Honda to sell 400,000 hybrids a year by 2013
March 19, 2008 by Alborz Fallah
With all the controversy and talk about hybrid .vs. diesel surfacing recently, it’s worth noting that car manufacturers have long ago picked sides. Some are going for both, a full diesel and hybrid range, the French have combined the two, coming out with a diesel hybrid, the Germans, much like the rest of the European manufacturers have for the most part stuck with diesel.
The Japanese on the other hand, can’t get enough of Hybrids. Toyota is currently dominating the world with its 8 model hybrid range. Its closest competitor is fellow Japanese manufacturer Honda, who is hungry for a bigger slice.
Honda has announced plans to sell three new petrol-electric hybrid models to achieve an earnest annual sales target of 400,000 cars by 2013.
The models will include the new CR-X (100,000 sales p.a.), a specifically purpose built Prius killer (200,000 sales p.a.) and the all-new Civic Hybrid (100,000 sales p.a.).
Currently Honda’s total global hybrid sales only account for 1.5 per cent of its overall figures, the aim, make it account for at least 10 per cent (which is about 400,000 vehicles).
It’s not going to be easy to break Toyota’s stranglehold on the hybrid market, but many other manufacturers are also trying.
Volvo (amongst others) has already shown, with its Recharge concept, that it can make a car which practically uses no fuel. General Motors is doing a worthy job and even Porsche has joined the hybrid race.
To make it even harder, Toyota announced last year that it will push to reach 1 million hybrid sales by early next decade, helped along by suggestions of a new hybrid-only brand.
But just how much will demand increase for hybrid cars to fulfil sales targets? Or more importantly, how much will hybrids improve?
According to research by Japan’s Nomura Research Institute, the global market for hybrid cars will increase 300 per cent to 2.19 million by 2012, making it feasible for Toyota to sell 1 million hybrids with the rest splitting up the remaining market.
Nonetheless, which ever way you look at it, the 400,000 figure is more than ambitious. Honda only sold 55,300 hybrid cars (globally) last year (Toyota managed 429,000). The most common hybrid car is the Toyota Prius with worldwide sales of around 1.25 million in total.
Print it: 
*****PRIMO!*****
They came late to the party and not a patch on BIG-T, none the less they are #2 and miles in front of any others.
We all know *others* are going the crash the party soon enough.
Hybrids want to be costing 10% more, like diesels, the current price difference cannot be saved in fuel use reductions, its done to make a *green* statement.
The winner in OZ is LPG, end of story [SO F'n happy to be back with LPG, i missed u so much over the last 18 months]
Cheers
F-0
Obviously the pressure is on for Hybrids to get onto the market fast. Until someone proves to me the worthiness over a diesel engine then i’ll stick with the diesel.
So far Hybrid’s are more expensive, have a greater environmental impact over their lifetime and are unproven in saving on fuel running costs.
They will however save you £8 per day for driving in central London, as I live 400k’s away am I bothered. Nope!
When the day comes I’ll happily jump into a diesel hybrid when i drive in the city.
Hybrids are like Global Warming – a total myth and the worlds greatest con.
However, the statement that the Germans are largely going with diesel is absolute crap.
BMW is working on Hydrogen, Mercedes has perfected Li-Ion batteries for use in hybrids, Porsche/Audi/VW have worked out how to put the electric motor into the drive train seamlessly.
But it’s true none of the Germans have put a half-baked vehicle into production like the Prius, and no-one has lied about the credentials of their vehicle to the extent that Toyota has about theirs. It’s astounding how much crap is swallowed by so many people. The thing they all have in common, is they have unearned income to spend, be it taxpayer’s funds, extravagent movie royalties, inheritance, etc.
(No sour grapes here about anyone’s income, the movie stars work hard to get their break. But after that the cash rolls in to a disproportionate level, and they start to believe in crap like Prius, or Scientology)
Reckless you say they havent lied or whatever as much as Toyota… only recently BMW had an advert going on about how they are great for the environment because they have Diesels. Did they mention Diesels consume more oil? Have emissions which cause more harm? Wake up, they are all car companies trying to make money… at least hybrids are weaning us off oil which is quickly running out, what does Diesel do? Both are cons, but Diesel is PURELY a con, hybrids at least have some relevance.
Of course Hybrids are more popular in Japan as they haven’t got anywhere to drive the bloody things. It’s once around the block and back into storage. You have only got to see the age and mileage on Jap grey imports to see they hardly use their cars.
words of wisdom from TP once again!!!!
How do Diesels consume more oil TP when Diesel is less refined than Petrol and Diesel engines are more efficient?
Does PIRUS have a petrol engine TP?
Diesel a con TP – Nah petrol uses more fossil fuel per Km than diesel.
You keep stating that the big D uses 25% more oil to produce than petrol. I don’t believe it, prove it as I have that a given volume of oil produces a number of components that produce derv, ingredients for petrol, various gases etc etc. I proven that. you have not proven that it takes 25% more oil to produce the big D. Go on do it before your supper turns up dude.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^They wont with that car!!!!!!!!!
^The top pic!
Does Honda have a crewcab? Is it the ridgeline? Becasue they are losing some sales on the market because they dont sell a crew cab in Australia.
How much more energy does it take to refine petrol compared to diesel TP???? PLEASE educate us!!!
TP,As soon as you can tell us that we can tell you how much less crude a diesel uses!!! cos a according to you diesel is 5% more efficient….you say it takes 25% more crude to make diesel and we all know that diesels are 30% more efficient so tomorrow at school you do the math!! and then you add the extra energy needed to refine your poison and then we’ll compare poisons..OK!!
Oh and don’t forget to add the cost of Benzine cos you love that stuff don’t you???
Carl I already did the Maths on this, your wrong. 30% more efficient then a petrol engine, WE ARE TALKING DIESEL v HYBRID. They are literally even in fuel consumption, so given Diesel requires 25% more oil, its quite simple, its worse!
TP – WHere does this mythical figure of 25% come from. Tell us we want to know. I think its rubbish and fgure made up by you. PROVE IT PLEASE. I know you cannot.
TP, then you admitt that a diesel hybrid with a similar size to the Prius will be more frugal than the Prius….you just admitted it!!!
“Unfortunately, Department of Energy modeling shows this fuel to be more oil- and carbon-intensive than reformulated gasoline. Each gallon, for example, requires 25 percent more oil and emits 17 percent more heat-trapping gases than gasoline reformulated with MTBE (the formulation used in our report), and requires 17 percent more oil and emits 18 percent more heat-trapping gases than gasoline reformulated with ethanol”
“The improved efficiency of diesel engines can also help reduce oil consumption. It should be noted, however, that it takes about 25% more oil to make a gallon of diesel fuel than a gallon of gasoline, so we should really look at how a vehicle does on fuel efficiency in terms of “oil equivalents.” Thus, we need to adjust the mileage claims for diesel vehicles downward by about 20% when comparing them to gasoline-powered vehicles.”
Silence?
Thanks TP – I’ll checkit out. But at the end of the day as a consumer, diesel might cost 5 or 6% more but goes 30% further. So like someone says 30% further less 25% more oil (possibly) means a 5% saving of oil consumption using the big D.
I know TP i’m being cheeky. cheers dude.
So the Peugeot 308 hybrid will (according to you) be 10% greener than the “amazing” Prius!!!
No but as I said 30% more efficient then a regular petrol, we are talking diesel v hybrid. A hybrid gets the same fuel efficieny, so it is ONLY a Diesel using 25% more oil!!! But yes conumsers dont care, that is why Diesel will be popular, but as I have said in terms of whats best for the world, Toyota are doing the right thing and manufacturers like BMW are in the wrong (not that they do it for us, but we indirectly benefit from their desire for profits, while with BMW we gain nothing). PS No Name you just got done didnt you!
Sure whatever, the Prius is due for an update very soon, the new one will only be even more efficient. Regardless your argument with that is ridiculous, Im not saying the Prius hybrid is the best hybrid, have I! I HAVE ONLY BEEN SAYING HYBRID > DIESEL. Get it Carl?
TP,
mate the bottom line is what does it cost us each week.
Compare apples with apples that’s what’s fair.
Tell Toyota to make an E-Gas Prius and then it’ll deserve real respect!!! Not dual fuel with a tank in the way but a proper LPG only Prius would be sensible… maybe too sensible for Toyota
So whilst everyone else in Australia is buying diesels like they are going out of fashion, Toyota are prepared to watch the at the expense of not seeling their own cars!
Thats good marketing sense. My guess is that Toyota will in the near future put their fairly good diesel engines in your local cars to make a short term buck at acurrent trend. They would be blinkered not to!
TP – you’re an expert apparently!!
definition of an expert then: -
Ex = something that was
spert = a drip under pressure
geddit drip under pressure…Only joking mate see yah ;)
TP – Have a look at this dude. ;)
Yes CARL….Ford make LPG only motors and Toyota fairies dont! The Toyota Pullers are tugging hard on R&D which they are doing….but to not do a dedicated LPG only motor is ordinary!
No Andrew.M you cant say that now when its convenient. At one stage the Ford camp says its all marketing by Toyota, yet clearly the likes of Ford and more so, BMW, who talk about Diesels environmental credentials, are purely hyping it up. No future for it. Bad for environment. Consumers more oil. But yes people will get Diesels because they are generally cheaper to purhase, in terms of fuel efficiency though yes they are the same, but still cost more because diesel costs more!
TP,
what cant i fairly say?
that at the end of the day people care about what it costs them?
you just said the same didnt? you when you said “people will purchase diesels because they are cheaper”
people are dollar driven end of story.
people dont care if LPG means a 2L or so spike in fuel consumption because it will still halve the running cost.
people dont want to out lay the ultra high premium for a hybrid when they can get a small diesel that is better to drive for 20K and costs the same to run if not cheaper to run than a hybrid
Yes Andrew but if you put your classes back on, people like yourself have been attacking the Prius and Toyota as a marketing gimmick… but now that I clearly show Diesel is the biggest gimmick of them all, you people fall back on ‘oh oh oh its what consumers want’. So my last post was merely agreeing with what you said, but noting how your trying to bypass one argument which given the evidence I provided yesterday, clearly shows another example of Ford fairies displaying their complete lack of knowledge for anything other then Ford.
sorry but im really not getting your point.
how is diesel a gimmick when it is half the price of a hybrid and can match if not better its running costs?
and then comes the biggest part with diesel you totally missed………”driveability”. but then again i wouldnt expect you to demand that in your vehicles
TP Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
No but as I said 30% more efficient then a regular petrol, we are talking diesel v hybrid. A hybrid gets the same fuel efficieny,
So you’re admitting the prius has no green pretences at all. Mmmm not good for a car being sold as a green solution to motoring.
And I guess you agree with both my comments 1.56am and 3.40am above. Thought you would cos you know i’m correct.
Yeah, thats right. Happy Easter over yonder mate!!!
No Name how did you get to that? It consumes less oil, thats an environmental positive. It emits less harmful gasses, thats an environmental positive. And for consumers, its cheaper to run. Unless your points made earlier were similar to mine, then I dont agree. Remember I totally proved you wrong re the oil it takes to produce diesel, I think my credibility in this discussion is through the roof.
Andrew.M the gimmick relates to its environmental credentials. Just like anti-toyota people said the Prius was a gimmick for the environment, because the likes of the 520d can match it. But sorry as Ive highlighted, in terms of the environment, the Hybrid is second only to hydrogen cell. Disesl is left faaaaaaar behind.
TP,
i think you are getting a bit carried away,
diesel is still better for the environment in terms of co2 emissions
AndrewM that is just an ignorant comment… better in CO2, worse on oi… worse on other emissions. It is not better, simple as that. The time for Diesel is past, oil isnt going to last much longer, we need electrics and hydorgen, not Diesel.
I second the bleeding obvious that we need electrics and hydrogen and not diesel (I have stated this before).
WHY IS THIS SO….
1.Diesel is short term supply and short term answer
2.Electricity is medium to longer term answer
TP….its daytime and Iam on here, dont confuse yourself and comment when rarely on at day hey! Happy Easter dude. Iam on your side on electricity and hydrogen as only answer medium to long term!
Worse on oi?
Prius is Toyota’s cleverest car and I have a lot of time for it. I wouldn’t decry anyone for driving or owning one of those or these new Hondas on their environment credentials. I would hope that nobody would do the same with my decision to run a Golf Diesel. Yes, it consumes oil, but less of it.
But right now and for many years to come, every car is reliant on finite elements ripped from the ground, no matter how “green” their makers tout them to be. Will there be a world disposal site for battery packs in 2040?
Nm…My daytime reference relates to weekdays, people who are here during weekdays aernt workers… they are kids.
Golf you nitpick oi, you say consumes oil but less of it… you are wrong, it consumes about the same oil as a petrol. Rough example, a hatch will consume 7L or so per 100kmk in petrol form, a Diesel will get say 5L at. So 30% less fuel consumption, but considering the 25% more oil required, its only a net effect of 5% less oil. Consider a hybrid and the difference is massive. I have no problems with Diesels in the very short term, but the problem is and people here dont seem to see it, is that manufacturers are now focusong on it as the environmental solution, the recent BMW add to this effect made be cringe. Total BS. Diesel is very short term, because it is better then a regular petrol engine, but as hybrids become more common they really will be obscelete, and I dont think its going to be long till this occur, within 10 years I believe.
Well, what’s out there? Anyone driving a hybrid, turbo-diesel or LPG car is doing their bit as far as they’re concerned. At 5.5l/100km, I’m doing my bit. I feel pretty good when I fill up after 850 kilometres of town driving, regardless of arguments lodged regarding refinement processes, particulates emissions and so on. I’m aware of all of those.
However we do our bit, there are shortcomings, whether it’s those listed above or in the manufacture and disposal issues of battery packs of hybrids or plugging into the mains for pure electric.
How do you do your bit?
Golf,
well im doing my bit by running LPG at the moment.
and to be honest it isnt any silly green credentials that gets me onside, its the massive dollar savings!!!!!
i dont really care that LPG is 80-90% cleaner/better for our health than diesel and petrol. yes that is nice to think of it that way, but in the honest wrap up of how the world runs, every man only cares for himself.
i surely wouldnt be running LPG if it was still as clean as it is, yet 2 times the price of petrol. no one would. and why? because the world is dollar driven. the only way the government can change it is use a “Tax shepherd” to force people to where they want us.
the biggest thing for me when i buy a car is, is it great to drive, do i enjoy it, etc etc etc.
i would much rather drive a small diesel at half the purchase price. its gonna cost about the same to fuel as a hybrid and to be honest it will be about as clean as a hybrid for the environment (and lets not go splitting grams of Co2)
Yes Golf I have no qualms with that, at this current point in time the majority of people are using hybrids, so Diesel is the lesser of two evils. But a hybrid is still the most environmentally friendly. What worries me is manufacturers such as BMW claiming Diesel is somehow a solution to the problems we face, when its clearly not. We need people buying hybrids, the more people buy, the more incentives there are for manufcaturers to invest more into it and then develop better hybrid and ultimately, electrics. On the other hand if people get into this Diesel BS then we have more investment into Diesel technology, which might be great getting the consumption down further, but ultimately it wont be good enough, we need to be completely off oil within a few decades because it will be gone, realistically though I think if the technology exists already for it, we should get off it within 10 years and save whatevers left for essentials… remembering oil is used for more then just oil, so when its gone, we may be in some strife, best to stop useage where we can (cars).
AndrewM you dont get it regarding Diesels and emissions, its not all about C02, but it appears this is beyond you. Various studies have highlighted the harmful gases that a Diesel emits, not necessarily harmful for the environment… but more diretly to humans!
remembering oil is used for more then just petrol/diesel*
To address what Im doing Golf as well, I car pool… I only drive on weekends and not much either.
Cool, TP. I live in the inner city outskirts, so try to walk to most places. My annual mileage has reduced from 25,000 to about 17,000.
Nm…My daytime reference relates to weekdays, people who are here during weekdays aernt workers… they are kids.
Gee TP u don’t get out much do u? 20 years old and haven’t popped your cherry yet eh?
I thought I knew it all too when I was your age so I empathise.