2008 Holden Epica First Steer
8 Aug, 2008
263 Comments 
2008 Holden Epica – First Steer
“From the rear, it looks positively Saab-ish. Holden has got its act together with this revised Epica, the 2.0 litre turbo diesel being an especially sweet drive”
- Anthony Crawford
Just over a year ago, General Motors Holden launched the Epica nameplate as a mid-size family sedan providing a value for money option in a growing category.
But the punters didn’t seem to warm to it, nor did many of Australia’s motoring writers. Subsequent sales of the car were anything but spectacular.
It’s true the 2007 Epica was not an attractive car. Not at all. The same cannot be said for the revised 2008 model car. From the rear, punters might even think it’s a new Saab 9-5, especially in Pearl White Metallic and Granada Black Metallic (two of seven exterior colours on offer). While I’m still not sold on the front styling, it’s more than a subtle improvement on the 2007 car.
After a decent steer in the revised car my first impressions are positive. As long as the marketing girls and boys at Fisherman’s Bend spend a few dollars on getting the name out there (and make no mistake, they are spending big) this car, especially the diesel, should find more than a few buyers here in Australia.
Nobody likes high fuel prices. They can have a catastrophic affect on your day-to-day quality of life. Essentially, you end up with less money in your pocket, and that’s never a good thing.
Filling up a large car petrol powered car or SUV these days, can be scary. With a 100-litre capacity tank, you will spend close to $7000 per year on fuel alone. That’s for those lucky enough to need only one car.
The mid size car segment will attract buyers from two markets, Holden says. Those wanting more room than in a small car, and those looking to save more than a few bucks, by coming down from a large car. Nothing wrong with that logic I say.
But midsize cars generally use a lot more fuel than your average small car, usually because of additional power and weight.
That’s where the modern day common rail turbo diesel comes to the rescue. They offer considerably more ‘go’ from low down in the rev range and allows you to travel a greater distance on one tank of fuel. This is especially true of vehicles in the mid to large size segments.
While Holden will continue to offer a refined in-line six-cylinder petrol engine, it’s all about the 2.0 litre common rail turbo diesel powered car. That is what will make this car a success story.
It’s both an efficient and smooth revving engine, which develops 110kW at 4000rpm and a strong 320Nm of torque at 2000rpm. From the relatively short time behind the wheel of the car I was pleasantly surprised just how smooth and quiet the car was.
At 110km/h on a Melbourne highway, the engine was ticking over at around 1600 rpm, or barely working. Mid range acceleration is constant and you can feel the torque even in sixth gear.
Off the mark acceleration won’t set the world on fire but employing a variable geometry turbocharger, you could never call it slow either. The steering set up is also nicely weighted, even at dead centre, so you feel well connected to the road.
What I keep coming back to with the Epica is how refined the power delivery is. There’s very little engine vibration through the cabin, which makes this car, a particularly pleasant drive.
It’s also a lot quieter than many of the 2.0-litre diesel passenger cars I have driven this year. This is a well-sorted engine in a well-sorted chassis.
Not only that. Standard equipment across the range is a six-speed automatic transmission with what Holden calls Active Select, allowing for sequential style shifts, up and down the ratios. Holden engineers are quoting a 14 percent improvement in fuel economy at a constant cruise control style speed.
Twice, I looked at the fuel consumption readout while travelling at 110km/h and was more than surprised to see 6L/100km for more than a few minutes. Testament to diesel power!
I’ll also have to praise the general ergonomics inside the Epica. Specifically, the firm but supportive seats in the top spec CDXi we were driving, were equally as comfortable as those in some of the more expensive European car brands. Very well bolstered all round, without being too narrow for the larger folk.
Instrumentation and switchgear is intuitive and easy to master. It’s also well laid out and attractive. There is a lot of plastic on the centre stack but just enough metal look accents throughout the interior, to make things interesting rather than dull.
Medium size cars are becoming larger. They must be. There’s an awful lot of cabin space inside the Epica, including that area between driver and front passenger. It almost feels like a large car. There’s also plenty of room for the rear passengers too and the boot is huge, with just on 480 litres of load space. Good size aperture too with the boot lid held open by gas struts.
Creature comforts across the range include: Steering wheel mounted audio and cruise controls, Auto on headlights, MP3 connectivity with a 6-speaker audio system with single CD in the CDX trim and an 8-speaker unit in the CDXi along with the usual array of electric windows and mirrors.
Epica has upped the ante in the safety department in this segment, with six airbags (including the all important curtain airbags) and Electronic Stability Control (ESC).
Rear Park Assist, which must be considered a mandatory safety feature these days, is fitted (audible version only) as standard on the CDXi spec cars only.
From 29,990 for the 2.0-litre diesel, with six speed auto, six airbags, Electronic Stability Control, a host of creature comforts, tonnes of space and much improved European-like styling, the Epica CDX diesel is the value for money pick.
That said, for just $2000 more, you could upgrade to the CDXi 2.0 diesel and pick up 17-inch alloys (rather than 16-inch alloys), Rear Park Assist and the 8-speaker 6 CD changer, which also represents good buying.
2008 Epica range Recommended Retail Pricing
• Epica CDX 2.5-litre petrol (6 speed auto) from $27,990
• Epica CDX 2.0-litre diesel (6 speed auto) from $29,990
• Epica CDXi 2.5-litre petrol (6 speed auto) from $30,990
• Epica CDXi 2.0-litre diesel (6 speed auto) from 32, 990
• Epica CDXi Optional leather pack $2000
Location: Home / Holden, Behind the Wheel / ...
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(13 votes, average: 2.54 out of 5)
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August 8th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Kinda sounds like a marketing blurb from Holden, you don’t mention once whats its like to drive. If you cut the review down to its core parts, its “cheap, economic, lots of features”. Will we get more of an idea what the cars like with the full review?
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August 8th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Major improvement and well done Holden! A nice looker now! Inside is real well laid out and smart as!
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August 8th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Genie, I can only assume you have only glanced at this first steer. I talk about how the car drives quite a lot, in fact.
I was only in the car a couple of hours so yes, Car Advice will most certainly be road testing the car over a week as soon as possible.
Drive safe
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August 8th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
Agree with your comments NM.
The diesel sounds like a very good buy.
One of the best lookers in this class and price point.
A diesel with all the fruit and euro style for the price of a base Camry.
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August 8th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
I think Holden definitely paid for that story. If I wanted to read pro-Holden car reviews I would purchase Wheels Magazine. No one in their right mind would recommend the Epica over the Mazda6 or a Mondeo. I notice that the Mazda6 now starts @ 27,990. Surely that would have to be a much better buy.
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August 8th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
It’s starting to look real. The 17″ wheels are a must over the dainty sixteeners.
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August 8th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Cool, thanks anthony. I have only seen this first steer, but I have read reviews (I haven’t driven obviously, so I’m aware the reviews could be wrong) that painted the epica in not that great a light. So I was just wondering if the new 08 model is just a reskin and feature upgrade or whether the core driving dynamics have been tightened up at all.
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August 8th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
jobe, I think whilst the Mondeo is most likely the better car (the mondeo diesel is more economical too by ADR 81 standards, for what good that is), the mondeo diesel is $37990 whereas the epica is $30000, so thats a few difference, and shows the two cars are aimed at different spectrums of the market.
Having said that, unless the review paints it as amazing, I’d make the mondeo, even if I had to miss a meal a day to save the extra $5k.
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August 8th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
How much is an equal spec Mazda6 or Mondeo Diesel?
40k min?
IMO the Mazda 6 styling has become pretty boring i.e not much diff to the old one.
Mondeo only looks good in the hatch IMO.
I await the full review although your initial review is encouraging.
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August 8th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Jobe, where do I compare the Epica diesel to a Mazda 6 4cyl petrol? Listen to Genie, he seems to have a much better idea of the market than your good self. I’ve driven the Mondeo and yes its a very nice package. That said, while the Mondeo has more grunt, its not as quiet or as smooth as the powertrain in the Epica.
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August 8th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
The face lift and diesel definitely make this car more attractive in this segment than a Camry……Shame there’s no wagon though! I’ll keep saving for the Mondeo wagon diesel.
Holden/woo good try with this one, thanks but no thanks!
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August 8th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
Good review Anthony. Glad to see Holden taking the diesel thing seriously. I’m presuming that 2.0CDTI engine is the same as the European engine used in the Vectra/Astra/Saab etc etc. I regularly drive the same engined cars on a on a 800km trip and easily get 5.6’s cruising at 130k’s. Indeed the lst time the car (hired) had only done 1000km on the ODO and managed a creditably 5.7litres/100 not even broken in.
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August 8th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Anthony, it’s obviously easy to remain positive about a very ordinary car when your wallet is filled with Holden money.
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August 8th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
When you peel the Holden badges off, it still represents a Korean made Daewoo and in the real world that would be enough not to buy the Epica, Ford Mondeo outclass this by a big margin, it didn’t win Australia’s Medium size car last year for nothing, Epica struggle to receive any major vote where it counts > diesel or no diesel.
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August 8th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
Bit of a “feel good” review, but allegations of piad off bias are just stupid - please go away children.
Cheap and loaded with goodies - typical of what we have come to expect from the Koreans.
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August 8th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
In terms of looks… I like the front but that rear strip at the back which wasnt there in the 2007 model…UGLY
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August 8th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
That dash definately doesn’t look like a quality part.
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August 8th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
It’s a worthwhile update for the Epica although with current diesel to 91 RON ULP price disparity I don’t think you’ll be saving much money by choosing the diesel over the petrol model unless you do loads of highway driving. I need a wagon otherwise this would be on my new car radar.
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August 8th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Hey Anthony, I was on the drive with you and I think you are spot on.
One of the engineers asked what I thought and I summed it up thus: \”Inoffensive- and I don\’t mean that as a criticism…\”
With the Captiva diesel selling at 50+% overall, I think the Epica will manage the same.
Though at $32k, that\’s more than what I am about to pay for a second hand ML270 diesel…
Cheers
Tom
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August 8th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Gotta agree with TP with rear strip…..but it grows heaps and looks fine when gels with rest of car. Gotta say AC Cobra…..your comments are tad old as even Ford have done the Korean trick (but that was ok…..hmmmm)! Holden has hot nail on head with this car and are to be congratulated!
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August 8th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
Starting to look like an Insignia.
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August 8th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
This review is marketing. A mid-life refresh and the dog of the pack has now become impressive? The results are inconsistent with every review on the EPIC’rap there is.
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August 8th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
well it looks like holden have done a good job here. Here is someone who has actually driven the car saying “hey this isn’t a bad deal here” and yet the perpetual holden haters that appear to litter this site are still trotting out the predictable and tired “its a daewoo, cheap crap low quality blah blah” despite the fact the article clearly says its a reasonable thing.
Oh well, i guess caradvice must have been paid, thats why they give such favourable reviews to ford, holden’s cheif enemy.. yep definetly paid. You blokes are just one eyed badge babies, simple as that
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August 8th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Chippy - actually its not mate, wheels rated the epica better then the toyota camry in a comparison. It’s only your pre-conceived perceptions making you think that.
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August 8th, 2008 at 11:59 pm
also those trying to (unfairly) compare it to the mondeo and mazda 6, keep in mind that the latest 6 currently doesn’t have a diesel, and the diesel mondeo is nearly 38k, not 30k. Perspective fellahs!
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August 9th, 2008 at 12:21 am
Hey look they re-made the VL commodore with suburu headlights.
More fuel for the fire girls :)
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August 9th, 2008 at 1:51 am
Come on Athony, you have got to stop kiding yourself, if you are trying to tell us that a facelift to this car has made it a Saab, you must be a bigger fool than I thought. You keep saying Saab, mate any Saab own and Saab themselves will hate you for talking about this buck of SH.. as being a Saab, just because you think it looks like a Saab.. it does not make it a Saab..It’s like going to Asia and buy rip-of gear, it’s not the real thing.
You should be driving this thing and telling us if it drives and perform like a saab.
I own a one year old Epica and I have to tell you that this is the biggest mistake that I have made, if you only do Highway driving you’ll be ok, but try and drive it around town, shocking. fit and fininsh is very poor, oh sorry you don’t look at these things…I bet you when Wheels, Motor, News ltd and Fairfax drive this thing, they won’t write it up as being a good thing or that it looks good in some colours (white and black as you did).
This only shows that you are on the payroll, nobody in the right mind would say that this is a good car.
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:32 am
So what is so special here with the revised 2008 model…….A new diesel engine, a few cosmetic changes & maybe an extra airbag here or there & stability controlas standard. Congrats on the Diesel engine but that is about it.
Six airbags & stability control I would have thought should be the least we should now expect from such a car nowadays without needing to make a point of it. I haven’t seen it written anywhere it is now structurally safer or better put together or uses higher quality parts than the cheap stuff it still has now.
Yep well done Holden, all you have done is STILL give us a second rate car compared to the one it replaced. Yep, it is cheap & has extra stuff put in it to try & make it more attractive. Exactly what we have come to expect from Korea & now HOLDEN, inferior product.
As for Ford having gone down the Korean route…..Well it failed them & it is doing the same for Holden.
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:46 am
Ra, You MUST explain where you see a VL Commodore in this. Is it in the six-light window design? The metallic grey bumpers and rubbing strips? The little duck spoiler at the back? I’m often amused when people say, “oh it looks like a blah” but, fair crack o’ the whip, this takes the cake.
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August 9th, 2008 at 5:15 am
so someone said its better than a Camry\Aurion……….well it would have to be a total lame duck if it wasnt better than a Camry\Aurion !!!! Oh well . at least its better than something!!!!
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August 9th, 2008 at 6:36 am
LMAO………….your living in a black hole if you think always that!
Things change and this is testament to that! Holden’s exercise by getting Daweoo does not reap immediate dividends in respect to car design and manufacture! They have done exceptional well and this car will sell well if suspension fully Australian tuned mega properly!
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August 9th, 2008 at 7:44 am
6 litres per 100 km’s at 110 kph is really nothing special;particularly for a diesel. My Vectra 3.2 indicates that it’s using the same amount at that speed on the flat . Surely high 4’s or low 5’s at least should be achievable.In any case, when diesel costs around 30 cpl more than petrol , it’s hard to see the attraction these days.
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August 9th, 2008 at 7:45 am
The diesel seems to have addresses the major criticism leveled at the Epica, which was the lackluster engine. All reviewers have consistently said it is quiet and comfortable.
Looks ok for the price. Not my choice, but I can see a case for fleet sales.
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August 9th, 2008 at 7:46 am
Australian New Car Buyer … pg 66
quote
” Daewoo had a reputation for giving thier owners grief. This not going to change becuase there is a Holden badge on the tailgate ”
unquote
Couldn’t have said myself
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August 9th, 2008 at 7:58 am
I’m not sure its necessarily a daewoo, just because it comes from their home manufacturer?
Honda builds most of their cars in cheap, third world countries too remember.
I like how the epica looks, im sure if it was an aussie built car it would sell well, but the daewoo tag it has been labeled with will stop that.
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August 9th, 2008 at 8:28 am
Tom - it is a Daewoo and nothing is going to change those fundamentals.
What i find absolutely hilarious is that Daewoo was a running joke in the community and no-doubt Holden clowns heavily critised them as much as the next person but becuase Holden has become the modern day showroom for Daewoo’s … those same clowns actually have the nerve to try talk them up.
What a joke, it’s so hilariuos it’s just killing me laughter
IT’S A DAEWOO AND NOTHING WILL CHANGE THAT … PERIOD !!
As for Honda, they biuld solid, high quality, ultra reliable / depenable cars just like Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, Subaru and so forth but Daewoo doesn’t … FACT !!
You know what ‘Australian New Car Buyer’ said about the 2 star death trap Daewoo Barina … “they will not recommended it at any price”.
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August 9th, 2008 at 8:42 am
Realcars - with a Camry you get proven quality, reliability, dependability and durability and virtually guaranteed trouble-free motoring wereas with the Epica you don’t … PERIOD !!
The Camry has proven it’s integrity as an ever-day, fuzz free general transport / family hack whereas the Epica is based on a platform that was renouned for giving thier owners grief and as ‘Australian New Car Buyer’ stated … just because there is a Holden badge on the tailgate doesn’t mean it will be any different.
But then again … Holden is not renouned for quality, reliable transport either so they really are a match made in Korea.
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August 9th, 2008 at 8:58 am
Maxiumus - put a Ferrari suspension on the thing if you want but it’s not gonna change the fact that it is a Daewoo.
Daewoo’s had a reputation for being awful, unreliable and troublesome set of wheels to maintain serviceable and i have absolute confidance the Epica will prove to be no differant.
If you want proven, quality, reliable, dependable, durable and trouble-free transport … buy a Camry, Accord or Mazda6 instead becuase that way you can be assured you won’t be feeding the pockets of Joe’s Garage instead.
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August 9th, 2008 at 9:14 am
“It’s Just A Daewoo Sold By Holden” are you TP by any chance?
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August 9th, 2008 at 9:17 am
If this looks like a Saab, does this mean it’s as reliable as a saab? LOL
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August 9th, 2008 at 9:20 am
Tom, it’s Dingo. Another day, another alias.
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August 9th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Cobra - really .. it’s me is it.
Gee wiz fella, how did you work that so fast … durrr
I have to give it ‘ya … you are so hot your burn’n
Anyway people … JD Powers has just released thier 2008 USA Initial Quality Survey. The survey questioned 52 000 people in the States based on 3 year old cars purchased in 2005
TOP 5
1. Lexus (Toyota)
2. Mercury (Ford)
3. Cadillac (GM)
4. Toyota
5. Acura (Honda)
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August 9th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Tom asked a question. I answered. Simple.
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August 9th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Hey Watto,how things gorgeous?
Must say Holden a big improvement but I think the Mondeo has it all over it in looks.
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August 9th, 2008 at 10:08 am
I disagree. It’s a terrible car, and there’s every reason why it sells as poorly as it does now. Decade old underpinnings and such, cheap looking exterior. (the last time I saw a red strip on the back of a car was sometime last decade)
Interior is also nasty and plastic for the class and the centre console is very empty without a sat nav screen or other display unit.
There’s something fundamentally wrong if a mainstream mid-size car gets outsold by a Lexus IS250.
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August 9th, 2008 at 10:08 am
this car is built off a daewoo chassis and has a 6 cylinder motor which was previously used by daewoo, but was actually designed by porsche (thats a fact by the way, i’m not making that up.
Everything else on the car has been 100% redesigned by GM. I’m so sick of people saying this is “same old daewoo” because its just not. Yes the barina is “same old daewoo” and so is the viva, but with the epica it has been 100% redesigned, the only difference is they kept the old daewoo floorpan and a few other components to keep the development costs down. 100% of the mechanicals in this car has been redeveloped.
So its a GM car, learn to understand this, particularly you dingo, who is clearly the biggest wanker to ever grace these forums. When are you going to learn that no one cares for what you have to say?
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August 9th, 2008 at 10:10 am
alphabeta777 have you driven the latest update mate? No? Well the reviewer here has, so maybe we should listen to him before we listen to the random ramblings of someones assumptions
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August 9th, 2008 at 10:26 am
I would be pleasantly surprised if they sell more than say 500 a month.
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August 9th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Richo - if it’s a GM car then it really ain’t any better then is it.
Sense when has GM ever been good … !!
Daewoo - GM … no differance
Regardless, the Epica is still a product of Daewoo … PERIOD !!
Seriusoly, why would any level headed person buy this car over proven quality vehicles like the Camry, Accord or Mazda6 ??
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August 9th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Richo I can’t see this superficial update making the car any better. I can’t blame you for believeing Holden’s propaganda that this Daewoo has been extensivly re-engineered because your are one eyed Holden. But the thing is the Epica is an update of the Espero which was pretty rubbish to begin with and the so called re-engineering was a different set of shocks and springs to suit aussie road conditions better.
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August 9th, 2008 at 10:54 am
It’s a daewoo. Mate, do us all a favour and go down to your nearest Holden dealer and ask for a drive in the new car. Please do tell me you actually own a car and have the means to get yourself to a dealer.
I wasn’t aware that the Mazda6, Camry or even the Accord currently offered a diesel powertrain?
That’s why any level headed person would put the Epica on their look, see, drive list.
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August 9th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Glen, same goes for you mate. Get behind the wheel of the car and then report back here.
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August 9th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Anthony - i have done exactly that. I drove the Epica when it was first released and admittedly the car was smooth and quiet. However, the car is deadset ugly and the interior is awful not to mention is an absloute slug yet people think the Camry is slow.
At the end of the day, the Epica is nothing but a revised Daewoo and historically they are renouned for giving thier owners grief … AM I WRONG !!
Or would you like me to anwser that for you.
I reserve absolutely no-doubt this car will prove more troubelsome and be less reliable then a proven product from Toyota (Camry), Honda (Accord) or Mazda (6).
Don’t assume other people haven’t driven this car (or any other for that matter) just because we do not favour a Daewoo product sold by Holden.
Nobody is denying Holden / GM have improved this car but at the end of the day - it doesn’t change the fact that the very fundamentals remain Daewoo and that particular brand has a questionable past at the very least and that’s why any level headed person would avoid this car and head to a Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Subaru or even a Ford Dealership instead.
The car (Epica) doesn’t automatically get credit just because Holden has done a few tweaks. Like any other reputable brand has had to do, it must earn it strips.
Credit doesn’t come for nothing and until proven otherwise, this car will dogged as a Daewoo.
Oh yeah - driving a car for a few hours or even a week is usually a very differant experiance to actually owning one for period of time especialy when they begin to age.
The only way this car will prove itself is with time and when it is pitched against vehicles that have consistantly proven thier worth for many generations (eg Camry) it must prove to be every bit as reliable / depenable or nothing at all.
As harsh as that may seem, reality is - that’s generally way the market compares new entrants to proven products.
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August 9th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Give me a “fuzz-free” experience for a daily driver any day.
A fuzz-free experience. Yeah. Goodness.
The low level of intellect on here is killing me with laughter.
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August 9th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
I’ll take that constructive critism, not a problem.
Now lets talk about this Daewoo Epica
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August 9th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Sure, although it would be fairest to describe it as a Holden Epica, seeing as that’s what it’s sold here as.
Describing cars by their maiden name is always problematical because, like, you’d then have to tell people what Toyota Altezzas, Celsiors, Soarers and Harriers are.
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August 9th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Golf - names don’t change cars, do they !!
What’s the differance between a Auris and a Corolla.
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August 9th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
So just back up Daewoo. So you have actually driven the new Epica Diesel which I drove last week?
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August 9th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
The Epica no longer looks like an embarrassment. If Holden can move these along at the rate of five to eight hundred a month, it’s probably as good as they can expect while the public wait for change to settle in.
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August 9th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Anthony I haven’t driven the Diesel and would expect it to a much better engine than the wheazy petrol engines that I have driven. I drove the old model when we tried to sell one at the dealership I used to work with. The only reason we got it was because we were low on stock. I drove it and its hard to say if I’ve driven a worse vehicle in the last 5 years. The interior was cheap and nasty and the dash rattled like a baby’s. I thought it was kinda smooth but nothing spectacular. We sold it for around $13500. Not real good for a 9 month old car because we couldn’t get any more for it.
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August 9th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Correction, sold it for $16500. My bad.
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August 9th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Anthony - no i haven’t driven new the Diesel version and i will reserve my judgement on that model until i have. Regardless, it doesn’t change it’s Daewoo foundations.
Golf - 800 a month … don’t hold your breath. When there are products like the Camry, Accord, Mazda 6, Liberty and even the Mondeo available - thats not going to happen in this life time
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August 9th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Gee this Dingo p@sses me off.
Third world manufacture well Toyota does it’s share of that too.
Most of the components for Toyotas are produced by small component suppliers in small backyard sweat shops in Japan.
Toyota pioneered this approach.
Gee and talk about limited development.Toyota use the Camry platform for just about everything including Lexus.
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August 9th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
I hear the Toyota reliability mantra mostly from people that know nothing about cars and anything else for that matter.
At least this reworked Epica offers something different and albiet more stylish than a bland base Camry.
This Toyota reliability thing is absolute bullshit.
Have to be repaired over distance and time like any other modern vehicle.
A WORK MATE has an old widebody with 200k which he has had since new and just spent $1500.00 on it fixing it up. He bought a new Camry this year as a car for best. Asked him why he buys Toyota and he says because they are reliable and sighted some obscure info a Holden mech he knows told him about Territories blowing up on impact.WTF.
This is why he buys Toyota as apparently all other makes aren’t reliable.
He rode in my 250klm Au the other week and couldn’t get over how smooth it was and asked me if it was new.
He also commented on how well it accelerated.
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August 9th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Nice car..
But I can’t get it..
I am a poor blogger..
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August 9th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Realcars - EXACTLY … and that’s why the Camry is a soild platform and proven throughout the world in differant models.
The fact that is it utilsed as the foundation for some Lexus models is testimony to the integrity of the basic design.
Tell me something - what luxury / prestiage model is founded on the platform that currently forms the Epica.
Maybe that might p*ss you some more !!
As for Toyota suppliers, there is no need for me to discuss thier quality control regime … is there.
Come up with as many excuses as you possibly can but it they will never alter the fact that the Epica is nothing more then a rehashed Daewoo.
Quiet, smooth and comes with a Diesel : yeah - that really ensures it will match the quality, reliability, dependability and durability of reputable Japanese models … NOT !!
Like i said, the Epica must earn it’s strips just like every other reputable model has had to do and the Epica will be no different and considering Daewoo’s history is nothing to talk about, my advice … stick to the sure thing because that way you can be more assured you won’t go wrong especially when the motor vehicle begins to age.
Every make and every model have thier issues but fact remains - some have more then others while others have more yet again.
I think i’ll take the lesser problems.
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August 9th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Abso-bloody-right Realcars,for a start you want to know where else they make Aurions in the world?
Chachoengsao, Thailand
Guangzhou, China
Santa Rosa, Philippines
Shah Alam, Malaysia
Taipei, Taiwan
Cikarang, Indonesia
Nothing wrong with Korea,I would gladly get our products made their if we could afford the labour which is why their made in Guangzhou,China! Quality of the labour that comes out of Korea far surpasses that of Thailand ,isnt that where Prados are made,also Rodeos from memory! You dont seem to have a problem with Thailand Dingo!
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August 9th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Daewoo are a similar story to Hyundai -
Hyundais main business is buildin heavy excavation mining and construction machinery; just like Daewoo
When Hyundai fist came to oz 10 years ago their cars were ugly cheap nasty basic poor quality vehicles with a reasonably good engine which came from another major manufacturer..Just like the original Daewoos
But look at the Hyundai range now - I mean the new I30 won cars guide car of the year.. and given time Daewoo will probably follow suit particularly as the platform is designed by Holden and it uses a Holden engine [As does the Alfa Romeo Brera]
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August 9th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Toyotas are no more reliable than anything else!!!
Just an example of the mentality of many Toyota owners I have met.
Grasping at straws to justify their ride.
Toyota really tap into the inherent ignorance in their customer base.
Apparently the hundreds of dollars he spends on his widebody each year still means it’s reliable even though he drives like a nun.LOL.
U won’t convince me Dingo as I know better and have owned many cars including Toyotas.
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August 9th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
In twrms of looks I would go for the Mondeo.. Because whether or not the Cumry is built on a solid well proven platform doesn’t change the fact that it looks like an Aurion that’s been smashed into a brick wall
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August 9th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
By the way all is not beer and skittles with his 2008 camry Altise. Has had it back a few times for rattles and dashboard lighting prob etc and it hasn’t clocked 5k yet.
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August 9th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Epica is a Daewoo - What car does Subaru make that is a DIRECT rival/competitot to the epica?
Bearing in mind the FACT that the Epica is FWD and ALL Subarus are AWD!
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Bavarian - you are right, i don’t have a problem with Thailand.
Quality of motor vehicles or any product for that matter doesn’t necessary depend on country but the culture and corporate discipline of the manufactuer.
The Hilux is manufactuered in Thailand yet remains amoung the highest quality, most rugged, reliable, dependable and durable in it’s class whereas the Rodeo / Colorado is far from it.
Take a look at the automotive engineering in America - the Japanese have long been renounded for the continued high quality of thier engineering in the US while Ford, General Motors and Chysler struggle to compare despite operating within the same borders.
Australia … another great example. Products from Toyota Australia has long been proven to be of higher quality with greater attention to detail not to mention superior reliability and dependability then Holden and Ford Australia despite the fact they may even be manufactuered in the same city (Toyota and Ford)
It’s not just country of origin … it’s the quality of employess, education, training, instilled culture, behaviour and professionalism.
No different to schools in the same location - one may be dogged while the other respected.
I’m sure you get my drift although you will probably hate it with a passion.
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
I think early Daewoos ran versions of the last gen mpi Camira engine as did pulsars for several years. In it’s final iteration was an excellent motor transaxle and made by Holden for 10 years or more and exported around the globe if I remember rightly.
Original Daewoos were based on earlier OPel designs.
Apart from some pesky electrical probs they have proven to be fairly reliable.
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Realcars - i don’t have to convince you. Just prove it to the many other blogger who reads this thread.
So whats it gonna be fella … referances and tools of proof or just stupid, rot talk.
Dumb question really, we all know you will take the easy path becuase truth be told - it’s the only option you got.
And forget the stories bloke … we can all make them up. It just proves you really do have nothing.
You know what the general public is more presuaded by -’proof of cliam’ and not stupidity.
We know who’s got the proof and we now who’s got the stupidity … don’t we realcars or should that read : pretend cars !!
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Realcars - referances to the Camira, you really are going downhill … fast.
And please, don’t ever put reliable and Daewoo, Camria or Opel in the same sentance - it’s WRONG !!
‘Australian New Car Buyer’ pg 66
Quote
Daewoo had a reputation for giving thier owners grief. This is not going to change because thier is a Holden badge on the tailgate”
unquote
For you to pass comment that Daewoo was reliable proved beyond any doubt you know absloutely next to nothing yet you call yourself an enthusiast .. fairdinkum, you are killing me.
I guess it really does take all sorts to make the world.
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Realcars, well done for providing real-life data! I know from personal experience that Camrys can be a lemon no more or less than any other car. I’ve had 2 of them and the first was a fragile lemon.
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
All of you get off and go watch the Olympics.
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Camry and Epica are lemons !!!!!!!!!!!!
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Golf - if that’s the best you got then give up.
The Camry enjoys a strong and respected reputation not just in Australia but every market is sold in around the world.
We all know this is true so why bother trying to compare a Daewoo to a Camry otherwise.
As a cliamed enthusiast, i would have expected alot more but haa - we all know otherwise … don’t we !!
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Realcars, you must acknolwledge the danger in citing real life experiences here. I mean, it just won’t do, Old Man!
If real life experiences don’t align with anonymously sourced numerical data, give up. You’re obviously spouting “pure rot”.
:)
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
To be honest I would never look at a Camry or Epica with my own money but if someone said I’ve won a car and the choice was between the 2. Its a no brainer I’d take the Camry, mostly because when I go to sell it afterwards its resale will be slightly higher.
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Daewoos are just as safe and reliable as a Daihatsu.. which are the basic budget basement brands of both GM and Toyota.
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Funny how this thread has turned into another “Not as good as Toyota argument”. Its getting boring people, yes compare the 2 but Dingo stop harping on about it. For once I think your right the Camry is a better product than the Epica but can you please shut up.
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Golf - it’s obviuosly easier for you to make up a story then provide proof to your claims.
One is easy - just type way.
The other… well, not so easy becuase then have to locate a referance.
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Thats right golfie - heaven forbid should anybodys experiences with cars out on the road in the real world be taken seriously when there are surveys to refer to which are often manipulated..not to mention crash tests which are perfromed in controlled conditions and don;t allow for any human input such as swerving to avoid the back of a truck
Heres a thought - if Toyota’s are so superior to all other makes as we are lead to believe; then why do the Toyota Dealerships have mechanical workshops and Factory trained technicians to fix them… Don’t Toyota make the most reliable best quality cars in the world?
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
The LAST Camira was a good car by the standards of the day. I had a 5 speed wagon as a company car back then and 150k no probs what so ever!!!!
The first Camira with the 1.6 carb engine was plagued with mech probs.
The company I worked for at the time had dozens of the first and last model Camira wagons and we couldn’t destroy the 2ltr mpi model.
Excellent small wagon.Loaded with gear to the cage at the back of the front seats. Good on fuel.Went like the clappers and of the dozen or more in our depot over a period of four years none of them missed a beat.
Much better drive than the sv21 Camry wagons at the time. Didn’t have any probs with sv21 although they weren’t driven with as much gusto as the Camiras as the Camiras were such a fun drive.
We nick named the Camiras the Alfa Camiras.Night and day between the first in the series and the last.
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Glen - Lets completely forget the Camry and compare the Epica to everything else in it’s class.
I’m happy to do that but eitherway, it’s not gonna change the fact that it is nothing more then a rehashed Daewoo of which Holden as become the modern day showroom floor for.
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
OK dingo you don’t like stories even though they may have happened.
Therefore; you should stop going on about how every mine site in the country let alone every chippie brickie sparkie farmer etc uses Toyotas - It may be true up in your little part of the world but mightn’t be the case in South Aistralia Western Australia or Tasmania
I mean name one major company; apart from Toyota of course whose entire fleet of road going vehicles [which excludes forklifts etc] consits of Nothing but Toyotas.
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August 9th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
I’m right with you, Wheelnut and Glen.
Funnily enough, my…uuurrghh…choice would be the Camry as well, but anyone sufficiently disinterested in cars to buy either should drive both to see whether they’re swayed by Camry’s badge presence or the Epica’s diesel and goodies count. I think the Epica doesn’t deserve to be dismissed any more, and I’ve done as much of that as anyone here in the past.
I din’t buy my Camrys, by the way. They were company cars. I MUST point that out! :)
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August 9th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Wheelnut - When have i ever said Toyota’s don’t have problems, fact is - i never have.
As i have stated many times before but as usual your memory span is about as long a seagulls beak … every manufactuer and every model have faults but the differance is, some have more then others while others have more yet again.
Does that sound familiar … i’m sure it does !!
I would much prefer to lesser like most other people.
However … if i have ever said Toyota’s never endure problems then by all means - show us all.
Realcars - The Camira as with most Holdens were amoung the most awful cars to have ever graced Australian roads.
The Camria was nothing more then GM’s/ Holden’s answer to the Lada Samara.
Fast forward 20 - 30 years and Holden hasn’t change, just the name of the cars.
Daewoo, Camira … all the same
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August 9th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Daewoo has a rep for giving their owners grief by Dingoes account I’d say.
What a load of BS.
I like how some of these Motor Journos(Car advice excluded) clutch onto old wifes tales or woes of an era long gone to give themselves some cred and sound like they have their finger on the pulse!
Australian New Car buyer is another infommercial Geez.
You can do that treatment on every maker including your beloved Toyota if u want to rake dirt back far enough.
Gee u wouldn’t need to go back that far either.
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August 9th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Dingo the last Camira WAS a good car. I relied on it 24/7 for three years 150k as did many of my work mates at the time and we never had an issue with them. Nothing at all!!!
As I have already mentioned by the measure of the day they were a good drive.
The sv21 Camrys were also faultless but nobody wanted one. It was always a jostle to get a new Camira that was on order.
The sv21 usually sat at the depot and had logged up less klms buy the time they were replaced.
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August 9th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Wheelnut - i have lived in Tasmania, New South Wales, Victora, Western Australia and Queensland and frequently visited the NT when i was in the forces so don’t try tell otherwise.
You are wasting your time.
And when i have i ever stated anything about 100% Toyota fleets … better still, what prompted your comment !!
Don’t start losing your cool on me Wheelnut and begin putting words into my mouth that you damn well know i have never said.
As for chippies, brickies and sparkies - it’s general knowledge and as a self claimed enthusiast … are you seriuosly gonna try tell me otherwise.
As an enthusiast, this is what i would have expected from you …
” Toyota commercials are the most popular in most areas due to thier reputation but other manufactuers sell in resonable numbers aswell ”
Does that sound accurate enough to you - give or take !!
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August 9th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Quote Dingo “I’m sure you get my drift although you will probably hate it with a passion.
Dingo you dont have to try teaching me to suck eggs,Im a manufacturer already {have been for 8 years} and agree it comes down to quality controllers from the manufacturer that determines the quality of the goods in the end,but that being said you mention employees, education, training, instilled culture, behavior and professionalism,I can tell you now Korea has it all over Thailand in that regard,Im sure you will agree you would prefer to drive your Australian made Aurion and Camry than one made in Thailand.
Trying to keep the quality standard the same in a factory is an impossible task,quality varies from day to day!
Just ask Mattel they took their eye off the ball with their factory trusting them to continue to paint their products with lead free paint,look what happened to them!Doesn’t matter how many quality procedures you put in place people take short cuts to save money,thats becoming more obvious with Toyota having more recalls than ever now!
I’m sure you get my drift although you will probably hate it with a passion.hahaha
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August 9th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Good morning Bavarian Missile! I sent you an email of the hello variety that bounced a few days ago, so maybe you could send another so I can see where you are right now.
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August 9th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Hey groover,Ive had to change my email address again! Send it to my yahoo one babe. Im painting at the moment,well trying between walls and answering Dingo!
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August 9th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Also BM these cost cuts are showing up everywhere. If you went by reputation Qantas would be a no brainer to fly with, but with them sending planes to china for maintinence look what has happened to them.
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August 9th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
I admit that some cars do have more problesm than others
However the severity of the problem can determine how much media coverage the problem gets even though the incident may be a once off - like the TRD Aurion incident.
And we all know how the media [in particular TV] love to sensationalise everything and blow things out of proprtion.. if they didn’t Today Tonight and A Current Affair wouldn’t exist
Yet one particular car like the TRD may have had a piston detach and get nationwide coverage whilst 1000s of Corollas [for example] may have a faulty indicator or something and gets no media coverage at all.. sure not as major as the TRD incident but a much greater problem as it affects more cars
My point is just because the corolla’s with their faulty indicators arent reported as widley as the TRD was doesn’t mean they are more reliable than any other car
As I said its the one off incidents that the media focuses which can change peoples opinions of a particular make/model of car…. and because the problem with the 1000s of corollas didn’t make it on to ACA people think that Corollas are more reliable
Whereas the TRD Aurion incident did have an impact on sales - the fact they have reduced the price several times and there isn’t a waiting indicates that demand/popularit is quite low despite Toytas “engineering excellence”
Just because you didn’t know about it or didn’t hear about it doesn’t mean it didn’t or doesn’t happen
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August 9th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
To anyone Considering an Epica please ignore the drivel
and make up your own mind.
I am sure car advice will give it a go in the full test if it merits it.
Open your mind Dingo.Open your mind.
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August 9th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Wheelnut, tell us more about the faulty Corolla indicators. Is it as widespread a problem as the Camry’s peeling cloth door trims, crunching 3rd gear synchros and exploding head gaskets?
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August 9th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Australian New Car Buyer.LOL
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August 9th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Same applies to the ANCAP tests - they don’t actually test the safety of the model car itself but the safety of 5 individual cars of that model.. not to mention the fact the tests don;t allow for any variable factors or outside influences etc.. highty conrtrolled very un-realistic
So even if the 5 Toyota Camrys they use in a particular series of tests [for example] may happen to pass with 5 stars - doesn;t necessarily mean that another 5 cars selected at randomn will pass with 5 stars if a second series of tests was performed.. yet the Media focuses on this so much that it makes peple think that the 5 stars applies to every individual Camry on the road and they are safe
Surveys to can give a false impression as to the safety and reliabiltiy of a make model of car car as it depends on how the questions were worded; when where and how they questions were asked; how the questions were interpreted by those taking part in the survey; how the answeres were interpreted and finally how much manipulation of the results took place.
People then read these results and think that because Toyota finished on top they are better. However the results would certainly be different if the survey was performed again in another area with a nother gorup of people etc.
Things aren’t always whow they seem/
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August 9th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Even if Holden do have more problems than Toyota they are quick to respond and issue recalls.
I mean if there is a problem with my Commodore I would like to know about it so I can get it fixed ASAP rather than the manufacturer try to cover it up; keep quiet and just fix it at the next “scheduled service”
I mean given that there are a number of components in both the Falcon Commodore Camry and Aurion made by the same supplier even though Holden got a faulty batch of seatbelt buckles there’s a bloody good chance Toyota did too
Sure there might be times when a particular problem is harder than expected to fix such as the leaky oil seals of the VT-VXs but given how intricate and advanced the modern car is with all its computer controlled safety devices etc you’ve got to be careful - its often a process of elimination eventually you will get it right.. as Holden have with the VE as its a much better car than previous models
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August 9th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Absolutely Glen,a proven point on quality control or lack of it! By the way are you a member of the CA forum ? Send me a PM if you are or perhaps you could join !
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August 9th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
That’s what we were talking about in the email, bavarian missile!
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August 9th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
But isn’t Quality a subjective thing? - that is the level of quality is all relative and quite often based on opinion.
Whether or not something is of quality depends on what you are comparing it to.. Toyotas interiors [for example] may be of better quality than Holden or Ford whereas Holdens or Fords Suspension may be better quality than Toyotas etc.
Inorder to get an accurate comparison you should compare FWDs with FWDs not RWDs or AWDs… V8s With V8s not V6s or Turbo 4s cars priced at 20-30K with other cars at 20-30K not 200-300K
It all comes down to your own personal standards and level of expectations.
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August 9th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
The first steer review kind of makes me sad.
I expected more from caradvice.
How does a new engine change the whole car? Everyone who tested the 2007 model said it was pathetic. Bad brakes, low quality materials and it handled like a sloppy pie. And lets not even go to safety ratings and long term reliability.
What exactly is new in the 2008 model apart from the diesel engine? Nothing I assume. I don’t see how the car can change from been pathetic to now be compared to a Saab.
Also the words Epica and Saab shouldn’t be used in the same sentence. This car looks like it was designed 10 years ago.
I wish everyone who will buy one good luck with the resale value of the Epica.
Look elsewhere people there are much much better cars out there that will actually hold decent resale value.
Cheers
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August 9th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
True - Holden have fixed the oil leak with the new V6 [which is similar to the one Holden build for Alfa Romeo] and as a result there are quite a number of people who used to own VN-VXs that have upgraded to the VE instead of going elsewhere.. which indicates they didn’t think the oil leak was a really major problem …. Unlike a piston becoming detached now that’s a MAJOR problem
Yet despite the oil leak over the time of the VN-VX range Holden continued to outsell Toyota didn’t they?
As for the Camira being Crap - sure I admit it wasn’t a great car but it won COTY… beating the Camry/Corona
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August 9th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Doesn’t really matter what you think about the Epica as it will be replaced when the much better quality insignia/vectra arrives mid way through next year or early 2010
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August 9th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
Yes Yanni u better stick with Toyota.
U know when it comes trade-in time the dealers will be knocking each other out to buy it off u and u could turn a profit on it especially if it has no klms on it!
When people ask me what to buy I tell them to buy Toyota as used examples are worth more than new over time!
If I had room I’d buy 10 Camrys and store them until I retire and cash them in and turn a handsome profit.
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August 9th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
“If Holden could sell 500-800 hundred a month”….Wishful thinking Golf.
Holden only managed to move approx 70 of them a month the past 6 months. Now because they have a more expensive diesel (the cost of the car & petrol) car & some minor cosmetic changes they will moves multiple hundreds more……………Nup, I can’t see the market all of a sudden seeing this as a good car.
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August 9th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Holden means a great deal to Korean!!
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August 9th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
This car will makes it’s numbers in fleets, not so much with consumers in general.
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August 9th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Quote: [It’s a Dingo Sold by Holden]: “….don’t try tell otherwise…..You are wasting your time.”
Don’t we know it?
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August 9th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
The Mondeo and the Mazda6 are both far better than the Epica or the Cum-ry.. particularly in terms of looks performance standard features and value for money.
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August 9th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Bavarian Missile Says: “Nothing wrong with Korea,I would gladly get our products made their if we could afford the labour which is why their made in Guangzhou,China! Quality of the labour that comes out of Korea far surpasses that of Thailand ,isnt that where Prados are made,”
Definitely not!! The Prados are produced on a Lexus GX line in the Tahara Plant in Aichi, Japan!! This is a lexus dominated plant, also this plant has the distinct recognition as the world’s most advanced plant and has won awards for both the quality of production and attention to detail by JD Power and Associates. Also another U.S study found it to be the number 1 plant importing automobiles into the U.S in terms of quality (ie lowest percentage of faults), even beating BMW’s, and Benz’s German plants!!
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August 9th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Quote [Tomas79]: Holden means a great deal to Korea!!
Nice one Tomas..[LOL] very original..[sarcasm] what about
Toyota means a great deal to 3 extremists?
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August 9th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Toyota Hilux is made in Thailand.
Koreans are certainly ahead of the Thais as far as industrial development goes.
So what is your point Thomas79?
Thomas79 u really are thick man.LOL.
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August 9th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Lexus dominated. Does that make u feel good thomas.lol
The only Hilux in a “Lexus dominated plant”.
Not the same production line no just “Lexus dominated”.
I dont think the collective Lexii ownership would appreciate your inference. Built in the same building as a Hilux how crass! I bet Toyota salesmen don’t tell Lexus buyers this “story”.
Keep deluding yourself.Why don’t u stick a lexus badge on
the gaudy plastic chrome grill.LOL.
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August 9th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
hmm, looks marginally better than the original and seems to be a great price, however I’m not too sure on the reliability of this car yet. Have only seen a handful (yes, I can count) since it was released. Not doing too well in this department I think, think the Vectra sold more? not sure.
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August 9th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
My mistake Tomas,but you also missed out their made in Envigado,Colombia.
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August 9th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Riker, please re-read my comment. I wrote “If Holden can move these along at the rate of five to eight hundred a month, it’s probably as good as they can expect while the public wait for change to settle in.”
The operative words are “if” and “probably as good as they can expect.”
And that’s the truth! It wasn’t my prediction. It’s not something I’m hoping for. I actually couldn’t give a flying rat’s arse whether they sell 37 or 500, but “if” Holden DID manage to sell 500 a month, it’s “probably as good as they can expect”.
Phew! I hate explaining myself in that degree of detail.
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August 9th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Just looking at some picks of the Hilux Prado interior and dash and it is generic Toyota blue yuk. The Epica actually has a nicer interior and dash at less than half the price.Amazing.
Further to the Prados Hilux origins u can still buy a new Prado gx with the 2.7ltr four pot as in the old rv model.
Funny that.LOL.
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August 9th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
my goodness… so many tossers on this site.
Thats really all i have to say
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August 9th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Sounds like Korean made in the case of the Epica can be a good thing!
Don’t know where your new Toyota will be made?
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August 9th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Anthony we hear you loud and clear mate…your on the payroll because no person in their right mind would be telling people to go and drive this bucket, I don’t know if you have driven one of these buckets once they have done about 20,000km? Just in case you havn’t I’ll tell you about them because I have driven one, IT”S A BUCKET OF SH.. simple as that, they creak, they squeak, they fall apart, they break down and they spend time at the dealership… Holden dealers tell us that we a stupid and don’t understand how this car works…IT”S A CAR FOR GOD SAKE!!!
so don’t tell me that you are a good journalist and take us for fools… next you’ll tell us that the Lada is a great car and that we should all be driving one…wake up to your self, if you think that you are telling us the truth you should give up this job as a journalist and keep your job as a marketer.
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August 9th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
cheers Edward for proving my point…
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August 9th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
Anthony, the upgrade to CDXi diesel from the lower spec diesel is actually $3000 according to the figures posted in your article; not the $2000 you claimed it to be, still reasonably good value though.
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August 9th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
i actually own a 2008 lancer VRX (take that everyone who thinks i’m one eyed holden, my fravorite car company is actually mitsubishi! so fckn you) and i love my VRX, handles great, looks good, nice raspy engine (over 3500rpm anyway) BUT i tell you what in my day to day commute, if i had a 6 speed auto turbo diesel holden epica with leather seats in my driveway (which would have cost me the same as my lancer) i would drive the epica in the daily commute. I would still be in the lancer every time when i wanted to have a “drive” but if it was just general transportation, give me a quiet, comfortable cruise mobile every day. And by all reports thats exactly what the epica is
It’s never gonna be the best car in class, but thats mainly down to outright handling ability and this kind of thing which in reality you don’t use every day.
Its like the argument of which is better, falcon commodore or aurion, ofcourse one is the best, but for the average man in the street just driving to work, or some pensioner driving to the shops, they are all identical. Those ridiculing people who own epica’s are just missing the point. Just because we are all car people doesn’t mean EVERYONE has to be car people. For alot of people the most important things are comfort, ease of use and value for money. And like it or not the epica does VERY well in all three areas. It’s just as comfortable as the camry, mazda 6 and mondeo, its just as easy to drive BUT it kills all of them in terms of the level of equipment you get for the money, especially when you take into account a diesel engine which the camry and mazda 6 currently don’t even offer! and the mondeo’s diesel is nearly 8k more expensive!
You lot need to get your heads out of the sand and realise that not everyone is willing to pay an extra 8k for the sort of dynamic ability that 90% of family car buyers just will never use!
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August 9th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
and edward you know why i, and probably everyone else, knows your full of shit when you claim to have all this experience with epica’s? Because if you really did you would be able to name specific issues you have experienced, not just general stuff like “it squeak and creak and break down”
For example with my lancer i know that their is a rattle in the steering colum, notice how i can be specific their and you can’t? I also know that both falcons and commodores have problems with power steering, always have, again note the specificness?
I have spoken to holden mechanics who complain bitterly about the new barina’s having issues, they also complain about rodeo’s, and they use to complain about commodores (i’m going back to the VT commo’s power steering woe’s here) BUT i haven’t heard one yet complain about the epica’s, or the captiva’s for that matter!
Incedently the biggest thing dealership mechanics hate is people coming in and complaining that their car can’t match the ADR fuel economy sticker. When questioned they usually always admit they drive predominantly in city traffic, but still think it must be a problem with the car.
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August 9th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
and before you say edward that you where just being breif or whatever and thats why you didn’t name specific issues, i also know that the phsycology of dissatisfied customers is to tell everyone they can AT LENGTH about what problems they are having, they go on and on and on about it. Your not doing that, that’s why we all know you are full of shit
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August 9th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
Bavarian Missile Says: “My mistake Tomas,but you also missed out their made in Envigado,Colombia. “
No, I did not!! The 3rd generation LC120 Prado, which Australia receives, is only manufactured in the tahara plant in Japan.
Realcars, you are seriously mentally ill, seek help, and I’m not kidding!As I said before, The Hilux doesn’t s