Congrats for Ford who are too backwards to establish any real range in SUV’s. Territory is only a meek effort and people can see its old……not updated……bland when lined up with a Toyota! Ford should run a business and have a range of cars instead of tired old designs devoid of major style! No wonder Toyota sell well…….updates and nail the look and features whilst opposition are idle in this area!

What about the Holden Captiva? I guess it’s not worth looking though.

Terry, im not gona get into a big thing about which ones better Toyota/Ford (I think they are both horribly ugly) but you talk like the new Territory is just around the corner but last time I heard, its still about three or four years until Australia gets a new Territory. Also, I know that the Kluger doesnt have a Diesel option anyway but I think it was stupid and irresposible of Ford to make a FPV model instead of fitting a nice economical diesel. Apart from anything, I dont care how good/bad the FPV one is but if your gonna show off with a flashy in-your-face performance SUV, why would you want to be seen in a Ford thats marketed for families? Its like driving around with the roof down in a Vauxhall Astra Convertible. Do you really want to advertise that this is the best convertible you can afford?

The territory is superior to the kluger because it is AWD and RWD instead of FWD. The best softroader SUVs are the Landrover Freelander, Subaru Forester, Suzuki grand Vitara and Ford Territory. They all have fulltime AWD/4WD.

The others are crap due to their FWD and FWD based 4WD. FWD combined with the top heaviness of softroaders makes a very poor handling vehicle which is a bloody crap drive.

Lazybones……Yes thats right..Toyota Kluger copied the Territory in making it 2wd or AWD……..too bad they didnt make it rear wheel drive so it was nice to drive and good to tow with like a Territory.
You also said “if you want good ride and handling by a sports car” well you definatley havent driven a Territory as they handle and ride much better than alot of cars do !! And no.Territory isnt Fords answer to the X5 but because it is so good to drive the comparison has been made.

So Terry, Toyota copied the Territory by making it available in 2wd or 4wd? Big deal… since the first generation Kluger/Highlander has been available in other markets since 2001 I would say that Ford copied the Toyota concept. Perhaps you could even say that Ford copied Nissan who made a version of the Patrol wagon for some markets during the 1990′s that was rear wheel drive only. At the end of the day the Territory is still a good vehicle, its just that today the competion has improved and the territory is off the pace. The design is 4 years old and hasnt changed cosmetically in that time.

Driven both a Territory and a Kluger. The Kluger was far, far a head of the Terriroty. The Territory engine was lifeless, the car rattled like a babies toy and tell me, why does EVERY model have non-colour coded plastic door handles? Talk about cost cutting!!

Subaru did not invent the formula. Go look at landrover and jeep histories. Daimler-benz had four wheel drive passenger wagons back in the 30′s also.

we all know about those Toyota quality surveys………lol

Terry Says:
“we all know about those Toyota quality surveys………lol”

No, show us some? But we all know Toyota Tops all the quality survey conducted by reputable 3rd party agencies.

Terry Says:
“If you can read properly I said that Toyota copied the idea of making the Klunker available in AWD or 2WD”

That’s just fcking stupid!!

Go Prius I checked out the survey, on drive.com and all the results were as expected!!

Also notice how the above article “SUV sales soar despite fuel costs” does not apply to the territory, since it’s sales have actually declined

Ofcoursem the simple minded wheelnut has to point out the obvious. Ford territory would not score a mention of this type outside of the *.au domain!!

Oh what a rollover!

Toyota Kluger AWD rolls over during basic ESP test. In the process becoming the first car to rollover in 45 years of Wheels COTY testing.

The Toyota was widely criticised (as have Toyota’s in general for several years) for the poor handling and ‘sub-standard’ ESP or DVC as Toyota calls it.

If you are thinking about buying a Kluger, please consider otherwise, you and your families SAFETY are at potentially SERIOUS risk.

Wheels has asked Toyota to ‘urgently’ update their VDC.

Toyota were given right of reply and countered by saying
effectively the test wasn’t conducted to ISO standards. Well, the real world isn’t a laboratory. Is it?!

Vehicles with much better handling AND stability control systems are BMW X5, Ford Territory, Mazda CX7 and CX9, Landrover Freelander, Subaru Forester, Suzuki grand Vitara.

And that stuff about Topgear talking up the kluger is a lie as they dont sell them in the UK.

ive had a KXR 2wd kluger for 3 weeks since brand new. when it was 5 days old the display came up with a VSC fault and ABS fault and engine management system fault. not happy. had 300k on clock. took it in to dealer, which i wish i could name, and they reset it and without even a road test gave it back to me. sure enough 2k down the road the fault is back on. booked in again, told it needs a new computer. takes 10 days to get part in ” GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE” . so today the comp was replaced but sure enough, although this time it lasted 10k, but the error is back. so now ive left this car at the adelaide dealer untill they get it right. so are klugers lemons??????? or is this a 1 off thing and this particular adelaide dealer is incompentent????????????????

“Lazybones – no SUV handles like a car, they are SUV’s not cars.”

I Agree, hence my earlier point to Big Jim. I think the newer breed of SUV’s do handle like an average car. By that i mean really average. I think Terry is a tad delirious in his assement of the Territory vs Normal car handling.

But if you want a decent ride and sharp handling then an SUV is not for you. What a joke “SUV”, nothing sporty about taking the kids to school

Lazybones,
I’m not a big fan of soft-roaders myself. But I don’t think the “SPORT” in SPORT Utility Vehicles does not ment to place them on a race track!! But Offroading, and camping is a sport too, also you can utilize the space for sporting utilities, such as diving equipment, etc… Also you can easily tow a jet-ski, and a boat, etc…

I guess Tomas would know ALL about soft off-roaders owning a Prado!

Talking of Chevs saw an 80 series yesterday with one in it!

Also know a guy in Tassie that has a mud-runner,a land cruiser with a Chev in it,only way to get it moving fast enough when your racing !

Tomas79……..unlike you I actually know about cars and I drive the best car in the country……….FG XR6 Turbo and one of the best utes in the country, AU series 3 XR6 so dont tell me I know nothing about cars. Reliable, comfortable, rugged, great to drive, great economy on petrol and gas (ute) and will last forever, unlike your re-cycled coke can Toyota crap !!!!!! As you know Australia has an ageing population and they buy Toyotas because it is JUST a car and Toyota give them away at ridiculous prices to boost their sales figures……thats a well known fact.

Dingo says “WHEELS despite thier so called expertise failed miserably to indentify they had exceeded the envelope of the Kluger”

Well Dingo I thought thats what the job of the ESP was. To keep a car controllable once past its dynamic limit. It is suppose to keep a vehicle controllable when usually the vehicle would go out of controll. According to the Wheels driver the ESP system actually attributed to the roll over by not allowing the driver to recover. If you have even driven a car with a decent ESP you’ll know that once the vehicle gets a little sideways it will use the brakes on each individual corner to straighten itself up. Obviously the ESP in the Klugar did not straighten up like it should.

Well Kenny I think you take the prize for the most ridiculous comment made on CA. Kenny said “In terms of handling the SUVs r far better than the large rear wheel falcordores”

Ok another point a PETROL Pajero or Prado is far worse on fuel than a Territory. Average Fuel on AWD TX Territory mostly urban cycle is around 14-15l/100km. Petrol V6 Pajero 17-18l/100km, Prado 17-19/100km. These are figures from customers of the car yard I used to work at. I always asked because potential customers would ask me when looking at cars. The customers were in their late 40′s-mid 50′s and said they mostly drove it around newcastle. It makes sense considering the Territory is a tad lighter than the other 2 because it doesn’t need the heavy duty suspension of the off-roaders. If you were talking about the diesel’s then yes you are correct but definately not the petrol variants.

The reason the Territory sold well is because the majority of people who bought an SUV never ever considered it to be taken off-road. So Ford made the Territory more like a highrise stationwagon than a 4X4. It gave the driver the higher seating position but the handling of a passenger car. Plus the interior design was great for people with children. At the time there was no other SUV like that until the Klugar, Captiva & the larger Forrester came along.

Kenny you truly have not driven a Pajero.. They make a Ford territory seem some what closer to a corolla in terms of fuel economy comparison..

As far as fuel consumption goes, my d4d diesel prado gets about 8.0l/100km on the free way, and 10 in the city. And according to the pradopoint forum, realistic fuel consumption on the petrol is about 14-16.

El Aspid is just so cool – i am counting down the days til i get mine

Any car purchase can end in tears or worse. That is precisely why you should aim to purchase the safest car you can, with the primary aim, avoiding the accident in the first place. For this you need dynamic ability.

The problem is, the ESP system is meant to aid drivers with inadequate ability and or in a sticky situation. Many drivers don’t have a clue, don’t pay attention, have little idea of the capabilities of the vehicle and consequently on occasion overdrive. Which is why 30% of deaths are single vehicle rollovers.

The following is from Bulmer’s Wheels COTY article.

“The rolloever is an unenviable first for Wheels COTY and for me. And, while more than happy to shoulder responsibility for overdriving, on this occasion I believe that deficiencies in the Kluger’s ESP contributed to this crash, which is why you are reading about it here.”

“Importantly, I am not alone in my criticism of the Kluger’s dynamics. Six other jusdges, all of whom had driven both Klugers before my crash, noted that the cars’ ESP performance was sub-standard.”

“It’s telling that there were similar criticisms of the ESP performance of the Lexus LS this year, while last year the Toyota Aurion took flak for it’s lack of ability in this area, as did the Lexus RX330 in 2003.”

The simple facts are. All of the cars were overdriven. Of the 46 variants based on 20 all new models, 45 passed the same test. Just one, the Toyota Kluger rolled.

The scary thing is, more and more people (housewives, accountants etc…) get into these SUVs with 200 killer wasps and poor handling and think that they go so much better than their old Corolla, that they must handle so much better too. Give these clowns more power and higher driving poisition with better visability, and they drive it so aggressively. People should have to sit an additional test when getting their licence to allow them to drive SUVs. If i had to get another licence to ride my bike on the same road, surely we should make drivers of SUVs sit say, an additional 30 minute test in a SUV. Obviously it would be a nightmare to go and do this retrospectively, but maybe something for new drivers.

Also, my company car probably sees more off road action than the majority of the soft-roaders listed above.

PLEASE NOTE: My comments are not directed at any make/makes in particular.

“Lazybones,
I’m not a big fan of soft-roaders myself. But I don’t think the “SPORT” in SPORT Utility Vehicles does not ment to place them on a race track!! But Offroading, and camping is a sport too, also you can utilize the space for sporting utilities, such as diving equipment, etc… Also you can easily tow a jet-ski, and a boat, etc… ”

Yes your right, but at what point did I say an SUV is a track bred sports car?? Your confusing me with Terry. I’ve been saying just the opposite!! My point is that its just a replacement for the old Wagon!! End of story, look at the Kluger in the picture above, pictured in the snow, oooohhhhhh. It would be more real world to picture it in Safeways/Bunnings car park or outside a school. I took my RAV 4 to the snow last week for the first time in its 2 year life. But seriously do you think many SUV owners actually use it for more sports releated things than domestic duties!!! Nope, I own because i need it for my family duties. It should be DWFSR (Domestic Wagon For School Runs) not SUV

“Lazybones – there is a whole lot more to motoring then just handling. People like yourself are so fixated on handling alone that the multitude of other facets that create motoring is completely ignored or forgotton about

No….Mummy make him stop…its can’t be true…I will have my 2 seater mid engined sports car when the kids grow up!!!! arrrhhhhggggg…..

Totally agree with Lazybones,todays so called SUVs are nothing more than wagons with lift kits,and women still cant drive them any better than the Camry Wagon they stepped out of!

oooooooo Lazybones………Poor baby the day will come when the kids leave and you can get that sports car,Dingo just doesn’t understand car enthusiasts requirements in cars “handling”,he likes us to remember the other facets of motoring such as reliability ,much better to have than driving a sponge!

Tomas79
If you really would like a Toyota Tundra there are thousands of them they can’t sell in the US and Toyota is cutting production. They are sitting in the car yards for an average of 100 days (Detroit News On Line -2/08/08).

Grumble grumble grumble,just about to go wash the M3 and again I have sit Tomas down in the corner and shake my finger at him!

The point is Tomas handling IS one of the attributes required when you buy a car to enjoy! One I guess you wouldn’t have gotten get as you drive a Prado with a lift kit!

Not all of us have to put a good handling car around a track day to enjoy it,the pure pleasure of driving a long hard cornering drive is how well something drives without feeling like a Sydney Ferry . Pushing a car hard in to a corner fast without a twitch coming from its chassis is one of the most pleasurable things one can do on a Sunday arvo.

”Quote If you could derive a numerical value for the handling of a car, (and you never will be, because it all is objective) you would have seen that Lexus blows all over BMW, and Toyota over GM and FORD also!”"

hahaha thats gold Tomas ,BMW have some of the best chassis in the world,Lexus can only wish to be as good one day,any jero will tell you that the Chassis under a M3 will outdo the new try hard M3 beater,Lexus IS-F .As far as Toyota out doing GM and Ford ,yeah right,I love to see the TRD try nailing an F6 in handling or performance for that matter.

Love a Morgan ,naaaaaaaaa,but would an Aston they too are renown for being unreliable,care factor,zero!

Glen, I went by ADR figures according to ADR combined figures the Pajero GLX consumes 13.5 L per 100 km, Prado GXL 13.1L per 100 kms, while Territory TS 12.8 L per 100 kms, under a liter difference. The kerb weight of the three cars are Pajero 2085kg, Prado 2110kg & Territory 2080kg. There is no point in comparing the 2WD Territory to the 4WD Prado & Pajero. From these figures I’d rather buy a real, reliable SUV like the Prado.

Jetski is an idiot a Territory consumes twice as much as a corolla ( a Corolla consumes 6L per 100kms).

Then compare it to a AWD Kluger which consumes 11.0L per 100 km and the kerb weight is 1920kg

Handling mightn’t be important to you Tomas But I’d Love to see you try to drive from one side of Australia to the other without having to negotiate a corner let alone sweeping bend [Blue Mountains] at speed as the majority of are highways

Sure you can hit the brakes to slow down and take the corner at a more pedestrian speed [at or below 60Km/h] but then you would be putting an enormous strain on the chassis the brakes the steering and suspension as the car tries to wipe off all the terminal velocity you created by driving at 100Km/h..

Its much more efficient and easier on the car to keep the momentum going change gears and float through the corner that way there is less abrupt braking or heavy acceleration required thats why car enthusiasts look for the apex

Remember there are no perfectly dead straight lines in nature as curves are more flowing and keep the energy moving

Having said that a Soft Roader like the Kluger isn’t exaclty a Performance Car or to be driven at high speeds [100Km/h+]; whereas a BMW M3 is.. and are therefore; engineered differently.

Other factors that can effect a cars performance are its height width track and wheelbase

Go Klugger SPOT ON as Always!!

Wheelnut Says: “You can actually put a figure on the handling of a car infact their are a number of measurements used all of which give an indication as to how well a car perfoms and handles.. The main ones are G-Forces n Drag Co-Efficient oh and of course the Power to Weight Ratio all of which integral parts of Physics and Automotive Desig/Engineering “

True, but it is impossible to combine all these characteristics into a single value without being objective. As in to show that car A has 2.34 units better handling then car B.
So it’s all horse for courses!!

Jetski Says:” The Ford Territory has been the bench mark as far as how drive dynamics associate with SUV’s.Every auto Jurno.. will tell you the same shit moron.Grow up and give credit where its due.And as Far as I know from a good source, the new territory will leave Toyota for dead.. “
Well why is Ford Territory the only SUV, in the above article to have dropped in sales by nearly 20%, while all the others have actually increased in sales??! And before you start blaming the age of the vehicle, note that the number one selling Toyota Prado (LC120) has been sold in Australia, virtually unchanged (apart from the D4D diesel ) since 2003, a year before the territory has been released. Of course the Australian public aren’t going to be suckered into spending their hard earned on a shoddy built car, with a substandard reliability ( with reference to the drive.com.au’s, leaked report).
As for swerving to avoid roos, all the 4wd magazines I’m subscribed to state, that it is far safer to actually hit the animal, then to swerve to avoid it.Cruel it might be, but it still is the safer option!! Off course, it’s better for you if drive a full size 4wd with a bulbar, then a road car, or a small cross over. But better yet, it’s common sense to drive at a reasonable speed for that area, so you have enough time to react and stop, as threat becomes visible!!

Tomas It is possible to combine all those characteristics into one value… Its called setting a Lap Time.

Because if the car is engineered and set up properly with the right amount of drive grip and able to deliver the right amount of power when its needed as well as have the stopping power to match.. it will be able to perform and handle far better than its counterparts.

I realise that there are those who arent interested in lap times or 0-100 times etc However by doing a couple of laps at reasonably high speed in a controlled environment around a track with a mixture of undulations off-camber corners hairpins and sweeping bends you are able to get a better indication as to what you and your car are capable of compared to another car.. not to mention where its and your short cumings are..

After all u wouldn’t tow a medium or larger van with a Camry so how could u expect a Kluger to accomplish the job given the shared platform and identical tow ball weights.

Thats it Realcars seems the grey nomads are also responsible for buying the rest in the Toyota range too!

That may well be the case BM but u have to go Landcruiser or Prado for a decent tow vehicle in the Toyota range.

Territory possibly still comes up triumphs compared to Prado despite the full chassis of the Prado i.e light truck construction but overall I believe Territory would be easier to live with i.e more car like to drive. Driving a truck soon gets pretty boring.LOL.

They should call the Kluger the SUV u have when your not having an SUV.LOL.

Agree with that, Landcruiser the pick in them. Prado is more suitable for the in a city dirt road drive on the weekend.Having owned a couple of Landcruisers bought for carrying excess children {better alternative than a Tarago back in the mid 90s} and towing, both were great vehicles in what they were purchased for! Luckly we also had a few GTs to turn to on the weekend when need a little excitement hehehe!

Wheelnut Says:
“Tomas it is possible to combine all those characteristics into one value… Its called setting a Lap Time.”

Wheelnut, once again there is too many factors effecting a laptime, to attribute it’s value purely to the handling of the vehicle. E.g power of the car, power delivery, tyre pressure, tyre type, weather, the experience of the driver on the track,etc… not to mention some tracks will favour some cars better then others.

Bavarian Missile Says: “Thats it Realcars seems the grey nomads are also responsible for buying the rest in the Toyota range too! “

In other words “Toyota; the wise mans choice!!”
Realcars, if the Territory is such a great car, how come it’s the only SUV above that has declined in sales by 20% since last year, againts it’s significantly older competition?Also how come it stinks so much on the leaked quality report?!!
Bavarian Missile Says: “Agree with that, Landcruiser the pick in them. Prado is more suitable for the in a city dirt road drive on the weekend.”

Come on, it’s not like you know enough about 4wds to tell the difference, let alone pick what one is suited for what!! By the way, the Prado is a Landcruiser 120!!

Bavarian Missile Says: “Having owned a couple of Landcruisers bought for carrying excess children”
What a hypocrite, and you been going on about turag tractor types for weeks!!

Just telling it the way it is in relation to towing Thomas69!

Kluger hasn’t the tow ball weight spec to handle more than a smallish camper trailer.

Another correction the Prado is actually based on the Hilux!
not the Landcruiser which is an entirely different animal.

Remember Prado should be really named Hilux Prado rather than Landcruiser Prado.

Sadly another Toyota marketing exercise to make u believe u are driving with the big boys.LOL.

To those who suggested special licences for 300kw utes, 4x4s, vans etc…. I agree whole heartedly. How hard would it be to sit a commercial vehicle test/ 4×4 – soft roader test/ performance car test….? Sure the things you learn and perform in a test might be lost after 10 years, but if you have only ever driven auto corollas, then you shouldnt be allowed to jump into a patrol/prado/cruiser or a GT3/C63AMG/M3/W427/F6/ TRD Aurion (hahaha)……..

At the end of the day, its not going to happen.

I’m all for extra licensing (preferably a 4wd course) for 4wd, and higher power/usual vehicles!!

Hey Go Kluger,
Just got myself a copy of the Top Gear Australia magazine.
They say that the BMW 7 series has knocked of the lexus LS design!!

Sorry to shatter the web of deception weaved by Toyota THoma69 but the Prado is based on the Hilux chassis,floorpan and running gear.

As I have already mentioned Hilux Prado is the accurate name plate rather than Landcruiser Prado as the Prado shares nothing in common with Landcruiser other than a name.

If your local Toyota mechanic tells u otherwise u better look elsewhere for service.LOL.

Unfortunately many people don’t learn about Tow ball weight until they buy their Kluger and try and marry it up with a decent size van!

If dimpled rear quarter panels on your new Kluger don’t worry u then go ahead.LOL. Oh what a feeling!

Thomas69 do u feel ripped off that u now know u are driving a Hilux derivative?

The French contributed to styling only of the Hilux Prado.

Who else could have come up with that Gaudy chrome grill?LOL.

Might be all new body panels and all new in the sense that it is based on the current generation Hilux rather than the previous one but it is essentially a Hilux and not a Landcruiser in any sense as the tittle would suggest.

Sorry to rain on your parade anyway Hilux isn’t all that bad is it?LOL.

U done your research that well that u bought a Hilux Prado.LoL.

U listened to dopey salesman and the Toyota spin like most gullible fools.

P.S I am not the one that paid 65k for a Hilux.LOL.

Realcars, you are the idiot that paid 5K for a AU ute!!

I know a lot about Toyota Thomas69 that is why I wouldn’t currently buy one.

Seriously, Realcars read up on hilux and Prado’s when you get a chance!! So you don’t embarrass yourself so bad!!

I’ve only had two cab/savs tonight I swear!

That’s right keep telling yourself it’s a Landcruiser and when u wake up tomorrow it will all seem just like a bad dream.LOL.

U must be right why else would they call it a Landcruiser.LOL.

Realcars, entertain me What doesn’t it make it a 120 series landcruiser?

Better yet,
Grow some balls, and join the forum and post the pics up of your rust bucket. I’ll happily discuss it there.
Better then flooding the unrelated blog here!

Anyway, I’m off for the day,
Lucky your on here, if you said that to me in real life, you’d be lying on the floor right now, all massed up, coughing out your teeth!!

I doubt that very much.LOL.

Yeah,I was looking for an Egas RTV but the Egas version hardly come up for sale. So cheap to run people must hang on to them.

About resale u pay a lot for a 4×4 hilux new in the first place.

Watto_cobra, don’t get your panties in a knot!!
I don’t do threats, if this real life, it would be more case of a “I was watching the ant crawl across the table, while realcars massed himself up…” heheheh

The Kluger is based on a very outdated platfrom. It is the same platform that the Aurion\Camry (same thing) is on. It is outdated and is why those cars come nowhere near other makes in regard to road-holding and handling. It is also why Toyotas are boring and bland to drive……

Toyota bring out a “new” model but really its just a re-hash of old ones………. they put an Aurion badge on a Camry and call it a new car !!!!!! what a joke!!!!

With the current rush for small cars Toyota are doing well but it wont last………..

Realcars, sorry but you are wrong the Prado is not a Hilux derivative. End of story.
Big Jim, if you think the Grand Vitara has superior on road dynamics to an X trail or Rav4 you must have a strange idea of what good handling is. While i would agree the suzuki is superior off road that doesn’t make it better on road. And i have done more in these than just hire one. The Forester certainly is one of the better on road handlers, but its low clearance does limit its off road ability. As for the Freelander… i just hope the new model is more reliable than the old one. Theres a joke in the motor industry about the base model freeladers being worth more than the upscale models because theres less bits to fix on them.

I’m surprised the Honda CRV didn’t make it to this list, I see them all the time when I’m out on the roads!

After owning a Territory AWD 6 speed auto for 12 months now,and travel 34 k`s a day on dirt roads, and having owned several Jap soft off roaders, i feel convinced that Aussie soft roaders designed for Aussie conditions, although a cliche, is the only way to go and the Japs still need to do a lot of work on theyre traction control systems,vehicle stability controls and brake distribtution systems.I admit that these systems take away the common sense factor of driving but i can clarify 1 point.In the Ford, They DO WORK!!!

I must admit I am somewhat biased, having witnessed a neighbour roll her Nissan X-trail at about 50kph trying to avoid a dog which ran onto the road.

Prado is only a Prado in australia, and maybe parts of the asian pacific!!! In europe it’s land cruiser, and land cruiser 100 / landcruiser 200 series are referred to as Landcruiser V8, or landcruiser amazon (and other variations depending on the country you are in)!!
At the moment in australia, you can buy Landcruiser 70,76,79,120,200.
And there is still a lot of landcruiser 40′s,60,90′s,100,105s around.
If i want to look international for parts, to mod my prado, i dont look for prado’s, i look for LC120!!

But like i said, it’s only a name!!

subaru did in fact produce the first SOFT ROADERS! as all the 4wd wagons previous to that were big heavy 4wd trucks, not actually based of a car or car chassis, hence the word soft roader because they dont have a separate chassis, so the original 4wd leonie wagons in the seventies were the first official soft roader suv,s and everyone else has copied this formula from subaru…

the service centre still has my car and no closer to fixxing problem. im getting worried about the long term reliability of the vehicle due to the fault finding, there pulling the car apart, wiring looms etc to find the electrical fault causing EMS VSC ABS faults.i wonder how long i gotta wait to get kluger back. its fast becoming a regrettable purchase.