CarAdvice to support Driver Training Programs
24 Jun, 2008
34 Comments 
At CarAdvice we love cars and we love driving, it goes without saying. Our writers and staff spend many hours and clock up hundreds of kilometers a week each on the road and as much as we might enjoy our more performance orientated vehicles, we’re also very mindful of safe motoring practices and are keen advocates of road safety.
Often we have felt our efforts to promote safe driving initiatives to be in vain and that altering social values away from the mentality of government sponsored Speed Kills campaigns, toward that of a more evenhanded approach to safe driving has gone unheeded.
Speed, or more correctly excessive speed for the circumstance, as most unbiased and intelligent people would recognise, is often only one contributor to an accident’s overall composition and is all too often (in our opinion) used as a scapegoat to mask what is a far greater concern – the lack of correct and ample driver training.
As we spend so much time behind the wheel, we also feel it important to recognise and spend time practicing and improving our own training, skills and experience, much in the same way a pilot, say, would maintain his/her flying
hours. It is therefore disheartening and frustrating when reports prepared for more popularly respected motoring and government bodies by experts are given so much credence.
These self-funded reports, which often attempt to dissuade or disprove the notion that driver education improves road safety, are alarming to say the least and in many cases appear irrational, especially when you consider they are often prepared by experts who’s qualifications have no direct correlation to the field.
Take for example the following quotes from a 2007 report entitled “The effectiveness of driver training as a road safety measure” prepared by consultant Dr Ron Christie (Psych) of RCSC Service, prepared for the RACV.
- “Research evidence suggests that most driver training contributes little to reductions in accident involvement or crash risk among drivers of all age and experience groups”
- “Improving driver knowledge and skill does not always lead to a change in on-road behaviour or reduce crash risk among trainees”
- “On road driving experience is the only way most higher-order cognitive skills related to driving are developed and maintained”
- “Conventional driver training is unlikely to undo firmly established past learning… nor alter motivation or personal values”
- “It is of concern that the provision of conventional driver training beyond that required to gain an initial driver license often leads to increased crash risk among novice drivers… unduly increasing the confidence of novices about their own experience”
We could go on, but feel essentially this mindset highlights an important and intriguing attitude of these so-called experts, comfortable in their armchair vantage and with reams of statistics, that proves real world truths are conveniently being ignored. It’s a bit like ordering a soldier in to battle before instructing him on how to use a rifle.
Simply put getting a license is too easy and the privilege of driving a car is often mistaken for a right, setting a dangerously blasé mindset among drivers, especially those who are less experienced, that driving is their right. We decided to take a stand.
Over the coming months CarAdvice will be attending a number of driver training programs and following the progress of a number of students in all age groups to highlight why we believe these programs are of crucial importance in developing not only more competent drivers, but a better, safer and more absolute mindset among all road users.
As a bonus to our loyal readers, participating drive schools will then support CarAdvice in extending a discount to you so that we may further encourage road safety through out the community.
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June 24th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Nice one guys!
I’ve done a few driver training days, albeit track/skid pan focused, but I’ve certainly learned a few things for everyday use.
Vote:June 24th, 2008 at 10:54 am
“Research evidence suggests that most driver training contributes little to reductions in accident involvement or crash risk among drivers of all age and experience groups”
I love the way these expert reports always begin with their escape clause – the first three words in the report establish that whatever they say next can not be attributed to their own prejudices.
Another point – evidence cannot “suggest” anything, not ever. Evidence is evidence and nothing more – people infer things from evidence.
Good luck trying to crack this hard shelled egg – it’s been around so long they all believe their own rhetoric.
Vote:June 24th, 2008 at 11:30 am
I’m a 26year old male, and have never had any kind of fine, incident that results from my driving skill (or lack there-of). I was taught to drive in reverse for 6 (long) months by my father before he allowed me to forward (yes even in the paddock or driveway), then he made me reverse trailers everywhere too! I have been driving in one form or another since I was 14 (obviously not on public roads at that age). I then drove on a potholed horrible dirt NSW road (the worst) all through my L’s and P’s and early Blacks. I’m also a car enthusiast, and enjoy nothing more than filling up my car and going for a drive… to no where in particular (harder now as it costs an arm and a leg).
Now my point is… I know I need to do a defensive driving course, in fact I think I should do one every 5 – 10 years to brush up. I can’t HONESTLY say that if I end up in a slide, in the wet, that every time I can hold it, catch it or control it enough to avoid serious injury.
It will cost! But its allot less in the long run than having someone sue me for running a red light on a rainy day and injuring them. Or even the fines I could incur for being a dropkick.
If you guys at CarAdvise are serious, count me and my wife in, especially if it’s near Newcastle!
It’s about bloody time that someone with a reputation took the initiative. I’ve read and read from other mags, and websites all their gripes about the same thing. You guys deserve credit for getting off your butts and putting your reputation on the line.
Hats off to you!
Vote:June 24th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Fantastic initiative – two thumbs up!
Vote:June 24th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Good initiative. Well done guys.
Vote:June 24th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Wel done Car Advice. You guys are going from stength to strength.
Interesting you mention flying. For some jurisdictions, a check flight with an instructor is generally required if you have not flown in 4 weeks (28 days) and you cant even take up a passenger at all unless you have performed 3 landings in a similar time frame.
At any rate, I fully support the idea of driver training and if you guys get a deal for your regulars even better. Count me in too.
Vote:June 24th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
I recently completed a course by Corporate Driver Training Australia, their course is not driver training but rather low risk driving. They also make the point that practicing car control on racetracks provides useful skills but greatly increases the optimisim of the driver. Rather we should be practing to drive to minimise risk by keeping sufficient space and keeping fully aware of the surrounding environment and being proactive to prevent high risk situations. This course is accepted by a number of large companies including Orica, Shell, Origin Energy and others as being the best option for reduction in vehicle incidents. I would strongly urge this kind of approach over traditional defensive driver training as it attacks the root causes of vehicle accidents. Think outside the box as to how you can control the environment you operate your vehicle in rather than reacting to it and controlling skids.
Vote:June 24th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Mr Brooksy & Austin ^^^ have very good points.
I believe however the training needs to be implemented from the get-go, rather than “trying to teach an old dog new tricks”. The amount of training provided, or required by the government is very lax. They do not force you to be taught how to drive by anyone in particular. It could be your older brother that has his Black licence, but he’s lost it twice for speeding…
I believe we need the facilities to have a required professional instructor component of the required hours you need to accumulate to get your licence. Also, a Zero Tolerance Policy should be introduced for the testing. This will get bad drivers off the road and stop new bad drivers from getting on the road in the first place.
And yes i am a 23yr old enthusiast and i have lost my licence for low range speeding offenses!
Vote:June 24th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
I like the website and respect some of the pieces that you guys do, but for gods sake I am so over this bulls**t that is pulled over and over about defensive driver training.
It is not always the answer! the fact is for some people doing a skills based driving course is going to have the opposite effect. Some drivers go back on to the road with the attitude of:
“Well I have done a driving course, so I know how to handle it if it goes wrong” or “Its ok for me to speed a little now because I will be able to handle it”.
Now I am not saying that for all persons it is like this, but for many, particularity the young this is the case. It is also exceedingly obvious that driving ability is a natural born skill and for many a 1, 2 or even 3 day driving course is only going to teach them theory in a practical way. But if it were all to hit the fan when on the road, conditions are a lot different: Uneven driving surfaces, poor visibility, distractions in the car and other cars on the road; as well as having NO IDEA that the incident is about to occur.I agree for some it does/will help but it is not a key solution.
However I do agree with a note brought up by Austin, that is low risk driver education. This is the thing that will potentially stop an accident, by knowing that grip levels are poor in wet, by knowing that safe braking distance is essential. DRIVER ATTITUDE IS THE BIGGEST KEY. If someone were to complete a defensive course and still have a speedy /bad attitude- they are still most probably going to end up in a incident. Change the attitude to something more like “we are just trying to get from A to B”, then there are going to be a lot less incidents.
I am not a expert, but I am close to the field. You guys would know my father as I am aware that you have meet him on many occasions during press launches. He has given me the attitude which I believe is to be completely true. He has some of the earlier safety manuals for CAMS and serves on some of the safety boards.
Vote:June 24th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
It needs to be a mix of Defensive and Awareness Improving driving courses. Being safe won’t protect you in an emergency situation. If you leave a nice gap that is good, but if something happens, knowing how to avoid an object and utilise the safety features of your car will keep you alive.
Even if you leave a 5 second gap, just slamming the brakes on won’t save you all the time.
Vote:June 24th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Sound great – I suspect providing the price is right most decent folk would enjoy a session especially on a skid pan. I know I would.
Brooksy – great stuff but remember if you get into that slide you mentioned then you’re obviously driving to fast for the conditions. Certainly in the wet but perhaps not on black ice (a phenomemen known widley known in Asutralia)
Vote:June 24th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
sorry for typos. got a bit of RSI – too much computer work and skiing injuries.
Vote:June 24th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Nathaniel,
Just to address your concerns and highlight some points you may have missed.
We’re not about approaching this purely from a ‘Defensive’ position. As you may have noticed, at no time did we mention a ‘Defensive Driving’ course in the article, as we are well aware of the connotations carried here.
We will be covering a range of courses and observing the outcome – also as mentioned.
You may have also noticed we drew focus toward improving mindsets and attitude, which as you correctly highlighted, are of key importance. So perhaps mate, take a little more notice of the article’s wording next time and put a little more thought in to your reply before jumping to conclusions.
Thanks Matt.
Vote:June 24th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
You’re right, driving is a privelege not a right… only yesterday I overheard a girl talking on the tube saying that her instructor was a “perfectionist” because he wouldn’t let her onto main roads because she “couldn’t stop going over the white lines” and “stalling the car”.
OMG, I almost slapped her. If you get the right attitude and do the basics well, you shouldn’t need the skills they teach you in a defensive driving course.
Vote:June 24th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Well done CA, glad at least one Australian publication has the guts to stand behind something worthwhile. You’ve got my support.
Vote:June 24th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
I would like to disagree if nothing more than to support healthy discussion:
You do not state what you mean by driver training. Is this a weekend, a week or several days over time?
May I suggest that it is accepted in our world that people with greater experience are generally better skilled at what they do than newcomers to the task?
And persons who exit training are more confident than when they enter and therefore willing to take risks backed by this learnt confidence?
Now to concatenate my points above:
How will a certain course of driver training shorten the amount of time that it takes to become competent while maintaining a level head on people who exit this training?
Vote:June 24th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
I agree with the point of ow risk driving or ‘real’ world driving. There are companies that teach people how to be safe drivers on the road, not on the track. I no this as my dad and brother have both had training form different companies and told me things that i never would have thought about. I am a 17 P Plater, who has been cut down a peg cause i have already wrote off a car, thankfully no one got hurt. I was over confident and cocky. I am now more cautious. What i am getting at is that this cockiness, which is in most P Platers should be stopped before there P’s.
Im not totally against defensive driving. You may get into a situation where its not your fault and get into a skid/spin, such as when a car side swipes you or cuts you off. You need to know how to control a car when these events happen. To stop people being cocky about this, the way its approached by the trainers is crucial. Both defensive and real world driving should be used together to improve driving skills.
The new license tests are trying to improve real world driving as it is more focused on avoiding situations before they happen and being aware of your surrounding.
My 2c
Vote:June 25th, 2008 at 7:10 am
Andrew,
In response to your concatenation, we simply cannot answer until we’ve studied the courses at length for ourselves. We’ll cover all your concerns once the courses have been attended in full and all outcomes investigated thoroughly.
Matt.
Vote:June 25th, 2008 at 8:30 am
Right behind you all the way drop me an email if I can help. My girlfriend and I have done a few driver training courses and skidpan training and I always learn something new or get to practice what I don’t on the road unless it’s an emergency.
Vote:June 25th, 2008 at 10:38 am
As a former Driver Trainer (covering Defensive, performance, advanced, rural and off-road), every day I was asked the question by candidates “when do we do skids?”
This is the reason why we need driver training!
Firstly, driver training should be implemented in every school as part of the cirriculum, starting with the theory while concentrating on driver behaviour and attitude the whole way through.
The road rules need to be retrained (as 80% of people will not pass a simple road rule test)which is proven every day here in Queensland (watch the mergers/tailgaters/RH lane hogs as a start) and EVERYBODY should be made aware of the changes (a simple way would be a list of ammended rules with your license renewal). Ignorance is no excuse (as any Copper will tell you) but it’d be nice to know in advance.
A good start Car advice (on your concept) but we need to review what is taught on these programs as well. I don’t think fanging around a skid pan with some ex-race-driver type patting your back and over-boosting your confidence on the road is going to improve the current road situation.
We need to train drivers how NOT to get into trouble rather than just get out of it.
Vote:June 25th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Fenno has commented excatcly as to what I was getting at; and being an Driver Trainer he is well aware of the topic.This line just highlighted it for me, and I think perfectly sums it up:
“I don’t think fanging around a skid pan with some ex-race-driver type patting your back and over-boosting your confidence on the road is going to improve the current road situation”
No offence to anyone but, having a loud-mouth, self glorified person like Ian Luff. Barking at someone on a skid pan, talking of how good he is and how the person “is a good driver” is not going help many.
Vote:June 25th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Good initiative but I don’t know how u persuade people to drive according to conditions.
Vote:June 25th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Well Reckless1,
the “research evidence suggests”-clause is there because the researcher is probably only analyzing a sample of the population. The data may not have the power to make a conclusion, so his statement should be guarded. He could say “research evidence shows”, but it would seem the statistics he bases his analysis on is not conclusive.
The rest of the points he makes appear to be anecdotal.
Vote:June 25th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
You make them aware that their ambition (9 times out of ten) exceeds their ability. Re-teaching the basic fundamentals of emergency braking alone will make all (but the most arrogant – for these guys push-ups solve the problem) see how much more there is to being a safe driver than swerves and slide control.
Vote:As I have said in many other posts on this site…Proactive not reactive!
June 25th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
The thing about Ian Luff is that he screams and yells at you to get you to see how easy it is to lose concentration and lose control of the car. Anyone sitting in their car on a skid pan will be focused on doing the right thing, not in their usual relaxed mode when driving to and from work for example.
By pushing you to go quicker in a controlled environment it displays how a car can fall into over or under-steer. Majority of the driving public have no-idea what these terms mean or how to avoid it. Being aware, not alarmed is how all drivers should be
Vote:June 25th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Sorry CA, I made the same mistake as many have in jumping onto the “defensive driver” miscommunication. I agree with many of the guys who state that it’s as/more important to change people’s attitudes to driving etc.
I’m a high schools values education and personal development coordinator, and in my line of work I see that changing people’s attitudes is about as easy as building a rocket at the age of 2 (it takes years to completely change BASIC foundational attitudes). WHY? Mainly because people dont WANT to change. They are happier or ignorant in their attitudes, and dont want or dont know that they should do something about it.
(Ok, some boring research info)
Research conducted into the development of human behavior has shown that between birth and the age of approx 14, 90% of your world view/attitudes are soaked up from millions of sources. Then between 15-17ish they “question” much of what they see and have believed to be true. Between 17-20ish the “explore” other options and opinions. But by 20ish onward peoples attitudes etc are set and it’s much harder to change.
Unfortunately no matter what you guys can do, you’ll be working with most people over the age of 20 (I assume). I fully support what your doing (as I have stated) but unfortunately until education is put into schools (AKA Fennos’ point) it’s a band-aid on a bullet wound. (In fact maybe I should add this to what I do…)
But I know that you guys and other car enthusiast groups will ultimately make a difference. And from my opinion, if you through your efforts save ONE persons life, then GO HARD!
There’s so much more to say, but that will do…
Vote:June 25th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
Thanks Brooksy, mate all we can do is try and it’s that trying that we feel is an important step. It’s far easier to sit back and let someone else do it, but that would be easy – so we’re in to give it a go. Let’s hope our efforts pay off.
Vote:June 25th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
As one of the largest suppliers of Defensive Driver Training in Australia, I congratulate Car Advice on their initiative. Last year 7,486 people attended one of our courses across Australia and we have driver training centres under construction in Brisbane, Sydney, Lismore, Singapore and Jakarta.
Can I add the following to the debate:
1. Advanced/Performance/skidpan training can create over-confidence, not Defensive driving. My company bans under 21’s from attending the “advanced” programs unless they have done a Defensive driving course first There is often a mis-use of terminology here and skidpan training is called Defensive driving (there are some training schools they don’t help the distiction by wrongly labelling their courses).
2. In every course, trainers see people who just don’t get it. Many participants are over-confident before attending. We sleep well at night because we did not create the monster and we definetly challenged their attitudes and added knowledge. But probably did not change their attitudes. How can 1 day undo 17 years of mis-information. Training therefore is not the answer..but it is part of the solution. You can lead the horse to water…….
3. The true measurement of training’s effectiveness should be knowledge gain, not crash involvement. On this scale driver training would prove a huge success. People leave with more knowledge than they came with.
4. Our company has trained 30,000 Year 12 students and each year 145 schools enrol students. Never has a teacher (a professional eductor in their own right) said our training was methodologically unsound or did not bring their students back each year since they thought our courses increased the confidence of participants.
5. If the behaviour scientists acknowledge that training can change attitude (ie. create overconfidence) then doesn’t this follow that training done correctly can change attitudes for the better. Why does research always claim that the training had a negative outcome, since if it can change attitudes it proves how valuable correct training can be in the road safety puzzle.
I could go on defending my business. But we are fully booked for the next 3 months (every day of every month in several locations). I think people are voting for themselves.
More information on our research can be found off our website (www.sdt.com.au)
Vote:June 25th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Matt,
That is good that you are approaching this with an open mind and considering different types of training, I would strongly encourage you to consider the CDTA courses if it is possible to get them. Orica use the courses as many of its employees regularly drive over 1500kms a week, often carrying dangerous goods, it makes drivers more aware of their responsibilities. Those responsibilities are of course essentially the same as those of every other road user, and that is to ensure EVERYONE can go home to their family without being hurt.
Yes Nathaniel was a little abrupt in his wording, however I draw your attention to Car Advice’s public criticism of the RACV’s report into driver training. As you should be aware, it is important to back up your statements, and I believe the report justifies its conclusions with statistically reliable sample data. I think perhaps you should more carefully consider your position before publishing work that brings into disrepute the work of a recognised expert in the field.
If you wish to have more information from the driver education program we use I would suggest visiting the Corporate Driver Training Australia website.
Vote:June 26th, 2008 at 11:35 am
I am an owner of a driver training school in Newcastle, NSW. We would like to show our support of CarAdvice on this iniative and offer our driver education services to your members at a discounted rate. We provide the first Green driver education service, our fleet is 100% carbon offset. We provide a range of services, educating and training learners, instructors, disability & driver rehabilitation, trailor towing and reversing, advanced safe driving skills(one on one training) and aged drivers. Visit our website for more details on us.
I encourage CarAdvice to contact us, as we would like to participate in their research and provide their members with discount incentives. Until then, TT Driver Training will offer a 5% discount on all of our driver training services to members who mention the CarAdvice driver training programs article.
Vote:June 26th, 2008 at 11:37 am
our website is http://www.ttdriver.com.au
Vote:June 26th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Well done Car Advice.
In my opinion advanced driver training programs provide drivers with the opportunity to know the limits of their cars and their personal abilities during various simulated conditions. They allow you to practice emergency accident avoidance through braking and direction changing. They teach you how to set up your seat and mirrors for maximum vision and control. They let you experience how long it takes to stop in an emergency and hence give credence to the notion of being proactive rather than reactive. Sure activities like skid pans are competitive and even fun, but these behaviours are not taught for reproduction on the road, rather to highlight limitations of car and driver.
Like Mr T, “I pity the fool” who calls advanced driving training counter-productive.
Vote:June 26th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Hi Austin,
The reason for highlighting the examples from Dr Christie’s work is that although I in no way doubt his qualifications, it is important to recognise the far reaching impact of his report and by whom the report was funded.
When these facts are considered, the negative sway of his argument draws a certain falsity to his conclusions and also contradicts the equal amount of data supporting the fact that well provisioned driver training can indeed make a difference to the mindset of a student, be they any age.
It seems in summary that the report takes the attitude that training is too hard to implement over the wider spectrum so is therefore not worthwhile, and that scare tactics, catchy slogans and pinky waving are thought to have a greater impact. It simply isn’t so.
If even half the money spent on the TACs advertising was distributed among schools for driver training I’m sure the impact would be further reaching – now if only I could have the chance to prove it.
But anyway, rant over, for now we’ll just wait and see what comes of our little initiative.
Kind regards Matt.
Vote:January 31st, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Hi,
Marvelous training is given by you. Thank you for giving this good post. By taking our driver ed class, you will learn: the rules and laws of the road, the meaning of various traffic signs, the many responsibilities associated with driving, the main causes of accidents and how to potentially avoid them.
Thanks
Vote:Sofia.