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2008 Holden Commodore Sportwagon Review
2008 Holden Commodore Sportwagon Review
2008 Holden Commodore Sportwagon Review

2008 Holden Sportwagon Review & Road Test

- Review by Paul Maric.

GM Holden has taken a pretty bold move with the introduction of its new VE Commodore based Sportwagon. The previous VZ’s target market of commercial users saw the wagon stereotyped as a bland, boring ‘rep-mobile’.

Enter 2008 and the successful VE Commodore. Holden wants to clear that ‘rep-mobile’ image with a Chrysler 300C-esque station wagon that appeals to a broader market, including families and people with active lifestyles.

Speaking at Holden’s media launch of the Sportwagon, Chief Designer Richard Ferlazzo said the design philosophy was to create a vehicle that was tailored to those buyers considering an SUV. The Sportwagon is considered by Holden to be a compromise between function and form, with an emphasis on ride quality and design.

Holden’s Sportwagon is based on the Commodore short-wheel-base platform and not, as in the past, on the WM long-wheel-base platform. The Sportwagon maintains the same length as the sedan but still manages to be one of the most spacious wagons on the market.

The tailgate cuts into the roofline to allow easy access when parked against walls and other cars. The Sportwagon needs just 268mm of clearance to swing the tailgate open, meaning that hectares of room aren’t required to load the shopping or the kid’s soccer gear.

2008 Holden Commodore Sportwagon Review
2008 Holden Commodore Sportwagon Review
2008 Holden Commodore Sportwagon Review
2008 Holden Commodore Sportwagon Review

$110-million was poured into the development of the Sportwagon (on top of the $1.03-billion spent on Commodore and $105.1-million spent on the Utility program) with just over half a million kilometres spent on the road testing.

The sporty design comes at a cost to interior volume though. The outgoing VZ station wagon could house up to 1402-litres with the rear seats up, while the Sportwagon can facilitate just under two-thirds of that volume at 895-litres. The rear is more accessible though, with the load height being increased by some 36mm.

The drive route had the assembled journalists drive across a variety of surfaces including bumpy asphalt, gravel and twisty mountain roads.

I started off in a Berlina. The bleak looking interior and monotone LCD screen did nothing to detract attention from the lifeless four-speed automatic gearbox featured in Omega and Berlina variants. The gearbox is mated to the 180kW Alloytec V6 which struggles at time to find the right gear for the terrain. I often found myself sinking the boot right in to keep momentum up, while overtaking took a bit of a run up.

Luckily though, it was a different story in my next ride, the SV6. The five-speed automatic transmission feels light-years ahead of the archaic four-speed and works brilliantly in unison with the 195kW high-output Alloytec motor. Sport shift can be selected by flicking the lever into the sequential mode, providing more apparent downshifts and retention of gears for upshifts.

It wasn’t long before I found myself in the luxo V8 model of the pack – the Calais V-Series V8. Here, 270kW of raw V8 power is delivered via the six-speed 6L80E automatic transmission. Generally speaking, it’s a decent unit which adapts to your driving style quite well. It too features a sport mode which improves shift quality for brisk driving.

2008 Holden Commodore Sportwagon Review
2008 Holden Commodore Sportwagon Review
2008 Holden Commodore Sportwagon Review
2008 Holden Commodore Sportwagon Review

The SS V-Series hero model was the most enjoyable of the bunch from a driver’s perspective. By chance our particular test route in nthis car featured some gravel, which simply amplified the SS V’s very impressive on-road dynamics. This particular vehicle featured a tight six-speed manual gearbox, which proved pleasurable to switch through cogs.

The general driving feel of all models was quite positive. You would be hard pressed to realise that you were in fact driving a station wagon. Even during the latter part of the day when the heavens opened, all vehicles remained firmly planted to the road, without even a hint of the regular light-end feel of a station wagon.

One of the vehicles (the Berlina) had a rattle coming from the rear roofline which became more apparent as we trekked over rougher terrain.

Sportwagon’s model range mirrors its sedan counterpart both in terms of features and model designations. The only difference being the addition of alloy wheels for the base model Omega.

Pricing was a keen talking point. Holden were keen to point out that Sportwagon is up to $5600 cheaper than the VZ station wagon it replaces. With prices maxing out at $60,290 for the V8 Calais V, it also makes the Sportwagon an affordable prospect for families looking at mid-size SUVs in a similar price range.

Although Holden wouldn’t speculate on competitors in this segment, it’s quite clear that one of the main – if not only competitors – is the Chrysler 300C wagon. With most sales planned to be heading toward females, it will be interesting to see if the familiarity of a Commodore will sway buyers over American muscle.

2008 Holden Commodore Sportwagon Review
2008 Holden Commodore Sportwagon Review
2008 Holden Commodore Sportwagon Review
2008 Holden Commodore Sportwagon Review

We can also expect to see a HSV derivative of the Sportwagon in the near future. HSV is working on an R8 specced version of the Sportwagon to be sold alongside its range of V8 powered VE sedans.

Fuel consumption remains quite similar to the sedan range of vehicles. During the launch the recorded fuel consumption figures were very similar to the average figures quoted by Holden. Although it’s positive that the figures are accurate, more can still be done to bring these figures down to levels achieved by Toyota and Honda V6 engines.

Holden wouldn’t comment on future products, but rest assured that if a diesel or E85 motor is introduced, it will almost certainly make its way into Sportwagon.

Displacement on demand for the V8 range will also be introduced later in the year when the VE receives a refresh. Holden delayed introducing the fuel-saving technology because it wanted it to feature in the model refresh, opposed to the introduction of a single variant.

Safety features such as Electronic Stability Control, dual stage front driver and passenger airbags, side impact airbags for driver and front passenger and side curtain airbags are all standard fitment across the range.

All in all, Holden’s new Sportwagon is really a stellar family car. The increase of head room and radical styling will ensure it sings the right tune with the public. It won’t be long before every man and his dog gets their hands on a Sportwagon. In fact, even boss Mark Reuss has ordered a Sportwagon for his family – his wife wasn’t a big fan of the out-there Atomic colour though!

2008 Holden Commodore Sportwagon Review
2008 Holden Commodore Sportwagon Review
2008 Holden Commodore Sportwagon Review
2008 Holden Commodore Sportwagon Review

Click here to browse Holden Sportwagon Specifications and Features.

  • http://evo Frugal One

    *****PRIMO!*****

    Looks good, if a bit to much like a hearse!

    Good value too, only $1k more than a wagon.

    LPG/BenchSeat? :-)

    Cheers,

    F-0

  • Iamthestig

    Well, it looks OK but I doubt the private buyers will flock to it. I would have bought a VE Adventra if they were to make one (I did have a VZ LX6 for 3 years/120,000kms) especially if a diesel, but I have happily jumped ship to a Volvo XC70 Diesel.

    Holden have a fair way to go for fit/finish and refinement in comparision. The VE is a big step forward from the VZ but is it enough ? Where is the electric tailgate option and useful features for families live built in rear booster seats ? Rear vision won’t be great with those thick rear pillars – where is the comment on that Paul ?

    Yes, the Volvo is more expensive but I am averaging 8.5l/100km all the time which goes a fair way to make up the difference monthly…

  • http://navelcontemplation.blogspot.com/ SuperCujo

    Looks decent on the front 3 quarter view, but the straight side on view brings out the real issue with the look of this car, it is too rear heavy. The rear panel from the wheel back looks huge in comparison to the front and unbalances the whole look. Needs a bigger window at the back.

    See the current Audi A6 and Subaru Liberty wagons to see how a good wagon proportion works. The big difference is the lack of a rising beltline like the Commodore.

    The next model Commodore is going to have to shrink in order to survive into the future. Drag it down one size segment and lose 300kg.

  • riceboy

    hehe… adding to that comment that it looks like a hearse, it’d be a perfect hearse for a petrolhead…

  • No Name

    Hearse Furgal- Honestly what are you on mate.Try Hondas FRV (UK) for a bench seat matey.

    Certainly better looking than my vectra wagon. At last a decent wagon for you folks to bash around in. That will certainly steal some of Toyotas (No wagaons at all) sales.

    GM bring this RWD thing to the UK please with a gurt big diesel in it.

  • http://deleted Alex

    Hmmm. Your right No Name. They should put a diesel in it and send it over at bargain prices. Then again, most of the UK would probably prefer the Insignia.

  • Golfschwein

    It looks beaut.

    Wait for the update, I reckon. The base V6 with 4 speed has to be gone. Direct injection 3.2s or 3.6s with minimum 5 speed auto is what’s needed to stop Omega and Berlina being a laughing stock. Dedicated LPG and Turbo Diesels with 6 speed autos will bring even more folks in, along with the hybrids being worked on.

  • ScottT

    Looks OK, But quality control is still left to the customer. Ergonomics need to be improved too, steering wheel is still too big, cruise control needs to be moved off the indicator stalk to th steering wheel like evereyone else. Handbrake is still akward and some bits are just flimsy, try shaking the centre console. Holden still gunning for fashion over function.

  • Roddy

    gorgeous

  • aw

    No matter how good it looks doesn’t take away from the fact that it is still a Holden

  • Tony M

    Looks OK at certain angles. As for what you get, well GMH had a chance to introduce a LPG model and did not yet. I don’t believe it’s going to sell big time. Mr and Mrs average are struggling with their fuel bills and this car doesn’t make it any easier.
    Everything look nice when you first buy it but after a couple of months it will just be a Commodore that uses a lot of petrol and is hard to park.
    Please don’t get me wrong, I hope it’s going to be a great success.

  • http://www.littlepixiegifts.com.au Gift-Ed

    Looks the goods. I’m surprised they didn’t launch it at the same time as the VE update though. It deserves to have the direct injection engines and better gearbox from the start. Current engine and 4 speed is a joke.

    I hope it sells well though. Anything to stop the number of Mum’s in 4WD’s on the road is welcome.

  • Frosty

    Paul, the Alloy wheels on the Omega are mirrored from the sedan as well. The MY09 Omega sedan came with Alloys, body coloured exterior door handles and mirror scalps and the extra airbags. The only specification difference to the Sportwagon is the rear parking sensors on the wagon. Just thought I would bring it up. Realise when testing many vehicles of different makes a small detail like I mentioned is quite easy to do.
    Cheers

    Frosty

  • Matt

    I have actually seen one on the road – I work near the Holden factory in Elizabeth – two went by one morning when I was driving to work – doing a lap around the ‘block’. Anyway – from the front – they looked just like a regular VE – it was only once I caught a view of the profile as I got closer and then past, that I realised they were the wagons. I guess that is a good thing?

    Having had a day in the older VZ Adventra, I would hope the build quality has improved – the one I drove had only 50k on the clock, and already the glove-box had a huge gap showing, and there were various rattles from the back.

  • Wheelnut

    There is apparenlty a 3 month wait for the sportwagon.
    I found from my local Holden Dealer that you can also get a Calais-V8 Wagon with 6 Speed Manual which wasn’t mentioned in the article.

    Bavarian Missile was considering buying one However; she is now looking more closely at buying a Volvo V70 T-6 Wagon with AWD….Gonna need a bigger garage me thinks!

    If or when Holden do release an AWD version I expect it will use either the same AWD system avaialble with the new Insignia [which will also be the basis for the New Torana] or the same AWDsystem as used by the Saab 9-X cross-over [which is similar to Subaru]

  • Carl

    No LPG???……NO THANKS!!!!

  • Wheelnut

    In terms of how a car performs etc “Australian New Car Buyer” is as respectable and reliable as a resource as “Unique Cars” is for the value of cars… which if I recall you or one of your fellpw Toyo-philes criticised on a previous blog.

  • http://navelcontemplation.blogspot.com/ SuperCujo

    How the hell did the VE Commodore win Wheels Car of the Year anyway?

  • Wheelnut

    The other thing is that Holden tend to use the R&D prototypes [mules] as media vehicles when the car is released so the engines etc are looser and the cars have more ks under their tyres….Whereas Ford use actual production cars which are yet to be broken in.

    Which could explain why in the majority of tests in magazines such as Wheels and Motor overall the Holden does better > often wins as its more free revving etc..
    [despite the old 4 speed auto].

  • Wheelnut

    Problem is there are so many people expecting “Champagne” quality – performance features specifications etc on a “Coca-Cola” budget.

    The quality might not be that good but you get what you pay for, Either way its definitely much better than a 300C

  • Paul Maric

    Wheelnut:

    That’s not accurate information.

    R&D cars are not put on press fleets. Press fleet vehicles are normal production vehicles which are run in to around 700km and then handed over to the media.

    Unless you are driving a pre-production model, you are getting a proper car that has made it off the production line.

  • Frosty

    Carl, dedicated LPG is on its way very soon. Along with Turbo diesel V6, Holden are also getting other hybrid and other fuel technology.
    Luke GT and other Ford fans complain if Holden fans critisize the Falcon and yet do exactly that to the Holden. Having driven a FG for a week while interstate with work I can assure you the FG has many faults that would definately not make Falcon fans happy.

  • Wheelnut

    I referered to you or one of other [3] Toyo-philes – as you often generalise by refering to us who aren;t as big as Toyota fans as you; as the Circus.

    I have since re-visited the other blog to find that it was Oh What A Feeling who made the comment about the reliability of Unique Cars as a resource and therefore I apologise to you..

    I also noticed on that particular blog you Toyo-philes are talking among yourselves not actually talking about toyota [for a change] but continue to criticise Holden and Ford.
    Which is ironic because just yesterday Oh What A Feeling
    asked Us to stay on Topic.

    Yet the point is New Car Buyer is about as reliable respectable as Unique Cars as well as the local Newspaper

    As for making a mess of us – Whatever!… the mere fact that you Toyo-philes are often the first to resort to personal insults and offensive language indicates that you are either starting to lose or have already lost the fight.

    Remember the japanese proverb he who throws the first punch has lost.

    However; Those who run CA like to try and keep things on Topic so can you and the other Toyo-philes try not to hi-jack this blog as you have in the past.

  • Wheelnut

    My mates at the Holden Factory have told me that on the odd occassion Prototypes [which are close to 95% production ready] were used for reviews as at the time there weren’t enough production cars available..

    The same reason as to why Holden only supplied ANCrAp with 4 cars for the crash tests – just after the VE Sedan was released.

    However; this morning I drove past the Holden Factory and there are appears to be a reasonable number of Sportwagons awaiting delivery – given that there is apparently a 3-4 month wait for them ATM

  • Carl

    Frosty…..good to hear the LPG is on it’s way, Lets hope the hybrid is LPG powered as well!!!

  • Wheelnut

    I didn’t admit Commodores ar poor quality – the fact there are so many more 20+ year old Commodores and other Holdens still on the roads as compared to Toyotas of the same age proves otherwise.

    My point was that even though some people think that the quality isn’t that good.. you get what you pay for.

    which is why i made the comment there are os many people [like yourself] who want champagne quality on a coca-cola budget

    When you take into account the size of the Australian market compared to overseas and the amount of resources available to build the VE…. Holden have done a good job at providing Australians with a family sized car with various features such as ESP ABS Side Airbags etc which was once only found on more expensive euro imports for 30-40K..

  • Bavarian Missile

    Well just as we mentioned yesterday Dingo does take over Holden blogs with Toyota dribble………yawn

    Toyota could learn a lot from Holden in the design department this is a hot looking wagon in any ones eyes around the world. Toyota dont come close with anything this stylish in wagons or sedans for that matter!

    Bloody nice ,well done GMH……….

  • http://integra Car 1

    Frosty………..you are an idiot. The FG is streets ahead of Holden and Toyota in build quality and reliability.

  • Wheelnut

    QUOTE {LukeGT]: good … you have admitted Commodores are poor quality, now stop talking about them as they are amoung the poorest quality and most unreliable vehicles that have ever graced Australian roads and remain no different today.

    In case you haven’t noticed – the topic of this particular blog is the VE Sportwagon which funnily enough is based on a Holden Commodore… and as I intend to stay on topic [as i always do] it will be virtually impossible for me to make a comment without referring to Holden or Commodore

  • Moderator

    Please TRY to stay on topic!

  • Wheelnut

    QUOTE [Supercujo]: How the hell did the VE Commodore win Wheels Car of the Year anyway?

    Doesn’t matter how it won; the fact remains that it did… in the same way that ATM Toyota are Number 1 despite producing some of the most bland boring cars around….GET OVER IT!!!!

  • Jimbo

    Does anyone know any of the details on the diesel that is to be fitted to the Sportwagon/Sedan?
    The Sportwagon may not be perfect, but it does look good and if the Diesel and LPG models are decent performers and have good economy figures I don’t think you will get much better for your money.

    Some people have unrealistic expectations of the old Conformadore. To quote Wheelnut “Champagne quality – performance features specifications etc on a Coca-Cola budget”

  • senator

    Well atleast the luxury versions like the calais caprice senator and grange use real pressed alluminium fittings in the interior unlike the fg which uses fake plastic.

    Have you read the lastest motor magazine the senator is a much better car and than a gt-e (yes the ve is 2 years outdated), and the thing is with the gt-e it has basically the same crap leather seats as a g6e, saggy crap not even luxury sport (and they suck according to motor) and guess what it does even have electric seast for the front passenger and it costs 77 grand (“luxury car”) grand the seantor on the other hand has 8 way electic seats and 3 posistion memory for both fron passengers, top quality leather seats as quoted; “The front seats give great support and look expensive, replete with alcantara inserts and neatly exposed stitching. But the sculpted rear bench is a stand out – offering almost as much support as it does up front providing good visibility”. ” the most cohesive interior of the trio, the senator feels a class above the others.

    Yes the gt-e does not even offer flat blade rain sensing wipers and it costs 77 grand “luxury car” atleast put the sat-nav in for free. It also has some fake brown wood like plastic trim unlike the ve senator which the door is almost 100% leather and stiching unlike the fg which is mostly full of plastic on the door trims.

    Hey Paul Maric i was wondering if you have a croatian heritage?. But You did something wrong in your review the omega sedan does come with 16″ alloys just like the wagon and 6 airbags standard (early ve update this year) the only differnce with the sportwagon that it has rear parking sensors standard.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Dingo Toyota don’t make anything to compete against the Sportswagon,its only competitor is the 300c {that I thought is being phased out in Australia}I would take the Sportswagon any day!

    Dingo not all people that buy cars look or care about reliability surveys most will look for appearance first if they enjoy cars, performance second,this wagon passes both credentials extremely well.

  • senator

    Wrong Luke, you thing ford are perfect when they are not firstly have you even bothered like up problems with fords?
    Can I show the interior OF A AU FALCON THE WORST IN MODERN HISTORY, well i can asure you it looks like crap, to be honest the seats look like they have come off a small car as the are so small thin and crap quality. the rear is just as bad thin crap material of a laser.

    Why does a bf xt look almost identical to a bf which is fact put to pictures together, the even have the same hubcaps dating back to the au and the front bumber is identical, Uneducated people buying a new car will not know the differnce between the two so they wont buy it yes ford falcon will not be top seller again. Even a outdated ve has better lines road pressence than a fg which is a stated fact by many journalists, remeber the fairlane only sold one car in one month is that a disgrace or what? Yes ford gave it the axe

    I can assure you toyota and GM are a much better than ford. It seems like luke likes crap gt’s yes the ba gt had a 5 speed manual and it was slow 6.3 to 100 even the 300kw gts 300 vt series 2 which was the fastest sedan in the world in 99, as it achived 0-100 in 5.1 eventually overtaken in 2002 by the mercedes e55 amg v8 supercharged.

  • Ben

    This is a very nice looking vehicle. With the spec levels mimicking the sedan, it’s very unique! Though, with fuel prices etc. going up and the thirsty V6 & V8′s, along with the popular (but atrocious) 4spd auto, how is this practical? Take A BF MkIII E-gas for instance. Ok, it might not be as euro inspired as the FG & VE design-wise, but it is waaaaaay bigger inside for the family, luggage etc., has better fuel consumption and costs a hell of a lot less to fill up even! Sorry, but if I was in the market for a aussie-built wagon, the BF MkIII would be getting my $$$.

  • senator

    Luke is a idiot “PERIOD” acts like a litle 5 year old loser who things ford are the best, who can talk about toyota but not how successful ford is world wide? GM are second for just two years mate, gm have been sales leader for 77 years, what about ford, dont talk about toyota which is just in front at the moment

  • senator

    Thats why falcons are worth nothing today (depriciation) because of AUSTRALAIS WORST PRODUCTION CAR THE AU FALCON which had much more issues than the ve as did the ba and bf just look up some reviews of the falcon at drive. Luke whatever you say about the ve, carnt take away the fact that it has been successful as opposed to ford wheels car of the year nominated for world car of the year will the fg be nominated? exported everywhere unlike the falcon, will it be ever exported????????. Don’t talk about toyota being number 1 because everytime there is a toyota article you just talk shit again and criticise. Has Ford ever been number 1 car manufacturer, talk to me when the falcon is the number seller in australia and the number 1 car manufacturer in the world, im sorry i dont think it will happen. Now stop changing the topic you little shit EVERYTIME THERES A HOLDEN POST HE DOES NOT SHUTUP AS HE IS ANTI-HOLDEN AND HAS NO RESPECT FOR THE COMPANY WHICH HAS BEEN MORE SUCCESFUL THAN FORD, this post is about the new sportwagon GET OUT DONT TALK YOUR IRRELEVANT!

  • Nick

    Car 1 … Only thing Ford is ahead in is debt. Yes that right debt and GM is right behind. If the cars produced by these companies were that good, why are they not making money. Simple fact that most of you day dreamers do not understand is GM and Ford make crap cars and market it to people who seem to fall for it everytime.

  • o

    at least ford had the guts to put a bit of style into the au falcon although people werent ready for it.For the price the ford is a much better car.Thw intereior also doent look like its been ripped out of some anyomous car of the 90s its like 2 different teams designed the VE .The sportswagon looks way better than the sedan and will probably steal sales from the terriotiy and kluger.I also hate toyota yet they do have the absollute most reliable cars.

  • Dave

    The VE sedan gained alloy wheels back in March 2008 along with 6 air bags, a chrome grille, and body-coloured door handles and mirrors. The article ought to be updated.

  • burt

    another holden lemon i will give it 12 months before it to is dicontinued!!!!!!!!

  • Dave

    Also I forgot to add it gained air conditioning in March 2008 as well.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_VE_Commodore
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Commodore

  • Wheelnut

    Quote [Luke GT]: Wheelnut – there are more aged Commodores on the road becuase they sold more.

    That’s true they did sell more Commodores [and other Holdens] than Toyotas…

    However; if the quality of the Commodores [and other Holdens] is/was as bad as you would like to believe/think it is…. then surely wouldn’t the majority of all those hundreds of thousands of Commodore [and other Holdens] have fallen apart been written off or scrapped etc? – Think about it!

    The fact that they’re not and there are still so many Old Holdens around and [which BTW are more sort after by car enthusiasts and street machiners for restoration projects etc. Than Toyotas] means that they are quality/reliable cars that are built to last

  • Richo

    why don’t you blokes go off someone who has actually driven the bloody thing! His final comment was that it is a stellar family car that everyone is going to want to have. Unless you have actually driven one then pull your head in cos you don’t know what your talking about and your just going off your own personal opinions and prejudices, as well as a heft dose of ignorance!

    This is a good family car, nothing particularly flashy, but if your a family man who cant afford to have a family car AND a performance car, then surely even you euro fans can’t deny that an SS sportswagon would be a good solution.

  • Richo

    and from a purely styling point of view, the minor modifications holden has made to the VE’s interiors make it look quite good actually! and yes, the metal finishes are actually metal in the holdens! unlike the FG which are painted plastic. Don’t believe me? go down to a holden dealership and have a look, they are really metal i promise you!

  • Wheelnut

    VW were/are reportedly in a worse financial situation than Ford and GM combined. Which could explain why they were taken over by Porsche… Yet no one mentions that

    VW go too big too quickly and lost focus of their “bread and butter” market.. [whereas Porsche never have] as a result VW are having to streamline their range and have cars which share more components etc

    The same way GM and Ford did – but they are now undertaking plans to resolve the situation as well.

    Which brings us to Toyota – trying to enter so many new markets with a range of new vehicles to compete against more established companies…

    In some cases they have similar cars competing against other Toyota products [like Ford GM and VW] which could mean that one day The Big T could be in a similar financial situation to what GM Ford and VW are/were

    particularly if they keep sinking millions of dollars into F1 with very little return

    Inorder to succeed in business you should try to find a “niche” market and focus on what you are good at and not try to be everything to everyone.

  • Wheelnut

    And before you go off yet again Luke GT You should note I said

    Toyota COULD find themselves in a similar situation to what Ford GM and VW are/were

    NOT

    Toyota WILL find themselves in a similar situation to what Ford GM and VW are/were

  • Bavarian Missile

    Well said Richo..I only said to Wheelnut this morning “do these people even read the write ups on the cars or just pass judgment on their own personal opinion of the make?

    The Holden Ford debate has and always will be full of personal preference and opinions.However a real car enthusiasts can see that both cars are good just different in their own ways being on this site for over 12 months has taught me to appreciate that! If jernos were like some of the die hard one brand lovers on this site we would never hear the true account of what or how a car test drives,do any of you respect what the jernos have to say on the car or are you in denial that it could actuality be a great car no matter what your opinion!

    And before you come back at me Dingo for running down Toyota I like most people jeros included think Toyotas are boring I am not taking away from the fact they make reliable cars,just not passionate cars.

  • burt

    you are right richo every family should buy one at say $40,000 keep it till they are discontinued due to poor sales and then they will be worth $15,000 if you are lucky! just like the adventra wagon!why do holden bother!

  • http://www.allcommodoreday.co.nr DRIVN1

    Straight forward I am a Holden man through and through. As for the VE Commodore what and amazing piece of engineering, its a excellent car, I am in the car seen with clubs and car shows, the people that have got there VE’s are very happy with everything. About the only comment people make is the colours GMH bring out are not fantastic. Now for the new Ford i must say they are still hit with the ugly stick, the only bit I like of the FG is the front as it looks a bit Aston Martin. Now Toyota have alway thought that they are good on reliability, which is true, but again the looks are not appealing at all.

    I think the VE Commodore and the Sportswagon are going to do really well in sales. And if the people I have spoken to that are waiting on there orders, must mean that GMH have got a lot of orders. Good on them well deserved. Holden Commodore the best and always will be.

  • Wheelnut

    Looks are what draws you to not only a car but also your parner.

    When you see a particular car either on the road or in a showroom – If you like the way it looks you will want to walk up to it for an even closer look.

    You then look in the window to check out the interior… you then open the door and if the interior looks inviting it will make you want to take a seat.. to see how it feels

    When you take a seat you then grab the steering wheel and if you feel comfortable the next thing you will want to do is start it up… to see how it sounds

    If it sounds good the next step is to take it for a test drive to see how it handles.. then if you’re impressed by the performance chances are you will strongly consider buying one

    Which goes to show just how important Looks can be

  • Frosty

    Car 1, you have no right to call me a idiot, I have driven a FG and it is far from good considering its the newest of the lot. Yes it is probably the best in the eyes of most people at the moment but that will change very soon with the direct injection V6 just around the corner along with new transmissions. Also the dedicated LPG Commodore will absolutely kill the Falcons when its found that there will be absolutely no difference in specs to the petrol version apart from the obvious LPG benefits. Also with Turbo Diesel V6 and Displacement on Demand and other changes due inside 12 months for some and 24 months for others the Falcon will very quickly fall away and I mean very quickly. You really do need to grow up quickly before you get left behind also Car 1. The bias and jealousy will kill you. The difference between you and I is I realise the Commodore is 2 years older than the Falcon and yet the Falcon is one model more advanced than the VE due to the Awfully Ugly (AU) Falcons failure and the BA being brought foward. The VF will totally change in a good way the average family sedan and with this Falcon most likely being Australia’s last unless they get a export program going the future is a lot more bright for Holden in Australia. By the way the Commodore’s A Piller design will be changing also by 2010 at the latest and images have already been circulated about that going back as far as last year.

  • Frosty

    Does anyone know any of the details on the diesel that is to be fitted to the Sportwagon/Sedan?

    Jimbo
    The Turbo Diesel is said to be a 3.0ltr V6 VM Monteri. A larger V6 version and more modern of course of the 2.0ltr 4 cylinder unit in the Captiva. A very good motor indeed.

  • Alec

    Frosty,
    I would be keen to hear how Holden are going to change the A-Pillar, given that it is a major structural componant and the Re-Tooling costs would be significant.
    Let alone crash testing it if there are any changes to the steel frame.

  • Frosty

    Burt have you noticed everyone is ignoring you? Even other Ford fans. The Sportwagon will be around a lot longer that the Falcon Wagon and will be a winner and will put Commodore back of top of as sales. Already a 3 month waiting list even before those who don’t read the car articles in papers and on the net have a idea that there actually is going to be a new Commodore Wagon. Oce all Australia knows about it watch that 3 month wait get longer unless they add another shift to build more every day.

  • Frosty

    Alec, Its not really as hard as you make out it to be as even a small front window infront of the mirror. I am not saying they will do that but the fact is that it can be done and Holden have admitted the A Pillers are a problem and that there will be a change to it sooner than most will think. As mentioned and even I saw it, is that there have been reports the A Piller will be different soon and possibly the VF due out within the next 2 years. Not as difficult as you would think as long as it doesn’t affect the rigidness its fine (Stronger materials used)

  • o

    how can anyone say that the falocon look like it was hit with the ugly stick.I mistook an G6E for something german.Just because it sdoesmt look/make you look like a hoons car or bogan-mobile.Also the commodore is stuffed.2 years ago holden could have launched with deisel and dedicated LPG but no they didnt.FOrd is now stuffing around wioht diesel when i here that they could get the XF diesel and put it in.The mondeo wagon will eventually win due to euro looks and a diesel and good [ i think resale]

  • o

    also frosty adding a thrird shift is stupid that is how resale is ruined.Its better for there to be a demand than hundreds on lots

  • Alec

    Frosty,
    mate, you got no idea what you are talking about.

  • GhisGT

    Jesus christ, somebody put that Luke GT in a blender and turn it on.

    Nothing but a shi7 stirring moron who is hell bent on ruining every article on this website.

    Well done retard, you have done it again. Go make savoury love to a Prius.

  • The Axe

    Senator, you are deluded buddy…
    The HSV Senator has a 6.2l V8!!!! FPV GT-E 5.4l V8.. Think about the difference in capacity firstly.
    The Senator did not win the comparison by much. Holden does not win any comparisions where it matters most: SV6 v XR6, Berlina v G6 etc…

  • Richo

    O – bigger picture mate, holden will have to eventually put a third shift on due to exports. It takes 3 months to get a car from australia to the US or the middle east, holden’s two biggest markets outside of australia, so if supply becomes too limited in these markets, buyers will start going elsewhere which leaves holden with less sales. The third shift won’t be for Australia, it will be for exports

  • Wheelnut

    one way to improve visibility of any car in terms of the A-Pillar would be similar to the one featured on the Aussie Built “Axcess” Concept car a decade or so ago.

    From memory: The A pillar was curved slightly to match the profile of the front windscreen and side windows..
    However; the middle of the A pillar had a piece of perspex or toughened glass in it inorder to reduce the blind spot yet still maintain structural rigidity

  • Richo

    hey AXE, the V8 in the ford was designed for light commercial (truck) applications. Ford just put a DOHC head from a mustang onto it. The V8 in the HSV on the other hand was designed from the outset to be a performance car engine. No surprise then really that the HSV revs a heck of alot harder then the ford and is generally just a better engine. Ford’s performance market is the XR6 turbo, not the V8. Even the die hard ford fans (except you obviously) concede that the V8 in the falcon really isn’t much chop.

  • Richo

    also enough of this pushrods are ancient dinosaur stuff… the DOHC head has been around since the 1920′s for goodness sakes! Hardly state of the art! The benefit of DOHC is greater efficiency, however the benefit of pushrods is the engine can be made significantly more compact and more light weight. A reason why the big DOHC lump in the ford gives the falcon a very nose heavy feel, a problem not evident in the commodore

  • Wheelnut

    The other alternative is to have a windscreen similar to that on the od FB-EK Holdens [of which there are still a fair few around proving how good Holdens build quality is]

    The front windscreen of the FB-EK was more of a wraparound windscreen where it went beyond where the A pillar would be instead the A pillar was more upright and a bit further back where it matched up to the doors

  • T

    [of which there are still a fair few around proving how good Holdens build quality "WAS"]

    Fixed

    also it looks NOTHING like a hearse, hearse’s have LONGER backs than a usual wagon!

    This looks like an astra HATCH with an over elongated nose.

  • T

    Ps

    and the new nose on the calais and base model, make it look more like a BA falcon than ever.

  • burt

    ghisgt it seems to me lukegt know’s a lot more than you do about motor industry matters i have not seen a intelligent word from any of your blogs just rubbish and bagging!

  • Richo

    no ones listening burt

    T – the calais nose hasn’t changed at all since the VE’s launch! And all they did to the omega was put a bit of chrome in the grille, something that was never in a BA grille. So what the hell are you smoking?

  • Tomas79

    Spot on Burt!!

  • Go GM

    Wow nice looking wagon – very german looking

    As for all the above comments / Must be school holidays and all the little know it all nothings are feeling important.

  • GhisGT

    Toyota this… blah blah blah

    Do you hear that?

    Silence…

    No once cares

    :(

  • Duck

    What about this people evrybody should ignore Dingo.

  • http://integra Car 1

    Cant see this so called wagon doing very well really. Looks ok but the practicality compared to say a Terrirory is way behind. The very small load area in such a large car defeats the purpose of a wagon in the first place. Fuel consumption of the VE is the worst in the large car segment and poor quality is a common thing with Commodores. Will only steal sales from VE sedans but not other makes as only Holden bogans will buy them. Sales of VE will continue to slide. Holden was the biggest loser of sales in the last 12 months so expect them to cut V8 supercar funding in the near future as well. Those huge wheel arches dont help the look either, they look great on the Statesman because it is longer.

  • Duck

    As for the wagon it looks great. Even the base model wagon the Omega. Though one thing is that the back of a Omega, Berlina and Calais Sportswagon look to similar and that’s a bit of a shame. But other than that it looks great!

    And being that the Sportswagon is only $1000 over the sedan equivelant, I believe the Sportswagon will appeal to heaps of people and outsell the VE Sedan possibly.

  • Frosty

    Holden and non Toyota and non Ford fans remember to hijack their next release. I remember someone being told off for mentioning bad things about the FG Falcon but these same people telling off a Holden fan are doing exactly the same thing. Well as the Ford person said I will say to them. P off. This is a discussion by Holden people on the Sportwagon. Go back through the stories and talk about your car on the Falcon report. Its not that far back. Holden are onto a winner here and will definately need to incorporate a third shift to keep the demand up for here and the overseas markets, maybe those Ford employees put off at Geelong should apply for positions at Holden which no doubt will be needed before too long. Yes you will need to move interstate but at least there is more security there at Holden than there is at Ford. Ex Mitsubishi employees should also send in their curiculum Vitae.

  • burt

    ghisgt see that’s what i said you know nothing but insult’s! try and be intellegent for once and say something worth saying!

  • realcars

    Why don’t u fark off Lukegt u are as repetitious and as boring as the cars u endorse.

    Toyota don’t have anything that drives as good as a Commodore
    SO FARK OFF.

  • Duck

    “Will only steal sales from VE sedans but not other makes as only Holden bogans will buy them.”

    Car 1, no way I can put it but you are a tool! The car is for practicallity for families and not all families are holden fans and the car will suit families and may well sway them from the more bigger fuel guzzler crap off road ability the Territory.

  • Alec

    I think a lot of people forget that Ford & Holden both decided about 8 years ago that they no longer wanted to target Fleet Buyers like they had for all previous models.
    Instead aimimng for more private buyers. This decision can is reflected in their models line ups.

    While this is not the only reason for declining sales, it is a significant one, right after fuel economy.

    Toyota’s reign as the Company selling the most vehicles each year isn’t just due to its image of reliabilty but a combination of factors.
    One of those was Ford’s innefiecient marketing of the shift to the ‘new’ focus name from laser (the previous small car king) confused buyers & would have no doubt provided Toyota with a sales boost to the well known corolla name.

  • Duck

    Good one Realcars! ;)

  • realcars

    Know a bloke who prefers to drive his 200,000klm plus VS to his Kluger because it goes better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Bavarian Missile

    So another thread wrecked by Dingo and his disciples……….seems Burt and Tomas have had their 2 cents worth {as informative as it was listening to their OPINIONS only,gee you guys bring so much into a thread don’t you, so much fact!} just waiting for the third disciple TP to really destroy the post…………

    As we have mentioned this is a hot looking car performance wagon at an affordable price,clearly even Paul Maric thought so but I doubt you read the report,you both just want to argue the point with baseless facts to back up your arguments,Tomas seems he cant stand on his own two feet with out standing in someones shadow I guess he’ll comment more when Dingo returns so hes got a skirt to stand behind!

  • Wheelnut

    If the dramas associated with the VE or any other commodore for that matter were as prevailent or as widespread as you like to think they are.. then surely the Commodore and even holden for that matter would have ceased production years ago.

    Yes there have been a number of problems with the commodore However; the fact that Holden are in business they are still making the commodore and there are still people buying them indicates that either

    The problems experienced with the VE aren’t really that major and only affected a very small % of cars given the total number shown

    It’s like the ANCrAP tests they don’t actually test the safety of the model car; more the safet of 5 individual cars of that particular model

    What I’m saying is that sure Motor Magazine may have experienced problems with an oil leak or brake fade… However that doesn’t necessarily mean it affects each and every other Holden commodore… most logical people would understand this as the chances of it affecting every car made are less than 5%

  • realcars

    Kluger puts out 172kws BUT THATS AT 10,000 RPM!!!!!!!!!!

    His VS is a more relaxing drive because when he needs to go it just goes better doesn’t have to redline before it gets moving. Fuel consumption the old well worn VS is brilliant makes his Kluger look like a guzzler. His words not mine.

    LUKEGT u like most Toyota buyers wouldn’t know if someone was up u unless they coughed.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Realcars why dont you talk him into the new Sportswagon and ditch the Kluger…………….best of both worlds ,performance and space!

  • Tomas79

    Frosty, the purpose of this forum is to discuss varying views (be it positive or negative )a particular car!!
    If you wanna live in a fantasy world, and get hugs a pats on the back from other holden enthusiast, with out being subjected to cold hard truth. Go to a Holden only forum!!

  • Bavarian Missile

    hahaha…..10,000 rpm……….

    Oh and Dingo if you think Holden only have 2 cars that we can be passionate about thats 2 more than Toyota make!

  • Tomas79

    Bavarian Missile, WTF have i got to do with this story??
    Please Stop hijacking every post you come across!! Keep on subject, or dont bother!!

  • http://www.caradvice.com.au/ alborz

    Stay on topic

  • realcars

    Considering the VE was mainly conceived for Australian consumption and by AUSTRALIANS!!!! I think it is a mighty effort for our small populous.

  • senator

    Great looks, lines, proportions, very respectful comments by frosty much appreciated. Hopefully this car and the addition of ve series 2 and DOD will be a winner for 2008.

  • realcars

    I salute the Pisan that designed it!

  • Richo

    this is just bloody stupid, everyone who is bagging this car are bagging it based solely on the fact they don’t like holdens. How do i know this? COS THEY BLOODY THING HASN’T EVEN BEEN RELEASED YET, NONE OF YOU HAVE DRIVEN IT, NONE OF YOU HAVE SEEN THE SALES REPORTS, AND NONE OF YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THE HELL YOUR TALKING ABOUT

    end

  • realcars

    Imo Holden need to dump the low spec 175kw Alloy tech and make the dual variable valve unit standard with 5 speed auto.

    The extra valve timing sounds like it improves torque characteristics being more reminiscient of a traditional Aussie six without the economy penalty of the extra grunt in the past.

    Offer direct injection version for premium models.

    This low down grunt is a key differentiator for most buyers when comparing to high reving Jap etc v6 power plants.

    Commodore is very close to Aurion in the economy stakes considering superior RWD platform and larger heavier,wider,roomier body.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Here here Richo…………although it is out but I doubt any one here has driven it,Im speculating Wheelnut may find his cute butt in the Black Calais Sportswagon thats near him next week .

  • Wheelnut

    The VE Sportwagon has been released – there are now 3 at my local Holden dealer: a Black Calais; a Karma SV6; and a Voodoo SS… Looks great and quite spacious… It’s all it needs is a Premium ICE System [BOSE; Alpine; or Rockford Fosgate]

    All that’s needed to complete the line up is a VE Sandman

  • Bavarian Missile

    dadaaaaaaaaaa……….mention your name and you appear,so what is it my hot new fiance……..Calais or SS ? I prefer the Calais !

  • aw

    There is only one reason why Holden stays in business even though they are producing bad cars. FLEET. Without fleet where would Holden be? Most likely nowhere because that is their main source of sales for the Commodore.
    And btw, anti-spam word was Daewoo, or should it be Holdenwoo?

  • Wheelnut

    If I was going to get a Sportwagon it would definitely be a [Black] Calais – However I still prefer the [Karma] SS Ute as there’s more room to put all my Meguiar’s car detailling gear for work etc..

    Besides you’re getting a New AWD Volvo V-70 T-6 aren’t you? so I don’t think we really need 2 wagons in our 4 car garage

  • Wheelnut

    You don’t think that another reason is because GM have realised that out of all the companies in GM World Holden are the experts at designing and building RWD cars..

    I mean if Holden weren’t that imnportant to GM do you really thing they would have given Holden so much money for research and development of the VE Commodore WM Statesman not to mention the Camaro and the Torana as well as a series of other GM projects some of which have temprarily been put on ice

    Then theres the money to upgrade both the Assembly line at Elizabeth the Engine Factory and the Design Studio in Melbourne.

    That alone indicates that Holdne is going to be around for quite sometime..

  • melbournejester

    All of us Australians should be really proud of this magnificent achievement of our domestic car industry………………………………………………………………………………..aaaaaaaaa, STOP, STOP.
    Bloody USA engined and Chinese sourced parts, put together in Adelaide, and all the profits of any possible sale are syphoned back to the USA.
    Wow, what a waste.
    Give up my citizens, this company is taking you for a ride and not giving anything back, except a dynosaur car, designed for the 1980′s.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Holden have gone in hard with this wagon and after a 2 year wait they have done a brilliant job overall,not just on cost, cause at $37,790 starting price thats $440 cheaper than the out going model,a little shorter than the previous model I think and not quiet as much carrying space for those reps but over all for a family and with its 50/50 weight distribution still it will be a great drivers car with ample room to spare.

    Will Holden sell the expected 700-800 cars a month,well I guess if orders so far are anything to go by their on a winner!

  • Wheelnut

    BTW: according to the guys I know at Holden [Factory] There could possibly be a new Crewman Ute coming out most likely when the VF is released

  • Bavarian Missile

    Yeah I love the Volvo wagon but still annoyed I cant get a manual like I can in the Sportswagon!

  • robbo

    yawn its a wagon

  • Wheelnut

    I know Babe – you’d love a 6 speed Manual Calais-V
    However; the Volvo has those cool booster seats for the kids not to mention AWD which the Holden doesn’t…. yet!

  • AC COBRA

    Thats right Robbo, a wagon with so much hype for nothing and its three years late, it will not help Holden sales, unfortunately this dinosaur will be another extinct species >>>>>>> Adventura anyone…

    Fuel economy not the best either.. need diesel or LPG.

  • Bavarian Missile

    True, with the Volvo being $7000 more than the Calais Sportswagon I must say the Volvos overall finish is far superior to Calais ,then the Volvos finish is superior to most Euro equivalents! Still not taking away from Holdens first real hot wagon though,starting price is great value!

    Ford will be grumbling under their breath Im sure at it!

  • Duck

    “Imo Holden need to dump the low spec 175kw Alloy tech and make the dual variable valve unit standard with 5 speed auto.”

    Realcars, I’m sure you mean the low spec 180kW not the old 175kW found in the VZ.

  • senator

    Holden have stated that they were selling 900 wagons a month in the last full year with the vz, but 90% were fleet, obviously not much apeal to the general public expect more private buyers with the sportwagon, which is holdens aim as it targets the suv market with it’s sleek sport designs. What I’ve heard that holden have plenty of pre orders for the sportwagon. This should be enough to overtake the corolla which is only 1000 units ahead.

    When is series 2 coming out september, october? DOD will be in for sure, what about the direct injected alloytec vf or series 2?

  • Andrew M

    OK,
    im not being biased with what im about to say, so hold on to your hats holden lovers cause it gets better for you at the end.

    Wheelnut,
    when was the release date of the wagon?
    3 week waiting list sounds pretty normal for a newly released vehicle.
    my local ford dealer says ill have to wait around 3 weeks to get me new falcon ute, and prob be a couple of weeks before the have one on the lot for me to even test drive!!!
    and the ute was released just over a month ago???

    Senator,
    you dont know what you are talking about.
    no, thats not nice/correct, i should say half of what you are saying is wrong.

    what is the BF bumper the same as? the BF? well durr
    if you werent blind sided, you would realise the BF doesnt even share the bumper with the BA, whether it be in XT or XR guise.
    rushed the BA series?? well 3 series on the AU doesnt really sound like they rushed in the replacement.
    holden went through 2 models in that time……what were they rushing??

    and then you pick on the AU?? WHY?? because you dont know what you are talking about.
    the AU had better engine, tranny, and suspension over the competing VS/VT.
    it wasnt a total flop.
    the ute sales remained #1 for the entire AU series, and the AU ute sucess propelled its sucess for a decade of #1 sales over the commodore and Hilux ute

    it was also the AU series that really gave the XR range a big boost in terms of its differentiation.
    XR popularity soared during the AU series.

    AU worst interior in modern motoring???
    you guys sure got over the VS pretty quickly didnt you??
    that would easily take the gong if you ask me.
    Falcon seats have always been superior to commodore seats.

    I also recently came across an article in the RACQ Mag that reviewed the AU falcon. they topped it in its class on the 2nd hand motor market.
    they praised the everlasting motor and gearbox combo, aswell as other things.
    they way they summed up the sales crisis with it was, if they had have released the AU series11 as the first AU, things may have been very different for sales

    i cant remember the other biased crap you were saying so ill leave it at that.
    (please hang around for my word on the wagon at the end)

    Richo,
    didnt you also say the commodore is being rated over the falcon by reviewers? (forgive me if it wasnt you)

    the entire 6cyl falcon range trumps over the commodore V6 range hands down.
    so what if in 24 months the commodore would have caught up to the falcon????
    do you think that there wont be a FG series 11? or that fords current development on their 2012 falcon wont improve on the current falcon??

    what im getting at is there is no point insitting there arguing that in 12 months or 24 months this or that will happen.
    so what if holden has dedicated LPG in a couple of years that will have performance on par with petrol???
    i say its 10yrs too late.
    by that time ford will have their new V6 LPG donk which will be sure to offer comparitive performance.

    the best bit you are saying around here is STOP BAGGING A PRODUCT YOU HAVENT DRIVEN.

    and on that……….

    the wagon will sell.
    i know there are certain people who secretly wish holden bad luck, but the reality is there is public demand for this product. they arent that silly to make it if there wasnt.
    the adventura was a different story. the VE wagon is something that has been designed from the ground up.
    the adventra was pretty much slapped together to fill a void in the rapidly growing SUV segment.

    the wagon looks great. the worst thing going for it is that its almost like a 2yr old car being released again.
    it is possible to get bored with the look of great cars.

    that was the problem with the BF falcons.
    sure the XR Range still looks hot as, and easily holds its own in the looks department, BUT it has become too familiar, hence outdated.

    the VE faces a similar problem.
    the familiarity of the VE sedan range will help to make the wagon look dated.

    to cap off,
    the VE wagon looks great, and dont worry , it will sell.
    those that think it wont are the real fools.

    our aussie makes offer great value, and once again, if you question that, you are the real fool.

    wheelnuts comment of champagne taste on a coke budget pretty much sums up what to expect.
    on a value for money the FG and VE are pretty good buying.

    and read the headlines people……..
    the japs are having big quality issues, and only getting worse.
    on the other hand the VE is heading in the right direction when it comes to quality

  • Andrew M

    Senator,
    fair comment,
    the VZ wagon did sell 90% to fleets, but wit holden declaring they dont want to traget fleet anymore (even with the sedan range)
    expect that 90% ratio to swing in favour of the private buyers.

    they now have a wagon that has far more appeal to private buyers.

    just take a look at the special edition VT, VX, VY, VZ wagons that were targeted at private buyers…..
    you know, the SS versions they did……
    they absolutely sold like hotcakes.

    the VE wagon will sell people, and it wont solely be to fleets

  • Duck

    Senator, there will be no DOD on series two of the VE, it will come in the VF in 2010.

  • Austin

    Ah yes, the joys of school holidays by the looks of it.

    I’d say the sportswagon will probably sell to private buyers, but as I’m a company lease vehicle person I would say you won’t see the volume sales of it, I feel GM Holden may have shot themselves in the foot there. I still worry about the suspension setup in the wagons, as the wagons I’ve had much to do with feel a bit washy (BAs and BFs), though I feel that tends to be a trend with falcons (non-XRs). My feeling is I’d still rather a hilux or even maybe a crewman for work, and a sedan maybe a Calais V or an Audi A6 for home.

    Ok people, back to your argument…no I’m sorry Aston’s DBS is nicer then your holdens or your fords or your toyotas…and Audi’s RS4 will wipe the floor with them when the Aston has gone off to have a cup of tea and a biscuit…

  • Duck

    Just having a thought, has the Holden Commodore (in it’s history) ever had the electric window controls on the door?
    Like the Ford Falcon? I don’t think it has, from my knowledge. It’s always been in the centre of the vehicle in front or beside the cup holder’s.

  • Duck

    Andrew M, how much space with the seats up has the Ford BF Falcon have (Wagon)?

  • Wheelnut

    Thanks Andrew M – I’ve finished reading chapter one of your sportwagon novel…. when can i expect the sexond chapter. I agree with everything you said

    BTW the sportwagon has a 3 month waiting list not 3 weeks and it was officially released on July 1st

  • Andrew M

    Duck,
    always in the centre

    nice one from left field by the way

  • Andrew M

    Austin,
    the falcon wagons have leafs under them.
    thats prob why they feel a bit washy to you.

    thats the trade off with carrying weight, and handling.

    you worry about the rear end of the wagon, then you say you would rather have a hilux for work??

    the jap utes are far worse to handle than a wagon with leafs

  • Golfschwein

    gday, Andrew M. You’ve taken breath, at long last. It was a big gasp, I almost mistook you for someone else!

  • Wheelnut

    Duck – ever since the VN Commodore the switchgear fro the electric windows has been located in the centre console next to the handbrake.

    Why – well by locating as many controls as you can in a neutral position there is no need for Holden to have special door inserts for both LHD and RHD cars which they would have to had the controls been on the armrests

    You can understand it given that Holden now exports cars to the USA and Middle East… its much simpler

    The other possible reason would be the electronic impulses etc could interfere with the sensors which trigger the side impact and curtain airbags which could result in premature-detanation

  • Bavarian Missile

    Premature-detonation………..I think they have a spray that can fix that problem now!hahaha

  • Andrew M

    Duck,
    the falcon Wagons capacity is 1260L with the seats up (and like 2600 odd with seats down)

    and further to your earlier comment,
    ford use to have the power windows in the centre too

  • Andrew M

    hey golfie,
    yeah it was a bit long winded hey? ha ha ha ha
    i didnt realise it was that long till i got off. (thats what she said)

    sorry, wont happen again, im all caught up on the goss now

  • Bavarian Missile

    hahaha……………….not another night of bragging !

  • Wheelnut

    Austin you’re not a Toyota fan are you by any chance?
    I mean the fact that you are comapring a $40;000 Wagon to a sports car that costs at least 6 times as much gives me the idea that you are one of those who also loves comparing apples with oranges..

    I love Aston Martins too [So does BM] but I would never mention them in the same sentence as a Holden Commodore or HSV [vice versa]

  • Wheelnut

    Thanks Andrew M – I’ve finished reading chapter one of your sportwagon novel…. when can i expect the second chapter. I agree with everything you said

    BTW the sportwagon has a 3 month waiting list not 3 weeks and it was officially released on July 1st

  • Bavarian Missile

    Andrew your the only one in our bunch I dont know what you look like but your giving hints ! How do I get that image out of my mind??????????? hahaha

    Back on topic !

    Why are we interested in where the window controls are Duck ?

  • Andrew M

    Wheelnut,
    but versatile panels for export and side airbags werent a problem with the VN series.

    i think it just simplifies the production.

    for starters there is 2 less buttons, and the wiring doesnt need to stretch as far.
    And how come side airbags dont detonate on other makes due to electronics on the door?
    the window winding motor is in the door no matter where the switch is.

    ford use to have them in the centre too. on the door is far more practical.
    same with cruise control.
    on the wheel is also far more practical.

    but i suppose its better than the switch gear being on the “Flaw”

  • Andrew M

    Glad you liked the novel wheelnut.
    my next edition comes with DOD so it doesnt chew up more internet space than it needs to ha ha ha ha.

    sorry, i thought you said 3 “Weeks” somewhere

    BM,
    does wheelnut know that i am the one constantly on your mind?? ha ha ha ha ha
    hey who’s bragging????
    Not I………
    but the MRS does ha ha ha ha ha

  • Wheelnut

    Andrew – Im not saying that airbags actually do detonate after reacting to impulses from switchgear located on the doors -no such instances have yet been reported/recorded

    but given all the high tech wizardry in cars these days is increasing theres always the potential for wires to get crossed and somrthing like that to happen

    What I don’t understand is with all the high tech computers etc in cars these days why is it that they are unable to produce a headlight/brakelight indicator that lasts longer than 6 months – why are they always the first things to go even on cars over $80k

  • Bavarian Missile

    hahaha……………Im just inquisitive Andrew well looks like your MRS {hate that word}have something in common ,then again that depends on how LONG you can stay there……..they don’t make nasal spray for the reverse yet do they, not that I’m complaining ?

  • Andrew M

    wheelnut,
    they are caller LED’s.

    depends what cars you are talking about.

    i have never done a headlight or tail light.

    some commodores are bad for it due to the electrical gremlins they have.

    i remember when my mate had his VS ute, the LHS tail was blowing every month.
    he went to his holden dealer and they said it was a common problem with them, and said the only way around it was to buy their bulb that was 10 times the price and lasted 12 months. (still worked out cheaper though)

    what about the electrical things near the front airbags???
    they have been in mix for ages there

  • Frosty

    Tomas79, I suggest you and some others hede your own advice next time a Ford article comes up and Holden supporters critisize the Friggin Ghastly (FG) Falcon. If I witness it again I will paste your comment onto a post.

    The Sportwagon will attract more than just Sedan drivers, as has been said it will attract people who may have bee looking at a AWD such as Territory aand Kruger.
    With a model to suit most average budgets it will sell well no doubt especially the SS, SSV, SV6 and Calais V which are basically new to the Family wagon market. I did not add the Calais as it replaced the Berlina and the Berlina replaced the Acclaim in specs.

  • Golfschwein

    “Ask us about our special nasal delivery system”

    That’s a real quote from a local radio ad that always gets me howling…

    Nasal delivery system? I mean, do you really want it up there, Baby?

  • Bavarian Missile

    Hes gone for the moment Andrew and just sent me an email to ask if I needed a picture to be reminded,he’ll be back soon………..

  • Duck

    So the VT-VZ Commodore wagon had more space then then the falcon wagon AU-BF? The VZ had 1402L with seats up and the BF has 1260L with seats up.

    I thought it would be about even. But the Commodore has 142L more space with seats up. It’s not that much more really.

    (Off topic) The one thing that is really, really sad about the commodore (sedan) is that it should have split fold down seats in the sedan like the falcon. The falcon sedan has more practicallity when it comes to the sedan. The commodore only has the centre seat pull down thingy to access the rear.

  • senator

    Sorry andrew i will take my bias comments back, when i was reffering to the bf i was comparing it to the fg ofcourse, the xt fronts are very similiar, check out the bf xt wagon front on the ford web next to the fg xt very similiar for a complete new car.

    anyways the car has done well. esppeially the xr6t (should win nxt months bang for buck taking away the ss two year rein, ss might of had a chance with the DOD, still quick 5.4), but the typhoon is not quick as i thought as it has been tested about a few times in reviews achieving 5.1 as opposed to the R8 LS3 also 5.1 but quicker of the line. The big suprise was the auto senator achiveing 5.08 not far off the claimed time of the auto at 5.05 and for the man 4.96. But the typhoon has more torque at 565nm but when holden change to the 6l90 autobox, which is in the cts-v as opposed to the 6l80 which is capped at 550nm, we should expect 580-590nm and 330kw (or maybe 327 as hsv like the number “7″). We should expect times sub 5 secs.

  • Frosty

    Andrew its a 3 month waiting list. I know that for a fact as I have had one on order since the Motor Show and I have a pickup date of the 12th of August.

  • Bavarian Missile

    I know Golfy thats what made me think of it………..and how do I reply to that question hahaha.

  • peter brown

    I am just looking forward to getting my hands on my SS ordered at the motor show

  • Frosty

    Duck, the Commodore has always had the front power window switches in the centre console as well as the fuel take opening on the drivers side which is much better on those busy days at the servo as mostly the the tanks with a left hand fuel tank opening have massive lines.

  • Wheelnut

    In general the fuel filler door is on the opposite side of the car to what your exhaust pipe is.. If your car has dual exhausts [such as an SS COmmodore] it’s taken form the base model [Omega].. I think its actually covered by a specific Australian Design Regulation.. as is the rule that the exhaust pipes must exit after the rear passenger opening

  • Wheelnut

    Its a particularly smart move by Holden given that as fuel prices start to increse beyond $2 a litre it won’t be long before the Large 4×4 market [Landcruisers Prados etc] shrinks faster than an Eskimos Apendage.. as will [I expect] Toytas overall lead given that a fair % of their sales are made up of commercial vehicles and 4x4s.

  • Wheelnut

    The 6L90 autobox is one of the many changes expected in the VE2 upgrade whcih is due just in time for christmas

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    This car will do unreal me thinks – based on amount of people on here in such a short time it sure has lots of the publics attention! Who cares what car maker one supports……………. it looks nice side on and also at rear. The only downside is………. its another Commodore front look grafted onto a different body!

  • Wheelnut

    Duck from what I;ve heard the VE2 Sedan could have a similar rear seat arrangement to the Sportwagon that being so the seats fold down 40/20/40

    I’d like to see them introduce a system similar to the Mazda 6 where the seats can fold down by pulling a lever in the boot which would then save you having to drop whatever it is you are carrying/wanting to load; walk around open the doors and put the seats down manually

  • realcars

    Good onya Peter Brown!!!!

    Another EXCELLENT reason not to buy anything with a Toyota badge on it!!!!!

    Toyota is the soylent green of the automotive world. Urrrghhh!!!

  • crazychook

    Well I have driven the wagon (all model variants). I have to say it handles brillantly. My personal favourites are the SS-V and the Calais V, but with my budget I could only afford the Omega. A bit boring inside, but compared to the model still offers what I need inside a wagon (space). Just wish Holden upgrade the trans on this model!

  • senator

    Frosty what model are you getting and colour?

    You are a ford fan primarily?

    Do you like the ve or the sportwagon in particular?

  • Bavarian Missile

    Hey NM where you been……………..you’ve missed the fun babe? Andrews off doing a 1/4 mile time to compare against Wheelnut…….hahaha

    So far he needs another 2.5 hours on tonights time! Just like the wagon its very impressive and satisfying!

  • o

    i wonder how holden will market this.I can see 4 possibiities.
    1.1 guy driving a V8 model turns around and his family are in the car.
    2.A lifestyle type car.
    3.That old territory add whrer all the woman had there landcruisers for the school run then theres the woman in the territory.
    4.Just a plain add about the loading and so.

  • Bavarian Missile

    mmmmmmmm,my school run is full of X5s…………if I saw this in the car park I knew they had class!

  • Frosty

    Hi Senator, I have ordered a Kharma Calais V 6.0ltr Auto. I chose the Auto only because I have Rheumatoid Arthritis in the knees and left hand. Looking forward to picking it up. Previously to my 4wd I had a VT II Berlina Wagon which was brilliant but I have no doubt for the extra $20,000 aprox I am forking out over what I paid for the Berlina brand new in 2000 it would be $20,000 more brilliant. DVD will keep the teenage kids happy. Just over a moth to go. yipeeeeeee

  • Frosty

    Senator, just waiting for my response to your question to be moderated. Do not know why as its just a direct response.

  • Duck

    I hope so Wheelnut! There’ve got to make the car better every time! Remember? ;) :)

  • Duck

    ^Holden that is!

  • http://integra Car 1

    As Commodore sales continue to drop locally and the Americans are moving away from gas guzzling V8′s Holden will be in alot of trouble. Holden is the biggest loser in local sales over the last 12 months and when the exports dry up, which they make stuff all profit from anyway, they will end up not as GM Holden but GM Daewoo Australia. This wagon wont do anything to rectify the massive sales downturn it will just steal VE sedan sales because it is just a sedan with a little bit bigger boot anyway. It still has the very outdated cheap plastic dash and poor interior ergonomics of the sedan. What about those huge A pillars !!!!!

  • senator

    Very nice, I remeber that colour at the melbourne international motor show for the claias-v, looked very nice, and turned alot of heads.

  • senator

    The clais-v use real aluminium across the clais-v (genuine pressed metal not plastic) dashboard just like caprice senator and grange. Frosty you going enjoy the flat blade rain sensing wipers and the 8 way and memory seast will be handy. I love the new wheels on the clais too.

    But if I was you frosty i would wait for series 2 DOD and maybe a extra 5 or 10kw and other few changes and most likly the reverse camera the only feature missing, but it does have front sensors. Anyway i think your be able to get the reverse camera fitted later on.

  • Wheelnut

    Karma hey frosty? nice. That’s the colour I’ve chosen for my VE SS-V Ute. It was either that or Voodoo.. I mean nearly every ute you see is Atomic. Besides I believe in Karma [as does BM]

  • Wheelnut

    Car 1 Ther are a number of automotive industry “experts” who believe that as the situation in the US continues to worsen and Americans turn away from big inferior quality SUVs etc there is the possibility of GM ceasing production of all cars in the USA all together and simply import cars instead cars which will be built in Canada Europe and Australia where the GM subsidiaries such as Opel and Holden..

    The fact that Holden is so heavily involved in the design research and development of so many other GM projects shows just how important to GM . Plus the fact that GM is allowing the Holden Commodore to be sold on thier Turf…. Unlike Ford.

  • Wheelnut

    It looks a lot better than the Camry/Aurion Wagon…. Oh wait a minute – There isn’t one!

  • Wheelnut

    Car 1 keep it in perspective – it’s a 40K Holden wagon not a $100K AMG or BMW Tourer…. besides there are a number of imported cars that cost twice as much which have the same cheap plastic dash and poor egonomic interiors etc.

    As I said before there are so many people with champagne tastes on coca-cola budgets.

  • Duck

    Senator, Holden has said there will be no DOD on any of the VE series II range (if there will be one). It will be out in the new VF in 2010.

  • Duck

    Yeah……..good point Wheelnut, why dont Toyota make a Camry Wagon again (it will look bland again if they make one) or a Aurion wagon?

    hehehehe………HHHHHHAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’ve had a very, very funny thought! Imagine if Toyoda made an Aurion Ute! Now that would be WEIRD! :)

  • Wheelnut

    Ah yeah Duck; but remember that when they started the design process of the VE they also said that they wouldn’t be building a wagon…. and look what happened.

    The Wagon wasn’t really an original part of the project

    Its the same as what happened with the Monaro [Commo-2-dore] Mike Simcoe knew the VE lent itself to a Coupe but it wasn;t an officially sanctioned project that was until after the positive public reaction when the car which was built after hours was unveiled at the Sydney Motor Show

    There were a few sketches of a VT Coupe on the Design Studio computers but none were presented to Holden management and the same aplpies to the VE wagon.

    It wasn’t until initial demand for the VE Sedan and WM Statesman had settled doewn that work started on creating the wagon but it was never in the original proposal

  • AC COBRA

    I can understand holden fans getting excited, a new holden has emerged, but come on lets be honest its only a little red lion novelty, after a few months you will forget or realise this is just a friggen extended VE, now if it was a new Torana I could understand but this tired old Holden is not a breakthrough like some die hards are making out, should appeal more to fleets, maybe steal some of Ford wagon sales but that is all she wrote..

  • Golfschwein

    Come on AC COBRA, share the joy, man!

    It’s a new Aussie car (says he with a Golf, ahem) that’ll export our manufacturing and design expertise and that’ll reignite interest in Aussie wagons on the home front. Go easy on my hypocrisy.

    If it has a new front end and diesel motor in 2010, Golf better be on his best behaviour.

  • GM HOLDEN DAEWOO MEANS MORE TO AMERICA AND KOREA

    Holden?
    The company’s barely Holdin’
    Dealers now lucky to have Sold ‘One
    Punters said “we Told ‘em”
    Not long now till they’ll be Foldin’
    And the Roads will finally be Golden
    With the extinction of the ubiquitous Bogan
    Adioss CRAPPA-DUNNY-DORE : RIP

    Now that is funny lol hehehehehehehehehahahhahahahahaha..

    hmmmmmmmm, these wagons r crap and waste of space, GET REAL FOR A CHANGE holden, there will be a recall for this wait and c, make a smaller car to gain back some respect, please no more petrol guzzling dinosaurs..

  • senator

    duck im pretty sure holden stated the dod will come later on this year even a ve holden commercial states it “launch a v8 that can drop 4 cylinders”.

  • Wheelnut

    Petrol Guzzling? the low-tech V6 in the Holden uses less than a litre per 100km than the more-high tech [supposedly F1 inspired] V6 in the Aurion – Base Models
    Aurion V6: 9.9L Holden V6: 10.9L

    which is insignificant really… if it was 5 litres more different thing.

  • Wheelnut

    As I said before Normal Wagons such as these will gradually become more popular again as the Large 4×4 Market starts to shrink faster than an Eskimose Apendage once fuel prices reach over $2-3 a litre

    Then if/when the Federal Govt reduces/abolishes the excise [as its illegal to tax a tax] – they will need to find a way to recover the lost income… the most likely solution is a tax similar to Londons Congeastion tax which again will hit 4×4 owners harder.

    Maybe that’s what Dingo is scared of…. afterall the two most popular 4x4s in Australia ATM are the Landcruiser and the Prado both of which [not only compete against one another but] come from Toyota – and 4x4s make up a considerably large % of Toytas sales figures.

    Therefore; when the 4×4 market does shrink [just as it is in the USA and Europe] so to will Toyotas dominance not to mention their overall market lead.

  • Duck

    ^And petrol prices will get to $8.00/ 1 litre in 10 years to come.

  • Wheelnut

    Holden ARE going to build a new; smaller car….

    A couple of months ago GM CEO Bob Lutz visited Holden to see how they were going with the new “compact” car – which obviously means that its one of the projects Holden are working on with GM that haven’t been put on ice.. [along with the Camaro]

    It will be the same size as the Torana TT-36 concept car [but won't look the same] and is expected to be released by 2010-12

    It will be sold in the USA as the new Pontiac G6 and maybe even Europe/UK. Although; whether or not its sold here as the Torana and sits below the Commodore or it replaces the Commodore yet retains the Commodore name hasn’t been determined as yet.

    Either way its expected to feature the next generation V6 engines with a [300Kw+] twin-turbo option.
    It will most likely be built on the same platform as the New Opel Insignia which is able to be made as either a RWD AWD and [dare I say it] FWD.

    As I said before I doubt Holden will be “foldin” any time soon giiven that GM just spent $billion$ not ony upgrading the Assembly Line [which they are looking to expand - possibly to make the Totana] but also the Engine Factory and the Design Studio.

  • Wheelnut

    Quote [Duck]: And petrol prices will get to $8.00/ 1 litre in 10 years to come.

    Which could explain why GM/Holden; Ford and a number of other companies are fast-tracking work on alternative fuel sources… the more favoured option at the moment being Hydrogen – apparently its more cost-effective and more environmentally friendly as the only bi-product is water vapour

  • Wheelnut

    AC Cobra Expect the Torana to be released by 2010-12… However; there is doubt as to whether or not it will be called the Torrana and be sold as a seppearte model which sits below the Commodore

    Or if it replaces the commodore; making the commodore more of a “compact” yet retains the Commodore name.

    It all depends on whether or not Holden imports the new Insignia

    In other News: The [ugly] GM have said that the Cadillac won’t be sold in Europe or the UK. Let’s hope they make the same decision for Australia…. the Engines are okay but not the Car itself

  • Golfschwein

    That’s a really lovely pome a few posts back. Whoever you are, jealousy has spurred you to lofty heights.

  • Frosty

    Hi Senator. I already have a reverse camera for it. I got one for Christmas which I was going to put on the 4wd but decided to hold off installing it till I got my next car. Regarding DOD etc, I plan to trade in my second car for a VF when it comes out and no doubt it will have all that but I will probably purchase the VM Monteri 3ltr V6 turbo diesel. I have already had some hints give to me from my cousins Husband who works there about some things expected in fact pretty much rubber stamped yes by the time the VE replacement arrives.

  • Frosty

    G’day Wheelnut, yeah I knew after seeing the Karma at the MMS that I wanted it. I was considering the ute a while back but need the extra seats. I have heard that the Crewman may be making a return as soon as a VF update due to some talk coming from the U.S of A. Not a definate yet but more likely yes than no at this stage. That would make the cops here happy also to replace the VZ Crewmans they are still using for Divvy Vans. Lots of big positive things coming Holdens way very soon so the current Korean stop gap cars risk will soon pay huge benefits with 2009 looking good with new models of the Astra and Viva coming with both being based on the Astra Platform with huge imput from both Australia and Europe. Same goes for Barina and Epica so those anti GM Idiots going on about about Daewoo will and I enthesize WILL be eating their words very soon when they see the quality of the new products and how they will really give Toyota a run for their money. Now wait for those Anti GM idiots to Abuse and Critisize me but as they say He who laughs last laughs longest.

  • Wheelnut

    You’re right Frosty a New crewamn is in the horizon – as Holden were the ones who designed and built the Mid Size GMC Denali Crew-Cab Pick Up [Bit bigger than a Rodeo]
    which made an appearance earlier this year at the Chicago Motor Show.. Its Due out when the VF arrives towards the end of next year and will be followed [a couple of months later] by the new Torana [Commodore?]

    Im still holden out for a new VE/VF Sandman… If Holden aren’t going to make one they should look at the Chevy HHR. It would be the perfect way to complete the VE range

  • Wheelnut

    All i can say is that those who abuse criticise don’t even support the Australian Automotive Industry or dont agree with the fovt giving them money etc will be sorry when the economy starts to slow and further job losses occur in other non-related industries.. if/when such a major industry like the auto industry disappears

    It could get to the point where they find themselves out of a job.. or find that they are paying much higher taxes inorder to support the hundreds of thousands of people who have become reliant on centrelink.

    It’s as if they think well I don’t work in the Auto industry so if/when it disappears I will still have a job. Which shows you just how narrow-minded people can be.

  • Frosty

    Exactly right Wheelnut, they just dont realise the consequences to many more people and not just those who build the cars. That is why I think that Ford are not doing Ford Oz if they make a final decision not to export their Oz built RWD Platform. Aus have been building them continuously through the decades and as such have kept the RWD Platform up with the times technology wise. If ot for Australia only those on big budgets would be able to afford the few Euro RWD’s available. To those who don’t want a Oz industry do us a favour and become migrants to another country. We dont need you. To the Toy mota fans that includes you because despite what you say Holden and Ford have bee in Australia longer and if not for them we would not have a car manufacturing industry here. Remember Toy mota have only been here since the mid 60′s. Well after Holdem and Ford built the first of the modern day car. Must remember to think before I type so I will criticise myself for my spelling error in my previous post.

    Sportwagon is just the beginning of the future of how much GMH have a big future in Australia and as such as Dave Hughes became famous for this phrase “Holden means a great deal to Australia” with jobs, industry and money into our economy through the exports bringing in more jobs.

  • Frosty

    Argh!!!! again a reply I have written this time to Wheelnut is awaiting moderation. I don’t know why replies are getting this yet many other responses are not.

  • Duck

    So the Commodore series after the VF will be called the VM Holden Commodore? OK.

    In 2014?

  • Duck

    A new Holden Commodore Crewman would be great!

    I hope that the new one does not have upright seats like the older VY-VZ generations did. And a bit more space in the rear.

  • Wheelnut

    Yeah Duck as its the next letter which hasn’t yet been used to designate a particular [V series] Commodore

    VG – [was used for the ute based on the VN]; then there was
    VH; VK; VL… so the next one is VM.

    After that they will probably change the prefix all together as VN VP VQ VR VS VT VU VX VY VZ have all been used [apparently VW can't be used for legal reasons = VW]
    and I doubt any one would admit to having VD

  • Duck

    Wheelnut, so if Holden does make a small car in Australia, does that mean it’s the first time Holden has made a small car?

    Holden had small car’s in the past but weren’t made by them usually rebadged from companies from within GM or deals with other car companies not with the GM family.

    -Like the Holden Nova (A Toyota Corolla)
    -Holden Barina (A Suzuki Swift and later on was from Opel, the Corsa)
    -Holden Cruz (A Suzuki Ingnia something or other)
    -Holden Viva (A Daewoo Lacetti)
    -Holden Apollo (A Toyota Camry)

    etc, etc…………..

  • Wheelnut

    Duck; as a rough guide as to what the VF Crewman could look like; have a look for some pics of the GMC Denali [Concept] then add a few more extra curves and flared guards as well as a front which looks similar to the TT-36 Torana.. then you’d be pretty close

    As The Denali was designed by the same blokes who designed the VE; Peter Hughes and Richard Fellazzo.

  • Wheelnut

    Duck; back in 70-72; the LC-LJ Toranas were considered to be a small car – as it sat below the Kingswood.

    1972 was when Peter Brock won Bathurst [Solo] and there were quite a few Ford Drivers in their GTs; that couldn’t believe they were beaten by such a SMALL car.

    So No its not the first small car to be built by Holden

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    The thing also dont like of Commodore is in front of wheels on bottom of front bumper bar……its way too pointy and not really gelled together well.

    As for the front end……………….its way tooooo much and on toooooooo many Commodore deratives!

  • Andrew M

    My Theory on the future of holden……..

    the Torana concept will replace the commodore as we know it.
    it will still be called the commodore though. if they changed the name (like they were considering a few years back) holden would die.

    have a look at what name changes have done to the sales of ford and nissans small cars the Laser and Pulsar.
    even though they moved to much better vehicles, the name change left consumers scared.
    the big winner out of all that was the corolla, because Holden started mocking around with daewoos, hence leaving the corolla pretty much the only familiar one in the group.

    Back on track………
    exports will stop from Holden Australia when the commodore “replacement” comes online. they are losing big dollars playing the export game from australia.
    if you ask me, the current export deal in place is only to test the waters.

    the commodore replacement will still be built here, BUT the ones that would normally be destined for a boat, will find them selves being manufactured out of a more worth while location where they can sell in the economic climate they are making them in.
    lets face it, sure it may sound well and good that holden is exporting, and sure it may make holden fans feel all tingly, but the reality is exporting from OZ is never going to turn GM dollars.
    also Holden would never be able to keep with the demand to supply once a global platform comes online.
    and than on top of that again, if holden could keep up, they wouldnt be able to close US factories due to job responsibilities to the community etc, in the same way holden wont go full imports into australia

  • Andrew M

    Senator,
    fair enough mate.
    just to go further though, the BF and BF11 bumpers arent even the same.
    have you checked out an FG in the flesh?
    when you see them side by side, it is easy to see they are totally different cars.

    first time i saw one at my local dealer, i was straight away convinced they were easily differentiated from the outgoing FG

  • Bavarian Missile

    Hallo boys……….a quiet night it seems NM.

    Frosty you normally get moderated if there are rude words in your post,scan the post again to see if you’ve used a word that could be banned,cut and paste your moderated post on to a new post {changing any sensitive words you see}and submit, your first moderated post will get deleted.

  • Starky

    It won’t sell to anyone but current Holden owners. Holden can market it as sporty, but lets be frank – the Commodore is already marketed as sporty and its sales are down ~25% on last year. SUV buyers aren’t looking for anything that Holden is marketing – Australians simply aren’t into performance or handling anymore. Now, as a result of fuel prices, Australians are forced note that generally ^Performance = ^Fuel Economy. And in Holden’s case it rings true.
    Across the internet generally the only people who are registering interest are Holden owners – its the simply case of new model fever. And, if all that your appealing to is current owners who will buy it the minute it comes out, sales begin to dry up in 1-2 years, ala VE.
    Holden should really be pushing it’s small car credentials, or seeing it doesn’t have any anymore, with sales diving in that region too; import decent Vauxhalls. Of the Big Three, Holden is bleeding sales the most and it is here and in medium cars (Epica getting ~30 sales a month) that it’s happening the most. A combination of diversification of the model mix and a move away from marketing off heritage will create a Holden that is new, fresh, and most importantly different the ones buyers parents bought.
    Ford was the first to notice that perhaps marketing off what it was created a sort of old smell, and now with a steady model mix with appealing cars across every single segment has sales beginning to rise. Holden on the other hand has the slightly egotistical position of seeing itself still loved by Australia (“Australias most loved car” apparently). But now it too is starting to see that not everyone remembers the ’48 Holden. It even has to run gawky ads reminding people of how awesome it was with stupid voices and old photos reminiscing the past. Perhaps rather than telling the buyers what to buy it should, like other manufacturers, adapt.

  • Bavarian Missile

    Starky………quote”Australian s simply aren’t into performance or handling anymore”

    Um wat? Remember this, there will always be performance drivers,manufactures will eventually over the next decade slowly release economical performance cars into the market place to replace the not so economical models but that has nothing to do with the Sportswagon,Holden developed it to take people away from SUVs the biggest petrol guzzlers of all in most cases I can see a big market here in Australia and overseas if it makes it into the Euro market.Why do some Australians want to see other Australian Company’s do poorly ? We need as many manufactures in this country we can cause the next thing you’ll be complaining about is how Australia makes nothing anymore! If you don’t get behind our own product how do you expect other countries too?

  • Frosty

    Duck VM is from the name of the company supplying the V6 turbo diesel. The one I mention is not a model designation.

  • Frosty

    Hi Bavarian Missile, no rude words in my post unless they think that the last 3 letters of your other half constitutes a rude word. ralmfao. Checked and re checked. Ayway they can go through all my posts with not one with a rude word.

  • Frosty

    Starky, the Commodore sales are down because for 6 months they have not had a wagon which averages 900 sales a month going on the last 12 months or so on the VZ model. A 3 month waiting list will ensure the Commodore’s sales will jump massively and we will see if it can overtake the Corolla after giving it a 6 month head start but its ot a massive lead so I think the Commodore can still overtake the Corolla before the years end with sales to date and will be the number one seller for the month when it gets a full month in on the market.

  • silky

    It will sell just like it did before, that market is still there, maybe it will sell more, maybe it will sell less, time will tell.

    Sure The VE will overtake the corolla, but they are different markets, so does it really matter?

    Holden need this wagon, starky is right, barina, viva, epica and astra are struggling.

    But as the base model still come with that drivetrain Holden knows who their biggest buyer will be, fleets…and thats okay, dont get carried away, its a station wagon, its business as usual.

  • Wheelnut

    I’m with you Andrew M – Holden will release a smaller more compact car similar in size and possibly design to the TT-36 Concept… However I don’t think it will be called the Torana either; Hoolden will most likely continue on with the Commodore name – or they caold call it the Rection [Hey BM]

    As for Exports – I think exports to the US will stop and GM will start making LHD versions of the Commodore and Statesman etc in Canada [not the USA] which will leave Holden free to build RHD versions of other cars from GM such as the Camaro/Monaro; HH-R or Opel GT.. However They could still export RHD Commodores to the UK

  • Wheelnut

    Starky – wait to see what happens when the Large 4×4 market starts to shrink as fuel hits $3 a litre.
    You will see more and more people off loading their toorak tractors and trying to get into a more practical fuel efficient load carrier like the Sportwagon..

    An article in NRMA stated most people who own a 4×4 didn’t buy it because it was the most suitable car for their needs – they bought it because of the [poseur] image it conveys and they are really bad/dangerous drivers

    However; they will have a slight problem that as there will be less and less people wanting to buy a 4×4 they won’t be able to sell itr for anything near what they paid for it even if its less than a year old. infact they’d be lucky to get half of its insured value on a trade in

    The other thing is that as a reasonable % of Toyota’s sales are made up of 4x4s don’t be surprised if their market lead shrinks too.

  • TP

    I think Aus will slowly start turning into the poms in terms of car choice, Due to the various taxes over there they generally have smaller cars…even for families. And just look at new vehicles, something like a Lancer can easily fit a family of 4… there is no need for a guzzling Falcon or Commodore unless your towing something large behind it (but i dont see heaps as a % with tow bars)

  • Wheelnut

    Quote [TP] there is no need for a guzzling Falcon or Commodore:

    Don’t forget the Aurion TP.

  • Richo

    Wheelnet – toyota just like putting the words ‘gas guzzling” infront of the words commodore and falcon, nicely overlooking the fact that australia’s second favorite family car is SUV’s which use considerably more petrol then a commodore and falcon.

    Also TP, i actually own a current model lancer and even though i love it, it really is too small for a family, hence why it’s just our “run around” car. Want to pack up and drive somewhere for a holiday? forget about it your not getting enough luggage for 2 adults and 2 kids for a week in the lancers boot!

  • Wheelnut

    If GM starts to build LHD Commodores Statesmenas and Toranas in Canada; as i expect they will.. that will free up space at Holden to not only build the “Torana” but possibly even increase thie range and build some of the cars from Europe such as the Opel GT

    Particularly as GM are working towards a series of more flexible platforms on which a whole range of various cars can be based – an example of which is the one the VE is built on as well as the one the new Insignia is built on

  • http://integra Car 1

    TP….guzzling Falcon? In the real world an FG gets better fuel economy than a Camry or an Aurion (same car different badge) A very large number of Falcons have towbars, so get your facts right. Not much point putting a towbar on a CAMRY|AURION………front wheel drive does not mix with towing much….especially Toyotas very very outdated front drive system………

    Load up an Aurion with 2 kids and a boot full of luggage like alot of families do and see how good it drives then.
    They stuggle on hills with a bit of weight in the rear thats for sure.

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Gotta agree with u Car 1…..thats the word in street on economy with Aurion!

  • Wheelnut

    That’s it!

    Put all that weight – all the luggage etc a 4 person family would take on a 2 week holiday; in the boot of an Aurion [or any other FWD car for that matter] then add the extra weight of a caravan or boat trailer and you will gradually lift the Front Wheels off the road [if not completely] which will reduce the amount of drive not to mention level of control you have.

    The only good thing I guess is that it will however; reduce the likeihood of torque steer

  • http://. Naughtyius Maximus

    Yep sighted few Aurion / Camry’s in tow mode. The game has changed……….towing is an option!

  • Andrew M

    agree with most….
    TP,
    just because a car has 5 seats, doesnt mean it can cope as well as a larger car with 5 seats.

    yes, legally a lancer can carry as many people as a falcon or commodore,
    but it comes down to how effortlessly one does it, and how comfortable its occupants are whilst it is doing it.

    no way will i trade the space, power, safety and comfort of a large car to save 2LMax/100k

    its like home brand baked beans or ice cream.
    sure you might be happy buying your home brand baked beans, but wouldnt you rather have beans that arent crunchy and have a non watery sauce?
    or ice cream that doesnt taste like plastic?

    sure both labels may suggest they will serve you in the same way, but one should stop buying stuff considering it as “just an item” rather than having something to enjoy and appreciate

  • crazychook

    TP
    What do you do if you have a family of 5. What European car are you going to drive? Not a Astra! A BMW or Merc are out of the price range (though it would be nice to have one). Australia’s population demographics has changed and we are getting older there is no need for a family vehicle. We turned into a nation of pensioners, driving small cheap to buy and run cars. Those fortunate older folk who have looked after themselves finacially have bought a suv to tow a caravan and tour Australia! Of course this vehicle will appeal to those who have a large family, or need the storage space and don’t want to buy a SUV. Remember a SUV has larger on going costs, petrol,tyres,servicing.

  • Highplains68

    “The only difference being the addition of alloy wheels for the base model Omega”.

    No Omega has had alloys standard since the upgrade in March when curtain airbags and a few other things also became mandatory.

  • Duck

    ^6 airbags standard on Omega with Alloys, new grill and proper colour coded door handles.

  • Duck

    Does that mean the Commodore get’s 5 stars in the ANCrAP? Or still 4? Due because ANCrAP only tests the main and base seller, the omega.

    And correct me if wrong but doesn’t the new FG Falcon has an ANCrAP rating of 4 stars? (Source: Wheels.)

  • Paul Maric

    Duck:

    Holden would need a re-test to achieve a possible 5 stars.

    No, the old Falcon was 4-stars. In fact, the BA Falcon (2002 model) achieved 27.27/37, while the 2006 VE Commodore achieved 27.45/37, despite the fact it comes standard with ESP and is 4 years newer than the Falcon.

    The FG Falcon is yet to be tested, but if previous results are anything to go by, it should trump the Commodore in ANCAP testing.

  • Sean66

    Well so many words but not much about the Sportswagon. Ive been waiting 5 months for mine and cant wait to take possession of my SS in Atomic green. I have owned a Ford Escort (my first dream car), Toyota Seca Twin Cam, Nissan Patrol and soon a Holden. So as you can see I am not a Holden or Ford fan.

    At my age I am looking for a car that looks good, has a bit of grunt and perhaps turn a few heads. I dont have a family so a family wagon is not what Im looking for. I wanted this car to carry me, my fishing gear, perhaps my dog and a friend.

    Instead of bagging Holden/Ford/Toyota etc, let those who will be spending the money to buy the Sportswagon decide if the car is really any good. If its anything like a SSV I got to drive then Im in for a bloody good time. Fingers crossed, no speeding tickets. Thanks for the ramble.

  • Wheelnut

    However due to a loophole which still exists inANCrAps Guidelines – If Holden provided 5 cars to do the test and the 5th one failed they could provide more cars until it passed the 5th test

    I still believe the insurance companies should buy the cars as they are the main ones who refer to the results – oh and Dingo TP and his crue

    So instead of testing the overall safety of a particular model ANCrAP actually test the safety of an individual car of that particular model.

    Not only that they dont allow for any external or variable factors such as road or weather conditions as well as driver input etc

    Therefore if the ANCrAP 5 star safety rating is important to you you are almostr a bigger dummy as the ones ANCrAp use

  • Duck

    ^Totally agree Wheelnut! ;)

  • BK

    Im still waitin for the VD comodore
    Thats gonna be a pisser.

  • Fred

    The high-output V6 and 5-speed auto should trickle down to lower Commodores and bin the ancient 4-speed and low-performing engine. Ford may also come up with a sporty wagon and right now it’s creaming the Holden big-time on pace (well, until the one with the Z06 engine comes out).

    It’s also a shame the rear lamps seem to have come straight out of the ute.

  • Andrew M

    holden wagon and ute tail lights have always been the same (pretty much)

  • Al Juraj

    …which only shows how much cost-cutting Holden’s undergoing through the years. It’s pretty obvious anyway, since Holden is the only ‘carmaker’ I know that doesn’t make its own cars.

  • Wheelnut

    Quote [Al Juraj] since Holden is the only ‘carmaker’ I know that doesn’t make its own cars.

    Then can you please explain to me what that massive white building on the Phillip Highway in Elizabeth South Australia is ?

    The one which is full of the latest robots etc [which cost almost half of the VEs billion dollar budget] and has a constant stream of both RHD and LHD Commodore Sedans Utes Wagons and Statesmans coming out of it [on average 1 every minute]

    I mean if they’re a car maker thats not building their own cars than what the hell are they doing in there…. making bread?

  • Al Juraj

    By that I mean Holden have not conceptualised any car on their own. The Commodore yes, it’s built here but its parts are pretty much imported. The engines are of US design and made in Mexico. Some panels even come from Korea and China. To add to that, you can’t even order a door straight away for a previous model VZ, which poses as an Australian car!

    Also, Aurions are assembled here just like your beloved VE, but would you say these Toyotas are Aussie?

  • FORDS R DISGRACEFUL

    AL JURAJ WHERE do you think 95% of ford parts come from.
    yes overseas my friend so pull your head in

  • Jesso

    Children, children, children *tsk*

  • Wheelnut

    Well given that the VE was designed in Australia from scratch

    GM wanted Holden to continue using an existing platform for the VE – that of the Sigma from Pontiac; yet Holden designers and engineers decided it wasn’t suitable for Australia and set about designing an Australian car from scratch.
    They prepared a business case for Detroit and were given the go ahead. Now the Zeta platform on which the VE is built is being used in many other GM cars including Pontiac

    Whereas the Aurion is a Face-lifted Camry from the USA
    If Toyota are the biggest selling manufacturer in Oz not to mention the richest in the world [not the biggest] then surely Toyota Oz could have put forward a similar case to Tokyo for an all new car designed and built or as you like to say “conceptualised” in Australia – hell then they might have been able to make the Aurion RWD and therefore more of a direct rival to the Commodore

    So even though approx 25-30% of the components in a VE Commodore are from Overseas in “esscence” it is still more Australian than the Toyota

    Either way its good to see two locally built cars getting attention from all around the world

  • Duck

    Al Juraj, please name me some parts of the where holden gets parts made in Korea and China for the Commodore?

    Please I’m sure Holden where thinking of getting pannels and parts from China for the Commodore but they ditched that idea, hey Wheelnut?

  • Wheelnut

    FYI Al Juraj – The platform; the 1/4 panels; the doors; the roof; hood and boot; even those huge one piece side panels for the ute and the tailgate for the sportwagon are made in Australia using Australian steel by a company called Hirotec located in Elizabeth about 5-10 minutes drive away from the Holden Factory

    They send a B-Double Truck full of panels for every model in the VE range and the WM Statesman to the Holden factory every 30-45 minutes.

  • Wheelnut

    Quote [Starky July 12th] Australians simply aren’t into performance or handling anymore.

    Then how do you explain the fact that 90 people have already made out cheques for a HSV VE W427 at a cost of $155000? I mean that’s $13;950;000 whats more there are still another 337 to be built over the next couple of years and people are already placing orders for them even though there could be a 6 month+ wait….

    Whilst there are still over 300odd TRD Aurions sitting around Toyota Dealerships and Storage yards.

    BTW: There is also a number of people pushing for Holden to put the Coupe 60 into production

  • Bret

    Wheelnut,
    You mean “semi-trailer” load NOT “B-double”.

    And lets not forget to mention that they don’t always go back empty either, just that the “rack” on the trucks go round and round the circuit all day, fully loaded or not.

    And BTW if you know any of the drivers, the cops are going to be watching the way they shortcut the roundabouts.

  • Phill

    But its also a wagon with the word “sport” in front of it.That bit of marketing from Holden is just as bad as Fords finger ads

  • Graeme

    Sportswagon?

    Must be a weightlifter, or discus thrower or a wrestler; hold on no its a sumo wrestler.

    It’s too heavy and out of step for a car in 2008 – it shouldn’t be larger than a Vectra or the sample Torana seen at a motor show a few years ago.

    Come on General Motors you are responsible for the mess Holden is in right now. Can’t you gets some good parts from Isuzu, Subaru, Saab, Opel and yes Holden and make a range of cars that suit Australian conditions.

    Lower fuel consumption; diesel motors; good 4 cyl motor from Japan; 6 speed autos and manuals across the range; sedans, hatches and wagons.

    Some local councils require cars to gain at least a four star fuel rating to be a part of the fleet.

    It’s a pity Toyota don’t make them; perhaps we would have cars that looks good and run efficiently too.

  • Sean66

    Well finally taken possesion of my SS 6sp manual Sportwagon. Im HAPPY with it…not too many kilometers driven yet but looking forward to spending more time behind the wheel.

    All thats been written about the ‘A’ pillars and poor visibility out of the rear window is true but its easily overcome by adjusting the mirrors and being more attentive when driving. LOVE IT!

  • Bogan Aussie

    I had to utilise a big car allowance ($20K per annum) which means about a $100K car over six years with a previous company trade in. I looked at the Beamer 5 series entry level at $92K on road, which is a 2 litre stinky little 4 cyl diesel 125 kw which takes 10 secs to get to 100ks. With a $25,000 devaluation in the first year I then looked at holden. I bought an SSV brnd new in July. All leather interior, Sat Nav, six stack, voodoo blue. It has better features than the beamer and does 100ks in 5 secs.It left me $45K over so I bought the wife a new mazda 6. The SSV looks awesome compared to the beamer AND I can service it myself with genuine Holden parts for $60. BMW? Forget it. And I DID see an new SSV Sportswagon on the road yesterday. it looks as awesome as my sedan.

  • http://www.earlyholden.com.au 179HOLDEN

    i have had a sv6 sportwagon now since they were released. my wife drives it 80% of the time and we have had no problems with it. its now done approx 9000km.
    my complaints would be the bucket seats have no support for going to quick into corners. the steering wheel is to large and i get sore palms if i hold the wheel at the 10-2 postion, if i hold it at 9-3 its not to bad.
    for a large car fuel economy is not to bad around town at 11 litres per 100 average and on the highway it gets depending on speed low 8′s to 9.

  • http://gmail Roberts

    I have a 2005 VZ sedan thats done 225,000kms and have had no problems with it, however my sister in law has a new Omega Sportswagon company car and has had heaps of trouble with it after doing 30,000 kms. She had the preivious VZ executive wagon before and it was sold after hitting a huge 350,000kms with no problems (it was just 3 yrs old). She has also said that the space is horrbile as well as the blind spots compared to her VZ wagon and would prefer to drive a 350,000kms VZ executive before jumping happily into the new sportswagon. I have to purchase a wagon myself, in order to care for my grandmother, but I am definately going to look for a VZ executive wagon before even going into Holden to purchase a new sportswagon.

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