Speed camera tolerances reduced to zero

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By Brett Davis | March 25th, 2011

According to a recent Fairfax report, the State Debt Recovery Office and the RTA are looking to reduce speed camera tolerances from the current 3km/h margin of error to a zero tolerance. This could mean drivers could be fined for travelling just 1km/h over the limit. If the public needs further proof that speeding fines are enforced simply for revenue raising then this should be seen as the final straw.

A government report from December last year, apparently leaked from the budget committee, says it will remove the specific tolerance – a figure not disclosed – saying it will eliminate the “internal and undisclosed tolerance as applied by the State Debt Recovery Office to digitally captured infringements as notified by the RTA”.

We’re sure loads of motorists will be distressed by the move. A senior police officer even expressed concerns in the Fairfax report, saying that motorists who simply changed their tyres to a larger tread depth – putting off the original speedo calibration – might start getting fined for speeding just a few kilometres over the limit even though the speedo appears to be displaying a legal speed.

This not only puts pressure on motorists to keep their cars as original as possible, but manufacturers will have to start developing extremely accurate speedo readouts. Manufacturers may also have to start supplying specific instructions to owners stating that the car must remain in its standard trim throughout its entire life, even going as far as supplying a very specific tyre brand and size.

What happened to the Australian Design Rules (ADR) specifications that allowed a 10 percent margin for error on speedo readouts from the factory? Well, apparently the RTA and the State Debt Recovery Office aren’t interested in manufacturer tolerances either. Luckily, the ADR standards have since changed so that all vehicles from the factory must readout a speed on or above the actual speed of the car.

So far no date has been announced when this tolerance change will take place – if any announcement will even be made.

supercujo

This is in complete opposition to the ADRs which allow a 10% error a cars speedometer.

aspirant

Incorrect, the ADR does not allow for positive tolerance, i.e. the speedo must not show speed higher than the actual.

HP

I’m guessing you meant the speedo must not show speed lower than the actual?

aspirant

Yes, you are right.

Hector

wow

I wonder which old fart at the RTA authorised/agreed for this to go through

get used to it people – unfortunate bi-product of an aging population full of boring old farts.

Yonny

Smells like the work of Dr Soames Job to me. He’d have us all doing 25 km/h if he got his way.

What do we need to do to get rid of these bureaucratic, money-hungry, nanny-state, terroristic parasites?

Sumpguard

Smells like the work of a greedy ,cash strapped government to me!
Lazy Toyota

Publish their home and work address, phone numbers and see how they like taking personal responsibility for their idiotic proposals.

SZQ

i say we should send NATO’s army on that tyrant

Chili Dog

I don’t think the North Atlantic Treaty Organization would care in the slightest, us being in the southern hemisphere and all.

eskylid

ahh, welcome to the age of accountants!

Mikey_94

This is just ridiculous! Next i’ll get fined for changing the stereo in my car, or having new windscreen wipers installed :\

Marty MacFly

Coming next is,no speed cameras at all,as they will be made obsolete by gps based systems.

Then its really going to suck.

DGS

Well, time to dust off the old Morris Minor 850. It will be about the only car safe to drive if you want to retain a drivers licence and a bank balance.

Wait for the next installment. they will be issuing parking fines to comuters stuck in the traffic jams caused by highways being designed for Australias 1970′s population levels.

http://Nissan Kazuo

ah ha, u r giving them ideas.
topdog

This has already happened to people stoped in a no stopping zone, When clearly they could not move forward

DGS

When I wrote that I did not actually think they would stoop that low. Thank you, you have enlightened me to the fact they kind of already have.

svd

Marty – Sorry to tell you this but GPS systems are only accurate on the flat as a GPS system measures a plan view of speed only. Currently systems in vehicles do not register altitude so therefore cannot compensate for going down hill or uphill.

Eric

Wow learned something today.

al

it should not happen …
who do we need to address our concerns ?
state MP ?

Alex II

Gladys Berejiklian is the shadow minister for transport.

Andrew Stoner is the shadow minister for Roads and Ports

Start by faxing them
Macca

Another option is for everybody to defend every speeding ticket they get and start clogging up the courts. Sure it may cost you for the court costs but it will add pressure to the justice system and send a message to the government that the public won’t tolerate stupid rules

Alex II

Implication for the motor industry will be huge.

I purchase a brand new car from a Dealership, drive out onto a 60 km/h road with the speedometer needle at 60 km/h and receive a speeding fine for travelling a 62 km/h, is this an issue for the manufacturer to deal with? Has the manufacturer produced a vehicle I cannot possible obey the road rules with? Will the manufacturer have to produce vehicles with exact speedometer readings or publish the margin each speedometer is incorrect by? Of even more concern will be vehicles sold through the used dealer network, will speedometer calibration and correction become a major consideration when purchasing a car? If I am test driving a vehicle before purchase and using the same scenario as above, can I sue the dealer for not providing me a vehicle I can obey the road rules in?

The other question is how can one Government Department implement a set of standards another Government Department can just ignore?

Rks

It may not be that big a deal for the manufacturers. For e.g. my vehicle actually ahs a digital speedo that reads ~ 10% (but not exactly 10%) higher than the real speed. I have checked with numerous GPS units. So to keep up with the traffic or to maintain 60 kmph in a 60 zone, I have to do more than 60 (indicated) on my vehicle, but since I don’t know the perfect callibration factor, the actuall speed may be around 60 (may be 58 or maybe 62). Now if I get fined for 62 kmph, who is going to be responsible? No problems for the manufacturer here! I am stuffe now for sure

http://Neptune Rabbit

Which is safer?

(a) Concentrating on your speed as you approach a safety camera intersection

or;

(b) Concentrating on possible hazards as you approach a safety camera intersection

The RTA need a swift kick up the ass, and the government need to pull their fingers out of the revenue from this. It isn’t safety, its profiteering. The difference between 60km/h to 63km/h is nothing but trivial. Ultimately, I’m guessing the quotas for this year aren’t matching the projected revenue expectations huh?

aspirant

Oh please, will this ever end?
Government approach to speed regulation is one thing and I think we all agree here that it is heavilly geared towards revenue raising. However the complaints about speed control have reached the ridiculous. It is one of the basic driving skills required to glance at the speedo (and other instruments) at regular intervals, you should not get adriver’s licence if you are not able to do so. No matter what the speed limit is, the close to it you travel the bigger the risk of exceeding. From my observation, if the perceived camera speed tolerance is +5km/h, drivers tend to go close to +5km/h. I also believe that this is mostly done deliberatly not just by drifting.

Homer

Agree totally re regular check of instruments and rear vision mirror etc but wait til you get your first ticket for not glancing at the speedo regularly enough. If you are watching your speedo so often that you never drift over the limit, then you are not watching the road enough. We’re not talking about an open stretch on the highway, it’s every street, maybe a school zone, decision time, speedo or errant kids.
Steven

Yup agree. I can hold a steady speed no problem but downhill is more difficult and that is where most of these rats lie in wait.

BMW

I think we should take to the streets like Libya for this

DGS

when democracy can not work (because the people who make these desisions are above democracy) what other options exist to evict these people from office?

F1MotoGP

Where the people fear the government you have tyranny. Where the government fears the people you have liberty.

Homer

If minority groups, shooters and greens have seats in parliament, how about a motorists party? Hey, there are 5 – 10 million (?) of us and the majority don’t like the disguised taxation by state, read federal, governments.

Nath746

Does anyonw who works for the RTA actually drive a car? maybe they should, just to know what it’s like… You know, might help them make better decisions…
Homer

The motorist is being raped by bankrupt State Governments. Rego up, petrol up, license fees up, transfer fees up, luxury car tax, parking meters everywhere and near compulsory speeding fines. They get away with it because it’s just a bit here and a bit there, it’s robbery by stealth. If there is to be zero tolerance then more people will die, because more people will be concentrating on their speedo than the road. Texting and talking on phones is illegal and dangerous. What about spending half your time looking at the speedo?
Ima Hogg

Honestly.
Whats next? Illegal to drive a car.
JD

i wonder if the people at the RTA get any exceptions
Mean Dean

speed cameras are evil and I hate them…mmmm actually correction the proponents of speed cameras are evil and I hate them. These people only care about money making and pretend to be concerned about safety. SAFETY – RUBBISH…Speed cameras are unsafe!!! We have to be so focused on our speeds that our eyes are not on the roads but on our speedos (speedometers). This is crazy.

My simple fix is place more police on the roads… its common sense… visability of police presence is a big deterent and i’d argue reduces criminal activity. Detering criminal activities might ultimately be a less expensive option.
Cheers
Mean Dean

PS…These policy makers in this country are short sited, politically correct, wealthy beaurocrats who have drivers driving them around or drive like miss daisy on sunday mornings attending church.

Homer

Dean if you’re in NSW there’s an election tomorrow, stand, you’ve got my vote!

nickdl

Well that’s unfair and would be unlawful unless every car had a digital speedo, which even still, would not be accurate. I love it how the State Debt Recovery Office is teaming up with the RTA, revenue raising much?

What’s worrying is how Victorians will pay for the white elephant desal plant, will we become broke like NSW and need even more ridiculous speed camera laws to pay for it? If so New Zealand seems like quite a nice country…

Wayne Kerr

+1 for NZ. Not only do they allow LHD cars imported from the states but their houses are affordable too. Exchange rate looks good too.

UMWHAT

i don’t know what it’s like in other places but from Gold Coast to Brisbane and viceversa you always have to be wary of SS Commodores they’re the favourite among undercover cops

Robbo

@UMWHAT it’s more than SS Commodore’s, I live in that same area and it’s everything from WRX’s, Ralliart Lancers, 300C’s, Golf GTi’s, Avalons, and more – even older Falcon Ute’s with canopy’s. I ride a motorcycle and even they have unmarked bikes like Triumph’s and GSX-R’s. It’s become too hard to spot unmarked cops, which I guess is their aim!!!

I remember years ago a NSW minister wanted all unmarked cars for highway patrol off the road, saying seeing police presence slows you more than just seeing the odd person getting booked. I agree, you see heaps of cops you slow down. But this stupid speed camera phase will not go away (except for GPS based systems as mentioned earlier in someone else’s comments).

Bastards!

Andrew

Bikes as well? Holy shi*t…

I’ve seen an VE SS ute with a ‘Clarion Audio’ sticker on the back. Sneaky bastards

Rick

Wow, if this change comes in NSW will have to inherit the “nanny state” mantle from Victoria.

I’ve given up trying to understand these bureaucrats thought processes. Take the new Victorian P plate restrictions. Instead of being something logical like power to weight ratio like they used to have, they are now trying to maintain a database of over 15000 vehicles, going back decades. This has lead to some weird results such as;

Volvo S60 T5 R-Design with 177kw – approved
VW Golf R32 with 184kw – approved
VW Golf 118TSI with 118kw – special approval required
VW Polo 77TSI with a STUNNING 77kw – special approval required.

“Yes Minister” come to life….
Pauly

Can someone get rid of the people in charge who make these rules? They are just full of old people from an aging population, with stupid old ways of thinking.

Any bets they think a car built of a steel, with steel bumpers (like in the olden days) is a safer car then a modern car made of plastic and crumple zones.

Idiots.

http://CarAdvice Gazza

Unfortunately must of these ideas spring from 70-80′s Generation who are now in a position of power..

They are total control freaks who WILL tell you how to live all aspects of your life.

We as a community are gutless.We write words but do nothing!!

Maybe we need to have a National Speed Day in protest..every motorist turns on there headlights in protest and commits to being 5 kmh under the posted speed for 24 hours.

Hit them where it hurts..in their treasury hip pocket.
nickdl

I’m pretty sure all of the corrupt NSW cops who were on Underbelly are now out of jail and at the RTA. The government must be handing them a little bit of money on the side for creating these laws. Let’s hope the NSW Liberals won’t be like Ballieu when they get in power tomorrow. One of the first things he did was to add speed cameras and go back on his promise for extra police…

MF

I dont think speeding a few kilometers should be fined at all. But very HEAVY fine should be applied to those speeding way too much.

For example, in a 60 km/h zone.
0-5 Km/h over = within tolerance
5-10 Km/h over = warning and/or demerit, but no fine just yet.
10 km/h – 20 km/h over = Obviously ignoring speed limit: 10km/h – $100 fine; 20km/h – $500 fine.
20 Km/h and over = UNLESS you have bloody good reasons (like the terrorists installed a bomb in your car, and you must travel at 80km/h or above otherwise the bomb will explode!), you should not be given any mercy. $1000 fine minimum!

nickdl

How about if the fine goes only to charity, maybe for families of victims of the road toll; or it could be for funding advanced driving courses in younger drivers. Well if the government said no to that we would only be more certain of their position on speed cameras…

MF

yea dat would be even better. However i think the heavy fine for overly speeding without good reason should still be applied. There are way too many idiots on the road who speed for showing off purpose.

Lazy Toyota

prize for stupidest post yet. The Hume needs a 150+ limit to prevent fatigue/distraction deaths, most extra urban roads limits are stupidly low.

MF

Then raise the speed limit, but dont raise “speed limit tolerance”. Do you understand the difference?

B

Balancing the speed on a tight rope. A gentle tail breeze will see you 1 kmh over the limit .
Falcon_crazy

Interesting RTA wants change – not cops. So Speed Cameras have no tolerance, yet Cops do – which is great of course!

Ditch speed cameras and install more Highway Patrol Officers to catch the real fools on our roads.

Anyone ese want to move to the Hutt Province?
Steven

More dedicated cycle paths so I can cycle to work in safety please.

Roger Ramjet

As long as you pay full rego and have your own liability insurance no worries!

Family Guy

This attitude confuses me. If more people cycle…
There are less cars on the road, motorists win.
There are less demands on petrol resources, motorists win.
There is less wear and tear on roads, motorists win.

Rego… it’s not exactly the cyclist fault they don’t pay.
Insurance.. join bicycle NSW (or Vic) for $20m cover, most cyclists I know are covered.

And forget the cyclists running red light etc, I see far more motorists flaunt the laws than cyclists.

I’m a motorist and a cyclist.
Ray of Bris

Did you even read what he posted? More cycle paths = less bicycles on the road = less annoyance.

Darcy Dunbar

Time to stake a stand, people!

We are being treated like fools and milch cows by all levels of government.

We’re supposed to be Australians living together in this great country but the disdain, verging on hatred, coming from the various governments and fat cat public servants towards the general populace is becoming intolerable.

I suggest we all drive 5kph below the speed limit and see what they do about it! It will make their revenue-raising speed cameras a waste of money and the big-noting individuals in the RTA who dreamed up this draconian scam will be frustrated.

nickdl

Or we could just do what they did in Arizona and take to speed cameras with guns… Well, considering we’re a bit more civilized maybe something a little less violent…

JEKYL & HYDE

what about a challenge to the graffiti gangs in aus,to see who can “paint up” the most…

john

no we all should have a civil disobedience day and everyone agree to travel @30km/h and ensure pollies are captured in the traffic jam. the traffic jam created would be incredible and more importantly it would screw the economy. That would make pollies listen. If there is no response continue for a second day and so forth. Within a week we would have the limits we deserve, not what the pollies need for revenue raising.

garry

You need to get the truckies involved if you want to see some real action. If all of the truckies protested by not driving for a week the country would come to a grinding halt!

Tas

If we drive under the limit they’ll just lower the speed limit.

http://Www.holotropik.com Technofreak

OMFG!!
This is just plain stupid.

What is even more sad is that we will let this happen.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the courts. I know I will be fighting this crap if I get caught doing 2kmh over. Bloddy stop I’d this!

So p*ssed off right now!!
Car Fanatic

That’s funny. The RTA want to punish people for breaking roads rules, yet their inspectors can do what they like. Seen today in Hornsby, no right turn into RTA sign on pacific highway. RTA inspector waiting to turn right into RTA during peak hour, he caused all sorts of traffic chaos.

I might get a job with the RTA so I get special road privileges too.
Kieran

I will happily accept this, if and ONLY if speed limits are revised to more realistic levels for modern cars; e.g., BMW (anti-spam word!)

I’m willing to bet that we’re getting pretty close to the practical minimum of fatal accidents that can be avoided by speed policing alone. Next target: fatigue. Set dual-carriageway speed limits at 160km/h, single-lanes at 120km/h, and keep residential areas as they are. This will allow drivers to reach their destination sooner, reducing the number of hours behind the wheel. It goes without saying, that these higher limits should be enforced more strictly to combat idiocy.

Then, extend the shoulder of single-lane highways so that there is room to allow for adoption of a brilliant South African road rule: “give way to any vehicle moving faster than you”. This works brilliantly, as it almost entirely eliminates the frustration of being caught behind a dawdler (they just get out of your way), which will also reduce the number of frustrated drivers taking huge risks when trying to overtake these slower vehicles.

toxic_horse

Sounds logical. the only problem is, if you crash at 160kph you have no chance.

Kieran

This is true. My suggestion assumes that Australians aren’t careless drivers, and will actually pay very careful attention to others around them. Of course, looking at the way a lot of people drive on our roads, that unfortunately may not be the case…

So that leads me to think, are we – as a general population – bringing this nonsense upon ourselves?
Unfortunately, the ones who should be asking themselves this are the same ones who are least likely to be CA readers!
Devil’s Advocate

not much different to if you crash at 100-110km/h toxic…

toxic_horse

no actually the difference between crashing at these two speeds is huge.

Leyianart

Driving in a piece of crap from the 80′s and 90′s with no airbag’s, no stability control, bad chassis build and crap handling.

It is huge, but with modern cars these 110 speeds are nothing. Also if you crash a modern car at 110km/h for sure you were doing something besides driving. Our roads that allow 110 are basically strait lines.
Devil’s Advocate

The difference to the damage of the car etc at that speed is huge, but if any car hits a solid object that doesn’t move head on, you will die no matter if you are travelling at 100 or 160. The human body can only handle a certain amount of “G” and an impact into a solid object at 100km/h pretty much exceeds that.
Of course there are other mitigating factors in crash dynamics etc that can effect the result, but that is the same no matter what speed you are doing. After all, there are more than one way to crash! Sure, the margin for error at 160 is A LOT less than at 100, however the chance of being a fatality of an impact at those speeds isn’t that much different at all.

Wayne Kerr

If speed camera tolerances are now zero, then motorists’ tolerance of the RTA can’t be much higher.

V for Vendetta anyone?

Shak

I suggest we start a petition on CA, for all the posters to sign, Then move it onto other enthusiast websites, and then with John Cadogan’s connection at Today Tonight, we can go onto other road users, because God knows that everyone, and i mean everyone is fed up with the way the RTA dominates us on the road; its just that most people dont have a means to speak out. Well we do.

CA, John what do you guys reckon? Is it possible?

Kieran

Great idea. Perhaps we can include all states, not just NSW? I know NSW are the ones proposing this, but I certainly don’t want QLD getting any ideas (especially considering how broke my state is – they’re sure to get heavier on traffic offences), and I’m sure that residents in other states (VIC?) agree!

Shak

Of course why not. Once we are finished sticking it up the rear ends of the New NSW Governmetnt, why not move to the other Nanny states. We know that people power is the thing pollies fear the most. Just look at places like Libya. Im not saying we take to the streets with guns(although that would work best), but with our democratic right to liberty. As one post above stated: Where the people fear the government you have tyranny. Where the government fears the people you have liberty.

nickdl

Yes that’s a good idea, but instead of masking our faces, get everyone to cover their rego plates and drive above the speed limit. Especially to those in white Corollas, the RTA wouldn’t have a hope of chasing up fines.

Rik van Zuylekom

They can not reduce it to 0 tolerance as this falls outside the tolerances of the radar equipment. The 3 kph is the minimum they can legally set it to. I would be interested to hear that they can guarantee 100% accuracy for all their readings with the current equipment, because it is my understanding that no such radar has yet been invented!

DGS

Oh that easy, they will just fine anyone who comes within 3km/hr of the speed limit. You can contest it in court, but while you are waiting to do so they will ping you with late payment fees and set the debpt collectors onto you.
BarryHamburger

I think they are talking about 0 tolerance of the error adjusted speed. Ie after the margin of error from the equiptment is factored in. Thats the way it currently works. If you get detected going lets say 10kph over, they only book you for 7.

So in this case, lets say the radar has a 3kph margin of error, they will have to detect you gong 64 in a 60 to book you at 61, for example.

Blitzkrieg

Save it for the track,as a police officer what is your opinion?Does this seem fair,is the police force likely to see this measure for what it really is and nail every motorist doing 61 in a 60 or do you think decretion will still be used by each individual officer?

Michael

“A senior police officer even expressed concerns in the Fairfax report, saying that motorists who simply changed their tyres to a larger tread depth – putting off the original speedo calibration – might start getting fined for speeding just a few kilometres over the limit even though the speedo appears to be displaying a legal speed”

The cops are on our side here. The money that they get from catching people doesn’t go into their pocket and they aren’t going to bother writing someone a ticket for 111 on a 110 road.

It’s the RTA and State Debt Recovery Office that is doing this, the cops are out to make our streets safe. The State Debt Recovery Office on the other hand, well the name explains it all!

Wayne Kerr

Damn SDRO, cost me half a Swiss watch in fines. It’s a symbol of government corruption. How often do they fine someone for a truly heinous crime?

http://Www.holotropik.com Technofreak

a few ideas…

Whenever you drive past a camera slow right down to about 20kmh and choke the traffic.

Now a wild idea…

Cover number plate with that switching glass that goes from clear to opaque. Rig it to switch via GPS when you get near a camera (with a back up manual switch). Even use something like that Trapster App to trigger it??
Anthony

When will these idiots understand that crashing kills more people than speeding… what are they doing to curb the number of crashes?
Danie

Tyre wear, from max to min tread can make more than 3pm/h difference. I would love to see the court cases around this BS
Sam

Ask O’Farrell to dump those idiots NOW before you go to the polling booth today!
http://electric-vehicles-cars-bikes.blogspot.com/ Paul

These RTA bureaucrats are drunk on their own power and are OUT-OF-CONTROL!!!!
Bob

Time to start a Motoring Party!

Technofreak

YES!!

Moe

YOU HAVE MY VOTE

Moe

I Would love to give a Solemn F U to how allowed this to happen, money hungry leeches
Darcy Dunbar

I believe Andrew Stoner, the incoming NSW Transport Minister, is well aware of the extreme anti-motorist attitudes of the RTA and is going to ensure the culture of the RTA is changed from the top down!

He wants them to concentrate on things like fixing our shocking roads.

Anyway, I’m looking forward to watching the s..t fly and listening to my cheering fellow motorists!
http://www.facebook.com/Smiley1394 Smiley xD

Being a learner driver, I find I tend to watch the speedo a ridiculous amount of time compared to actually concentrating on my driving.

I feel comfortable driving at the speed limit, but because of living in a state full of speed cameras, I’m always watching the speedo to make sure I’m not ‘speeding’.

Fixing up dangerous stretches of road would improve safety. Putting in a speed camera at the location would make drivers look at their speedos instead of the road. Being only 16, why can’t the old farts in the department think in this way to improve road safety? I’d say, for all the revenue.
paulb

The authorities have totally lost the plot.Just watched a movie calles V For Vendetta.
The classic commit in that movie is (Governments should not frighten the people/People should frighten the governments).
Bri

How about we all protest the change and say that “WE ARE SICK OF THIS silly RTA and their silly tacktics.” Come on a encourage you all to actually write or email the RTA and make a stand for what is clearly a wrong decision!!!!
Technofreak

Apparently we no longer have to watch the road, instead only the speedo is important in a car now.

So all new model cars will no longer have front windscreens as they are no longer used.

Pedestrian safety is now at risk along with cyclists and….other vehicles.

…maybe now that Labor has LOST! some sanity is allowed to cut the RTA down a notch?
Save It for the track

First up, personally I would never enforce a zero tolerance, and i doubt that the vast majority of Police officers would either.
.
Next a few points. Fixed RTA speed cameras are NOT radar, they rely on sensors in the road. The mobile RTA speed cameras, if they are radar, CANNOT have a zero tolerance. GPS is NOT 100% accurate, so would also seem to indicate that zero tolerance is hardly fair.
New cars are manufactured to the current ADR, which as has been pointed out means that they are not supposed to display speeds LOWER than actual speed. New cars also have varying devices which can assist drivers in staying under a set speed. Cruise control, speed alert, I’ve even seen Peugeots that have a system that lets you set a speed and you can’t actually go over it, no matter how much you press the accellerator.
.
The real dramas will be for older cars which were made to the old ADR’s which DID allow a plus/minus 10%.
I cannot see this actually happening.
.
This would suggest that the RTA would have to change it’s rules on allowable changes to wheels/tyres. Or perhaps they will just simply run the line that people should ensure their speedos are accurate.
.
Given that new cars are made to the current ADR, then the simple solution is for everyone to drive a few K’s under the speed-limit. After all it is a ‘speed-limit’, not the speed you have to drive at. Older cars, if they’re not sure, do 10k’s under. (or speeds under 60 5k’s under)
.
The other issue as well is that not all cars have digital speedos do they?
.
I have heard the RTA called the Random Thought Authority.
I know if I ever got ‘pinged’ at such a low speed I’d be off to court like a shot.

Yonny

Funny, I always thought that RTA stood for Rogue Transport Authority.

By the way, I will never willingly travel at less than the speed limit when conditions allow (ie good, road, good weather, light traffic) allow me to travel at the maximum. If the limit is 100 km/h, then, all things being equal, I damn well want to every single one of those 100 km/h. Why should I do 95? The speed limit on some roads (for example, most of the Hume Highway) is already low enough.

I just want to be treated as a rational person capable of making rational decisions, and not as a never-ending store of money to be tapped into by an incompetent and morally corrupt set of state government authorities.

I agree with what others have said – contest every silly speeding fine, clog up the courts, it won’t take much to push the system into gridlock.

http://STI THE FACT

I hope all these old RTA bureaucrats get fired and then work as taxi drivers for the rest of there life
slow Joe

What we need is a few sharp shooters with a nice silencer to blow these cameras away from a distance … straight through the lens…. make them into a pin hole camera

Or just buy a speed camera detector

Leyianart

Well in Europe allot of Speed cameras have been destroyed and continue to be. Some aren’t even replaced or fixed because some always destroys them again and again.

People should stand up and do the same here in Australia but we are just a little too civilized to have the balls to do so.

MCNAB!

Every one here has the opportunity to fight there Aussie speeding fines dot com by using the information found there! Most of the rules on the road aren’t even real laws and cannot be enforced, people just take it for granted that they are and pay the fines anyway! The RTA and SDRO are just companies and cannot enforce laws. The speed limits and how they change on sections of road are ridiculous. And I’m sorry if anyone disagrees but spending your time watching the speedo and not the road causes more accidents than it solves. Bring in new licensing rules and re test everyone! Have retests every 5 years and the driving standard would raise leading to safer roads! Look at the stats for the autobahns in Germany, no speed limits but very few accidents, the tests are harder so less people are allowed to drive. People treat driving like a right not the privilege it is, if you cannot pass a harder test, then your a safety hazard and shouldn’t be allowed on the road!
MCNAB!

also look at the UK they have removed speed cameras in some locations and the road tolls have gone down. Now if that doesn’t spell it out for the government so fond of following others examples and showing how well this plan or another has worked overseas then check out the first line of my previous comment and find the ways to show them yourselves!!!
Flam

UK showed that removing speed cameras didn’t lower crashes or fatalities. I’m more likely to crash now because I’ll be staring at my dash everywhere I go. If they need money, be upfront about it, and charge us a police tax. Don’t waste man hours of our precious men in blue, chasing someone who might have sneezed at a bad time accidentally stepping too hard on the accelerator.
http://Www.holotropik.com Technofreak

Agreed.
Make it harder for people to get a licence with better testing of the actual ability to drive rather than just knowing the road rules.

Homer

The problem is not those who don’t have a license yet, it’s all of us who do. Been driving for 42 years and never been tested for competency. What a joke and demonstrates the complete lie Governments put forward as their concerns for road safety.

Lukaas

For the people saying the RTA are full of old geezers that need a reality check.. I think this is not too accurate these days..

I believe Accountants are being promoted everywhere to upper management and they only see + and – in terms of revenues.

Their projected “income” and “profit” from speed fines is behind and they have to catch up and then some…

Its a joke, and if you think its a ridiculous notion…. just look at Banks these days, every cent and every 0.05% of your dollar accumulates to billions in profit per year. The RTA is just following this logic…

Speeding kills… the RTA obviously feels stealing is okay though.
Sarah

So what if the speed camera’s are reading a couple of km/hr high?

I guess this puts a definite end to overtaking – something where technically you’re not allowed to go over the limit, but its a necessity for safety (otherwise you could run out of room).

If I ever got a speeding fine if the rules changed, I would not pay it. I would take it to a lawyer and seek out as many people as possible, only accepting those with a reasonable case (within a few km/hr etc), and take it to court. I’d sue them for undertaking illegal revenue raising and whatever else I can, and any money would would be not for profit, it would be to cover costs, and costs of the fellow finees, and any remaining money put to a good cause.
Sarah

In addition to my last comment, recently in Italy it was found officials reduced the time of the amber lights to catch more people for running red lights at intersections. This was an illegal move and became known internationally, I’m sure any international tourist wanting to travel around Australia will deliberately avoid NSW as much as possible now, as the last thing they’d want is the extra expense of unfair fines. This is especially true since many of them would be using those long term hire vans and not have any control over the accuracy of the speedometers.

They may make more money from speed fines, but they’ll lose on tourism.

A BIG thing that people should do, in response to this, is to travel much slower than the speed limit where possible. Remove all chance of getting a speeding fine and the state loses out by getting less speeding fines. By going slower, create congestion on the roads and make the state government an internation laughing stock for poor policy. Prepare for the journey by bringing along some relaxing music, a nice drink, and leave early to get where you’re going in time.

The added bonus of doing the above is your car will lose less fuel, which means less revenue from fuel tax, so its a double victory to motorists.
Save It for the track

I wouldn’t advise anybody taking with a pinch of salt anything that a supposed website has to say about Road Rules in Australia and speed enforcement.
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Many of the alleged ‘experts’ that today not right and currently unfair drag out (otherwise known as TT and ACA), are hardly experts at all in speed enforcement.
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The main thing that often gets lost in this debate is the fact that in NSW speed cameras are NOT opetated by the Police. Police speed enforcement in NSW has a lot more rules than RTA enforcement, and NSW speed enforcement by Police involves a lot more training and a lot more rules than other states.
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I’ve had more than one solicitor who’s head pops up occasionally on TV, or advertises in motoring mags go up against me in court, and I’ve yet to lose. As a matter of fact in a few cases the fine has been increased along with Court costs added (and of course the costs of the solicitor). Not that I’ve had to go to Court much over the years, as the majority of people I fine (for speeding) are doing well over the speed-limit, realise they are, and obviously accept the consequences. Fair enforcement, with accurate equipment and enshrined operating guidelines and a video for the whole thing, doesn’t leave any room for innocence. The same cannot be said for these RTA devices.
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We need to keep an eye on exactly what the RTA are going to do, but I wouldn’t recommend people go to court just for the hell of it, more than one Magistrate gets a bit annoyed if there is no basis for challenging the fine.
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I just hope that in any future reporting of speed enforcement on internet websites, news or tabloid TV like TT or ACA that they STOP rolling all enforcement and devices into one, it is very annoying when file footage of Police Lidar or radar is used in a story about RTA or VicRoads cameras. It’s also very annoying when NSW Police file footage gets used in stories about Qld, Vic, or other states who do not have the same training and operating guidelines as NSW. Surely its not too much to ask for a little bit of research and some accurate reporting on these issues. But of course the facts often get in the way of a good beat up. Much like a recent INACCURATE TT report on speed-limits around the country which contained more than one error on current speed-limits in various states.

MCNAB!

save it for the track as an obviously educated person you will know that in any case in a court of law if there is any doubt then no conviction can be administered. I totally agree when you say not to challenge just for the hell of it but with the right information on such matters, doubt can be brought into the fold and give any person the ability to fight a conviction fairly in a courtroom, which is where they should be anyway as no conviction can be made outside a courtroom, traffic related or otherwise! Like was said at the beginning of this posting a people who fear their government – tyranny, a government who fear their people – liberty!

Shak

No, in civil cases there can be doubt in the evidence presented, only in criminal convictions does their have to be evidence presented “beyond a reasonable doubt”

Yonny

Yes, you’d be a mug to contest a speeding fine that you obviously deserved to get – say, 90 in a 60 zone.

But if they do start fining people for doing 102 in a 100 zone (for example), then I say go for it, as that is clearly a whole different kettle of fish. Those would be the sort of offences that could be contested using the argument that neither of the speed measuring devices involved (ie the car’s speedo and the speed camera) are accurate enough to allow such an offence to be safely upheld. After all, this is why there are tolerances in the first place.

If the government wants to create a rod for its own back it should not be surprised if it is used to spank them hard.

SZQ

i say we send NATO’s army on that tyrant
talk then think

I’ll pay the $400.00 for every RTA honcho taken .

It is clearly revenue raising, the NSW govt knows we are stuffed and we have overspent hence the need for more cameras and new charges. We definitely get over-priced for everything here just have a comparison of the cost of cars for e.g.

On another note I went to the RTA yesterday and noticed that they used a paper based system from what I could tell. I was really shocked by this and thought to myself that if they were running a paper-based system that I could easily of had a more efficient environment. All in all the government is useless, I have no hope and wish you luck if you do.
Al Juraj

We fall down with things we don’t stand for. Let’s not succumb to these irresponsible, money-hungry crooks and fight for what’s right. We are a first-world nation but we don’t have top-class roads, or more importantly, driving skills.

It’s been an absolute fact that speed isn’t the killer. It’s careless driving and poor motoring conditions.

We are heavily taxed (without choice) from our pay. Then what we buy and pay for is taxed again. A brand-new car is taxed from the first buyer. If he or she sells it, the next owner has to be taxed again (through transfer of ownership fee). It also takes heaps of money to pay for rego. Isn\’t that enough? What more could they ask for?

There’s no need for these guys to die and go to hell to be punished for all the cash they’ve been forcibly taking from us. We don’t have to wait that long.
The Original Stevo

Someone could make a lot of money selling forged number plates. The probably already are.
ohreally

will car manufacturers make their speedos 100% accurate?>

Homer

Only if you want to pay an extra $500 – 1000 for your car.

Devil’s Advocate

Funnily enough there are some cars that know exactly how fast they are going, they just don’t display it accurately on the speedo. I know the speed from the OBD2 port and hence ECU on my car is the same as a GPS, but when the OBD2 and GPS say I am doing 100, the speedo is reading around 108. I have a few friends who experience something similar.

ddd

yep when my tomtom says 100 in my car, im doing 92. and im sure 90% of other traffic is around the same, because now i know what 100 really is, im passing everyone else ( well…. most of them )

Save It for the track

The only way for a speedo to be accurate and REMAIN accurate is regular testing, or checking of the speedo with equipment that is regularly tested and calibrated.
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CarlMc

I’ve got no problem with posted speed limits, always drive under 10 kph,100-90,110-100,60-50,underground car parks,1st gear-0 to 5kph, don’t forget that kids get away from mums in the dark,as a truckie for 38 yrs, never been booked in 4 States,school holidays -more attention,resort towns-40-50kph, travelling at night in outback towns-50max

Since Govt. introduced 90kph for trucks, sounds fine to me, so stayed at that speed for-ever.

I need 200 mtrs to stop from 100kph, think about that when next you cut off a truckie and you leave him just 80 mtrs to stop and you wonder why 20 tonnes are squashing your beloved vehicle.

I have good relations with NSW police, they know my vehicle and also know I ain’t speeding, it also helps to ferry policemen during floods to get to the other side of swollen rivers, it also helps when you pull up behind a vehicle with 5 hooligans whom have been stopped by a lone policeman in the middle of nowhere,at night, just to make sure nothing happens to the copper.After the incident no word is spoken,but a nod from the copper is all I need.

We should respect our officers, they have a lousy job, lousy pay, lousy politicians screwing them left,right an centre, just like our soldiers over-seas.

And then you got the bastards, who put heaps of crap onto officers who booked them for breaking the road rules, but how many times have you broken the road-rules and NOT GET BOOKED. And then you have the stupid parents teaching their children the same stupid driving techniques that they have been doing for last 20 yrs and you wonder why so many kids are killed ( this is the way mum/dad drives so it must be OK)

The only way to get safer drivers is have them drive a 5tonne truck with 5 tonnes of high-explosive munitions as a payload, Our motto-One Flash and Your Ash.Artillery Drivers are the best trained drivers in the Army, we drive to survive, plus we have 6 soldiers, who are our responsibility to keep alive.

I see a lot of huffing and puffing tonight,civil disobedience, harrassment of Govt. employees who don’t have say in Depts.rulings,laws made by old farts, hmmmm, inside knowledge or just wise guy.

RTA inspectors are no different to other motorists and any other drivers in this State, you see someone doing wrong, report it to the police, they will send out a fine, only if your prepared to go to Court when asked to do so to swear on Bible that what you reported is gospel.
This is open to all citizens of this State, not just drivers, even pedestrians can ‘book’ you.

Devil’s Advocate

Take a bow CarlMc, well said.
ddd

and then we see the way the grunts in the army pilot their ss’s and wrx’s around town here in townsville.

so they allways think they have an enemy behnind them?

Am-brine

This is great news, no doubt.
In the end you will be fined for having a dog or, for that matter, for not having one!
A bunch of idiots and morons is taking over this great country of ours and leaving no room for the common sense that should prevail before decisions are enforced.
Maybe it’s time for the people to keep aside in a box such silly fines if ever issued in order to give them a better use just in case the nation runs out of toilet paper supply in the future.
Joker

hopefully the results from the weekend just been will have a bearing on what the RTA plan to do.
Mr O’Farrel, put them back on the leach. They’ve been let out for long enough now.
ddd

Before they can impliment this, they need to get EVERY car, check its speedo, and have it calibrated so that it is 100% accurate.

OR buy every car owner a GPS device to monitor their speed. I have 2 cars and both of them are 6-8 kmh OUT.

one is a 2002 model, the other a 1975 model.

i was wondering why there was allways someone on ya back bumper wanting to pass… now i know what speed is 100 in my cars, the only people pushing me now, are commodore drivers, 4×4 dual cab drivers, and young girls in hatchbacks.
adam smolkowicz

Another way for the government to make more money