build high quality products that the majority of consumers want. I wanted a car that offers good safety features, good fuel consumption, a car that will hold its value better and plenty of power, as a bonus it also has fixed price dealer servicing up to 60000km $130. With the base model ATX I got all of this without having to buy an SS or XR6 doesnt seem “boring” to me just common sense.

  • Johnno

    People, toyota are the crappiest cars I have driven.
    Sure they are reliable and built better but, drive, handle and brake like sh**.
    THe new VE commodore, is more refined, handles superbly and has a fantastic IRS system that gets all that power to the ground without a fuss. they can be driven at the limits and you have total control.
    As for fuel economy, during normal driving you will not see past 15 litres in the city.
    Any front wheel drive car is rubbish and cannot be driven hard. The only people who would get a toyota are ones who are tightarses on fuel, or who have no taste in cars and only look at reliabilty and build quality and fuel consumption.
    Even though the toyota is 70kw less than the VE SS, the SS destroys it by a longshot, off the line, or top end speed. thats 200kw as toyota say is only there in ideal conditions as forced induction creates a lot of heat and on a warmer day, you will have considerably less.
    What people don’t want to to admit is, that the HSV engines are race engines tuned for the road and being in the corvette’s they are quick.
    they can be thrashed time and time again and they won’t have any issues.

    • http://SsangYong James Cortez

      To Johnno on your comment August 24, 2009 at 1:09 AM.

      your statement “Even though the toyota is 70kw less than the VE SS, the SS destroys it by a longshot, off the line” is downright St***d. How can you compare as SS with 6 litre engine against a 3.5 litre engine. It’s like comparing a welterweight to a heavyweight. NO matter how good Sugar Ray Leonard (welterweight) was it would have been impossible for him to beat a so so heavyweight say Earnie Shaver.

      Use your brain next time before posting a blog!

  • jack

    these little high revving 3.5L bees have problems overtaking old boxed up Falcons, yet how on earth can you compare them to anything from an AUIII XR6 to a BA-BF XT or perhaps a new FG XT?

    Aurion is not even 1/10th of 1s quicker on take off from any 4.0L Falcon from BAt to BF N/A 4.0L, but give a Falcon a chance say 5km/h roll start , the Falcon will pull away and displace itself some 2-3 car lengths away from any V6 Aurion and only lag 1 car length behind the TRD variant! , we are talking a 4 speed Falcon XT BA or BF versus a 6 speed short geared high revving torque lacking V6, overrated V6 load of rubbish! crap piece of machinery.
    Size does matters.

    not to mention my BF XR6 Turbo?

    not bad for a so called TAXI?

  • Sean

    Just a question. Is the 0-100km (7.42sec) rough becuase i tried my zr6 out and it does 6.5

    • Al Juraj

      6.5 is quite realistic. The US Camry V6, essentially the same car, did 60 mph in just 5.8, so 100 kph is about .3 or .4 more. I’m not sure if they get better power than us, but yeah this car is bloody quick. It’s quite interesting I haven’t seen a hoon in it.

      • Sean

        Thanks for clearing that up mate. It’s too uncool FWD for “HOONS”

  • laura

    what sort of a car is a car that has 336Nm at 4700rpm and 200kW at 6400rpm where the speed limit is only 60km/h?

    what is the point in that in real life?

    some would claim “it makes 90% of its 336Nm from idle” , sure , but what ever it makes it certainly makes LESS than a stock Standard EF-EL-AU and BA-BF-FG and when it comes to power, vehicles that usually peak at such high rpm usually and almost never have no where near 40kW at just 1500rpm

    so technically , what is the use of having Toyota Aurion, where when you’re cruising at 60km/h or 80 or 110, you can not access the torque and power there and then

    it needs to downshift from 6th to 3rd or 4th to get the power.

    it is really crazy to drive on 290Nm of torque at 1500rpm when you can just buy a cheap BA XT and get 365Nm at just 1500rpm holding strong to 2000 then hitting its peak of 380+ Nm at 3250rpm , while its peak power of close to 190kW is at just 5000rpm .

    Ford rules.

    • Dave

      “Ford rules.”

      The taxi ranks maybe. Drive a BA, then one of these. Cheese and chalk.

  • laura

    if you were to mount Aurion’s V6 engine to a PBR 4 speed auto gearbox with gear ratios of 2.39, 1.45, 1.00 and final of 0.68 coupled to a final drive 3.23:1, the car would struggle to move and its 0-100km/h times would be anywhere between 10 and 11 seconds, not to mention a quarter mile of at least 17s.

    totally shameful.

    mount a Barra182/190 engine on its 6 speed close ration gearbox and 3.62:1 diff and the car would do 5.8s 0-100km/h and 14s flat 400m spring.

    that is what i am talking about, that is exactly what i am talking about.

  • laura

    why aren’t they using an Aurion V6 in fleets and taxies?

    because Aurion’s are too expensive, they break down when under such abuse in taxi services and police services.

    they are not cars designed for such use, the longest lasting aurion under taxi abuse is 50000km, Falcon = 1 million km, commodore 150000km.

    think clearer people, think clearer.

    a front wheel drive car is never a good car, remember that.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1328049168 Brodie Ireland

      open your eyes the highway patrol cars are aurion’s, you need to get your facts right before you say stuff and i know people with aurions who have done more then 100000km

  • Jeff

    I test drove a few cars before buying just recently. Commodore [rubbish], Ford G6 [nice car], new Liberty [nice but ugly], Mazda 6 [excellent].

    We settled on an Aurion. Good value, plenty of kit, well finished, and that syrupy power train is really in a different class to the others. A middle class Lexus indeed. An AWD version would be nice…

  • dave

    and you just made a big mistake for buying that inflated balloon of a car the AURION piece of plastic.

    You should have considered the fact that its 200kW are unusable at high 6400rpm, and that this car is front wheel drive, and that its 6 speed close ratio gearbox masks its complete lack of torque from its poor 336Nm of torque at relatively high 4700rpm.

    This car has problems with 1st 3 speeds in its 6 speed auto, it makes noises in the gearbox, when its cold and when heating is turned on crackling noise in the dash.

    Its incomplete , it just looks different to Falcon BA-BF-FG different class of course.

    Still does not beat the fact that Ford Falcon BA/BF 190kW + 383Nm = a total of 573 total engine power/torque points

    versus this overrated car including base AT-X model that only give 200kW + 336Nm which is quite poor at 536 versus Fords total of 573.

    And the Ford Falcon BF XT costs now days under $10000 versus this crap that costs still just under $20000.

    Falcon is a better choice.

    Rear wheel drive, loads of torque, decent power where you need it, at lower RPM rather ultra high 6400rpm, Torque for days.

    Driving a Falcon BA/BF/FG at 60km/h you’re riding on over 360Nm of torque at that speed, Aurion? just under 290Nm.

    Plus its front wheel drive = poor combination that is only saved by its close gearing that barely manage to multiply torque and force the engine to down shift hence work harder than what a Commodore or a FALCON would do.

    If a Falcon cruises around at 1500-2000rpm , this thing would need to work at 3500 to match Falcons driveability and DNA.

    Part throttle the Falcon and do a run start next to Aurion and Falcon BA-BF-FG in either 4 speed , 5 or 6 speed would simply walk all over it.


  • dave

    these are the facts, objective realistic facts.

    what they don’t advertise on propaganda driven TV is the TORQUE, they always shamefully hide that
    they never talk about at what RPM is the power achieved, they never mention TORQUE.
    even though power and torque are directly proportional

    Ford Falcon’s BA’s and BF’s 383Nm and 190kW would be as equal as if Aurion made 225kW and 360Nm.
    And we know that Aurion will never make that, barely makes it when its supercharged, according to some de-tuned, but not de-tuned, in fact struggling to reach 241kW/400Nm before it catches fire and blows its reliability being a front wheel drive overheating piece of crap with no space in the engine bay for air circulation or proper ventilation hence the limited power out put and torque figures.

    Go Ford, Ford for ever!

    Ford is for the real driver, Falcon BA makes 345Nm of torque at just 1000rpm, what does Aurion make? 250Nm? lmao

    Aurion for a no driver;)

  • TRD241

    Dave you’re a bit of clown who is the usual ill informed Ford driver. The Standard 2GR-FE tune of 200kw 336nm or 204kw and 343Nm on Premium fuel were more of a match for any of the N/A Barra sixes including the FG variant… A 225kw 360Nm version would easily laugh at the falcon six. Also for your information there is several other variants of the Lexus sourced 2GR-FE power plant one of which is used widely by Lexus at the moment and powers the soon to be released IS350 which in Australian trims produces 227kw and 370Nm but in other countries makes 232kw and 377Nm and given this engine is a few years old in design now its impressive that it still produces better figures than Fords bigger newer 3.7 Duratec V6.. So they have years to catch up and yet still behind… nice work top job….

    As for your comments RE the TRD vehicle this truly shows you really have no idea about the car your bagging out.. In testing the TRD 2GR-FXE engine was easily making over 265kw! But the call came from Japan that there would be no All wheel drive program so power figures had to drop back a bit. Once we at TRD set our goals at a refined 240kw package we then looked at the new S/C from Eaton which was the one the production car ran with. The Eaton Roots type 4 Lobe TVS (Twin Vortices System) for your information being a 4 lobe design with a full 160 degree of twist makes for a highly efficient unit which gives you far more power with less heat, noise and Supercharger whine. Using the 4 Lobe TVS S/C meant we was able to exceed the 240kw benchmark without having to use messy Intercoolers but for your information in the early stages of the Supercharger program when the 3 Lobe M90 Blower unit was been tested they did indeed find a place and actually fitted an Intercooler, admittedly it was a tight squeeze but it did fit but it was great that the TVS didn’t require one to make the benchmark power figures.

    Also you say that falcon is making a million billion Nm at 1000rpm? Last time i drove any car fast you tend to drive in the 4000rpm to redline area so leaving your comment quite redundant really… Also would like to mention Aurion’s top end is far superior in every single way…

    • nick

      225kw with a sticking accelerator would be damn scary…

  • TRD241

    Dave, Also this comment here:

    “Part throttle the Falcon and do a run start next to Aurion and Falcon BA-BF-FG in either 4 speed , 5 or 6 speed would simply walk all over it.”

    This couldn’t be further from the truth. In testing by Wheels and motor mags the Aurion has 2 or 3 times reached 100 on 6.8 secs and 400m in 14.8 on the road. The very latest FG couldn’t even match that on a grippy slightly down hill track when it was last tested against the SIDI SV6. Also last time the Prodigy (with crap Skinny tyres) was tested against Berlina and falcon in the rolling acceleration from 80-120 the Aurion completed it in 4.1 seconds where as the falcon was .01 off 5sec so once again clearly the Aurion’s Superior power train package shines once more and does it without sounding like it’s about to explode.. Like i said your comment are making you look quite silly really.

    • XR6

      The Aurion is certainly faster than the Falcon and Commodore (most cars these days are faster than a Commodore with a 4 speed trans!). However, Im not too sure how many times in the real world I am needing to go from 0-100km/h. In fact, on most roads, that will attract a fine. So in the real world of 0-60km/h, 0-70km/h and 0-80km/h the Falcon offers superior acceleration with its 400Nm (with 98 RON) than the Aurion does. Ive driven both. The Aurion has a superior engine and transmission, much smoother. But it doesnt change the fact that its an engine that needs to be revved to get its performance while the Falcon is an engine that is at home well below 4000RPM. It has much more useable power/torque. The Falcon is also a much more balance vehicle in terms of handling. At the end of the day they are both line ball in that they both have adv and disadv which will appeal to different buyers. As far as Im concerned the Commodore is not even in the same league these days particularly in base model guise.

  • TRD241

    Nick: You must of missed the bit where the Australian Produced and exported GSV40 Aurion and ACV40 Camry/AHV40 HSD Camry ARE NOT affected by the recall currently happening in the US as parts are sourced locally or in this particular situation the Accelerator pedal assemble comes from DESNO in Japan. So there are no sticky pedal issues with any Toyota product in Australia/ New Zealand either built here or imported.

  • Paul . W

    I have had a SS VN Commodore , an AU TE50 , then i updated to a BA Xr8 and this wednesday will be picking up my brand spanking new Aurion SX6 .
    Now one thing is for sure … come time to sell my car for my next update i will be getting alot more for my second hand Toyota then i would a Holden or a Ford …

    • fourl6

      your AU TE50 would be worth more than the BA… not sure what point im making… maybe that you cant really predict resale value…?

  • Romes22

    Ok there have been alot of debate about Aurions with 200KW being slow but I myself own a Aurion ZR6 and have raced plenty of cars and embarrassed them all, I have raced: All were 1/4 or more:

    BA XR6 Turbo,
    Supercharged V6 Monaro,
    BF Ford XR6,
    Modified Subaru WRX with 14psi, FMI, CAI, Exhaust
    V8 Soarer
    V8 Statesman

    Are just a few to name and i have bet them all, so the Aurion does very well, and i manage to get my stock Aurion 0-100kmh in 6.2sec, now that i have an induction it should be a little better.. So what im trying to say is that yes it may be a TOYOTA but it sure is a wolf in sheeps skin.

  • rick

    the stock standard aurion 3.5L has a nice top end above 6000rpm, but it lasts for a short time to approx 6800rpm.

    6800rpm is never usable, never really reachable or reliable level to be at.

    a stock Standard EF/EL/AU/BA/BF/FG 4.0L Falcon with either 4 speed, 5 or 6 speed ZF will always appear to be more relaxed on the road, smoother, quieter in some cases and generally “overall” quieter and obviously balanced engines in their operation, engine vibration, frequency and nature.

    the stock Falcon BA for example is a much stronger “STRONGER” car to drive at 40, 50, 60, 80 and 100km/h.

    It makes a lot “A LOT MORE” torque than any V6 engine on the market today on the planet , that is FALCON BA-BF-FG naturally aspirated engined Falcons make more torque!!!!

    in the usable engine RPM range.

    So , while you’re cruising in 3rd in a four cog auto BA you’re running at little over 90kw and over 360Nm of torque doing just 60km/h at 1600rpm.

    What does Aurion run at? 40kW and 280Nm? in 4th at 60km/h?

    seriously man, if there was no high tech noisy and click sound making 6 speed in Aurion that car would not even more of the mark if it was to be coupled with a 4 speed Falcon auto.

    2.39, 1.45, 1.00 and 0.68 gearing on a 3.08, 3.23 and even with 3.73 gearing would simply be just too tall for Aurion’s poor, inferior power/torque making 3.5L engine

    in fact its a 3.4L , 3456cc, not like 3491cc or 3475cc to qualify as a 3.5L

    the Aurion makes 200kW on RON98 at 6400rpm which is just way too high

    336Nm at 4700rpm which is just too high.

    all this works only with a complete package and that is the 6 speed it comes with with somewhat close 3.62 final drive.

    A ratio that when installed on a stock standard BA-BF XT on a 4 speed auto would easily give 6.5s 0-100km/h.

    think about it, a Falcon I6 engine wins by default.

    Who reves their cars above 5000rpm to get the power? a stock standard ED 4.0 makes more power and torque than Aurion V6 up to 4500rpm then after than Aurion eats it.

    But a BA makes more power and torque up to 5800rpm and manages to beat Aurion easily, generally starts to really pull away at speeds 120-200km/h, but that again constitutes speeding, but people have done it and Falcons have won, BA-BF-FG.

  • rick

    Falcon BA XT on RON91
    182kW at 5000rpm
    380Nm at 3250rpm

    Falcon BA XT on RON98
    ~192kW at 5000rpm
    400Nm at 3250rpm

    Falcon BF XT “same as above” because BA-BF base line engines are in fact identical, a different dyno was used to estimate new power/torque figures for BF when it was advertised, hence the reason of increased power/torque figures that were at 190kW/383Nm, where in fact Barra182 was making 190kW/383Nm at all times since 2002-2005.

    Toyota Aurion on RON98

    200kW at 6400rpm
    336Nm at 4700tpm

    add 182kW + 380Nm and you get 562 points in total for the BA XT 4.0L N/A

    add 200kW and 336 Nm and you get 536 points for Aurion V6

    so if you think a little clearer

    a Falcon BA XT 4.0L wins by 26 units of “power” not as in kW or Hp, but units of engine ability to create motion, not as in Nm or lb-ft as Torque the twisting force, but a total output.

    Falcon XT BA on RON98

    192kW + 400 and you get 592 points in total, that is 56 in total.

    FG XT Falcon 208kW on RON98 and 420Nm , thanks to new intake manifold, and new knock sensor and you get 628 points.

    What on earth is wrong lol with some people not understanding this concept?

  • cas





    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1328049168 Brodie Ireland

      Your boyfriend obviously CAN NOT drive very well if your dad’s berlina with only 25kw more power beats him by 4-5 car lengths

      • Blokie

        you kidding right? she is talking about a Holden Commodore based Berlina with 225Kw 5.7L v8 ! i think it would beat a Toyota v6 !

        not sure if the aurion weighs more than a commodore though … ?

  • Blokie

    looks ok.
    i wouldnt mind a Wagon in one though.

    the V6 is a nice motor. Rented the 4cyl camry a while back and that was pretty woeful

  • Aurion Driver

    I bought an SX6 Aurion 4 years ago, and after driving Commodores for 12 years (3 different models) I can’t say I wouldn’t go back to one.

    Except for servicing it hasn’t missed a beat and I have not had it in the mechanics for any work. It has all the power and speed I need and being in the country it eats up the kilometres with little effort, and fuel. It has all the safety features and handles just fine. FWD cars today are far more advanced than a few years ago thanks to the electronic control programs. I am tall (6’5″) and can comfortably sit in the front or rear.

    I agree with Blokie a wagon (all my Commodores were wagons, starting with the VN) would be good but with the trend of wagons (ie based on sedans) today going towards a smaller boot it probably wouldn’t be very practical.

    The Aurion ticks all the boxes for my needs and it would take a big improvement in Holden quality and reliability for me to return.

  • Suzie

    We have just towed a caravan with the Aurion AT-X fitted with Hayman Reese towing gear from Tweed Heads to Darwin sitting on around 100klm and the car went fantastic so anyone considering towing with this vehicle go for it. Our caravan is a 17ft 10ins Jayco weighing loaded at around 1.5 tonne.