It suffers from the general Toyota malaise of looking like a fairly pedestrian car. No passion, no emotion. Sure, it has some extra little bits of plastic on it, but it still looks like a 4 cylinder Camry.

That is a stunning looking car, absolutely love it.

FWD or not, this is a superb offering from TRD and should establish it’s own niche market as a executive rocketship.
By all means – brakes, handling, muscular engine, quality and refinement have all been strong points raised in many reviews.

Has everybody seen the road going racer, looked awesome and will compete in it’s first race at Targa Tasmania with Australian Rally Champion Neil Bates at the wheel.

The newly released Hilux will be good addition our local TRD family aswell.

Actually, having Neil Bates and Simon Evans participating and winning in the group N Rally Corolla’s (Australian Rally Championships) should prove a hit for TRD as they gradually establish presence in Australia.

It does look nice in black, very beefy for a Toyota. But as mentioned countless times, I can’t get past the FWD.

When are carmakers going to learn?

I think it looks as though George Lucas designed it, just a bit too much plastic skirting – very Darth Vader. But I will admit, it doesn’t look so bad in the flesh.

The problem is the torque steer shouldn’t be there in the first place. Change the platform if you’re going to pump more juice into the thing.

Secondly, 41kw isn’t enough over the standard Aurion to be anywhere near enticing. Actually get that supercharger DOING something (around the 280kw mark, but then imagine the torquesteer, see issue #1) then maybe I would think about it.

Its a stupid car when you really think about it.

Must be something us over 40s like maybe….. I don’t mind the exterior……colour of the interior yuk! Centre console layout a bit ho hum.

Auto………..ahhhhhhhh is that because you need both hands on the wheel when you launch.hahaha
Sorry Anthony……..hehehe

I hope this doesn’t turn into yet another b…h post against Ford and Holden cause we don’t like torque steer…….

“How can you possibly not like the look of the TRD Aurion?”

EASILY.

exterior is ok, too much red inside. I would’ve liked interior if it mimicked the feeling of the exterior and enginebay. black with red accents (like tail lights and that supercharger)

looks just like a VE Commode

Exterior looks ok, although i think the rear wing and front skirt are a bit fussy. A little like all those kits you see on the 200sx brigade.
The interior looks good, once you get past the colour selection. I think red leather should be reserved for the HSV set. Nothing say bogan more than this.

Nice interior when compared to Fords constant use of wet suit material in their sedans.
FWD is a downer no matter how you see it.

When this becomes rwd I dont see holden and fords competing.

no dont like it

That is a very, very nice looking beast from Toyota.

Haven’t driven one yet but had a look at one in Rockhampton some time back and was impressed with the quality, fit and finish and overall presentation of the car.

I’m sure some torque steer will be evident but what many bloggers are not acknowledging and that is this car also has many strengths going for it aswell.

Did anyone read the latest Wheels comparison against the Falcon and Subi because they priased the dynamics, handling, muscular engine and braking capacity of the car. I reckon that blown 3.5 v6 would be a real gem.

I hope Toyota prove thier critics wrong and prove that a moderate performance car can be engineered from a FWD platform and be everybit as enjoyable to drive as any other.

Steve – nothing is more inflated and bloated then a VE Commodore while i believe it also suffers from questionable quality as any previous Commodore has.
Also, RWD cars let go everybit as easily in the wet as FWD and can often induce a car into a spin if not correctly maintained.

The TRD Aurion may have torque steer but HSV’s and FPV’s come with thier weaknesses as well such as underdone brakes for the size and performance of thier cars as well as questionable quality and of course relibility stakes.

Unlike a HSV, atleast in the TRD Aurion i wouldn’t have to worry about premature brake fade and end up planting into a tree. No thanks – i like something that can stop everybit as hard as it goes.

Elitist,
Didn’t know that leather is now called wet suit material. You got it wrong before on the F6X post, and you got it wrong again!

Is that what you call leather?

All jokes aside, This car looks ok but needs to be RWD to be a serious contender.
When this happens I would recommend its 65k japanese quality build to the slapstick quality of the other two.

Leather, i was wondering when we can stop Ford and Holden employees posing as individuals and pushing thier propaganda.

My son (Luke GT) and i have both looked at the TRD Aurion and liked it very much although we haven’t driven one yet.

For once, stop thinking that FPV’s and HSV’s are the ‘be all’ and ‘end all’ of performance cars in this particular market because quite frankly, they are not.

Luke amd myself have an appreciation of quality, refined, reliable vehicles that are well balanced and i personally don’t find those traits in a Holden or Ford. Yeah, a HSV or FPV go hard and corner good but thier brakes leave much to be desired as well as the quality and reliability of such vehicles.

Stop with the propaganda and accept that this is a public site for all to express thier thoughts and opinions. I personally like the TRD Aurion for what it is and hope TRD make something of themselves in Australia.

Put it this way, as Awesome Aurion pointed out, having Neil Bates and Simon Evans onboard with the ARC Corolla’s, a modified Street Racing Aurion to infact debut at Targa Tasmania (also pointed out by Awesome Aurion) aswell as the TRD Aurion and Hilux is a good start for them and i for one support thier organisation.

I hope they achieve the results they are chasing because it would be good to have TRD remain here in Australia and offer the public something different then regular HSV’s/FPV’s all the time.

Who knows, what we are seeing today could be the early days of a very fine group that could just aswell evolve into a much repected performance brand and i would like to see that by all means.

Apart from that, i like the styling of the TRD Aurion. I carn’t put my finger on it as to why but it appeals to me none-the-less. The second photo down really does look the part. Have you seen the Sreet Racer Version wrapped in TRD colours, looks brilliant especially with the racing styled wheels

This car reminds me of a 9 year old girl who found her mum\’s secret drawer of trashy lingerie, make-up, and tack-on bits accessories. She’s plastered it all on in one hit, and ended up looking like a cheap prostitute waiting for someone to take her for a ride.

Foggy haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa funny!

I wouldn’t say I don’t like the Look, it’s just the fact it’s FWD.

Shane, sorry i didn’t realise that only HSV could have seats like that. And that any other car is a wannabe.

Perhaps next time holden should send a memo around.

The title says it all … how can you not like the look of the TRD Aurion as the pictures look good.

Is being FWD the only critism most people have got against this car. What about the fact that is looks good, goes good, handles good, brakes good and built good. I say good job Toyota and look forward to more after the Hilux release.

dir – spot on champ
Mitch – of course this is advertising. How else is Toyota gonna promote thier new brand… durr

Put it this way, i’ve had enough of Wheels promoting Holden. Gotta even the playing field somehow.

Good sight Australian Car Advice. Shall visit again sometime.

But from previous Blogs where the subject has been a particular Toyota/TRD…
most of the comments haven’t actually been about the “Car” but more about Ford and Holden equivalents

There are actually more comments about Toyotas on Blogs relating to various Fords and Holdens..

So really Toyotas are the most commented off-topic cars rather than commented on-topic.

Why is that?

Seagull, i guess there are alot of girly pink HSV’s running around then. Toyota being the most discussed wether on or off topic just goes to show they have an impact on the market. Good to see.

I like it…front still not sold on at all. Back, side, inside is sweet as. Gotta laugh at some who ridicule that still a Camry. Times are a changing and big bold silly petrol guzzlers like Falcon and Commodore on wane….OH WHAT A FEELING?

Anti spam word is FPV……..fancy that!

TP.What more could you want? RWD! It hardly is in contention against real performance RWD cars….is it!

Anyone know if they are running one of these in Targa Tasmania?

TP.I don’t mind the look of it NM also, but yet it seems hard for you to say a good thing ever about Australia’s real Muscle Cars.

Bilstein…….good shocks by the way but bad judgement,how many have they sold ? Please don’t take HSV and FPV so lightly……Holden and Ford have had a long history of racing heritage in this Country something TRD have not as yet…….don’t count your chickens before there hatched!

One day it may come out as a Seagull……….

Where you been honey………..was wondering when you would add you 2 bobs worth!

I think its best we just start cutting and pasting previous posts on this if we should wish to start down the same old road!

Brembos……..look out BMW too are about to mount them up!

mmmmmmmmm.I think we will all join you on that one! Sent you a message you get it? Just to you!xxx

Andrew … single example but the latest although i openly admit FPV barkes are inspire more confidence then those found on HSV’s.

Wheels January 2008 page 97 states as follows :

Of the three, it’s the hard hitting Falcon that lacks the braking punch to back it’s raw speed. The Ford’s vented discs are just 3mm smaller up front and actually 18mm larger at the rear than the Aurion’s, but they do a less impressive job of scrubbing of speed. The relatively high-kilometer test car also had a slighty spongy pedal feel that did not inspire total confidance when hualing 1700kg of flying Falcon back down from 170km/h. We also noticed a mildly unsettling twitch and shimmy from the rear end as weight transferred forwards under big stops.

and more :

Accelerating is one thing, but pulling up quite another. The Aurion matches its swift turn of speed with impressively stable and sure-footed stopping power, it’s 325mm vented front discs clamped firmly by twin piston calipers, while the rear 310mm discs make brilliantly effective use of a single piston caliper. Infact, the TRD brakes are a standout aspect of the overall dynamic package, boasting superb feel and a linearity of response that makes them a pleasure to use.

dont bother about searching the shed.
i have already heard the comments on the HSV so you need not bother trying to prove something to me i also have read.

just interested though have you or anyone seen actual braking tests measured in metres?

we always see acceleration times proudly displayed how about 0-100 and back again times to give manufacturers something to brag about and improve on.

the only ones that usually get published are the porsche figures.
i cant remember what their time is but it is amazing how quick it pulls up. perhaps spend your time in the shed and see if you can find that one
it was bloody impressive though when i heard it

Outside sort of looks OK but that interior – Yuk !

Looks like what it is, a tarted up Camry. It is still has nasty wobbly cheap feeling controls. Adjust the climate control knobs, then go and try the same in, say, a VW Golf and feel the quality difference…

Just why do Toyota use a mix of different sized dash displays in a combination of LED and LCD’s ? – it looks cheap…

Of course then you drive it and feel the… Torque Steer – urgh…

No thanks…

Andrew re torque steer I didnt say it doesnt have it… but the new Mitsuibishi Lancer with a tiny 120kw and 200NMm is said to have some torque steer! Dont evne mention Fords XR5 turbo and the like! To get 241kw and 400Nm in FWD, with not an excessive amount of torque steer (as the author highlights and owners have said… hold the steering wheel, your not going to be pulled off the road like an Astra), is something only Toyota could do! Its a testament to their engineering.

I also agree strongly with points made re brake fade, everyone knows when you add more power to a vehicles its crucial to add stopping power…. there is NO point having loads of power in a ‘performance’ car if the thing cant stop, thats just dangerous. So given this you could easily say that the TRD is competitive. The Typhoon in terms of performance Im not going to attack, its better then the TRD… I wont deny this, but the TRD is a slightly differetn market who wants more refinement and currently at least, more features (may change with Orion for Typhoon).

Andrew – torque steer in the TRD Aurion will only be evident under hard acceleration just like brake fade in HSV’s will only be evident under hard braking after a few practices. All i am trying to do is highlight that HSV and FPV have thier negative traits aswell so bare that in mind when passimg comment on the TRD Aurion in the future.

Now that the negatives and positives of each company have been discussed, i can only hope that some people start acknowledging the TRD Aurion more then what they have done so to date because as far as i am concerned it a damn good first effort from TRD Australia and hopefully there will be alot more coming our way from them.

TP,
my point is in road conditions HSV brakes are fine as is torque steer in the TRD.
brake fade in the HSV’s was under constant braking from 170kmh!!!!!!
is that road conditions??
HSV brake fade wont show up in the streets either.
you some how fail to see my point

Everyone bags the red seats… the same coloured seats as the S4.

But alas the S4 isn’t a toyota so we shan’t bag that. :p

nah……..
i havent seen any red interiors that look nice

i for one have said i hate it in the HSV’s too so dont get so paranoid.

Alborz … thankyou for your opinion. Now lets here from one of the parties in your office that does like the TRD Aurion and thier reasons as to why the do.

I have respectively requested to keep this even were possible.

Can you honestly suggest to me that your left foot wouldn’t be hurting after a few laps in a HSV ??

With all due respect, you are a motoring journalist of your own opinions and now i will provide some opinions of that from Sean Poppit

Wheels January 2008 page 99 :

Exhibiting a sweet mix of body control and ride comfort, the Aurion dealt deftly with all that was thrown at it, prompting our testers to comment that the transformation from soggy Toyota rep-mobile to taut, eager sports sedan is nothing short of remarkable. Deputy editor Taylor observed :

” if you hadn’t told me, i’d have never known it was riding on 19s. It’s undoubtedly taut and a bit stiff, but the trade-off is right on the money for dynamic ability and bump blotting”.

On a good bit of road the Aurion proved it’s ability to carve corners with remarkable alacity, sitting flat mid-bend and charging out of apexes with a flurry of contained wheelspin. The chassis is reponsive, and the grip levels hugely impressive, the latter due to no small part of the excellent Dunlop rubber. Combine this with an engine that delivers instant throttle reponse and the sort of ferociously linear power delivery that only a supercharger can – even if sounding a tad vacuum cleaner like in the process – and it all comes together as a thoroughly convincing and remarkably well integrated performance package.

Alborz … The TRD Aurion is not as big or as heavy as any FPV or HSV. I stated i was going to siff threw boxes in the shed to find a particular article about a shootout of 20 performance cars that some readers might recall.

Well, i haven’t done that yet due to sporting commitments with my children this weekend but i clearly recollect that the HSV example dropped out at a dismal 18th position because it suffered from brake fade after a single lap. As far as i am concerned, no track orintated car should be doing such a thing. I also recall critism because of tyre issues associated with the size and weight of the car.

From my experiance at track street meets, i have witnessed more then i can mention power steering failures, over heating engines, general failings and brake related matters more commonly with HSV models then any other while Ford has a better track record in this manner.

I’ll know my pocket would be hurting if i had a HSV.

I wonder if there’ll be a team at the Bathurst 12 hour with a TRD? I can tell you it won’t do very well.

Oz, were is your evidance of that. Assumptions hold no weight just life proven outcomes. Neil Bates and team are planning on racing the TRD Street Racing example at many meetings beginning with Targa Tasmania in April. Good driver in a good car, should do good.

I also believe alot of other people let this site down aswell. Regardless of subject, it has came to my attention in the past week or so that the same mob (people) are in full swing to discredit Toyota in any shape or form no matter what and individuals like that ruin posts.

Bavarian, i would be confident to suggest that most pockets would hurt more over the average life of a HSV then just about any other maker of performance cars.
They are not reliable or dependable compared to the investment they can set buyers back. I would prefer to spend a little more and have greater piece of mind.

Bilstein, look at older Toyota posts and look what he says about the F6X.

Bilstein says…….

Bavarian, I would be confident to suggest that most pockets would hurt more over the average life of a HSV then just about any other maker of performance cars.
They are not reliable or dependable compared to the investment they can set buyers back. I would prefer to spend a little more and have greater piece of mind.

Ummm based on what? My point was that the TRD is over priced for the category it goes up against…. HSV and FPV it isn’t !

Performance wise it goes up against the XR8……and with the new model soon to be released with 290 kws …..it won’t meet that market any more either .I am guessing FORD will keep its price close to the current XR8 which will make the TRD even worse value.Bang for Buck it doesn’t win!

BTW – Just had another look on http://www.australianmusclecars.com.au and found a VL Walkie with only 500Kms on it for $260;000

A car for Toyota Fanatics only. Cheap arse front drive, REAR drive saved for Lexus.

exterior is not bad! But it still isnt up to HSV/FPV toughness looks(the FPV at the moment though doesnt look tough at all) centre console looks exactly the same with all aurions!

TP,
What would you prefer a HSV GTS or a FPV GT?

TP “embaress myself”? Oh well it’s good you’re trying to change after the “Toyota Paul” days.

You obviously don’t watch Top Gear that mush than TP – Is that because they have never had a Camry on the show?

I mean here are 3 Motoring Enthusiasts/Journalists all with different attitudes/opinions etc who have had the opportunity to drive the best performance cars Europe and even the US have to offer

Yet when the VE VXR8 not to mention the VXR Monaro] arrived at the Top gear track.. they were impressed with what we convicts have been able to produce.. so much so that the Monaro was placed in the Sub Zero fridge along with the Aston martin DB9 on the Top Gear Cool Wall

If you want to see for yourself how well the Holdens went against the euros I believe that there are several pieces of footage on You Tube.

Joel – Sad when Holden (and Ford) find it necessary to keep everbody out of Supercars

I suggest you obtain a copy of the V8 Supercars Rules and Regulations.. then you will see that Ford and Holden aren’t keeping anyone out of the V8 Supercar Competition.

Anyone is welcome by AVESCO to join provided they build a car which meets there preset criteria [which every other form of motorsport also has] which is:
The Car must be built in Australia
It must be a Family Size [large] Sedan
It must be Rear Wheel Drive
It must use a 5.0 Litre V8 which produces 620-700Bhp
It miust weigh 1500Kgs
And fairly soon…. Use a Sequential 6 Speed Gearbox

If Toyota are/were willing to turn the Avalon.. oops I mean Aurion into a RWD and leave the Camry as a FWD then I’m sure that AVESCO would welcome them [as would a number of fans]
AVESCO did ask Toyota [and Mitsubishi] if it wanted to Join a couple of years ago but they said no as they would rather sink billions into F1 and try to compete with the establishment that is Ferrari

Because unlike F1 which is run hby Ferrari for Ferrari the rules in V8s are determined by AVESCO

Have a quick skirt in a car is one point but ownership experiance is an entire different world. I bet these journos won’t be quite so impressed when they start falling about prematurely. Probably then they’ll come out of the freezer and into the bin.

IS there anything else you sad people can talk about bar HSV’s or is that pretty much the limit with Holden. One good car and all the rest are sh*t. Sad company for sad people.

Believe me, i ain’t no proud convict of no Holden. Holden has produced some of the most horrid cars ever but i don’t see you people talking about them. Why not exactly!!

If you want a REAL PERFORMANCE car that will last for ever in a day and not just for a quick squirt, don’t buy a Holden that’s for bloody sure. As far as performance cars go, they would have be amoung the worst quality with the worst reliability of any. It’s all great until they starting packing it in which is an all to common accurance may i remind you.

Be interesting to see how these HSV’s and FPV’s shape up to the IS-F when it lands on our shores. Watch the trembling lips then when they struggle to grasp with adequate excuses. If you want a real car then get a real car and stay away from Holden.

Bavarian

Naa – that is fact. Whats wrong, don’t like a good ole crack of truth.

Lets face it, no matter wether Toyota does things first, second, third or tenth – they seem to striking the right cords no matter what. Each company have thier own agenda and it appears Toyota’s seems to be one of the best going at the moment, wouldn’t you think.

Funny how you people are going on about how great HSV/FPV performance cars are despite the fact they are only re-hashed family cars especially after considering your spill about doing things first, second and so on.

Joel,
thats one place where i agree,
toyota has the better corporate tree.

i think ford are starting to screw their head on in a corporate way now too. evidence of this is ford AUS designing the world platform and ford AUS taking on the V6

holden is heading there too but unfortunately they went down the daewoo path that now has them backpeddling after poor consumer response

Wheelnut, you now as much as myself why AVESCO have gone about establishing the rules the way they have because it minimizes the chances of any other entering the ring.

It also appears Supercar Racing is having no effect on the recognition of Falcons and Commodores because i have never seen thier sales so low.

Here is a snippet to prove you wrong

Wheels November 2006 page 9 from Ged Bulmer.

No-one doubts for a moment that Toyota, or Mitsubishi for that matter, could build highly competitive cars to the V8 Supercar formula. Infact, given it’s status as the world’s most profitable car maker, concerns about the depth of Toyota’s pockets is probably the real reason for it being denied access to v8 racing. That, and the fact that series organiser AVESCO would think carefully indeed about revisiting those days in the early 90s when the all-conquering Nissan Skyline GTR’s mercilessly crushed the aspirations of local V8 fans.

Mmmm…. that appears different to your explanation. What gives !

repeat :

” concerns about the depth of Toyota’s pockets is probably the REAL REASON for it being DENIED access to v8 racing”

Andrew, are you talking to me about not being interested in motorsport because i hope you are not.

I love motorsport with a passion but only wish Super Cars in Australia had alot more competitors then just Holden and Ford because like myself, not everybody is into those two brands.

For your information i follow WRC and ARC (a strong standing from the Corolla there),NASCAR, Truck Racing and F1 not to mention Drags and the Speedway. Infact, just went to the Speedway last night.

Judging by pre-season testings and the fact that Toyota has now snuffled some very strong teams from GM including Gibbs Racing – thier season is looking very promising and hopefull will do well for themselves.

So pull that head or yours out from under a rock and stop thinking other people ain’t into motorpsort because they don’t follow Supercars. You are a sad, sad person and a very silly one at that.

I love motorpsort but i just ain’t into no Holden or Ford, i want better.

Did anyone else notice that Joel ; who apparently loves motorsport. Forgot to mention V8 Supercars..

Which in a way backs up my arguement that unless you read the Rules and Regulations of the sport [or any other sport for that matter] you aren’t really qualified to comment about anything that relates to it..

Because if you are that interested in something surely you would find out all you could about it.

Joel…good so watch the performance car series………Andrew is not sad or silly……..just fed up with people that complain about the V8s ……..So where are your facts…back them up!Im always in for a good argument!

TP why are you eager to see the IS-F………what you think it will beat Europe’s best ….hahaha. Weight of the IS-F 1714 kgs…{not far off HSV and FPV}no wonder they need 5 litres and only produce 300 kws against M3 4.0litre at 308kws and a weight of 1580kgs…….yep I know it has more torque but with that weight on that chassis against the best good luck! Seems like Lexus are gunning for all the benchmarks……including Japans own GT-R ….good luck….

Throw some of those air bags, electric gadgets and think about making a performance car before gadgets on wheels and you may start to enter the Performance Car Circuit! Love to see the IS-F in the Performance car series against the new BMW M3 and F6……..HAHAHA

Wheelnut – you are one weak prick.

Did everybody else notice that Andrew hasn’t replied to my quoated comment from Wheels about Toyota being denied access to V8 Supercars. You are starting to sound much like Holden and Ford when they got kicked on the mountain.

Shape up all tough from the beginning then float around like a butterfly when the going gets tuff. Your coming undone and hitting back with nothing.

Let me tell you what, i have an early start tomorrow so i will go to bed now and let you mumble away with what ever Andrew mumbles away with and i will pay another visit at a later date when i have more time. That way you can say a few things without a reply from myself and feel all good and gooey for awhile.

TP – keep up the good work mate.

I am hoping that’s not you Dingo cause it seems you have started using language to defend yourself……….mmmmm

Bavarian – been on this site for one day and have no idea who dingo is, please inform me. I was wondering when you people were gonna start adding price to the equation because it doesn’t seem to be a bother otherwise until things head south. Talking earlier about Astons, BMWs and what not but now want to distant the arguement with price differance. How all to convenient.

ahhhhhhhh.that was the cool wall…..honey!

Well why dont you type Dingo into search section at the top and it will bring up his posts….oh and by the way hes now banned for abusing people you may want to keep that in mind! Wheelnut is a well regarded poster on this site for over 10 months as you say you have been here for a day!We people are not hard to get along with just hate extremists like TP who sees no bad in Toyota almost! My Mum once said to me if you lay down with dogs you will wake up with fleas…..If your smart enough Im sure you will work that out for yourself. Oh and before you start calling me a wanker….I am a female….thought you would like to know….you joined the Forum….most of the other Toyota extremist havent …..its the one place we go where you don’t have to face abuse and you can talk about cars…Thank god!

What really detracts from the interior is that on the leading edge right at the bottom of the right hand side lumbar support of the drivers seat..
there is a little bit of what appears to be black felt stuck on the seat which I take it is to stop the seatbelt from rubbing.. which is all well and good but if you are going to offer colour coded interior such as this; why not make the padding the same colour.

This bit makes the interior look even more tacky..

Unless of course its a tear which doesn’t say much for Toyotas reputatuon for quality

The black felt (if we are talking on the same page) is to provide extra grip to the driver, unlike leather which can slip. I personally am not a fan of the red, but the seats look and ARE very comfy.

Phil thats interesting logic, if they were worried about reliabilty why would they enter any? I think you are making assumptions which are no doubt incorrect.

No I’m talking about the little bit right on the edge where the lumbar supports meet the side panels – just above the plastic moulding which hides the seat mountings and runners NOT the Black panels either side of the back support

Too right Andrew M.

I think Mitsubishi would have been a good chance in the V8s Particularly after seeing what Street Machiner; Darryl McBeth did to the last model Magna [before the 380]

He turned it from your average FWD V6 sedan into show-stopping Hemi Powered RWD coupe – He’s the same guy who built the Xplod Commodore Panelvan.

Wheelnut,
That little bit of fabric is a label. Don’t know what it says though.
The interior is way too in your face, and I think is an attempt to offset the limits of the exterier set by the bland styling of the base design.

TP,
i just had another look,
it could be an airbag tag i suppose but it looks like the airbag sticker is on the door pillar. also usually it is pressed into the side plastic moulding if they want to show it off.

my money is on it being a leather tag saying something like “100% leather” or something like that. you get the same sort of tags on leather lounges.

Neil Bates was supposted to drive one

well can some one with a bit more computer “flair” than me try and zoom in on it?

my money is on a 100% leather tag or something like that

^^^^^
yes Dingo……….

mate ill do it when i feel like it, not when you want me to.
hell i have other stuff to do so ill have to note it in my diary and slot it in where i have spare time.
ill let you know when i have made an appointment for further gathering of evidence.

oh so where is your source that toyota isnt allowed to compete? you are the one that made those claims and havent yet proved them. go check out the rule books and get back to me with the page no. and quote while you are waiting for me

The reason that CAMS changed the category from Group A Touring Cars which included the Sierras and GT-Rs
was because the popularity of the sport was falling.. which I admit was mainly due to the Dominance of the GT-R.

Having said that during the period of the GT-Rs
I [as a flaggie] saw very few Nissan fans actually at the track. Surely as their beloved GT-Rs asserted their superiority over the Holden and Fords you would expect Nissan fans would want to be part of the action and their numbers to increase.. but no; they were still in the minority

So even though Ford and Holden were being beaten at least we can say we made the effort to be there

However; it was apparent that something hd to be done in order to rectify the situation. A number of other proposals/formulas were considered.
Yet it was decided that [as in most sports] nothing beats the traditional rivalry between two opposing sides.. that’s what really draws the crowds.

Over the years the category has become more popular more successful which is probably why AVESCO made the desicion to approach Mitsubishi and Toyota.. they were confident that the sport could/should include the other 2 local manufacturers.. Both of which said NO

wheelnut,
correction,
mitsubishi was actually interested.
mitsu heads had many meetings with the board in trying to develop a proposal to put forward.
mitsu at one point looked like getting in on the ’04 season.
neither side had actually officially submitted a proposal for entry.
mitsu who was pretty damn keen to get in had their efforts ended by a sudden downfall in their financial situation

Doesnt matter if they had a V12…. an ugly 380 is an ugly 380.

Oh and Joel I found that link for Andrew but its still being moderated.Now if you joined the Form I could PM it too you!mmm

To cut and paste it would be a bit much!

Look out for some cut and pasting then Joel…….got your beer in hand and legs on the desk for a good read?

Ok check your stash of V8X——-Issue 15 2003

Quote

\”Mitsubishi Motors Australia and Toyota Australia have both been sniffing around the ever burgeoning championship over the last few years, and of the two Mitsubishi is the one showing the most interest right now.
Click for larger image
Peter Muir\’s Magna Future Tourer shows that a Magna can be converted into a V8 Supercar quite easilly.

But the reality is neither Japanese-owned car company is likely to approach AVESCO about getting involved in the V8 fight in the near future.
And even if they did AVESCO says it\’s unsure how it would respond. It knows what it wants from a new manufacturer but even if all the prerequisites are agreed to there are still no guarantees.

Certainly, if Ford and Holden have their way there\’s no hope of Mitsubishi or Toyota getting onto the grid, but a pitlane poll of the Level One teams revealed a more mixed response, not forgetting that some of them could be beneficiaries of new manufacturers arriving in the sport.

But, as we said, the issue probably won\’t even arise for a few years yet. It\’s all to do with the irresistible turnover of models that drives the car industry. Mitsubishi\’s Magna is due for replacement in 2005 and could not see track time before 2006, Toyota is on roughly the same timing and it isn\’t even sure which of its two possible new generation cars it would race – the Camry or the Avalon.

In fact, V8 Supercar barely registers on Toyota\’s radar right now, and we\’ve dealt with why that is on page 60. So let\’s concentrate on Mitsubishi.

Continuing on

Quote ”

The Adelaide-based manufacturer has been quietly building up its V8 Supercar knowledge base and making discreet enquiries since 2001. Two of the company’s executives have driven that interest – much of time unofficially. They are former GTP racer Rob Chadwick and product PR and special vehicles boss Kevin Taylor.

Chadwick, an engineer, approached the issue from a technical perspective, and is extremely confident about how well a Magna could be adapted to the regulations and how it could Perform.
Stephen Kruk

Ford
“I think the V8 Supercar formula that is currently Ford and Holden has been voted by the customers as the preferred formula. I think it is very clear that it is the blue team playing the red team, those cars are very relevant to everybody and I think that is what captures the imagination and what captures the interest.”

Taylor was excited by the marketing prospects of a Magna V8 Supercar. Eventually the two discovered they were thinking about the same destination, just along different tracks.

Their enthusiasm and determination has rubbed off on others at MMAL, to the point that both managing director Tom Phillips and sales and marketing executive vice-president Bill Pike are keen on a V8 Supercar program.

That’s saying something. Neither is a big motor racing fan and both were at Toyota in the days when the decision was taken twice to defer making a bid to enter Australia’s premier racing category.
Click for larger image
The big question is if Mitsubishi or Toyota get involved with V8 Supercars will the Australian public accept it?

Right now it appears Mitsubishi is deferring as well – although not through the same lack of enthusiasm that seems to infect Toyota’s top echelons. It’s money and timing. If you’re going to invest the millions of dollars necessary to get a V8 Supercar effort to the grid, better to do it with a bodyshape that’s going to be around for a while.

The all-new Magna replacement due to be launched some time in 2005 will probably be around for eight years – sure it will change a lot in terms of front and rear graphics over that time but the fundamental shape will stay the same. And the new car will be dramatically different from the ageing current model, which began its life back in 1996.

There is a facelift coming for the current Magna this year. Codenamed XR, it will be a substantial change that will get it through to the all-new model. There was a chance that Mitsubishi would get that car on the grid in 2004, but the window of opportunity appears to be gone.

“I think the deadline for 2004 for us passed about one-and-a-half to two months ago,” admitted Pike in mid-April.

For all the hard work by Chadwick and Taylor, Pike is the key player in any MMAL V8 Supercar plan. Sure, Phillips has given the concept the thumbs up, but it’s Pike’s budget that would have to be raided to the tune of $10 million in start-up funds alone.

And if there’s no sponsorship found, no partnerships established, no merchandising returns, he stands the chance of wearing the lot. It’s a big call.

And when you consider AVESCO’s requirements of a minimum five-year two-team deal then the potential numbers just continue to escalate. Pike himself bullishly says Mitsubishi would be in for 10 years if it committed. It’s still a big if …

Like Taylor and Chadwick, Phillips and Pike recognise V8 Supercar represents an opportunity to energise the company’s image and sales, which have suffered from the ‘cardigan’ image in the long-term and been belted from pillar to post more recently by speculation about the closure of the Adelaide manufacturing operations.

Ok this may take a while………if I remove the
www from the front of the link you do a search with it.

That may make things easier that another 5 posts of what happened in an article that you doubted Andrew had!

.v8x.com.au/cms/A_30451/article.html

Happy reading………

Bavarian – good reading, i like it.

It goes to a certain extent of answering my own questions as the resistance from Holden and Ford is once again brought to attention. As much as Holden and Ford love to compare thier performance breed cars to others, at the same time they are not so willing to share that same enthusiasm on the track.

Why would that be ??

As much as i critise Holden and Ford for thier often sour sportsmanship like practices such as resistance for other competitors to enter V8 Supercars, i also equally believe that most car companies in Australia are not particularly interested either but i certainly look forward to the day ‘when’ not ‘if’ the push is ignited by whoever.

Here is my unsupported belief.

Considering Holden and Ford have the race on Sunday and sell on Monday championship underwraps for the time being, it appears that it is having little or no effect on thier current sales as not only does the Commodore and Falcon continue decline but more rather thier fleet/range in general. Take Toyota for instance, thier only presance in motorsport in Australia is ARC (that they dominate over Ford, Subaru and Mitsubishi as the other competitors) which is of little recognition compared to V8 Supercars yet are able to outsell Holden and Ford combined on some months without such recognition, so nodoubt Toyota is asking themselves … why bother !

i actually didnt find it in a V8X mag although if i looked further i suppose i would find it there too.

the first one i laid my hands on was “Motorsport News”
No.231 may15-28 2002

here is one quote (and fair too) regarding Joels last post

“the 2 manufacturers we have got earned their right to be there”
“which would appear to be a nice way of saying, holden and ford have spent millions on this and the price of admission for a new make would reflect this. expect an entry price somewhere in the single figure millions”

also mate the fans got upset at gentleman jim not purely because he won in a nissan but also compounded even more so by the fact he was awarded the win whilst crashed on the side of the track!!! even Jim Richards didnt think he had won and admitted it in the press conferences.

so who did the crowd think had won???? Dick Johnson.
so it was made even worse by a crashed car ruled the winner over the “Big Hero” DJ.

so there you go it wasnt just pure bad sportsmanship from the fans

AH i found it……….my article goes a bit more into explaining the commitments that would be required
QUOTE…….

“AVESCO would require two commitments from any new manufacturer;
one of time,with a likely minimum commitment
and one of the number of cars. should a company like Mitsubishi show up with a big budget two car team, hire the best drivers on the market and out spend its rivals, win a championship and then disappear, there would likely be a significant backlash from the existing teams”

Andrew – as many excuses on AVESCO’s behalf that can be made, it doesn’t change the facts that they have gone about engineering entry requirements that will most likely deter most manufactuers based upon the size and limited potential profits to be made in a market as small as that of our own. As i have said, very cunny on thier behalf but also very smart.

I have a cast model replica of the Bathurst winning GTR in my possession but currently packed away as we just made a baby room out of our spare as we are expecting our 2nd child in roughly 2 weeks so i can not quote the exact statement (unless i am forced to drag it out of my boxes) but with it came a story about the GTR exsistance at Bathurst.

To cut along story short, from the original GTR – they were forced on 3 occassions to limit the competitive nature of the Nissan until it came within the limits of the Commodore and Falcon. The first two limitations were associated with adding extra weight to the car and the third was enforced upon them to tone down the psi (boost) of the turbo.

So, it wasn’t just the last resort of forcing Nissan out all together but the fact is, Nissan had continued restictions applied to them until thier original specificatations had been artificially erroded… how sad.

Some may recall the fantastic Ford Cosworth Sierra. Basically it’s days were ended when the same mob enforced a single turbo restriction instead of it’s original two.

Lets just face it, the overseas competitors of the time were penalised until they were squeezed out of the competition and therefore Holden and Ford were thrown a lifeline in an effort to save face.

That to me will always be remembered when i hear Holden and Ford going on about thier cars. If they are supposedly so great then start inviting competitors to the track instead of offering stiff resistance. Actions have always spoken much louder then any words.

Great looking car that handles, goes and stops with rigour. Pleasant interior and nodoubt of high quality and refinement. Hope TRD do well in Oz. Joel, good reading.

cheers

Bret, you make a very good point and a worthwhile at that. Truthfully, Toyota and Mitsubishi most likely have no current interests but if they ever did display any such intentions, AVESCO has gone about engineering thier regs in any effort that it will most likey deter any such enteries.

As i commented above, Holden and Ford were thrown a lifeline by succesfully squeezing the Nissan GTR and Ford Sierra out of contention by restricting thier competitive nature.

To me, no excuse will justify the actions of the motor-racing body in the past or the fact that Holden and Ford display stiff resistance while AVESCO has played it for them.

As i mentioned earlier, Holden and Ford are all to willing to compare thier performance breed machines in comparo’s but don’t share the same level of enthusiasm when it comes to inviting competitors to the track but rather offer resistance instead … plain, simple and no BS.

Joel,
Not quite correct. I think that you are a little shy on some of the facts. AVESCO as a company was FORMED along with the V8 Supercars series. This series was formed in ’97 and has the status of Australian Touring car Championship. AVESCO (or actually V8 Supercars Australia) is joint a partnership between TEGA and Sports Entertainment Ldt. Tega is the teams, drivers etc. The current series is NOT the same competition that you claim squeezed out particular cars. Heck, even “Bathurst” was not V8 supercars the first year of the series. And NOBODY went!

Nobody set about to exlude any particular manufaturer, only to create a successful formula. Ford and Holden just happened to be the only manufactuters who put up money.

To suggest that the two brands are “scared” of being beaten on the track is just plain stupid. It is a formula competition, limits are placed on many parameters, many items are “control” items, testing is restricted. This is all to contain costs to within a certain budget. Beyond that budget bucket loads of cash actually do little. Manufaturers themselves do little in the way of development for the series, it is the teams within the sport that produce developments that increase speed and reliability of thier race cars.
Any manufacturer with an appropriate car on sale domestically can approach a team owner and say race ours.
Ford and Holden DO NOT control who enters what.

Quote [Joel]:

A worthwhile example to raise is why has AVESCO implemented a threshold requirement that 2 teams must run for a minimum of five years because as far as i am concerned it will most likely (as it has appeared so) eliminate any enticement to a degree so therefore have implemented this for good reasons and that most certainly would not have been to be in favour of any potential startup.

I doubt that any manufacturer [be it Toyota or Ferrari]would bother investing the millions of doolars required to set up and run a racing team in any form of motorsport for less than 5 years.

Even if Toyota wanted to enter the V9 Supercars.. which they are allowed to; and have been invidted to do so..

It would probably take them the same amount of time to develop a car [Aurion] which would be able to compete on equal terms with the Fords and Holdens as they have in F1..

I don’t think the fans were p—ed off at Jim Richards or mark Skaife winning in 92.. afterall the fans respect both of theses fine drivers.. Particularly “Gentleman Jim”

I feel the fans were didn’t really understand the Red Flag rule – which is understandable as there are some in race control who don’t really understand it either.

As Tim Schenken said under the Red Flag rule the stewards revert back to the previous completed lap at which point the GT-R was leading [DJ passed the GT-R as it left the track going down conrod].

Mind you there were those who believe that the decision to Red Flag the Race was a case of Premature Adjudication as less than 10 minutes later [in typical bathurst style}the rain had stopped
Therefore; they could have used the pace car.. yet unfortunately those in race control aren’t sure how to use that either

Wheelnut, Toyota hasn’t been invited and nor will they be. F1 has proven a difficult task but it’s engineering prowness is much above the technical challenges of V8 Supercars.

2007 was Toyota’s debut season in NASCAR and achieved some sound results with expectations and confidance running much higher for this season with the securement of some very strong teams from traditional GM alignments. The best example of all has been the coming onboard of Gibbs Racing with pre-season testing returning highly competitive results with the strongest times of all.

Because of the experianced teams that Toyota has been able to secure away from GM and the pre-season development of thier cars, engines etc – the eyes are very much focused on Toyota for the 2008 NASCAR season and by all reports i have read, should do well for themselves – only time will tell but i hope they do.

If Toyota did enter V8 Supercars it’ll probably be based upon a Lexus platform such as the GS or possibly the IS and the odds are they’ll develop a highly competitive team considering the value they have gained from thier involvement in F1.

If Toyota did enter the V8 Supercars it would have to be based on the Aurion Platform and use the Aurion Body because the regulations state

The cars must be based on an Australian Built Family Sized RWD Sedan.. NOT Japanese or American.

Wheelnut, no it is not AVESCO’s fault that Toyota isn’t in V8 Supercars at this stage because i believe Toyota has little or no interest but if any manufactuer did display intentions then current regs would certainly not do any favours to entice new comers to the track nor would Holden and Ford with thier resistance.

It is not about whinging, it’s about putting forward reality events with facts so that hopefully people will take it onboard and learn. Personally, it doesn’t bother me wether Toyota enters Supercars or not but rather achieve results in the other global events they have taken onboard with continued and hopefully greater recognition with ARC over the coming years.

IF Holden and Ford RWD V8 performance cars are so good then surely they would be enthusiastic about other manufactuers entering the game but as i have now commented on several occassions – they don’t share that same level commitment as they do with quick shootouts from various automotive media groups. Why is that !!

Also, judging by the declining sales of the Commodore and Falocn as with the fleet of Holden and Ford in general, it very much appears that thier exposure to V8 Supercars is doing little to improve thier slump considering Toyota can now outsell the combined results of the other 2 on given months without such recognition.

Wheelnut, we can do without the mind possession games.

The majority of Toyota’s sales is made up of their commercial vehicles – Hi-Ace; Landcruiser/Prado etc.. of which there are no real direct rivals from Ford or Holden

Yet with Family Sedans such as the Aurion [which this Blog is supposed to be about] The Commodore and Falcon are still outselling the Aurion – oh and that’s NOT including HSV or FPVs Record sales

I think its pretty obvious that Toyota have no intnetion of entering V8 Supercars. Not Because:

they’re not allowed to enter – they are.
fans don’t want them – there are some that do.
Ford and Holden don’t want them – They couldn’t stop them

But because Toyota Don’t:

build a car which meets the criteria/specifications.
see it as a worthwhile venture – and F1 was?

Joel,
mate if you want my reference perhaps you better stop being bitter about it and read the reference i gave you.

oh and we are all still waiting to see your proof that they arent allowed to enter.

also have you heard of the “Performance car series” yet?
that is where you see stock cars from many manufacturers racing including HSV’s. go check it out and then tell me the big HSV’s up front are scared of the imports in the series.

also Mitsubishi had actually displayed how easy it would be to develop a RWD V8 Magna. they actually had one racing at the time when mitsubishi was keen on the subject.
once again check out “motorsport news”
No.231 may15-28 2002.

in there they detail exactlly how easy it would be to develop a RWD Magna and even more so when you consider that the holdens and fords dont even run stock drive gear.
whether it is a ford, holden or even toyota they would all have to run a ford 9″ to get the power to the wheels

it has been proven that it isnt that hard to develop these FWD cars into an eligible entrant.

mate the real reason is that toyota just isnt interested!!!!! deal with it.
all the race teams have to build the whole car from a shell they get delivered so dont try and tell me its really restrictive towards Mitsu and Toyota

TP,
power in the road going Magna would change when they throw the V8 in it i would think……
also the magna at the time of its near entry actually outpowered the commodore and the video you showed us a while back actually has the 380 out running the commodore doesnt it?

oh and also at the time where mitsu was going to enter the category, toyotas entry would have been the Avalon. you want to talk about ugly cars????

Andrew – stop with the dribble because thats all it is. Facts remain, the Ford Sierra’s and Nissan GTR’s were squeezed from the competition because they neatly destroyed the aspirations of the locals … pure and simple

Now, todays regulations employed by AVESCO have gone about it in such a manner that it will most likely (as it seems) deter most potential competitors from joining and that is bluntly obvious. No amount of dribble alters that.

Out of the four local manufactuers in Australia until recently with the dismise of Mitsubishi, why is that AVESCO adopted the RWD V8 policy in with full understanding that Mitusbishi and Toyota as the other local manufactuers don’t exhibit such traits locally. If either of them were to join then the most likely choice they would persue is force inducted 6 cyl’s mated to an AWD system but judging by AVESCO’s own requirements – have they factored in such potentials … NO ! It has all been establsihed in favour of Holden and Ford with little or no consideration with how the other 2 local manufactuers would have prefer to establish thier cars especially considering they are /were locals as well.

And were are those referances i am still waiting for.

Bret – lets just cut the crap about jealousy, do research, accept facts and what ever else people like yourself want to through into the pot because it is nothing more then steeping around the subject

As i mentioned earlier, i understand the reasons for AVESCO regulations (to a certain level) and it strikes me as sometwhat coincidental that the requirements have been engineered to a point that it establishes a high probable chance of erroding the intentions of other manufactuers entering the championships.

Two particular examples that come to the forefront the most is the requirement for any new competitor supply a minimum of 2 teams for 5 years and lets be frank about this – the likihood of a any new comer of wishing to follow suit would be remote at the very least.

Secondly, at the time when AVESCO and subsequent legislation was born, there were 4 local manufactuers with only two them suppling V8 RWD’s while the others did not but despite this, the requirements were cemented regardless considering the chances are if Mitsubishi or Toyota expressed intentions they would most likley by all means be more keen to persue a different platform – eg AWD force inducted 6 cyl’s – as it would be more inline with thier front wheel driven 6 cyl capacity cars on offer instead which lack of V8 option.

And once again, there is absolutely no denying that the likes of the Ford Sierra’s and Nissan GTR’s were squeezed from the competition because the governing body of the time continuely imposed restrictions upon the original competitive nature of such cars until they were brought into line with the lesser competition instead of Holden and Ford being forced to improve on thier game instead.

Why were such teams forced to bring the level of professionalism down when the locals should have been forced to take the level up.

Now, this takes me back to one of my original request and that is for Andrew to supply referances that he stated he had and despite several reminders i have witnessed no such thing … why !!

Until then, i have a referance point that challenges AVESCO and until Andrew can follow suit, i will consider his claims as nothing more then bogus.

REPEAT

Wheels November 2006 page 9 by Ged Bulmer :

“The focused purity of Falcon versus Commodore has become one of the sports most enduring and compelling contests, while for Ford and Holden, the ability to play out thier rivalry on TV screens and racetracks around the country feeds directly into sales. ‘The win on Sunday, sell on Monday’ mantra remains alive and well – it seems – all of which goes to explain in part the stiff resistance from both manufactuers to suggestions that the series should be opened up to other players like Toyota for instance”.

continuning :

“No-one doubts for a moment that Toyota,or Mitsubishi for that matter, could build highly competitive cars to the v8 Supercar formula. Infact, given it’s stance as the worlds most profitable car maker, concerns about the depth of Toyota’s pockets is probably the real reason for it being denied access to v8 racing. That, and the fact that series organsier AVESCO would think carefuly indeed about revisiting those days in the early ’90s when the all-conquering Nissan Skyline GTR’s mercilessly crushed the aspirations of local V8 fans”

That said, why don’t you start listening to what others are saying and the facts put forward by myself and do some research that argues against the referance i have been able supply because quite frankly, individuials (Andrew) have not been able to follow suit and supply any counter referances that were cliamed on thier behalf. Unless otherwise, it is pointless to continue this discussion as people like yourself refuse to accept the facts and opinions supplied but more rather put priority on those of your own instead.

Follow suit and supply referances as i have done.

Bret, you are the individual heavily misunderstood here.

Originally the Ford Sierra exhibited a twin turbo setup and was later restricted to a single unit in order to decrease it’s effectiveness and when that rule was implied the Sierra teams packed up and left.

Now – the exact same circumstances accured with the GTR with not one penalty applied but three. The first two penalties to be imposed were manatory weight increases on the car but when that proved less sucessful then anticipated then the booost (psi) were tuned down (restricted) on their turbos.

Now – with such ongoing restrictions that were continually being imposed upon the Sierra’s and GTR’s, you have the ordacity to satte that i am misinformed and preach BS.

There is no rewritting history here as they the factual accurances that undertook place and if you have failed to recognise such history then i suggest you should be the individual conducting research.

Misunderstood … NOT !! Detailing events … ABSOLUTELY.

And one other point of interest, another coincidence with the regs cemented by AVESCO was the mandatory usgage of pushrod V8′s considering Holden and Ford exhibit such aged technology yet Mistusbihi and Toyota had moved upon from such times many years before.

So lets have recapp here … RWD, pushrods, V8 – all aligned with the exhibited traits of holden and Ford. What provisions are/were in place to cater for Mitsubishi and Toyota with thier FWD 6 cylinders (with no v8 optiion)especially considering they are/were local manufactuers aswell.

Just goes to prove my point which direction AVESCO was heavily leaning towards yet individuals like yourself try and convince people that “it’s not like that” … yeah right – get real.

And were are those referances from Andrew i have been continually asking for. I have supplied mine but no action in return … WHY NOT !!

Who is this Dingo character and why am i him ? I take it he stirred the pot sometime ago.

Andrew, your referances are of poor quality and do not challenge Jed Bulmers comments. Any research down memory lane will surely prove the authenticity of my statement and the fact that Holden and Ford in conjunction with AVESCO have been cunny yet extremely smart at erroding the enticement of new comers to the plate.

As i stated on some occassions already, Holden and Ford are willing participants in shoootout comparo’s but don’t share the same level of enthusiasm when it comes to inviting new players to the track. Bad sportsmanship pretty much raps it up with history as undisputable evidance. Gotta love it!

I acknowledge some of the drivers still drive today while others have retired but you get my point and forget the propaganda, corporate barrow crap because no-body is more guilty of this then a typical small minded fan of Holden or Ford.

Again, no excuse changes the events of the past and while the aspirations of the local v8 fans got crushed people like yourself would have been one of those true bad sportsman in life that jumped up and down and cried blue murder because you poor ole folks couldn’t get ‘ya way.

Boo hoo, have another cry why don’t ‘ya. Just can not cope it fair and square can you. Oh yeah – must be equally crushing having Toyota run bullrings around your beloved Holden and Ford companies as they are so easily doing. Infact, it comes as a complete surprise that the red and blue badges haven’t yet tried to get Toyota banned from Australia but i guess wether they like it or not this is one race they are gonna have to run with wether they like it or not – how painful.

Bret – get over this Toyota corporate thing you are stuck on because we are discussing the less then favourable sportsmanship behaviour that has been displayed by Holden and Ford over the years and not corporate T.

For someone who is supposedly interested in Motorsport, i find it somewhat bizzare that you exhibit no knowledge about the actual and factual occurances associated with the Ford Cosworth Sierra and Nissan’s GTR Godillza during that particualr era of Australia Motorsport.

Before we travel any further with this discussion, don’t you dare come back at me until you take the time and effort and conduct some discovering (research) for yourself and then – and only then – you will relise i am not full of BS afterall.

I will await your reply.

ps – what is your age exactly because that might hold the clue why you exhibit limited understanding about the events we are discussing.

yes Dingo,
ah ha, ah ha
get over yourself

Joel, I think people think you are Dingo/Mikka because he used to type “But haa…” exactly the same way you do. Dunno.

Joel, i really want to know who this Dingo fella was. Give me some posts were i dig him up and i’ll have a checkas for myself. Curious !

Dingo posted on….
caradvice.com.au/9627/toyota-to-unveil-trd-hilux-in-brisbane/

Dingo is on blogs.drive.com.au now,

Ok i give up, its me and i,m baaaack an luvn it.
ha ha ha antispammer was lexus ha ha ha

Seems like we miss all three of you? It is you Dingo as even you touched on that yourself! Ha Ha Ha LOL

Cripes….how many in this pack Dingo? No AKA there bud as seems like a mixture.

HSMT 89, try your dealer. Your car dealer, mon.