Large Car Comparison (Ford-Holden-Honda-Toyota)

By Paul Maric | July 25th, 2008

6-cylinder Luxury Large Car Showdown – Ford vs. Holden vs. Honda vs. Toyota

2008 FG Ford Falcon G6E vs. Holden Calais V6 vs. Honda Accord V6 Luxury vs. Toyota Aurion Presara

Model tested: 2008 Ford Falcon G6E Recommended Retail Price: $46,990. Options fitted: None fitted.

Handling; engine and gearbox; rear leg room; price point

Non-flat boot floor; no xenon headlights

CarAdvice rating: (4.25)

Model tested: 2008 Holden Commodore Calais V6 Recommended Retail Price: $46,190 Options fitted: Metallic paint ($400).

Space, standard ESP, solid ride

No Sat/Nav or reversing camera, ‘poverty’ interior

CarAdvice rating: (3.00)

Model tested: 2008 Honda Accord V6 Luxury Recommended Retail Price: $46,990. Options fitted: None fitted.

Impressive handling; size; features

Sometimes heavy on fuel, too many buttons on centre console

CarAdvice rating: (4.15)

Model tested: 2008 Toyota Aurion Presara Recommended Retail Price: $49,490. Options fitted: None fitted.

Performance, plenty of luxury items, good safety equipment

Stodgy handling, generic interior styling, pricey

CarAdvice rating: (3.50)

- Review by Paul Maric, David Twomey and Matt Brogan, photography by Paul Maric.

Introduction:

In this day and age it is becoming increasingly difficult for car manufacturers to meet the demands of consumers. With petrol prices continually skyrocketing, pressure is on manufacturers to make fuel efficient cars, while still catering for size and performance.

In the first test of its kind in Australia, CarAdvice has pegged the rear-wheel-drive Falcon and Commodore against their Japanese front-wheel-drive rivals, the Accord V6 and Aurion.

The luxury variants chosen here will be popular amongst professionals and families with a luxury cruiser in mind.

After a week of extensive testing ranging from city driving to performance tests, we have determined a winner. The results are close but paint a clear picture of the current large car market in Australia.

Next page…

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Ford Falcon G6E – Paul Maric:

The highly anticipated FG Falcon is here and what better way to put it through its paces. Lined up against every other conceivable competitor in this segment, there was no doubting a useful challenge.Just several thousand dollars separated the four competitors, with the Falcon G6E and Accord V6 Luxury costing an equal $46,990.

There is a massive step up in terms of interior fit and finish with the new Falcon. Although the BFII wasn’t all that shabby, the FG derives a true feeling of European touring. The controls are simple and easy to comprehend, while the high mounted LCD screen offers a variety of display options.

As a technology buff, I headed straight for the Falcon’s settings menu where I found an absolute myriad of options. Everything from lane change indicators through to the audible alarm note could be adjusted from the G6E’s menu system. It was far more advanced than the Holden unit and certainly miles ahead of the Accord’s somewhat confusing system.

Full iPod integration was another technical highlight. The system not only charges your iPod when connected, it allows you to browse through folders and subfolders via the central screen. A reversing camera was also standard and with an ultra wide angle lens and high resolution, it worked very well, certainly the pick of the bunch.

Although the display side of things was good, the sound system was below average in comparison to the Accord and Aurion. There was a sub-woofer fitted but the panels surrounding the sub-woofer rattled constantly when the audio level was increased.

The Falcon’s seats were the best on offer from the four contenders. They were extremely comfortable for long distance driving and offered adequate side support whilst cornering. The driving position was also impressive. It was slung low enough for enthusiastic driving, while also being high enough to see over the front of the car.

The most impressive aspect of the Falcon was the drive. Mated to the 195kW, inline six-cylinder engine is ZF Sach’s renowned six-speed automatic gearbox. This slick shifting unit works in absolute harmony with the Falcon’s 4.0-litre motor, transforming it into a world-class engine. It feels as good, if not better than any other naturally aspirated six-cylinder motor on offer from the Europeans.

There is unlimited urge from take off and plenty of torque surge as the revs rise. The shifts are very quick and always timed exactly where they need to be. The adaptive gearbox learns the driving style and reacts with precise timing and performance.

Steering through bends is met with a heavy-ish response. The weight isn’t overly exaggerated but is certainly prominent. The added weight also makes the steering quite accurate around the centre. At slower speeds it loosens up slightly also, allowing for ease of parking and tight manoeuvres.

The car’s weight is noticeable, but no more noticeable than its three other competitors. It tracks nicely though corners and rolls in to a point where it stops and remains steady. It changes direction confidently too, the result of a well-tuned suspension and chassis package.

Brake feel is uniform and progressive, but quite touchy on first application. We didn’t experience any fade during testing too which was impressive.

Rear leg room, ingress and egress has been improved dramatically. This makes entry and exit from the second row of seats surprisingly easy and care free. The middle seat is quite comfy too. Two cup holders are on offer from the fold out section of the middle passenger seat.

The G6E’s standard features include: Dual zone climate control; power windows; power mirrors; central locking; trip computer; 8-speaker sound system with 6-stack CD player; leather interior; electric driver’s seat; 17″ alloy wheels; metallic paint; front fog lights; full iPod integration; auxiliary input; auto dimming rear vision mirror; automatic headlights and engine immobiliser.

Standard safety features include: Electronic stability control; ABS brakes with EBD and BA; driver and front passenger airbags; front side airbags and traction control.

It was disappointing to see a lack of Xenon headlights or even projector headlamps (like the Commodore). There was also no sign of automatic windscreen wipers or satellite navigation as standard fitment.

But, from what I’ve seen with the G6E during testing against its main rivals, Ford has set a new benchmark which will remain for some years to come. The level of refinement and the impressive drive have made the Falcon a desirable product once again. It’s such a shame this engine will be phased out for an American V6 in the not too distant future.

Holden Commodore Calais V6 – David Twomey:

The interesting thing about this comparison is acknowledging how quickly things change in the car industry and how rapidly Holden’s “billion-dollar baby” has slipped to a rather impoverished last position in this test.

That’s not to say that the Holden Calais V6 we tested isn’t a good car, it still offers all those basic criteria of the ‘big Aussie six’ but it just doesn’t have the technology, the glamour or the competence of the challengers.

As tested the Calais V6, with optional metallic paint, costs $46,190 which puts it right in the ball park with the other contenders, and although we had originally thought we would include the Calais V-series we decided that as that car was $8000 more expensive it wasn’t a proper competitor.

What’s hard to take, when you look at the competition, is the relative ‘poverty’ feel of the Calais interior.

There’s a mono-colour LCD screen with no Sat/Nav available, part leather upholstery – the rest offer full leather, and way too much dull, grey/black plastic for a car that is supposed to be almost at the top of the Commodore range.

Remember, to get rid of some of these criticisms you have to pay $8000 more than the smarter looking Falcon or Accord, and while the more expensive Aurion suffers from its Camry origins it still makes an attempt at luxury with full leather, some wood and a full-colour Sat/Nav screen.

The Calais was also the only car in our test not to have a reversing camera, making do with rear parking sensors and an alert display on the central screen.

Driving the Calais in comparison with the other three was also a revelation is change, the Holden mostly wallowed its way around corners and while the drive was good when you factored the vehicle’s weight, the steering and brakes weren’t anything to write home about.

Fuel economy is one of the VE range’s downsides and the Holden mostly trailed its main competitors – Ford and Toyota – when it came to fuel use.

The high-output 195kW V6 motor fitted to the Calais consumed 10.9-litres/100km during our extensive testing, which included a wide range of highway, city and country driving.

The five-speed automatic gearbox was always reasonably responsive, but too often seemed unsure about which gear it should be in, something that was drawn into sharp comparison by the Ford’s superbly managed ZF gearbox.

Standard features common to the Calais include: Six way power seat for driver and front passenger; leather wrapped steering wheel; cruise control; rear parking sensors; power mirrors; auto headlights; 6-stack CD-player with 9-speakers; dual zone climate control; power windows and central locking.

Safety features include: Dual stage front airbags; side impact airbags for driver and front passenger; side curtain airbags; active front seat head restraints; ABS brakes with EBD and BA; Electronic Stability Control and engine immobiliser.

All very commendable and the safety offerings are no less than you should expect these days, but they still mean that the VE range has only a four-Star ANCAP rating.

Holden fans won’t be happy with this outcome but the fact remains, the Calais is a very good car – if you don’t mind not having the best car available – and it will be the vehicle of choice for the legion of diehard Holden fans who will forgive its shortcomings to maintain their allegiance.

It does the job well, it’s expensive to run, and it’s quickly falling behind its later competitors –that’s the nature of the game- but we doubt Holden will leave it there and perhaps the Series Two car next year will address at least some of our criticisms.

Honda Accord V6 Luxury – Matt Brogan:

The Accord V6-L is Honda’s top shelf offering in the new CP range and boasts internal and external refinements well above that of the previous model, most notably cylinder deactivation technology on the 3.5-litre V6.

Simply put this system allows the engine to operate on six, four, or three cylinders, depending on how much effort is required, by withdrawing the spark from the unused cylinders. It works well, but you can certainly feel when the it kicks in – feeling similar to a smooth gearshift of an automatic gearbox met with a small ‘ECO’ light on the dash.

On all six cylinders the engine produces a class leading 202kW at 6200rpm and although a little lower on torque than Falcon with 339Nm at 5000rpm manages to maintain pace rather well on all but the largest of hills and offers reasonably strong pull from standstill.

The transmission is a silky smooth five-speed offering seamless shifts, well managed kick down timing and sports mode for sharper throttle response and quicker shifting (both up and down) on windy roads or when overtaking.

Fuel economy is claimed at 10.0 litres per 100km (ADR) and although this seems on par with the others on paper, real world figures are a little less complimentary with high 8.0L/100km recorded on highway cycle and 13.25L/100km around town. The Accord will run comfortably on regular unleaded but prefers the extra octane offerings, feeling sharper and more responsive on 95RON.

From the outset Accord is an attractive car, far more handsome than the predecessor, and possibly the most attractive in the group – though looks are subjective. It is also larger in proportion, which is noticeable from a space perspective, but not from a driver’s standpoint. We like this a lot.

Ride and handling compliment each other very well and the extra weight on board is not at all bothersome, even through more challenging sections of tight winding country roads.

Confident, almost eager handling characteristics are second only to Falcon, which has sharper turn in and better feedback. In all though it’s a reassuring and light-footed ride, which although not quite sharp, is certainly better than Presara’s understeer and although not quite as soft is less wallowy than Calais.

Confident braking with a precise and well weighted pedal mate perfectly to the cars proportions and offer stopping power that beat both Presara and Calais in both stopping distance and ability. The ABS is spot on and with EBA and EBD to assist driver input, safe stopping is well taken care of.

Continuing the safety theme Accord also offers standard ESP, front, side and curtain airbags, ISOFIX preparation for the kid’s seats and a four star EuroNCAP rating. Not a bad deal for the $46,990 asking price though I’d not settle for any thing less by today’s standards.

With impressive boot space and a generously capacious interior the only other thing left to consider are what you get for your money and how well the nitty gritty comes together.

Perhaps most obviously the dashboard seems to abound in buttons, which can seem a little cluttered and unnecessary with the appearance that there’s almost a button for each individual function – which is just about true.

The lay out can take some remembering and at first will require an “eyes off” approach which for drivers fresh to a new car is less than desirable. Once mastered though it’s of little consequence and pleasantly all functionality works incredible well and with a quality feel we’ve come to expect from Honda.

If the Accord had just a little more torque and pointed just a tad quicker at corners it would have come out on top, but as it stands the decision was almost unanimous that the honour went to Falcon.

Toyota Aurion Presara – David Twomey:

Toyota’s Aurion range certainly seeks to play with the big boys and it needs to be said from the start that while the Aurion Presara is the most expensive car in our foursome, it is also smaller than the others.

The feeling of compactness, this is after all a Camry bodyshell, is almost always noticeable and no amount of technology, equipment or refinement will ever make you think this is a trulylarge car.

That said the Toyota is a worthy competitor in this challenge, although one that falls short of the outright competence of the Falcon and the Accord, due in some part to the shortcomings already mentioned.

The Presara is a well-equipped luxury car, offering full-leather upholstery, electric adjustment for the seats, the usual wide range of Toyota luxury items inside, including a full-colour screen that provides a range of information about the car, plus Sat/Nav, a six-stacker CD and climate control air-conditioning.

There’s also front and rear parking sensors, Smart entry and push button start (same as Lexus – so you just need to have the key fob on your person and then hit the start button).

There’s also a host of safety features built into the car and these include; Vehicle Stability control, Traction Control, Anti-Lock Brake System, Electronic Brake Distribution and Brake Assist along Dual front, side and curtain airbags.
Steering is reasonably well weighted although it does feel a little remote and disconnected.

Timber accents dress up the car along with a tasteful blend of reasonable quality plastics, and the switchgear has a quality and function that is flawless. We also liked the Optitron instrument dials which are super bright and legible even in bright sunlight.

With 200kW and a respectable 336Nm of torque in a good-sized five-seater car, the Presara does measure up in the power stakes, no matter which way you dress it up. Its 5kW more than the G6E and the Calais and 2kW less than the Accord but more importantly, it weighs in at 1630kg which is significantly lighter than its rivals.

We doubt it’s something many Toyota owners do but seriously prodding the accelerator pedal won’t push you back in the seat as you might have expected with this much power, but it will get you from 0-100km/h in 6.75 seconds with some degree of urgency.

The muted response is due in part to the fairly average torque figure and the fact the full 336Nm is not available until you hit 4700rpm.

The Aurion’s six-speed automatic gearbox, with sequential shifting available, is smooth and responsive, although it does tend to hunt around a bit when trying to maintain a certain speed under load.

It’s a characteristic common to quite a few multi ratio gearboxes these days, and again, usually due to not enough torque available at some throttle points.

Steering is reasonably well weighted and brake pedal pressure is quite good despite using single piston callipers front and rear and there is a feast of brake assistance acronyms to pull this car up in the shortest possible distance in most conditions.

The Aurion can accommodate five adults, although for comfort we think two in the rear would be the limit, and there’s a tonne of storage space throughout the car with the usual cup holders and hidden compartments front and back.

Toyota has an enviable reputation for reliability and resale value, which is what sells a lot of its cars – rather than that special spark, and the Presara is no different.

If you want the steady reliable solid contender then the Toyota will be your choice, it just won’t have that special spark of excitement that is found in our top two choices.

She Says – Miranda Simpson:

Whilst all four vehicles in their own way typify the family sedan, and indeed share similarities, each is also distinctively different in its own right and offers differing driving dynamics which, for one or two candidates, can prove a little daunting.

All four are without doubt very spacious, they all accommodate the average family of four or five comfortably, and each has ample boot space. But it’s the little things that stack up when making decisions, and this is certainly true with these four cars.

Calais to me feels heavy, especially in the steering. The brakes take a little effort to apply and visibility both rearward and through the “A” pillar is awkward. Entering roundabouts can prove a little disconcerting as you have to move yourself around to get a line of sight happening and out the back window, for shorter people at least, can make parking difficult. The seats are very comfortable though and everything looks quite good but it is certainly no better than you’d expect, and a little plastic, which for me personally is a little bit of a let down -so fourth place.

The Presara drives reasonably well, is light enough to manage, has good visibility and has a bigger boot than I’d have thought possible making weekend shopping and family weekends a simple prospect. The amount of features on offer too is unexpectedly sufficient and I especially like the climate control switches on the steering wheel, but it’s about there that the warm fuzzy feelings stop. Most of the interior features look cheap, almost tacky in appearance, especially the dash and wooden steering wheel which is a little bit “cardigan set” for my liking, despite the exterior being really quite attractive – that’s third place.

Surprisingly the G6E was a lot easier to manage than I thought it would be and it drives really well. It’s very spacious, has a large boot and is very easy to get in and out of, especially when getting the kids in place. All the features are easy to operate and the layout is such that you don’t need to think about it or look for things, everything is just “there”. It looks really nice too, inside and out, and is a much more refined car than I remember Falcon ever having being. But despite all of this, it just feels very big, and a little overwhelming to live with day-to-day – so that’s second place.

Last, but definitely not least is the Honda. I felt extremely confident when driving this vehicle. It drives very well, so easy to steer, in fact you feel as though the car could simply drive itself. It’s good looking, spacious enough, and in fact I feel it’s bigger than you’d expect, and has a really large boot space. It has great visibility all round whilst driving, which really does make you feel a lot safer and more confident in driving it. The interior features can -at first – feel a little daunting for the technologically challenged, however once you learn to use them, they are extremely easy to operate and feel above average in quality and presentation – it’s the big first place, for me.

All of the vehicles, as I mentioned, are spacious and comfortable, and really are quite close to call. The Ford has a nice appearance, is spacious, but feels big and bulky which is a little off putting. The Toyota, whilst it is a nice vehicle, and offers plenty of room, definitely doesn’t feel as though you are getting anything extra special for what you are paying, which also rings true for the Holden.

While Calais looks great and has all you really need from a car I am put off by the heavy steering, and the value offered for the price, especially when you factor in the fuel costs. But I would have to say the Honda would be my choice of the four. It just seems to have the edge over the others, feels more modern and has everything you need, all with a touch more class and style.

Performance Tests – Paul Maric:

Although performance won’t be at the forefront of the average punter’s list of desires when it comes to buying this type of car, we have thrown it in for those interested.

The performance figures also indicate that kilowatts don’t necessarily mean quicker numbers.

All performance tests were conducted with the driver and a single passenger on board, along with half a tank of petrol. All testing was conducted by Paul Maric. Three runs were conducted, with the average of all three results listed below.

Luxury large car comparison performance figures

The Aurion’s 200kg weight advantage allowed it to nudge ahead of the Falcon. Although the Accord felt lively and very responsive at the top end, there was a lack of attentiveness off the line, causing it to run consistently slower times than its competitors.

The Aurion’s stability control had to be disabled for the timed acceleration runs also. There’s no button to disable the Toyota’s stability control, but there is a secret combination which will switch all driver aids off.

The Commodore was the slickest off the line with no wheel spin, allowing it to move off without hesitation.

Conclusion:

This comparison was certainly not as clear cut as we had expected it to be. The results we all expected before going into this comparison were totally different to the end results.

The Falcon took out the win by a bee’s foot, nudging the Accord out of the top position by the slightest of margins.

The other end of the pack wasn’t as hard to determine though. The Commodore’s dire lack of features and lackluster engine and gearbox combination placed it at the back of the pack. The price point didn’t help it either. If you wanted to even come close to matching the Aurion or Accord for features, you would have to fork out for the Calais V which was some $8000 more than the Accord.

Although the Aurion came with a considerable amount of kit, the engine and handling package was a bit spasmodic at times. It didn’t offer any flare when it came to the drive and became quite thirsty during performance testing.

Needless to say, the Falcon really is an impressive all rounder. The engine’s level of enthusiasm, coupled with the amazing gearbox made it quite a riveting drive when put to the test, it also dominated when tootling around, making it the perfect luxury six-cylinder sedan on the Australian market in this price bracket.

A big thank you also goes out to the Poowong Hotel for providing one of the best lunches we’ve ever had! They fed our team of 6 and had us full to the brim. Keep up the great work Ben and Fiona!

Mohamad is right whe he

Well done Ford, excellent result.
All ford Australia need now is for the public to realise how good this product is. And to consider this car before buying a commodore. Wake up people.

Awesome product- not being rewarded.
rocket_v6

as i expected but accord gave a good fight…….the bottomline is V6 rules,
rocket_v6

the holden and toyota were not even close that was a bit unexpected
TonyB

Good report and a not too suprising result. While notionally a Holden man, even I have to admit the Falcon is the better car at every spec level. Hope to see more of these comparison tests.
http://www.littlepixiegifts.com.au Gift-Ed

Great article guys.

Interesting performance figures with Falcon and Commodore virtually line ball over 400m, even though the Falcon usually considered quite a bit punchier.

Other than that I was quite surprised to read how far Commodore seems to have fallen from the rave reviews it got just two and a bit years ago.

Time for an update Holden.

Didn’t expect the Honda to do as well either, but Ford and Toyota were where I would have guessed.
ScottT

Oh no, they dared say something bad about Holden………These guys must be biased!!!!!

Well done to Ford. Good result for Honda too. Toyota confirmed what we already knew. a boring drive!!!
http://. Naughtyius Maxiumus

Top review and much as expected. The Ford is a quantum leap above previous model and has received rave reviews. Its true that the Toyota when pressed has bad fuel economy; the claims of great economy and changing the game is a laugh. The reality of real world usage is never more noticeable when the pedal is to the metal and its not cutting edge but rather ordinary.
ford cars are best

cant wait for the Toyota goon to start whinging

Not fair – - bias to Ford BLAH BLAH BLAH
BOSSCR

Well done CA, great read. At never being in a Presara, i laughed at seing the woodgrain trim photos, and also the cornering photo on page 7! I think it is great that Ford has cump up with the goods, and im now keen to see what Holden will do with the SeriesII. I like the Accord, but Im dissapointed with the fuel consumption.

CA, any chance of a review of the poverty packs? Too many motoring journos (and im not pointing the finger at CA) focus their attention on SS v XR6T etc, the average Joe is only going to have an entry level car (including myself as i drive a company car).

Cheers.
http://caradvice.com.au/14484/ford-vs-holden-vs-honda-vs-toyota-luxury-large-car-comparison/4/ Hans

Great review. Interesting to see that your lady reviewer gave the win to the Accord rather than the Falcon.

Unfortunately the sales statistics speak for themselves. The large car market is a dying breed. For the same money you could get yourself a fully kitted Tiguan, CRV or X-trail (the latter two with heaps of change) with more practicality and better fuel efficiency. Sure it won’t go from 0-100 in 7 seconds but around the city who cares?

Dave

Love these large cars. Sensible family transport. WHo would want an SUV. Those Marketers must be laughing all the way to the bank (going by SUV sales).

Suv: Weighs as much as a large sedan, often uses as much fuel, slower, less cabin space and boot space. With a higher centre of gravity (great for rolling over).

at least with a regular larger car, other drivers can still see around you.

GhisGT

The Falcon should win, it’s 2 years newer

Don’t know what the hell you were doing to record the Calais’ fuel figures, I’m steering a SV6 on loan an managed 8.7l/100 on the 100km trip to work this morning, and so far very rarly acheive over 8l/100 for a trip, 70% city and 30% highway cycle.

How did you do the fuel consumption tests, was it simply handing over the keys, record fuel usage per distance, and leave it at that?
Carl

I’m shocked to read the Toyota was thirsty in real world conditions!!(he says with sarcasm).

I am a bit surprised that the Calais was so far behind the other 3 but totally expected the Falcon to win!

NICE review!!!!
alec

Good read, Falcon is a great car.
I reckon this car would go a long way to improving Ford North Americas product line up if they only had it over there!!
Fenno

Good job guys. No surprises with the falcon there.
Suprised about the Aurion quarter time (you did mention you used the secret manuever to disable the TRC). Not sure many Aurion drivers are going to go through that procedure (handbrake up-down,clap,honk the horn, headbutt the steering wheel. etc) every time they want to out run a falcon by a nose length at the lights.
Surprised by the Accord…not surprised by the female’s review on the Honda (Honda’s brand image has been marketed so well that most of the un-informed think Honda is a prestige brand) Pity about it being Thai built. Any results on cost’s to insure, repair and service etc?
Would have been interesting.
Although not a fan I can see Holden’s appeal and wonder how the VE has dropped out of favour so quickly after such raving riviews not too long back (“as good as a 5-series”).
I guess when the advertising money runs out, reviews tend to be a little more subjective eh?
Cant wait to see the next comparo you guys conjure up.
Again, well done.
Fenno

You’re right there Alec… ford have made a serious blunder by not exproting the falcon to the yanks.
Imagine how they would butcher the styling though…(pontiac G8 anybody???)
Frugal One

Why can’t you guys compare the glove-boxs of each and every one and make a conclusion who has the best?

Cheers

F-0
Jimbo

Great article and great review CA.
And good work Ford on building such a fantastic family car.
I would still rather a Diesel Mondeo but in this category the Falcon would have been my winner. It’s just a real shame that the resale is so bad. Oh well this just means that when a executive is finished with his lease car then the normal folk can pick it up at a steal.
Frugal One

Correct Jimbo!

But the market figures dont lie and have spoken

The punters are better off buying XTrail/Rav/CX7[Please test it C/A]compact SUV’s

More economical, more suitable for familys, MUCH better resale and build quality, and AWD thrown in for free.

Cheers

F-0
Jimbo

Why doesn’t Ford Export both the Falcon and the Territory?

They are both brilliant cars. Stick a diesel option in them both and they would sell really well in Europe as well as the USA, Asia and the Middle East.

Ford you have to think big picture!!
Glen

GM and Ford in the USA are going broke because they are making cars that nobody wants. We need to realise that low L/100km figures are more important than low 0-100 km/hr figures.
Tom

The Calais’ interior looks the second most visually pleasing to the Accord.

They are such a nice combination of colours and design. I’m not entirely sure how they could call it ‘poverty’, when they wrote that, i thought the stock calais might make do with the standard commodore SS interior, as opposed to the SS-V, but no, it has the full sized head unit.
Marcus

Interesting review, but I’m not sure why comprehensive fuel economy figures weren’t provided given the current climate. Or have I got it wrong, performance is still far more important than fuel economy for the large car class.
Tom

Glen, GM are going broke, because they have about 20 different brands, each producing poor entry level cars compared to the Japanese competition.

They have a huge confusion of names, advertisements, dealer networks and far too many models. They could almost consolidate all of saturn, pontiac, buick, etc, into one brand under Chevrolet, and keep Cadillac as the high end American division.

Either way, GM offer stacks of brilliant cars, that’s not why they are going broke.
Tom

Wow, the Calais’ straight line performance was almost identical to the Falcon, and beat the Accord.

It almost ran a 14 second pass, i wasn’t really expecting that at all.
alec

I can’t believe people think you are better off buying a small SUV such as CRV, X-Trail, CX7 etc etc

Better economy is debatable because the real world figurs are usually 11L/100km plus. LOOK at their weight!!!
In comparison they have worse handling, average performance, average looks (in my opinion) and in general poorer technical spec.

Sure their resale is better, only because they are a relatively fresh concept (compared to sedans), but fads come and go and small SUV’s may be at their peak of being in fashion.

I agree they are more versatile, but that is only due to there being a big boot at the back. The trade off is poorer drivability (in general) For that reason alone I think a car based wagon is superior.
And up until now, Australia has had relatively poor options when it came to a wagon – which had to contribute to SUV sales.

And AWD??? Most are front, only using the rear wheels when they detect slip. Problem is they need the AWD function to maintain decent grip due to the generally poorer handling characteristics (in comparison to sedans)
Joke

Ford G6E has just 4 air bags? What a joke!!…Even A$ 26,000 Hyundai Sonata has 6 air bags..and A$ 40,000 Grandeur has 8 bags !!
Highplains68

Road test was a bit light on for comparative fuel consumption for all four cars under similar conditions. This was a bit of an oversight if you’re testing four big cars. Quoting the official results is just not good enough. What’s wrong with a best, worst and average figure for each car under test based on actual fuel used, not dashboard readouts.
paul

Joke
Its a $500 option. Get over it.
I can tell you from experience that most people dont realy care and if they do,they just option the car with it.
TP

Well looks like I predicted the rankings correcly. Some points:

* To AndrewM, Im expecting an apology for your arguments regarding the Aurions accleration and your doubt that it did the 100 in high 6s. The BF Falcon would have been even slower, which is when we had this argument.
* To above poster the Ford site says side and curtain airbags are a feature, I think you may be wrong.
* The Accord Euro has “ample” torque of 230Nm in a 1605kg car but the Aurion has “fairly avergage” torque of 1650kg. WTF? Compared to the competition maybe, but play the ball not the man, it doesnt need the same torque as a heavier Commodore or Falcon.
alec

Joke,
G6E has 6 air bags, Driver/Passenger Front Airbags & Curtain airbags plus front seat side thorax airbags as listed in Ford website.
The curtain airbags are available on all falcons
The Axe

Joke, you are a joke.
Front driver and passenger, and two side airbags that protect the thorax as well as the HEAD…
Full curtain airbags are a $300 option with side airbags changed to thorax only.
Holden has part leather, no reverse camera. And Sonata is a smaller car and not in the same market.
Learn the facts before you post.
The Axe

And yes the G6E has them standard, G6 it’s optional for $300.
PG

I still dont see what the fuss is about not having a flat boot floor. I have a Falcon and the best part of the boot is that is isnt flat. That tub in the middle is the best place to put shopping etc, it doesnt roll around ,it should be a highlight not a shortfall of the design.
Joke

Paul said “Standard safety features include: Electronic stability control; ABS brakes with EBD and BA; driver and front passenger airbags; front side airbags and traction control”

It seems that only 4 air bags are standard..What are joke !!…Even A$ 26,000 Sonata has 6 air bags as satandard safety feature,,,Wake up ford !!! A$ 47000 car must have at least 6 air bags as standard safety feature..
ford cars are best

Joke

G6E does come with 6 airbags – have a look at teh ford web site
Eddy The Expert

I find it has to believe that you didn\’t like the steering and handling of the Calais when everyone else who driven it had praised it. Personal preference i suppose.

You also state that Sat Nav is not available, however full colour sat nav is an option.
And the centre screen is a full colour screen (hence being sat nav capable).

You also mention the 4 star safety rating, however forget to mention that this was conducted in an Omega with 2 airbags(from memory, i could be wrong) and now the Commodore range has 6 airbags as standard.
Tom

Fenno, with that tongue in mouth comment about the VE being BMW 5 series comparable. Never in the review did they criticize the base VE package, all that was said is that it didn’t offer comparable luxury items. The Calais V is just overpriced compared to the new offerings.

The 5 series comparo was mostly made with the SS-V in mind, which has much more handling focused suspension, and a far more impressive engine/drivetrain combo.

It seems likely that the Series 2 VE will get a direct injection v6 and 6 speed auto that are on the Holden-developed Camaro.
http://AustCarAdvice Graham Cartwright

Over the life of these cars, a typical owner would experiance more breakdowns and problems with the Falcon and Commodore then the Accord and Aurion.

CA listed standard ESP as a postive for the Commodore. Durr … don’t they all have ESP as standard which suggests they didn’t have much to say about the VE.

I believe a government article recently published the Commodore as the thiriest, most costly and polluting of the family size cars.
Joke

I went Honda Web site a few minute ago and found a real Joke….A$ 47000 Odyssey has no ESP !!!. Even a customer cannot buy it as an option!!! What a shock!!! Wake up Honda !! Hyundai is selling Getz at A$ 14,990 drive way with A FREE ESP now !!!!
Golfschwein

Graham Cartwright is Dingo, everybody.
Tom

Also, its hardly fair to criticize the Calais for its lack of sat nav and leather, when the Aurion is close to $4000 more expensive, and both can be optioned on the Calais to begin with.

It would be a fairer test to comment on how it is slightly more expensive with the options ticked, rather than call the interior downmarket.
Joober

Great review, as I would expected given G6 and Accord are newer cars. and as I predicted it was going to be a close call on the G6 and Accord.
http://AustCarAdvice Graham Cartwright

Graham Cartwright is Graham Cartwright.
http://AustCarAdvice Graham Cartwright

Golfschwein is Car Advice.com.au, everybody.
http://www.caradvice.com.au Anthony

GhisGT – you are a dead set legend son. Have you checked the vehicle weights?
AC COBRA

CONGRATULATIONS FORD !!!!!!!!!!!, Some people commenting here are sad clowns having a cry, in my opinion Toyoda should of come last..
Jason

Good review overall, however it is light on detail. One sentence for steering or handling? A more comprehensive piece would have brought the review up a notch, possibly even on par with the motoring magazines.

For all those posters confused about curtain airbags on the Falcon. A good look at the website shows the G6E does not include them standard, only as part of a pack (Thats why Ford’s claim for curtain airbags on their website has a nice little asterix next to it). Check their more enlightening Safety webpage.

I thought the comments on the Commodore’s 4 star safety rating a bit of a joke. Its amazing how few people, even those in the industry, understand just how ANCAP’s rating system operates.

Taken from ANCAP’s website;
“Five stars is the best rating possible. There is provision in the scoring system for an extra test known as a pole impact test. This is only performed where a head-protecting side airbag is fitted and gives a good result in the side impact test. The manufacturer then has the option of paying for a pole test, which could earn a bonus two points. For this reason ANCAP reports scores out of a maximum possible of 34 points (16 points each for the offset frontal and side impact and two points for the pole test). It is only possible to reach five stars with the bonus points from a pole impact test. ”

As you can see Holden scored a 4 star rating because they only wanted the base model tested (no curtain airbags). Any dummy can see that a Calais with side curtain airbags is going to score 5 stars. Ford’s Falcon is also certain to score only 4 stars because of the lack of standard airbags. I am with Holden on this issue, ANCAP’s 5th star is a joke, with manufacturers having to cough up money to BUY the 5th star. The independent tests should be based solely on safety not money.
TP

Well in light of that the Ford should have been penalised heavily… 6 airbags are standard spec on any decent car.
Fenno

Joke….Which Hyundai dealer are you at?
Why are you even mentioning them?
Maybe you and Dingo can duke it out on a private page somewhere…Or are you Dingo’s evil Hyundai counterpart?
alec

Jason,
I think Ford’s website is a little confusing.
It is the way they have chosen to display the specification that is confusing people. Yes the Curtain bags are available as a pack, ON LESSER SPEC MODELS!!!

The G6E DOES come with curtain, side and front airbags as STANDARD. This is clearly displayed in the first feature on the safety specification section of their website titled “Curtain airbags plus front seat side thorax airbags1″

Cars that dont come with Curtain Bags as standard have this feature listed as “O / P”, and instead have the feature “Front seat side head/thorax airbags2″ ticked.
Jason

Regards Alec, you are correct.

The point regarding ANCAP still stands however. The Falcon will only score 4 stars because only the base model will be tested, again misleading consumers about upper spec models.
Tom

I would prefer the Commodore to the Aurion

I’m not sure if im completely convinced by caradvice’s arguments regarding the handling of the vehicles, and too me, the calais is better looking, both inside and out, and definitely has a more sporty tone.

I wouldn’t let a lack of sat nav for the money give the toyota the edge.

I would take the Falcon though, credit is due were it is earned, good work Ford.
Bret

Side Airbags, ie FRONT are standard on all FG Falcons.
The “optional” curtain airbags refer to whole of car and include rear seats.
Rope man

The new Ford Falcon is an engineering masterpeice! The team at the Broadmeadows plant ought to be very proud of this release. Never before have we seen such a classy range from the base XT right up to the performance FPV options. This is the best range on the market today, and anyone looking at buying a new car should definitely take one for a test drive. Highly reccomended!
The Axe

Now one more time for those who don’t listen:

SIDE CURTAIN AIRBAGS ARE STANDARD ON G6E AND G6E TURBO AND OPTIONAL ON LESSER MODELS!
Pablo

Great comparison.
Shame about the fact that you need to secretly disable all driver aids in the Aurion to get the best from it, performance wise.
Westy

Great review. Great comments following the review. Was there a listing of all the fuel economy figures? I saw a couple but a nice table showing the individual and combined cycles would have been nice to see too.

Good comparo and looks like the first real world one I have seen for some time that actually has some substance. Well done Car Advice.
Nicholas

As they say, the proof is in the driving. You can take all the airbags, ipod inputs, sat-nav systems you like but if your large sedan can’t get past that road train on the highway quickly and safely or brake fast enough to avoid that t-bone city collision where’s the point?
I think the real home for these cars will always be for the highway traveller. So more important things might be spare wheel type, tyre size and expense, fuel types and insurance. Maybe we need a gravel handling review as well.
A CR-V will never compare for comfort when you’ve got 500km to cover.
Westy

I second the opinion of CarAdvice and lament the fact Ford are getting rid of this seriously well refined engine. What a super package.
TP

Pfft what awards has it won? The Aurions engine is a derivative of a winner in Wards Top 10 engines of the year. What we need to be able to differentiate is a superb engine vs superb transmision. Clearly the ZF hides the inefficiencies of an engines Ford thesmelves have no confidence in.
Bret

Axe, Yes “curtain” airbags certainly are an option on the lower spec models, however, the side airbags required to meet ANCAP are standard across the range. there is a difference between “side” airbags and “curtain” aribags.
Westy

I detect a strong case of sour grapes TP ? Bad luck Toyota but just not refined enough to keep up to the new Ford benchmark.
http://integra Car 1

Tp…….go have a cry……the Falcon won because it is a car with character and design integrity………something that no Toyota has, especially the Camry V6 tested here……..oh Aurion…..same thing.

AURION………..The NAME has changed!!!!
TP

Perhaps you can enlighten me as to who has won the Large Car of the Year for the last two years…beating the Falcon with the same engine? Or enlighten me as to which engine is a derivative of the Lexus engine which was in Wards top 10? Or enlighten me to which engine is being scrapped? Or last but not least, enlighten me to which manufacturer has 20% market share and which one combined with the other local barely has HALF the market share?
http://integra Car 1

The VE interior was awful when it was released and its amazing how much it has aged even more now. It really does look cheap and nasty when compared to any of these cars but especially the Falcon. Interesting how they said the Aurion is really a Camry body and not really a large car………well duh !!! lol It IS a Camry and drives like one…….no spark or pleasure from dirving one which is like all Toyota “goodie pack” cars. The game has changed but the Falcon has changed it not the Camry\aurion !!!!
Carl

TP…..Give us all a break! The Falcon engine GROWLS while your little thirsty Aurion just FARTS!!!!
J

I’m surprised the Aurion wasn’t significantly more quick than the G6E, considering it has around 200Kg less bulk to haul around. Testament to the torquiness of the I6!
Jimbo

Car Advice gave a balanced and fair review.

TP don’t suck your thumb mate, you are a grown man are you not? So the Falcon and the Accord are rated as better cars. You can still buy an Aurion if you want one and LOL…enjoy driving it.
Westy

TP no doubt about you. Just give the G6E credit where it’s due. I didn’t do the comparo. CarAdvice did. They did the comparo and they said it came out on top. So get with it. In this comparo of cars in a real world situation Ford wins and Toyota got third. Cripes. It isn’t any plainer than that. Maybe you need to re-read the article as that’s what we are all discussing here. In your eyes Toyota will always be top. We get that. Just get over it and you will be fine. Not everyone agrees with you.
Golfschwein

Enlightenment as requested: The Ford was the better car. The Toyota came 3rd. sad.

dave

pity ford cant win awards like toyota aurion

Austin

Good review Car Advice, having driven an FG for the first time the other day I have to agree. As well as the drivetrain, the front suspension is definitely a highlight of the FG.

Lets see some more comparisons like this for base model sedans, small cars, 4wds etc, I’m sure they are a lot of work, but are useful for people considering their options for a new car.
DARREN

The I6 engine out of the falcon is only being replaced because its not economicly viable to redesign a new I6 motor to comply with the euro4 emissions.We dont sell enough cars to warrant the investment needed on this redesigned motor.Dam shame that we lose a great engine with australian heritage.As for the camry,I mean lexus,i mean aurion engine.It doesnt even come close to a smooth engine.V6 engines suffer from balancing issues,something the I6 doesnt suffer from.As for the TRD version.You would be wanker to think it even compares to the turbo I6 engine both in XR6T or the F6.Toyotas are over rated,always have been and always will.
Tom

Also its being replaced by economics of scale.

Why develop separate 6 cylinder engines for the states and for Australia?
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Just confirmed, Golfshwein is Car Advice, everybody.
guess who is a wanker

Guess Who Aka – confrm as a wanker
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Carl – live with these cars day-in, day-out and the Accord and Aurion will be far more relibale and dependable cars to own then any Commodore or FalcOn ever will be and has been proven in the country for years upon years. Nothing is different today.

Toyota is renounded for many vehicles in it’s fleet wether it be cars, SUV’, 4×4′s or commercials whereas Ford and Holden are generally known for 1 example each.

Granted, the new FalcOn is good but is has to be becuase there is no-doubt about it … if it fails (as it probably will becuase of the shifting consumer demands) the Falcon will be left as a dead duck.

Oh yeah, lets not forget that in 18 months, the L6 is GONE FOREVER …. oooch !! and replaced with a V6 that isn’t exactly the best in the game … is it !!

The Aurion will benefit greatly with it’s mid-life upgrade due in time and nodoubt Toyota will ensure it remains a strong competitor as it is however Ford’s upgrade of the new Falcon will be the decommissioning of the current engine and replaced with an American built v6 instead.

No-doubt about it – the game will change and not in it’s favour …. HA, HA, HA !!
Simon

Great review guys, appreciate the work that went into this and think was worth it!! More car comparisons would be great.

Also really enjoy reading reviews that are not tainted by the size of advertising account of that manufacturer.
TP

Haha I have never mentioned yet the G6E doesnt deserve this win… Id buy it over an Aurion. But going down the range, the Aurion wins, particularly in base form. And when broke down into parts, the Aurions engine I feel is far superior. But as an overall package the G6E has the transmission, far better inferior and decent dynamics. I personally dont like the interior of the Presara, the Sportivo is much nicer.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Darren – you have got absolutely no idea what you are even talking about. The Aurion V6 is infact amoung the smoothest and most refined engines that can be found anywhere in the world today while the Direct Injected (DI) derivatives as used by Lexus are even better … PERIOD !!

Any comment otherwise is just downright pathetic !!

And one thing about Toyota and that is they not over rated. Infact, Toyota is amoung the highest quality, most reliable/dependable and consistant automotive manufactuer in exsistance today and there is no truer axample then it’s strong and respected reputation throughout the world.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

TP – i wouldn’t buy it over an Aurion because Falcons and Commodores are infact amoung the most unreliable vehicles on the market and have been for many long years, no different today.

Oooops, forgot to mention – Ford is stumbling on whether it will continue manufactuering RWD platforms into the future … ooch !!
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Well, well, well … Toyota Australia has just announced a record year in profit. For the FISCAL year 2007/008, they have reported an after tax profit of $242 million (Oz) compared to their 2006/2007 FISCAL profit of $184 million (Oz).

Ford Australia however recorded a $87 million loss for the 2007/2008 FISCAL year … oooch !!
TP

True Guess who no doubting it would be a massive risk given 55% of Falcons need to return to dealership for unscheduled maintenace… but I dislike the interior of the Presara, the G6E doesnt have a better interior. But every model below this, the Aurion wins hands down.

Just heard on nes, Ford posting $9 Billion loss each quarter!!! That sounds like a brand making decent cars….not.
Wheelnut

Quote [Guess Who Aka]: “….Aurion will be far more relibale and dependable cars to own then any Commodore or Falcon ever will be and has been proven in the country for years upon years.

If they are so dependable and so reliable as you would like us to believe then why is it that you don’t see that many Old Toyotas [15 years or older] around today as you do Holdens and Fords.

I know you will come back with a statement saying ” stop living in the past; we are in the here and now”

However; the fact remains if they were so reliable and long lasting then surely there would be more of them on our roads .

BTW – To be fair Im using 1958 [the year Toyota started in Oz] as a starting point.. which rules out your arguement that there are more Forda and Holdens as they sold more given that Ford started in 1925 and Holden back in the early 1900s

And as for the number of Toyotas being used on the snowy mountain scheme there were actually more VWs
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

TP – yes, Ford Mo Co has just announced a May-June qtr loss of about $9 billion … ooch !!
http://aca Guess Who aka ..

Wheelnut – Holden and Ford have long sold amoung the poorest quality and most unreliable vehicles in Australia for many years particularly Holden. Believe what ever you want becuase it doesn’t change reality … not even remotely.

Off to watch a movie now – Alien vs Predator the Sequal and then eat my yummy Chinese Tucker the wife has just brought.

cheers
http://integra Car 1

TP…..the car industry is going through a massive change at the moment and Toyota is in a good position…….at the moment. They are getting away with building very average cars on the back of high petrol prices and the public are being fooled by the myth that Toyotas are more economical in the real world. Enjoy the tme at the top of sales figures……….not having anywhere near the best cars…..because things will change. Every business has its ups and downs and the worm will turn……….so be carefull what you say because it will come back to bite you on the arse……….
http://deleted Alex

Jimbo, the Territory might do OK in Europe but the Falcon wouldnt. If someone wants a big sedan in Europe they want a 5 series or an E Class. Other than that, most people would sacrifice space and just get a poverty pack 3 series.
BobB

A disappointing omission in this review is the lack of a table showing the ‘real world’ fuel consumption of each model tested.

Also a comparison of on-going costs, including service costs and intervals (Hondas are usually a pathetic and costly 6 month/ 10000km) would have been welcome.

There was no comparative mention of refinement in terms of road noise over Australia’s typically coarse road surfaces which can severely destroy the overall cruising experience.

Hopefully these issues can be addressed in an update.

I’ve never understood why criticism is levelled at the Falcon’s boot well. I have a BA Fairmont Ghia as well as a MX-5, both of which wave a welled boot and I wouldn’t have it any other way as the depression prevents items going into orbit and getting damaged or disappearing to the rear of the boot.
Phill

how do you make an Aurion handle???Drive it in reverse
Tomas79

Alex, it all depends where in Europe you are referring to?!!
I lived and worked in Baden-Wurttemberg (From where porsche and Benz come from) and Bavarian (From where BMWs come from).
And Genuinely the FORD would not have a chance against similarly sized German rivals. As for the 3 series, they are usually bought by fathers for their daughters, in a similar fashion as the Mitsubishi lancers used to be bought here. Don’t kid your self, people aren’t that interested in a poverty pack 3 series there, as Aussies seem to be here!!
In Europe you have much greater variety to choose from!!
And the cars you see on the road vary, not just from country to country, but states within a country. For example in Northern German states you see much more VW’s and OPELs . Also I believe the Falcon would be just too wide for the fairly narrow roads in europe!! Especially when you have curb park on streets that existed way before automobiles became available.
http://integra Car 1

Phil….you hit the nail on the head there mate……lol funny you should say that because 2 months ago an Aurion\Camry (same thing) sat spinning its front wheels as it tried to pull a not very big boat up our local ramp……….a bloke yelled out to him ” hey mate………put the towbar on the front of the car and reverse it out and you might just get it up the ramp” !!! so funny……
Wheelnut

It doesn’t alter the fact that there are still more [post 1958] Holdens and Fords than Toyota’s still going around though..

My point is what really defines reliability is whether or not something is built to last – or for at least more than 10 years.
BOSSCR

Once again, Toyota fans have hijacked an article…

Guess Who? Are you Luke GT by any chance?

I love it when people claim that something is a fact, by simply saying fact.

Honda may be reliable, but are effing expensive when it comes to parts. My g/f’s Civic needs a new central door locking master actuator for passenger side front – $160!!! You can buy a whole kit from Strathfield for $39 with 2 x master and 2 x slaves with all wiring.

I like the Honda, and agree whole heartedly with CA’s ranking, but the FG won, fare and square.
http://- crouchy

geeez you would think that for such a fancy key fob, Toyota could have made it look a bit better!!!
BOSSCR

TP, get off your market-share high horse, because Toyota have more cars to sell than anyone else. With all the diff models they offer, they would want to be selling a f-load!!!

Also, Fords $9billion loss was in North America, where they have nothing to do with any of the Fords that are sold in Aus.

Go back your Toyota into a Cafe like most Lawn Bowl playing, cardigan wearing, blue rinsed, senior citizen Corolla sedan drivers.
DARREN

TRD hilux anyone.
What a joke!!!!Still retains a drum brake rear end and was to rival Ford and Holden sports utes.YEAH RIGHT.
Wheelnut

I mean if Toyotas were as well built and as reliable as you would like us to believe then surely [even though they might not have sold as many as Ford or Holden] there would still be a considerable number of 1987 Corons and older Toyotas still out there which would be cheap enough for Learner drivers to buy as their first car.

Which would then mean possibly more teenage drivers who would have had so many 1000 ks of happy motoring in their Toyota and then maybe make them want to buy another slightly newer Toyota like a 1997 model.

But because Toyotas don’t last as long; the young drivers are more likely to opt for a Falcon or Commodore

I know brand loyalty isn’t as big as it was years ago but the one thing that sways alot of drivers in buying a car is their memeories impressions of and experiences with a particular make of car when they were younger.. a number of Teenage drivers choose the same make of car that theuir dad had when they were growing up.
Golfschwein

That’s the guts of it, BOSSCR. The Ford won this comparison. It was the best car. Bringing in hypothetical results for the lower rung cars isn’t where it’s at.

Besides, WHEELS did that last month and the Aurion came last there, too. However, it did fare well in the Gold Star Cars categories, which place much less emphasis on the actual driving.
Wheelnut

Not to mention the matter of cost of repairs of cars as they get older and availability of parts

Cos compared to the cost of repiaring the engine of a VL Commodore or XF Falcon – the cost of repairing the Engine/Gearbox of a 1987 Toyota is almost as much as the value of the car itself.

Oh and then theres the design of a car. Some of the older Fords and Holdens still look relatively modern. They have a distinctive look so you can tell its a Falcon or Commodore
Whereas the Toyota Avalon for example was out of date [in terms of looks] the day it was released – if not before.
BOSSCR

If Commodores are so poor quality and unreliable, why did Toyota stick Lexcen badges on them for 6 years?
Wheelnut

Darren – I saw a guy in a TRD Hilux at the lights in Adelaide last week.
I didn’t pick it at first as theres really nothing to distinguish it from an SR5 Hilux except for the tacky body stripes – however the ute was a graphite grey with light grey stripes so they kind of blended in the same way the TRD logo does on the grille

It wasn’t until I saw the number plate which was TRD. Although I guess that was because he couldn’t have S–T.
Shiny

Guess Who Aka, what happens to that profit The Big T is declaring? I for one wonder what corner of the globe it is going too!
Wheelnut

Good point BOSSCR – I remember one of my mums friends had a Lexcen. It had Toyota Badges on the Outside tet on the inside Holden was written on the Tape Deck; Glove Box Steering Wheel and Rubber Floor Mats.. that’s their attention to detail

I realise that the HSV VXR Astra has Opel badges on it but at least they’re from the same company and a number of Barina/Astra owners replace the Holden badges with Opel badges..
http://aca Guess Who Aka … !!

I have just confirmed, Golfschwein is affiliated with Car Advice.com.au
MD

A good win for Ford Australia. The new falcon is a very good car in premium form. Although I think at the basement level an Aurion would give it a run for its money.

The falcon has some nice features and upmarket touches, but how come there’s no xenon headlights?

The commie was rightfully found to be lacking features in this group of sub $50K vehicles, yet its funny how other Aussie car reviews have proclamied the Commie to be on par with upper end BMWs and MBs features wise…
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Car1 – you write nothing but shear rot !!

Toyota has long engineered and built strong, solid, quality, reliable, dependable and durable cars and thier reputation throughout the world supports my comment. Infact, Toyota argueably has the most consistant fleet of any and have done so for a long time and YES … they will enjoy thier time at the top while GM and Ford crumble beneath.

Check out any Quality / Cust Satisfaction Survey wether it be in the UK, USA or Australia and Toyota consistantly rates amoung the best performers and that doesn’t happen by mistake … does it !!

Toyota is No.1 becuase they engineer damn good cars and it must tear your heart out witnessing them make a complete mockery of the red & blue badge.

Outselling Holden and Ford combined must be a teerible and soul wrenching experinace especially when you sight the sales figures month after month.

While Toyota grows in strength – fleet / range, wealth, reputation, repect, stability and future foresight – General Motors and Ford Motor Co continue to crumble and fall apart … Ooooch

OH WHAT A WARM AND FUZZY FEELING
Wheelnut

$242 million…. not bad; that’s almost half of what Toyota will waste in keeping their F1 team [as an also-ran] in next years championship…. That is if there is a next year.

Instead of going into development of a range of more technologically advanced better looking production cars or perhaps their first serious [RWD or AWD] performance car

I mean to do that the world’s richest car company had to team up with Subaru – from whom I expect they will pinch ideas etc again
Jus de l’amour

Dingo /AKA. if he is who cares, we all just want you to leave .No one is clearly listening to your dribble not even the other two Ts in your corner ,TP and Tomas79.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Shiny – the same place were the profit from Holden and Ford go to … off our shores !!

Ooops – forgot, they don’t make a profit … oooch !!

However, profitability ensures local viability which inturn balances the risks for retained employment of Australian workers … does it not ??

Thought so … !!

While Mitsubishi recently closed shop, Holden and Ford have long been reducing local employment however – todate – Toyota Australia has stayed strong and retained staff at current levels.

Unless Ford Motor Co relises the strenghth of the Australian Falcon VERY SOON and creates an external market, it too will eventually be gone.

Survivability is not just about the strenghth of cars automotive companies design and engineer but corporate intelligence which seems to be strangling weak link with the American owned car companies not to mention thier questionable past for engineering quality, reliable and dpendable cars in the face of the European and Japanese manufactuers whom have grown strong and continue to do so.
http://aca Guess Who aka …

Wheelnut – boo hoo princess.

Sure, Toyota invests considerable money in F1 and has been a struggle for the group but the engineering talent gained from such participation is unchallenged by any other form of motor racing … am i wrong – NO !!

Oh yeah, and why would Toyota do business any otherway sense it is thier strategy that has not only made them the world’s current No.1 for sales – but for wealth, annual profits, global respect & recognition, corporate strength, stabiliity and future foresight all of which makes a very powerful and influancial mark on the global motoring world.

Follow Ford and GM’s example and they too would have become a crunchie … HA, HA, HA !!

And just to rub salt into the wounds – NASCAR has just changed thier rules mid season and instructed Toyota to detune thier engines because Chevrolet, Ford and Dodge have been whinging, crying and sook’n about Toyota’s greater output putting them all to shame.

No different to Holden and Ford’s pathetic game to have Nissan ousted becuase they two made a complete mockery of the local V8′s.

There is currently an article on NASCAR.com which tells a story of a Ford and Chevy driver battling for 1st place recently when they each nearly crashed in dis-belief when a Toyota over took them both and just keeped on pulling away with ease … an absolute killer of story that had me killing myself in laughter.

Toyota took the battle to the American car companies is now flogging them in thier own game on thier own soil so now … rules are changing to stop Toyota’s onslaught but it seems it may have a backlash as well as many blogs are full comments in support of Toyota for engineering a much better engine whichin the stipulated relms

Basically, many are saying why should Toyota be detuned when the others should try alittle harder and catch up !!

This is should be interesting to see how it all unfolds and the way i see it, Toyota is probably gonna gain more respect amoung some fans of NASCAR – well … most replys certainly point in that direction.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Oh yeah – the next generation Supra (FT-HS), AE86 and the new ‘F’ series from Lexus … is that the sort of performance cars you are suggesting … thought so !!

That said, TRD does a resonable job itself especially in motorsport.

And, lets not forget the considerable investments in Toyota’s diverse and considerable fleet and the challenges to ensure consistancy wether it be cars, SUV’s, 4×4′s, people movers or commercials.

Then there is Lexus, one of the most technologically advanced and highest quality brands in the world today not to mention thier ongoing development of hybrid drivetrains.

And ofcourse Scion, Diahatsu, Hino and Denso to name a few all require captial investment and all going strong in thier markets.

$232 million profit is what Holden and Ford didn’t make.

The funniest of all, it has been the very people like yourself who have been saying Toyota Australia is unprofitable and next to go … HOW WRONG !!

Here’s a better suggestion, why doesn’t Holden and Ford just give up the V8 Supercars sense it doesn’t seem to be doing much for thier sales and invest that capital into long term stability. Actually, Holden would be wise to spend that extra loot and get itself a decent fleet instead of rebadged, 10 year old Daewoos.
topdog

How things have change holdens seem to always finnish behind the pack now there not good againt all these new cars comming out.And how good is it to see the falcon continualy comming out in front.I remmenber years ago the falcon was always behind always used more fuel was slower did not handle blar blar ,Now thay have turned the tables and its the falcon using less fuel more comfy faster u name it.Good on ford and i hope thay do well with it thay deseve it .I can just here all holden guys crying out .Bad luck just remember u had your time in the sun before .Now its dark days for commodore and sunny days for falcon
victory

I’m surprised there are so many comments on this review. I think all four cars are equally undesirable and feel sorry for anyone who blows 50k on one of these.
technofreak

Except Ford have posted a huge financial loss globally and we are all paying for it.
None of these “big” 6s work anymore and are way behind the future.
Time to let go of the past and move on boys….big guzzlers are dead and new efficient cars will be the future.
topdog

thay may be future at this time right now there still selling more 6s and v8 and four wheel drives than little fuel saving cars
topdog

One of things i hated in the commodore is the sat nav sceen is way to close to floor.You have to look way down to see it very bad .Dont no how thay put it there .It should be much higher like the other cars
BOSSCR

Its not hard to see the same layout and vocab used in Guess Who Aka and Luke GT, YOU HAVE BEEN OUTED!!!!

This article is about which car is better, not which company makes more profit and who does better in NASCAR. I know if i was buying a FWD car, the fact that a V8 RWD “Camry” does well in NASCAR in a completely different hemispere, would not sway me to think that this is obviously a better car, when there is no correlation between the two other than a name.

Go jump in your beige Avalon and putt along to chemist to get your script.
Tomas79

Jus de l’amour , Hmmm… I wonder what retarded coward mentioning me is hiding behind this new name!!

As for the other retard mentioning that there is much more older falcons and commodores on the road. WTF you are on, obviously you live in boganville!! One of the biggest reasons i bought a toyota, is from seeing that most of the oldest cars on the road, that still drive are those old silverish corrollas!! I just dont see the kingswoods or fords from that era on the road anymore!! And yes, there were a sh!tload more of Fords and holdens sold back then!!
2tow

I hate the look at the back of commodore.Its to high in the tail for me and i dont like the way you can see every thing under the car.The pipes and stuff and mud flaps at the back are a joke thay just dont blend in with the fake flared gaurds looks very bad
BOSSCR

Tomas79,

Have a look at the old silver Toyota in this link, and it might make you re-think that call.

w w w.caradvice.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=359
TP

Exactly Tomas less Toyota sold back then… yet more currently on the road. They stand the test of time.
Tomas79

BOSSCR, What is your point?!!
I’m refering to the old E70 and E80 corollas, from the 70′s… Ofcourse, unless it has been restored, you won’t see a road legal Commodore or Falcon or cortina from that era!! But those Corrolas still soldier on!!
Guess Who aka Dingo is a losing cardigan covered cry baby

Everybody – I wouldn’t buy a grandpa Aurion that only sell to the ageing masses and discounted fleet hire companies, Aurion’s are infact amoung the most unreliable vehicles on the market and have been for many long years, no different today.

Oooops, forgot to mention – Aurion is stumbling on whether it will continue manufactuering FWD platforms into the future … oooooochy !!
Tomas79

Umm, Mental Case, what have you got to support your dribble? So far this and last year, toyota has been toping sales and popularity, respect, reliability charts, while ford and holdens have only been breaking records in making losses!!
MH

Good to see a large car blog that has only a moderate amount of unnecessary and boring Holden/Ford/Toyota bashing. A couple of points:

I find it difficult to understand why a blog site like CarAdvice doesn’t have the occasional input from one of the authors. I too would like to know why fuel consumption figures aren’t provided. The most entertaining blogs are always those that have the occasional comment from the author (you’re still missed Matt Price). An explanation here for the absence of consumption figures would be appreciated. And why was release of this review delayed until after the promised Thursday evening release (surely not some cynical counting hits exercise?).

A very strong positive however – good on you for including the views of a female driver. As someone who is deeply worried about the continual decline of the Aust large car market, I find it baffling that media, old and new, and we readers, don’t pay enough attention to the influence of 50% of the market. (Man I’m sick of seeing Prados)

And lastly – why is there such a significant 200kg difference in mass between the G6E and the Aurion? Surely the engine and rear diff don’t weight that much more. Imagine a trimmed down G6. (Or would this just be a RWD Mondeo?)
Paul Maric

MH:

The article was delayed due to formatting issues with the final product. It finally went online at 2AM that following morning when they were resolved.

We do have fuel consumption figures and will post them in the near future – again it was due to formatting issues that they were omitted.

In the interim though, here they are:

Ford Falcon G6E: 9.8L/100km
Holden Commodore Calais V6: 10.9L/100km
Toyota Aurion Presara: 10.5L/100km
Honda Accord V6 Luxury: 10.6L/100km

The fuel consumption figures included highway, city and performance driving.

The Falcon also recorded the best low fuel consumption of 7.9L/100km.
TP

200kg difference isnt that suprising… Engine, Diff AND size of the vehicle itself.
Fordfan

Rubbish torque figures in those V6s – the Falcon i6 is the far better lazy cruiser.
Westy

Paul,

Thanks for the fuel figures and thanks to MH for following up on the same point I raised earlier. Wonder what conspiracy theory TP will write now. See those numbers for fuel consumption TP !!! And you sprout on about your lovely Toyota being so good. LMAO at TP. Wow Ford that is one REFINED engine. Why exactly Ford are ditching this I6 for a less efficient and less powerful V6 is beyond me.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

WHEELS July 2008 pg 78

* Aurion Prodigy … 10.6 l / 100km

* Falocn G6 … 10.8 l / 100km

* Commodore Berlina 11.4 l / 100km

I could go to another article and no-doubt find different figures again … mmm !!
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Westy – TP is absloutely correct, the 2GR-FE that powers the Aurion is amoung the smoothest and most refined engines today while the DI variants as found in many Lexus vehicles are even better. No amount of swining from you will ever change those simple facts … not even remotely !!

I haven’t driven the new Honda Accord yet but don’t doubt for a second it is every bit as good while the alloytech in the Commodore is just down right awful.

Ford has done a good job with the present L6 albeit the questionable reliability issues of it over the years but unfortunately it will be leaving the Australian motoring scene in approx 18 months and replaced with an American biult V6 that isn’t exactly the best … is it !!

The Aurion (and nodoubt the Commodore ) will benefit from thier facelift in due time and as i mentioned earlier, you can be guaranteed Toyota will ensure the Aurion remains a highly competitive vehicle as it is today.

However, the facelift for the new FG will be the decommissioning of the current L6 and comissioning of the less favourable duratec V6. Not sure wether it will be the 3.5 or 3.7 example but the reports i have read suggest the 3.7 as found in the current CX-9 which coincidently has been the only true critism of the SUV regarding questionable engine refinement and high fuel consumption.

The Motoring industry has always been a game of leep frog and no-doubt always will be – how else do we advance !!

However, cars like the Toyota Aurion and Honda Accord are high quality, advanced, refined, well specified, powerful / fast cars that make great alternatives to the traditional Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore and right now given the general movement away from family size cars – this is competition Holden and Ford can do without.

Take Toyota for example – it’s has establshed itself a reputation virtually across all facets of the market wether it be cars, SUV’s, 4×4′s or commercials and is strong becuase of it while Holden (for example) is pretty much a one horse show and even then it’s increasingly being challenged.

As for Ford and Honda, neither to each extreme but i’m sure you understand what i am trying to saying.
Adam (aka Mada)

Amazing fuel sonsumption figures for the G6E, Honda’s cylinder shut down feature appears better on ‘paper’ than in the real world.
The aurion should have had the best consumption figures based on weight alone.

This comparison just proves even more so that big RWD vehicles can outperform big FWD vehicles.

The large car market is apparently shrinking yet toyota and honda felt the need to introduce bigger vehicles this time around, why??

I thought people called falcon and commodore dinosuars, yet the honda and toyota are making bigger, heavier, gas guzzlers also…
http://integra Ute Tray

Seeing the FG in the company of these other cars confirms one thing………..it is a very nice looking car. It is a sleek integrated design with great lines and sylish finish. Thank god they didnt go for the Holden VE oversized wheel arches which are dating badly and look added on instead of integrated. For a billion dollar car the VE is already looking old and outdated and Holden would be worried by this given that they dont have any money to fix all the major problems this outdated 2 year old car has.
Motorhead

I’ve never understood why motoring journos see the Falcons recess in the boot floor as a negative. Anyone who regularly uses their boot would surely understand not having your shopping rolling all over the boot is a good thing.

I don’t think using a secret method to turn off Toyotas rubbish DSC is a very honest approach as it doesn’t relate to real world driving.
Paul Maric

Motor Head:

It was only fair as the others had their respective stability control programs switched off too. So we had to do the same for the Aurion.
Adam (aka Mada)

Motorhead…

I agree about the recess in the boot floor. Apparently Ford product planners asked current falcon owners if they found the boot recess a problem, most liked it.
If the boot recess is one of the only major gripes motoring journos have with the FG, it’s has nothing to worry about
Bavarian Missile

Seems that the trio of Toyota supporters simply dont like the out come of this story that being the Falcon whipped the Camrys arse so you can mention all your Toyota surveys and the worlds biggest car manufacturer in as many sentences as you like but its still not going to change the out come of this story.Truth hurts ? Seems so!
Adam (aka Mada)

Correct.
Toyota’s vehicles ‘should’ be number one as Toyota is the biggest and most profitable.
Wheelnut

Regardless of the fact that Holden and Ford sold more cars back then.. Take a particular year see how many Falcons Commodores and Coronas or whatever were made in that year then see how many of that model [as a %age] from that particluar year are still around today.

If for example Holden made 160,000 VL Commodores Ford Made 140,000 XF Falcons and Toyota made 120,000 Coronas.. and today there are 96,000 Commodores 70,000 Falcons and 48,000 Coronas – then that means that:
60% of the Commodores made in that year are still around 50% of the Falcons made in that year are still around and only 40% Cornas made in that year are still around

Even though Toyota sold less cars if there were still more of them around today [say 80,000 for example] compared to Ford and Holden then that would indicate that they more reliable as their %age would be greater…. but unfortunately for you there aren’t as many which indicates that they’re not.

which would give you a much better idea as to how reliable long lasting Toyotas are compared to Fords and Holdens.
Tomas79

Wheelnut, as I have i said, I clearly see MORE of those toyotas on road, then Holdens/Fords from that era!!
Therefore, yes the Toyotas are much more reliable!!!
TP

I believe I have given credit where its due. But a review is a short term test, the one test that the Aurion will whip the Falconin is the long term one….reliability.
Know nothing

To”Eddy the Expert” …(everybody praises the Calais).
I drove all the V6 models from Omega to Caprice,they all drive like billy carts,sound like trucks and look like they were designed by a blind apprentice,the worst cars I have driven for 20 years. The new Falcons are much better. I presently own a 2006 Maxima and it is my 38th new car, so I’ve driven a few.
To “Fenno” you are a car snob.
To “TP” a lot of people would buy Commodores if they had 125cc lawn mower motors and square wheels.
AC COBRA

Ford wins comfortably, Toyoda supporters commenting here are some of the most arrogant repetitive mind twisting juggernauts ever to grace this site, Camry, Aurion whatever the NAME or is it GAME has changed, I’m confused with Toyoda slogan’s if Totoda didn’t have a marketing team that is probably the best around toyoda would be no more successful than Proton Motor Co.

We know Truth hurts and for all the Cardigan hugging Toyo fans out there, Ford has trumped the competition in superb fashion, denying Fords ability to produce the most refined or to be blunt the best car (FG series) Australia has ever manufactured is a worry because it shows how much you don’t care about our evolved country…

Australian made car Wins, Japan made car lost, lets support a company that supports us, to much asian influence has tarnished this sunburnt land.
pg

toyota guys
if your lives are that boring that you are now condoning toyota, then i say go for it… but please keep it to yourselves in the retirement home ok?
Wheelnut

Quote {Tom-arse79] Wheelnut, as I have i said, I clearly see MORE of those toyotas on road, then Holdens/Fords from that era!! Therefore, yes the Toyotas are much more reliable!!

In WA maybe… but what if you travel around visit or include the rest of Australia.

Yet I’m amazed you can actually see other cars the road in your Prado GXL mobile fortress – I say you more like feel them as you run straight over the top of them
Wheelnut

As for your comment that unless its been restored you won’t see a road legal commodore.

Could it be that the reason Commodores and Falcons are so sought after by those wanting to build a project car is because the older models like the VB-VL are so reliable not to mention cheap and easy to repair should anything go wrong – which is important when you are a teenager looking at buying your first cara and you’re usually on a budget

Commodores have so many parts that are interchangeble with other Commodores. The wide variety of aftermarket parts and accessories also helps reduce costs. Whereas the cost of replacing/rebuilding the engine/gearbox of a 87 Corona would be nearly as much if not more than the car is actually worth – which is why people hold on to their Falcons and Commodores yet sell their Coronas

Eitherway a fully restored original commodore or Falcon will always get more at auctionthan any Toyota of the same age – they are more of a collectable.
Westy

Well said AC COBRA. I second that. Imagine what would have happened here if, however unlikely, that Toyota won this comparo according to CarAdvice. I am definitely saving pennies for my FG. Not sure what flavour but I will definitely be getting one before they stop the I6.
TP

Last check, Toyotas market share still stands at 20% while Holden and Ford COMBINED have less.
Wheelnut

And the fact that so many people prefer to restore a Flacon or Commodore as opposed to a Corona.. says alot about the people who own and drive them.

Even though most of them are trades people- usually mechanics or have mates in the auto industry to help them out.. it shows that the Holden and Ford owners are real car enthusiasts; they’re more passionate about cars they enjoy driving and take pride in maintaining their cars almost to the point where it becomes an obsession – you just have to look at the attention to detail that goes into some of the Street Machines around to see that.

Whereas your average Corona driver sees it as no more as a car a simple mode of transport which after 5 years when it starts to rattle and make funny noises or panels become loose etc they look straight away at buying another car.. which to me is ironic given that they are supposed to be so reliable nad dependable etc..
I mean if something has been there for you done everything you expected of it with very little trouble then surely you would do whatever you could to look after it and keep it a bit longer.. who knows the car you replace it with could have even more problems be less reliable [even if its a Toyota]

But then again they virtually have no choice due to the cost of repairs which I illuded to earlier
MD

AC COBRA Says:
July 26th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
“Ford wins comfortably, Toyoda supporters commenting here are some of the most arrogant repetitive mind twisting juggernauts ever to grace this site”

All die-hard fans are the same.

AC COBRA Says:
July 26th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
“Australian made car Wins, Japan made car lost, lets support a company that supports us, to much asian influence has tarnished this sunburnt land.”

Good win to Ford in this comparison, however you are opening yourself to attack by making ridiculous statements such as “to much asian influence has tarnished this sunburnt land”.

I find it strange how Ford or Holden can’t build a proper 4wd for this “sunburnt land”… indeed it is Asian influence in the resources sector that is assisting Oz in reaping the rewards from the current boom. The only vehicles you will see on a mine site are Hiluxes, Landcruisers, Pajeros, Patrols… I am yet to see a Territory or Adventra doing the rounds in the world’s toughest environment.
Bavarian Missile

Quote TP “I believe I have given credit where its due. But a review is a short term test, the one test that the Aurion will whip the Falconin is the long term one….reliability.”"

Reply

Well good for you TP seems your man enough to admit {even though the other Toyota two-sum wont} that the new Falcon has nailed the current Aurion in so many areas where it counts in actually being a car ,regarding reliability seems Toyota’s are becoming less reliable ,two guys below I mention don’t seem too happy with their Toyota’s.

This off the Klugger 2007 thread on CA last year.

kluger08 Says:
July 21st, 2008 at 5:49 pm

ive had a KXR 2wd kluger for 3 weeks since brand new. when it was 5 days old the display came up with a VSC fault and ABS fault and engine management system fault. not happy. had 300k on clock. took it in to dealer, which i wish i could name, and they reset it and without even a road test gave it back to me. sure enough 2k down the road the fault is back on. booked in again, told it needs a new computer. takes 10 days to get part in ” GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE” . so today the comp was replaced but sure enough, although this time it lasted 10k, but the error is back. so now ive left this car at the adelaide dealer untill they get it right. so are klugers lemons??????? or is this a 1 off thing and this particular adelaide dealer is incompentent????????????????

shane Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 5:19 pm

IVE HAD A SIMILAR PROBLEM, BUT MY KLUGER STALLS WITH THE ERROR BUT I CAN RESTART AND ITS OK. HAPPENS INTEMITENTLY AND TOYOTA STILL INVESTIGATING. MAYBE RELATED PROBLEM, ILL LET YOU KNOW THE OUTCOME.

kluger08 Says:
July 26th, 2008 at 12:01 pm

thanks. the service centre still has my car and no closer to fixxing problem. im getting worried about the long term reliability of the vehicle due to the fault finding, there pulling the car apart, wiring looms etc to find the electrical fault causing EMS VSC ABS faults.i wonder how long i gotta wait to get kluger back. its fast becoming a regrettable purchase. ill keep u informed.
Glen

Tom, American’s don’t want big SUVs anymore, Ford just had a big write down because they can’t sell them.
I hired two Buick’s in America recently, for a week each, and they weren’t a patch on the turbo-diesel I leased in Europe. The V6 Buick’s were thirsty and uncomfortable for all of the 4,500km I had them.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Bavarian – EXACTLY … the truth does hurt which is why you Holden and Ford fans whinge and swine about Toyota becuase they making a complete mockery of the red and blue brigade.

Selling more vehicles then Holden and Ford combined must be a heart wrenching experinace but haa … many of us car enthusiats love it with passion.

Overseas … GM is on the brink of bankruptcy while Ford just reported a quarterly loss of $9 billion – it’s largest single loss in the history of the company … ooch !!

Toyota, well … going from strength to srength.

TRUTH DOES HURT !!
AC COBRA

MD, whatever floats your boat, but I’m a proud Aussie because Falcons and Commodores have a better history than any TOY-MOTA could ever hope for, any resemblance of evolved local automotive culture passed down from generations should be protected, respected and most of all supported, sure TOYO manufactuer some cars here, geeeeeez wow wee “BIG DEAL” but I get the sense they are in it for themself’s (money hungry bas-terds) not the wider community, pumping out volume don’t always mean we are obliged to like one particular company, Ford and Holden will always be more collectable and inspirational, personally leaning more towards Ford, Holden still hold a important positive accolade.

I will support Australian History and Future, not Toyota marketing which is shoved down our throats making the public only buy what avertising say’s to buy, lucky I’m not a fool like some.

AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE OI OI OI !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tomas79

HHHmmm… Once again this forum is heading to the sh!ts with Tweedledee and Tweedledum (Wheelnut and Bavarian missile) hijacking this forum.

Wheelnut, i don’t know what you are on, since i do not Drive a Prado GXL!! Shows your lack off recognition skills when it comes to automobiles!! But yes, the Prado certainly does have a brilliant on-road visibility!! Especially when traveling on packed freeway!! The rear visibility ain’t the best, but it is still better then my previous work car, the BA falcon!!
Also for that there is the Rear mounted camera!

As for “As for your comment that unless its been restored you won’t see a road legal commodore.”

“Eitherway a fully restored original commodore or Falcon will always get more at auctionthan any Toyota of the same age – they are more of a collectable.”

Yeah, thats cos the restored Falcon and commodore had much more work done on it and parts restored. While the toyota is still running in it’s original condition apart from some regular oil and filter changes!!
Bavarian Missile

Dingo in case you haven’t noticed this thread is about a 4 car comparison not who is the biggest car manufacturer in the world,you can continue to bring up as much as you want on the size and profits of Toyota but its still not going to take away from the fact that the Falcon has won against the biggest car Manufacturer in the world in this test.

Too bad you cant give credit where credit is due!

Your filth and lies aimed at me on the Prius 2008 Concept at the London Car blog shows us all how low you are prepared to go when you cant win an argument.
TP

Wheelnut so many Fords get restored because theyve blown their engine and are rusting within 2 years of purchase hahah!

BM so Ford fairies can say ‘oh surveys aernt useful’ or ’50,000 ppl in a survey isnt enough’ BUT two examples that you provide out of thousands of Toyotas sold in Aus alone means Toyota aernt reliable!? Of course there are lemon Toyotas, but its a numbers game, 55% of Falcons need to go back to dealership for problems while Toyota topped the market with most only around 20-30% needing to go back to dealer for unscheduled maintenance.
Bavarian Missile

Tomas79………..stating facts is not hijacking you however simply cant accept the Toyota wasn’t as good as YOU thought it should be. Not man enough to congratulate the bogan brand you continue to insult, you tell us all your not a one brand manufacturer lover,pffttttt seems you cant accept it when Toyota doesn’t live up to your expectations doesn’t it.Throw your little tandy if you like your still not going to take away Falcons win in this test though!
Westy

TP maybe we just need to go back to the start of this thread and lay it out in a simple form.

1. Ford
2. Honda
3. Toyota
4. Holden

CarAdvice results after real world driving. Remember we are on the CarAdvice website here. Take it up with CarAdvice if you don’t like it.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

AC Cobra – seriuosly, you are killing me with your rot.

Toyota supports the local market every bit as much as Holden and Ford and in some facets, more so.

The Camry and Aurion are locally manufactuered just like the Falcon and Commodore while the Camry infact has a greater percentage of locally sourced components then any other.

1. What has Ford done lately :

* retrenched employment (workers)

* Decommissioned the Fairlane

* Soon to decommission the L6 in favour of an American biult Duratec V6 instead

* Reported losses

* Withdrawn notable support from the V8 Supercar

– and may the list continue.

2. What has Holden done :

* Sacked / retrenched workers

* supplied a Commodore with questionable and ongoing quality issues and a trash, thirsty, most unrefined drivetrain

* Supply the Australian market with trash 10 year old Daewoo’s and of course one of the poorest safety rated cars on the market – the pathetic 2 star Daewoo Barina.

* reported losses

* decommisioned the Ozzie 5.0 V8 in favour an oil slurping, piston slapping imported donk instead

- Yeah, real Australian that is … NOT !!

Not only is Toyota our nations largest supplier of motor vehicles but todate has maintained current employment levels while the upcoming Hybrid Camry is expected to strengthen job security (and not boost employment) as stated by Toyota Australia.

They have also invested considerably over the past few years with the introduction of the Aurion, ramping up the operations of TRD (motorsport and production), extensive modernisation of Altona, commissioning of local design and R&D facilities, approval to manufactuer the hybrid Camry (2010)and so forth.

Oh yeah – and lets not forget that the very backbone of the Australian society / culture is supported by our tradies, farmers, industries and mines all of which have long preferred the supply of Toyota 4×4′s and commercials and even more so today.

If Holden and Ford is so important to Australia, then why haven’t either of them earn’t the same respect amoung the hardest working Australian’s as Toyota has … mmm !!

Travel to the most remote, harsh, hot, dusty and challenging conditions in Oz (REAL AUSTRALIA) and who rules the roost – let me help you abit : it’s not holden or ford … PERIOD !!

Fact is, Toyota plays a significant role in the Australian Auto Industry has done for many years and no-doubt will continue to do so for many generations to come.
Tomas79

AC COBRA;
“MD, whatever floats your boat, but I’m a proud Aussie because Falcons and Commodores have a better history than any TOY-MOTA could ever hope for”

Um, are you even on this world AC Cobra? Toyota has global success, while commodore nor falcon have none!! They are so successfully they only keep on making losses!!!
Wheelnut

Quote: Selling more vehicles then Holden and Ford combined must be a heart wrenching experinace but haa … many of US car enthusiats love it with passion.

Are you serious Dingo – you have the nerve to call yourself a Car Enthusiast?

A real car enthusiast is able to recognise both the good and bad features etc of all makes and models of cars even their preferred manufacturer [we all have them]

I prefer Holdens yet I am able to admit that importing Daewoos instead of Opels is a bad idea. Just as there are some Ford fans who admit that in terms of competing with HSV ford don’t do quite enough.

Yet I am yet to find one of your comments/statements where you have actually said anything bad about Toyota let alone
something good about a car other than a Toyota

If there is an article on this site about a car which isn’t a Toyota and you don’t like a particular feature or whatever that’s fine but the least you could do is try to stay on topic and offer some constructive criticism [in a civilised manner] instead of making it a segway back to Toyota

Which you do with such regularity and consistency – so its no wonder there are people on this site who have called you ignorant narrow minded etc because it gives the impression that Toyota is the only thing you know about [in relation to cars] and you want to be involved in the discussion

Go on give it a go…. see if you can not only talk about another car but also stay on topic and act in a civilised manner with out resorting to personal attacks or insults….Surprise Us!
Wheelnut

Has anyone got a mirror for Tomas 79?
Tomas79

SPOT ON GUESS WHO,
It’s the resource boom, thats currently driving the australian economy!! Can anyone even argue that Holden and Ford have contributed as much to the australian resource sector as much as toyota has?!!
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

AC Cobra – Holden and Ford have long supplied this country with some of the poorest quality and most unreliable vehicles to have ever graced our raods … PERIOD !!

If you are proud of such crap then by all means fill your boots but incase you haven’t naticed – an increasing proportion of the Australian population are growing tired of it.

Toyota’s history in Australia is strong especially in the outback which just happens to be ‘REAL AUSTRALIA’.

Were was Holden or Ford during one of the most challenging Australian projects in history – The Snowy Moauntain Scheme – EXACTLY !!

It was the rugged nature of the Landcruiser that earn’t a honourable reputation not no Holden or Ford that’s for sure.

MD is absolutely correct – why hasn’t Holden or Ford ever been able to supply this sunburnt nation with a 4×4 / commercial that has been able to match the rugged, reliable, dependable and durable nature of Toyota.

There is a lot more to Australian motoring history then just Holden and Ford and Toyota has certainly carved it’s history markings as much as any.

akula

Funny you mention the SNS since Toyota had a neglible impact on its construction. FYI FJs appeared at the very last stages of the project, and they represented approximately 10% of the SNS fleet, as such for every FJ there were 100 Land Rovers.

Bavarian Missile

Exactly TP,thank you for saying Toyotas reliability isnt 100 percent.That was my point !

Fords heading back for warranty work I understand as do other Holden owners, still doesn’t take away from the fact that here and now the Falcon has won this test.Not only isn’t it un-economical like the Aurion but its a great car to drive ,isn’t that what people should be buying if your a car enthusiast not boring reliability like a Toyota ?
Wheelnut

Dingo in the construction of the Snowy Mountain River Scheme there were actually more VWs [both bugs and kombis] than any other car – including Toyotas because they were:
basic – simple workhorse nothing to go wrong
compact – able to make it along the narrow mountain tracks
light – didn’t get bogged in the mud or snow
economical – 1000s of kays on very little fuel
versatile – able to carry people cargo and supplies etc
and air cooled – water didnt freeze

So reallt shouldn’t you be a VW fan?
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Bavarian – Toyota has long lived up to expectation and arguably more so today then they ever have : there couldn’t possibly be greater examples then thier strong sales, reputation and respect amoung much of the community.

The Aurion and Accord are both great cars high in quality, refinement and specification and competition Holden and Ford can do without especialy in a segment that is slowing not growing.

Truth does hurt … doesn’t !!

Take the Falcon away from Ford and what have you got – not much !!

Take the Commodore away from Holden and what remains – virtually nothing !!
Wheelnut

I admit there may be more Toyotas used on Mine sites…
yet its actually the big Caterpillar and Komatsu Earthmoving Equipment [Tarax Trucks] doing all the work.
extracting the minerals etc. Then its the Freightliners and [Ozi] Kenworths transporting it to the ports for export

The only way I can see Toyotas involvement in this is that The Iron Ore comes back to Oz in the form of Toyotas

Getting the ore out of the ground or harvesting the wheat is one thing but unless you can get it to where it can be made into something useful its worthless which is why the ozi economy probably relies more on the Transport industry – Without Truckies Australia Stops
Bavarian Missile

Keep changing the subject from Ford winning against Toyota in this test Dingo, seems your just a sore loser ! Sprouting on about Toyota growth respect and reliability just makes it look worse for them when you keep running the winner of this test down. If Toyota are the best why didn’t they win,??? mmmmmm seems you cant accept the truth!
Phill

The only way I can see Toyotas involvement in this is that The Iron Ore comes back to Oz in the form of Toyotas. – LOL good one Wheelnut
Wheelnut

Yes but given that Toyota Sales rely so heavily on 4x4s and Commercial Vehicles – if you took them away Toyota and would fall to at least 5th if not lower..

I know that ATM Corolla is still Australias best selling car However given the number of advanced orders for the VE Sportwagon it could be enough for Holden to reclaim Top spot.

Having said that the one Holden Ford and Toyota should lookout for is Mazda. Particularly given the steady increase in sales of Mazda 2s 3s 6s n CX-9s that overtime they could actually become Australias No1
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Wheelnut – there were many brands on the scheme but none of them earn’t the reputation the Landcruiser did … did they !!

As for basic, give me break – they were all basic including the Cruiser yet none as rugged as the Toyota.

As for Holden and Ford – they don’t even get a mention.

It was because the proven rugged workhorse nature of the Cruiser that opened up the oppurtunity for Toyota to expands it presence and, well … what a footmark they have today.

And when have I ever stated that i don’t appreciate VW – let me help you a bit … NEVER !!

As for car enthusiast – that’s EXACTLY what i am and have been for the 34 years my ar*e has been facing the ground. There is alot more to motoring then Falcons and Commodores … A LOT MORE !!

That said – i have never said that Toyota’s are fualtless because that is bullsh*t. All manufactuers and all models have faults but the differance is – some have more then other while others have more again.

Oh yeah – and here is my challenge to do – see if you comment on any article without passing a stabbing motion towards Toyota.

Go on … give it ago !!

As for knowing about cars – i can guarantee i know a damn lot more about Holden then you do. Challenge me and find out !!

Infact, my knowledge about most brands is strong however it is people like yourself that are challenged by Toyota’s strong presance.

I just don’t like crap and that’s something you and some others have plenty of so while you keep being a clown, i’ll keep challenging.

ps. see if you can say something about Toyota !!
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Bavarain – we all know who the loser is and let me help you … it ain’t me !!

WHEELS July 2008 : Gold Star Awards

* Large $35 000 – $45 000

1. VW Passet 2.0 TDi
2. Toyota Aurion Prodigy
3. Falcon FG G6

* Large $45 000 – $60 000

1. Aurion Presara
2. Passet V6 FSI 4Motion
3. Falcon G6E

Correct me if i am wrong but in the short 2 years the Aurion has been available in Australia, it has won it’s share of awards including back to back Gold Stars from Wheels, DRIVE.com and RAC

Like is said, cars like the Aurion and Accord are examples Holden and Ford can do without
Phill

Guess Who – Ford invented the ute after a farmers wife wrote a letter wanting a more versatile car,Ford and Holden also made the utes that built this country.I have a picture of my grandfathers house being built(Hunter valley) back in the late 60′s,7 utes lined up 2 fords,5 holdens and no Toyotas.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Wheelnut – Toyota is strong across most facets of the market not just 4×4′s. Thier cars (big and small), SUV’s, 4×4′s and commercials are all strong sellers.

As for Mazda, a great brand with great cars but they won’t become No.1 any time soon because they simply do not have fleet diversity. However, what they do have is highly competitive.

It is Ford and Holden thAt need to be cautious of Mazda more so then Toyota – at present.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Phil – and who’s ute rules the roost today and has done so for many years … Toyota !!

I am aware Ford invented the ute but it has done little to secure the reputation that Toyota 4×4′s and commercials enjoy today.

The Landcruiser and less so – the Hilux, have arguably contributed more to the biulding of this nation then the utes from Holden and Ford especially today.

Travel long and remote and Toyota’s are used in far more numbers then other brand.

As for Holden and Ford utes today – they have gone soft worrying more about handling then the ability to be a geuine work hack.
guess who is a wanker

if toyotas are so reliable WHy do they need to be service every 6 months/10000km

Falcon and Commadore can get by with 12 month 15000km – same as all good quality cars

Thats twice to the mechanics for your Toyota for every one for my Ford – 2 yars old not a SINGLE problem
same for my last 3 Fords not once in for a warranty job

All manufatures have issues form time to time – Fords quality over the last 4 years is second to none
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Take a picture today – 6 Toyota’s, 3 Nissan’s and 1 Holden or Ford.

Today and tomorrow is about the survivability of companies, not yesterday.
silky

Jesus, you guys need to get out more.
Wheelnut

Dingo: Quid Pro Quo…!
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Some Toyota’s have shortened Oil and Filter changes which i who heartedly support. You can be assured these engines will be in greater operable conditions in years to come then others with less servicing.

Every maintainence component (air filter, spark plugs, timing belt, coolant and so forth) reguire less changes on my 2003 Camry Sportivo compared to 1994 Camry CSi i still have.

Oil changes are a good thing … don’t bitch about it !!

The Aurion gets by on 15 000km intervals aswell but personally, i would still change it more frequently as i always have.

My father is no different with his Mazda6 – satisfies servicing by the book except oil and filter of which he doee more frequently.

Our cars have been better for it !!
AC COBRA

Proud to be aussie because we can manufacture first class car’s, If you live in Japan you can be proud of Toyoda sewing machines and whitegoods, Guess who Dingo, you are the biggest idiot here, just because Toy-mota lost this battle big time, doesn’t mean filling this blog with repetitive arrogant hog wash.

A little reminder for those who didn’t read the comparison results (SEE BELOW)

1st > 2008 FG Ford Falcon G6E
2nd > Honda Accord V6 Luxury
3rd > Toyota Aurion Presaga > (should be last in my opinion)
4th > Holden Calais V6

Ford wins end of story, can’t hack it, well I feel sorry for u, stop crying and “GET A LIFE”.
Phill

Take a picture in 20 years – 10 cars,all toyotas,all priuses,all boaring.Thats were toyota are headed.
Wheelnut

I took a picture today: 2 VE Sportwagons [1 Voodoo 1 Red], 2 SS Utes [1 Karma 1 Atomic; 1 White Calais Sedan; and 1 Black WM Statesman…..

Although the fact I was standing outside my local Holden dealer could have something to do with it
Glen

So its happened again, the toyota shaggers are having a whinge because their chosen product lost a comparo. “Oh but it won in the Gold Star awards in Wheels”, I’ve got to have a giggle at that argument. The Gold star awards have absolutely nothing to do with how are car drives. Not one thing. Whereas every comparo I’ve read so far where the Aurion was compared to an equivalent FG Falcon it has lost. Gold Star awards are based completely on cost and the only reason the Aurions beat the Falcon in those categories was because of the Aurions cheaper insurance (No-one in their right mind would steal an Aurion).
Tomas79

AC COBRA Says:
July 26th, 2008 at 4:58 pm

“Proud to be aussie because we can manufacture first class car’s”

You are joking right?? !! Who in Europe associates Australians with making great cars???
AC COBRA

How lame people like dingo and a couple of other’s have to judge a comparison based on sales figure’s alone, resorting to such gay remark’s goes to show the power of Toyoda advertising has affected one’s brain, to reprogram twisted thinking may need an overhaul, something Toyo owners would not know the meaning of because why would u bother restoring a boring bland whitegood, no appeal, no inspiration, no character, no history, no heart, no point, just plain old mass produced fleet seller, wrapped in cardigan and 1 ply fluffy Toyleta paper.
Tomas79

Glen Says:
July 26th, 2008 at 5:38 pm

“So its happened again, the toyota shaggers are having a whinge because their chosen product lost a comparo”

Glen you idiot, i don’t see too many guys having a whinge at this comparo…. After all nobody really cares, they are all boring taxi type cars anyway…. What i see is a lot of Ford and Holden fanatics taking a swipes a Toyota, just because the Ford finally won at something!!
Tomas79

Hmmm…. If Toyota Drivers wear Cardigans, thats still classier then “wife basher” singlets or blue flannels and mullets you find your typical Ford Holden fan wears!!
AC COBRA

Here is the repeat update.

A little reminder for those who didn’t read important comparison results (SEE BELOW)

1st > 2008 FG Ford Falcon G6E
2nd > Honda Accord V6 Luxury
3rd > Toyota Aurion Presaga > (should be last in my opinion)
4th > Holden Calais V6

Ford wins end of story, can’t hack it, well I feel sorry for u, stop crying and “GET A LIFE”.
Tomas79

AC COBRA,
Good to see Ford Falcon actully winning something for once!!
Hope that helps them gain the 9 Billion Ford Lost in the last 3 Months!!
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Glen – your not having a whinge are ‘ya !!

Gold Stars emcompasses over-all ownership experiance, something most of the market weights heavily

AC Cobra – according to sales, the bulk of the Australian population must be thinking that about Ford …

* Found On Rubbish Dump

* Fix Or Repair Daily

Oh yeah – what was that article printed by CA a few days ago … Toyota the World’s No.1 Respected Car Company !!!

What exactly were you saying about soul, passionless cars …

As for Holden and Ford – not must heart and soul left : been ripped out by Toyota … HA, HA, HA !!

Thomas79 – that was a great comeback, love it !!

You made me laugh and spill half my dinner. Now the wive has that angry look at me.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Glen – the word you are looking for is ‘CLASS’ … Something Holden and Ford people know nothing about.

How you associate rattles and squeeks with soul and passion is beyond me !!

The only thing i can think of is anger everytime Joe’s Garage rubs his hands together when another Holden or Ford comes in for repairs.

If that’s your definition of passion then i truely feel sorrow for your soul.
Bavarian Missile

If there are so many Toyota owners out there how come this site only gets 3 , 2 of them holding on to each other for support at the moment ?

As AC Cobra says

“”Here is the repeat update.

A little reminder for those who didn’t read important comparison results (SEE BELOW)

1st > 2008 FG Ford Falcon G6E
2nd > Honda Accord V6 Luxury
3rd > Toyota Aurion Presaga > (should be last in my opinion)
4th > Holden Calais V6

Ford wins end of story, can’t hack it, well I feel sorry for u, stop crying and “GET A LIFE”.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Here’s a reminder :

WHEELS July 2008 : Gold Star Awards

Large Car $35 000 – $45 000

1. VW Passet 2.0 TDi
2. Toyota Aurion Prodigy
3. Ford Falcon G6

Large Car &45 000 – $60 000

1. Toyota Aurion Presara
2. VW Passet V6 FSI
3. Ford Falocn G6E

Oh Yeah

* Falcon sales at lowest ever

* Ford Australia reports, yet another loss

* Ford Motor Co reports biggest ever quarterly loss

* Ford Fairlane – gone

* Ford L6 – going

* Ford Jobs – retrenching

shall i continue …
Bavarian Missile

Class, something Ford and Holden owners dont know anything about? Gee Dingo you would know all about class wouldnt you,your full of it.

What was it you said about me again on that Prius blog again,pfftttt class is more than about what you drive its how you conduct yourself and we all know how classy you are and your little side kick Tomas it seems”wife basher singlets” shakes head!

Perhaps you can explain your perception of class in a car Dingo!
AC COBRA

Thomas79 crawl back into your cave, why are you so worried about sales figures and dollar signs, I don’t care sore loser, maybe Ford or GM will go bankrupt which ya hoping for, but in the meantime these companies are still here, you don’t have a case.

Here is the repeated update.

A little reminder for those who didn’t read important comparison results (SEE BELOW)

1st > 2008 FG Ford Falcon G6E
2nd > Honda Accord V6 Luxury
3rd > Toyota Aurion Presaga > (should be last in my opinion)
4th > Holden Calais V6

Ford wins end of story, can’t hack it, well I feel sorry for u, stop crying and “GET A LIFE”.
Wheelnut

It may seem bogan-like however; Real Holden and Ford fans are proud of their beloved cars etc that they show their support any way they can mainly through buying/wearing various HRT/HSV or FPR/FPV Merchandise [- even to the extreme of decking out their bedroom in Red or Blue para-FAN-alia.. Last Year HSV/HRT sold close to $20m in Apparel which went back into development of the Race and Rod cars

Yet you don't see that many people proudly showing their support for Toyota by wearing TRD T-Shirts [If there are any].
Bavarian Missile

To reiterate again for those that cant understand what the conclusion was.

Conclusion of this test is

“Although the Aurion came with a considerable amount of kit, the engine and handling package was a bit spasmodic at times. It didn’t offer any flare when it came to the drive and became quite thirsty during performance testing.

Needless to say, the Falcon really is an impressive all rounder. The engine’s level of enthusiasm, coupled with the amazing gearbox made it quite a riveting drive when put to the test, it also dominated when tootling around, making it the perfect luxury six-cylinder sedan on the Australian market in this price bracket.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Bavarian – because they’re ‘out n about’ buying Toyota’s

And we all know needs support, don’t start skirting on us … HA, HA, HA !!

* Holden + Ford = less then Toyota

* Toyota Aust reports $232 million profit

* Ford reports $82 deficit

* Holden expected to report more losses

Support – yes, we know who needs it … and alot of !!

OH WHAT A WARM AND FUZZY FEELING
http://. Naughtyius Maxiumus

The country is an aging population MISSILE…..thats what leds people to by solid, devoid of class cars in Toyota range. WHAT EXCUSE HAS TOYOTA IN DROPPING CELICA, MR2 AND SUPRA DOWNUNDER…….its as I say! Ye Old Farts Closet Bland Cars!
http://. Naughtyius Maxiumus

And I wait with baited breathe when Toyota rekindle those hot lookers like MR2 and Celica. If I want a hot looker I gotta get a Corolla or Yaris……LOL HA HA HA HA HA HA! I would not consider those stunners in its class as i30 shytes all over them on looks and so do most! Toyota has reached the pinnacle and they charge for it and offer nothing exciting…..bit like Coca Cola. They bring out the 1.5lt drink and charge more for it then the 2litre at time of release and then up the 2litre and the dills keep buying and not think they are getting ripped off!
http://. Naughtyius Maxiumus

You buy Toyota you buy a name and you buy premium $ with no massive extras! That day wont last!
Wheelnut

Awaiting immature respnse from Dingo – in relation to BMs last statement complete with his standard Personal Attacks or Insults…. Shouldn’t be long now.

Hes also bound to mention:
- A Survey
- How Toyota Screwing Ford and GM to the wall with a size 20 steel capped boot [physically impossible]
- How hes getting a warm and fuzzy feeling [incontinence?]

or something like that…. Hes just so predictable
Wheelnut

See I told you!!!!
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

WHEELS July 2008 pg 67 … Falcon G6 vs Commodore Berlina vs Aurion Prodigy

quote

” Witin the first 500km it was clear the Toyota had the drivetrian contest all but wrapped up. The slurpy V6 burbles along at cruising speed while the auto shifts with near seamless precision. But bury the loud pedal and the V6 responds with urgent vigour, pulling hard and strong to redline while emitting a near sports-car-like howl. The transmission too rises to the challenge snapping home crisp, full-throttle changes”

unquote

WHEELS May 2007 pg 102

quote

” Toyota v6 delivers gobs of creamy power … the six speed auto shifting with the syrupy precision of a Lexus costing many times more “3

unquote

I have many reports on how good the 2GR-FE engine is and will be all to willing to share more !!

Shall i continue … !!
Bavarian Missile

mmmmmmmmm,” Toyota Aust reports $232 million profit”
” Holden + Ford = less then Toyota”

” Ford reports $82 deficit”

” Holden expected to report more losses”

Thats what I love about this country Dingo to see the ones that are down beat those big boys,seems you dont like to see the those that are down win ……Perhaps Toyota need to put some of their profit into making a drivers car not something that you statisticians love!
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Wheelnut – something different …

Toyota (TRD) finished 1st, 2nd and 4th today in day one (of two) in the 4th round of the Australian Rally Championship in South Australia.

Ford has yet to be mentioned in the first 16 … i was just wondering what happened to all of that soul and passion with Ford today !!

HA, HA, HA !!

Gotta love it …
Wheelnut

Just finished reading the First issue of Top Gear Australia and in the back where it lists the prices etc of the various cars in regards to the Toyota Aurion it says:

Toyotas contribution to the big-car landscape in oz; its “distinctive” to look at and packed with fruit. Not especially exciting to drive though it is smooth.

Don’t be fooled by the Aurion TRD its quick but lacks the handling etc to make it special
AC COBRA

LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

GOOD ONE B. MISSILE , THAT WAS A PERFECT STATEMENT, SUMS UP TOYODA IN A BEIGE COLOURED CARDIGAN KIND OF WAY……..
AC COBRA

WHO’S LEADING THE WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP DINGO HMMMMMMMMMMMMM AHHHHHHHHHHH, I KNOW, A FORD FOCUS OOOOOOOOOOOOOOCCCCCCHY !!!!!!! YEAH BUT THATS NOT WORTH MENTIONING IS IT..
Wheelnut

But aren’t MASTER-BATES and Co racing special purpose built customised AWD Corollas? – Not a Stock Standard FWD Factory Aurion similar to the one featured in this article.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Latest edition of ‘Australian New Car Buyer’ … the magazine Wheelnut (or was the Andrew M – not sure)stated themselves to be one of the more respected publications.

Toyota Aurion

page 136 …

quote ”

Dynamics are confident, secure and stable on a rough road and when pointing into a corner. Understeer and oversteer -the ban of big front drivers – are only evident if you push the Aurion very hard into or out of a tight bend. Strong grip from the Dunlop tyres help here. The steering itself is accurate and quite direct though without great road feel.

The brakes are powerful and progressive. Stability control has a relatively high intervention treshold and cannot be switched off.

Ride comfort on any surface is excellant”

Unquote

Things we like :

* At base model level, class leading perfromance, refinement and economy

* Toyota’s quality, reliability and durability

* Excellant ride/ handling compromise for Australian roads

* plenty of space

* class leading standard equipment list

1. Safety – 4 / 5

2. Green Vehicle Guide – 4 / 5

3. Performance – 4 / 5

4. Handling – 3 / 5

5. Quality and Reliability – 5 / 5

6. Comfort – 3 / 5

7. Value For Money – 3 / 5

OVERALL 4 / 5 STARS
realcars

Those Aurions must be tinny to be 200kgs lighter and similar size to the rest.

Honda Cylinder deactivation just another jap gimmick it would seem they pinched from GM.
Gee isn’t the Jap expert at pinching others ideas.

Amazing what Ford Australia can achieve when they try.

Resale, well buy anything new and u loose a motza especially if u trade it in a short period.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

oops … made a mistake.

Value for money is listed as 4/5 not 3/5 !!
Bavarian Missile

KA-POW AC Cobra! “”Ford Focus currently leading WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP!”"
Wheelnut

This statement [made earlier today] is so funny I was ROTFLOL

QUOTE: If Holden and Ford is so important to Australia, then why haven’t either of them earn’t the same respect amoung the hardest working Australian’s as Toyota has … mmm !!

So thanks Dingo for showing you do infact have a funny side
http://. Naughtyius Maxiumus

DINGO….

Point 7…..sums up my previous comment on Toyota. Go build a shrine out of Toyota’s as you worship bland cars so that makes you a …….. person then. OOCH (for the one’s with an education it is actually oouch).
I6orNothing

Ford G6E tops this comparo…..ooch !!
I6orNothing

Ford G6E tops the fuel economy figures…..ooch !!
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Wheelnut – Excellant … i read that mag a few days ago while pushing the shopping trolley around for the wive at Coles.

Do me a favour and hightlight what it says about the handling of the Kluger !!

Correct me if i am wrong but is bags every statement suggesting the dynamics of the Kluger is inferior and dangerous.

Infact, i believe it says something like those comments have been downright stupid, ridiculous and completely false.

Go to the Kluger section and quote exactly what is says …

This should be good !!
http://. Naughtyius Maxiumus

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCH INDEED! Gr8 points!
realcars

How can New Car Buyer rate durability/reliability when the Aurion has only been out for two years?

3/5 ain’t too flash either.

What has this got to do with the Falcon The Great Australian Road Car winning THIS contest?
Wheelnut

Ive never said that New Car Buyer is a respecteD magazine [and I don't think Andrew would either]

Infact it was you or one of your HOMIES who referrred to it first [on another blog] inorder to supoort a poorly founded/based arguement.

That is after you had hikacked it as from memory the article had nothing to do with a Toyota

To me the only thing New Car Buyer Magazine is good gor; is incase you happen to run out of toilet paper
http://. Naughtyius Maxiumus

That was oooooooooooooooooouch indeed!
Bavarian Missile

Whats up Dingo, scrambling through your publications trying to discredit this review cause you don’t like the result.

They missed one out in that review as well

Where did it come on the boring scale out of 5?
Tomas79

How typical of bogans to keep brining up passion and handling, things which are “Horses for Courses” and unquantifiable!! Since Toyotas sells, and unlike Ford and Holden actually sells well, and corolla being the most sold car in australia, obviously Toyota has ample of both and more!!

Wheelnut Says; “Yet you don’t see that many people proudly showing their support for Toyota by wearing TRD T-Shirts”

That is because the typical Toyota owner has style, and isn’t into wearing cheap Kmart shirts just to flash a brand of the car they own!! That is a bogan trait!!
This exactly reminds me of Peter Griffin in Family Guy, how when he became a redneck he paints over the rear view window of his ute, “Because now that I have embraced the redneck life style, I need to show everyone what my believes are!!”

Bavarian Missile Says;
“If there are so many Toyota owners out there how come this site only gets 3 , 2 of them holding on to each other for support at the moment ?”

They are outside enjoying a drive!! Most intelligent people come here, read the reviews, and when they see that the blog is dominated by Falcadore fairies they don’t bother wasting their time!!
realcars

Which TuRD was it?
realcars

How lucky we are that u are the exception Tomas69!
Bavarian Missile

Definitely a Ouch NM……….Someone explain what a WIVE is?

Or do people spell the way they speak?
realcars

So according to Thomas69 all u people out there with the good taste not to drive a Toyota are BOGANS.

Talk about a sore looser.LOL.
Wheelnut

How ironic that Tomas79 should trefer to the Animated TV Series The Family Guy; inorder to try and degrade Ford and Holden Fans

Given that the Family Guy is Far More Populat in Australia than the Aurion and I believe it has won more Awards than the Aurion as well
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Realcars – just cope it sweet and stop whining.

Wheelnut – if it wasn’t you then it must have been Andrew but i do remember one of you folks passing comment not so long back that ‘Australian New Car Buyer’ is one of the more respected publications.

Don’t you dare start back-tracking on me … !!

Bavarian – Toyota is currently leading all 3 tiers of NASCAR racing – Sprint Cup, Nationwide & Craftsman Trucks -while Ford is positioned 3rd (behind Toyota) in an American race on American soil … oooch, ooops – Ooouch !!

Even better, Toyota has been ordered to detune thier engines (Nationwide) becuase Chevrolet, Ford and Dodge have been whinging like mad cows about Toyota’s greater output.

Basically, Toyota is putting the American manufactuers to complete shame and they are hating it with a passion. As stated, they are concerned about the possible side effects af lossing greater sales due to Toyota’s dominate reign.

Go to NASCAR.com and read all obout it !!

What a bunch of losers… no different to what happened to Nissan when they squashed the aspirations of local V8 fans.

Holden (GM) and Ford fans are nothing but big mouths but when they start losing ‘fair n squarely’ they become ‘big mummy girls’ and don’t the heavens open up with tears.

Toyota lead the WRC for 3 years before they abandoned it to form what is now the Toyota / Panasonic F1 team.

Locally, Ford dosn’t even get a mention in the ARC while Ford has just cut considerable support with Dick Johnson and the Triple 8 Team amoung those affected.
http://aca Guess

Bavarian – we all know who’s good at scrambling … don’t we !!

I’m not trying to discredit the review at all. Infact, it was good and about what i expected. However, each and every reviewer have thier opinion.

What’s wrong – don’t you like other opinions !!

Oh yeah, and i’m still waiting for Wheelnut’s quote on the the Kluger … mmm !!
My name is dingo (Aka) and I feel like a sore loser knowing Ford won so easily

Sorry my review of Toyota aurion taking from
Latest edition of ‘Australian New Car Buyer’ was incorrect.

quote ”

Things we hated :

Aurion dynamics are useless, very loose and unstable on a rough road and when pointing into a corner. Understeer was major with every turn, obviously being FWD compared to RWD, front wheel spinning, skinny wheel driving fans will love this attribute – totally evident when you push the Aurion, very soft into or out of a tight bend. Weak grip from the plastic tyres don’t help here. The steering itself is terrible and quite indirect and has no road feel.

The brakes are lifeless and don’t respond at all. Stability control has a relatively high interfering jolt but can be switched off if it gives people any headache’s.

“Ride comfort on any surface is hard, also not very forgiving”

Unquote

Things we like :

* At base model level, class loser, bad performance, refinement not present and economy is way over average. tested 15L/100

* Toyota’s advertising really fools people in thinking all thier cars have reliability and durability but that is wrong in a nut shell.

* Horrible ride/ handling not suited to Australian roads

* plenty of cardigan space

* bottom end standard equipment list

1. Safety – 1 / 5

2. Green Vehicle Guide – 2 / 5

3. Performance – 1.5 / 5

4. Handling – 1 / 5

5. Quality and Reliability – 1 / 5

6. Comfort – 1 / 5

7. Value For Money – .05 / 5

OVERALL 1.2 / 5 STARS
TP

Interesting points RE Drive Gold Star awards…. seems to conflict with the result here. Be interesting to see how points were allocated in a test like this (unless I missed it), perhaps to much weighting is placed on performance in a market of cars (cheap luxury) where it doesnt matter to the potential customer.
Jesse james

OK Dingo, Guess Who, Tomas79, and all you knobheads put together.

Why on earth do you think the Corolla has been the highest selling car recently?? It’s becasue of the HIGH PRICE OF FUEL!! Can you guys SERIOUSLY be that retarded?? Geez!! Go back 10 years, and the Corolla had no hope!!

I don’t see why you toyota lovers can’t see the truth here.

1) 2008 FG Ford Falcon G6E
2) Honda Accord V6 Luxury
3) Toyota Aurion Presara
4) Holden Calais V6

NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LITTE BOYS PLAY WITH YOUR WILLIES, THE FORD STILL WON.

You guys have to eat s**t and deal with it.

Later!
TP

Where are those figures from? They are complelety made up, 1/5 for safety (despite being the topped ranked in the class)? 1.5/5 for performance (despite being the quickest)?. These are two of the most obvious inconsistencies.
TP

What kind of a piss poor excuse is that for Corolla sales. Is the Corolla the only small car in the market? NO. Its got the sales because its a superior vehicle.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Well, well, well … how good is this – the Holden and Ford brigade are losing grip and starting with thier historical … ‘this is not fair get rid of them act’

I LOVE IT – I REALLY DO !!

Nissan embarrassed Holden and Ford so what did they do … !!

Toyota embarrassing Chevrolet and Ford (NASCAR) so what are they doing … !!

Toyota fans embarrassing Holden and Ford on CA so what are they starting to do … !!

How remarkable is that trend.

Boo hoo … HA, HA, HA !!
Wheelnut

Quote [GUESS July 26th 7:24]

What’s wrong – don’t you like other opinions !!

That’s rich Dingo coming from you…. it seems you’re the one who has a problem with the fact that other people have an opinion that is different to yours.

Given the fact that you often resort to personal attacks and insults etc.. Particularly Towards BM – don’t like losing to a WOMAN do you?

Not to mention the problem you have that you find it necessary to change your name inorder to back up one of your previous statements – where as the rest of us have stuck with the same name
Grandeur owner

If anyone considers buying Toyota Aurion, test drive Hyundai Grandeur before making any decision….As long as you test drive Grandeur, I am sure you buy Grandeur instead of Aurion, actually as I did….Seeing is believing..
Wheelnut

Quote [GUESS July 26th 8.06pm]

“….Toyota fans embarrassing Holden and Ford on CA.”

If thats what you think then you are obviously Angle Parked in a Parallel universe
AC COBRA

Toyoda fans eg. (TP above) are so gullible, must be because Toyo advertising campaigns have totally distroyed any reality checks they had left and now have a one way ticket to Boring bland fleet world of whitegood madness.

I have worked it out Toyo fans, you don’t read the fine print, only interested in pictures and headlines.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Jesse James … seriuosly, you are killing me !!

‘Play with willies’ – that was great, you made me laugh … CHEERS !!

Oh yeah, the Corolla is a strong seller just like the Mazda3 becuase it is a good car and has been steadfast for many years.

No denying Fleet sales help but according to DRIVE.com privates sales equate to approx 60% of all Corolla Sales compared to approx 80 – 84% fleet for Falcon and Commodores.

Actually – while i’m at it … they also highlighted that the Aurion currently sells in greater numbers to the private market then the Falcon.

HOW GOOD’S THAT !!

ps. when have any of us ever said the Falocn wasn’t rightful for it’s 1st placing … let me give you a helping hand – NONE OF US EVER HAVE.

Go through the comments and show me were myself, Thomas79 or TP have actually passed such a comment.

I’ll be waiting !!

Heaven help us – the tears are starting to fall from the Ford fairies.
MD

Damn this blog’s gone to crap. Still no one has answered why the new G6E doesn’t have xenon’s! Those, and also better alloys and rear light treatment and this car would definitely be the best large car in this price bracket – no contest.

AC COBRA Says:
July 26th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
“MD, whatever floats your boat, but I’m a proud Aussie because Falcons and Commodores have a better history than any TOY-MOTA could ever hope for, any resemblance of evolved local automotive culture passed down from generations should be protected, respected and most of all supported, sure TOYO manufactuer some cars here, geeeeeez wow wee “BIG DEAL” but I get the sense they are in it for themself’s (money hungry bas-terds) not the wider community, pumping out volume don’t always mean we are obliged to like one particular company, Ford and Holden will always be more collectable and inspirational, personally leaning more towards Ford, Holden still hold a important positive accolade.”

I’m a proud Aussie too, however unlike you aren’t adverse to the positives contributed by another car maker.

You are one deluded individual if you think Holden and Ford aren’t just as focused on profit making as Toyota (or any other maker for that matter)!! How are Holden and Ford doing more for the wider community than Toyota? I hate to sound like Dingo but perhaps I should pull out some export figures and employement figures for people such as yourself who think Toyota contribute nothing worthwhile.

AC COBRA Says:
July 26th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
“I will support Australian History and Future, not Toyota marketing which is shoved down our throats making the public only buy what avertising say’s to buy, lucky I’m not a fool like some.”

In the 4WD business it’s not just marketing, it’s actually well known that Holden and Ford cannot make cars for the tough Aussie outback. I’ve worked on mine sites for 20 years, and the Rodeos etc. that have been trialed have failed miserably. Only the Japanese built vehicles can travel and survive in those harsh conditions.

AC COBRA Says:
July 26th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
“AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE OI OI OI !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ”

Now you sound like one of those tossers that support Lleyton Hewitt…
Grandeur owner

Ford Falcon G6E is certainly good car…Nobody would deny it .. but I would not buy it simply because it is not reliable….As JD power has proved, European and America car is generally unreliable compared to Japanese and Korean car.
http://aca Guess Who aka !!

Seriusoly people – take it easy and slow down becuase you are killing with me laughter at the moment… you really are !!

I’m trying to eat some yummy Choc / peppermint Ice Cream and choke on it when i read some of the replys.

LAUGHTER … IT’S GOOD – I LOVE IT !!

Keep going, you-all are making my night … you truely are.

‘Play with willies’ … that was great.
TP

MD Im with you on the xenons… Ive mentioned it in the past; projector xenons, LED brake lights and dual exhausts are std spec on decent cars these days, the G6E loses out and for this fact, I think it would be hard to part with $46k for it… thats alot of money, approx $65k pretax earnings!!!
AW

Everyone here really needs to grow up, and get over the whole Holden/Ford vs. Toyota debate. 3 of the 4 cars here are pretty decent cars and 1 isn’t that good. And that one car is the VE Calais. I am about to purchase one of these four cars, and my money is going to either the Accord V6-L or G6E or Sportivo ZR6. I will never buy another Holden, I currently drive one, and I absolutely hate it. It isn’t even three years old yet and it is falling to bits. Less than 2 months to go! For once I don’t agree with anything that BM or Wheelnut has brought to the table. Most of the ‘Toyota supporters’ are saying is true. My neighbour has just bought a new Kluger, and it is a brilliant car. If I needed an SUV like that, I would purchase it straight away. I purchase my cars based on reliability, cost, comfort and space. All 3 of the cars that I am considering fulfill these requirements, unlike the Calais.
Jesse james

Piss poor argument? Its perfectly valid..

If it was and has been such a superior vehicle why wasn’t it outselling the Holden and Falcon up until quite recently?

BECAUSE OF OF FUEL PRICES DUMBO!!!

Wake up and smell the coffe TP!!
Jesse james

As for your comment Dingo:
“I’m trying to eat some yummy Choc / peppermint Ice Cream and choke on it when i read some of the replys.
‘Play with willies’ … that was great.”

2 points…
1) It would be grand if you choked
2) The G6E still won so you still have to eat s**t and deal with it
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

MD – it hasn’t gone to crap, it’s funny.

Have a laugh … it’s good !!

I’ll be serious for a minute : The Falcon is good and a deserving winner but seriuosly, Ford have got a long hard battle ahead of them to stay afloat especially sustaining local manufactuering in Australia. Ford retaining European sourced cars is a good move and should prove beneficial unlike Holden and it’s new found passion of Daewoo Motors.

The Aurion is also a damn good car and certainly a competitor that will prove it’s fruits and no-doubt will only get better in time but unlike Ford, Toyota doesn’t need to pull a bunny out the hate to stay afloat.

The FG is a good move from Ford but it needs to be as the FG really can be the make or break model, tinkering on wire i guess you can say.

As for the L6, a great donk and always been a hearty tower albiet questionable reliability has long been a weakness. However, as the engine is coming of age – Ford ia about to abandon it for a yank source example instead … how stupid.

I know Ford Australia didn’t make that decision but all the same, it’s not gonna help.

That’s me been seriuos for once and i hope you have had a good laugh as much as myself.
Tomas79

HEHEHEHEHEH…. These faladore fairies are loosing the plot!!

Jesse james, since when is the corolla the only small economical car on the aussie market???! People buy it simple cos it is a good looking and reliable car, that is simply superior in it’s price bracket!! I’m sure it’s probably not the most economical small car, so your argument goes straight out the window!!

“My name is dingo (Aka) and I feel like a sore loser knowing Ford won so easily “, obviously you need your medication!! I wonder who this person really is? I bet it is Bavarian missile!!

Bavarian Missile, If picking me up on my spelling is the best counter-argument you can do, why do you even bother coming here??! Sure My spelling isn’t perfect, but at least i can speak 3 unrelated languages fluently and understand even more!! And as for your name, I bet you have never even lived in Bavaria!!
Grandeur owner

Jesse..

Most people hate unreliable car..That’s reason why Toyota outsells Ford and Holden….
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Jesse – seriously, you are killing me !!

Ford and Holden have equal opportunity to cash in on the shifting market as much as Toyota, Mazda, Honda and many other manufactuers but seem to be somewhat … stagnant in growth.

So far this year Ford has boosted sales by 2% (marginal) while Holden has actually declined compared to this in 2007 by nearly 10 000 units.

Toyota … haa, through the roof and into space !!

Oh yeah, Ford and Holden have equal opportunity to cash in the mining / resource boom aswell but once again … not as much

WHY …
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Grandeur – Holden and Ford combined.
AC COBRA

It’s so humbling to see just three passionate Toyo supporters here blogging thier little hearts out, but for all the wrong reasons, you just can’t get over the fact aurion lost another comparison review.

Here is the repeated update.

A little reminder for those who didn’t read important comparison results (SEE BELOW)

1st > 2008 FG Ford Falcon G6E
2nd > Honda Accord V6 Luxury
3rd > Toyota Aurion Presaga > (should be last in my opinion)
4th > Holden Calais V6

Ford wins end of story, can’t hack it, well I feel sorry for u, stop crying and “GET A LIFE”.
Tomas79

Jesse James,
If the fuel prices are the only reason people buy corollas, whats up with Holdenwoo astras, vivas, barinas? And Ford Fiestas and Focuses??
Jesse james

Tomas79:
“Jesse James,
If the fuel prices are the only reason people buy corollas, whats up with Holdenwoo astras, vivas, barinas? And Ford Fiestas and Focuses??”

Yes, the Corolla has a good reputation as far as a SMALL car goes.

But again wally, I ask, if it was and is so good, why wasn’t it outselling the Commodore and Falcon? It’s so simple you dumbo! It’s due to the escalating FUEL PRICES!!!

It’s not bloody rocket science?!?!
Tomas79

AC COBRA, for a simple minded fella like your self, i know it is a bit too complex to comprehend that true car enthusiasts such as Guess who, TP, and myself are not disputing this comparo. Only replying to some of the incorrect and false toyota sledging comments, made by one brand loyal followers such as your self!!
Jesse james

Oh yes.. I almost went off topic with you losers again…

I almost forgot to RE-ITERATE for the dummies amongst us:
The G6E still won so you still have to eat s**t and deal with it :D

^^ Read that and deal with it little boys
Grandeur owner

Guess..

You should have read JD Power quality survey!!! Do you know why Korean Fridge outsells other brands such as Japanese European counterparts? That’s because Korean products are more reliable and most importantly they are much cheaper!!!! Simply speaking Most bang for your buck!!!
Tomas79

Jesse James,
I just like your self, do not know all the facts behind the sale figures of corollas back then. Maybe it was the waiting list, or the value for money that put people off!! But if its purely the cost of fuel, that drew people to corollas, wouldn’t it drive them to more economical cars in the class?? Sure the cost of fuel had some impact, but i doubt people would change in their falcadores for a corolla just cause of that!!
Jesse james

LOL @ Tomas79s response!!

If you can’t work out that the cost of fuel has driven people into smaller cars, you are thicker than I first thought!

Like I said before.. wake up and smell the coffee boy!!
Jesse james

Not to mention it is well touted in the media!!
Tomas79

Grandeur Owner..
I know a guy how got himself a KIa magentis, but that was purely cos of the unbelievable finance they gave him. 10% deposit, and nothing else to pay for 2 years interest free!! along with a 6 year warranty!! thats practically giving it away!! Sure Korean cars have improved in quallity recently, they might be even better in reliability then the local Fords and Holdens… But then again thats not saying much… And still, that doesn’t mean it anywhere near a toyota!!
Tomas79

Jesse James, as i said before, Don’t fords or holdens make small cars??
Jesse james

Tomas, and I did not say that the Corolla was the best IN CLASS? (I.e. small cars)

YES I DID – THEREFORE YOU RETARD IT WOULD BE THE BEST SELLING OF THE SMALL CARS THAT THE MARKET HAS NOW TURNED TO.
Westy

I have seen quite a few posts here by Guess who aka…

I noticed he is picking what he wants out of articles rather than the results. It seems the results are a problem for him.

Wheels July 2008

“Aurion, in Wheels road test finishes 3rd no question”

“Just as unequivocal is taht Fords FG Falcon has pulled off the classic leap frog manouvre……it’s combination of fine dynamics, well considered interior and strong responsive drivetrain make a highly persuasive case.”

” For the driving enthusiast the FG is the obvious choice”

So here are the results of the Wheels Road Test

Ford
Holden
Toyota

and……here are the results of CarAdvice road test.

Ford
Honda
Toyota
Holden.

Anyone else care to quote a road test of significance ?

Seems like everyone except the pro Toyota people can see it isn’t as good as they think. Sheesh.
Jesse james

Why does it seem I am talking to such a dumb knob?!?
Tomas79

Jesse James,
“Good Reputation” and “Best in Class” are not quite the same!!
Bavarian Missile

oh whats the mater Tomas79……….I was talking to Dingo but it seems you are Dingo if you have a WIVE!Now why wouldn’t that surprise me. Tomas Ive been on this site for over 12 months you need to learn to pick you battles and the intellect of those your arguing with,dont like the truth from me so you insinuate things…pfftt of course you would!

Grow up and stop being a spoilt kid that you are.

Ford won this test just live with the fact and move on!
Jesse james

WOW Westy! Thankyou for posting the results in their ENTIRETY unlike the slimy AKA Guess Who!!

So even Wheels touts the FG as a Toyota beater.

Thank you for that.

Tsk tsk tsk.. Guess Who.. who would have thought you would try and deceive the people of Car Advice??

Disappointed in you Guess Who.. disappointed…
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Jesee James – the Corolla’s outsells the Commodore and Falcon now … am i wrong – NO !!

If Holden and Ford are so good, why is Toyota outselling them combined ??

Mmm …
Tomas79

BM, Point still stands, with pointing out spelling mistakes!!
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Jesse – when you yarn to yourself you will get that dead knob feeling … !

I hope you are not playing with your willy !!
Jesse james

LOL @ Guess Who! I really AM dealing with a child LOL

Read again DUMBO…. (taken from a prev post of mine:
“Yes, the Corolla has a good reputation as far as a SMALL car goes.

But again wally, I ask, if it was and is so good, why wasn’t it outselling the Commodore and Falcon? It’s so simple you dumbo! It’s due to the escalating FUEL PRICES!!!

It’s not bloody rocket science?!?!”

Note the WHY WASN’T it.. note i said “WHY ISN’T IT”.

GEEZ. Its not just about quality you retard.. SKYROCKETING FUEL PRICES – PEOPLE ARE NOT BUYING LARGE CARS ANYMORE.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN FUEL PRICE AND THE SIZE OF THE VEHICLE BOUGHT??

Woah… you guys really need to go back to year one!! LOL!!
Jesse james

**EDIT

“..note i said “WHY ISN’T IT”.”

SHOULD READ

“..NOT i said “WHY ISN’T IT”.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Westy – correCt me if i am wrong but the Aurion did infact beat the FG in the Gold Star Awards … mmm !!

Would you like help to find that article ??
Bavarian Missile

WHY are Toyota selling more cars? Cause their relying on their previous history of reliability and they are gurus at shoveling Toyota advertising down your throat similar to the Toyota duo we have here currently that I think is all Dingo anyway now!

Toyota are filling a void in the market that being one for the boring non car enthusiast that simply cares for survey results as our terrible two-sum do!

Im off for the night had enough of reiterating the facts and results of this test,time for some Wheelnut time!
Al Juraj

The Falcon is a great piece of work, and the G6 is unmistakably FG unlike the other variants where you have to look closer to distinguish them from the BF. It trounces on the Commodore big time and I hope Aussies will wake up and go for the big six that’s quicker, more economical and perhaps better built.

Honda has also done a good job in the Accord, especially in the dash. It’s obviously derived from a 5-Series and its 3/4 view is nice, but the two long rectangular garnishes at the back just ruin everything, possibly its only major flaw (hinting bu++lift in a couple of years or so). The 6-4-3 engine sounds good on paper but doesn’t quite deliver as promised. Being the most powerful of the group, it’s ironic to see it do the slowest acceleration times, which is probably on account of Honda’s usual lack of low-end torque. Fuel consumption is also not impressive unlike what’s expected of an engine that has advanced written all over it, or at least on the brochure. It’s newer than the Aurion and narrowly won because of more space and more composed handling.

The Aurion, as expected, is the drag strip leader. The engine is no doubt better than the Honda’s, consuming less fuel other than delivering better performance. The six-speed auto is a great ally (contrary to the four-speed the Corolla gets) ensuring that the engine’s potential is maximised. But it’s starting to age and at the end of the day is just a V6 Camry that doesn’t have sportiness in its vocabulary.

Finally, the Calais may still be arguably the best looking here, but doesn’t quite measure up everywhere else. They will need to update this car with more power, an extra cog and a more inviting interior. It’s also the most expensive to run. I hope the entire nation doesn’t deceive itself anymore by buying this thing. Holden ain’t doing anything unless you stop patronising it.
realcars

Looks like the FG Falcon slams the CamAurion again!!!!!!!!!

Ooouch that hurts!!! 200 killer whatsss????

Hope Toyota is ready for law suits from Geros with broken wrists.LOL
realcars

Actually if u could drive the CamAurion in reverse fast enough U might be able to improve the handling.LOL.

No wonder u can’t turn the ESP etc off.LOL.
AW

All of you need to grow up. The Aurion is a nice car, the FG is a nice car and the Accord is brilliant. The Holden is awful. Toyota’s are decent cars, and I would rather buy one over a European that costs thousands to service every time it needs one, and costs just as much to get parts for it. Yes, thats right I would rather one over a Euro. A relative of mine has a BMW 525i and an X53.0d and it costs $2000 for a MINOR service each. Hate to think what a major service would cost him!
Jesse james

Anyways boys (Tomas79 + Guess Who) I am off for tonight headng out for dinner as I actually have a life! Judging from both of yours’ previous post history, its obvious you guys don’t!

Have fun stroking each other’s…… egos (haha)

Later!

PS. Oh OH! I ALMOST FORGOT!! The G6E beat the Aurion… hehe I love it when you boys have to eat s**t

And one more time.. when u get lost about sales and start talking about who sells more… just pause for a second and say “HANG ON, WHY DIDNT THE COROLLA SELL SO MUCH WHEN FUEL WAS MUCH CHEAPER?? HMMM??
http://aca GuessWho aka … !!

Jesse James – the Corolla outsells the Commodore and Falcon NOW … am i wrong – let me help you abit because you need it … NO !!

I’ll say again, if Holden and Ford are so good … why is Toyota outselling them combined. Toyota’s current sales in Australia is absolutley huge and account for nearly a quarter of the market alone.

Why carn’t Holden ad Ford do that – simple … because they carn’t

And yes, i do understand the relationship between fuel prices and size of vehicles so explain the booming sales of SUV’s and 4×4′s to the private market !!

This will be good …

Fact is clown, the large car/ family size segment is the only market in the auto industry that is sliding downwards while medium cars have held taught.

That said – small cars, SUV’s and 4X4′s are all booming

Once again – am i wrong … NO !!

You are nothing …
AC COBRA

Yeah Thomas79 I rather be simple minded then compelled to wipe my mouth with 1 ply Toyleta paper, stop being a keyboard warrior and accept the fact Ford beat Toyo in every department.

GIVE UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOONE LIKES A LOSER
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Jesse James – here is much better advice … stop for a second and think to yourself : why is the Falcon and Commodore recording thier lowest ever sales while bigger, heavier and more thirsty SUV’s and 4×4′s are booming !!

And while you are in thought – have a think why Holden and Ford have loss a multitude of sales over the past few years not to mention job retrenchments, corporate losses and icons such as the Holden 5.0 V8, Ford Fairlane and soon the L6 all but disappearing.

Even better to really stretch your thought process – with the market abandoning the traditional Commodore and Falcon in droves … why has Holden and Ford failed so miserably in retaining those old buyers

How exactly did Holden and Ford get themselves in so much sh*t anyway … !!

You live in past were Holden still does when the Kingswood was the car to have.

Get with it, we live in 2008 not 1968 !!
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

EXACTLY – nothing like a loser … is there Cobra !!
Car-Enthusiast

Damn, CarAdvice, u got a Boxing ring on this article (not that u hvnt on any other articles).

Seriously Guys at CarAdvice, y dnt u consider making chat rooms, Could be like CarAdvice MSN. lol

Now i Read the review. And all i can say, is that the review of every one of these 4 cars was a bit biased. Now im not gona start a boring argument about what car is the best.

But all i can say is get Rid of Jap boxes on wheels, they can’t compete With Holden & Ford, especially when it comes to building Sporty cars and Cars that a Car-Enthusiast will buy.

Aussie Cars for the Win, if u love-em Join em, if u hate them then Bugger off before u get an ass wooping.
AC COBRA

Yeah, you lost again loser, admit this just once for all your Toyo mate’s sake..
Tomas79

SPOT ON, as always GUESS WHO!!
Are AC COBRA and car enthusiast really that dum, or just trolling for an argument??!!
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Car enthusiast – then why did the all-might heavens open up with tears when Nissan squashed the aspirations of local V8 fans.

Holden and Ford had no chance in competing with the GTR so rallied to have it rid-off instead.

Yeah – real brute, aussie stuff that is … NOT !!

IT’S WAS PATHETIC.

Were is Ford positioned in the Australian Rally Championship – let me help you abit, no were near any Toyota,Subaru or Mitsubishi.

What about the Australian Drift Championship … top ten all made up of Nissan (and Toyota) and no Holden or Ford even remotely in sight.

Targa Tasmania, dominated by the European or Japanese manufactuers.

Lets not forget Toyota is making a complete mockery of Chevrolet, Ford and Dodge in NASCAR … how painful that must be especially considering it’s thier own game on thier own soil.

Holden and Ford only ever look good when it’s just them but when competition becomes part of the game … all of a sudden – they just don’t look so good !!

DO THEY …

And you know what – the public knows it.
AC COBRA

Get Rid of Jap boxes on wheels “SPOT ON CAR ENTUSIAST”, Thomas79 the argument is finished little boy, past your bed time anyway, you TP and Dingo (Aka) can go back to Drive.com blogs where you belong, because from what I read there everyone was either ignoring or left the site completely, so I guess hijacking or wrecking a great reviewing site like CA will be on TOYO fluffy fan club “to do list”..

Hard learning the facts and being a toyo knob loser..
Car-Enthusiast

Tomas79, lol if i was trolling for an argument i wouldn’t be here commenting on a article like this, lol if i wanted to start an argument i would be in a boxing ring, fighting. If i wanted to start an argument i wouldn’t be here talking to a womble like yourself, why cause in the world of proper cars, that arn’t old slush mobile Bought by Grandparents(like ur jap craps), only Holden and Aussie Ford, can compete with the germans and produce proper cars for people that care about cars.

So TRD races in more places around the world then any other car manufacturer, well good for them. But do they produce any roadgoing versions of their racing cars, or maybe a road car that a car-enthusiast might buy. Wow the Aurion TRD, 60 to 70 Grand for a Camry, with different headlights and a supercharger. its a load of shit. i mean a 60 to 70 TRD can’t even compete with a $ 45 000 SS or XR8 or xr6T. and wow toyota is in F1, and say that their Aurion is inspired by their F1 car, lol it doesn’t even have the Same Drive type as a F1 Car (RWD) for those who dnt know.

See as for Holden, HSV, Ford, & FPV, the build cars that enthusiast might buy, and at least when they build Road going cars of their racing cars, they have the same basics, like drive type, & engine cylinders. Oh and at least these aussie grown muscle cars look good. compared to those Crap eating boxes with 4 wheels that the japs like to call cars
Car-Enthusiast

lol Guess who AKA. haha

now lets start with the Drift cHampionship, who won last Years championship, ahh thats right Robbie Bolger, with the Monaro.

And please dnt start talking about those datsuns driving around Bathurst. ohhh v6 twin turbo, with 40 million pounds of Turbo laggg.

And as for the European cars, i have nothing against them, i mean if the Euro cars didn’t cost so much they will sell in this country, like Free napkins at a sloppy joe’s cook off. The only reason the Euro’s arn’t selling so much is because they cost DOUBLE here then what they do in Europ.

The cheapest 5 series BMW, cost about $85 000. and with 85 Grand u can get a High performance HSV, or FPV and still have some money left in ur pocket.

AC COBRA lol at the DRIVE.com blogs, are u serious he bored everyone to death that they just left the site LMAO.
Tomas79

Car-Enthusiast, your dribble is so wrong i don’t know even where to start!! And i don’t think I’ll even bother!!
Obviously you need you nightly dose of medication too start making some sense!!

“only Holden and Aussie Ford, can compete with the germans and produce proper cars for people that care about cars.”

How many Holden Commodores and or Ford Falcons can you buy in germany??

Obviously not even in Australia they really care about them anymore, since toyota outsells FORDS and HOLDENS combined…. This is really going around in circles, dam these guys are thick!!
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Wheelnut – still waiting on the Kluger comment from the Top Gear Magazine you have.

It does state that any comment suggesting the dynamics of the Kluger to be inferior or dangerous is downright stupid and ridiculous and completely false.

I believe they actually defend the Kluger suggesting otherwise

Mmmm … why haven’t you bothered to share that with us !!
topdog

All this raveing on and fighting is so funny but at the end of the day the falcon is the new kid on the block and its the best simple as that.And thats not to say the honda or toyota are bad there good to if you prefer them then buy them who cares just buy what you like.AS for the commondore well thats just so far from these cars its just not funny i know i always driving these cars the holden is realy very bad its noisy bad engine the gear box feels like it came out of old vl or something the inside is so far off the mark i can go on and on dont no how holden could have put so many things wrong in new car anyway the toyota is not that bad a car i didnt mined driving it its way up on holden but not up to falcon i have not driven the honda yet but will in soon
AC COBRA

I have noticed the last few months the number of comments have dropped considerably at DRIVE.COM blogs, you can only take so much crap piling up around such ignorant toyo propaganda, eventually going numb by this very notion really signifies the repetitive nature Dingo, TP etc, spill over and over.

I’ve come to another conclusion these are paid imbocilic Toyo marketer’s that keep bashing the ears off vulnerable readers.
Car-Enthusiast

Tomas79 again with the boring old lets bore ppl to death and get them to hate the site nonesense. lol

u see yeah Holden might & ford might not sell in europe. But Opel, Vauhall, jaguar, astom artin, range rover, chevrolet. do, and these cars are part of GM and FORD (well that is before ford sold some)

now as u probably dnt know the european countries have taxes against imported cars (Just like australia does) to prevent their local car industry from going into the ditch, now while toyota builds their cars in different continents around the world (britain for europe, australia for australia & america) etc, to get away from this import tax, and build their mass production vehicles, with their boring cheap money saving, fwd, Cheap plastic interior, and ugly looks.

So if holden and ford were to sell their cars, in europe, a $45 K, ss xr6t, or xr8 will be about $90 K in europe, and u think ppl, will pay that much money for cars like that, that dnt have the luxury features of a GTS,Senator,Grange, GT-P, GT E, or fairlane.

No y cause u would have to be a half with to pay $ 90K for a car thats worth $45K.

And well Holden may not sell in germany, but they do sell in the middle east, an im proud to say that they do a damn good job at it. The statesman and caprice alone in the middle east sell more than the Commodore sells in australia, and the Commodore in the middle east manages to sell between 2000 and 3000 cars per month. and that means it outsells most of its euro competiion in this region.

Oh and lets not forget the Pontiac G8, in its first month of sales in the us it produces about 3300 sales for cars to the equivalent of the SV6 & SS models.

Now lets hope ford will produce a car for the US market, (CGI) were shown on this site, and lets hope they do well
Glen

All I’ve read from TP, Thomas & Guess who (I’m with BM I’m sure its just Dingo) is

WHINGE WHINGE WHINGE WHINGE WHINGE WHINGE WHINGE WHINGE WHINGE.

If Ford & Holden are so bad why are they still the 2nd & 3rd best selling makes in Australia.

Now I’m not saying Toyota make terrible cars because they don’t. They just make boring transportation which just have nothing exciting going for them.

Man I laughed at Guess who’s quote about the Wheels comparo where the Falcon beat the Aurion again. But he convieniatly didn’t mention that.

Ok for the people asking about Xenon lights, whats so good about them. On country roads there is no noticable difference in brightness compared to regular headlights. They just look better. But to replace them if they fail its $$$$$$$$$$. Although I like the idea of LED brakelights its not going to be a deal breaker for me in any car. Its just seems to be money better spent on other areas such as handling and dynamics and fuel economy.
Car-Enthusiast

oh and GUESS WHO AKA, lol u still crying about that crappy ESP on the KLUGER, lol haha toyota tries to add a saftey system to its cars, and instead of preventing the situation from occuring it actually helped the car fliped. lol haha thats so funny, its like going up to the driver of it and asking how did u flip it, well it slid a bit, and then the esp decided its time to flip this car over and take the driver for a ride. lol so funny how the toyota tried to make a cheap safety addition to the car. lol
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Car Enthusiasts – as i said, Holden and Ford only ever look good when it just them but when it’s comes to diverse competition … all of a sudden thay look somehwat -ordinary !!

Toyota has been in NASCAR for not even 2 years and currently lead all three tiers – Sprint Cup, Nationwide and Craftsman Trucks.

Infact, becuase Toyota has been making complete fools out of the locals, NASCAR has instructed them to tone down thier horse power (Nationwide only) because Chevrolet, Ford and Dodge have been whining like mad cows about Toyota’s greater output and not being able to keep pace.

How familar is that (Nissan in Australia) … GM / Holden and Ford are absolute pathetic losers of the very best because everytime they get they ar*es kicked they run bitching and crying to the regulators for help

PATHETIC … !!

Oh yeah, and you know what Toyota has gained from Motor sport – how to make a strong, reliable, dependable and durable engine.

There is much, much more to cars then just handling although most Toyota’s are respectable handlers regardless.

And correct me if i am wrong but motor-racing wether it be F1, Rally, NASCAR, V8 Super Cars, Super GT and so forth is all about expressing engineering excellance and that is something Toyota has been doing a very good job in recent years.

Generally speaking, Toyota motor-sport is going good albeit F1 remains a challenge. They do currently hold 4th position from 10 teams which is not a bad effort.

And lets not forget about the next generation Supra (FT-HS), AE86 and particularly the ‘F’ series coming from Lexus … you would be fool to deny that part development of these cars is not coming from lessons gained in motorsport.

LF-A … definate links to F1

That said, the TRD Aurion and Hilux are infact good products from the small and relatively new TRD group in Australia and no-doubt we will be seeing many good products coming from them in the future not to mention the motorpsort culture they are now re-establishing for Toyota in Australia.

Great to see and i support them whole heartedly.
TP

Ford and Holden are only 2nd and 3rd due to fleet sales. Take that away, they have nothing. And fleet buyers dont place the same emphasis on things like reliability as a private buyer does, as afterall they dont have to keep the car for its entire life!
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Car enthusiast – the rolling of the Kluger was always controversial right from beginning and what’s even better, wheels with all thier experiance failed miserably to recognise the envelope of the Kluger and continued pushing it to failure.

What was never answered by Wheels (and how convenient) and that was Toyota’s question why the explanation given by Wheels differed considerably to the data down loaded from the onboard computer of the vehicle involved.

Poeple lie but evidance of telemetry doesn’t and that exactly were WHEELS came unstuck with thier story.

It became thier word against the telemetry evidance recorded by the computer onboard the Kluger and in court, we all know who would lose !!

What a pathetic attempt from Wheels to discredit the Kluger because it came to market and stole hundreds of sales away from the Territory … boo hoo !!

Toyota had all the telemetry evidance yet all WHEELS had was thier explanation.

Wether it be trians, planes or automobiles – computers (blackboxes and so forth) are critical devices in determining reasons for many accidents and have proven in that human behaviour by far the greatest single cause of crashes then equipment failure or short comings.

Cheers
Car-Enthusiast

Guess who AKA, wow toyota does good in Nascar, dude i hope they win the F1 driver and manufacture campionship for the next 5 years, straight. But that still doesn’t change the fact, that toyota does not make funs, sporty, good handline, powerful good road cars. all it means is that they have good, marketing great motorsport teams and good drivers.

and i hope when u say that toyota learn’t how to build strong reliable, dependable, durable engines u dnt intend to say that Holdens and fords are un reliable.

Because y do u think most the cabs are Fords and Holdens. y do y think most government vehicles are holdens and fords, and Y do y think that most Cars given through Fringe Benefit, a Holden or ford is chosen.

now sure their might not be as much commodore cabs as falcons, but thats holdens fault because they do not introduce, a taxi ready car for the cabbies.

my dad has been a cabbie for about 28 yrs now, and he has always had a commodore cab. Now the most Km we have managed to get out of a car in my family is about, 1.2 million KM. I remeber it was a VL cab did about 850 000 km, and then we kept it for about another 5 years as a family car. and a few yrs ago my dad had a VT wagon, he got about 790 000 km out of the engine before it needed replacing. and currently he has a Vy commodore cab, it has 570 000 km on the clock, original engine and original gearbox.

now alot of my dads friends drive falcon cabs, and most of their cabs have done like 600 and 700 000 kms before engine need replacing. and dnt think cabs arn’t driven much.

a cab rarely gets a rest, on the road about 22 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week. now how many toyotas are on the road for that long.

now so far i have owned 4 cars. 1 of them which was a 1995 corrolla. and i sold it this yr. it had only done about 200 000km. no problem was runing fine, but i just needed to sell it. Now the other 2 cars i have owned, haved had at least over 300 000 km on the clock. i have had my dads ex-taxi which was almost at bout a million km, and is currently for sale. Now my current car is about 4 yrs old and has about 174 000 km on the speedo. all good so far.

My point here is this, yeah toyotas may be reliable, but thats because they arn’t driven as much as other cars. i the corroller i owened was about 13 yrs old, and was only driven 200 000 km. of course its not gona have problems, its rarely driven. i mean most holdens u see for sale easily have over 200 000 km on the clock and arn’t even that old, no wonder y they loose value so much.

For example right i was on the net this week and was searching for 2006 commodores and falcons, and i mean most of the cars i say easily had over 60 000km on the clock, and their were a handful of v8′s that had over 110 000 km on the clock.
TP

FFS mentioing cabs again.

a. Cab combanies get Falcons and Commodores at heavily discounted prices, thus providing a major incentive.

b. Cab engines have easier lives then your avg private vehicle, with long continuous trips with the engine on. As anyone with half a brain is aware most engine wear occurs at start up. So a private car driven 200,000kms with more cold starts then a cab of the same kms will have had a far more difficult environment to operate in. Yet Toyota stand the test of time in these cirumcstances while the locals do not.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

There is no denying that Toyota needs to invest more in the calibration of thier ESP system and no-doubt they have been doing just that.

However, the same article (Kluger) stated that Toyota ABS calibrations were once inferior but now amoung the best that can found anywhere in the world today.

That said, Toyota safety is strong and certainly highly competitive aginst any brand.

Another point that come from the crash and that was the structural integrity of the Kluger and the effectiveness of the pre-tensioners.

ABS, pre-tensioners and structrual integrity … all safety related componenst to ensure greater protection.

All wheels got out of it was embarassment and conflicting explanation against downloaded telemetry evidance.

I’m sure WHEELS will think long and hard before they pull that stunt again.
Car-Enthusiast

actually TP, ur quite wrong, yeah sure sometimes in a cab u can go about1 hour or 1 hour and a half without having to swithch the engine off, but cabs are stoped, started, are in standstill traffic, flowing traffic, and on motorways all day long.

a cab easily gets turned off and back on like over 20 or 30 times a day. think, they stop at taxi ranks, when stoping infront of a customer or jobs house, when dropping off SOMETIMES, and when the driver gets home, or goes home for breakfast, lunch, dinner or visiting someone.

Oh and about cold engine starts, thats y u have to wait a bit for ur car to warm up before driving off. and recently their was this study done by fifth gear, where they parked a car over night, and then in the morning started the engine as cold, and started giving the car a thrashing, doing burnouts and redlining before it warmed up, to see how long the engine will last. and like about 30 or 40 minutes the radiator bursts and the engine was still fine.

and as for the heavy discount i hope u dnt mean much. I MEAN the maximum discount u can get on a cab or fleet car is like $4000, because most cab companies sell brand new $36 000 falcons for about $32 or $33K, and if u go to a dealer like my dad has to u only get about 2 grand at maximum off.
AC COBRA

Here to rub more salt into Toyoda fan wounds and repeating a blog update, rehash the repeat for Dingo as he’s an expert and advocate in this area who can’t stop talking about Toyo.

GEEEE WIZZZ TOYODA LOVE IS GRAND “LIKE NO OTHER IN AUSTRALIA”, EVEN WHEN THEY EASILY LOSE A COMPARISON, SO CALLED TOYO FANS COME OUT OF THE WOOD WORK THINKING THEY STILL HAVE WON A PAGEANT OR CLIMBED MOUNT EVEREST !!!!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SKIES THE LIMIT HERE, AS FOR TOYODA ONLY MAJOR VOLUME FLEET SELLING WILL DO…

A little reminder for those who didn’t read important comparison results (SEE BELOW)

1st > 2008 FG Ford Falcon G6E
2nd > Honda Accord V6 Luxury
3rd > Toyota Aurion Presaga > (should be last in my opinion)
4th > Holden Calais V6

Ford wins end of story, can’t hack it, well I feel sorry for u, stop crying and “GET A LIFE”.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Car Enthusiast – Holden and Ford have supplied amoung the most awful and unreliable cars to have ever graced Australian roads and they still don’t rate highly in Quality / Customer Satisfaction Surveys today.

You can squeeze every bit of mileage out of a typical Toyota donk as any engine from Holden and Ford but will generally be more reliable and less troublesome to maintain while achieveing those mileage.

For many years, Toyota designed and engineered many great sports car but unforunately (admittedly) they stopped for many years to concentrate on the general market which co-incidently has positioned Toyota as the wealthiest, most profitable, stable, robust, recognised and respected automotive manufactuer today.

However, sports and performance cars were lost in the that period, but today – well … Toyota has once again decided to produce sports and performance cars with some examples either already on the market or still under development.

Motorsport … another interest Toyota has re-ignited itself in and growing stronger by the year.

So what’s gonna be your pathetio and p*ss poor excuse when Toyota’s current ambitions come to fruition over the next few years because not only will there be an increase in hotted up Toyota’s from TRD but prestiage machines from Lexus.

Infact, the IS-F is already on the market and will be available in Australia as of October this year while the LF-A continues development.

I believe the next generation Supra (FT-HS) and AE86 will come to frution in the near future aswell.

Toyota is on a path to not only continue to engineer and manufactuer quality, reliable, dependable and durable vehicles for the general market but increase it’s presence in the luxury market with Lexus while re-establishing links with sports / performance cars and motor-sport.

Quite frankly – Toyota is travelling strong towards achieveing those ambitions.
mud80

Why did they not use the caprice?
The calais is not the top luxo car for holden?
Could it be cos ford stoped the fairmont ltd?
Car-Enthusiast

AC COBRAA, lol dude i think u scared Tomas79 away, with all those nightmare reminders about how sad he was on the other sites boring ppl to death with all his comments, lol he hasn’t wrote anything here in a while, lol its a f***n miracle. lol althoughAC COBRAA, lol dude i think u scared Tomas79 away, with all those nightmare reminders about how sad he was on the other sites boring ppl to death with all his comments, lol he hasn\’t wrote anything here in a while, lol its a f***n miracle. lol although i bet ya he will be here tommorrow writing the same old shit and boring some new ppl i bet ya he will be here tommorrow writing the same old shit and boring some new ppl
Car-Enthusiast

lol GUESS WHO AKA, dude i havnt even read ur whole comment first, only like 4 lines, and i just had to write this, dnt start with that survey shit, less than 65 000 ppl even did that gay toyota survey, and i bet half of them were either toyota employees that would of got sacked if they said any other company name, & the other half must of been either ppl buying a toyota or ppl waiting to get their car serviced. & btw 10 000 ppl isnt even a lot compared to the populations of the world, its less than 10% of the worlds population
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Car enthusiast – you stated that Toyota’s are not driven as much as other cars … are you seriuos !!

You have just absolutely gob smacked me with your shear stupid and pathetic comment.

There are by far a much, much greater presance of Toyota’s satisfying working lives in the most remote, harsh, hot, humid and challenging conditions of Australia then any other brand… PERIOD !!

There is nodoubt about it … you live in la, la, land with the fairies.

Farmers, tradies, industries and mines utilise thier vehicles 24/7, day after day, month after month, year after year and Toyota has long been the most preferred choice of any.

Seriously fella, take alook at your pathetic comment and have a think about it.

What about the taxi company in Cairns which operates the Toyota Prius (a tiny 1.5 ltr engine may i add) and has reported literally half the manitenace cost of Prius compared to regular full size cars in the fleet which no-doubt are predominately Falcons and Commodores.

The Prius is traveling in-excess of 200 00km’s a year may i add not to mention the highest utilised Prius has 550 000 km’s on the clock

Check it out for yourself – it was published on this site only a few days ago.

Avalon’s, how many of those are taxi’s now … sh*t loads.

You are a willy – you tuely are !!
AC COBRA

Thanks Car Enthusiast, I think he’s wrapped himself in 1 ply Priass Toyleta paper and the head hit Aurion TuRD brochures for pillow usage “OH WHAT A GOLDEN MOMENT”, can’t be a dedicated Toyo fan without them.

Guess Who Aka Magoo – Toyoda have supplied amoung the most awful and unreliable cars to have ever graced Australian roads and they still don’t rate highly in Quality / Customer Satisfaction Surveys today.

You can squeeze every bit of mileage out of a typical FORD donk, but as any engine from Toyoda will fail big time > everytime.

For many years, Ford designed and engineered many great sports car also Ford is the wealthiest, most profitable, stable, robust, recognised and respected automotive manufactuer today.

Motorsport … Ford has re-ignited itself in and growing stronger by the year.

So what’s gonna be your pathetic and p*ss poor excuse when Ford’s current ambitions come to fruition over the next few years because not only will there be an increase in hotted up Fords from FPV but prestiage machines like Ford G6E.

Ford is on a path to not only continue to engineer and manufactuer quality, reliable, dependable and durable vehicles for the general market but increase it’s presence in the luxury market with G6E while re-establishing links with sports / performance cars and motor-sport.

Quite frankly – Ford is travelling strong towards achieveing those ambitions.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Car enthusiast – what ever mate, go to bed will ‘ya

You just proved how stupid you are with your second to last comment.

And while i’m at it – check out any Quality / Customer Satisfaction Survey wheter it be in Australia, UK or the US and you will learn that Toyota is infact amoung the most consistant and highly rated performers of all.

Seriuosly fella … take some time and actually conduct some fruitful research instead of sprucking utter, shear crap – and that’s all it is … CRAP !!

You haven’t got a friggen clue … not even remotely !!
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

AC Cobra – you forgot to change your name !!

Anyway, bed time for me so i can dream about my widebody Camry.

Tomorrow will be another day were Toyota will still be No.1 while Ford and GM continue to crumble … ooouch !!

OH WHAT A WARM AND FUZZY FEELING
Tomas79

Hey Guess Who, I reckon they are completly drugf*cked at the moment so don’t waste your time on them…

This is the first good news ford had in years, so all the ford fairies Auto-erotic asphyxiating them selfs over the moment…. Lets let them have it, probaly on monday Ford or holden will announce another major loss/ Plant closure/ or model axe….
Car-Enthusiast

here we go again, GUESS WHO AKA, dude wow toyota is the wealthiest, most profitable, stable, robust, recognised and respected automotive manufactuer today.

well good for fukn them, but while they are the wealthiest most profitable, manufacturer, its also the most boring, and while holden ford, BMW, Merc, lamborghini and a handful of other manufacturers, think about how they can make their next car faster, better handling, better looking, and more fun to drive, all toyota thinks about is how to make more profits, and how to make more boring, ugly car to be built as mass production.

Example, the current Gen corrolla, is just the previous gen corrolla, plus the Yaris in its looks, and shapes, and not to mention when they decided to make a new car all they do is make it less powerful and slower than the previous version.

Eg 2004-2005 corrolla sportivo, 141kw, 0-100km 8.5 sec. current gen Corrolla levine ZR (sportiest corrolla) has 100 kw, 0-100km 9.7 sec. like wtf, wats the point of buying/making a new car if its worse than the old one in almost every aspect other than fuel consumption.

and not to mention right but that both the old V6 camry sportivo and Current camry sportivo get beaten by the old corrolla and new corroler. so stupid who builds a 1.5 tone mid sized 4 door car and puts 110kw, i mean these cars probably struggle to get up a 10 degree hill.

and even worse, toyota australia decided to completely get rid of the RWD platform it had on previous gen camry and avalon. and yet these are meant to be good cars.

& then their is the Rav V6, all they did was grab a Rav4, and get the engine from the aurion and said lets put these 2 together and hope it works out

All of these things that Toyota does are only done, to make more profit, less cost, and more boring old slush mobiles for Great grand parents to drive around.

& dnt get me started on TRD, i already mention the Aurion, or well its actually a camry, but we will let them call it aurion since they changed the engine and lights. u can’t even turn the TC controll off on it, and the Hilux is completely dangerous cause its got no driving assists other than abs, supercharged, no weight to hold the back on to the road, and is completely shocking at handling and going off road.

Now dnt give me this nonesence about holden and ford Wen toyota has half a million problem.

& not to mention lets not forget if it wasn’t for the brits japan wouldn’t have a car industry, after all they did learn how to make cars from the guy who made Austin
Car-Enthusiast

Guess who aka, lol i hvnt got to ur other 2 comments yet, but ill get to them in a sec. so it took toyota till the yr 2008 to produce a reliable car, dude My dad has been getting over 700 000km, out of a Car all the way since the VL days, probably about half a decade before u were born. and as i said that car went on to 1.2 million KM then was sold, we had it since it first came out, till 1999. 11 yrs 6 of them which it was on cab (maximum taxi limit then) (now maximum normal taxi limit is 6.5 yrs), and 5 of which it was as a family car, basically also being driven all day.

and his current car has 570 000 km on it with still original gearbox and engine. now the only reason u mentioned that prius, is because that is the first toyota prius to be flawless with its battery life and other issues, dude i have been in a prius.

btw my college teacher has one and he is stocked he said its bloody fast, it takes half a century to reach 100 km.
Car-Enthusiast

oh and another thing, since its past GUEss who aka, and Tomas79 bedtime, and their mommy is wiping them with a leash telling them to go to bed, i might mention this.

A toyota pius plus the building of it produces more carbon emisions in the long term then a RANGE ROVER V8 does in the short term.

And another thing for all those environmentalist freaks, if u wana save the universe y buy a Hybrid, or more the less a prius.

Studies on TV shows, car magazines and even this site have shown that A Diesel car, runs more KM on a tank, produces less C02 while being driven, and is more economical than a Hybrid car.

oh and about the avalon taxi’s, if u mean by shit loads as in 100 then damn thats alot in ur world. and not to mention truse me u won’t see them on the road much longer, as their taxi use by date is gona be over soon.

altough their is one are in the transport industry that will always be Toyota free, and thats the Luxury cabs, and hire cars. although i must say im pretty amazed at how many of them statesmans, caprices and fairlanes are V8′s, tones of them. and im suprised y would u drive a v8 if u r going to use it for transport purposes, but then i remembered. Holden and ford fans arn’t cheap and tight little ass wipes that cry every time they fill their fuel tank.

and u know whats suprising i see most ppl with toyotas complain about how expensive fuel is and still drive, like wat the less. its like buying a drink, drinking it and then saying shit that was expensive. so they fill their car up drive home and complain about how much it cost to fill it up, what hipocrits, dnt fill up them.

lol laters im gona go watch the latest HAROLD & KUMAR film, and i probably won’t be on this site tommorrow cause unlike some ppl that eat drink and sleep on this site i have a LIFE.

later AC COBRA tc dude
Des

FG Falcon FTW!

G6E luxury falcon outdoes the horrible grandpa cheap woodgrain flat ill contrasting interior of the Aurion Presara!

That Presara interior is positively barfworthy!!!
T

So…. as usual the new falcon range is the benchmark…. BUT fords advertising idiots fall flat YET again!

does anyone whos NOT a car buff, actually know there is an all new falcon out??? barely!!

how about an add on tv saying, “this magazine said THIS” about the new falcon??? or TEST DRIVE OUR CAR, BUT DRIVE THE OTHERS FIRST, WE DARE YOU!!!

piss poor effort ford australia, you done the same when the BA came out. take a leaf from holdens marketing geniusses!

one more thing, commodore will CONTINUE to outsell falcon, its just australias holden mentality.
T

oh and toyota are selling bogloads of their whitegoods, BECAUSE the majority of people buying new cars seem to be grey headed retiree’s!!

CAMRY / AURION / AVALON drivers all seem to be EX volvo drivers. everytime there is a line up of traffic held up by one car, ITS A CAMRY.

if i have the choice of pulling up behind someone on foot, or a camry at the lights, i guarantee the pedestrian will take off faster!!

AVOID THEM whilst driving!!!!!!!!

CAMRY FTMFL !

** take note next time and see if im right!! **
http://www.geardiary.com Mitchell Oke

I got to drive one of the new G6′s when my mum was test driving a few cars that were being offered to her as her new company car, and it really is very very nice. I’m not at all surprised to see if come out on top. Haven’t driven the other three cars, but I can say the Falcon was great.

Is it just me or do the seats in the Commodore look like they have cheap seat covers on them? They just look crap!!
Wheelnut

You may think that Wheels embarrassed themselves with the Kluger Roll Over.. However; it is still regarded by many to be a far more respectable magazine than Australian New Car Buyer magazine – which one of your fellow Toyo-philes; “Oh What A Feeling” made the initial reference to inorder to TRY and support of one of his poorly based arguements on another blog a couple of months ago..

The fact that it sells more magazines than New Car Buyer is testament to that. Not to mention the fact that the Wheels Car Of The Year Award is a lot more prestigious award than whatever award New Car Buyer has
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Car enthusiasts – your above comments are just downright stupid … nodoubt about it, !! How else do you explain such poor, uneducated replys.

I’m not sure what you are even trying to critise but then again, you probably don’t either.

As for shoe-horning the 2GR-FE (3.5 V6) into the RAV4 … what exactly are you trying to say becuase it’s over my head.

The 2GR-FE just happens to be the most commonly used engine in the Toyota stable today. In standard guise, it currently powers the Avalon (USA), Aurion / V6 Camry (USA ), Kluger / Hylander (USA), RAV4 V6, Tarago and the Corolla Master G.

Direct Injection derivative of the same engine produces greater output and improved fuel efficiency and powers the Lexus IS350, ES350, GS350, RX350 and RX400hl.

TRD Australia has not missed it either with thier locally developed supercharged version as found in the TRD Aurion and Bolwell Nagari (do you know who they ??) while it is raced by Peter Kittle in the Australian Off-Road Championship not to mention the modified Road Racing TRD Aurions.

Infact, it has been lessons learn’t by Peter Kittle that has lead to possible development of a Drag Racing version of the 2GR-FE to eventually replace the 1300KW (1800HP) 3.2 L6 Supra powered Drag Racing Aurion of Tony Wedlock.

And lets not forget Lotus now utilises a modified version of the 2GR-FE in it’s latest release.

As for your comment about the RAV4 V6 ‘hoping for the best’ … incase you haven’t noticed (no-doubt you haven’t) but the RAV V6 is selling strong in the US an so badly here in Oz either.

Fact is clown, Toyota vehicles are amoung the most competitive, highest quality and most reliable / dependable / durable vehicles on the global market today and no amount of stupid rot from you changes those very simple facts … not even remotely.

As for Holden, Ford etc developing new faster cars – i guess that’s why Holden flooded the Australian market with 10 year old rebadged Daewoo’s … mmm !!

Oh yeah – as for hybrid technology … General Motors, Ford, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes Benz and Audi to name a few have all decided to develope hybrid motor-vehicles.

And through it’s Hino range, Toyota is infact the first manufactuer to develope and sell hybrids diesels.

Anyway, i’m outta here today to enjoy a drive in the countryside with the family so i’ll leave you clowns whinging and swining amoung ‘yaselves about Toyota’s growing success while GM and Ford continue crumbling to thier knees
TP

1. Cabs have easier lifes, Im not sure what cabs youve been in but whenever Ive got one they havent turned their vehicle off when waiting. And even when they do turn it off for a break, the oil is still relatively warm on start up… with warm oil you have quicker lubrication. Dead cold starts are the problem, with thicker oil taking longer to reach all the components.
2. Your fifth gear test is ridiculous, please use some common sense, youd have to be missing a few screws to think redlining is good for the car on start up. And a test like that is just ridiculous like all fifth gear tests, I hate that show, worse then Top Gear. The wear we are talking about isnt going to stuff a car up straight away, but the car isnt going to last 150,000kms trouble free, the issue is long term… redline it on cold start a couple of times and with no oil running through parts of that engine the acclerated wear turns a car that should last 300,000kms into trash at far less.
3. Kluger test, yaaaaaaawn. I asked some non car friends this question:
If you had a large SUV, drove in on a very loose surface offroad, at 100km/h and then took a relatively sharp turn… what do you think would happen? It doesnt take Einstein to realise what they said. Common sense, ESP had nothing do to with helping that situation, the front tyres dig into the loose surface and flip the vehicle. I recall a Crash Investigation program had a feature on a similar incident where a person was travelling at 100km/h on a beach, went for a turn, and flipped. Doesnt take much imagination to come to this conclusion. What it doest take is common sense to realise the Kluger isnt a rally car by no means… you dont travel 100km/h on such a loose surface let alone take corners… plain stupid.
Andrew M

ah, i got sick of reading the posts once the bitter tears started.

how come the commodore was hit heavy for only having a 4 star rating when the others in its class carry the same rating?
also i find it hard to believe the handling characteristics of the clais were as bad as reported.
i would have put the VE right behind the falcon, but only due to the falcons much much better front end.

those points on the commodore seemed a little unfair, but i agree with the critisism on interior quality etc.

TP,
why were the electronic nannies turned off to achieve the 0-100 time for the aurion, yet none of the others had theirs turned off?
no apology needed as what i have said in the past stands. Toyotas official time for the aurion sprint is low 7′s.
whether you like it or not that is what i have said in the past.
by the time you turn the nannies off in the aurion, you would have sat through 2 sets of lights, so why bother.

in theory the aurion should blitz the field by a convincing margin.
it has a power advantage,
it has a massive weight advantage,
and dont you reckon its FWD power loss theory should see 20% more getting to the ground?

once again,
why were the nannies turned off on only the aurion and not on the others?
it was obviously part of the press pack to do so.
Andrew M

right on TP,
taxis have a better life.
you only need to look as far as those prius’s up north to see evidence of that

the botom line with the whole kluger roll over thing is, its competitors were put through the exact same thing, and they did not suffer the same fault.
ever heard of travelling on a dirt road at 100kmh and having a kangaroo jumping out in front of you?
do you even know what a kangaroo is having been bolted to city life??
Wheelnut

TP: Ford and Holden are only 2nd and 3rd due to fleet sales. Take that away, they have nothing.

Same coould be said for Toyota too TP in regards to the Corolla. Given that they are the preferred choice of rental car compnaies.. Infact when I was in Perth earlier this year I saw a automotive storage facility full of Corollas all with rental car company stickers on them and all of them were refrigerator white [surprise sirprise]

As for Toyotas being the preferred choice of Tradies – Last week I walked past a Construction site here in Adelaide where they are building what is supposed to be The 2nd Biggest Westfield Shoppingtown in Australia and on the site – I saw a number of Holden and Falcon utes even a couple of VW Transporters but there wasn’t one Hilux.
I saw the same thing just yesterday when I drove past a new housing development near my place mostly Fords and Holdens with just a couple of Hiace vans

And in relation to Hiace vans They will never be able to overtake the worlds most popuar commercial vehicle – The Ford Transit at the Transit is available in so many configurations as well as Colours
TP

1. I would doubt the nannies were turned off… if they were then they would have been turned off for all vehicles for consistency…eitherway it doesnt matter, the Aurion is quicker. As for margine, I think you need to realise 1/4 of a second doesnt sound much but at 100kmh thats quite the margin… a car travels 100m in 4 seconds at 100km/h… so 25m in 1 second…. a 1/4 of that you have a 6m gap. So in excess of a car length. Quite large given its only 5kw difference and less torque.
2. Yes the Prius internal combustion engines have a better life… but the electrics it has no effect, last I checked they dont need oil although there are other factors but it gets to complication.
3. If your travelling 100km/h on a dirt road your an idiot. I dont care if people do it and get away with it thinking its ok… its dangerous. As I said and it seems to have gone over your head the issue here is the front tyre digging into the loose surface and rolling the vehicle. ESP does not help in this situation. The other cars in the test were lucky, clearly driver error has meant a sudden change of direction and a tyre dug in. Im sure it will happen again if they continue it, simply a probability game. But I bet they scrap that test.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Wheelnut – Wheels hasn’t been a respected publication for many years and arguably one of the most critised of all.

Australian New Car Buyer only prints a couple of editions each year and not monthly.

Go and buy an edition and then take the time, sit down, relax with a coldie in the hand and read it – it is a damn lot more professional in approach then WHEELS.

And yes, WHEELS did shame themselves when thier version of the incident differed considerbly to the telemetry evidance downloaded from the vehicle involved … mmm !!

People lie or get confused – telemetry evidance doesn’t.

Like i said – wether it be trains, planes, automobiles or spacecraft – these handy inventions have proven human error is by far the greatest single cause of accidents then equipment malfunction or design faults.

Oh yeah – don’t forget to quote what Top Gear that talks about the handling of the Kluger and the harsh critism they aim at others for suggesting the handling oF the Kluger is inferior or dangerous.

What are thier words … ” down right stupid, ridiculous and completely false ” – something to that effect anyway.

Haa … you would have read that already but not willing to share it with the rest of us.

HOW CONVENIENT !!

Cheers

ps. off to enjoy a drive with the family now !!
TP

60% Corolla to fleets (Im told its even less now given more private buyers opting for them)…80% Commmodore and Falcon to fleets. 20% difference doesnt sound huge but muliply that by the thousands of cars sold and you have you reason. Its why when fleets are taken out Corolla remains a the top while the Commodore and Falcon (although I think Falcon isnt even 3rd with fleets) are not even in the top 10!
Wheelnut

Thats it Andrew – There are occassions when driving on country roads you will have to swerve to avoid a Kangaroo or even a Wombat [hit one of them and your car will most definitely roll]

Yet the same could happen in metropolitan areas if you are driving along a highway at and some idiot decides to change lanes all of a sudden or a kid comes out from behind a parked car etc
Most people will take some form of evasive action and the safest way to do so and maintain relative control [particularly when travelling at speed[ is to swerve around it

Yet you’ve got to remember that the Toyo-tossers on this site put alot of weight behind the ANCrAP tests where they drive cars into walls poles and under trucks because the dummy behind the wheel doesn’t take any evasive action at all like most people would.. which is why the ANCrAP tests are more unrealistic than the test Wheels did with the Kluger.
Andrew M

TP,
batteries arent a different kettle of fish.

a battery that constantly has fresh charge running through it, will last longer.

how many grannys that have sunday drivers constantly get flat batteries? a lot more than those that turn the car over every day.
a battery should be cranked every couple of days to ensure a better life for it

if a battery sits, it loses charge and life.

it is even the same with cordless power tools.
if they are cycling properly as opposed to sitting for months at a time, they will hold full charge for a lot longer life
Wheelnut

Only pople that are interested in buying a Baby Prado – AKA Kluger would be interested in what is written about the Kluger..
I for one am not interested in a Kluger for my next car I am getting at a Ute – and before you go off at me I did think about and actually look at a Hilux.. but it doesn’t suit my needs [for my business]

Yet the fact is the what wheels did is a more realistic test than what ANCrAP do

Because as I have said previously its more likely that when driving on a dirt road in the country or wherever a Kangaroo or something will jump out infront of you and you will instinctively try to take some form of evasive action

Whereas ANCrAP would like to think that everyone would be happy to drive straight into a wall or the back of the truck

Or is it that in relation to the Kluger-Roll you can’t accept the fact that the Kluger failed where its rivals managed to stay upright.. In the same way in relation to this article it appears that you cant accept it that the Aurion got beaten by a Ford – [Honda would have been okay but a Ford?]
Andrew M

Dingo,
you are right,
wheels hasnt been respected for years, that is of course unless you want to quote from them. pffft

TP,
you only need to read the article to see where it states the nannies were turned off on the aurion.
with some vehicles, nannies cant be turned off. some vehicles dont even let you turn off traction control

nothing wrong with doing 80-100 on a dirt road when the spped limit is actually that. nothing worse than being stuck behind someone on a dirt road doing 40kmh

you are just a city bred soft c*ck by the sounds of it.

once again. have you even seen a kangaroo on a road be it tarmac or dirt??
its heart in mouth stuff when you come around a bend to see a big roo in the middle of the road

i also thought if you took fleet sales off every one a certain mazda model rose to the top?????
Andrew M

wheelnut,
i must have missed the bit where dingo had his tradies only drive the trusted toyotas spray did I?

i visit building sites every single day and can back up what your observations are.
fords/falcons dominate building sites.
toyotas are actually quite rare around building sites.
sure the sell hiluxs, but they dont go to the tradies. they go to the massive road/bridge constructing companies or in other words where massive fleet numbers are required.
(add mining companies to that too)

you dont see too many sole trading subcontractors or small time building companies with toyotas. they are the people that will buy a vehicle on their merits.
more brickies, concretors use falcons than any other vehicle, and they are the trades that really give their vehicles hell.

the hilux is a gutless pig to drive, end of story.
to be fair i shouldnt single out the hilux with that tag as all the japper models are the same)
you will see more rodeos around sites than hiluxs though, but thats because there isnt a premium price tag surrounding the rodeo plate for eg
Wheelnut

Doesn’t really matter if the Wheels test in which the Kluger Rolled was done at 100; 120; 80 Km;/h…

The thing is people do drive at high speeds on dirt roasds in the country because of the pen spaces and as there are fewer people around so their is more enticement to floor it as there is relativley less danger.

Then being on a dirt road there is obviously less grip than there would be if the kluger was in its natural environment being the sealed roads in metropolitan Sydney
as the road is less stable

So regardless if they swerved or hit the brakes there is always the possibility that the car will slide hit a bump or something and roll..

The Kluger rolled the others didnt so Deal With It.
TP

1. As I said, accept the Aurion is quicker. You were wrong.
2. That issue re batteries is relevant if the private driver doesn use the car for weeks, most people will drive a coupla times a week giving the battery the charge it needs.
3. I repeat, youd have to be a few screws short to go 100kmh especially if you think a Kangeroo could come out. Nothing to do with being soft, its called common bloody sense, you sound like the typical idiot who thinks they are invincible and then wraps his car around a tree and has to have his body scraped off it. By all means go that fast, but when you roll in your territory which is going to have the exact same issue as the kluger (again i repeat, this is about tyres digging in…not esp!) but instead die unlike the wheels driver (as fords in the states were known for their roofs quite easily caving in… i doubt cheapo teritory is any different) I will just say… I told you do!
Wheelnut

That’s it – Ask Richohow he felt after hitting the Kangaroo at bathurst a Couple of Years Ago.. Not to mention look at the damage it did.

A mate of mine lives in the Adelaide Hills and one evening he was driving along a country road when he saw a Kangaroo – he tried to take evasive action but it was too late….
The kangaroo jumped on to his bonnet through the front windscreen the cabin and out the rear windscreen. It did so much damage the bonnet; front guards; roof; seats and bootlid had to be replaced.
AC COBRA

Actually TP the real figures are 80% Corolla, but Toyoda in general are major fleet seller’s(Im told its even more now given less private buyers opting for them)…50% Falcon, Commondore are fleets. 30% is a huge difference. It’s why when fleets are taken out Ford and Holden remains at the top while the Toyota keep pumping out one whitegood fridge after another.
Andrew M

TP,
whats toyotas official time for the aurion?
what i have previously quoted wasnt wrong.
a while back i asked to supply evidence of it being sub 7sec. to date you did not do such a thing

RE batteries,
have you even wandered why the batteries in your vibrator seem to last forever? well thats because you are constantly cycling the batteries through their full cycle before recharging them again, and they never get left sit with a half charge in them. when you are constantly sitting on it all day every day and immediately recharging it so you dont miss out on any action, then the cells will last longer.
dont believe me? then do a 20 second google search in the same way you learn everything else you claim to be an expert on

still havent seen a kangaroo yet have you?

“My ford territory” wont roll because it was proven under the same conditions that it didnt suffer the same fate. SIMPLE!!!

queue the music…….
“Wash away those bitter tears”
Andrew M

when i travel out to willobank (ie last weekend), i travel the back way in to avoid the traffic.
there is a 5K long dirt road to get to the facility.
if you are going to plod along a dirt road at 20kmh with your chest towards the steering wheel, you wont be home in time for dinner and then your mum will get mad at you.

now you dont want that do you???
thats got to be worse than an angry kangaroo.

if you travel dirt roads you will discover that they are not in the poor conditions as what you will see on the Rally stages.
the decent ones are actually quite smooth and lacking loose gravel.
they are no more dangerous than dirt on a tarmac road, or the loose stone on the edges or a tarmac road
Pat E

Guys, between this time yesterday and now, the number of comments on this article have more than doubled!

Take a step back from your computer, go outside, and drive your bloody cars!

I thought being a car enthusiast was about enjoy the vehicle you have, not being a bloody keyboard warrior!
Bavarian Missile

I agree with Andrew if the dirt road permits up to 100ks then why shouldn’t you! Especially if your in a 4×4 ,the time of the day also dictates when the wildlife is more prevalent so common sense will tell you to slow down in the dark!

Ive lived in the Goldfields for 5 years so I know all about Roos and Emus.
Andrew M

thats right BM,
around sun down and early morning is when roos come out and play

they wont set a speed limit at 80 or 100 on a dirt road unless it is safe.

some people just think dirt roads are like sand pits
Golfschwein

Oh yes! The Kluger couldn’t stand the test that every other COTY contestant has been put through for a decade. If I rolled one of these things or indeed any other car, you can be quite sure it’s not because I was trying to conform to ISO Standards.
TP

AC Cobra please source those figures. YOU ARE FULL OF IT.

There is no argument, 100kmh on a loose surface is crazy. You also need to differentiate between a dirt road (not tarmac but well compacted) and a loose surface. Wheels test was a loose sufrace where the tyre can easily dig in and roll a vehicle. Kluger sales steailty increasing are evidence of consumers using common sense are realising such as a test was ridiculous.
sanjay

im sure its been said already in 353 comments but the aurion is every bit as australian as the falcon or commodore, even if its too embarassing to admit.

why havent you changed it, caradvice? (on the first page, saying the aurion and accord are japanese). its like saying the magna/380 was a japanese car when the only japanese thing about it was the brand name.
Golfschwein

How come every other car has been driven on the same course in the same manner for year after year and not fallen over TP?

The Kluger FAILED! But that little fact is as unpalatable as this test result, isn’t it?

Back on topic, nice to see a win for the Falcon.
Andrew M

sanjay,
the falcon and commodore are designed for australia.
that my friend is where the main difference lies.

the aurion is totally japanese apart from the localised cladding they put on it
Andrew M

TP,
right on again,
there is no argument to suggest that 80-100kmh on a dirt road is crazy.

HSV’s arent designed to be operating at performance car speeds around race tracks non stop, but you still love to throw in the little bit of brake fade that was displayed when they did so.

sound the siren Golfie!!!!!
we have another hypocrite on the loose!!!!!
TP

Falcon and Commodore desinged for Australia lol. The only difference is one vehicle is of worldwide quality while the others are not!

Hypocrite? Not sure what your smoking, a HSV is designed for performance applications… you dont need 6 pot calipers on the road. As I said, the Kluger test was on a loose surface at 100kmh around a bend….. pull your head in, if you think driving an SUV at rally speeds is a smart thing then you need to get your head examined.
Wheelnut

Falcon and Commodore are obviously designed for Australia TP – why else do you see so many 15-20+ year old Holdens and Fords Still going around today yet very few Locally Built Toyotas of the same age.. [not only restored models [street machines but even factory standard examples.]

As you have said the test of time is the best way to see how reliable a car really is

And don’t use the the sold more argurement; given that all 3 manufacturers have been in Oz for 50 years Toyota has had equal opportunity to sell as many cars as Ford andHolden..
Not only that but if Toyotas are supposedly as reliable and long lasting etc as you [and your crew of 4] would like us to believe then on that alone Toyota should have been able to sell even more cars over the same period…if they are that much better than Holden and Ford.
Wheelnut

The Aurion is essentially an US based Camry with a facelift [which admittedly looks better than the actual Camry].. but its sourced from the USA with slight modifications to the Suspension – in the same way the 380 is a US Galant. Whereas the Falcon and Commodore are designed and built here – Particularly the VE

Both Toyota and Mitsubishi had the opportunity to build a completely new car desifned in and for Australia – mainly Toyota given they are the richest car company in the world.

Former Mitsubishi [and Toyota] CEO Tom Phillips was keen to build an all new Ozi Sedan but Tokyo said No they had to deal with modifying a car sourced from overseas..In the same way Holden had to back in the 80s with the Opel Rekord.

The difference being that Holden engineers and designers believed it was time for an all new ozi sedan and they were confident enough to put forward a business case for the project to Detroit even though GM were in financial problems and wanted them to take the Pontiac Sigma.

GM gave Holden the green light and the VE was born which as many motoring experts have said handles and performs better than any previous model commodore -which remember was sourced from overseas.. as a result it has won several awards both here and overseas

Thereby proving that not only does Holden hold a higher position in GM world than Toyota but that a 100% ozi built car is far more suitable for Australias unique environment and conditions than any imported sedan could ever be.
Wheelnut

Just as a matter of interest – which topic on this site has the most number of comments… I think this one is well on the way to matching it.

Even though like most topics on this site the majority of comments on this topic are actually off topic – usually after the first 10 or so comments or after Dingo [and his various personalities] makes an appearance.
TP

What are you trying to prove Wheelnut… how bad our car industry is? A ‘Camry with a facelift’ has won Drives Large Car of the Year award for the last two years. This is prity sad when you think about it. It shows that our industry cannot compete.
AC COBRA

Here to rub more salt into Toyoda fan wounds and repeating a blog update, rehash the repeat for Dingo (Aka), TP, Thomas79 brigade as they are expert and advocate’s in this area who can’t stop talking about Toyo.

GEEEE WIZZZ TOYODA LOVE IS GRAND “LIKE NO OTHER IN AUSTRALIA”, EVEN WHEN THEY EASILY LOSE A COMPARISON, SO CALLED TOYO FANS COME OUT OF THE WOOD WORK THINKING THEY STILL HAVE WON A PAGEANT OR CLIMBED MOUNT EVEREST !!!!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SKIES THE LIMIT HERE, TOYODA MAIN AIM IS HIGH VOLUME FLEET AND DON’T CARE WHAT THE CAR LOOK’S LIKE BECAUSE WHO CARE’S ABOUT WHITEGOOD’S…

A little reminder for those who didn’t read important comparison results (SEE BELOW)

1st > 2008 FG Ford Falcon G6E
2nd > Honda Accord V6 Luxury
3rd > Toyota Aurion Presaga > (should be last in my opinion)
4th > Holden Calais V6

Quality Ford wins end of story, can’t hack it, well I feel sorry for u, stop crying and “GET A LIFE”.

Toyoyota is less reliable as the years go by, meantime Ford surpasses them in every department which include > performance > economy > dynamics > reliability > style > resale > handling > space > safety > better technology > interior is not covered in cardigan material, the list goes on, just read the above comparison TP or can’t you read the praise better car’s receive..

Keep spilling more repetitive, spare the shame, spare the shame TP.

Ford and Commodore have designed cars in Australia much longer than Japan made Toyoyo, quality is as good and will be for many years to come…
Wheelnut

One factor that could have had an influence on the Kluger Roll [sounds like a German sandwich you get in Hahndorf] that not many people have considered is physics.

Mainly – A body in motion will continue to travel in the direction and at the speed of which it is travelling until or unless another force is enacted upion it.

I mean look at the Klugers stance its track and more importantly how high it is.

Whether or not it was on Compacted Dirt Loose Gravel or even Tarmac. if a car with the dimensions similar to the Kluger took a 90 degree corner at 80-120km/h its got a very high possibility of rolling – the approach angle to the entry of the corner and how close you go to the apex can also have an influence.

Because the wind-rush or wake that is created behind the car at that speed can potentially have enough force to actually help the car flip if or when it changes direction [even slightly] – its called terminal velocity.

So that the level of friction and traction could have been the reason the Kluger Rolled – yet if thats the case why didint the Territory and the other cars..? possibly because they’re wider and lower which helps improve their stability
Wheelnut

Not at all TP – infact given the relatively small size of our market and availability of resources etc The local car manufacturers build quality reliable cars.

I’m just saying that a car which is designed built and tested in Australia is better equipped to deal with Australias uniquely harsh environment and variable climates / weather conditions than a Facelifted or Modified import such as the 380 or Aurion could be.. Which is why there are so many more Fords and Holdens over 10..20 even 30 year old locally built Fords and Holdens around than their imported rivals

If The Aurion [and 380] was completely Australian designed built etc not a Facelifted US model than maybe things would be different
A joke

Honestly, you are all fkin nuts. Kluger rolled, falcon is better than the toyo, no probs, the VE is the worst of the lot, nps, wheels should be called the holden lifestyle magaine, no probs, toyota is the biggest car seller in the world and oz, no probs, they sell a lot of white goods, no probs, how that, we all even now?
A joke

Just as an aside wheelnut, how about he was doing 120kms and not 100kms at that corner. Top gear magazine laughed at the Kluger roll over and pretty much made fun of wheels mag. I dont blame them, wheel was bort out years ago.
TP

Wheelnut you have prity much admitted our industry is crap. A face lift Camry has beaten the locals. A foreigner has designed a car that matches our conditions better then the locals who live here. Thanks.
Wheelnut

Top gear is a magazine that focuses predominantly on Performance cars.. and there’s no way you can call the Kluger [let alone the TRD Aurion] a Performance Car

I mean as JC says they often get asked why don’t you ever test more affordable practical family cars..

Whereas Wheels focuses on more affordable practical family cars. If the Kluger is meant to be a vehicle with off road capabilities then wheels are within their rights to test the Kluger and carry out the test they did.

There are times when you will be driving along a road [dirt or sealed] at speed; looking for a turn-off when all of a sudden you reach it and [attempt to] turn in often taking a wider entry than normal. Its at that moment that Physics would have a major impact as to the cars ability to make the turn dependig upon the cars height width length as well as speed. The same could would happen with a handbrake turn or skid

Try turning off a sealed road into a gravel driveway at about 40-60Km/h and see what happens the car will slide before it gains traction.. the same way the Kluger did unfortuantely unlike its cometitors the Kluger was unable to gain traction as it became unstable mainly due to iths Height
http://aca Who Guess aka … !!

Well, well, well … have a look at all the whinging, swining, crying, dribbling Holden and Ford freaks !!

Boo hoo clowns – while Toyota is going from strength to strength, General Motors and Ford Motor Co are collapsing … PERIOD !!

No amount of swining from you girls change those very simple facts, not even a fraction.

In recent times alone, GM has been reported as being on the vurge on filing for Bankruptcy Protection while Ford is not far behind. Infact, Ford just reported it’s biggest ever quarterly loss in the history of the company.

Bitch as much you freaks want but fact remains – Toyota is amoung the highest regarded and most respected automotive brands of all, has boomed in recent years on the back of it’s solid / diverse fleet and strong reputation which remains no different today guided by a competant corporation which is much, more i say about Holden and Ford … MUCH MORE !!

Toyota is not the company on the verge of complete collapse – General Motors and Ford is … PERIOD !!

You clowns live in la, la, land were the fairies are nice but in the BIG BAD WORLD were reality is wrenching at your hearts – General Motors / Holden and Ford are in the sh*t … BIGTIME !!
Wheelnut

Sure the Aurion is outselling the Locals ATM but how long will they last?

As for matching our conditions… The Auron is more suited to Peoples needs [ATM] and as most people these days are only worried about the here and now with out any thought to the future.
So when their Aurion starts to fall apart after 5-10years when its out of warranty and the cost of repairs skyrockets and replacement parts are hard to come by that is when you will see how good a car is how well its suited to our conditions etc

If you can’t afford to run it maintain it and look after it you shouldn’t buy it.

And that is my point – Toyotas may be reliable over the short term but you don’t see as many 10-20 year old locally built Toyotas around in original condition as you do locally Built Fords and Holdens

That is a sign of true quality and reliability How long the car lasts over time
realcars

Dingo, TP and Tomas69 are knobs.
realcars

Drive is an infomercial for Toyota.LOL
Wheelnut

BTW: I actually commend Toyota on the Aurion for what it is – a Large FWD Family Sized Car it pulls its weight around relatively well and has an impressive list of features etc.

Yet as its a FWD car not a RWD car like the Falcon and Commodore you can’t really compare them against eachother as the different platform configurations [FWD v RWD] influences teh way the car will perform/handle..as it would if the car was AWD.

In some instances FWD can be an advantage yet in most instances its RWD or AWD is better as drive steering and most of the braking isnt taking place at one end – I mean how many FWD Performance cars are there?

Its like comparing aples with oranges or a Yaris with an Audi R8 or Konigsiegg
Wheelnut

Sure they’re all 6 cylinder cars but you don’t see them comparing a FWD Mini with an AWD Impreza [for example]…. yet they are both 4 cylinder cars with similar sized engines.
realcars

Fair dinkum these Toyotaphiles are like extreme bible bashers!!!!

Falcon superior on all counts. Just accept it and move on.
Amazing Toyota has the audacity to charge similar price for a vehicle that is much cheaper to produce given it’s FWD platform.

U have to spend big bucks for a Lexus to get Falcon RWD and balance and then makes the Lexus look very weak indeed.

There are alot more older Fords and Holdens on our roads than old jappers including Toyota.

Toyota have long been known as a reliable short term vehicle. Are engineered to just do the job whereas our locals tend to be over engineered and hence their longer life. Shows in the Aurions 200kg weight deficit. Brakes that are just big enough,bearings just up to the task etc etc etc. This is typical of japanese cars in general and thats why they don’t last long term like a Falcon or Commodore.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Wheelnut – you are a true clown, any circus will have you.

Your comment stating that there are more Holdens and Ford’s on biulding sites is just shear utter non-sense, you really do live in la, la, land with the fairies.

Toyota commercials have long been (and even more so today) the most common choice amoung Tradies, Farmers, Industries and Mines in this rugged nation of ours and any comment otherwise is just a shear joke.

Infact, you are a joke … !!

As for Falcon’s and Commodore’s are more suited for this country – what shear crap.

As i have stated so many times before, The Falcon and Commodore have long been amoung the poorest quality and most unreliable vehicles to have ever graced Australian roads and remain no different today.

I have not witnessed a Commodore model yet that has actually had the dignity to age with grace. They are nothing more then rattly, squeeky, horrible, poor quality, unreliable jokes … PERIOD !!

If Commodore’s and Falcon’s are the most suited then why are Toyota’s the most prefered supplier of vehicle in the country and outback.

Mmmm … !!

Fact is, most quality imports from Japan and Europe have long proven to age with more grace and demonstrate greater levels of reliability and dependability then a typical Falcon or Commodore.

As for your lame and p*ss poor critism of the Kluger … you still haven’t printed what Top Gear said about it and thier harsh critism aimed at those who have stated it has inferior dynamics and dangerous.

Infact, they were quite blunt and rude in thier critism at those who have passed comment on the Kluger otherwise.

Go on Wheelnut .. be a man (instead of a boy) and quote exactly what the Top Gear Magazine states.

Truth is … you don’t have the spine too you weak prick.

You and are your Holden/Ford freaks are shear, rotten pathetic losers.

Oh yeah – and don’t ever judge Toyota’s corporate decision in Australia because unlike Holden and Ford, they are returning good profits which will only stand to strengthen thier viability and people’s job security not to mention are selling more vehicles then Holden and Ford combined.

It is Holden and Ford who have been retrenching jobs, returning multi-million dollar losses, downsizing support of local motorsport not to mention the dismiss of the GMH 5.0 V8, Ford Fairlane and soon the 4.0 L6

Get a grip and and take a long hard look at how the world really is and not how you dream it to be in la, la, land.

Toyota and most other manufactuers have been savvy and moved with the times while companies like Holden and Ford carn’t accept the glory days are long gone.

Livng in the past is destroying thier modern day exsistance and them listening to like minded people like yourself certainly has helped thier cause.

We live in a society that continuely evolves and always will and unless people and companies evolve with it – they get left behind without a damn from anyone.

Harsh words but all so true.

Enjoy living in the past … you belong there !!
Wheelnut

TP In regards to HSV – You might not need 6-pot Calipers or Cross Drilled Rotors on a V8 Road Car…. yet do you really need 200Kw in a FWD 6 Cylinder Sedan?

Do you really need Cruise Control; Trip Computer; Power Windows; or Central Locking? Do you really need 6 Airbags?

No! but its nice to know that they’re there just in case helping you stay safe on the road and making the drive alot easier.
realcars

Wheels have proven that the Kluger readily falls over and it too like the majority of the Toyota lineup is based on the Camry platform.Clever electronics failed to hide this platforms inherent imbalance

One has to be worried about how inherently unstable the Gaudy plastic chromed Prado is given it’s Hilux platform.

Ford have started with an inherently stable and balanced platform for the Falcon and the electronic aids compliment this fact rather than attempt to cover up the underlying dynamic shortcomings as is the case with these Toyota platforms.

Given Toyota’s resources one would think they would at least try to get the basics right in the first place.
realcars

The fact u cannot switch these electonic aids off on the Aurion demonstrates Toyotas lack of faith in the dynamic stability of their vehicles.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Wheelnut – once again, you have passed nothing more then just shear rotten crap.

Toyota enjoys a strong reputation because the fact is, they age and remain for more reliable and dependable then a typical Holden or Ford.

Thats one of the very reasons why Toyota (and many other manufacuers may i add) have boomed in recent years becuase they have satisfied the greatest test of all – Test Of Time – far more convincingly then Holden and Ford … PERIOD !!

As for your statement that there are more old Holdens and Ford’s getting around… durrr – becuase in the past they held nearly 50% of the local market between them but how times have change – DRAMATICALLY !!

Toyota’s are not just reliable and dependable in the short term, they remain strong with age – it’s called aging with grace, something Holden and Ford know nothing about.

You truely have been living an extremely shealted live if you believe Holden and Ford are quality products. You are not a car enthusiast – just a down right freak of nature … PERIOD !!

You know absolutely nothing and your pathetic comments couldn’t be truer prove.

Just accept it – Holden and Ford have long sold amoung the poorest quality and most unreliable vehicles to have ever graced Australian raaods and for many generations they got away with it while imports didn’t have much influance.

But, as generations evolved and imports grew – the market soon relised that there are far higher quality cars with greater levels of reliability, dependability, durability and refinement that can be purchased hence why Holden and Ford’s combined share of the Australian market literally crumbled from approx 50% many years ago to 25% today.

Variety and choice … done our automotive market wonders.

Go ahead fella, live in your own little world while the rest of market evolves with time.

And don’t forget : Test Of Time – is the greatest judge of all, proves how pathetically wrong you are.
BOSSCR

TP Says:
July 27th, 2008 at 9:55 am
1. Cabs have easier lifes,

You obviously havent seen the way Melbourne cabbies drive.

For all the Toyota lovers, think back to when you were a kid and drawing pictures of your desired first car. The car you dreamed to own. Think about the posters of cars you had in your bedrooms. The model cars on your shelves. The cars you would watch on a Sunday arvo racing around Mt Panorama with your dad and brothers. Think about the day that your neighbour got their new car, the latest model 4 door sedan…..Tell me, how many of these memories have anything to do with a Toyota?

CA, can I suggest a limit put on responses to these articles. There’s kids asking for their dinner. Dogs wanting a walk. Camry’s that need there sheepskin seatcovers to be washed. Blue rinses to be applied. Lawn bowls to be played, all because you presented a review on 4 cars and a Toyota came 2nd last. Please think about the consequences of your actions.
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Realcars – Toyota’s are competant handlers. You are so desperate the best you got is clutch at straws.

Go back to bed and dream of fairies in la, la, land !!

You have got nothing …

Wheelnut – don’t be spineless and quote the Kluger article … i’ve been waitng for a long time but haa – you haven’t got the nerve to.

Weak isn’t even the word to describe you !!
Wheelnut

In relation to the More aFords and Holdens than Toyotas Statement….

If Holdens and Fords were/are such poor quality and as unreliable as you and your crew would like us to believe shouldn’t there be a lot less of them around now?

Conversely. if Toyotas are be as reliable and well built as you would also like us to believe – then; [over the same period of time that all 3 have been in oz - 50 years] shouldn’t Toyotas have sold more cars than what they have -shouldn’t there be alot more of them?
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Bosscar – we live in 2008 and 1968.

You too have failed miserably to evolve with time.

Better still, how did Holden and Ford fail so miserably to retain buyers and interest in thier cars … mmm !!

The answer is simple – the market become educated and relised how poor Holden and Ford really are. Other manufactuers injected greater passion and desire to own much better cars and that’s exactly and the market evolved.

Holden and Ford today are nothing, just crumbling ‘has-beens’ and personally, bulk of the market couldn’t care less.

That first girlfriend you ever had – i bet you have long moved on because you meet someone better … have a think about it !!

Trying to wrench at patriotic heartstrings is as desperate and pathetic as Holden’s latest advertisments. I guess it’s the last attempt to salvage what little remains.
Wheelnut

You;re telling me to accept that [according to you] Holden and Ford don’t make quality cars

Yet it seems that you are unable to accept the fact that Wheels did the test;and the Kluger failed..whereas oother cars did the test and were able to stay on all 4 wheels

Not to mention that you can’t accept your beloved Toyota got beaten by a Ford

It’s also ironic that you accused Bavarian Missile of not being able to accept other peoples opinions.
Yet you are the one who is unable to accept other peoples opinions as evidenced by your offensive language personal attacks and insults etc. which shows that you are unable to conduct yourself in a calm rational civilsed manner.

I believe that what they refer to as Double-Standards
AC COBRA

Guess Who Aka Magoo – Toyoda have supplied amoung the most boring, bland, awful unreliable cars to have ever graced Australian roads and they still don’t rate highly in Quality / Customer Satisfaction Surveys today.

You can squeeze every bit of mileage out of a typical FORD donk, but as any engine from Toyoda will fail big time > everytime.

For many years, Ford designed and engineered many great sports car also Ford is the wealthiest, most profitable, stable, robust, recognised and respected automotive manufactuer today.

Motorsport … Ford has re-ignited itself in and growing stronger by the year.

So what’s gonna be your pathetic and p*ss poor excuse when Ford’s current ambitions come to fruition over the next few years because not only will there be an increase in hotted up Fords from FPV but prestiage machines like Ford G6E.

Ford is on a path to not only continue to engineer and manufactuer quality, reliable, dependable and durable vehicles for the general market but increase it’s presence in the luxury market with G6E while re-establishing links with sports / performance cars and motor-sport.

Quite frankly – Ford is travelling strong towards achieveing those ambitions.
realcars

Time and time again it has been demonstrated how inherently unstable the Camry platform is on which the majority of Toyota’s and Lexus are based. The Lexus has the advantage of RWD but the dynamic deficit of the Camry platform remains. This is compromised even more by the various applications this platform is put.

Thankfully Falcon platform is limited to Falcon and Territory applications at which it excels.

Toyota has compromised dynamic stability and safety with it’s all encompassing use of the deficient Camry platform across it’s range with a platform that isn’t even satisfactory for it’s original intended use let alone all the other applications with higher KWs and higher centres of gravity.
BOSSCR

Guess Who aka … !! Says:
July 27th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
The answer is simple – the market become educated and relised how poor Holden and Ford really are. Other manufactuers injected greater passion and desire to own much better cars and that’s exactly and the market evolved.

ARE YOU SUGGESTING A TOYOTA IS PASSIONATE AND AN OBJECT OF DESIRE???

Answer this question. Which Toyota did you desire to own?

BTW, I wasnt pulling at heart strings, I was (and still am) trying to understand what is so desirable and passionate about a Toyota. Dont go the reliability angle, because that would be like suggesting I eat a cheese and tomato sandwich for every meal because I know what im going to get everytime and there is little room for dissapointment. I dont know about you, but Id like a bit of mustard or hot salami on that sandwich.
Wheelnut

Dingo do you honestly believe that the best way to get someone to agree with you is to start out on the offensive and continually attack and insult them? If so it shows what a pathetic immature spoilt little brat you really are

Therefore; you are the one who should grow up and realise that not everyone thinks the same way or has the same opinion as you and not everything goes your own way or turns out the way you would like… its called Reality also known as Life
Golfschwein

This is amazing. A simple test between 4 cars determined a winner and 2 or 3 people of certain personality types can’t hack the result. They’d be soccer hooligans in a parallel universe, trashing hotels and towns in the wake of their team’s 2-nil loss.

Me? I was brought up with Holdens and would like to have seen the Calais fare better, but am realistic to know that its wheezy engine and bling-free interior lets the side down compared to those of its newer peers.

So I accept the result. Others need to do the same.
Golfschwein

BOSSCR, he owns the misshapen previous generation Camry Sportivo, so he’s not qualified to talk about style or dynamic panache. Reliability and JD Powers results is all he knows, until he spots the bulging passenger-side airbag cover and peeling cloth door trims or until he gets stranded by the most famous Camry bugbear, the buggered head gasket.

Happy Motiring.
Wheelnut

In one of the final scenes at the end of Mad Max – they actually blew up a Toyota Celica NOT the iconic [Falcon based] Last Interceptor… which shows even back then Hollywood Movie Director George Miller didn’t like Toyotas.
Wheelnut

Sanjay: “….the aurion is every bit as australian as the falcon or commodore, even if its too embarassing to admit.

why havent you changed it, caradvice? (on the first page, saying the aurion and accord are japanese). its like saying the magna/380 was a japanese car when the only japanese thing about it was the brand name.

If a Cat has Kittens in an Oven does that make them Cakes?

The reason people refer to the Aurion as Japanese is because its the company that made them not where they made in the same way people refer to BMW as German even though some of them are made in Seth Efrica..
Wheelnut

Proverb: Inorder to know where you’re going; you must first know where you have come from.

Translation – what we are and what we will become is all as a result of what we were in the past.. in simpler terms [for the Toyota fans] History plays a bigger part in; or impact on our Future than most people realise.
Andrew M

Dingo,
we all know who is telling the porkies regarding toyotas and tradies, and it sure isnt wheelnut.

you live in mining la la land. that is where corporate money buys vehicles.
on building sites, the money that buys vehicles comes from a bloke who lays some bricks and then goes home to a family.
vehicles in this world arent refered to as a unit number (like in the mines) but rather as a work vehicle. the very same vehicle that must be budgeted from the same monies that pays the grocery bill.

stop spreading your rot, because you have obviously never visited a building site if you think the world of tradies spins around toyotas like you think it does.
NEWS FLASH!!!!! it doesnt

also,
i find it funny that you are calling the ford fans sore losers??? WTF.
i mean ford pulled toyotas pants down and spanked them in this outing.
just keep wiping those bitter tears…….

TP,
what i was trying to point out is that a HSV isnt warranted against competitive use on a race track therefore when you keep bringing up about the brake fade incident, they were also using the vehicle outside its recommendations.
once you take your vehicle onto a race track, both your warranty and insurance becomes void.

if toyota can defend the kluger roll by saying it was being used outside its intended boundaries, then holden can say the same with the brake fade issue.
TP

This just in, Ford cars are so exciting they are posting $8 Billion losses every QUARTER
Golfschwein

And your point is…..?

Okay, so Ford are in a bit of trouble financially. Is this something to do with Ford coming first, Honda coming second, Toyota coming third and Holden coming fourth in this test?
Andrew M

this just in…….
ford australias latest posting was a 100million profit
Golfschwein

Goodness Andrew M! That’s quite good, isn’t it? Well done Ford Australia! Congratulate yourselves!
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Bosscar – the Celica GT4 or Supra. Today, i would be happy with the TRD Aurion or if my budget stretched enough, the new 311kw / 500nm 5.0 V8, 8-speed paddle shift Lexus IS-F. On market in Oz as of October.

The best people like yourself can gather todays is comments about passion and soul. Incase you haven’t noticed, Holden and Ford lost that years ago not to mention Toyota’s has done a great job of tearing them apart.

I suppose your modern day version of passion is rebadged Holden Daewoo’s … what a joke !!

And while we are talking about passion and soul – it’s crystal clear Holden and Ford haven’t got an ounce left becuase they continue to crumble year upon year.

Isn’t passion and soul suppose to give you life … haa -Holden and Ford have got no life. It’s gone !!

* Jobs … GONE

* Profits … GONE

* Sales … GONE

* GMH 5.0 V8 … GONE

* Frailane … GONE

* L6 … nearly GONE

What passion and soul are you talking about exactly because when i look at the current shape of Holden and Ford, i see nothing but emptiness.

However, take a glance over at the Toyota stable and it’s bursting with activity / life – literally !!
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Walk into a Holden or Ford dealership today and what do you hear … crickets (spelling).

Walk into a Toyota dealership and what do you hear … the roar of live, activity, wheeling and dealing.

Life my friend is passion and soul not silence broken by the sound of crickets.

oooow … there’s that warm and fuzzy feeling again !!
Wheelnut

But Andrew didn’t you hearthe news about all the new developments taking place in Emerald QLD? Not only are they building:
the Worlds tallest sjy scraperl the worlds largest international Airport; Australias Biggest Westfield shoppingtown [20 cinemas]; A Wet n Wild Theme Park;

But theres also ging to be A NASCAR Oval Racetrack;
A replica of the Snowy Mountain River Scheme; A giant statue of a size 20 steel capped boot; and here’s the biggie…. Toyota have decided to build a new assembly line there

So dingo is virtually surrounded by construction sites
http://. Naughtyius Maxiumus

The rumour in the mines is they are building a Kings Cross there to make him discover passion….HE WONT BE ABLE TO SAY…..OH WHAT A FEELING! THAT WILL NUMB HIM!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUCH!
http://aca Guess Who aka … !!

Andrew – you hit the nail the head fella … when it comes to forking out money from private purses it is Toyota and many other manufactuers that are predominately the choice these days and the slowing sales of Holden and Ford is a perfect example.

Drive.com not long ago published the 2008 Fleet Purchase Percentages and total sales of Falcon’s and Commodores in 2008 (todate)have been approx 84% fleet purchased up 4% from approx 80% in 2007.

Oh yeah, and it’s worth mentioning that the Aurion infact sells in greater numbers to the private buyer then the Falcon.

Corolla – 60% private, 40% fleet.

I suggest you stop talking shear crap and research some raw truth if it’s doesn’t hurt to much not to mention Toyota’s 4×4′s / commercials have long been the most popular choice with not only industries and mines but with tradies, farmers and off-road enthusiasts.

Better still, what do alot of tradies do with thier work vehicles on weekends … that’s exactly right – tow thier boats, camper vans or enjoy a bit of adventure off-road and correct me if i am wrong (of which i’m not) but Toyota and Nisaan are by far the most popular and have been for many years.

Holden and Ford barely even get a mention.

You know what i like about people like you, Wheelnut and few others … having a chat wit

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