How can you possibly not like the look of the TRD Aurion?
February 7, 2008 by Anthony Crawford
Three writers at Car Advice including myself have written reviews on Toyota’s controversial TRD Aurion and I was the only to sing the car’s praises.
It’s probably an age thing. I’m over 40 and Paul and Alborz are under 30. That must be it.
241 supercharged kilowatts is a lot of juice to be flowing to the front wheels. Torque Steer. Yes, of course there’s a little torque steer, but it’s entirely manageable and quite a non-event. Just hold the steering wheel properly, with both hands, as you should be and there’s no drama whatsoever.
And if you need to jump on the right pedal and give it a boot full, you’ll be rewarded with ‘blast off’ style acceleration that keeps on going and going, thanks to those 400 Newton metres peaking at a respectable 4000rpm.
Normally I would be physically ill if I had to live with red leather seats in a daily ride, but this colour trim in a black TRD, is stunning.
But before I end up writing another 1500 word review on the TRD, which I have no intention of doing, I wanted to share with you, a few photos of the car which I had shoved in a desktop file and forgotten about.
You can find our reviews below:
- TRD Aurion 3500S Road Test (Paul)
- TRD Aurion 3500SL Road Test (Alborz)
- TRD Aurion 3500SL Review (Tony)
Anthony Crawford
Print it: 
Ok this may take a while………if I remove the
www from the front of the link you do a search with it.
That may make things easier that another 5 posts of what happened in an article that you doubted Andrew had!
.v8x.com.au/cms/A_30451/article.html
Happy reading………
Come on Joel read the whole article before you start to make a comment……
You then need to apologise to AndrewM I think.
Bavarian – good reading, i like it.
It goes to a certain extent of answering my own questions as the resistance from Holden and Ford is once again brought to attention. As much as Holden and Ford love to compare thier performance breed cars to others, at the same time they are not so willing to share that same enthusiasm on the track.
Why would that be ??
As much as i critise Holden and Ford for thier often sour sportsmanship like practices such as resistance for other competitors to enter V8 Supercars, i also equally believe that most car companies in Australia are not particularly interested either but i certainly look forward to the day ‘when’ not ‘if’ the push is ignited by whoever.
Here is my unsupported belief.
Considering Holden and Ford have the race on Sunday and sell on Monday championship underwraps for the time being, it appears that it is having little or no effect on thier current sales as not only does the Commodore and Falcon continue decline but more rather thier fleet/range in general. Take Toyota for instance, thier only presance in motorsport in Australia is ARC (that they dominate over Ford, Subaru and Mitsubishi as the other competitors) which is of little recognition compared to V8 Supercars yet are able to outsell Holden and Ford combined on some months without such recognition, so nodoubt Toyota is asking themselves … why bother !
Bavarian – excellant reading, i like it very much so.
If you read between the lines of it all, AVESCO has gone about this in a very cunning form by establishing requirements that will most likely deter most manufactuers from appling hence allowing current teams an easy run for thier money.
A worthwhile example to raise is why has AVESCO implemented a threshold requirement that 2 teams must run for a minimum of five years because as far as i am concerned it will most likely (as it has appeared so) eliminate any enticement to a degree so therefore have implemented this for good reasons and that most certainly would not have been to be in favour of any potential startup.
Above all, AVESCO would have complete understanding of potential startup up costs and then went one step further by implying restrictive entry requirements. I will pay it to them, very clever. Cunning – but clever but i guess all in all they have achieved thier goal without being seen as discrimitive.
If AVESCO were fair dinkum about creating greater numbers of competiotrs from different manufactuers, they would have relaxed thier regs in-order to offer sweetners for potential startups but then again they are probably under threat from Holden and Ford at the same time.
i actually didnt find it in a V8X mag although if i looked further i suppose i would find it there too.
the first one i laid my hands on was “Motorsport News”
No.231 may15-28 2002
here is one quote (and fair too) regarding Joels last post
“the 2 manufacturers we have got earned their right to be there”
“which would appear to be a nice way of saying, holden and ford have spent millions on this and the price of admission for a new make would reflect this. expect an entry price somewhere in the single figure millions”
also mate the fans got upset at gentleman jim not purely because he won in a nissan but also compounded even more so by the fact he was awarded the win whilst crashed on the side of the track!!! even Jim Richards didnt think he had won and admitted it in the press conferences.
so who did the crowd think had won???? Dick Johnson.
so it was made even worse by a crashed car ruled the winner over the “Big Hero” DJ.
so there you go it wasnt just pure bad sportsmanship from the fans
whoo whoo whoo,
there is a very good reason for making it a minimum 4 car start up, and you have just made me open my magazine again hang on whilst i quote………….
AH i found it……….my article goes a bit more into explaining the commitments that would be required
QUOTE…….
“AVESCO would require two commitments from any new manufacturer;
one of time,with a likely minimum commitment
and one of the number of cars. should a company like Mitsubishi show up with a big budget two car team, hire the best drivers on the market and out spend its rivals, win a championship and then disappear, there would likely be a significant backlash from the existing teams”
Very interesting read! I certainly learnt something new today.
Andrew – as many excuses on AVESCO’s behalf that can be made, it doesn’t change the facts that they have gone about engineering entry requirements that will most likely deter most manufactuers based upon the size and limited potential profits to be made in a market as small as that of our own. As i have said, very cunny on thier behalf but also very smart.
I have a cast model replica of the Bathurst winning GTR in my possession but currently packed away as we just made a baby room out of our spare as we are expecting our 2nd child in roughly 2 weeks so i can not quote the exact statement (unless i am forced to drag it out of my boxes) but with it came a story about the GTR exsistance at Bathurst.
To cut along story short, from the original GTR – they were forced on 3 occassions to limit the competitive nature of the Nissan until it came within the limits of the Commodore and Falcon. The first two limitations were associated with adding extra weight to the car and the third was enforced upon them to tone down the psi (boost) of the turbo.
So, it wasn’t just the last resort of forcing Nissan out all together but the fact is, Nissan had continued restictions applied to them until thier original specificatations had been artificially erroded… how sad.
Some may recall the fantastic Ford Cosworth Sierra. Basically it’s days were ended when the same mob enforced a single turbo restriction instead of it’s original two.
Lets just face it, the overseas competitors of the time were penalised until they were squeezed out of the competition and therefore Holden and Ford were thrown a lifeline in an effort to save face.
That to me will always be remembered when i hear Holden and Ford going on about thier cars. If they are supposedly so great then start inviting competitors to the track instead of offering stiff resistance. Actions have always spoken much louder then any words.
I’m still waiting on the referance of those so called articles in those so called books.
I’ve given mine, how about you people follow suit.
Great looking car that handles, goes and stops with rigour. Pleasant interior and nodoubt of high quality and refinement. Hope TRD do well in Oz. Joel, good reading.
cheers
Joel,
PARITY – Aus touring car racing has always had it. And the limitations have never been restricted to foreign cars. Your trying to paint a very distorted picture that just does not exist. V8 supercars is a formula series designed around succesful marketing – and it works.
Toyota & Mitsu are not part of V8 Supercars because they don’t see it as a worthwhile marketing exercise for their domestics offerings, and won’t (or can’t) put up the money for something that isn’t a worthwhile marketing exercise for them. Plain and simple, no BS.
Bret, you make a very good point and a worthwhile at that. Truthfully, Toyota and Mitsubishi most likely have no current interests but if they ever did display any such intentions, AVESCO has gone about engineering thier regs in any effort that it will most likey deter any such enteries.
As i commented above, Holden and Ford were thrown a lifeline by succesfully squeezing the Nissan GTR and Ford Sierra out of contention by restricting thier competitive nature.
To me, no excuse will justify the actions of the motor-racing body in the past or the fact that Holden and Ford display stiff resistance while AVESCO has played it for them.
As i mentioned earlier, Holden and Ford are all to willing to compare thier performance breed machines in comparo’s but don’t share the same level of enthusiasm when it comes to inviting competitors to the track but rather offer resistance instead … plain, simple and no BS.
I have yet to note those referances but then again i don’t expect to either. Until otherwise, i will put Andrews comments as bogus.
Joel,
Not quite correct. I think that you are a little shy on some of the facts. AVESCO as a company was FORMED along with the V8 Supercars series. This series was formed in ‘97 and has the status of Australian Touring car Championship. AVESCO (or actually V8 Supercars Australia) is joint a partnership between TEGA and Sports Entertainment Ldt. Tega is the teams, drivers etc. The current series is NOT the same competition that you claim squeezed out particular cars. Heck, even “Bathurst” was not V8 supercars the first year of the series. And NOBODY went!
Nobody set about to exlude any particular manufaturer, only to create a successful formula. Ford and Holden just happened to be the only manufactuters who put up money.
To suggest that the two brands are “scared” of being beaten on the track is just plain stupid. It is a formula competition, limits are placed on many parameters, many items are “control” items, testing is restricted. This is all to contain costs to within a certain budget. Beyond that budget bucket loads of cash actually do little. Manufaturers themselves do little in the way of development for the series, it is the teams within the sport that produce developments that increase speed and reliability of thier race cars.
Any manufacturer with an appropriate car on sale domestically can approach a team owner and say race ours.
Ford and Holden DO NOT control who enters what.
Quote [Joel]:
If you read between the lines of it all, AVESCO has gone about this in a very cunning form by establishing requirements that will most likely deter most manufactuers from appling hence allowing current teams an easy run for thier money.
You may think that.. However; you could say the same for F1
- trying to protect the vested interests of the traditional competitors being Ferrari and Mercedes Benz
Quote [Joel]:
A worthwhile example to raise is why has AVESCO implemented a threshold requirement that 2 teams must run for a minimum of five years because as far as i am concerned it will most likely (as it has appeared so) eliminate any enticement to a degree so therefore have implemented this for good reasons and that most certainly would not have been to be in favour of any potential startup.
I doubt that any manufacturer [be it Toyota or Ferrari]would bother investing the millions of doolars required to set up and run a racing team in any form of motorsport for less than 5 years.
I see you haven’t yet bothered to read the AVESOC operations manual
Even if Toyota wanted to enter the V9 Supercars.. which they are allowed to; and have been invidted to do so..
It would probably take them the same amount of time to develop a car [Aurion] which would be able to compete on equal terms with the Fords and Holdens as they have in F1..
Bret, you have explained nothing that i already knew and despite your reply – it doesn’t change the fact that it is commonly accepted and known knowledge that Holden and Ford have offered resistance against other manufactuers to enter the championships nor the fact that AVESCO have been very cunning yet smart at erroding sweetners associated with enticing new comers to the track.
No matter the response, those outlines do not alter.
It is such a coincidance that AVESCO and subsequent rules were born from tha ashes of the humiliation that Holden and Ford as with thier fans received when foreign cars were put up against the local offerings with thier aspirations squashed.
Wheelnut – they are my thoughts and i believe i am on the money. F1 has several teams, V8 Supercars with 2.
I am waiting on Andrew’s supply of referances.
I don’t think the fans were p—ed off at Jim Richards or mark Skaife winning in 92.. afterall the fans respect both of theses fine drivers.. Particularly “Gentleman Jim”
I feel the fans were didn’t really understand the Red Flag rule – which is understandable as there are some in race control who don’t really understand it either.
As Tim Schenken said under the Red Flag rule the stewards revert back to the previous completed lap at which point the GT-R was leading [DJ passed the GT-R as it left the track going down conrod].
Mind you there were those who believe that the decision to Red Flag the Race was a case of Premature Adjudication as less than 10 minutes later [in typical bathurst style}the rain had stopped
Therefore; they could have used the pace car.. yet unfortunately those in race control aren’t sure how to use that either
Quote Joel: “F1 has several teams, V8 Supercars with 2.”
No; V8 Supercars actually have 18 teams who; under the regulations are only allowed to race either a ford or a holden as they are the only two local manufacturers who build a car which meets the criteria and have decided to invest the money needed to go racing..
Again read the regulations and you will see that if Toyota are willing to take the gamble as they have been in F1 they would be welcome to compete..
Nowhere does it say that V8 Supercars is the exclusive domian of Ford and Holden
Wheelnut, Toyota hasn’t been invited and nor will they be. F1 has proven a difficult task but it’s engineering prowness is much above the technical challenges of V8 Supercars.
2007 was Toyota’s debut season in NASCAR and achieved some sound results with expectations and confidance running much higher for this season with the securement of some very strong teams from traditional GM alignments. The best example of all has been the coming onboard of Gibbs Racing with pre-season testing returning highly competitive results with the strongest times of all.
Because of the experianced teams that Toyota has been able to secure away from GM and the pre-season development of thier cars, engines etc – the eyes are very much focused on Toyota for the 2008 NASCAR season and by all reports i have read, should do well for themselves – only time will tell but i hope they do.
If Toyota did enter V8 Supercars it’ll probably be based upon a Lexus platform such as the GS or possibly the IS and the odds are they’ll develop a highly competitive team considering the value they have gained from thier involvement in F1.
It’s not AVESCOs fault that Toyota aren’t competing in the 08 V8 Championship
It all comes down to where a manufacturer be it Ford Holden or Toyota believe that they are most likely to get the greatest return on their Research/Development and Marketing/Advertising dollar.
And given the $100,000s of dollars fans spend on Team Merchandise alone it’s pretty easy to see that V8s are a popular marketing tool..
which could explain why so many companies are now clamouring to obtain sponsorship deals with the various teams.
So really Joel if you are so desperate for there to be a V8 Aurion in 2010 I suggest that you and yoour Toyota Pals stop whinging on this site and start asking Toyota to turn the Aurion into a RWD – I mean if it’s such a good FWD Performance Car than surely it would be even better if it were RWD
If Toyota did enter the V8 Supercars it would have to be based on the Aurion Platform and use the Aurion Body because the regulations state
The cars must be based on an Australian Built Family Sized RWD Sedan.. NOT Japanese or American.
“A belief is not a thought that the mind posesses… it’s a thought which posesses the mind.”
Wheelnut, no it is not AVESCO’s fault that Toyota isn’t in V8 Supercars at this stage because i believe Toyota has little or no interest but if any manufactuer did display intentions then current regs would certainly not do any favours to entice new comers to the track nor would Holden and Ford with thier resistance.
It is not about whinging, it’s about putting forward reality events with facts so that hopefully people will take it onboard and learn. Personally, it doesn’t bother me wether Toyota enters Supercars or not but rather achieve results in the other global events they have taken onboard with continued and hopefully greater recognition with ARC over the coming years.
IF Holden and Ford RWD V8 performance cars are so good then surely they would be enthusiastic about other manufactuers entering the game but as i have now commented on several occassions – they don’t share that same level commitment as they do with quick shootouts from various automotive media groups. Why is that !!
Also, judging by the declining sales of the Commodore and Falocn as with the fleet of Holden and Ford in general, it very much appears that thier exposure to V8 Supercars is doing little to improve thier slump considering Toyota can now outsell the combined results of the other 2 on given months without such recognition.
Quote [Joel]: Because of the experianced teams that Toyota has been able to secure away from GM and the pre-season development of thier cars, engines etc – the eyes are very much focused on Toyota for the 2008 NASCAR season
The same thing an happen in V8 Supercars too Joel all they have do do is approach a number of teams and say race our cars.. [as Bret said earlier]
However unlike NASCAR which is a “Silouhette Series” where the cars are built on a spaceframe; V8 Supercars is more closely related to Production Cars so Toyota would have to build a Road Car which meets the Criteria just as Ford and Holden do.. not just supply the body/shell
Wheelnut, we can do without the mind possession games.
I agree that Overall sales of Falcons and Commodores may be declining.. However; the % of sales of both Commodores and Falcons made up of V8s – SS/XR8s has either plateaued or gradually increased.
Not to mention that Both HSV abd FPV had record sales last year.. and given the interest in the new Falcon it’s most liikely going to continue.
For example the BF Cobras sold out faster than Free beer
I mean those who really want a V8 Performance car aren;t really going to worry that much about fuel.
It’s like they say if you have to ask how much iy costs to run a Rolls Royce you can’t really afford to Buy one anyway.
The majority of Toyota’s sales is made up of their commercial vehicles – Hi-Ace; Landcruiser/Prado etc.. of which there are no real direct rivals from Ford or Holden
Yet with Family Sedans such as the Aurion [which this Blog is supposed to be about] The Commodore and Falcon are still outselling the Aurion – oh and that’s NOT including HSV or FPVs Record sales
Quote [Joel]: If AVESCO were fair dinkum about creating greater numbers of competiotrs from different manufactuers, they would have relaxed thier regs in-order to offer sweetners for potential startups but then again they are probably under threat from Holden and Ford at the same time.
Joel surely you can see that with the ever increasing crowd attendances; record ratings and level of corporate sponsorship etc that AVESCO have got the right Formula.. Therefore; if it’s working so well why the hell would they make any changes inorder to allow others to compete..?
That’s right – they don’t have to.. under the regulations If toyota want to invest the $$$ needed and build a car which meets the criteria they are allowed to compete.
And why would they offer sweetenrs to what is the world’s biggest/richest manufacturer.
I think its pretty obvious that Toyota have no intnetion of entering V8 Supercars. Not Because:
they’re not allowed to enter – they are.
fans don’t want them – there are some that do.
Ford and Holden don’t want them – They couldn’t stop them
But because Toyota Don’t:
build a car which meets the criteria/specifications.
see it as a worthwhile venture – and F1 was?
Quote TP: Doesn’t matter if they had a V12… an ugly 380 is an ugly 380
Yes it would matter; because under the current regulations teams can’t use a V12. It would have to be a 5.0 Litre Pushrod V8 engine which produces 620-700Bhp – inorder to contain costs nad improve reliability etc [less rebuilds]
Joel,
mate if you want my reference perhaps you better stop being bitter about it and read the reference i gave you.
oh and we are all still waiting to see your proof that they arent allowed to enter.
also have you heard of the “Performance car series” yet?
that is where you see stock cars from many manufacturers racing including HSV’s. go check it out and then tell me the big HSV’s up front are scared of the imports in the series.
also Mitsubishi had actually displayed how easy it would be to develop a RWD V8 Magna. they actually had one racing at the time when mitsubishi was keen on the subject.
once again check out “motorsport news”
No.231 may15-28 2002.
in there they detail exactlly how easy it would be to develop a RWD Magna and even more so when you consider that the holdens and fords dont even run stock drive gear.
whether it is a ford, holden or even toyota they would all have to run a ford 9″ to get the power to the wheels
it has been proven that it isnt that hard to develop these FWD cars into an eligible entrant.
mate the real reason is that toyota just isnt interested!!!!! deal with it.
all the race teams have to build the whole car from a shell they get delivered so dont try and tell me its really restrictive towards Mitsu and Toyota
Wheelnut dont take it literally, what I meant is that it wouldnt have pulled them out of the sh*t… they produced shyte cars which either looked crap (380) or lacked power (Magna). Participaing in events such as the V8 supercars isnt what makes a company sucessful, its but one component.
TP,
power in the road going Magna would change when they throw the V8 in it i would think……
also the magna at the time of its near entry actually outpowered the commodore and the video you showed us a while back actually has the 380 out running the commodore doesnt it?
oh and also at the time where mitsu was going to enter the category, toyotas entry would have been the Avalon. you want to talk about ugly cars????
Oh and Joel,
do you remember what happened when John Bowe raced a stock Ford Mustang in the Procar series?
it ripped the competition to shreads to a point where they had to restrict the Mustang so it would not be so dominant.
so you see, ford has felt the effects of a motorsport governing body restricting their vehicles in the interest of equality in racing just like nissan.
Andrew – stop with the dribble because thats all it is. Facts remain, the Ford Sierra’s and Nissan GTR’s were squeezed from the competition because they neatly destroyed the aspirations of the locals … pure and simple
Now, todays regulations employed by AVESCO have gone about it in such a manner that it will most likely (as it seems) deter most potential competitors from joining and that is bluntly obvious. No amount of dribble alters that.
Out of the four local manufactuers in Australia until recently with the dismise of Mitsubishi, why is that AVESCO adopted the RWD V8 policy in with full understanding that Mitusbishi and Toyota as the other local manufactuers don’t exhibit such traits locally. If either of them were to join then the most likely choice they would persue is force inducted 6 cyl’s mated to an AWD system but judging by AVESCO’s own requirements – have they factored in such potentials … NO ! It has all been establsihed in favour of Holden and Ford with little or no consideration with how the other 2 local manufactuers would have prefer to establish thier cars especially considering they are /were locals as well.
And were are those referances i am still waiting for.
Joel,
If you already knew what I said, why do you sprout contrary opinions to the facts I presented?
You keep arguing your opinions. However the real facts argue otherwise. You either need to do some real research, to discover the truth for yourself, or listen to the facts as presented by others here. You are wrong with so many of your claims that it is pointless continuing.
AVESCO and the new rules were not born from the ashes of the dominance of a foriegn car – that is either a malicious fabrication or a total lack of knowledge of the truth: Either way the statement makes you look really dumb.
Group C gave way to Group A to bring in international competition. International involvement, however was limited to a few enduro races – basically there wasn’t the interest from overseas.
Group A was a hugely expensive formula, and in light of declining crowds, TV viewing, sponsorship and advertising dollars the sport was dying. A MARKETING company, in association with the participants of the sport, came up with a formula that would Cap costs, provide close competition and appeal to the fans who would vote with their dollars: V8 Supercars was born.
It has absolutely nothing to do with squeezing out any other mnufacturer, rather it is a marketing driven business.
The formula has been a huge success: TV viewing is at its highest ever, crowds are at record highs & sponsors and advertisers have returned, not just to Touring cars but to motor sport in Australia in general.
Joel, you need to understand the facts, get over your biased jealousy and move on. Failing to do so merely paints you as someone pushing a vested interest propagonda.
Bret – lets just cut the crap about jealousy, do research, accept facts and what ever else people like yourself want to through into the pot because it is nothing more then steeping around the subject
As i mentioned earlier, i understand the reasons for AVESCO regulations (to a certain level) and it strikes me as sometwhat coincidental that the requirements have been engineered to a point that it establishes a high probable chance of erroding the intentions of other manufactuers entering the championships.
Two particular examples that come to the forefront the most is the requirement for any new competitor supply a minimum of 2 teams for 5 years and lets be frank about this – the likihood of a any new comer of wishing to follow suit would be remote at the very least.
Secondly, at the time when AVESCO and subsequent legislation was born, there were 4 local manufactuers with only two them suppling V8 RWD’s while the others did not but despite this, the requirements were cemented regardless considering the chances are if Mitsubishi or Toyota expressed intentions they would most likley by all means be more keen to persue a different platform – eg AWD force inducted 6 cyl’s – as it would be more inline with thier front wheel driven 6 cyl capacity cars on offer instead which lack of V8 option.
And once again, there is absolutely no denying that the likes of the Ford Sierra’s and Nissan GTR’s were squeezed from the competition because the governing body of the time continuely imposed restrictions upon the original competitive nature of such cars until they were brought into line with the lesser competition instead of Holden and Ford being forced to improve on thier game instead.
Why were such teams forced to bring the level of professionalism down when the locals should have been forced to take the level up.
Now, this takes me back to one of my original request and that is for Andrew to supply referances that he stated he had and despite several reminders i have witnessed no such thing … why !!
Until then, i have a referance point that challenges AVESCO and until Andrew can follow suit, i will consider his claims as nothing more then bogus.
REPEAT
Wheels November 2006 page 9 by Ged Bulmer :
“The focused purity of Falcon versus Commodore has become one of the sports most enduring and compelling contests, while for Ford and Holden, the ability to play out thier rivalry on TV screens and racetracks around the country feeds directly into sales. ‘The win on Sunday, sell on Monday’ mantra remains alive and well – it seems – all of which goes to explain in part the stiff resistance from both manufactuers to suggestions that the series should be opened up to other players like Toyota for instance”.
continuning :
“No-one doubts for a moment that Toyota,or Mitsubishi for that matter, could build highly competitive cars to the v8 Supercar formula. Infact, given it’s stance as the worlds most profitable car maker, concerns about the depth of Toyota’s pockets is probably the real reason for it being denied access to v8 racing. That, and the fact that series organsier AVESCO would think carefuly indeed about revisiting those days in the early ’90s when the all-conquering Nissan Skyline GTR’s mercilessly crushed the aspirations of local V8 fans”
That said, why don’t you start listening to what others are saying and the facts put forward by myself and do some research that argues against the referance i have been able supply because quite frankly, individuials (Andrew) have not been able to follow suit and supply any counter referances that were cliamed on thier behalf. Unless otherwise, it is pointless to continue this discussion as people like yourself refuse to accept the facts and opinions supplied but more rather put priority on those of your own instead.
Follow suit and supply referances as i have done.
Joel,
The same “teams” you claim were squeezed, are the very people (TEGA) who were party to the formation of V8 Supercars. They were not sqeezed out, they chose to move to a new formula designed to be a marketable ongoing competition. And it has worked superbly from a business sense.
Your continued, obviously deliberate, ignoring of the facts and sprouting of made up stories about sqeezing makes etc etc etc makes you out as the total propaganda stooge.
I am done, I thought you genuinely just misunderstood, however it is clear now that you do know the truth but are delibeately trying to rewrite history to satisfy a vested interest.
You are trying to preach B/S to people who know the truth.
You are wrong.
We do not believe your PROPAGANDA.
You lose.
This is done.
Bret, you are the individual heavily misunderstood here.
Originally the Ford Sierra exhibited a twin turbo setup and was later restricted to a single unit in order to decrease it’s effectiveness and when that rule was implied the Sierra teams packed up and left.
Now – the exact same circumstances accured with the GTR with not one penalty applied but three. The first two penalties to be imposed were manatory weight increases on the car but when that proved less sucessful then anticipated then the booost (psi) were tuned down (restricted) on their turbos.
Now – with such ongoing restrictions that were continually being imposed upon the Sierra’s and GTR’s, you have the ordacity to satte that i am misinformed and preach BS.
There is no rewritting history here as they the factual accurances that undertook place and if you have failed to recognise such history then i suggest you should be the individual conducting research.
Misunderstood … NOT !! Detailing events … ABSOLUTELY.
And one other point of interest, another coincidence with the regs cemented by AVESCO was the mandatory usgage of pushrod V8’s considering Holden and Ford exhibit such aged technology yet Mistusbihi and Toyota had moved upon from such times many years before.
So lets have recapp here … RWD, pushrods, V8 – all aligned with the exhibited traits of holden and Ford. What provisions are/were in place to cater for Mitsubishi and Toyota with thier FWD 6 cylinders (with no v8 optiion)especially considering they are/were local manufactuers aswell.
Just goes to prove my point which direction AVESCO was heavily leaning towards yet individuals like yourself try and convince people that “it’s not like that” … yeah right – get real.
And were are those referances from Andrew i have been continually asking for. I have supplied mine but no action in return … WHY NOT !!
mate its not my fault you cant read the magazine i referenced.
SCROLL BACK UP!!!!!!!!
your only proof is someone “OPINION” that they wont let them in.
the term “probably the reason” doesnt mean FACT.
take an english lesson would you……..it is some bitter persons speculation.
oh and dont forget that ford doesnt use push rod V8’s so do you hear all the ford fans pesimisticly saying they are trying to push ford out??
get over yourself DINGO!!!!………(yes we know its you)
did you also know they add weight to go Kart classes in order to maintain parity?
how about you go whinge that toyota cant enter the carrera cup
REPEAT…….
i referenced my sources and it is NOT MY FAULT YOU cant or dont want to acknowledge them
Who is this Dingo character and why am i him ? I take it he stirred the pot sometime ago.
Andrew, your referances are of poor quality and do not challenge Jed Bulmers comments. Any research down memory lane will surely prove the authenticity of my statement and the fact that Holden and Ford in conjunction with AVESCO have been cunny yet extremely smart at erroding the enticement of new comers to the plate.
As i stated on some occassions already, Holden and Ford are willing participants in shoootout comparo’s but don’t share the same level of enthusiasm when it comes to inviting new players to the track. Bad sportsmanship pretty much raps it up with history as undisputable evidance. Gotta love it!
Joel,
Wrong again: “the Sierra teams packed up and left” The Teams that were running sierras are still here, competing in the V8 Supercars formula that they helped to create.
Every year that I can remember some car or other had parity penalties applied to them, (and it still happens in the V8’s) not just the odd example that you wish to quote, for your own purposes of twisting fact.
Your waffling PROPAGANDA is totally boring – I have better things to do than to continually prove you wrong, when you wont accept it because you are pushing some CORPORATE barrow.
END.
I acknowledge some of the drivers still drive today while others have retired but you get my point and forget the propaganda, corporate barrow crap because no-body is more guilty of this then a typical small minded fan of Holden or Ford.
Again, no excuse changes the events of the past and while the aspirations of the local v8 fans got crushed people like yourself would have been one of those true bad sportsman in life that jumped up and down and cried blue murder because you poor ole folks couldn’t get ‘ya way.
Boo hoo, have another cry why don’t ‘ya. Just can not cope it fair and square can you. Oh yeah – must be equally crushing having Toyota run bullrings around your beloved Holden and Ford companies as they are so easily doing. Infact, it comes as a complete surprise that the red and blue badges haven’t yet tried to get Toyota banned from Australia but i guess wether they like it or not this is one race they are gonna have to run with wether they like it or not – how painful.
Joel,
The problem here is that you, as a Toyota corporate, are trying to BS individuals (be it Holden/Ford/Nissan fans etc).
And the sad part – you trying to pigeon hole me. You just don’t get it. I am a motorsport fan first and foremost. Won’t support Holden (Kelly is a ….), and favour Ford, Subaru & Toyota, in no particular order. Have owned more Toyota’s than anything else, but none currently. Loved the group C corollas at bathurst.
I just find your untrue propaganda frustrating to the N’th degree. Your version of history just did not happen. Nobody is sooking but you.
For the third and last time, thats it!
(Anti-spam: R34GTR hahaha)
Bret – get over this Toyota corporate thing you are stuck on because we are discussing the less then favourable sportsmanship behaviour that has been displayed by Holden and Ford over the years and not corporate T.
For someone who is supposedly interested in Motorsport, i find it somewhat bizzare that you exhibit no knowledge about the actual and factual occurances associated with the Ford Cosworth Sierra and Nissan’s GTR Godillza during that particualr era of Australia Motorsport.
Before we travel any further with this discussion, don’t you dare come back at me until you take the time and effort and conduct some discovering (research) for yourself and then – and only then – you will relise i am not full of BS afterall.
I will await your reply.
ps – what is your age exactly because that might hold the clue why you exhibit limited understanding about the events we are discussing.
Geez I’m a sucker for fools.
The existance of V8 Supercars has nothing to do with bad sportsmanship by Holden/Ford. It is marketing driven.
My Knowledge of the era you are talking about is extensive – thats why I find your BS unacceptable.
I have the knowledge, don’t need any further research, thanks. Again thats why I realise that you are sprouting BS.
My age is irrelevant, my knowledge and understanding is.
But anyway early-mid 40’s, but not old enough to be a baby-boomer! And my understanding is in no way limited – I just don’t have some hidden agenda.