Fantastic win for BMW. My 525i is getting a little old now, perhaps the 520d is a good choice? Advice? I am still not sold on diesel, too noisy for me.

oh where are the toyota excuses?? was the wind not blowing to the north? or better still lets just talk about lexus….. which story will it be this time???

Goes to prove with all the fuss about hybrid, short term diesel is still the better bet!

Well, no suprises there, numerous places have done this test – in fact I remember one local aussie car show(might have actually been “The Car Show”??) did this comparison last year between a 306 diesel and a Prius for a days driving around Melbourne. Both cars covered about 120km, and the deisel did it with about 0.5L/100km less than the Prius-you-money-from-your-wallet.

I am seriously considering a deisel for my next car – looking at the Mazda 6 (though it seems that will be delayed!) and the Octavia…

Maybe Diesel hybrids are the way to go

Is anyone really surprised? The Prius design is over 10 years old. The 520d was created two years ago. On top of that, the 520d is about twice as much as a Prius!

What I would very much like is for everyone to realise a few things:

1. Hybrids are not divine creations that are the answer to all our problems.
2. Hybrid != Prius.
3. The Prius is essentially a first generation design so it’s inherently unfair to compare it to the latest and greatest in automotive technology which have over a century of development behind them.

Reminds me of a simpsons episode where a celebrity is driving a go kart that is powered by his own sense of self satisfaction knowing he isn’t hurting the environment.

i drive an octavia diesel as a work vehicle and get 5.0l per 100klms! i have just gotten 1200klms to a tank. i havent seen a prius get that!

Well, Hybrids aren’t the answer everyone was looking for… Looks like the Europeans have got it right again, Diesel is more efficient.
Not to say that once some decent battery technology comes along we wont see a whole bunch of electric cars that will be much more efficient than anything else out there.
But not today, and not in the near future.

^^^ sorry but the anti spam made me re-send^^^

What annoys me about the Prius is the belief that the people own drive them and those who admit them, that they are saving the planet, almost reversing the effects of global warming.

I thinking someone should combine fuel saving technologies, twin charge (VW) a small capacity Diesel (BMW) Hybrid (Toyota) with aero dynamic blue motion (VW)

i know carl the prius driver didnt hold his fingers in the right position on the steering wheel or it was they tyres fualt, or maybe the fuel octane was 97 octane instead of 98…. there will be some excuse!!!

Mitch VW’s twincharger is not as economical as expected although the bluemotion is a great car….

The 2.0 and 3.0 diesels in the BMW 5 and 3 series are underrated and receive far less attention from the press than they deserve, particularly compared with the Hybrids.

Having said that, Toyota will launch a new Prius next year, which is supposed to feature more efficient batteries.

For both cars there are other environmental impact issues besides just L/100km. Diesel cars emit more CO2, and the Hybrid batteries must still be disposed of after 10+ years. There’s no super-efficient way to recycle batteries.

For those interested in buying a 320d, I drove one in Europe and it is very impressive; in Australia obviously you’d be paying a little more than what the car is worth; it goes for significantly cheaper in Europe, but the engine is still a gem; it pulls strongly from low down, and isn’t too bad up high but clearly you’d feel like you’re missing out a little compared with a true BMW straight six. If you can stand the clattery noise at idle, it would make a very nice car indeed.

mmmmmmmmmmwwwwwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaa,big kiss for BMW !

I dont get the point of this… no sh*t a diesel can be more fuel efficent. But it consumes MORE oil. Releases WORSE emissions. And in the BMWs case, cost TWICE as much. Im going to knock a FPV GT because a Ferrari is faster? Thats the same logic being applied here, fogetting that Diesels in general as Ive just said aernt great, I bet similar priced Diesels to the Prius aernt as great.

Sorry correct myself, 2.5 times the price. Mind you offical ADR figures have the Prius as 3L per 100 more fuel efficent, ADR must have a made a huge mistake in their own CONTROLLED tests!!

TP, go and take a 1.5 Yaris for a test drive and you’ll realise that the windscreen sticker claiming 6.7lt/100k’s is totally impossible to achive and that’s the only TEST that counts!!! all the other tests can be shoved up you know what!!

if Toyota can be honest and admitt that they lied to me about the petrol consumption of that 1.5 engine and apologise then i’ll stop bagging then but untill then they’ll have to cop it sweet just like i have to cop it sweet when i fill up it’s tank!!!

I don’t know if anybody else has said this, but you would take the BMW over the Prius everyday of the week, you can’t compare the two when it comes to comfort and handling.

TP, you really don’t know or understand much do you. Quote: “ADR must have a made a huge mistake in their own CONTROLLED tests”
Ummm…. Toyota conduct the test and give the results to the relevant Govt dept. just like every manufacturer does. And yes they can be and are all optimised results.

You are back TP!

Thats a surprise I thought your Mummy would have chased you off to your car bed by now?

Tp but many cars can and do achieve the quoted figures in real world driving, I know at least two of my cars do. The Prius, however never seems to be able to, but hey it’s good for the advertising, juts like the 200kw that never reaches the (front) wheels because traction control limits it (Kluger and AWD honorary mention here).

I have already told u I have got a sixth grade education so I am through with primary school!

Funnily enough, I actually admire the Prius after driving one shortly after their release. The styling might have garnered more acceptance if adorned with Citroen’s twin chevrons and the way the engine and battery combo works is really faultless. Great interior, too.

Driving it is more fascinating than exciting, so I’d still take this Beamer or my Golf in preference, but I think it’s Toyota’s best and smartest car. Calculator slaves, do your thing.

I refute the words from a primary school student Realcars, the category you fit into.

You must be a real social butterfly TP with that attitude of yours? How does your boss go when he tries to teach u something? Must be very frustrating.

I am going to make some entries during the day tomorrow TP just to piss u off! I will do it from my laptop with next G.

I agree that official consumption figures are difficult to achieve in the real world. The AS2877 test is uniform, at least, so can be used reliably to compare to other cars. Achieving the figures is another story.

My Golf’s official figure is 5.5l/100 kms. The best it’s done is 5.3, which was on a trip, and often does 6.5 with the air-con and turbo spinning around town.

Golf,
dissagree a bit on the reliability of the comparison on the AS2877 figures. A soon as you put anything in a car (passengers, real world contents of the average boot) the torque characteristics of the engine etc can change the result dramatically. eg put 4 adults in a Falcon and it won’t suffer as much as a Commodore or heaven forbid a 4 cyl Camry, but idling in heavy traffic and the scenario is reversed for the small capacity engine.

Oh yeah, I agree with that, Bret. What I meant is that the test itself is uniform and everything is assumed equal under test conditions. Therefore, for comparison purposes, it’s all we’ve got and it’s as good as it gets.

Real world? Make your own luck.

FULLY AGREE TP COMMENT FIRST PARAGRAPH….March 18th, 2008 at 7:07 pm

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha – TP you really are an ass. It black and white the Prius with all its environmentally barbaric batteries is beaten fair n square by a big DIESEL burning 2.0litre 4 cylinder monster.

And the DIESEL DOES IT AGAIN –

“OH WHAT A FEELING” whilst i’m choking on the Prius exhaust fumes that contain 15 health hazardous pollutants

Bret, put 4 people into a Aurion and it will not suffer as much as a Holden Commodore, Holden Epica or even a Ford Mondeo. Better still, load up a twin turbo charged 4.5 DI V8 Diesel Cruiser with 5 people, luggage and a trailor and it will not suffer as much as a Falcon.

Bavarian, people have been abusing TP with foul language so i was wondering if you have been reporting this to Alborz or you only do that when it has been aimed at yourself and partners. I believe i am correct suggesting you are a HYPROCRITE – like i have been saying all along.

Congrats to BMW!, but yeah the Prius is on ancient Hybrid tech (as said before its a 10yr old car, probably amazing back then, but in today’s time its just a piece of hype when it comes to fuel economies) being remarketed over and over again, Toyota should actually continually improve their hybrid systems.

Hows the Honda Hybrid compare?

Also in terms of greener mobile, Diesel is more Noxious than Petrol so you probably mightbe contributing less Co2 but you may be contributing to some health killing pollution.

Longreach Dongo – that Toyota 1.6 diesel engine found its way into the Mini D for a year or two buit was then dropped in favour of a faster more economical french PSA diesel from the same era.

Yes toyota does do a reasonable range of diesels, not a good as other. The UK Toyota Auris has a 135Kw diesel good for 8.1 to 100 164 g/km 400Nm. Its a good un.

The Hybrid thing is not currently economically viable or the best environmentally. Yes all manufacturers are jumping on the band wagon but the sensible ones are going to be using a diesel hybrid not a petrol for greater economy as the article clear and unambiguously proves. Citroen have a d-hybrid called the C-Cactus (silly name), GM have a D-hybrid can’t remember the name, they are also producing the next medium to long term proposition diesel electric cars. This is not a hybrid but an electric car with a small electric generator to top up power. This will no doubt be the next thing on the street before Hydrogen power.

Joober – Petrol also contribute to NOX and have 15 health hazardous chemical in it. Take the vapour, so toxic and carcogenic and explosive that new petrol stations are being constructed to recover it. 2nd stage vapour recovery..look it up.

Modern diesel produce little soot due to particulate traps and after burning in the exhaust. The catalytic convertors are installed to remove much of the NOX produced to slighty higher levels than petrol. So neither are good for human consumption full stop. Petrol/Diesel pollution will continue until such time all the fossil fuels are expended.

Yep Bret I know its cooled down which is great for you guys finally.Wheelnut has said he is going to swing by the light display on the way back to his place .

Dingo……..name calling is one thing but you go to another level!

Reckless1, I was having a go at TP because he uses SHYTE to get around the moderator!!

Bret – every single car manufactuer advertises but some are better then others. You go on about propaganda yet people like myself and a growing proportion of the population have had a gut full of Holden/Ford propoganda. .

For years Holden has advertised itself as an Australian Company but the fact is … it’s not – 100% American owned.

When the VE was released Holden hyped the model up so much it was ridiculous. First they tryed to convince us that it could challenge the very best in the world without mention of price, that it will rival the Japanese for quality and reliability not to mention that it will be Australia’s safest locally manufactuered car.

That said, lets be seriuos here … firtsly the VE struggles to compete against other locally biult cars let alone that of the worlds very best, it has been riddled with quality glitches and recalls just like any other Commodore model while the official NCAP tests rated the Aurion higher not to mention the latest WHEELS edition of Active Safety.

And while i am at it, how many customers do you reckon Holden inform that they about to by a Daewoo … !!

And lets not forget to mention that Holden and Ford have advertised for generations that thier cars are manufactuered for Australian conditions yet every Quality/Customer Satisfactin surveys (as with common knowledge) prove that Falcons and Commodores are infact amoung the poorest quality and most unreliable vehicles that can be brought from just about any showroom floor.

So… have you ever considered that a growing portion of the Austrlian population have had enough of all the bullsh*t propaganda – ooops, advertising that has come from the likes of Holden and Ford and not living up to expectations.

That should give you something to think about for a while.

Reckless1, i’m not a ford lover i’ve had many different makes and they’ve all had good and bad points…My current Falcon has many things that i would change but it’s an honest work horse and that’s all i expect of it so in that regard i’m happy with it’s peformance as the family TAXI!!

The only other Ford product i would seriously consider is the Mondeo wagon diesel to replace my e-gas Falcon when the time comes.

Blanks NM???? Hope not how is a baby Wheelnut or BM ever going to happen if thats the case????

How the hell did we go from Prius & BMW to Holden ?

Bavarian … you are every bit as giulty as the next party which does make you a HYROCRITE … PERIOD !!

I assume that you HAVE NOT reported the bad behaviour towards TP today and guided by your own stated expectations i would have only expected that you did.

My point made clear on the matter

cheers

Realcars … because they can and thats what reputation does for a company which is what every manufactuer strives to achieve.

In return, answer me this – why is HSV trying to ask inexcess of $125 000 for nothing more then enssentially a dated tech 7.0 V8. Refering to the W427 and lets be frank, they wont be able to !!

No Name … i ask you this – WHY are there so many manufactuers jumping on the hybrid wagon specially considering some of them were initialy be the biggest critics of such technology in the first place.

Some people critise Toyota for thier advances in such tech yet they reserve to pass the same critism towards BMW, Mercedez Benz, Honda, Nissan, GM and/or Ford.

Why is that considering they are ALL trying to achieve the same results. I would love to see a comparison of any other hybrid from any other manufacter and see how they fair compared against expected fuel consumption.

Tell you what Dingo I would dig up the posts you have formally insulted me on along with others but Alborz deemed them to disgusting to leave on the site,enough said……..you have a problem with Alborz and the guys banning you from my suggestion take it up with them,most on this blog so far see you as nothing but an insult. You go outside the name calling ………

Not interested in talking Holden Fords Dingo on a blog thats about BMW nailing a Prius……..

Summing up…
Pirus = Ripoff,
Toyota = Masters of spin.

Hell this post has gone off in such a little time!

Anyone flick from the pic of the BM to the Prius and back again………hell that Prius is UUUUUGGGGGLLYYYYYYYYYY! If BMW can make a car more fuel efficient than a Prius thats designed to be as economical in all aspects including exterior,then why cant Toyota say make an Aurion do the same?

Arrrrrr,BMW the BEST engine builders in the world,high five,SLAP!!!!!!!!

The majority of the criticism towards the Pius is not just because it uses polluting batteries, because the betteries are a necessary evil in this interim technology but because Toyota is too lazy to develop a fuel efficient engine for the Prius and just wacked an old guzzler from the previous Echo/Yaris regardless of wether it’s petrol or diesel that 1.5 engine is a guzzler and that is the problem with the Prius…. the rest is quite brilliant even if pig ugly!!!

Carl – that’s just it … the Prius is efficent and not a guzzler by any term. Infact, it is a frugal car and proven so. This article stated a 900km journey was routed by no mention of the kilometers traveled in the urban, open road or what the terrain was like. The detail of the journey is vague and undescripitive.

I’ll be confident to search and find a multiple of comparsions were the Prius has excelled.

The engine used in the Prius is up to date as any other equivalent example while Toyota hybrid technology is regarded as the most developed.

Critism can be found in any car or manufactuer eg – Lexus is able to rival BMW and Mercedez Benz is just about every facet yet charge literally tens of thousands less so what has BMW been doing to the world for so many years … RIPPING OF THE CONSUMER !!

Would this comparsion represent everyday life in every senario across the world … NO !! Like i said, the Prius is predomiantely purchased and utilised as a urban car and not only is that it’s specific designed function but also were it achieves it’s intended purpose.

Dingo, i agree the Prius is frugal but that engine is not it’s letting the rest of the package down as i have stated i have a Yaris with that engine and it’s very very thirsty….vvt for what it is it sucks up 10 litres in my Yaris in the city every 100ks and 7 on the highway just imagine what that Prius would do if it had say…a smaller engine with a small turbo or if it ran only on the electric motors and a small diesel engine to generate the electricity!!!

Bavarian … not only just my opinion but also FACT yet you hate that truth with a passion.

When it comes to quality, refinement, attention to detail, reliability and certainly value for money – yes indeed BMW and Mercedez Benz are the followers of Lexus… ooch !!

That smell … hop up and have a look, it’s coming from you – AS ALWAYS !!

oh yeah … and noooooooo i was not. You claimed last week you knew how i was banned so PLEASE … enlighten the rest of bloggers with your wisdom just so i can prove you WRONG !! AGAIN

Aww come Dingo you’re being short sighted now – Hybrid is the medium term solution to the fuel/environment crisis. Its only reasonable that all manufacturers will exploit a market. BMW have a fleet of Hydrogen powered cars undergoing research probably like Toyota. My guess the reason they have only recently taking it serously is the European Union legislations requires an average co2 output to be achieved by 2012. I think it is 150 CO2′s per Km. also the fact that the Hybrids are not all as sweet as we are supposed to believe according to the Oh So Green Prius.

Gee Dingo u have the same one eyedness as TP when it comes to Toyota.

This comparison shows that Toyota have been resting on their laurels with the Pirus and it’s not as environmental as the spin would have us believe. Another example of how “ordinary” their vehicles are!

I believe like TP u have been brainwashed by the Toyota Hype. People really believe it when they buy a Toyota and it is like a self forefilling proficency with the illustion only shattered by a catastrophic failure of the Toyota they buy. It is quite a phenomena as Toyota owners are very forgiving of their cars as a result even accepting and glossing over failures that occur due to wear and tear that owners of other makes would not tolerate as acceptable.

It is akin to the process of hear say becoming fact.
Say it over and over again and people will eventually believe it despite scant factual evidence of superiority over other makes.

THe Toyota brand has been built with a reliability mantra and the Pirus brand is being built with an environmental mantra. If they hear it enough most will believe it.

Someone once said “Even a broken clock is correct twice a day” So Toyota’s aren’t all perfect and all the other car’s aren’t all crap!!!

“so you are effectively agreeing that hybrid technology is the argueably a atlternative solution for the medium term … THANK YOU VERY MUCH !!”

I never disputed this, all I have ever thought and stated above is that Toyota (and others) have been pulling the wool over the punters eyes stating the Green credentials of the prius and other hybrids when it is simply not true. FACT

“oh yeah, will the hybrids from BMW, Mercedes Benz, Nissan, Ford and GM be classified as ‘GREEN’ or just those from Toyota …. mmmm !!. I have never said this, I reiterate that Hybrids are not as green as they are being sold whilst they have a fossil fuel engine. Beleive this and you you’re being suckered big style. It is catagorically proven that a modern diesel even in a larger vehicle can out perform a Prius (presumably other Hybdirds as well).

Its a fair comparison I think. But people should remember that diesel has always had this advantage.

Also, as someone pointed out, diesel is still not the answer for motorists pass 10 years from now… even 5 from last evaluations.

But for now, I know a lot of people, especially driving big cars, use the diesel variant.

About the fuel consumption figures everyone has access to. Well, technically… every manufacturer has failed to live up to their claims in a consistent basis. Many factors add to that.

Back on topic, if you had the money… its not even a question which you would pick to drive for the next few years. But still, don’t count “hybrid” out, as I can say that almost all manufacturers have vehicle projects using some form of electric engine…

dingo, i agree that hard core one eyed fans of anything are unbearable and there a lot of Ford, Holden and recently Toyota fans that can get too arrogant but your right to say that Holden and Ford fanatics were the first!!

But that doesn’t make it right to copy them in being one eyed cos if Toyota get the feeling that their fans will buy any crap just because it’s got a Toyota badge then they will go down the same route that Holden did with rebadged Daewoo’s or Ford with previous poor quality products….and look how long it’s taking Ford to turn that image around!!

^^^sorry meant just all fossil fueled cars cos hydrogen is obviously not a fossil fuel^^^

good to see this has gone the way of the other toyota blogs…. full of twists and turns about hybrid, hilus, trd and then lexus!

I have come to the conclusion that toyota fans are worse than holden fans…. they truely believe there own bulls#$t.

Here is a comparison that proves hybrid AT THE MINUTE is a croc of s#$t yet we still argue!

How many more articles are you toyota guys going to see about quality and reliabilty slipping and the hybrid not being as green as you all say before admitting there on the slide!

I dont come on here cause it frustrates me to death and the car talk is rubbish, not the caradvice guys fault, but just a couple of guy get on here that are prob stay at home dads that think there car experts…… i have a skoda octavaia tdi in my shed at the min ad have done 3000ks in it in three weeks, average fuel consumption is 4.9l per hundred klms and most of that driving has been at 100klms on highway.

You can crap on that diesel is not the soloution, but there is methods around not using oil to produce diesel, short term diesel is still the way to go, and even greater than that is when they work out a cheaper battery soloution, is a diesel hybrid, something toyota will be too arrogant to do!

Dingo…. you have insulted everyone on here that doesnt agree with you yet carry on about BM… maybe you should back off, im totally frustrated hearing your half baked answers, maybe if you backed off a little and listened to other you might find you can make some great friends off here, i know i have and we all arent biased, just enjoy driving!

Tonyn, Toyota has turned it’s back not only on diesel except for big 4×4′s but also LPG!!!

And don’t dismiss the opinions of stay at home dads cos someone has to rise the kids instead of farming them out…i have a friend that is a chef and became a widower about 3 years ago and has become a full time dad and i still regard his opinions just as valid as when he ran a hotel kitchen!!

in fact he’s more up to date on current events than i am and i respect his work more than i do that of say the CEO of Maquarie bank.

Hey Tonyn……what can I say babe but seems yet another blog off topic and full of the same old same old,hope you have been well.

Carl Dingos problem with me is that he cant admit when hes wrong,him and I go back to the Hilux rollover problems where he wouldn’t admit even I got one of the Engineers from Rio Tinto here in the West on the blog to confirm they had been banned on mine sites.Dingo is a diesel fitter not even in upper management in the mining sector yet he argues with those that are,tells you a lot.When cornered by me and Cobra045 he started insulting me with disgusting rants that most of the guys at the time said it stepped way over the line.As I have contact with Alborz directly I informed him of Dingos posts where Alborz informed me he had got rid of him,and too let him know if he returns.Have I told Alborz hes back yet,nope! Tonyn,AndrewM,No Name,Godspeed,Jbot,NM,Wheelnut{obviously}280zx,Watto,Cobra045,David n,I have direct contact with along with some of the other guys on the forum. Dingos problem seems to be with himself,something none of us can help him with we have tried to get on with him but he continues to return fire with nothing but insults thrown in with stats and his own personal feelings.If your a member of the CA Forum you can contact me through there or I can ask Alborz to give me your email address!

Dingo says…….

Bavarian … not only just my opinion but also FACT yet you hate that truth with a passion.

When it comes to quality, refinement, attention to detail, reliability and certainly value for money – yes indeed BMW and Mercedez Benz are the followers of Lexus… ooch !!

That smell … hop up and have a look, it’s coming from you – AS ALWAYS !!

oh yeah … and noooooooo i was not. You claimed last week you knew how i was banned so PLEASE … enlighten the rest of bloggers with your wisdom just so i can prove you WRONG !! AGAIN

um Dingo still your opinion on Lexus…..oh and me smell!
Here we go again,not even going to reply keep going on the lines at me and I will once again get you banned .Stay on track BMW-Prius ! Is that possible ?

BM, i don’t just judge a persons caracter by what friends they have but more importantly by their enemies!!!

So your safe in my eyes because from what i’ve read in the short time i’ve been on this wed site and in my humble opinion your friends make alot of sence and your enemies are full of it!!!!

These tests aren’t surprising. The Prius is the most overated car ever built. So if the Prius gets done by a family sized diesel sedan, imagine what the diesel Focus or Golf does.

those ADR tests are a guide only. Yes they may reached those figures in ideal test conditions but those conditions are not even close to real world. You can only go off real world figures and even then you have to take them with a grain of salt. Personally I’d take a diesel over a hybrid anyday. I don’t wanna pay $8000 plus labour to replace all batteries if one fails.

Yes GM, Ford, BMW etc may be developing or have released hybrids of their own, but its because there is a market for gullable people who think if they own a hybrid they are saving the planet. And if that market is growing you’d be stupid for not being part of that segment. Hence why Ford built the Territory. Ford notice SUV sales increasing but mostly in metro areas were the 4×4 will never see dirt so Ford designed a car specifically for metro areas but had the extra height and look of an SUV, and it was succesful. Its not that they needed to build it but if they didnt they were missing out on the market of soccer mums bying their urban rigs.

well said glen!

Theres nothing like a blog about Toyotas these days to get peoples blood boiling. Such a thing would be unthinkable a few years ago. Perhaps now that they sell more than everybody else all the knives and petty jealousies come out. From all sides.

And all this from an article about 2 cars that aen’t even in the same category except for fuel consumption. The 320d here sells for double the prius price. In the uk the difference is 10 to 13 thousand pounds. (20 to 30K AUD)

And at the end of the day there still isnt a single car that anybody could call green when you consider the amount of energy, oil, metals and chemicals required to build it in the first place.

Tonyn, Will do, and yes i’m in Sydney but will be checking out house prices in Adelaide this weekend either way when i’m ready to buy i’ll let you know!!

yeah gone into vw and skoda too, a bit of variety never hurt!

I started my career with VW and now i have the chance to work across the brands in a managment role! ive always had a soft spot for the VW brand, so its good to work with all the brands under there umbrella!

Longreach dingo I didn’t expect u to understand as u and TP only take what u want out of an argument. Toyota are experts at propaganda and perception in the market place. You must admit that most of their cars are very average in terms of styling,handling dynamics, interior trim etc.

Lets face it the other Japs like Honda/Mazda offer better product in every class!Even Subaru offer better alternatives to some of the Toyota lineup. And how could anyone buy a Camry over a Mondeo? The mind boggles!

I recently helped a friend look for a new car and done all the dealers. Honestly the Toyota lineup is so bland and uninspiring. Drab interiors aplenty and boring external styling as well. It’s as if Toyota don’t need to try anymore!

I agree. With Hyundai now rising out of Asia Toyota’s new found arrogance and complacency may be it’s undoing!

If I was after a car that was dull and boring I may as well buy a Hyundai at half the price of a Toyota once u factor in the cost of extras for the equivalent Toyota. I think u will find many cardigan wearers doing the switch over the next few years.

Hmm!! “we thought we would try and educate a few of our readers with some real world figures”.
What real world situation is 80% highway, 20% city driving? Not mine by a long way. 80% city 20% highway would be much closer to “average”. This I am fairy sure would tip the scales back much in favour of the Prius. Toypta should build the US Camry hybrid at Altona. It is much better looking and much faster.

1. Its a hyundai
2. Its a smaller car

3. Waaaaaaaaay less features

Please list some of these features TP?
safety -t -cell, anti Landcruiser intrusion bars?
wheels, brakes, tyres and a steering wheel?

I agree wheelnut, people preferences vary from people to people whether its styling,handling dynamics, interior trim people buy things they are comfortable with and suites their requirements. its like expecting everyone to like F1 racing over NASCAR, A1 etc, it may be the forefront but it aint everyone’s cup of tea.

Yep its a give and take with anything, nothing is for free, one mans fortune is another mans misery.

yeah Bio Fuel ain’t the answer.

Running a myriad of electric motors and alternators in conjunction with a petrol motor ain’t the answer either.

A most efficient light duty internal combustion engine(diesel) charging a battery via an alternator running an electric motor only drive would have to be the way to go with the back EMF charging the battery during deacceleration.

Apply some Boolean Algebra to design a digital cct to optimise and control the speed of the diesel engine under various load and levels of charge.

Run the diesel on a combo LPG arrangement.

Can’t be that hard?

Do you think this TP charecter has actually sat in the drivers seat of a prius and achieved the ADR figure that he believes the prius can do. So many tests have proven that “real world” figures the prius is beaten by a range of diesel cars. Maybe he lives in a world that doesn’t have friction or companies who bullshit or brains!

please get this TP
and don’t try calling me a child because i am not a child i have driven a range of economical cars including peugeot 306 diesel, civic hybrid and toyota prius.

i don’t usually put my two cents in but there are some twats out there that need to wake up and smell the petrolium