Fuel prices continue to rise
24 Apr, 2008
73 Comments 
Petrol giant Caltex has today warned motorists to expect rising petrol costs for ‘a long time’ to come, a result of record oil prices.
The Singapore Tapas price, which is used by Australian petrol distributors to set wholesale prices, hit a record high of $124 a barrel yesterday.
The RACV was quick to note that given the increasing cost, petrol prices could climb by another 5c as early as next month, resulting in almost $1.60 a litre at the pump.
“There is long-term upward pressure on petrol prices and Australians, like motorists around the world, can expect to pay more. Petrol prices are rising, and are expected to continue to rise, but not because of collusion or price gouging, as our critics suggest,” Caltex chairman Elizabeth Bryan told shareholders today at the company’s annual general meeting in Sydney.
With some analysts already estimating the price of fuel to reach the $2 mark in 12 months time, just how much more will Australians take before downgrading to small capacity or diesel engines?
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April 24th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Thinking about buying a farm and growing my own fuel.
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April 24th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
I love my XR6 Turbo but !!!!! glad i only live 10 min from work
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April 24th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
FUEL note Fuel prices are out of control, Petrol, Diesel and Gas have all been going up every week. I am tired of hearing all the excuses from the Oil companies why they have to increase these prices. Yet the profits that are being made are astronomical. Governments do not exercise their power over these companies because of the tax (whether directly or indirectly) revenue they collect. I wonder whats going to happen when the bubble bursts. I’m getting old and cynical. If I had my way I would start a government run fuel outlet, maybe 50/50 blend of ethanol. And start to compete with the oil companies. Maybe set up charging stations for electric cars as a pre-emptive plan for the future. Ban all discounting from Coles and Safeways.
The more I think about it the angrier I get. Is this what free enterprise is all about.
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April 24th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
yesterday I saw the fuel price in my suburb at 154.9 and nearly fainted!! imagine getting premium for some cars that require!
I think Australia will have to look for smaller engines than the current straight 6, v6, and v8s!
I would hate to think how much an average family is spending on fuel these days!
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April 24th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
The good news is that this should promote innovation. Who would care about looking for alternatives if petrol was still 59.9c a litre?
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April 24th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Andrew, couldn’t agree more. With prices in much of europe being over $2 per litre for the past few years, this is where much of the innovation in more efficient vehicles has come from. With the US market only paying $1 per litre, its only now that their buying habits are changing, and even then only slowly. MAybe when we see the US market paying 6, 7 or 8 dollars a gallon we will see some real innovation.
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April 24th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Innovation aside, some of us are really struggling - something must be done, and soon.
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April 24th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Diesel costs have gone mad and although we are experiencing pain, the UK is having issues too.
Around 1.10 for petrol and 1.20 for diesel (getting close to $2.50/litre) there…
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April 24th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
And thanks to a state Labour Gov for the past 20 years we can’t rely on public transport…:(
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April 24th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
they way this is going… when i am ready to upgrade from from by BA XR6… its more and more looking Like i Will be getting a Mondeo… i hope i dont have to do this… but its looking more and more likly….
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April 24th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
There is very little chance of anyone undertaking a research and development project to come up with an alternative fuel source to petrol
To do so would require substantial financial backing from either big business - which shareholders won’t agree to or the government which is more unlikely given that the oil companies contribute heavily to both the Libs and Labs
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April 24th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Time to buy a pantone geet device
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April 24th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Don’t you all wish you lived within easy walking distance from a commuter rail station?
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April 24th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
This is why i have my BA and AU Falcons on LPG…. :)
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April 24th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
my responce to the last comment of the article, how much more till australians will change to diesel engines?
well along with the petrol price research released today, so called a-n-a-l-y-s-t-s have declared that the diesel option does not yield any savings due to the record diesel prices.
the diesel price at the bowser now demands a 30c premium.
now the thing that makes me laugh is when people say why dont ford and holden hurry up and put diesels in the commy and falcon.
well just to look at it quickly, in the case of a large sedan you would only save 20% consumption, but the price of diesel is more than 20% more expensive. also couple that with the premium demanded for diesel on the purchase of a vehicle.
can any one guess what im gonna say next??????
it starts with “L” and ends in “G”. yep LPG!!!!!
if you are that worried, throw a conversion on your vehicle and it will pay itself off in 6 months.
so to all the people saying we need an alternative fuel to petrol, i say open your eyes next time you visit a servo, because the “LPG” signage on the price board doesnt mean they will fill your BBQ bottles, it means they sell this alternative fuel you people are crying for
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April 24th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Sounds to me lie the oil producers, petroleum companies and the governments are ripping us off due to it being so easy. They know we have an essential demand for their product so they stuff us.
Perhaps starting a campaign on certian days by not buying fuel will hurt the companies. It was done in the UK a few years ago and did have an effect.
Diesel here is now £ 1.23 or $2.90 a litre (UK)
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April 24th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
No name,
or perhaps since we produce something like 90% of our own oil here, why not make our oil price independant from the world oil prices and not let the “price of eggs in china” (so to speak) affect our lives
perhaps if more people knew that we have plentiful supplies of natual resources for our selves, maybe then there would be pressure put on the government to try and regulate our own economy rather than chasing what is happening else where
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April 24th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
The government when the GST came in was getting about 9.5c per litre now they are getting 15.2 cents per litre.
about 50% up in takings.
Coles and Woolies where giving 4c per litre on 95c now they are giving 4c on $1.52 per litre. Thanks for nothing
Look at the EV-1 from GM in the early 90’s
200 km range (who drives more than 200km per day, not trip’s away but just going to work most people have 2 cars these days)
2008 EV-1 town car plus an XR6 turbo for trips.
The EV-1 then could out excelerate a mazda MX-5 easy
costs about 20c to charge for the 200k range
This fellow car buffs is early 90’s,
1. 68cm TV $2500
2. The XT or 286 computer with windows 3 and DOS 5 and no easy to get internet
3. Mobile phones that where the same size as a brick
Can anyone tell me why nearly 2 decades latter that we cannot do better by 50%
Because the bastard dont wont to.
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April 24th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
If anyone thinks (cynical statement coming) that LPG prices won’t soon be over $1 you are kidding yourself. Petrol companies couldn’t care less about you or me and the same huge increases in Petrol will soon be the same in LPG just watch. We are held to ranson and that will always be the case. When did a week go by that the news hasn’t has someone complaining about petrol. We are all hurting and it affects from farmers through to nearly every facet of society. If no alternative is derived as a fuel for combustion engines we will all be riding bikes and horses to get around. That’s progress!!
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April 24th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Make motorbikes cheaper to rego and insure. They use less road space and can carry two if required, same as a ute.
I dont know how many times I have been in Sydney and 80% of the cars have 1 person in it. What a waste
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April 24th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
OK, for the uninitiated, petrol is priced based mainly on oil price, oil is a free market (which we are a part off so don’t expect us to go alone) and the conglomerate of traders effectively set the price, not the oil companies – but they do reap the benefits. This is a commodity, and in a free market, the commodity is all about supply and demand. With China, India et al consuming huge amounts and oil nations political instability, there is no surprise about the oil price.
Also, Governments don’t and shouldn’t set taxation policy based on supply and demand constraints, so don’t expect tax relief in the short term.
Then there is the issue of peak oil. If this is right we will be remembering the time petrol was only $1.50 and we will all be in deep sh*t. Inflation will go up, jobs will go down and it’ll cost a bomb to get food to the supermarkets. On the bright side, we’ll all be riding bikes everywhere and the Global Warming thing will be sorted!
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April 24th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
Whilst the Asian demand has created the fuel price hikes this will mean that the Asians using there new found purchase of a vehicle won’t be able to afford to run their cars, unless of course they have cheapo fuel unlike us. They gain we lose. So stop buying cheap Asian goods and fight back their economies.
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April 24th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Westy,
mate even when LPG hits $1 down the track just think where petrol will be……..$2.20 anyone?
it is an alternative fuel. how can you say LPG will suffer down the track with higher prices yet imply if we were running on used cooking oil, that the price of used cooking oil wouldnt suffer the same fate.
LPG is an alternative fuel which will maintain the price gap between Petrol and continue to halve fuel bills whether it is .60c per litre or $1.00 per litre.
when the RACQ/RACV does a report on consumer LPG prices and exposes export billions of litres of the stuff each year for like 4cents per litre what are the fuel companies going to use as an excuse?
they cant blame the oil prices.
perhaps then the government could step in and regulate the pricing. currently with the Petrol pricing the government has no control what so ever over it.
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April 24th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Milar,
yes i know we are now tied in with world oil prices, and i know that will never change, but wasnt it our government that guaranteed our oil producers world oil prices???
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April 24th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Australia is natural resource gold mine! we have a STUPID amount of the stuff. especially for our population.. however our economy relies so much on export we cant exploit like the saudis and russians do.
Australia is the largest producer of natural gas… yet we export most of it to china. who sell it back to us at a higher price.
LPG isnt as efficent as petrol and so range per fill up is less. it works out to break even depending on what day you fill up.. and all you get from it is less boot space. LPG isnt the answer
neither is eletric…its a good mid way step. but battery technology “whilst getting better. thansk mostly to more consumer eletronics these days” is still far from car ready.”enviromentally friendly, cheap. light. small. etc”
oil companies know the world runs on oil. it can make its 3 billion dollars a year proffit. and still justify price increase….
we are defently better off than europe/ but at least the choice for stupidly efficent good engines is there… shit holdne hasnt even put int play its cylinder shut down system yet.
the future…. will defently be hydrogen. so who ever finds a good way of storing and delivering hydrogen. will be. the richest person …..ever…………and it will send those saudis back to selling carpet.
people… cheap fuel is gone… forget about it, its never gona cost 50 bucks for your weekend away again.
cookie
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April 24th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
again, still logical to drive V8s with 300kW?
I know people who buy them dont care about price of fuel. Its all about grunt and all.
But still… if there is a lighter, more efficient performance car, with actual efficient engineering done… why not eh?
rather than just keep increasing engine size and engine capacity to crank power…..
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April 24th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Anthony… hate to say it, but there has been research and development on alternative “fuel” for cars for years now.
Its naive to think, that the oil companies and the billions of dollars yet to be made from the depleting oil sources has not played a factor in “delaying” these alternatives from being utilized in the commercial world.
The best the governments (globally) can do is introduce and promote the “phasing out” of fuel, the pressure obviously coming from the oil manufacturers… you said it best, the world’s transportation is ran by oil….
but there are definitely has been developments that either been shelved, stalled or simply freezed funded, to allow the fuel companies to make more money of the remaining fuel sources… heck USA still has atleast 50 years worth of fuel reserved for the day that the middle east oil companies run out of stock… do you know how much billions (trillion) of dollars that can bring in for america?
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April 24th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
Seems to me Jamison that a lot of Australian and the USA population still want the V6’s and V8’s and the reqesite performance that goes with it. What they ought to be doing is dropping engine sizes to say European levels (2.0litre or less is normal) and saving 30 -40% of their fuel costs. I don’t belive for a minute that they really get the day to day consumption levels they claim for say a 4.0litre Ford.
I for one think fuel will double in cost within two years, then we’ll feel the crunch. It will hurt the USA and Australian drivers more than Europe as we already drive economical cars, and they are getting better with engines like 1.4/1.6 turbos outperforming 2.0 litre cars.
See yah
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April 25th, 2008 at 7:54 am
Andrew,
I take your point except you are forgetting one thing. As demand for LPG increases the price too will increase just as it is now doing for Petrol so I don’t entirely agree with you. Logic means more people will want LPG therefore price will increase rapidly.
No Name yes a 4 Litre Ford does get real world figures of less than 10L/100 combined cycle. I should know I have owned them and recent models at that. Currently I own a Territory and combined cycle I get 11.5L/100.
Don’t forget fuel doesn’t just hurt motorists but everything will become extremely dear. Freight costs will increase if fuel increases to over $2 a litre. The social costs will be enormous yet we all sit and just watch it happen like lemmings. Amazing aren’t we…..that’s progress!!
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April 25th, 2008 at 8:38 am
cost of milk, bread, meat, ..well.. everything is gona skyrocket this year “like it did last year..hmmm”…….
and with australias very compeditive supermarket chains………um…..both of them…. we can expect a healthy dose of f%#k you at the check out…..rent and morgage keeps going up. .. we are being paid less and less….
………….anyone else considering moving to a tropical island with me to live out the rest of days in paradise.. it really seems like the begining of the end
thank you oil companies…………no wait.. thank you stupid us :(
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April 25th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Might get myself a Prius converted ti LPG! :-)
ULP could be $2L by XMAS……OUCH!
Thank God i have LPG Falcon Ute, why did i wait so long to upgrade?
Cheers
F-0
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April 25th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Anthony C,
LPG isnt a reasonable answer???Pffffft
your knowledge in australia being a natural resource gold mine is spot on, but unfortunately your knowledge of the LPG product when put to use in motorvehicles isnt.
im gonna bust a few myths for you right now.
1. when you run dedicated LPG the cylinder goes where the petrol tank would normally go (not in the boot)
2. LPG should return around 8% better consumption and power over petrol when a latest tech system is used in a dedicated manner.
3. an LPG conversion will pay itself off in 6 months, you will easily halve your fuel bill NOT just break even like you think. even if LPG consumption was double that of petrol you would still make savings because petrol is usually just a bit over double the price of LPG
Westy,
it doesnt matter whether its LPG that goes up in price due to higher demand or hydrogen.
do you honestly think that LPG is the only alternative fuel that will go up in price when demand increases? do you think Hydrogen wont suffer the same fate?
the main thing is LPG is easier to make and store hence i feel it will always be cheaper to purchase an LPG vehicle and the LPG fuel itself.
the only thng Hydrogen will bring is Zero emissions. dont for one minute think hydrogen will bring back 70cents per litre prices. expect an entry price for hydrogen at $2.50.
and by that time LPG will have risen to $1.10 per litre
OH MY F###ING GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sorry, but its simple. LPG will halve your fuel bill. the only people who ever seem to doubt this is those that have never experienced it.
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April 25th, 2008 at 9:30 am
oh and on fuel bill savings,
it has been proven that a territory on LPG (duel fuel) has beat a prius on fuel costs on a side by side test route comparison
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April 25th, 2008 at 10:38 am
China seems to be sucking up all the worlds commodities at the moment - especialy Oil, Gas and Iron ore, and why ?
1. Huge construction project associated with the Olympics - which are close to being completed.
2. To feed the LARGE consumer based westerns economies (ie. the U.S, Aust, and the contries in Europe)
My prediction is that once the Olympics are over (Sept 08), and the U.S (the worlds biggest consumer economy) falls into real resession which is already happening (albeit slowly) - which means people stope spending big time, watch Oil consumption fall, and along with it Oil prices.
We just neeed to make sure the ACCC makes sure that Oil companies pass on the savings when they come again.
Another way to stop people spending is to put Interest rates up, that and our latest Inflation figure of 4.2%(which is also being fueled by petrol prices) means - another interet rate rise is coming !
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April 25th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
as most cars are LPG converted. the tank does go in the boot…….
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April 25th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Anthony C,
so is any other alternative fuel that comes to light going to be duel fuel too? meaning that we would still run petrol and have a hydrogen tank in the boot?
think outside the square.
LPG can be a stand alone alternative fuel.
but even with duel fuel………..
so people will downsize to a small hatchback rather than lose 100L of boot space??? false economy there.
you could throw an LPG tank in the boot of a large sedan and still have more room than a hatch back.
anyway, i say dedicated LPG because it doesnt have to run a compromised setup
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April 25th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Andrew M
what lpg system gives you 45MPG or 5 litres /100 better in costs not better litres.
What is the cost for the system used in the territory that you are talking about?
Where do we get it from?
Does the government grant support it.
I have worked out
My Jumbuck
80lt LPG tank only (no petrol tank)
5 litres /100
= 1400km for about $50.00
I do 9000 km/ year so I would fill up bimonthly
sign me up
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April 25th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Andrew M,
My point is only 3 or 4 years ago Petrol was around or under $1 a Litre. That’s right only that long ago. It won’t be long when LPG also goes over the $1 a litre in my opinion and then onwards and upwards from there. Within probably 5 years even LPG won’t be cheap as you say it is now. So then what ? We’ll all be asked to distill our own ethanol perhaps ?
Once upon a time going back 10 years and earlier I remember when fuel hardly budged year to year but it did increase ever so slightly. The problem is now we can start the year at $1.20 and finish at $1.70. To me such a huge variation doesn’t make sense….although OPEC control that to a large degree by increasing/reducing outputs but they have always done that. Profiteering seems to be what’s happening in my opinion and because we are all soooo reliant on our cars we suck it up and keep paying. There will come a point when many many world economies are in recession the way fuel prices are rising. It mightn’t happen today but you just watch it will bite harder than people can imagine. I know you are talking LPG and sure in the short term I agree it would be worth spending 2K to convert but longer term the same thing will happen to LPG users as currently is happening to petrol users. Currently with the prices of groceries/rent/mortgage payments/kids who has the spare dough if they are currently running petrol vehicles to convert to LPG ?? Not many I dare say. So a 68L Falcon running on unleaded will cost around $100 a tank to fill (given it’s an empty tank) and that’s a lot out of a weekly pay packet. Then groceries, kids bills….etc and imagine at $2 a litre.
Governments are not helping if they were then alternatives would have been researched and promoted years ago. But no let’s wait until everyone can’t afford fuel and then do something…..a lot like general infrastructure. Anyway….that’s progress !
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April 25th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Capri XR2,
the one that was used in the territory i am talking about was a Tartarini sequential gas injection system which is imported from Italy and distributed in Australia by Victorian Autogas Supplies.
that sort of system costs around $4K and yes you will get a $2K government rebate reducing it to a $2K outlay.
they achieved 13L/100k using that system on a territory and keep in mind that it was still a duel fuel compromised setup.
Over the same test route,the Territory used $20.38 of fuel, while the Prius used $20.57.
even the old tech dedicated LPG systems achieve 9L/100k on the hwy.
a “dedicated” vapour injected system should achieve equal or better consumption and power than a petrol fuelled vehicle
keep in mind that the consumption they achieved on the duel fuel (or compromised setup) territory was not even 1L/100k worse than the petrol territory consumption
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April 25th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Westy,
well when petrol was under $1, dont forget LPG was still just under half the price of petrol.
LPG has always been just under half the price of petrol whether petrol be 60c per litre or $1.40 per litre.
so would you rather pay $2 for petrol and complain that $1 for LPG is not a solution?
at least LPG wont be controlled by world oil prices so perhaps if majority of people were to use LPG, the lobby groups would wake up and slam the government for not doing something wabout LPG prices
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April 25th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Andrew M, while LPG will save you a bit of money, it is nowhere nar as good as you make out. In the Falcon, there is about a 5L/100km difference in fuel economy, so theres no way you are going to “easily halve your fuel bill NOT just break even” like you say.
And there is a loss of power. Find me proof of “around 8% better consumption and power over petrol when a latest tech system is used in a dedicated manner”. Maybe with a ECU upgrade and other mods! Do the same thing to a petrol and you’ll see similar improvements. Again, LPG isn’t the amazing product you make it out to be. Good, not great.
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April 25th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
whats happened to the replys they have all been cut short. or lost?
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April 25th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Jbot and other doubting Thomas’s…….
QUOTE……….
LPG provides about 8% more energy per unit weight (LHV = 19,757 BTU/lbm) than gasoline. Theoretically, vehicle operation with LPG should be more efficient than with gasoline, i.e., the vehicle should attain better specific fuel consumption and improved mileage. However, this will only happen if the engine design is optimized for LPG fuel. If a gasoline engine is converted to operate on LPG this increased efficiency will not be realized due to the lower density of LPG compared to gasoline and also its slightly higher oxygen demand (LPG stoichiometric A/F = 15.8). The lighter density fuel displaces air in the intake manifold, and thus, less air per cycle is induced to the cylinders. This translates to a decreased volumetric efficiency and a loss of power compared to the original gasoline rating of the engine.
is that “Proof” enough for you mate?
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April 25th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Jbot,
and just some quick maths on your “halve your fuel bill” doubt
4sp auto petrol falcon = 10.7L/100k
4sp auto LPG falcon = 15.1L/100k
lets say you do the average of around 400k’s per week.
in the petrol falcon it would cost you 10.7 x 4 x $1.45L,
which costs you $62 per week to run your petrol falcon.
in the LPG falcon it would cost you 15.1 x 4 x .68cL,
which costs you $41 per week.
well not quite half ($10 off of half) but it is still 20 bucks back in each weeks budget.
then on top of that dont forget the system ford uses is an old tech system.
if ford used a better system on their dedicated falcon i would predict such figures…….
210kw
422nm
9.2L/100k
wake up ford thats what you need to do!!!!!!!!!
and if you dont believe that is possible, then read my “Proof” above
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April 25th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
sorry meant to predict 9.8L/100k for the 4sp but 9.2 for the 6sp auto
if ford woke up and put a decent vapour system in the falcon we might see this……..
9.8 x 4 x .68L = $26 per week to run your falcon.
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April 25th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Nothing like half Andrew M. 1/4 is not 1/2. And providing “quotes” with no reference or link is no better than your word.
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April 25th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Also, if this was all as simple as you make out, all cars would run on LPG. You nor I understand whats required to make an LPG engine that efficient. It sure as hell isn’t just a decent vapour system!
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April 25th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
5th time lucky
Jbot,
it is actually 1/3 not 1/4
i actually return better than 15.1L myself though.
i switched from a 4.0L petrol 5sp manual falcon ute to a 4.0L LPG 5sp manual falcon ute, and i went from handing out $50 bucks a week at the time for fuel and getting a few coins change to handing out $25 bucks a week and getting a few coins change.
i recieve better than 15.1L/100k. if you were driving 100% city cycle you would prob return 15 odd litres/100k.
even F-O who has just purchased an LPG Ute reports 14L at the worst and it isnt even run in yet
the official Hwy figure for the LPG falcon is 9L/100k and the city cycle is 16L/100k. somehow it equals a combined cycle of 15.1L/100k???????
and as for your link Mr Thomas………
nett.ca/faq/lpg-1.html
^^ put the usual lingo at the front
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April 25th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Jbot,
well when a vehicle with a decent vapour system can return similar figures to a petrol version even whilst still a duel fuel compromise,
i would say it sure as hell is that easy
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April 25th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
who cars about petrol? what about diesel? $1.70 a litre! thats bullshit
ITS ALL BECAUSE OF KRUDD’S PETROL TAXES
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April 25th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
and further to why ford may not have used a vapour system yet in the dedicated model could be due to copyright issues.
i know they were planning to introduce it with BF but they had copyright hurdles. i dont know if those hurdles still exist or whether they just gave up on it.
also incorrect public perception about the product may have seen them evaluate it as not being worthwhile
before i buy my next falcon, im gonna see if someone out there will take a dedicated falcon and put a decent system in it, because ford wont.
im really gonna look into that. I’d rather my donk be tuned properly for LPG with the ideal internals like ford provide, but with the better brain that actually injects the LPG into the motor
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April 25th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Nah Kake its not taxation, its profiteering partly due to the fact that there is more energy in a litre of diesel than a litre of petrol i.e. 39KJ V 36KJ respectively.
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April 25th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
sorry ‘Jake’
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April 25th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Andrew M…..Your wasting your time trying to convince dummies of the benefits of LPG because LPG is the SMART mans fuel of choice!!!!!
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April 26th, 2008 at 4:18 am
NZ prices are now $1.98/litre for BP’s 98 RON with 91 sitting at $1.88.
We can whinge and moan about the way to fix it. It aint going to go back to a $1/litre, so you just adapt and move on.
I would say that on the lpg side, that it too is a limited resource and alternative fuels will come from a man made product.
Bring it on!
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April 26th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Andrew M,
Also don’t forget the Krudd government it set to kill off the subsidy for LPG conversions. Smart government move forcing people to stay with petrol or diesel.
Makes a lot of sense…..not!! Thats progress.
Source : Latest Wheels mag (May08) page 19.
Macca that sounds unbelievable and I agree we soon won’t see it under $1.50 ever again. Once economies start to slide then governments might act on man made alternatives but unfortunately they really don’t give a blot about you or I so prepare for fuel to be skywards of $2.
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April 26th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Andrew M,
It sounds like you mightn’t know about this but from next yeat the government is phasing in an excise on LPG so the price differential will start to shrink from 2009 onwards.
So shortly LPG won’t be halving your fuel bill it might only improve by 10%.
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April 26th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Glen,
mate ive had an LPG vehicle for 5yrs now, so rarely in that time has an LPG article slipped passed me.
i first learnt about the plan to introduce excise on LPG 4yrs ago.
even if you take your 12.5cents and add it to 68cents it equals 80.5 cents per litre for LPG. and also keep in mind that it is only 12.5cents excise once the full phase in has happened which is in another half of a decade away.
i still dont get your stubborn attitude towards LPG. do you still get the fact that even with full excise it will still be only 80c per L???.
so even at 80cents per litre it would cost you $48 a week to run your LPG falcon Versus the $62 per week to run your petrol falcon. its a hell of a lot more than 10%. its closer to 25%…….either way its still a saving.
and thats with the high LPG consumption figures using the old tech system figures, not the proven better figures of a vapour system. a better system ie vapour system will return equal or better consumption than petrol. and then whats wrong with 80cents?
so you whinge about $2 per litre petrol, but dont see a 25%-40% saving as anything?
did you miss the bit where i said a decent vapour dedicated system can better consumption figures of a petrol???
Westy,
so what if Rudd kills the subsidy?
it means you wont pay it off in 6months but rather 12 months.
the smart ones will get in before that deadline.
its like saying no one should buy a house because the first home owners grant will be axed soon.
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April 26th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Andrew M, the problem is with lpg that its still on 157kws versus possible 200kw on 98 with the new FG Falcon. Give me the petrol one, i say. No use having a Falcon if it going to go slower than Grannies Corolla!
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April 26th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
macca,
are you even reading what im saying?
didnt think so.
here it is in simple form……….
a vehicle with a decent vapour system (not the old school carby style setup ford uses) will achieve better power and fuel consumption figures than the petrol equivalent
decent vapour systems have been proven to give an SS commodore for eg actually more power, and thats still on a duel fuel setup not dedicated
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April 26th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
157kw not powerful
When the AU had about 157kw no-one complained about the power and when does anyone use the full 157kw anyway?
Give me 157kw and $20 extra in my pocket per week.
By the way 98ron $1.69 in bathurst, the home of the greatest V8 race
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April 26th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Andrew M,
My point is if it is such a good thing why doesn’t the government continue to back it. Same could be said for solar panels. That was such a good idea yet is being scrapped in QLD. So were water tanks until the government in QLD again decided to scrap the subsidy and then also command people so that they CANNOT drink the rainwater. It all comes down to commonsense which governments seem to lack.
I agree that LPG is probably a good alternative currently but without the government’s support an initiative for all and sundry to get it then what ? It’s what happens after the subsidy is taken off that should be thought about because I can tell you people won’t pay $4K on a conversion as that is a large expense out of a battlers wage. I don’t see any major manufacturers apart from Ford making LPG a standard vehicle option. If it was so good there would be more manufacturers using it surely ??
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April 26th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
I can verify Andrew M’s consumption figures as I have a Egas
AUTO AU ute with nearly 250,000klms on the odometer and it uses approx 16 litres city stop start and gets down to about
11 to 12l/100klms on the open road sitting on 110 to 120 klm/hr. Ba/bf would be more efficient as well as being a manual.
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April 27th, 2008 at 9:18 am
XR2 capri,
you are right on the power figures.
when they brought the dedicated model with the AU series, it actually lost bugger all off the power figure, BUT actually gained in the torque department. LPG is renowned for increasing the engines torque.
the only reason it seems like the FG loses so much power is because Fords LPG system hasnt had any advancements thrown at it like its petrol version has since AU.
it looks like a big loss but infact the petrol version has had dollars thrown at it yet the LPG version hasnt (apart from a little refineing they did for the BF series)
Westy,
why are people paying premiums that can be larger than an LPG premium for a diesel vehicle, when it has now been declared that you wont save a single cent when opting for diesel?
fords system only demands a $1400 premium by the way.
so your only reasoning as to why LPG isnt a reasonable alternative is because other manufacturers dont offer the stand alone option? gee thats a real open minded way to view things.
the other manufacturers do offer LPG but it is a duel fuel aftermarket fitment that they will warrent when it is done by their installer.
government grants are put in place to curb peoples ways of thinking, living and spending.
no grant will ever last forever.
do you think noone will ever buy a house once the homeowners grant is gone?
a grant is put in place to kick start the momentum to a particular way of living. they never last forever
if LPG isnt that good, then how come everyone that has actually tried it, unlike yourself and other doubters say it is really worth it?
every one that pops their head up in an LPG conversation like real cars just has, reckons it is great.
its like saying spinach is yuck with out even trying it to be able to offer a real opinion
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April 27th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Andrew M,
Obviously you disapprove of my having a different view to you. I have to look at the bigger picture and not just spruik a one minded line. Don’t get shirty because I have a difference of opinion. My problem with Governments offering grants for anything is the fact that it doesn’t last. So why promote a grant in the first place if you are going to rip it away. The reason there is a homeowners grant is due to the huge costs of owning a home compared to affordability years ago. That goes for everything. The rainwater water tanks was a perfect example. The WORLD is complaining about water shortages. So governments promote ‘hey everyone get a water tank and help save the world’. Then after it is a big hit and does prompt people to get water tanks they stop paying grants. Then they say and by the way don’t drink that water! What a crock. This in MY opinion is the same as dropping the LPG grants. If it was to help ‘the people’ it should be in place period. Affordability is the key here and we are not all earning 100K+ a year combined incomes so in the real world it is just hard enough paying for food and that is set to increase 50% in the next year for basic fruit and veg.
Everyone here gets YOUR opinion about LPG but what I am saying is not everyone is rich and simply cannot justify spending the money you are talking about for a conversion or dual fuel option. That’s not being simple minded but just a reality of cost of living these days.
My opinion is (and yes I have used LPG in the past so thanks for commenting on something which I have never said as you would know what cars I have owned) LPG is a good fuel choice. My initial response to you, and it still stands, is that lap it up while it lasts with the disparity in pricing. As demand for LPG increases you can expect the pricing to jump just a petrol is now.
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April 27th, 2008 at 11:37 am
im sorry if im seeming a little full on towards your responses, but once again you still dont get my visability point.
even if LPG doubles in price, petrol will too. LPG will always be cheaper than petrol to the tune it is now. hypothetically if LPG hits $2 bucks a litre, petrol will be at like $4 bucks.
think of a LPG conversion as an investment. it is paid off in a year and then it starts to make/save you money.
my main argument on LPG is that it can actually perform better in economy and power if a manufacturer cared enough to put the ideal setup together. ford is half way there, but theirs just lacks the modern brain, and the others run duel fuel which lacks the ideal set up.
The government isnt stupid. they know how to give it to us right up the clacker whilst we think they are feeding us a spoon full of sugar
even the government wont dish out grants if they wont get a return on their investment. think about it.
a government grant to push people to LPG, and before the grant came the legislation mapping out the excise proposed for LPG.
homeowners grant,
generates development that rakes in stamp duty and other taxes for the government,
rain water tanks,
well very soon we will be paying a rain water tax. you dont believe me, just wait and see. i read about it a while ago, and wish i kept the article. they say because we are all catching the rain, it means less in the catchment and hence losing the governmenr revenue from water. also the tax will cover the cost of regular inspections to ensure tanks are keep in order and not breeding mosquitos.
and did you know that even if you have a water tank, you are more than likely still governed by water restrictions in that you cant hose your garden with your tank water
no need to lecture me about not being able to afford something. i didnt exactlly grow up covered in money.
i grew up as one of 4 children in a family where dad raked in a whopping $500 bucks a week to support us. there was also no government allowances
my parents have never bought a new vehicle and prob never will.
just to clarify MY opinion on LPG,
more manufacturers should spend a little more time on LPG dedicated vehicles because i see it as potentially the better fuel choice. the LPG supplies are a lot richer.
also if everyone was on LPG and LPG hit $1, what will the excuse be? they cant blame oil prices, and perhaps the government wouldnt be so powerless to do something about it, because they are powerless aginst petrol prices
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April 27th, 2008 at 11:43 am
and further to the economics to an LPG conversion,
only the well off can afford to buy a new vehicle. if you can afford a newbie, then surely you can afford the conversion.
those who cant afford a conversion, will be buying 2nd hand vehicle, so why not look for one that is already converted eliminating the need to shell out $4k?
PS. LPG conversion strat from $2K depending on how advanced it is. $4K is what you pay for the absolute U Beaut systems
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May 3rd, 2008 at 11:12 am
Fuel prices will continue to rise so get used to it.
Demand is increasing globally. Our fuel comes from Singapore which supplies greater Asia as well. So China will be driving demand. Many experts believe the world is about to hit “peak oil” which means supply will dwindle as the oil reserves, which are naturally under pressure will reach equilibrium. From that point on water needs to be pumped into the oil field in order to extract further oil. As a result output will drop. Demand will increase and prices will sky rocket. Even IF peak oil is not reached for another 10 or 20 years (no one REALLY knows how much is left) it is inevitable.
Consider very carefully which car you wish to buy or you might be left with a really expensive ornament.
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May 8th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Well Milar gets closest to the right answer here but still doesn’t go as far as admitting we’re very likely already into the effects of “peak oil” right now, and Cameron is even more unrealistically optimistic with expectations that it may yet be decades away. Even the most peak-oil denying Daniel Yergin, chairman of Cambridge Energy Research Associates, who “normally is known for optimistic forecasts of lowering oil prices now says the price could rise to $150 a barrel this year” (it’s now already over $120, up from $100 only a few months ago). Peak oil is not just a theory, and by the way it doesn’t mean we’re out of oil, just out of the easy-to-get cheap oil and that demand is starting to exceed availability. The effects of ever increasing oil prices form here on are far greater than just the price of filling your tank. The food at your super market is becoming more expensive not only because it’s transported huge distances by oil, but grown thanks to oil based fertilizers for example. The entire world financial system is in chaos because it’s based on a premise of “ongoing growth” (which allows credit) that is in turn dependent on cheap oil to do the work because nothing else comes even remotely close to its enormous capacity to provide energy at that low price. You will not see governments explain this to you because it’s political suicide. If you want to better understand what’s happening to the world around you, I can highly recommend highly informative sites like “www.theoildrum.com”, or “http://www.peakoil.net/”. Both have Australia specific discussions as well. You will likely be very upset by what you learn, but current events will make a lot more sense. The only hope we have of surviving the coming storm is to start presenting some real information to people. You can help make that happen by learning about these issues yourself, and then passing the information on to people you care about (or even better through public forums). Only if enough awareness is created will governments be brave enough to respond, and we’re rapidly running out of time.
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May 9th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Wake_up_call
you seem to have missed my tone. I am of the opinion that peak oil is imminent, not that it is decades away. Hence I have bought a turbo diesel car. Despite this it won’t insulate me from the pain much more than a regular car as diesel has gone crazy in the last few months.
My position is to be debt free so when the world is in depression because of it’s oil addiction (or overdose as seems likely) I won’t be selling my soul for food.
Sounds rather dramatic, I know, but we just aren’t ready for the impending troubles that await us.
I wish people would switch to purely electric or pneumatic vehicles, while they still require energy, aren’t oil dependent. try dubdubdub.theaircar.com
When it is financially viable to buy one of these cars I will be getting one. With the addition a solar power system on my roof I will have cheap transport.
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May 11th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Thanks Cameron, more power to you for preparing now. I would certainly love to see an affordable all electric that can be powered on fully renewable sources. However, we need everybody to be able to transition very quickly, not just those financially better positioned to do so. That’s where I see the major dilemma, and accordingly I see the financial impact of oil depletion to be the primary disruptive threat in years to come. Getting out of debt should certainly be a primary objective. But only if we can get the vast majority of the population more secure from financial fallout (e.g. make sure everyone can still afford get to a job and buy food) will we be able to avert major disruptions to all of us, whether we’ve prepared on an individual basis or not. The only path forward I see, is to get the message to as many as possible, as soon as possible. That’s where I’m starting to spend more effort now (as well as make any personal changes that can help). Cheers.
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May 14th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Rumor is the air car will be available for around $15000
Certainly a viable option for most people.
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May 25th, 2008 at 8:24 am
I run a corporate transport company here in SA (Smartcar Australia and Hughes Limousines SA)We are using a product in our vehicles that is reducing our fuel costs by 10% to 20% My business partner is a diesel mechanic and a true ‘petrol head’ we have investigated this product at length, The test results, from SA Regency Park test station, show a reduction in harmful emissions, this can be up to 75% I am very keen on improving our carbon footprint.
We have recently won 2 government contracts and there was a huge intersest in our fleet because of our caron foot print.
We purchase the product for $3.50 per cap and each cap we cut in half and use in any petrol, diesel and gas car holding up to 60LT’S ( for larger tank we use full cap )
Even if we see a 10% saving in fuel, it is worth every cent!
We purchaes from www.lessfuellesspollution.com
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