Toyota may build Prius at GM plant
31 May, 2008
164 Comments 
Toyota is reported to be in talks with General Motors in the US about a plan to build the hybrid Prius at a joint production facility in California.
According to reports in Tokyo published by the respected Tokyo Shimbun newspaper the unlikely bedfellows could strike a deal to build the Prius for the first time outside Japan and China.
The Tokyo Shimbun said, without naming sources, that if the two companies reached an agreement, it would be the first time that the Prius, the world’s first mass-produced petrol-electric hybrid vehicle, was made in the United States.
Toyota may produce Prius cars at New United Motor Manufacturing Inc. (NUMMI), a venture established by the two groups in 1984 that currently makes the Toyota Corolla, Tacoma and Matrix plus the Pontiac Vibe, it said.
The Japanese company plans to ship key components from Japan and assemble them at the venture in Fremont, Calif., where demand for environmentally friendly cars is high, the newspaper said.
A Toyota spokesman in Tokyo declined to comment on the report, saying: “As usual, we don’t comment on the details of negotiations, but nothing has been decided yet on the reported NUMMI case.”
Toyota aims to sell at least 1 million hybrid vehicles a year from about 2010.It currently produces the Prius in Japan and China.
The carmaker said this month sales of the Prius had topped one million vehicles since the launch in Japan in 1997, followed by North America, Europe and elsewhere in 2000.
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May 31st, 2008 at 7:37 pm
all hell is about the break lose - right here, right now……..
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May 31st, 2008 at 8:13 pm
What the hell Toyota working with GM! I must be dreaming! This cant be happening! Whats next………………..Ford Falcons being built at holden plant at fisherman’s bend? Yiikkkesss!
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May 31st, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Dingo might say “ooooooch” mmmm.
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May 31st, 2008 at 8:26 pm
Its like “oooooooooooooooocchhhh” to Dingo now what is he going to say. Its GM helping Toyota and he goes on about how much better Toyota is then GM so lets see how he comments.
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May 31st, 2008 at 8:41 pm
What’s next…Camrys and Corollas sold as Holdens??
Oh wait…
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May 31st, 2008 at 8:59 pm
already done roddy…. already done…
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May 31st, 2008 at 9:08 pm
You heard it from me first this morning on other thread stories…..CARADVICE caught up!
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May 31st, 2008 at 9:20 pm
I was actually thinking……why build it at all?
One is born every minute……….
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May 31st, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Duck: The Holden Factory [which they are planning to expand] is at Elizabeth here in SA not Fishermens Bend.. The Holden Engine Plant is in Fishermens bend whilst their State of the Art Design Syudio is in Port Melbourne - Right Next To there HO
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May 31st, 2008 at 10:09 pm
And have seen glimpses of next Prius and not much more cuter then this FUGLY shyte! Maybe some of the GM brains can make it look better as Toyota simply have lost soul as none of there cars ooze sweetness!
OH WHAT A FEELING….GM!
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May 31st, 2008 at 10:21 pm
The Prius is dorky looking. Can they try and make it look normal no matter where they build it?
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May 31st, 2008 at 10:35 pm
Must be toyota taking advantage of the low american dollar to set up the production the prius. they probably had it planned for years but lately the low american dollar has just made it just that little more enticing. I mean to buy an ipod in america is $100 cheaper than buying it here… how much are we being ripped off??? on everything… i dont see anything dropping in price yet our dollar is expected to be worth more than the US.
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June 1st, 2008 at 2:16 am
Yep remember the Toyota lexcen and Holden apollos lol,
Meh, looks like the aim for this joint venture is both come out as winners.
I wouldnt be suprised even if Ford was at teh negotiation table either, im guessing at some level all car companies are in kahootz one way or another likewise the Oil companies that drive them.
NM, yeah agree, somehow the world likes these johnny cabs, its the sign of the times lol.
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June 1st, 2008 at 6:53 am
Oh dear,
The only thing going for Toyota is their build quality.
So if GM are to build the PriArse then it will be poorly engineered, and woefully built.
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June 1st, 2008 at 7:30 am
The Crown Hybrid (smidgeon changed Corolla sedan) is an interesting looking car. Trouble is Toyota’s all look same. Solid and not massive grab one by scruff of neck for style and oomph……yawn. Thats why Celica, MR2 and other stunners have left our shores as too hard to offer that style and oomph and is a different market!
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June 1st, 2008 at 7:36 am
Joober Says:
June 1st, 2008 at 2:16 am
NM, yeah agree, somehow the world likes these johnny cabs, its the sign of the times lol.
NM RESPONSE;
Very accurate description there and yes it rings true. But as for me…..I dont wanna be seen in a johnny cab as they dont make one feel cool and good driving em and I like my drive to be VALIUM free. Thus I like to be seen in a stylish car like a Mazda 6 sedan, Mondeo hatch after seeing few has really grown on me, would go the Hyundai Genesis sedan or hatch, dont mind VE either as looks cool, or the Falcon as have cool colours hey. I like to feel alive and not doped up on VALIUM in my drive!
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June 1st, 2008 at 7:43 am
Oooooch - what are you doing Toyota …. !!!
DON’T F*CK’N DO IT
GM make amoung the poorest quality cars of all so what the f*ck are the HODS at Toyota thinking.
I can not believe what my eyes are reading.
This is a BAD, BAD, BAD day for me … !!
Infact, i think i am about to cry … !!
This is one of the weakest days in my life … !!
Ooooh … GOD - the thought of it … !!
I’m outta here - it is just to much, were’s that rope and ladder … !!
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June 1st, 2008 at 7:54 am
Just curious……short length of rope????? HA HA
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June 1st, 2008 at 7:55 am
Joober - the highest quality Holden ever … the Appollo (Camry) and Nova (Corolla)
The poorest most pathetic Toyota ever … Lexcen (Commodore)
If there was ever a day to kick Dingo in the guts then it would have to be today.
I am have been weakend and sickened by this terrible tragedy.
Were is that bloody rope … i know it’s here somewhere.
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June 1st, 2008 at 7:57 am
Maximus - i beg you .. help me !!
You can even have the pleasure and kick the ladder away, just promise me to make it quick.
Today is a BAD, BAD day.
Damn you Toyota … DAMN YOU ‘YA BASTARDS
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June 1st, 2008 at 8:04 am
Iam not professional enough to help you! You must have past regression therapy and get to source of problem and go from there! Like I said…..a car enthusiast supports “all” cars and therein lies the root of all ya troubles! Key word to tell shrink is “all”…..gotta get that into you!
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June 1st, 2008 at 8:09 am
Can only tell the horse to have water but cant lead em to it!
Its a viscious circle….shrink will say get doc to put you on valium. Then you will be back at start of all ya troubles and then love ya jhonny cabs! Your back exactly to where you orginated from and the source of issues! You may need more help then what I think as the more layers you peel off the deeper it gets!
LMAO!
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June 1st, 2008 at 8:24 am
NM … there is only problem that has decended me to my lows and that is the subject topic - says it all.
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:43 am
To all those people making a big fuss, it’s really no big deal. That plant at NUMMI has ALWAYS been a combined Toyota and GM plant, and it’s been fine from the start. Numerous Toyota and GM vehicles have been produced there, including the Corolla, Tacoma, Matrix, Vibe etc.
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:59 am
thats right JW,
its not a new venture but rather a joint company that has been in operation for some time.
perhaps since the hybrid technology court case went against toyota, they are now looking to partner in GM’s advancements as they are on top rung as well with hybrid tech.
just because GM doesnt go around beating their chest about hybrid tech, dont go thinking they have nothing.
behind the scenes they are up there with the best of them.
and they didnt steal anyone elses documents to get there either ha ha ha ha
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June 1st, 2008 at 10:17 am
Andrew - lets making something crystal here, Toyota is the leading manufactuer for hybrid Technology and GM has alot to more to gain from Toyota then otherwise.
Toyota has been at the top of the game with hybrid development for many years and remain the leaders today.
Blowing wind up GM’s a*se is nothing but just that …
GM has been very slow coming forward with hybrid technology and has even been the most outspoken critic against Toyota for thier advancement in such technology but today, well … the same tech they argued against they now promote rigourously.
Your statement that GM does not beat thier chest is absloute pure rot becuase in the past few months - that exactly what General Motors has been doing.
What i find even more amusing - people like yourself critised Toyota heavily about thier development of hybrid tech but now you seem all to willing to discuss the issue sense so many other manufactuers have decide to join the game.
PATHETIC !!
Really proves Toyota (and Honda) had the right idea long before the rest of the world.
Better still … they have proven most of thier critics WRONG !!
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June 1st, 2008 at 10:19 am
It’s all to do with the low US dollar. Priuses from Japan are too high cost in the US market and the Fremont plant must have some spare capacity.
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June 1st, 2008 at 10:20 am
What exactly do you mean by top rung … !!
As for GM is up thier with the best of them - what possible market prove do you have - let me help you abit … NOTHING !!
Advertsing thier development of Hybrid Tech is one matter but actually employing those advancements to the market is a whole different league and fact is - GM has not been succesful … todate !!
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June 1st, 2008 at 10:32 am
GM have good tech in the pipeline.
if you fail to read outside the toyota box then you are unable to critisize other wise.
GM has been heads down bum up for a while now whilst toyota has been flogging off the same old tech for years.
it was inevitable that someone would catch up.
whether its GM, ford or toyota doing hybrid tech i bag the whole idea.
show me where i have been hypocritical in saying GM’s venture is a worthwhile one………
i reckon that all round hybrid tech is a bit of a wank whether it be toyota, GM or Ford
nothing to amuse you there as i have stuck to my guns on the hybrid debate
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June 1st, 2008 at 11:11 am
Andrew - GM may have tech in the pipeline and about bloody time but fact is, little of it is proven the on the market (yet) and what has been, has only had lustre success.
You state that Toyota has been utilising the same old tech which is complete bullsh*t becuase they have been able to refine and improve on thier process beyond any other current manufactuer as we speak today.
The 3rd generation Prius is due in Feburary 2009 which will not only have greater power (1.8 engine) but improved efficency.
Lithium-ion batteries will not make thier debut in the Prius ‘yet’ as Toyota is convinced more research is required to ensure a safe, effective, reliable and durable cooling process.
They do exhibit the technology but are not completely satisfied at this stage.
That said, Lexus Hybrid Motor vehicles are the best in the world … PERIOD !!
The Prius scoring No.1 in the 2008 UK JD Powers Qual / Customer Sat Survey proves how well they really have been designed and engineered despite thier ho-hum looks.
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June 1st, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Quote: Toyota Supporter - “…. the highest quality Holden ever … the Appollo (Camry) and Nova (Corolla)”
Don’t make me laugh.. If you believe that you are obviously angle parked in a parallel universe
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June 1st, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Honda are about to release a cheaper more high tech more powerful Hybrid with longer lasting lithium Ion battery technology which is also more user friendly than the Prius
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June 1st, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Quote: Andrew M - “…. if you fail to read outside the toyota box then you are unable to critisize other wise.”
EXACTLY - Toyyoda Supporter believes that all the others are inferior to Toyota because that’s all he appears to focus on
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June 1st, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Dingo,
you say toyota is not using the same old tech but technically they are.
you state improved fuel economy as great improvements in hybrid tech, yet ford can improve the efficiency of their entire range of petrol vehicles by up to 8% in one model upgrade.
the improvements made along the way have not been able to be credited to the electric side of things.
in a nut shell the hybrid tech is the same old stuff from 10yrs ago
a fuel injected motor today is still of the same tech as a fuel injected motor of 10 yrs ago even though power and efficiency has improved
define proven on the market…..
why no success? it is on the market isnt it? and it is as good of a system as what toyota offers isnt it?
just because they havent sold 1 million of the hybrid con jobs yet, you say it isnt a successfull system?
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June 1st, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Andrew - hybrid technology is evolving all the time which is no different then petrol and diesel engines.
I agree the fundamentals are the same (no different to the conventional combustion engine which has remained fundamentally the same sense it’s inception how many decades ago) but the technology, refinement and performance of the systems are improving all the time … am i wrong !!
No matter which way you put it, General Motors does not even remotely come close to Toyota (or Honda) in hybrid technology.
How many awards has Toyota / Lexus won with thier hybrid systems … !!
How many awards has GM won with it’s … EXACTLY - Says it all !!
Fact is Andrew, wether you accept it or not doesn’t change reality eitherway - GM is not renouned for it’s Hybrid development although they have certainly been beating thier own chests in recent months.
* The Prius engine won the 2008 World Green Engine Award.
* The Prius ranked No.1 in the 2008 JD Powers Quality / Customer Satisfaction Survey
Apart from GM mentioning themselves, most other organisation don’t even consider them (GM) beyond lustre otherwise.
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June 1st, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Boy Wonder - you stated that becuase i certainly have never stated otherwse. Infact … you show me were i have ever passed such a comment … EXACTLY !!
There are many great companies including Honda, Mazda, Subaru, VW, BMW, Audi, Mercedes Benz to name a few but fact is … General Motors is not one of them. Infact, GM is arguably one of the most awful automotive manufactuers in the world and have been for many, many years.
They are arrogant and produce terrible cars.
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June 1st, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Dingo,
combustion technology has changed over the years in the turning from carby to fuel injection and now on to displacement on demand systems.
that is 3 quick changes in technology to combustion engines.
when hybrids go to lithium batteries and then plug in, i will declare advancements in hybrid tech
so just because someone isnd “renowned” for something, does that mean they are hopeless at it?
going by that theory the aurion is hopeless because toyota isnt renowned for large passenger vehicles.
or because Schumacher is/was renowned for winning in F1, so he would suck in a tin top?
thats a very shallow view of how the world operates going through your head i must say
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June 1st, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Andrew - Lets cut the hoo-haa drible, GM has got nothing on Toyota in referance to hybrid technolgy … PERIOD !!
Fuel injection, displacement on demand and so forth are all technology, refinement, perfromance enhancement on the otherwise combustion engine that remains no different … piston goes up, piston goes down, valve opens, valve closes and so forth.
Lithiun-ion batteries is not gonna change the basic fundamentals of a hybrid either but more rather just greater impovement of the same system.
As for plug-in … well, i guess that is debatable.
I agree, Toyota in Australia has not been renouned for thier large capacity family vehicles but fact is … the Aurion is making a genuine change to that - slowly, but surely !!
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June 1st, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Well I didn’t see this one coming?????
Hmmmm Bland(Toyota) + Questionable Quality(GM) = A bad day for the consumer. Well I guess this is good news for the VW group.
With a hybrid golf on the way and now the Prius is going to be made in a GM factory. If that means you have a 50% chance of getting a poorly made Prius, this will not bode well for Toyota. Their good name will carry them for a while but time will reveal all.
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June 1st, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Toyota Supporter, GM have been looking at Hybrid technology since way before 1997 when Holden brought out a prototype ECommodore based on the VT which came out in 1997 so to think that GM is new to it is just utter Cow Manure. Also GM will have Hybrid technology in Australia within 2 years on the Commodore (Possibly on the VF which is also going to have a slimmer A piller)which is due sometime next year and will possibly be a running change as Holden have done on the VE. plus expect Turbo Diesel V6 to be available as soo as the VF is released. GM are ahead of Toyota in Hybrid technology.
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June 1st, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Jimbo - check out any Quality / Customer Satisfaction survey wether it be in Australia, UK or USA … Toyota remains consistantly strong.
What else can i say … !!
Frosty - passing comment that GM is ahead of Toyota is utter shear and pathetic rot.
GM has had some involvemnt in hybrid technolgy for some time but have never invested considerable resources and / or made a genuine attempt at it until recently … FACT !!
What i find pathetic not just about GM but people like yourselves is that clowns have been having a stab at Toyota for many long years but when companies like GM and so forth begin travelling the same path, all of a sudden it is alot more acceptable.
How WRONG has Toyota proven many critics … ooch !!
GM is not even remotely close to Toyota for hybrid technology and for individuals like yourself to suggest otherwise is a fantastic example of shear and utter ignorance.
You seriusoly live in la, la, land !!
You spruck on about what Holden has planned yet if you believe Toyota Australia is going to remain still then you have got to be kidding yourself.
You talk about a hybrid Commodore … how long has Toyota been selling hybrid vehicles in Australia - let me help you a bit - 10 years longer then Holden.
Yeah - they are really on the ball … NOT !!
Current discussions / negotiations remain ongoing about manufactuering a hybrid Camry to Australia, which co-incidentally has been available in the US for several years with approx 4 000 of those examples sold monthly in recent times.
Let me also remind you of something … Toyota is the company with the resources, expertise and $$$$ to ensure they remain highly competitive - not Holden and that is evident with thier current range of vehicles.
Anybody want a Daewoo - ‘any one’ - go to Holden, they have plenty.
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June 1st, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Oh yeah - for Holden to introduce a Hybrid Commodore, they have to invest the necessary resources to develope it from scratch.
Toyota however, well … they just have to adjust tooling to suit and better still - the hybid Camry will come to our market as an already proven vehicle which is alot more then anyone could suggest about a hybrid Commodore.
So, while Toyota is selling between 40 000 - 50 000 Camry Hybrids annually in the US at present, not a single Commodore hybrid has yet been sold to a customer.
So who exactly is ahead of who …
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June 1st, 2008 at 3:37 pm
wipe your chin dingo, your ToyMotor dribble is dripping on your shirt
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June 1st, 2008 at 3:59 pm
ok so you find it reasonable that toyota is a new commer to the large car market and claim that they are making a change to that in being strong at it,
yet you refuse to entertain the thought of GM doing the very same thing but in entering the hybrid arena
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June 1st, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Sound argument Andrew.M
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June 1st, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Australian Car History for Dummies Drongoes and Dingoes:
As Frosty said Holden built a Fully Functioning Hybrid Concept Car back in 97 based on a [modified] VT called the ECOmmodore. It was done in conjunction with the CSIRO and since then both parties have continued further research development and refinement etc of the Hybrid System so Holden won’t have to start from Scratch..
Frosty s also correct in that the VF Commodore will be the first Australian Built Family Sized Sedan to offer A Diesel; [Possibly] Turbo-Diesel; Direct Injection Twin Turbo V6 and a V8 with DOD
Then if the rumours are correct and The Commodore becomes more Compact [simialr in size to the TT-36] the Commodore could be trhe first Australian Built Family Sized Sedan to offer AWD
Could explain why Holden have plans to expand the factory at Elizabeth.. or that could be to build the Torana
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June 1st, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Thats what I mean Toyota Dude. If you had read my post you would understand that I was saying that this may not bode well for Toyota’s so far good quality track record.
Gee you Toyota fans never understand peoples posts or just read into them what you want too.
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June 1st, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Holden’s got a big future ahead of them (good one at the sound of it) haven’t they Boy Wonder?
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June 1st, 2008 at 6:33 pm
@Boy Wonder
What about the Magna’s that were AWD? Or were they built in Japan? (Im not sure..)
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June 1st, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Boy Wonder … sorry, i must have missed it - were did you mention that the Eco-commodore has been in production … EXACTLY !!
The Camry Hybrid has been in production for several years with an approx 40 - 50 thousand units currently sold annually in the States which calculates to ‘many thousands’ of these cars that are now exposed to everday motoring.
Another way of putting … they are satisfy the greatest test of all - Test Of Time !!
Has the Eco / hybrid Commodore … NO - and it will come to the market with no proven record especially the one that matters most to customers.
Infact … hybrid platforms from Toyota, Lexus and Honda remain the most proven of all. Hybrid technology employed by Ford Motor Company was infact purchased from Toyota Motor Corporation under agreement (what ever that was) while Nissan’a first example - the Ultima, utilises an aged Toyota Hybrid System.
As for future concepts… until Holden actually puts to use any of thier rumoured projects they remain nothing more then just hopeful ideas.
GM has made an art of concepts and ideas in recent times with many not even making to production.
Some next-generation V8’s that GM had planned have been scrapped or put on the back burner becuase of the new CAFE laws. Holden made alot of noise about the Coupe but have admitted that it is highly unlikely to ever go in production while i believe the re-incarnation of the Torana will prove uneventful.
Lets be seriuos for a minute … manufactuering of everyday RWD vehicles such as the Commodore and Falcon is proving economically challenging as the economies continue to tighten so manufactuering a RWD Torona will be unlikely.
The bulk of automotive manufactuers of ‘everyday’ small to medium and even family sized cars these days are FWD because of ‘economies of scale’ and considering GM has been struggling to make a profit and attempting to steamline it’s own production process - i would be absolutely amazed that a RWD Torona will ever make it market.
FWD - much more likely !!
Infact … even Ford Australia has not ruled out the possibility that the Falcon could go FWD in the future.
Until the Torana and many other current ideas of GM / Holden actually make it to production, they remain nothing more then concepts / ideas until otherwise.
Holden has been making alot of noise about alot of things recently because the brand’s presance in Australia has dwindled dramatically in recent years and no-doubt the board is trying hard to keep themselves viable.
While i believe some concepts / ideas from Holden will eventuate, i equally believe many will not.
Another good example albiet is Ford not Holden … you may Ford America recently placed emphasis on Ford Australia to ‘take charge’ of developing RWD platfroms but within weeks withdrawed / watered down the emphasis.
Things are in consent change at the moment for companies like Ford and General Motors as they struggle to re-establish stability and the way i look at it because of thier current position, until witnessed in production - i think little of thier plans otherwise.
Hype is one thing, delivering is another !!
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June 1st, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Ha HA Toyota off loading there heap of crap(Prius) on to some one else lets hope GM are not that dumb.The Prius is the biggest automotive joke of a car played on people with more dollers than sence,ten year old tech that has not been improved(probably because the japanese government didn’t give them more money).All Prius cars forfill the stats required to be a Triple S.Shit go,handling and looks.Its supposed to be a green car,but they have a brown feel to me.I hate the Prius Hate,Hate,Vomit.
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June 1st, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Can everyone, from both sides, give this a rest? Bloody hell!!Im getting sick of all this holden v ford v toyota or toyota v gm v VW v WHO EVER YOU WANT!! Just give this shit a rest!!!!
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June 1st, 2008 at 7:27 pm
haha you go Phill…would have to agree with you on that.
If you read between the lines, (prediction time) Commodore production will likely be moved offshore to either USA or Korea (likely both), as it’s a world car nowadays.
Holden will likely gear up production of the Torana to be initially manufactured locally, with the focus of Holden’s volume to move to the Torana.
I just hope they keep the Torana name.
A modern day HSV A9X with the 6.2L would be awesome.
I’ll be back from fantasy land in a minute…
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June 1st, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Funny how its always Toyota,Prius is not a good car
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June 1st, 2008 at 7:49 pm
The only highway a Prius should be on is that underground aqua highway to the ocean.
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June 1st, 2008 at 7:51 pm
I Think that in a couple of years; about the same time when the RWD TT-36 Torana [which will also become the new Pontiac G6] is released
Holden will make the Commodore more of a compact sized car. Infact I wouldn’t be surprised if they call the TT-36 the Commodore.
The A9-X and SL/R would still be possible from HSV However I don’t think it would have the 6.2 or 7.0 Litre V8 in it not when.. as Ford have shown; a Turbo 6 can produce as much power as a V8..
And if the Torana/Commodore uses the same platform as the new Insignia [as expected] it will be able to be built in FWD RWD and AWD
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June 1st, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Sure, but there’s a huge market in Australia (and USA) for V8’s. I doubt HSV or Holden would forsake that.
I read that HSV currently has a 3 month waiting list?
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June 1st, 2008 at 8:20 pm
The Prius is the love child of a 86 model corolla and a computerised vacuum cleaner.(maybe a Dyson)
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June 1st, 2008 at 8:32 pm
I voted the article 5 stars because I think it is haliarious! GM helping Toyota again………….forget it! Sure both have helped each other in the past but it does not work very well.
-Toyota Camry is used as a Holden and called Apollo
-Toyota Corrola being nameplated as a Holden Nova
-And last a Holden Commodore being namplated as a Toyota lexcen
Pfffffft……….GM if you are listning dont do it and dont listen to Toyota, ditch the idea! Who cares if the Prius goes and becomes extinct! I would not care! Im sure other people woundnt (bar Tp and Dingo and Toyota Dude probaly). Rather buy an diesel Audi A3 Hatchback 1.9 TDi e! (more fuel efficient and better for the environment and its also good german quality)
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June 1st, 2008 at 8:34 pm
JD Powers released thier annual UK Quality & Customer Satisfaction Survey about 2 weeks ago for 2008 and the Prius fended off more then 100 other models to take number 1 spot. This has been the most successful car to revolutionise hybrid transport. Customers were particularly pleased with the quality & reliability of the Prius which sets high standards for any competitor with a new model due in months, so i believe.
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June 1st, 2008 at 8:39 pm
I think what will happen at Holden is.. Holden will expand the factory to add an extra couple of lines and start building the Torana/G6 for both local and overseas markets as they do with the Commodore/G8 etc..
Then a couple of years later GM mayl switch a couple of its plants in North America which are currently operating at less than 70% over to build LHD versions of the Commodore and Torana.
Which will then allow Holden to focus more on RHD cars [including the Camaro/Monaro] or maybe even locally built Opels such as the Astra Corsa etc inorder to make the plant more even flexible and more cost effective.
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June 1st, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Att Duck, how many rolls of toilet paper do you have stuffed under your chin becuase you crap more then a cow on laxetts. People like you are not even amusing, just down right stupid. i’m glad used bog paper like yourself are stuffed down the tiolet so the rest of the world don’t have to endure such rotten sh%t unless it is another one of your brown friends.
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June 1st, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Why did the prius cross the road?Well the driver seen a Pink colored Viva for sale and he know he could get better performance,good fuel economy and people would not think his gay as much
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June 1st, 2008 at 8:47 pm
^Hey! I guess you like the Prius alot! Do ya? ^Hybrid Lover!
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June 1st, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Good one Phill! Thanks mate!
Bye, bye Prius!
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June 1st, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Phill comment I made at June 1st, 2008 at 8:47 pm was not aimed at you it was aimed at Peter J. Wilson
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June 1st, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Peter J. Wilson, please tell me how am I dribbling crap? Im just saying if Toyota and GM should work together again it wont work well and they should not. Sorry, but i hate the prius, is that why you are annoyed?
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:00 pm
I have no problems with this venture. GM can put it together… its the quality of parts and engineering that makes Toyotas reliable, not the smallest part of the whole thing (whacking it together is a highly controlled production line)
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:02 pm
I just asked how many rolls of bog paper you have stuffed under your chin because if it is not enough then i guess there is a mess on the keyboard. I take it your mother will not like that, cleaning up after thier messy sons, especially the ones who have trouble making it to the toilet.
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Don’t do it GM don’t go over to the bland side where everything is a shade of beige!
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:12 pm
Hope that GM don’t let em in cause the Prius looks like a piece of s%#@. I can just relate it to a piece of s%#@. As fo9r Toyota’s other models, na there alryt!
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Peter, sorry but the Prius is not my type of car! I’d rather have a diesel of any sort mate!
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:13 pm
You are right, the venture will not work well. While Toyota is a professional company whom make great cars, GM is trouble and make horrible cars. I question Toyota’s integrity on this unwise decission because all GM will do to Toyota is lower the quality of the Prius from an otherwise quality company. I have not driven a Holden in many years because frankly, they are rubbish and this point of view is being shared by an increasing proportion of the Australian population bar some young idiots who haven’t a clue about good cars and those not so good. People who quote Quality & Customer Satisfaction Surveys are right because if you bother to take the time and read them, you will discover the likes of Toyota and many others wipe thier ar%es with the Holden logo.
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Peter, you are very deffensive to your’e Prius, what do you own one? Or a Toyota?
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Automotive Consumers Of The World “STOP” dont buy a Prius,if you want a small fuel efficient petrol?/electric car buy a better handling,better performing Fiesta,Mazda 2,Polo or anything else along those lines,Then also go and buy an electric toothbush and leave it in the glovebox.Its all good Duck.Peace to you brother
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Wow Peter just cause you drove that one car that one type of car what say 10 years ago and it was crap does not mean it is now.
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Thanks Phill!
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Duck, that is fine because no Holden is my type of car. Atleast Toyota make solid, long lasting cars not rubbish that perish. Any Holden with a bit of age on them are horrible, rattly, squeeky and trashy. These Daewoo things are gonna be a joke in time. I’ll be able to sit around with the blokes and have a good laugh, at Holden.
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Another droid and his satisfaction surveys. Here we go again!!!
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Toyota can sell these idiots anything!!!
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:23 pm
These Toyota addicts are certainly brainwashed!
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:32 pm
TP Says: June 1st, 2008 at 9:00 pm
I have no problems with this venture. GM can put it together… its the quality of parts and engineering that makes Toyotas reliable, not the smallest part of the whole thing (whacking it together is a highly controlled production line)
NM response……Toyota addicts are certainly brainwashed!
Your comment is astonishing! The same person has a problem when Ford has a venture with say Mazda. Fairdinkum…..you really are a work and a unit!
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:35 pm
Maybe we should call you Chairman Rudd as your good at gut feeling and little on execution except polarising people with your own waffle and self importance!
OH WHAT A FEELING….GM!
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Att Duck : i drive cars all the time, i’m telling you, Holden sell rubbish. Ford has got the right idea but not Holden. I own a 2007 3.0 D4D Prado and a 2006 Mazda6 Sport. Enjoy both cars and love both companies. Each of them inspire my confidance in producing a quality, long lasting and reliable vehicle. Have driven many late model Holdens on the job and why i refuse to invest with my own money in rubbish. The engine in the Commodore is a pure joke and yes i have been stuck because of the drained battery not to mention an air conditioner that clapped it followed by a broken door handle. Rodeo is OK but just not a Toyota or even a Nissan. My wives friend has a Viva and kid you not, towed it to Holden by the Prado to discover 24hrs later that the ECU short circuited. No expense, all paid for by Holden by gee wiz, come on, only done 17000km/h atthe time and that hasn’t been the last of your troubles. The last i was told, her husband is now looking at a Honda Civic.
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Peter like i said you havent drove the car (a holden) for a while so why comment about them?
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:37 pm
^Posted this comment at the same time as you so forget about it.
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Att Realcars : yeah but Toyota is not flogging of Daewoo’s. The once most trashed of all is now the most loved by all Holden fans. I hope you are sitting next to Duck and sharing that bog paper. Wash your hands before going to bed. But then again, Holden people are used to sh%t. Been living with it all thier lives.
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:41 pm
^So Toyota is the one that needs help with there Prius at the GM plant.
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:42 pm
What the hell are you on abussive Peter?
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Boy wonder,
a couple of your predictions are wrong.
Mitsubishi has already been the one to plant an AWD family sized sedan on our roads and,
ford is also hot on the falcon with a diesel target. ford actually announced it before holden that a diesel would be found in its falcon.
they both predict that a diesel will land in their large sedan at around the same time.
the only thing i agree with in your statement is that the Torana concept will become the new commodore.
one does have to wonder though how far away that will be, because surely they wouldnt have spent that much money on the current (VE) platform, only to make it redundant a few years down the track. surely they want more than 4 yrs out of their investment???
i also find it highly unlikely that the opel range of vehicles will be made here.
for starters the upcoming range of small GM vehicles are going to be Daewoo derived. they are currently investing in creating the next generation of Daewoos (but dont worry, they will be a hell of a lot better then the current ones)
so they wont be opel derived for starters, and secondly there has been a massive investment in the korean operations to deal with the globalising of their production that is ahead.
the way i see it is that the australian operations will be dedicated to producing/servicing australia and its other main export in the middle east.
they are going to be flat out servicing that market alone, let alone when demand increases even greater in the east.
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:44 pm
oopsy, some mistakes above. Must remember to proof read before posting.
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Im just saying i dont wont GM to help Toyota with its Prius……………….thats all! Geezzzzz……………calm down.
Your the one with the crap on the toilet paper (just cause I dont like the Prius)(Whats your point)!
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Peter, please think before you post! hehehe!
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:46 pm
peter,
show me one holden supporter that is totally behind the daewoo rebadging idea…….
all the holdenites i have heard from are actually embarresed
show me one that is talking them up………
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Attn Peter J Wilson u seem to have a fixation with toilet habits?
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Att Duck : i have proven my point, you are a kid. Who’s annoyed.
HA, HA, HA
Time for this hard working man went to bed instead of blogging with kids.
Take advice young chap, understand your cars and you will discover Holden is not a supplier of good cars.
cheerio omegos
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Then again Peter J Wilson if u drive a Toyota good chance u have taste in your Rs anyway!!Ha Ha Ha.
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June 1st, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Sounds like Peter has gone to the toilet. Enjoy!!!
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June 1st, 2008 at 10:09 pm
My VS Acclaim is neither horrible, rattly, squeeky or trashy thanks very much. It’s long lasting, and very reliable.
I enjoy my car, and I love the company that made it.
My sister had a new (3 years ago) Corolla which was the noisiest and most uncomfortable POS new car I have ever had the misfortune to sit in. After 2 hours on the highway, my first words when climbing out were ‘holy shit’
Toyotas are whitegoods for consumers who don’t care what they drive…i’m surprised Gerry Harvey isn’t selling them 5 years interest free
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June 2nd, 2008 at 12:23 am
It would seem that most people here don’t even bother to read the article. The factory is a joint facility that currently build 3 toyota models and one pontiac model.
The US is also the Prius’ biggest market and with the current weak US dollar why not make it there for the US market? I dont hear anybody else complaining that VW is looking for more US production capacity. Even Fiat and Alfa are considering building cars there!
At the end of the day who gives a s#1T. Don’t want a prius? Buy something else and stop whinging about it!
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June 2nd, 2008 at 8:49 am
Sounds like Peter J Wilso is the real kid going to bed as early as he did. He was probably sprung online by his mum instead of being in bed at 8.30pm like he is suppossed to. I quite often do 4am starts with shiftwork and I am not even in bed that early. I have a sleep after work to make up on lack of sleep.
Regarding the turbo diesel in the Commodore, it is not a recent announcement, it was known last year that the Commodore was Going to get a 3.0ltr VM Montesi Turbo diesel V6. The recent comments were mostly discussing Hybrid while just reafirming the Diesel in the Commodore.
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June 2nd, 2008 at 10:38 am
YEAH HAA … Toyota takes straight wins in all 3 tiers of NASCAR this weekend in Dover … YOU BLOODY BEAUTY !!
Friday - Scott Speed for Red Bull Racing (Toyota Tundra) won the Craftsmans Truck Series. That gives Toyota a total of 4 wins from 7 races this year so far and currently leading of the manufactuers points.
Saturday - Denny Hamlin for Joe Gibbs Racing (Toyota Camry) won the Nationwide Series (2nd Tier) making it 9 wins for Joe Gibbs but a total of 10 wins from 14 races this year so far for Toyota. The BIG T comfortably leading the manufacters points.
Sunday - Kyle Busch for Joe Gibbs Racing (Toyota Camry) won the Sprint Series (1st tier) making that 5 wins from 13 races so far this year while Ford and GM have won 3 each followed by Dodge with 2. Toyota also (albiet narrowly) leading the charge in manufactuers points in the Sprint series giving them a current clean sweep in ‘The NASCAR Series’.
Better still, of the 3 tiers combined - Sprint, Nationwide and Craftsman Trucks - a total of 34 races have been completed so far for the 2008 season with Toyota winning 19 of those races alone. The other 15 wins are shared between Chevy, Ford and Dodge.
OH WHAT A FEELING … TOYOTA !!
Sunday -
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June 2nd, 2008 at 10:49 am
being a control series nascar, where regardless of what manufacturer you use the actual cars are identical, the only difference being the engine, which are built to identical specification anyway, the wins are a credit to the teams, not so much toyota who really only “sponsor” the winning cars.
Unlike F1 on the other hand, where the manufacturer actually makes the cars, how does toyota do in that again? oh right… oh well they did do well in rallying! Pity they abandoned rallying to chase F1, gee what a successful idea that one was!
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June 2nd, 2008 at 10:54 am
Andrew M - not 100% when you say that holden’s next lot of small cars will not be opel derived. Although they will be built in korea by daewoo, and they styling will be done there too, the actual cars themselfs will be built of opel platforms, with opel engines and gearboxes. So you could more or less say that the cars will be built by daewoo, but developed by opel. Not exactly the worst situation in the world because opel develop a good product, and daewoo are good at building cars to a low price, which means the products will be more price competitive in australia thanks to daewoo, whilst still being a good quality product thanks to opel.
Something people have to remember tho is that todays daewoo is very different to the old daewoo. Basically the name is the only thing that is the same, since GM has taken over they are basically an entirely new company
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June 2nd, 2008 at 10:56 am
its a similar situation to skoda really, skoda use to have a name worse then daewoo even in europe, their cars where stupendisly bad, but since VW have taken over, they are now a well respected brand. The tansformation of Daewoo under GM is a near identical situation to skoda’s under VW
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June 2nd, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Richo - you are absolutely and completely WRONG.
Engines, chassis’s and a fair chunk of components are manufactuer designed, engineered and manufactured.
The Toyota’s run a Toyota / TRD USA engine, nestled on a modified 2008 Toyota Camry Chassis with many componets such as cooling systems, fuel tanks, steering and power steering assemblies and so forth all manufactuer related.
At the start of the 2008 season, Joe Gibbs Racing had fuel pick up problems when running near empty and power steering reliability issues which had to be redesigned / fixed by Toyota / TRD USA.
Joe Gibbs Racing has sense passed comment about how pleased they were with regards to Toyota’s / TRD USA’s response nad handling of the matter.
NASCAR is very much Team, Manufactuer and Driver orientated and any thought otherwise is pure rot !!
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June 2nd, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Mate you have no idea about NASCAR. I have followed the sport for alot longer then you have by the sounds of it. NASCAR is team and driver orientated, the manufacturers basically just pay the bills. NASCARS are specially designed space frame chasssis with specially designed body panels. The only thing the manufacturer actually makes is the engines, which are built to extreemly tight regulations and are extensively modified by the teams anyway. Its basicaly only the block and the heads which toyota actually make, the internals are all done by the teams.
Have a close look at the cars and you will see that they don’t even look remotely like the road cars, thats because unlike V8supercar in australia where the cars are heavily (HEAVILY) modified road cars, NASCAR are fully space frame race engineered cars, the manufactuers just sponsor them.
Go do some research on the Car of Tomorrow, you’ll see how the basis of the entire project was to make sure the cars where IDENTICAL accross all teams and all manufactuers.
Sorry fan of toyota motorsport, but you couldn’t be ANY further from the truth with your comments. NASCAR’s bare absolutely no similarities with road cars whatsoever, they are 100% full racecars
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June 2nd, 2008 at 2:54 pm
FI ……..the epitome of Motor racing Championship results in the Championship currently.
01 Ferrari 69
02 McLaren-Mercedes 53
03 BMW Sauber 52
04 Williams-Toyota 15
05 Red Bull-Renault 15
06 Toyota 9
07 Renault 9
08 STR-Ferrari 6
09 Honda 6
10 Force India-Ferrari 0
hahaha…seems Williams can make them better than Toyota…does this mean Toyotas gone next year….I guess so.They said if they had ANOTHER BAD year headquarters would pull the pin!
Back on the Prius thing………TP says
I have no problems with this venture. GM can put it together… its the quality of parts and engineering that makes Toyotas reliable, not the smallest part of the whole thing (whacking it together is a highly controlled production line)
Its the quality of the parts ect not the production line…..pfffttt tell Holden that with them watching Daewoo factories!
Of course the quality control makes a difference at assembly,and obviously Toyota think that GM are up to the job even though Dingo doesn’t think so,then again he doesn’t or isn’t actually Toyota,but he thinks he is!
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June 2nd, 2008 at 2:55 pm
the thought that toyota’s nascar was actually a modified 2008 camry road car.. that is just too funny, not even close, you just lost 100% of your credibility fan of toyota motorsport, you couldn’t be more wrong if you tried!
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June 2nd, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Richo,
i was of the understanding that Daewoo was designing their new breed themselves.
ill have to double check where i found that info from.
either way its the cheap parts and labour that has earnt daewoo the bad reputation, not poor engineering efforts.
you cant honestly tell me that the current barina is any different to the daewoo Matiz of the days when Daewoo traded as their own nameplate.
but in having had a little pay out session, i do feel that the new gen daewoos to come through will be a hell of a lot better. once they have flushed the system of the old “stock/designs” (in search for a better word), i have little doubt that the next gen will be of the same standard as what hyundai has developed.
i have faith that the daewoo venture will eventually produce decent vehicles, but will it be too late before holdens small car reputation is totally ruined?
i mean how long does it take before small holdens are avoided by default regardless of improvements or not?
hhhmmmmmm, ill have to check that though, i thought daewoo was more than just manufacturing the new small car gen.
but hey i respect what you say because you dont commonly spew rubbish like others.
i dont even know where i found that now………….
ha ha ha ha yeah that manufacturers designing chassis’s and the whole kit in nascar was pretty funny.
looks like some one has just jumped on the Nascar bandwagon.
perhaps toyota was claiming they are doing all that on their site or something????
just like they were claiming the targa rally lead, and claiming the prius to be more enviro friendly…..
both of those claims they had to retract remember???
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June 2nd, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Richo - WRONG !!
i strongly suggest you to recap your details because you obviously exhibit limited knolewdge about the sport.
Engines, chassis’s (not shell) and many components such as cooling, steering racks / pump assemblies and so forth are manufactuer specific bar several items of course.
Racing packages are manufactuer supplied and supported while the cars are assembled, tuned and prepared by the teams.
The predomiate reason for ‘Car Of Tomorrow’ came about to make the machines / NASCAR racing safer !!
It is infact your knowledge about this event that is limited and distant from the truth.
That said, i have never stated on a single occassion about NASCAR even being remotely similar to production / road going cars because they are not … far from it !!
However, the platform of Toyota’s NASCAR is based on a modified Camry chassis (2008) but that’s exactly were the similarities end.
Correct me if i am wrong but motorsport is about expressing engineering talent wether it be V8 Super Cars, Rally Racing, NASCAR, F1, production and so forth …
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June 2nd, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Fan Person - as stated above, i have said absolutely nothing about NASCAR’s are modified road going versions and it would be absloutely stupid the think otherwise, they are specifically engineered race cars … PERIOD !!
However, the Toyota NASCAR platform is based on a modified Toyota chassis (not shell) and that’s exactly were the similiarities end. Engines and many other components as mentioned are manufactuer specific aswell but not related to production cars.
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June 2nd, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Andrew M, to clarify, Daewoo’s next wave of cars will be “based on” opel platforms, however they will obviously do their own development, ie unique exteriors and interiors, different suspension tuning etc. Basically think about how a Skoda Octavia differs from a VW Jetta and you’ll be more or less on the mark.
I agree with your comments about the existing Daewoo stock, yes the barina and viva models where more or less updated variants of the existing daewoo kalos and lacetti. Holden (who did the mods for GM to turn the exisitng daewoo products into something halfway acceptable) did their best to make the barina and viva passable, but you can only do so much with a bad car. The next wave however will be of equal quality to the opel products for sure. But i agree that holden jumped into the daewoos a good 3 or 4 years too early!
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June 2nd, 2008 at 4:55 pm
In other sporting news Mika Winkelhock def Yani Kardon in the Norwegian Curling Championship final
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June 2nd, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Richo - you stated that you have followed the sport for many years …
Lets test you knowledge
1. During the 2007 season, what Team (not manufactuer)was the most competitive … ??
2. During the 2007 / 2008 off-season, Joe Gibbs Racing switched from Chevy to Toyota. Why - in detail … ??
3. What Ford Team is currently the most dominate of all Ford Teams … ???
4. Which Team Owner was arguably the most vocal against Toyota entering NASCAR … ??
5. Which of these drivers is slated to be departing Joe Gibbs Racing at the end of 2009 - Kyle Busch, Denny Hamlin or Tony Stewart … ??
6. An easy one for ‘ya … what is the capacity of the NASCAR engines … ??
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June 2nd, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Around and around and around………who cares!!!!
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June 2nd, 2008 at 6:37 pm
I agree Realcars! NASCAR is just a ring that you go around and around and it gets so BORING! WHO CARES! The only good part is gigantic crashes!
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June 2nd, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Boy Wonder Says:
June 2nd, 2008 at 4:55 pm
In other sporting news Mika Winkelhock def Yani Kardon in the Norwegian Curling Championship final
hahaha……….yep thats as interesting as Toyota in Nascar…or even Nascar for that matter………
Realcars you said it around and around. How Toybota doing in F1?
Not too good…….never mind that will give them more money to perhaps sponsor someone in the 2009 Curling Comp !
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June 2nd, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Worlds most boring cars it sounds like you havent ever been or at least seen a production line in your life. Its a highly controlled enivironment, if GM produce the Prius you can bet that the processes in place will be the same as for any Toyota. All they are doing is borrowoing the plant & equipment to put it together.
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June 2nd, 2008 at 7:13 pm
Toyotas .The Worlds Most Boring Cars, sorry but I would not call every toyota boring. What abouth the 200series Land Cruiser? No! because thats one of toyota’s best cars and its a awesome 4×4! But……………..there are boring toyota’s like the Prius and Camry is the only ones I can think of.
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June 2nd, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Toyota sell boring cars? The Aurion is the most powerful vehicle in its class. If thats boring, then what are Commodore and Falcon!? Unfortunately some people are stuck in a time warp, Toyota are changing their image very quickly…. this aint the 90s anymore.
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June 2nd, 2008 at 7:17 pm
are you serious fan of? sif i feel any need at all to prove myself to you! you stated the toyota nascar is built off a modified camry chassis which simply isn’t true, not even close. Yes there are some (extreemly) minor differences between the makes in nascar but its nothing to do with being specific to the camry, there is nothing even reomotely camry in the toyota NASCAR. Go find something else to do other then getting fired up on the internet
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June 2nd, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Good words Richo, good words!
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June 2nd, 2008 at 7:42 pm
TP: Theyre 2 different classes.
Aurion: Large [Family] Sized Front Wheel Drive Sedan -
Falcon and Commodore: Large [Family] Sized Rear Wheel Drive Sedan.. Therefore; you can’t really compare the two as the power is delivered differently which would influence the way the car handles etc..like Torque Steer. It’s like comparing an AWD WRX or Evo to a Prius or a Yaris to a Koenisiegg
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June 2nd, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Boy, the majority of people dont care if its FWD/AWD/RWD, the fact is its a 6er and a large car leaves it in the same category.
Only wannabe Daddy racers would buy a standard Commodore/Falcon/Aurion for performance means.
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June 2nd, 2008 at 8:09 pm
TP,
yes technically the Aurion does have the higher power output figure,
but it is a long way from being the gruntiest most powerfull overall vehicle (if thats a properly strung sentence??ha ha ha)
i suppose the aurion is exciting just like the theme park rides in thinking the thing wont turn the corners due to torque steer
Richo,
ok mate that sounds a bit better that you clarify that they will only be throwing them the blue print to the chassis or what ever.
i still dont agree that holden has really transformed the daewoos though. check them out side by side and the lanos and Viva are pretty much identical and the barina Identical to a Matiz.
the average punter wouldnt pick it, even if you left the badges on.
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June 2nd, 2008 at 8:10 pm
But it was silly for Toyota to say “We are the biggest aussie and powerful six aussie car” but in a FWD, its silly. I bet it turned alot of buyers a way and headed to falcon or Commodore. Sure there got the power but not the brains!
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June 2nd, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Duck,
that doesnt make sense.
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June 2nd, 2008 at 8:23 pm
I agree duck, a RWD or even a AWD config would be better but I havent had problems applying the power to the wheels, but then again im on decent 225 tyres and hardly any torque steer at all, even