2008 Ford Falcon gets five star safety rating

By Alborz Fallah | August 04th, 2008

The Ford FG Falcon is set to become the first every Australian built car to record a five star rating with the Australian New Car Assessment Program, ANCAP.

The official announcement by ANCAP is to be made on Wednesday but unconfirmed reports carried in several Australian newspapers today revealed the results, which are a ringing endorsement of the new Falcon for struggling Ford Motor Company.

The reports indicate that the FG Falcon scored the results in the latest round of ANCAP testing and CarAdvice understands that the Falcon G6E, which recently narrowly won our latest Four Car Comparison Test, was the vehicle to clinch the top safety rating.

It’s major local rivals the Holden VE Commodore and the Toyota Aurion/Camry both scored only four stars when they were tested soon after their release onto the market.

To achieve the full five-star rating a manufacturer must donate a vehicle to ANCAP to undergo the ‘pole test’ and to-date, Holden and Toyota have avoided taking this step.

Ford indicated from the launch of the FG Falcon that it would donate a car for the test, an indication it was confident of getting the elusive five-star rating.

The pole test is the most difficult to pass and side-curtain airbags are a virtual prerequisite for any car to pass this demanding test.

In addition any car wanting to achieve the five-star rating must have Electronic Stability Control as standard and have seat belt warning lights for every occupant.

Ford has side-curtain airbags available as an option on some lower spec models and CarAdvice would expect that these will have achieved a four-star rating, while the higher spec models with the extra airbags as standard will get the five star rating.

The five-star ANCAP rating is certain to give Ford a big boost over its rivals, with local consumers paying an increasing amount of attention to safety ratings in recent times.

Click through to read our Four Car Comparison Test.

BIG JIM

Good stuff. Now ford needs a decent marketing campaign to get the message to the punters.
The Axe

Well there you go…

All those doubters can now line up and take some humble pie.
BK

I said it even a few months before the FG was to be released that it be a 5 star safety rating vehicle of Aust. So wat the hell did holden spend a billion dollars on. GTHO is next. Ford still conquers in aus.
Richo

only thing is, is it really an accurate comparison? The testing for the FG was different then for the aurion and commodore because with the FG they did a pole test. If holden and toyota donated their cars for pole testing would they also get 5 stars? I guess we’ll never know but i just wonder how valid it is to compare them on their safety ratings given the differences in testing.

Still, take nothing away, a bloody good acheivement by Ford to get 5 stars!
Tom

You can be sure Holden will have to make the VF 5 stars to be competitive, from what i’ve heard the VE could have achieved that through proper testing anyway.
Bret

Car Advice,
I think you are wrong:
“side-curtain airbags are a virtual prerequisite for any car to pass this demanding test”.

Every model Falcon has side airbags, with “curtain” aribags optional on lower spec and standard on the higher spec models.

The side airbags on EVERY Falcon model, combined with the superior structural integrity, will see the entire Falcon range recieve a 5 star rating.
The Axe

What proper testing are you refering to Tom?? Every car gets tested the same way, so it is the same now matter which brand.
BK

if holden dont make there next car a 5 star ratin then they certainly are true blue pontiacs. Holden go back to GM and stay there for good where u originally come from
http://caradvice.com.au OSU811

Well about time I say! why has it taken austalian manufacturers so long, especially considerin the size of the cars and the size of crumple zones they have, if a tiny little fiat 500 and a mini can get 5 stars, its an embarrasment that its taken australia this long!!
Jimbo

Well done Ford, you are now at a level of safety that many other manufacturers have been at for the last decade.

And Holden still have not made it yet??????
Richo

The Axe – as stated in the article and other peoples comments, both the aurion and the commodore did not get the pole test, only the falcon did. It is impossible to get the 5 star rating without the pole test. Therefore both the commodore and aurion actually got 4 out of a possible 4. Only the falcon was given the opportunity to get 5 stars because they got the pole test.
Richo

Jimbo – again, we don’t know if holden have made it or not, because it hasn’t been pole tested. Commodore and aurion got 4 out of 4, only the falcon was tested out of 5 stars, the others only out of a possible 4
http://caradvice.com.au OSU811

I think everyone is forgetting the fact that holden and toyota refused to do the pole test..So my opinion is if they wernt confident anough to do the test they obviously had there doubts on if it would pass!!!!
http://www.caradvice.com.au David Twomey

Both Holden and Toyota were offered the opportunity of doing the Pole Test but refused, either they don’t take these ratings seriously enough or they were not confident of getting the fifth star.
BTW every car is tested for the maximum rating, it just isn’t possible to score enough points to make five stars without the Pole Test and also the need, as of January, to have mandatory ESC.
BTW I believe when the Holden and Toyota were tests, at the same time, Toyota was told ” do the pole test and you will get five stars” – the answer ” why – nobody cares”
- interesting attitude.
Golfschwein

This is a great result for Ford. Well done to them.

BK, your catch-cry of “What the hell did Holden spend a million bucks on” is wearing a little thin.

If you haven’t worked out where the money went and what the results were, just ask for a little help instead of looking unintelligent. Do a little reading, perhaps…it’s not hard.
AC COBRA

Go Ford !!!!!!!! this is a TOP achievment not many people can’t knock this effort unless he or she is so one eyed it doesn’t what other companies are doing.

5 STARS YIPEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Richo

thats right David Twomey, both holden and toyota where told they just needed to do the pole test to get 5 stars, and both refused to do it mainly as a protest of the fact that they had to donate the car. The euro NCAP testing does not require the manufacturers to donate the cars, where as the australian tests do, and holden and toyota felt that was unjustified and that if the ANCAP where so keen to bring themselfs into line with europe with regard to its testing, it should also supply the car for the pole testing themselfs, just like in europe.
Adam (aka Mada)

Jimbo…

Please explaim yourself, tired of the irelevant comments in order bate useless arguments.

You claim “many other manufacturers have been for at least the last decade”

Please list those…

1.manufacturers
2. price range of vehicle
3. class of vehicle

When you can answer these points accurately i might actually develop some respect for your comments.

The FG gets 5 stars, higher than it’s primary competition, fact, get over it.

The VE and aurion AND 380 are 4 star cars, you didn’t know this? wow you do miss basic auto news.
http://integra What The ?

FG Falcon 5 stars……..well done.

Toyota and Holden refused to supply a car for the pole test……what does this indicate?? lol Maybe Holden think they have done their pole test already because every week they see a pic of another Commodore wrapped around a tree or lamp post !!
Minnow

Aww… “What the?”, thats harsh…though a crudely entertaining comment.
Richo

yeah cos i’ve never seen an old falcon wrapped around a pole… come on fellahs
Minnow

Well atleast now, people can safely wrap their falcon around a tree in 5 star comfort….

But yeah, well done to ford!! will hopefully cause some serious competition for the other players to lift their game.
The Axe

I don’t see the point in complaining about the fact that a car has to be supplied. Even if that was not the case, what do Holden and Toyota think they are going to do with the cars they don’t “supply”?

And the Euros that have had a 5 star rating for “years” are neither attainable by the majority of the population, not are they as suitable as a Falcon would be. Renault is known for their safety ratings, but how suitable are they to most? Scenic, Laguna etc?
Give credit where it is due!
Minnow

exactly, the axe. You blokes making comments about the euros having that rating for years.. well for someone to get into a car similar to the falcons level of size/comfort/power would have to be cashed up or really debted up. But now a mere commoner can get top levels of safety at an attainable price!! good stuff ford!
Richo

yep and my 07 mitsubishi lancer VRX is also 5 star, so is most renaults since around 2004 in the case of the megane and i don’t know about you, but generally a falcon is more expensive then a megane… Subaru liberty for a number of years has also been 5 stars, even the previous model forester, now superseded, was 5 stars.

I’m not trying to bring the falcon down, its an acheivement, but lets put it into perspective. It’s not just uber expensive luxury cars that have had it for years, but also alot of cars that are actually cheaper then falcons…
Adam (aka Mada)

Please tell what liberty is cheaper than a falcon from a few years back?

Is the liberty in the same class as falcon? is a megane?

Does a magane primary competition cost more or less?

yes lets put things into perspective…
Adam (aka Mada)

read what minnow said.

“well for someone to get into a car similar to the falcons level of size/comfort/power would have to be cashed up or really debted up.”
Minnow

Yeah indeed, but as i said. All those cars are 4cyl’s with the exception of maybe a 3L flat 6 outback which is similar in price to a G6E. Otherwise the sedans, that are now comparable to the falcon are the likes of BMW’s 5 series and Merc e-class’s in safety and performance… maybe not build quality or interior noise levels, but thats got to be taken into consideration the price of it. And also Ford Australia sells a lot less vehicles than the other manufacturers that sell their cars all over the world, which enables their development cost to be covered over more units. To see a small manufacturer come close to those behemoths is brilliant!
Adam (aka Mada)

Exactly.
Jon

Bottom line is the Falcon has a 5 star rating and the Commodore, Aurion and 380 don`t. They had a chance at getting one, end of story.
Starky

The Commodore in its current shape will not get 5 stars. Simple. Why? No crumple zone in the front – FFS its worse than the VZ in that area. Another example of Holden designers going nuts to make the car pretty, in the end making all of the engineering completely and utterly compromised.

It’s also rather dumb to conclude that Holden and Toyota simply didn’t give a car for a pole test because of costs or as a protest- one car is a TINY amount of money for them and they are known to leech the life out of any marketing possibility that exists. The Toyota didn’t get 5 stars because of cost cutting, the Commodore didn’t get 5 because the engineering came behind the looks in every aspect. The Falcon, while it’s proportioning certainly isn’t as good as the Commodore’s, is first and formost an engineered car, not a superficial one. Ford already had a competitive platform and based the car around that, not basing the platform around the constraints of the sheetmetal.
Minnow

exactly! Ford RULZ!! another reason to support my obsession with ford falcons!
Riker

As a Holden man, this leaves me feeling angry, as it proves that Holden aren’t really focused on producing (or selling) world class safe cars. They had a chance with the 1 billion dollar Commodore, but failed insisting it was never really their goal to produce a 5 star Commodore, plus they now import sub standard safe cars (in todays market) from Korea. The safest & best engineered car in the Holden fleet is the “EURO” Astra. Hint hint Holden………………….

As much as it pains me to say, well done Ford Australia.
Richo

lol come on Riker, your clearly a ford fan in disguise mate… your not fooling anyone
http://www.caradvice.com.au David Twomey

Richo,
You actually have it pretty wrong. All the cars tested by EuroNCAP are DONATED by the manufacturers.
They don’t pay for any cars.
ANCAP still insist on buying the initial test cars because they are concerned about accusations of “special” cars being supplied by the manufacturers.
EuroNCAP simply pick a random VIN from a production lot and that’s the car that gets crashed, same goes for the pole test, random number and that’s the victim. They pay nothing for any of these cars because the Euro companies place such high value on the results.
Unlike Holden and Toyota who continually seek to denegrate the work of ANCAP by implying their tests are inferior to the in-house tests that Holden or Toyota run.
Andrew M

the smaller euro cars get 5 stars because they arent tested in the same way.

who ever believes they would have been safer in a 5 star focus over a 4 star BF falcon seriously needs to get into perspective.

i think starky has summed it up beautifully, in that holden tries too much to make a car appealing, and engineering comes second.

ive always said holden only makes cars for “fans”.

does this 5 star rating for ford really mean anything??
i dont think it will because the morons at ford marketing will bury these great results so deep that the only part of the public that will hear about it will be those that go hunting for it.
ford could have a field day with quotes from media complimenting the falcon, but lets just have fingers walking……..
they could brag about how the falcon easily achieves better fuel consumption than even the aurion in real world testing, or that this aussie first has just been created, but no, lets just do fingers walking.
topdog

Well done ford we should be pround of this car it just keeps getting accolades after accolades this falcon is now so far ahead of the commondore its not funny.I just cant belive thay made the commondore with so many bad bits like the auto box the engine the hand brake the interior the sat nav which is almost down on the floor you haveto take your eyes way of the road to see it, Not like the falcon and most euro cars the sceen is at the top in line of site
topdog

Yes i agree falcon is so on top now and thay should realy be getting the message across there marketing is not up to toyota.Thay should be making fun of the other cars giving them a fight
http://www.caradvice.com.au David Twomey

Andrew M
I think you will find all tests are conducted in exactly the same way. There is no special test for smaller cars.
Andrew M

David,
I was of the belief that cars were tested againt objects of their own size.

sure they are tested in the same way (so to speak)
but i was sure a focus wasnt tested against a 1900kg brick wall.
but im happy to be corrected if im wrong
senator

The VE when tested had two airbags as opposed to 6 airbags which is standard now in the omega, and yes the ve and the aurion got 4 out of the maximum 4 as they didnt do the pole test.

Well if ford used the xt.G6 or any of the xr models it would of not got 5 stars, in this case they used the G6E Which is the only ford falcon with 6 airbags standard.
http://realcars realcars

If Toyota and Holden refuse the pole test then one can only assume that Toyota and Holden know that their vehicles won’t pass.

After all they have everything to loose and everything to gain.LOL.

Ford should go to town with this result and blow offerings from opposition out of the water.They need to be Toyota aggressive but pedaling a better product obviously.LOL.
http://integra What The ?

Senator…….just fitting extra airbags will not automatically get the Commode 5 stars. Its about body design strength and also how all of the safety systems work together.
I also think that the VE “A” pillars also would contribute to it not getting 5 stars, they are way too thick and they would contribute to an accident because of poor forward vision.
Holden only decided to fit curtain airbags because the FG Falcon was coming out, which means that if the FG didnt come out they would NOT have fitted them at all !!!!!
Turbo Ute

senator,

The All FG Falcon sedans have HEAD protecting side airbags as standard. This could potentialy allow a base model XT to pass the pole test without curtain airbags. When curtain airbags are optioned up, front and back row passengers have head protecting airbags not just the front row.

And there are two distinct models in the Falcon range with curtain airbags standard, the G6E and G6E Turbo.
JC

Andrew M – all cars are tested the same way. Have a mate who works in the RTA’s Crashlab out near Eastern Creek and all the ANCAP testing is done into a deformable barrier – sort of a honeycomb-type of structure, so not against a solid wall. Hence all ANCAP results are comparible, but only to the extent that essentially they represent a collision with another vehicle of similiar size and mass. Only recently one of the Euro publications (can’t remember which) did an offset collision with (if i remember correctly) a 4-star Volvo V70 or something against a 5-star mini (maybe a Fiat 500) and the bigger car still came out on top. Shows that bigger is still better in a head-on.

And from what I was told, the car that passed the side-impact test was the XT with its side airbags but no curtain airbags.
Watto_Cobra

Thanks for the info JC.

I’ve always suspected a large 4-star car would still provide more protection than a small 4-star car.

Interesting that the side-impact was an XT without the optioned curtain bags. Makes the result look even better.
Golfschwein

oopsies…in news just to hand….
Richo

whats the news golfie?
Richo

oh and turbo ute, all side impact airbags are head airbags mate… did you think the commodores where just to protect their arms or something????
alec

Richo,
I thought most/all side airbags were head/thorax with the main purpose of side airbags being protection of the chest area.

Curtain airbags main purpose is head protection
alec

As quoted from Audi’s Glossary on their website fro Side Airbags

“Together with a properly worn three point safety belt they reduce the load on the thorax and pelvic areas.”
Richo

thats correct Alec, but as you said, its HEAD/thorax. Curtain airbags improve head protection further, but side airbags to provide some protection.

point is though that the side airbags on the FG are the same as on the VE.

Anyway, i think you’ll find that now that ford has got 5 stars, holden will submit the VE for the pole test now, either that or they will wait till VF. Won’t make a difference anyway as the VF will be structurally identically to the VE, and the VE now also has curtain airbags standard accross the range. Something that the FG DOES NOT have, but hey why should we point out a positive for the commodore…
alec

Richo,
Although side airbags are refferred to head/thorax, their main purpose is protection of the chest down, vital organs such as heart, lungs kidneys etc.

In regard to the falcon not having curtain bags as standard, the $300 saving on rrp of Falcon XT compared to commodore is exactly the cost of the optional $300 curtain airbags…

So whats the problem
silky

He cant get his head around the fact the falcon is a safer and better car than the holden, thats the problem
Stevo the Devo

The FG is the best aussie made car ever. It beats all the others in every aspect, performance, handling, fuel economy and now safety. Those rice-burning crapboxes don’t even come close in quality. Now to try to convince the boss to get another company car – The F6 will increase productivity because I can get from job to job faster!!!
Andrew M

JC,
thats what i was getting at mate.
you wont be safer in a 5 star small car than if you were in a 4 star large car.

when i said “brick wall” it was a bit of slang. i didnt literally mean they drove them into a brick wall.

a 5 star small car is only comparible to ratings of other small cars and not to vehicles in a larger class.

didnt the Tata Nano achieve 4 stars or something????
commonsense will tell you straight away that a crash test on a small car is based on it only crashing into a vehicle of its own size
Starky

Pole test will not make a difference. From memory the maximum extra score that can be handed out is 3 – the VE got 27 from memory. Therefore it will not make 32.5. The front of the car is simply not good enough at withstanding crashes, and side airbags are (as shown by the Falcon’s absence and ability to achieve 5 stars) are overrated. You can’t honestly think that simply retrofitting 6 airbags to a VR Commodore or a EL will make it 5 star (if it were even remotely possible). The BMW 5 series, which is virtually what Holden based a fair bit of their design off, has 6 airbags, yet only gets four-stars. Holden simply have not had enough experience of designing their own cars from scratch.

There is one key issue with the “Holden can just fit airbags or warning lights to bring it up to scratch” argument – why haven’t they done it already?
Richo

No problem Alec, i was just saying that the VE commodore isn’t the worst car ever made unlike what other people are trying to make out. Yes the FG is a better car, i have admited this a number of times on these forums before, but what i keep saying is that the FG is also a 2 year newer design, so it damn well should be a better car!! Thats the only point i try and make, but all the blue bloods on here prefer to just run the VE into the groun and say FG IS BESTEST EVA! which it probably is, but hey i would argue every day that if the FG is the best aussie car ever made, then the VE would have to be the second best. Either way you look at it, they are both great cars. The VE was the best untill the FG came along, the question now is will the VF better the FG? We’ll have to wait and see…

Does all of that make me someone who cannot accept that the FG is better Silky? Dont think so..
Richo

The biggest thing I would like to say is that the ford fans on here, you don’t need to run the VE into the ground just to make yourself feel better about the FG. Why is it so hard for people on here to not only be proud of the fact that their fravorite car, the falcon, is currently the best, but also concede that hey, that VE isn’t a bad car either, its a pretty damn close second in reality! The difference between the two cars, in reality, would be almost exactly the difference which 2 years of development would make! Also, ford knew exactly what they where dealing with with the FG because the VE was already out, so if they made a car that wouldn’t have been as good then they would have been absolute gooses which NO aussie car engineers are, we have amongst the best engineers in the world, hence why we have such great cars.

All this is relevant, all this is required to put things into perspective. I just get frustrated when people try and make out the VE is a heap of shit, because it just isn’t! It’s like saying an Aston Martin V8 Vantage is a heap of shit because its not as good as a 911! Complete rubbish!
silky

What was that Richo??
Richo

i just can’t handle how fcking amazing the falcon is silky… or is it that i can actually see both sides of the red vs blue argument?

The falcon is a great car, but the commodore is hardly a boat anchor either
Richo

seriously throw the aurion in there aswell, all 3 are fantastic australian products that we should be proud of. Ofcourse one is the best, there always has to be a best, but mate its not like the alternatives are shit heaps
silky

Richo, I’m having a lend of ya mate, all 3 are great cars that will take it in turn at being the best.
Richo

Pity toe 380 isn’t around anymore silky, that was a seriously underrated car. Impressed the pants off me every time i drove one, particularly the absolutely beautiful drivetrain, the specs may not have shown it, but it was definetly the best drivetrain in an aussie built 6 without question in my mind. Fansatic ride and handling combo to boot. Pity the exterior and interior styling was, well, american… that ultimately didn’t give it a chance
silky

Was a good car mate, shame we lost it
John

Well done Ford on the 5 star rating. I have a question. Now is ford going too start shifting some falcons or are the sales going too remain dismal and this news will have no impact at all? VE may only be a 4 star car but even at 2 years old it outsold the FG in June by 900 units. In July the FG struggled again. Good work Ford. Rather than pats on the back and people on here sprouting crap. Why don’t they start selling some cars instead! Cheers!
Andrew M

i agree john,

how can they have the best product and still not sell it.

some heads in the marketing department need to roll…..
Joober

Well, petrol prices are high, credit crunches and government… in fact the world has gone econogreen carbon sensitive… hmm I wonder why FG sales are dismal. the Large segment suffer and i’m guessing it will till the big sixes change.

Im with you Richo, its amazing people put this car on the podium clearly when they have had a headstart of 2 years from its competitors. It should a ‘noduh’ thing the falcon being the best. Its all a cycle of manufacturers delivering better cars than one another over and over again…. but then again Toyota has their own fanboys, ford will have too.
Andrew M

jobber and richo,

perhaps you can tell all the results of the last time all 3 manufacturers launched a new model within the same month.

that would have been late 2002………

4 years after the VZ still didnt match the BA/BF.

there were bugger all aspects of the VE that bettered the BF let alone how much better the FG is
Joober

Not sure of the dates but… Err isnt the BF released in 2005 and the MKII in 06 (same year as the VE)? and the VZ started production in 2004? so of course the BF will outbetter the VZ since the VZ is still older. As for the BA which came out 2002, your probably right on that account as it was 2 years before the VZ came out.

and VE coming out same year as BFII means holden engineers/designers didnt have the opportunity to outdo the BF. Also given Holdens 1 billion investment, which includes a manufacturing overhaul, I think the VE was in the cookbooks for a fairly long time possibly it was targeted against the BA in its infant stages of the products development lifecycle.
Richo

Andrew M – why? Why do you need to start an argument when a previous argument has already been resolved? Yes in 2002 the BA was better then the VY, but again this comes down to the fact that one car has to be the best, on that occasion it was the falcon. Going back further, the AU significantly trailed the VT commodore, but the VT was a significantly better car, so i mean if you really wanna dig up the past… How did the falcon of the time go against the VL? If you can remember back that far the answer is not very well…

And be serious, the VE was a better car in many aspects then the BA, it handled better, was roomier, was more fuel efficient (4spd BF XT used more then a 4spd omega, it just did) looked better, was more comfortable inside, was better equiped.. i mean mate seriously it was just a much better car, but as it should have bloody well been considering it was competeing against a design that dated back to 1998! No shame in that.

The only aspect the BF bettered the VE was the sound the standard 6 made against the VE’s V6, which is just one area. Now we are trying to have a sensible convo here Andrew M, you normally participate in them, why be difficult tonight?
Richo

And yep your right Joober, anyone who thinks holden put all of their cards on the deck with the VE knowing all along that ford would release a new model not too long into its lifecycle is kidding themself. Car manufacturers have to make a design be relevant throughout their entire model cycle, not just the first 18 months.

Look at porsche, the PDK transmition (which is brilliant) was ready at the launch of the 997 model 911 a few years back, but they heald off untill the mid cycle update… hmm i wonder why that was???

Holden have alot up their sleeves, direct injection, displacement on demand, passive hybrid systems, full hybrid systems, 6 speed auto’s, magnetic ride control (given to HSV to “test run”) even direct injection and variable valve timing for the big V8. Holden aren’t done yet, they still have quite alot.

Ford on the other hand? Well under great sufference they are being forced to “upgrade” to a V6 which is a newer design obviously then the straight 6, but i would say their is a fat chance of it being a better motor considering ford’s 6 is amongst the worlds best motors in my opinion. Other then that they have…… oh..
Richo

and yes the commodores V6 is pretty bad aswell, but don’t forget the problems with the commodores V6 centres around the intake and cylinder head design, as proved by alfa romeo which uses the same alloytec engines just with their own head and intake and whaddayaknow its a fine motor! And ofcourse all of this has to be scrapped and redone with direct injection so all of this SHOULD be addressed when this happens… we’ll see ay
No Name

Hang on a min. The Falcons only been on the market for weeks, give it time. I’m sure the buyers will come flooding in once the mags have done their evaluations. Fleet buyers tend to stick to proven products until production gremlins have been sorted. Come say October the figures will tell.
Joober

Richo – thats right, its called sustainability, release only when the market needs it. You release marginally better products/variances over time,

Unfortunately with all the multibillion loses incurred by GM, such strategy may become irrelevant in Holdens part.
Richo

it would be interesting joober if GM collapsed who would buy which companies? Certainly the big names like saab, opel, vauxhal, chevvy, pontiac, cadillac and i would hope holden would be included in that, would be bought up by someone. Not necessarily all together, they’ll probably all get divvied up
Bret

Richo,
As said this has been done before, yet once again you let your preference for Holden cloud the reality.

Yep, the (new) VL was better than the (old) XF, but vastly inferior to the (new) EA released mid VL cycle.

Holden then went VN etc and it was well behind the Falcon for another 10 years until the VT MATCHED the EL in ’97.

The VT was then soundly trounced in capability again by Falcon in ’98.
And the VT was far from a significantly better car than an AU, many claim it didn’t even match it. Obviously you never lived with both, because the reality is vastly different to your “claims”.

Cheers.
Duck

^^^^^^^^^The AU Falcon did not trounce over the VT! You’d find the VT was a better car overall then the AU and the AU was 1 year newer at the release over the VT.
BIG JIM

JC Says:
August 5th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Only recently one of the Euro publications (can’t remember which) did an offset collision with (if i remember correctly) a 4-star Volvo V70 or something against a 5-star mini (maybe a Fiat 500) and the bigger car still came out on top. Shows that bigger is still better in a head-on.

It was German safety body ADAC, between the tiny Fiat 500 and the Audi Q7 four-wheel-drive.
view hear:
(youtube.com/watch?v=6pVF1Wr7GLQ)
Bigger is better. Falcon is better.
Bret

Duck,
Have you lived with both? Have you even driven either?

Reality is AU (particularly series II & III) is a better car than VT.
AU confronted people with is’s overly contempory styling, so sales suffered, but it was a better car overall.
http://realcars realcars

All Holden need to do with the VE is make the 5 speed and high output engine stock and they are back in the game.

I am bias towards Falcon but the VE is a great looking car and design.
http://realcars realcars

Had another look at the fg range today.

Ford need to add some bling to the base car IMO.

This is where it will loose sales to the large four cylinder cars at similar price point.
Richo

Brett mate i think its your passion for blue which is clouding your judgement. Had an AU as a company car mate and i hated every last second of the experience. Sorry, but your just wrong. Ford was behind untill the BA came along, and then it was significantly ahead of the VY and VZ of the time. Then the VE came along and significantly bettered the BF, then the FG came along and in turn bettered the VE. Then the VF came along and….? We’ll see

My judgement isn’t coulded buddy, sorry this is just the way it was. And the AU’s overly contemporary styling? Come on mate it was a horrible design, and for such a contemporary design it dated within minutes of its launch. Right now in 2008, sit an AU falcon in good nick next to a VT commodore in good nick and today, just as it was back in 1998, there is no contest. The VT as a design has aged very well, the AU has aged even worse then it looked
http://realcars realcars

If ford had a injected egas option I believe they wouldn’t be able to make enough of them especially if they got the message out. How hard can it be as after market already do this.i6 is virtually indestructible anyway and combine with six speed auto would be cheaper to run than a Prius and would get Toyota on the hop as they don’t have LPG compatible engines at present.
http://realcars realcars

Imagine an injected dedicated egas opt for Territory!!!

Would make Klugger look like a joke.LOL.
http://realcars realcars

Au2 looks good with nice wheels and spoiler to lift the rear up a bit.Forte was a good call as they do look very strong.

Don’t like the xr6/xr8 fronts though.
Duck

Agreed Richo. The VT was better than the AU and Brett even non-blue V red people can say that. It was a fact and still is. It was not just a better looking car, but the interior, handling etc. were better. And back to the styling how many times did ford change the look on the AU’s grill? Heaps and it made it still made it ugly or uglier. And how about the ugly looking headlights on the XR6′s and XR8′s? YUK! And Holden Brang the VX (just to refreshen the VT) out in 2000 and made it better than the outgoing VT, which means it was better again over the AU.

Hey I can say the BA was easily better over the VY and you can say the same that the VT/VX was/is better than the AU. Hey the AU nearly killed the falcon.
Bret

Richo,
I had the reverse. VT company car – what a dissapointment compared to an AUII.

And styling, you have got to be kidding, the VT was dated when launched and went backward very quickly.

Remember the basic AU shape lasted all the way to BF.

And the trouble with your comparison is that you will struggle very hard to find a VT in “good nick” today, whereas the AU’s have aged extremely well – better quality build you see!
The Axe

All those who claim say that Aurion/Commodore wheren’t tested for the side impact test, all that it would have gotten them is 2 points. Falcon scored 4.6points more than Aurion and 7.1 more than Commodore. Bit more humble pie for ya…

Crash Mode FG Falcon VE Commodore Toyota Aurion
Offset frontal 14.6 11.5 13.6
Side impact 16.0 15.0 15.4
Bonus points 2.0 1.0 1.0
Pole test 2.0 Not eligible Not tested
Combined 34.6 27.5 30.0
Star rating 5 stars 4 stars 4 stars
Source: ANCAP, August 2008
Bret

Duck,
AU grill was never changed. Different levels had different grills.
Only changes were AU to AUII.

And to your other points, the key areas that the AU was better than the VT were INTERIOR & HANDLING. Thanks for proving you have no real world experience or idea on the subject.
Duck

^mmmmmmmmmmm. You have to be carefull what you say because I know a lot of people with their VT interior in good shape, perfect. Though the only problem I have heard is the fabric on the seats sorta have ripples in it, if you know what I mean. Though that hasn’t happened to my VT.
Duck

Sorry, did I forget to mention the blokes AU I drove had a Power steering Pump leak, so that may have been why it was not that good sorry. So I take what you said and I do believe the AU had better steering. Sorry, forgive me. But like I’ve said I know alot of good VT’s interior thats pretty good. Even the layout and door handles were better inside.

Though I do know from fact that the AU didn’t have Power Steering Pump leaks so someting might have happed to it obviosoly.
Bret

Duck,
Falcon achillies heel has always been power steering leaks – crap 3rd party product.
Anyway I believe finaly fixed with new system in FG.
(Wish I could put a smily face here)
Andrew M

the people that dog the AU obviously dont know what they were talking about.
the AU had better motor and gear box, better handling etc etc etc.
the only thing was that the VT had more conservative styling that struck a better balalce with the public.

the AU11 how ever absolutely creamed over the VT.
the AU11 had slightly better styling when the changed the grill (over the first series), bonnet, boot and rear tail lights to name a few majors.

Richo,
find me a review where it says the VE significantly bettered the BF11…….
the BF still had better motor and gearbox (like the falcon has had for decades)
the VE marginally bettered the FG in the handling stakes. that was the main difference.
the quality of the VE interior is heavily critisised, so i dont see a win to the VE there either.

holden build cars for fans, and engineering comes second

Duck,
and you better watch what you say because ive seen plenty of AU’s with interiors in good nick
Richo

Andrew you keep saying this “holden builds cars for fans” stuff but what exactly is wrong with that? I would have thought that ALL car companies design cars to appeal specifically to their target market… i mean that just makes sense doesn’t it? I mean do you really think there would be an XR6T if it wasn’t for the “fans” who would buy it? The average family car buyer doesn’t buy a turbo model, the fleet buyer definetly doesn’t! So that leaves on the fans doesn’t it? Hmm…

No one is trying to say that the VE is a better car then the FG, i think everyone accepts the FG is superior, but lets give credit where its due. Like them or not commodore has dominated the large car market for a very long time while falcon has been slipping in comparison to the commodore for a very long time.. now there just HAS to be a reason for that. If thats because holden builds cars for “fans” then shit mate who can argue with their logic given the runs on the board!
Richo

companies don’t survive on public sentiment, they survive on sales, which is the reason why holden has been (the only) GM outpost for quite a while now that is financially stable, even despite recent losses which where mainly due to development costs and where fully anticipated. This year, with VE’s development out of the way, holden are scheduled to break even, ford aus ofcourse aren’t due to the FG’s development costs. Case of bad timing with the issues BOTH parent companies are facing in the US
Adam (aka Mada)

Richo…

Get your info correct.

The falcon has lost less share than the commodore over the last 5 years.

Holdens marketing is far superior than Fords.

The better vehicle does not always sell better.

take a look at last months sales figures and if you add all of Fords locally build and locally sold products they are only a couple of hundred behind Holden.

The big difference between the two is Holden has a much bigger LHD export markets, besides that Ford actually sells as much as Holden locally.

Also, take a look at Ford and Holdens’ overall market share YTD, Ford is up while Holden is down, Holden is only 14,000 odd units ahead of ford while this time last year the gap was 24,000 units.

You were saying?
realcars

Seen a FG Galcon xt in a lot yesterday next to one of the work sites I visit and the dealer had Honda Euros parked next to it.

The fg had a big window sticker with 36990 on it plus orc.

I couldn’t help but think that potential buyers would overlook the base fg and go straight for the Euro.
The base FG has no bling about it whatsoever.
This is despite the bigger engine,safety,comfort,etc

Prob is with the fg u need to sped at least 10k more than this to get a car that actually looks new.

Ford need to dress the base model up if they are serious.
Looks are everything to most buyers especially buying new.
Bret

Realcars,
I know of one joint dealership, what part of the world did you see that?
boss

i have an au XR8,HO RAM INJECTION, and personaly have had absolutely no probs with the old girl.it has never given mechanical problems, the steering and suspension has remained tight, and the paint and interior has worn very well, even being a family daily driver.
the styling of the au was a little over done, but it is a great car overall, and an absolute blast to drive even by todays standards.
the competitive nature of holden and ford will always see 1 bettering the other.
the fact of the matter is both companys make a terrific product, it all comes down to personal choice by the consumer.