Toyota downplays plug-in hybrid benefits
June 12, 2008 by Alborz Fallah
While we are happy to admit that hybrids are not all they are cracked up to be, we have been patiently waiting for plug-in hybrids to save the day. But a top Toyota technology expert has today urged buyers to temper expectations for what plug-in hybrid vehicles can do.
The idea of a plug-in hybrid is such that it would be more practical than a traditional gasoline-electric hybrid. It can be recharged from electrical outlets and operate significantly longer on electric-only power than standard hybrids. Theoretically, plug-in hybrids can all but eliminate the need for weekly trips to the petrol station. Or can they?
Toyota’s Bill Reinert admitted today that in the real-world, plug-in hybrids could suffer and have their electric-power-only range reduced dramatically.
“When we see the (claims of) 100 mile-per-gallon (42 km-per-litre) stuff, not everybody’s going to get 100 miles per gallon,” Reinert said.
Even so, if plug-in hybrids can manage 60-80km a day on one electric charge alone, it would accommodate the majority of drivers that simply drive to and from work and reduce the fuel bill substantially.
Of course, we heard all these great numbers and ideas about hybrid cars too, and many consumers have been disappointed by the real-world fuel consumption figures of regular hybrids.
The battle is now on to see who can bring a working mass-produced plug-in hybrid to the market first. So far General Motors is planning to have the plug-in hybrid Chevrolet Volt by 2010 while arch rival, Toyota, is expected to have it’s plug-in Prius out by around the same time.
Print it: 
Toyota and electrical appliances what synergies!Ha Ha Ha
“Ouch” that’s gotta hurt
Geeeeee………….look at the guy he’s not happy! His not smiling!
Smile mate, SMILE! :)
Don’t work for Toyota then they make you sad! hehehehehe! :)
The look on this guys face was straight after he was asked to justify the 35 million dollar tax payers grant!!!
Not only uglier than a regular car but also have the indignity of a power cord painted on the door!
Ouch!!! Wammm Kapowwww!!!
The picture is a filed photo and is not related to the article as such.
Makes sense. They will just downsize the fuel tanks to get through an average weeks commute. For reducing weight of course.
and to make sure that you continue buy your ciggies and twisties at convenience prices on a weekly basis.
they talk about Ford’s new Falcon reciving too much attention, how about this Hybrid dribble, It’s like they have just discovered something new..
SORRY BUT LPG AND DIESEL ARE BETTER OPTIONS, PEOPLE DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE HANDING OVER HARD EARNT CASH FOR GOLF CARTS, BATTERY POWER IS A PROPER JOKE
Looking at the cost of electricity these days how much is the old bill gunna be charging that thing up every day. Other questions you don’t see too much is what is the life of the batteries and how much to replace them.
When you add all that up how much do you really save???
TuffGuy: The cost of replacing a battery pack is expected to be around US$2,000 in 3 years time. The number of Priuses that have had their battery replaced stands at 0.03%. There are some Prius taxis in NY that have gone well past the expected life of 150,000 miles (240,000 km) and have even topped 200,000 miles (320,000 km). I’d say that if you had to spend US$2,000 after you have saved $8,000 in fuel costs is pretty good. Not to mention the reduction of CO2 output over that time as well.
Pirus Taxi I’d like to see that!
What is the source of your info Supercujo?
Realcars, Prius taxi’s are every where in Canada and the US, though are a pain the ass since you can barely fit your luggage in them.
Realcars … there is an increasing number of Prius taxi’s getting around and i am surprised you have not seen them because i certainly do on a regular basis.
The Prius was just ranked No.1 in the recently released 2008 JD Powers UK Quality / Customer Satisfaction survey beating over 100 other models.
It was reported that customers are particularly pleased with the quality and reliability of the Prius.
And yes … the Prius is known to travel inexcess of 300 000km with little or no attention bar regular / sceduled servicing.
Tuffguy
For an average electric drive car (today) you need about 10-15kwh of power to travel 100km. I’m not sure what offpeak power costs these days in Oz but I’m tipping its easily less than $0.15/kwh. (can someone confirm?)
even at this rate you will get 100km motoring for $1.0 -$2.0. Equivalent economy for a petrol car would be about 1.0 litre/100km (at todays petrol prices)
As I have said earlier – battery prices and lifespan are the still the main issue at present – but that will be solved.
I’ve seen at least one Prius taxi in Sydney!
I suggest like most Toyota info your mileage and reliability claims are mainly anecdotal. I know Toyota drivers that claim high mileage and no expenditure as expenditure comes under “regular servicing” which in reality does involve major and minor rebuilding of components despite your claims to the contrary.
JD powers I don’t place much credence in this survey either as most people that buy Toyota have that “Oh what a feeling” mindset drilled into them through slick media relations from birth.
I owned an 80 series twin cam Landcruiser and traded it with 100,000klms and reco power steering pump and reco cv seals on the front axle came under the regular servicing banner.
Like all development, hybrid technology will only get better – more power, less consumption, greater life and so forth.
Diesel is good but it is also getting considerably more expense then petrol and will continue to do so as demand increases.
Also, have people considered the cost of repairing modern diesel engines because take my word for it … is can be painfully expensive especially anything to do with the injection system because of the mega pressures involved.
Haven’t seen one in Sydney yet and I get around. Not saying there isn’t.
All modern cars become expensive with age and use. Toyota is no exception in this regard.
Mate had a single port EA with 500,000klms on it from 1988 when he bought it new. Replaced an alternator, one head gasket, front ball joints,front rotors twice and one muffler and resonator.
Friend with a Hiace replaced similar things less the head gasket plus auto trans with 350,000klms so far.
Toyota is nothing special in this regard.
Were is your source to support your above comment.
No matter wether Quality / Customer Satisfaction Surveys are conducted in the UK, USA or Australia – Toyota consistantly ranks amoung the best … says it all really !!
Passing comment is easy but wether it is even remotely connected to reality is often a very different story and in this case, i bet you cannot supply a supporting referance to your cliam which will then mean it is nothing more then just utter rot !!
Toyota’s consistant and longterm strong standing in various and multiple Quality / Customer Satisfaction surveys throughout the world proves otherwise.
Far out guys. Stop ratting on Toyota, its getting boring.
Yes, boring cars. Yes, Prius sucks and all. But without it and without the Civic hybrid, we’d still be 10 years away from hybrids. I think its very good that Toyota actually started selling the prius to the mass market, albeit at a high price. It encouraged other manufacturers to also do research and catch up. In the end the consumer and environment are the winners.
Plus the camry hybrid will not have a high price premium at all. And performance to rival a V6 engine if i’m not mistaken.
This is nothing more than a brand-building exercise. Another marketing master-stroke from Toyleta. It’s what they do best.
Toyoda are masters at deceiving the public, Hybrid head hunters, hey what about thier V8 premium petrol powered landcruisers, the government will say big heavy SUV’s are environmentally friendly too, Brumby would jump for joy if they had batteries “bluddy idiot”.
News flash – Hybrids accounted for 3% of all new car sales in the US in March, a 10% increase on the previous period.
Ford GT40 – you’re in denial mate. Debating their virtues (or lack of) is pointless. Yes even the Landcruiser will have a hybrid option within 2 years. Actually makes a lot more sense than a corolla class if you think about it. Better low revs torque, can handle the extra weight of batteries, higher starting fuel consumption….
My words speak louder Marketmaker, only a handful people enjoy digesting Toyleta dribble > Dingo dribble > this is what he types day in day out > News flash – Hybrids accounted for 3% of all new car sales in the US in March, a 10% increase on the previous period.
Repeated brainwashed stat talk makes me think a very shelted childhood is seeping out..
As I said earlier, Diesel is a temporary measure, give 2 years and it’ll be expensive as ever,
LPG is a good alternative I agree, Hybrid -> full alternative is still early on the lifecycle, and as Jez pointed out its only going to get better and will lead to an alternative source which will outperform typical combustion engines.
Its good Toyota did their so called ‘marketing’ to get people onto the Hybrid scene, it makes other manufacturers get of they lazy asses and try to compete in the alternative market which will lead to innovations quicker.
Why is it called a hybrid?
If it only uses an electric engine then it’s no longer a hybrid.
Def^ “a composite of mixed origin”.
I don’t get why everyone is calling a car that has engines that run on a single type of fuel a hybrid.
FordGT – you are right … there is no stopping the Prius just like there is no stopping Toyota.
Oh What A Feeling … !!
Realcars, I see you were asked for proof of your story. It happened to a mate of yours. Please ask your mate to identify himself, provide 100 points of ID check, photographs of the unreliable Toyota concerned, with registration plates clearly visible, and photocopies of the repair bills that clearly cross-reference to the the registration number of the unreliable Toyota referred to in your comment.
Only then will we be happy that you speak the truth. Believe us, we will be happy!
Toyota have as much to worry about as ford, gm, etc
The real threat will come from China, Korea, India in relation to plug in hybrids. For those of you who think the Chinese don’t have the pedigree to make a decent car … all I can say is they are mighty good at copying, have little regard for patents, and have already demonstrated an ability to do the impossible in building process plants, manufacturing facilities etc to a near world class standard for a fraction of the cost and time.
By 2010 I reckon they will have a commercially available sports car capable of sub 4 second 0-100 and it will be a plug in hybrid or straight electric car.
I guess I wasn’t being obvious enough, eh Golfschwein.
I just find it funny how when someone complains of their personal Toyota experience, it is labelled heresy and they must be lying.
So Realcars, you really must prove your statement when you said “I owned an 80 series twin cam Landcruiser and traded it with 100,000klms and reco power steering pump and reco cv seals on the front axle came under the regular servicing banner.”
Stay on topic please.
Alborz – were is the TRD Hilux story ??
Also, you mentioned about 3 weeks ago you might look into a Australian Rally Championship (ARC) article … how is that going.
Better still, the next round is down your way in SE Queensland on the weekend of 22-23 June with Toyota, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Ford, VW and Honda all competing.
Might be a worth-while visit to watch and then report on a good, competitive weekend of Australian Rally Racing … !!
Let me know what your thoughts are.
cheers
Golf I never said Toyotas are unreliable just that they wear like most other modern vehicles. My examples take them or leave them I don’t care. Just sick of hearing how Toyotas never breakdown and last forever. They don’t.
The guy that owns the Hiace regularly dumps on Korean cars by the way. 350,000klms out of an auto gearbox is pretty good I thought!
Toyotas need things replaced/repaired like any other vehicle that is all I am saying!!!
Just want to balance out this Toyota rhetoric that they are the most reliable vehicle ever.
In relation to the JD Powers survey I would expect the type of people that buy a Hybrid to rate it well or as the ants pants as long as it performs it’s basic functions satisfactorily.
The cv seals is part of the 100,000klm Cruiser service (live front axle) and is expensive.Power steering pump just unlucky I guess.
Lurch certainly seems excited by it in the photo.
The thick power cord pictured looks like it would be rated for a very heavy load.
Looks more than 10amps one phase.
To recharge a passenger vehicle is likely to require a lot more than plugging in an ordinary domestic appliance or charging the forklift.
After puchasing the vehicle the electricians might be busy upgrading wiring not just to the garage but to the whole property.$$$
Does anyone have an answer?
Infrastructure is the big question hanging over the alternatives.
Toyota are going to revert back to steam power,using the hot air from there marketing department to heat the water.
Alec – when Ford revert to steam power they will made redundant because thir market department completely suck generating nothing but cold, freezing air.
A bit like thier sales – cold !!
Toyota are also going to make a methane powered prius,that runs on its own smell
In the short term hybrids are not the answer as they are way too short term as pollution will still be caused! And in an increasing world population, that means more drivers and pollution will still occur and a nominal slower rate then now!
Hydrogen is the answer………..”Hydrogen, being a fuel that burns cleanly, it can directly address polluting emissions.”
“When you burn hydrogen you produce only water, so there is no CO2 produced, so no impact on greenhouse gas emissions.” (HYBRIDS STILL WILL PRODUCE CO2 EMISSIONS AND ARE STILL RELIANT ON PETROL AND/OR ELECTRICITY).
Seems to me all people are blinded by this fact thinking it is the answer…….ts only a stepping stone to next level (e.g. full electric or hydrogen)!
plus……not to mention the costly exercise of battery replacement on a very periodic basis and manufacture which is simply not that green at all!
GT40,An interesting point on the Landcruiser but what is interesting is that in every category of car Toyota vehicles are most fuel economic.
Have we bought a hybrid white elephant?
Retiring Labor senator George Campbell has taken a parting shot at the Rudd Government’s decision to provide Toyota with $35 million to build a Camry hybrid in Australia.
The former boss of the manufacturing workers union says the Government could be buying “a pig in a poke” with the Camry deal. In other words, Kevin Rudd has signed the deal in a hurry without really understanding what he’s getting.
“What disturbs me about it is that it seems to me we’re buying old technology,” he has told the The Sydney Morning Herald.
He has a point. The Camry hybrid we’ll get is based on the same technology as the current Prius, which is essentially almost a decade old. By 2010, both General Motors and Toyota are aiming to have much more efficient plug-in hybrids based on the latest battery technology.
So why has the Government been so keen to secure the deal? And why is it giving the world’s most profitable car company a $35 million hand-out when the company itself says it was going to bring the hybrid Camry to Australia anyway?
Add to that the fact that all the components for the hybrid drivetrain in the Camry will be imported from Japan, and the net worth to Australia of the deal begins to become a little dubious.
Senator Campbell suggests the generosity may be tied in with local manufacturing jobs more than genuine environmental concerns.
Toyota has been very vocal about the fact that its Australian manufacturing operation, including its export business, is looking less attractive to head office because of the high labour costs and the strength of the Australian dollar.
Senior management says the local operation’s biggest threat isn’t Holden and Ford, but other Toyota plants around the world. The company now has Camry plants in seven countries around the globe, including China, Russia and Thailand.
Was Mr Rudd’s decision more about keeping Camry production in Australia and less about delivering a greener future for Australian motorists?
After all, 10,000 hybrid Camrys, some of which are likely to substitute for Priuses, are hardly going to put much of a dent in our automotive industry’s global footprint, given that Australians buy one million new cars every year.
So do you think Senator Campbell’s on the money or is the Camry deal an important step towards a greener future for the Australian car industry?
Richard Blackburn
Posted on June 23, 2008 4:24 PM
thats right AC, with our strengthening labour and dollar, all sorts of manufacturing (where it can be done anywhere in the world) seems to be not so feasible when it can be done cheaper anywhere else in the world.
Just remember, Toyota and any car manufacturer is a faceless corporation driven by owners to perform, Theres no loyalty unless it pays.