Comments on: ANCAP Ute crash test results

By: ATO-hater

ATO-hater — Sat, 24 May 2008 03:06:03 +0000

checked out the TRD Hilux 4×4 supercharged.
Cost is $60,000.

This puts it over the luxury car tax threshold.
Didn’t Rudd-Labor government want to audit people who bought “luxury cars”?
Would utes fall into this category?

There are Ford and Holden utes that could reach over $60,000

I’m frustrated with Rudd-Labor government and their state collegues taxing us hard working Australians.

I would like to see Rudd do some hard yakka work in a mine, or as a labourer.

I think we need to unite against this silly tax.

Utes are getting more expensive because they are putting more safety features into them. Also, they are getting more comfortable.

Airbags, ABS etc all cost money.
So, is Rudd looking at taxing safety?

Most people who have utes need it for their work.

Does Rudd want us to drive a Mahinda with their substandard safety features.
A dead person can’t pay tax!!!

By: Wheelnut

Wheelnut — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 07:15:01 +0000

Matthew M – I figure if it is allowed to be registered to drive on Australian roads, then it is safe enough to drive.

Not So – I mean the new Fiat 500 is able to be registered on our roads yet we saw what can happen to them in an accident during the celebrity race at the Oz F1 GP..
Crash-Bounce-Roll

By: Wheelnut

Wheelnut — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 06:28:58 +0000

Hilux is not the BIGGEST Selling Utility in Australia… I believe that title goes to the Ford F-350 available from VDC in Victoria.. which going from their ad in Unique Cars is about to be surpassed by the 2008 Ford Super Duty.

If Toyota want to sell the Biggest ute in Oz maybe they should omport the Tundra

By: Andrew M

Andrew M — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 23:21:34 +0000

ah TP,
the guy who has never driven a ute nor LPG nor diesel vehicle yet claims to be an expert.

surely you would know that LPG vehicles have higher torque and reach both power and torque at much lower revs.

you are batting above your weight here pal, i suggest you move on

By: Andrew M

Andrew M — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 23:18:53 +0000

F-O
good to see you are loving the new LPG ute.
yep a dead set bargain there mate.

i too would expect you to get slightly better milage. forget fords official figures, they are wrong.
15.somethingL/100k no way.
on h’wy the LPG is capable of sub 10L/100k.

in my LPG ute i get 14.5ish/100k towing 1 tonne of gear behind me at speeds no greater than 60kmh (thanks to the 20kmh speed reduction on the back road grrrrr)

By: TP

TP — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 23:15:25 +0000

Ah AndrewM Hilux stories…. very believable… it wouldnt have anything to do with him flooring it and the Hilux taking it easy. Simple fact is, you want to tow, you look at a Diesel with low down torque. Not a LPG powered Falcon.

By: Andrew M

Andrew M — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 23:12:20 +0000

Dlr1,
a mate and i each tow around 1 tonne.
when we stop at the lights with him behind me, i easily take off and pull a fair margin on him.
1 set of lights i am particularly thinking of is on a half decent hill.
i kow diesels make their power and toque a little lower, but they dont climb up the tacho as quickly as the petrol motors do.
from what ive noticed the diesel doesnt start to take off untill you are in at least 2nd gear

By: Dlr1

Dlr1 — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 23:03:35 +0000

Andrew M, i would agree with most points raised. But would probably note that hilux’s 3.0TD would probably do just as good a job shifting the heavier loads with its peak torque available from only 1400rpm. Probably better at low vehicle speeds, eg stop start traffic ect?

And F-O, am currently driving a BA ute on LPG, trip computer always averages 15L/100 but not really sure how accurate thay are. And why would you want a Holden ute with a bench seat? A matress in the tray is much more comfortable. (hahaha)

By: Frugal-One

Frugal-One — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:53:23 +0000

$27,990 driveaway on a 03/08′CabChassis Falcon [auto, 3 seater, LPG, air, 8" tray, trip computer, tow bar etc]

Bloody things are bargain.

Very happy with mine, only early days though!

Average is 14L/100km on LPG, should get it lower as it frees up.

Cheers

F-0

PS Message to Holden Ute “Bench Seat Please!!”

By: Andrew M

Andrew M — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:42:16 +0000

and on the last gen Lux,
yes it was a bit lighter.
the cabin in the new gen Lux is much much better fitted out.
they now offer standard duel airbags etc which is a big step up from none. also the dash material is much better and looks a hell of a lot more solid than the old gen.
also there was some work put into sound deadening etc too.

i would rather a better cabin than an extra 100kgs legal capacity if it meant your drive was a little more comfortable.
it was a good move by toyota anyway.
i think they had a look at why people were buying the aussie grown utes.
the falcon ute dominated sales right through the AU series right up until recently. i think toyota cottoned on to that people want a vehicle that is better to drive even if it is just a work hack.

and why wouldnt they want to cater for the aussie buyers a little more?
i heard a little while ago that australia takes the biggest load of jap comercials than any other country.

perhaps also why the next Ranger platform will be designed here too

By: Andrew M

Andrew M — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:34:16 +0000

Dlr1,
ive been with my mate as we put 1/2 a metre of gravel on his lux.
i’d have to look up the exact weight of the load but im guessing about 750kgs.
even the lux starts to hang down low before you reach its limits.
in my experience with utes, you wouldnt like to take either model to their 1 tonne limit too often. i reckon 750kgs is what should be the comfortable limit.
yes they can technically take 1 tonne, but you wouldnt want to do it every day whether it be a falcon ute or a japper.
if you were wanting to lug 1 tonne day in day out you would be better off with getting a lazy axle fitted or opting up for a F series or a Dyna or a Hino or an Isuzu etc.

the main difference between the 2 and load carrying is that the grunt of the falcon will actually pull the load along with a lot more ease.
the 2.7L lux motor just wont pull the actual load like a falcon will. even if it did legally carry 400kgs more, whats the point of putting a motor in it that will struggle.
the V6 is a bit better, but it still falls short of the falcons grunt and the japper V6’s absolutely chew the juice. i dont know whether its the V6’s you drive but even if you know someone who drives one im sure you’ve heard them tell you they aint good for mileage
the diesel option does improve the economy dramaticlly but the 3.0TD motor still falls a long way short of the falcons power and torque stats

the other reasons why the falcon handles better can also be put down to its foot print on the road.
the falcon has a wider track and longer wheelbase etc.
also the bigger wheels on the falcon would help too.
and then there is the much better seats etc like you have already mentioned.

By: Dlr1

Dlr1 — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 13:21:37 +0000

Andrew M
Yes the current hilux (3/05 on) has piled on the kilos, the previous series (RZN149R) weighed in about 250 kg lighter. Kerb weights around 1200 or so depending on options.

Mitsubishi also quote payloads around 1300kg on base model tritons. Base Rodeos in similar ballpark. I do also agree that the falcon does ride better than these examples.

I do drive both BA / BF one tonners and similar Jap models on a regular basis. While it may be anecdotal I do find that the Jap utes do carry the (heavier)weights a bit better. While Ford does rate the cab chassis at one tonne the springs seem to be capable of not much more, where some of the jap utes carried similar loads without dragging their tail quite as much. I know its not exactly a scientific argument, just my observation when carrying loads of around 1 tonne.

cheers

By: Andrew M

Andrew M — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:22:02 +0000

Dlr1,
mate firstly thanks for a civil discussion.

i still dont totally agree though. i went and scratched up a few figures……….
the GVM of the hilux and falcon ute are the same.

also the falcon and hilux weigh in at the same.

well technically speaking the hilux weighs in at slightly less, but A/C isnt included in the hilux’s weight as they dint fit it as standard gear whereas the falcons weight includes A/C and climate control. also the falcons kerb weight also includes a larger fuel load.

the hilux cant carry like 200-400kgs more

the true load carrying ability of the falcon is 1240kgs. an alloy tray adds 120kgs.
therefore the falcon ute can carry 1120kgs on a maximum fuel load.
so as you see unless you are a dairy cow, the falcon can carry over 1 tonne. even if you factored a steel try it would still scrape over the 1 tonne mark (but i assume only just)

by the time you factor all the extra weight gains to put it on the road, the hilux can only carry about the same.

ive driven cab chassis falcon utes and cab chassis hilux’s (and other jap utes) and the falcon will still easily out handle the jappers

it was unintentional to single out the hilux, but its the first one that came to mind.

By: Dlr1

Dlr1 — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 10:50:32 +0000

yes, i probably didn’t phrase that correctly, but the point that i was making is that the jap utes have much stiffer springs generally than the falcon, and given their lighter tare weigh (empty) they do bounce around a little more. But as i mentioned so do Falcons when you modify the rear springs to increase their carrying capacity to a similar level. Many of the Jap utes can carry 1.2 to 1.4 tonnes legally when fitted with an alloy tray, the best the ford can get unmodified is 1 tonne in similar configuration.

By: Andrew M

Andrew M — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 07:33:12 +0000

Dlr1,
that isnt the “one” reason why.

there are plenty of reasons why the falcon and commy utes are more comfortable.

the base model falcon ute that is rated at 1 tonne does ride a hell of a lot smoother than a one tonne rated jap ute.
you can also get 1 tonne springs on the style side variant of the falcon

By: Dlr1

Dlr1 — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 06:00:55 +0000

Andrew M, the one reason the local sedan based utes handle or ride better is because they have much lower carrying capacities. The Commodore ute with IRS can’t carry half what most jap ute’s can. The Falcon cab chassis can only carry one tonne when equipped with an alloy tray. Put a heavier steel tray on and its capacity drops below 1000kg. There’s the compromise. Ride V Load Capacity. Put a set of heavier springs under a AU/BA/BF Cab chassis and an empty alloy tray on the back and they ride like a pig too. But atleast they have better seats.

By: golfschwein

golfschwein — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 12:12:47 +0000

More astonishing logic by TP: “…the Ford platform isnt even liked by Ford itself in the states!”

Goodness!

Who approves every generation of Australian Ford? The RSL?

AndrewM, I was once given a Hi-Lux SR5 as a company car in the Pilbara back in 1991. It was tough and well finished but, Omigod, the gearing! I ran it from the Nanutarra roadhouse to Paraburdoo at 140km/h with the air con going flat-out one day, just to show my contempt for it and the company who bought it because they thought I’d like it better than my VL wagon, and it returned 18 miles per gallon. After 250 km, it was time to fill up. Nice result for a 2.2 litre manual, I thought.

By: Andrew M

Andrew M — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 12:03:09 +0000

you constantly say the Hilux is the best ute. i have never seen any text that constantly backs that up, there fore its your own quote, and therefore you are unable to comment on such qualities as you have never driven one

i dont care what anyone says, but jap utes drive like a pig compared to a falcon or commy ute, and you must have rocks in your head to think otherwise

ok so where is your quote that the americans dont like the falcon? pfffffft

keep your childish bickering comments to yourself

By: TP

TP — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 10:59:54 +0000

My claims never included ‘I have test driven these vehicles’ did it AndrewM? The fact is unbiased sources are making the claims I quote, I will go off that over a biased source such as yourself. Afterall the Hilux is sold worldwide and had worldwide success, the Ford platform isnt even liked by Ford itself in the states!

By: Andrew M

Andrew M — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 10:22:37 +0000

and surprise surprise,
the guy coming to the defence of of a toyota product is Dingo with yet another name change after his previous attempts to gain any sort of credibility under his many previous names.

also guys, if the BT50/Ranger is so hopeless, then how come they outclassed the hilux in the 4×4 ute of the year?

actually, when did the hilux last win an award?