Strong January sales figures

By Alborz Fallah | February 05th, 2008

The Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries (FCAI) has today announced a promising start to the year for the automotive industry. However the news is not good for locally built vehicles.

Last month Australians bought 82,270 new cars and commercial vehicles, an increase of 6.9 per cent over January 2007, which as a whole, is good indication of things to come.

Nonetheless, FCAI chief executive Andrew McKellar has warned that the 6.9 per cent growth may not reflect in the overall end-of-year figures.

The best segments were light (up 8.4 per cent) and small cars as well as SUVs (up 20 per cent) but the once traditional large vehicle segment continued to decline with a significant 20 per cent reduction in sales compared to last year.

If a 20 per cent decline didn’t sound bad enough, when that figure is examined, the cars that suffer the most are from local manufacturers.

Furthermore, sales of locally manufactured models reduced 11.5 per cent, or 1407 vehicles compared to last January but imported cars increased 10.4 per cent.

“While overall sales are buoyant, the results reinforce the significant competitive challenges facing local manufacturers,” Mr McKellar said.

The local manufacturers gamble to go all-out in the large car segment has not paid off and Mr McKellar is pushing for an early commencement of the Federal Government’s scheduled review of the industry

“The review must play a critical role in ensuring future policy arrangements provide an ongoing basis for a sustainable and competitive automotive manufacturing industry in Australia.”

Other factors such as rising petrol prices and an increase in stamp duty have also played a role in shaping the current market trend.

A recent move by the Queensland Government to increase new-vehicle stamp duty has resulted in just 1.2 per cent growth in the sunshine state, in comparison to the national average rise of 6.9 per cent.

Once again Toyota was the market leader in January, with the four-cylinder Corolla taking the honours as Australia’s best-selling car for the month with 3,843 units. Holden’s Commodore came in second with 3210 units.

Frugal One

****PRIMO!*****

Well done Corolla, POLE!.# 1 in Oz, # 1 worldwide!

Is the BIG car heyday over?

Cheers

F-0
http://impreza dlr1

Well it looks like once again the local manufacturers have been chasing the wrong market segment. Or should we say their lack of vision 5 to 7 years ago (ie one or so product cycles ago) has come back to bite them in the ar$#.

I bet they wish they could wind back the clock a few years… Toyota made Corollas here, Mitsubishi made a mid size 4 here, as did Holden.

So Ford is about to build a small car here again… lets hope it’s not too little, too late.
Adam (aka Mada)

yeah everybody could see the sudden rise in fuel prices and i’m also sure the local car makers can choose to pull less money out of assembling small vehicles locally compared to big cars.
VE was still the top selling vehicle in AUS last year and theres a new falcon in the 1-2 months.
Some must get off on predicting the demise of the local industry and large car sales overall.
Ever heard of sour grapes and the fact this same old tune have been sung for the past 5 years, i guess some have got to be right eventually!
The day will arrive and many will proclaim to have predicted the future…
Give me a break.
John S

if people stopped buying cheap korean imports and actually bought aussie made stuff…the industry wouldn’t be such in a bad state…but yes the local industry needs to make the decision to reduce the weight of our local dinosaurs and actually make cars that are competitive…but who cares if less cars built locally are bought locally…doesn’t the exports make up for the shortfall?
280zx

To Fruitless one i would take any car over a Corolla! Toyota reminds me of tupperware for some reason dont know why….
Frugal One

280z

Know the Corolla well, its a BRILLIANT vehicle, the market has spoken, go to a auction, its stunning what they bring.

Unlike a Mitsu or Ford junk

Cheers

F-0
AG

January sales are typically skewed due to the absence of fleet buying (due to holidays), so things aren’t as bad for the large car as the January numbers suggest.

Having said that, the longer term trend away from large cars can’t be ignored. Appears to me that creating the Territory (SUVs are one of the largest growing segments) and production of the Focus is Australia WAS pretty good foresight as was fully entrenching the Commodore in the GM global world.

Pity Toyota didn’t have a plan other than stopping Corolla production and switching into the large car segment too late. But imports of whitegoods, er I mean Corollas, is unfortunately the only plan you need to be number 1…..
280zx

You mean the market has been flooded frugal! But as i always say quantity has nothing over quality….
Adam (aka Mada)

Frugal One…
Incorrect, i work for a vehicle auction company, i see what corollas fetch, they like many passenger vehicles are tanking. I also see many ex-rental corollas too!
It would appear corolla also has fleet sales.
Come back to us when the NEW corolla can be a class leader and not just a sales leader as i say for the last time that the better cars don’nt always win the sales battle and the better selling car does not prove a more accomplished vehicle.

AG…

I agree with you that Ford developing territory and assembling focus from 2011 is good forsight into what is happening with the local large car market.
Holden with it’s exports also.

Toyota? hmmm what is thier strategy again!?
If they didn’t export half the camry/aurion volume they would be in the red once again.
Can anyone say what Toyota AUS’s strategy for the future is!?
Titan

It’s odd isn’t it that building what the masses want makes you number one. For the life of me I can’t understand why… /sarcasm

Love it or hate it, it’s a winning formula that’s not about to change anytime soon.
http://aca Luke G.T.

280zx & Adam :

Toyota has got it all going for it – quality and quantity. Just observe all the quality and customer satisfaction surveys that are frequently released and you will note that Toyota is highly competitive and right up there with the best of them in everything they do.

It’s all in the figures.

Todate, the only true critism towards the latest Corolla has been the lack of ESP of which Toyota will be introducing to the car in August (i believe) while the quality, refinement and NVH suppression is actually the best in class as per often stated by many from the motoring media.

Oh yeah, handling of the new Corolla has also been praised.

Toyota is one of those companies who are able to manufactuer quality cars in quantity unlike some other brands i can name.

Last year DRIVE published the fleet percentage of cars in Australia with approx 80% of Commodores and Falcons being fleet purchased compared to 60% private sales of the Corolla.

So yes the Corolla is 40% fleet purchased (half that of Commodores and Falcons) but also a strong private seller as it undoubtedly is one of the most balanced small cars in the industry. The amount of sales that the Corolla fetches just does not happen by mistake.
http://aca Luke G.T.

Adam :

because Toyota hasn’t talked much about thier strategy doesn’t mean they don’t have one.

However, one thing i can say for the group and that is they have certainly invested thier share of funds into the local operation over the past few years with a recent extensive modernisation of Altona, commissioning of a R&D and Styling centre, introduction of the Aurion and offcoarse establishment of our first TRD operation.

Apart from that, they have also undertaken various projects including dust control measures for TMC, sportivo suspensions now also adopted on American made Camry’s and ofcourse involvement in the development of the suspension in the latest released Cruiser while not forgetting they have the largest export programme then any in Australia.

Altona’s current annual capacity is approx 140 000 vehicles and that’s how many Camry’s and Aurions they have been putting together running at full capacity. Holden is also running at full capacity while Ford a considerable amount less while this site informed us that Mitsubishi was only running at 1/3 capacity.

I understand that recently the HODS at TMC HQ made some noise but one must remember that Toyota has a very uncanny way of containing costs therefore ensuring the extended term viability of thier operations. And nodoubt those words were heard load and clear by Altona management and all affiliated suppliers. Toyota won’t be going anywhere, anytime soon.

Mark my words.
Adam (aka Mada)

Luke G.T….

Get your hand of it!
I stated a while back that Mazda AUS does about 65,000 units a year in total while Toyota AUS does about 210,000 units a year and guess what?
Mazda AUS makes just as much profit as Toyota AUS why is that?
Toyota AUS can’t make a profit unless they have exports, while Ford AUS is the only local assembler who CAN make a profit based on local and RHD markets alone, fact.

I say this again, being top of the sales charts does not make a class leading vehicle!!!
the NEW corolla came 3 rd behind in a comparison against a mazda 3 and VW golf.
And does lack ESP, not a small thing compared to others who offer that option is it?

i never once stated that falcon, commodore had less fleet sales than corolla, just stated that corolla has far more fleet sales than say the focus, astra, golf, lancer and mazda 3, true? yes!

So Toyota is far from the perfect manufacturer amny of you make out.
I can’t believe marketing works so well!
I knew i should have taken that marketing degree…
Adam (aka Mada)

Luke GT…
Do you work in the auto industry?
Bret

Yes LukGT,
Toyota have certainly invested plenty of funds, from Govt handouts, in Australia. All the while making miserable profits vs turnover and “minimising??” tax paid.
Andrew M

Adam,
mate i totally agree with you.
i also thank you for me not having to waste time to write a long essay as i feel you have covered a few of the main points that i was going to take off on.

but just quickly to add to one of those points,
the fact remains that the corolla ISNT top of its class yet for sales it is. even when it comes to these reliability survey B/S things i believe mazda is above toyota………
sorry but its marketing, marketing, marketing that wins on the day
http://aca Luke G.T.

Adam :

As i stated, the only true gripes that exsist with the current Corolla is the lack of ESP that will be rectified in August. And lets be truthful, the Corolla has righfully earn’t itself a reputation as being an utterly reliable and possibly the most steadfast vehicle not just in it’s class but worldwide.

Despite your own personal beliefs’s nothing changes the fact that Toyota’s quality, reliability, dependability and durability is amoung the very best in each and every category that they compete witin which is just about everyone of them. Holden and Ford just simply do not exhibit the same level of consistancy within thier range of vehicle that Toyota does.

If you buy a Toyota you will buy a Toyota. If you buy a Holden who could be buying a Holden, Daewoo, Izusu or even an Opel. For those whom don’t know wouldn’t know otherwise.

Because of Toyota’s solid reputation and highly competitive cars, thier formula is obviously the most sucessful of all.

Profitability, strong sales, solid standings in quality and customer satisfaction surveys as with the vastly improved packaging and diversity of thier fleet has ensured this no matter how peeple like yourself look upon it.

One only has to acknowledge Toyota’s standing in the market to understand and name me a better judge of products then the market itself.

Toyota’s success just doesn’t not happen by mistake but more rather striking the perfect balance between operations and suppling vehicles that the market wants (being fleet, commercial or private) not what some individuals think they should be selling.

Nothing is more accurate then the market itself. If you carn’t get that right then what hope have you got. The closure of Mitsubishi and dwindling sales of Holden and Ford couldn’t be a truer example.

Toyota only fell short by 77 units of outselling Holden and Ford for the third time in 5 months. What is that telling you.
TP

HAHAHAHA Bret, Ford and Holden folks in glass houses shouldnt throw stones, they are protected by this government making us consumers pay more for vehicles and they receive huge handouts, I had the figure 6 months ago but it was like 40% of the profit they make is a handout! And what does the handout do… eg the development of hybrid Inline 6, thousands of taxpayer dollars invested into a useless project.

Luke GT I will give you a nickels worth of free advice, dont bother arguing with these idiots… look at Adam, blabbers on about his ‘oh Mazda sells less but makes more profit bla bla bla’… not a suprise he mentions Mazda as they are Ford affiliated (and he is a Ford fairy) and he neglects many other factors which effect profits, we know car manufacturers run in cycles, a company makes a loss this year and they profit by millions the next (its in their best interest to report lower profits in some cases to reduce their tax burden!)
Andrew M

TP,
you are a paranoid freak that is incapable of a “normal” discussion that involves opening your mind.

you have poor knowledge of the I6 yet you choose to embarras yourself by making silly statemants over and over again
TP

Are you denying Ford were given handouts to develop a hybrid inline 6? There is nothing paranoid, you want to make such accusations make them towards the likes of Bret (trying to claim Toyota get more handouts… a joke) or Adam (trying to blab on about profits… when anyone with half a brain is aware of the profit cycle manufacturers face)
golfschwein

I must say I agree with you, Andrew M.

Marketing, marketing and marketing wins the day. Toyota has built a reputation of – as TP and Luke GT point out – utter dependability, toughness and quality. The Corolla has always been a simple car and I’ve never heard a bad report on one. Perhaps this “reputation” is built predominantly on Corollas and Hi Luxes, because other models certianly have their histotrical issues.

Somehow, the chronic head gasket failures of the early Camrys, their crunching 3rd gear synchromesh, sun-warped speedo and fuel gauge needles and habitually peeling cloth door trims (wide body and its successor) are conveniently wallpapered over in this propagation of the reliability reputation. Goodness knows where these cars vanish to at “survey time”
golfschwein

TP. Oh Dear. Look up “Button Plan” and then tell me things aren’t harder for Holden, Ford and Toyota than they used to be.
http://AustralianCarAdvice Bilstein

Luke GT – whole hearted agree with you. The market is the only true judge of any car despite individual opinions.

One can have the best marketing of all but if a company doesn’t have a solid reputation or quality of product, they’ll only be farting in the wind no matter how much or clever thier advertising is.

At the end of the day, substance with a product speak much louder and have greater influance then any other single issue.

From a different angle of attack, if Holdens are Fords are supposedly so good according to some, then how come they have poor sales in comparison and declining.

In the hay day of the VT they sold about 8 – 9000 examples monthly but now i see Commodore sales as low as in the 3 000′s. I understand that the fashion of the market has changed sense then but it also goes to show that once Commodore buyers are now not purchasing from the rest of it’s range as they are obviously going elsewhere.
Andrew M

Bilstein
mate and where are all the commy owners going?? not to the aurion that is for sure.
if the aurion was to leap frog the commy sales then yes maybe what you say could be equated as being true,

but when they are leaving the category………

TP,
wake up mate,
any funding revolving the I6 is towards the development of the technology, not the application on the motor itself.
ford are getting funding for hydrogen studies on the I6, but that desnt mean the findings will only be relevant to the I6 does it?
IF FUNDING IS GIVEN THEN THE GOVERNMENT WILL MAKE SURE IT IS SPENT AS PER GUIDELINES

also you have got to slow down and take in what others say and consider that maybe, just maybe because it isnt what you like to hear it doesnt mean it is wrong
Andrew M

Golf,
mate the same actually goes for the hilux,
it is not the class leader by all means (just like the corolla) but they both are the 2 top sellers for toyota and both in the top 3 sellers in OZ.

toyota has marketed both of them to a point where they now become the default thought/choice for buyers of their respective category. im not saying they are bad vehicles, im just saying they are not the best
golfschwein

Luke GT, I’ll get back on track as this is all about sales. I think you raised some very good points about why and how Toyota have gotten to where they are.

Having seen what I’ve seen, I just wonder how people put the quality and reliabilty thing on a pedestal. In case you’re intrested, I’ve had 3 new Toyotas over time. Two, a HiLux and a Fat Boy Camry, lived up to the “reputation”, although the Camry’s driver door trim was shaky during my tenure. The first Camry was undependable rubbish, but still twice as good as my worst ever – a VS Commodore.
golfschwein

Good summation, Andrew M.
TP

Golf I never made reference to whether its harder or easier now… simply the fact that govt handouts still exist and Ford and Holden are among the recipients.

Andrew.M sorry, Im sure what theyve ‘learnt’ may be of some use but applying it to another engines means alot of our tax dollars went to waste.
golfschwein

Does Toyota not receive hand-outs? Just asking, cos I’m not going to look anything up. I thought they did, and was central to comments made by boss Toyota man when he was in Australia late last year.

The Hawke Gummint’s John Button devised a plan where we would see the gradual loss of protection for Aussie cars through reduced import tariffs. This would mean Aussie-built cars had to become world competitive, preferably exported and the number of manufacturers reduced to three.

One way or another, he’s getting his wish. We know what happened today.
Rick Harris

People talk about Ford going under but how long can Holden be propped up by the exports? When the Yanks get back on their feet wont they want more jobs in America for their own people and start to build their own cars? Without the exports Holden would be gone now….they only build one product here……..all the rest is Daewoo shit.
golfschwein

Rick, I don’t believe that Holden is “propped up”. Its export business is won on the strength of the product.

But even if you found support on your “propping up” assertion, I would counter that a goal’s a goal, even when it’s soccered through.
Bavarian Missile

Hey……..you still up?Pete………
Woops wrong wording………hahaha.

Yep ,they GMH should be able to stand behind what they produce…………Apparently the YANKS want it!!!!!Why??????

When America gets on their feet……………..hahaha

When will that be? Just admit US is down the drain at the moment,and Australia can give them what they need!Simple!
http://AustralianCarAdvice Bilstein

Golf, just like Toyota has the leading export programme from Australia based on the strength of thier product.
http://AustralianCarAdvice Bilstein

Andrew, judging by the increased popularity of most European and Japanese auto manufactuers, i assume alot of ex-commie owners are heading in thier direction instead because judging by the ever dwindling sales of the Commodore and Holden in general, it is bluntly obvious that many buyers are not staying with the lion badge.

Golf, the thing with Toyota despite it’s huge range and diversity of vehicles, it has been able to achieve and maintain quality of thier vehicles to rival the best of anything is each competed category hence establish a stable, consistant and competitive fleet regardless of vehicle type.

Take Holden for instance, while the Commodore is a good car within it’s own rights, most of the remaining Holden badged cars are not really anything to talk about at all and certainly don’t rate highly in any quality or customer satisfaction surveys let alone safety ratings.

Take a Toyota vehicle for example and the odds are anyone of them no matter the category will be amoung the leaders (not necessary the leader) of the pack and i am not talking about sales either but more rather reputation and product substance.

Toyota is strong, consistant and competive right across it’s entire spance of vehicles just not in one particular avenue such as Holden with the Commodore.

Another positive for Toyota because of it’s consistant fleet is that it enjoys greater redundancy to cope with the ever shifting fashion of the market.
jamison

The big car market’s decline couldnt have been predicted to be this bad 7 years ago as someone stated above.

Car development is usually 4 years long. Thats from conception to SOP (start of production). Most of that time 3.5 years are engineering. And most engineers must abide by the Chief engineer’s “master plan” from the very start. Any “big” changes closer to SOP means Millions of dollars lost in development and supplier tooling. So no, I have to stick up to the industry as it is not that “easy” to predict, as the industry relies soley on project plans stated at the start.

I can say though that Hybrid technology research has increased significantly. But still cars with this technology sells for 35k+ in Oz even for tiny cars.

And the gripe about Toyota.. again. Mazda 3 is a fine car, best buy for the buck thats for sure, but dont be so sure about that profit margin. Buck for Buck, the Mazda 3 has more features than the Corolla thats a fact, so Mazda simply cannot be raking in that much profit as they have more standard features (electronics), electronic parts cost upto 10 times that of a metallic/mechanical part.

I doubt commercially/public available stats are accurate.. as most “real” profit is internal and confidentially announced.. the marketing figures are after sales only as opposed to the real profit.. (after sales – manufacturing cost etc etc)

And again, people bagging on the Corolla or Toyota for that matter just dont get it… never will sadly. Being compared to sporty alternatives, poorly engineered rwd cars, expensive euros (with same grade parts)…

at the end, I will say, the more money you pay for your car… the higher its quality… Toyota builds/designs cars well for their price… number 1 in that department, sad to say to everyone else hoping other wise. And we’re purely talking about everyday cars as opposed to the sporty alternatives which has 1/10th the market share… if you want to make money and keep employees from being fired.. you attack the big market…

you want “exciting” cars make sure you are willing to spend the preimum dollars for it… second hand cars dont make the manufacturers money..
golfschwein

Bilstein, you mightn’t have read one of my comments fully. I’ve had a brand new Toyota Camry that was rubbish. Most of them in our fleet suffered the same problems of blown head gaskets and crunching synchros by the 40-50,000 km range. Another was good, as in reliable, just like the reputation. Most should be good. But they’re not perfect, and I scratch my head as to why people think they are.

If you find it heart warming, the Commodore VS was a disaster. My heart says buy Australian and barrack for them, but that one car has influenced my buying patterns ever since.
Bret

TP,
You’re a fair dimkun goose. At not point did I say that Toyota gets more or less handounds than any other manufacturer. I only countered a statement that implied that Toyota were pouring in millions in investment when the others were living off handouts – which is simply not true.

BTW aern’t the I6 development dollars are actually earmarked for the Focus program (sep story).
http://aca Bilstein

Golf.

to be honest, i find it hard to believe you based upon the proven steadfast nature of the Camry over the years as one of the most utterly reliable vehicles on the market alongside the Corolla.

You stated your ownership problem but then continued on to say that most in your fleet had endured the same problems. As someone with nearly 7 years Spare Parts experiance with Toyota, Holden and Coventrys (no longer employed in the industry) the Camry as with the Corolla just happened to be 2 examples that stoodout for thier impressive reliability and troublefree motoring design not to mention that the Camry is not just nationally but globally recognised for such traits.

The unfortunate downside of the internet is that people are able to access such sites and fabricated or enhance any negative (or positive) story towards a particular car or brand until thier hearts content which is why i enjoy the access to varied resources of quality and customer satisfaction surveys because it puts everything back into a much more accurate perpective which you will find is generally inline to that of market expectations.

You may recall the Australian Quality Survey last year that ‘accidentally’ just happened to get leaked to the public. The goodie about this particular survey was that it was compiled by non-other then all of the manufactuers themselves who utilsed such a compilation as a guide to compare themselves against one another.

In that particular survey the Camry received the highest score in the medium market seperated by 1 point to second place scoring being the Mazda6. Continuation from that, in the large car segment the V6 Camry comfortably satisfied second ranking behind that of the Nissan Maxima while the Commodore and Falcon pair accomodated the very last two positions.

With that to the side, one only ever has to contact organistions such as RAC or any reputatable independant mechanical workshop to understand that the humble Camry is amoung some the most reliable and trouble free examples on the road today with an impeccible history to support my claim.

That said, I believe most readers of this blog would be inclined to concur with my statement
http://aca Bilstein

Bret, Toyota as with all the other local manufactuers have recieved handouts making them no different to the rest of the mob in this regard. However, Toyota have also turned down some offers to support manufacturing of alternative means such as hybrids, diesels etc until they were confident that they will produce a hybrid Camry in Australia and stated that if they do persue such an option then they would take further grants
Bret

Bilstein, Thats what I said ……….
And yes, the govt put some money up for grants & they all declined to apply for those particular grants for alternatives, don’t paint toyota to be anything special there.

And what I find the “unfortunate downside of the internet” is that companies and thier representatives can protray themselves as private individuals and push their propaganda down everyones throats.

Don’t diss peoples genuine real life experiences, just because it doesn’t fit with your corporate line!
Adam (aka Mada)

Luke GT and TP…

Do you work in the auto industry?
Adam (aka Mada)

Also, for the last bleeding time…!

1.Reputation does not make a better vehicle.
2.Sales figures does not make a better vehicle.
3.having a top selling vehicle does not make you the most profitable, just ask Toyota.

Toyota AUS is market leader, and?? who cares, they need profit to remain viable not market share leadership and a sterling reputation for quality!!

wake up!

I mention mazda as it’s a one the best for the sales volume vers profit, Honda is the same. I couldn’t give a rats bum if Mazda is partially owned by Ford. Mazda reports profits separate form parent company Ford and has to earn it’s own keep, like Ford AUS and Holden does as opposed to Toyota AUS whcih Toyota HQ bails out, whitness the past 10 years of crappy profits as proof.
Do you think MIT would have had a better chance of staying in AUS if MIT worlwide was in as good finacial shape as Toyota HQ!?

Now i ask you how does Mazda, Subaru and Honda survive so well with miniscule fleet sales!?
Toyota has healthy retail sales, but would be half the size they are now if you took the amount of fleet sales they indulge in. Thats fact.
http://aca Bilstein

Adam :

Reputation is etsablished because of quality vehicles. How else do you gain a positive and recognised reputation otherwise.

Agree, srong vehicles do not make a better vehicle but in most cases is a good indicator of a product. In Toyota’s case, one needs to look no further but to observe and acknowledge Toyota’s consistant strong standings in quality and customer satisfaction surveys – should have to say no more.

Good examples from 2007 released results include the accidentally released Australian Quality, JD Powers of Western Australian motorists and the RAC National of which Mazda, Honda and Toyota all consistantly faired strongly in while brands such as Holden and Ford were less fortunate.

The late US Consumer Award was another beauty. Although Toyota had slipped abit they still managed Toyota, Lexus and Scion to occupy 3 of the top 6 positions.

I can not comment on Toyota’s finacial affairs in Australia because i do not understand enough about it but i do now that unlike Ford, Holden and Mitsubishi – bar the odd exception have been able to remain profitable regardless. That mentioned, lets not forgot that Toyota Australia is a subsidary of the most wealthiest and profitable automotive manufactuer in the world with an estimated worth of greater then that of Ford Motor Co, General Motors and Chysler combined and then some again.

In the past 5 years alone, TMC has reported the greatest amount of profit each year then has ever been achieved by any other manufactuer while expecting to report approx 20 billion this year for 2007.

Like i mentioned, i can not comment on their operation in Australia but put it this way, if the operation at Altona didn’t satisfy TMC’s expectation they wouldn’t be there now considering HQ attitude towards lean and efficient operations – Kaizen ring a bell.

Another valid point is that the Australian operations must be doing alot better and more viable then people like yourself care to give credit to based upon the ever increasing investments TMC has granted Toyota Australia over the past couple of years alone because we all know the HODS in Japan don’t release funds easily.

Regarding sales, Toyota enjoys private sales everybit as much as fleet and that’s how thier fleet and corporate structure has been geared to satisfy. Judging by thier success not just in sales but customer acceptance and huge profit margins above that of any other, it it obviuosly a highly balanced and lucrative structure.

And lets not to pass up the fact that in recent times Toyota hasn’t been the company that has retrenched workers (Holden & Ford), ceased production of long standing cars (Fairlane) or will be doing away with indigenous engines in favour of global examples instead.

Infact, local operation have gone the otherway with the introduction of the Aurion, TRD aswell as R&D and styling departments hence thier local presance has infact increased not decreased.

It’s all a matter of acknoledging the big picture not just snippets of it.
Steve

Sales of the Corolla only prove one thing…. how low the majority of drives on the roads expectations are of a car.

I am too passionate about vehicles in general to even acknowledge the corolla. I have driven one, a recent one my mates girlfriend owns. I think it’s an appauling and makeshift vehicle that happens to have 4 wheels and moves in the correct direction.

Speed doesn’t kill, Bad roads, bad driving skills and bad cars do. I expect worse handling from a Cadillac. I vowed to never sit in a Corolla again, unless it’s an Initial D Replica.
TP

Bla Bla Bla Adam…. sales CAN be linked to better vehicles… reputation IS built of quality vehicles. As Bilstein alluded to, people dont buy a vehicle just because of some reputation, they have their own positive personal experiences of Toyota… fair enough a minority may, but Im talking the majority of people. You seem to think in your concepts that people are ignorant, and therefore what I just stated above does not apply… but unfortunately when someone forks out $20k+ of their money, they do choose the BEST vehicle. I wish I could say the same for the Falcon and Commodore, but they make 80% fleet sales… meanwhile Toyotas models sell for the most part predominatly to private buyers, the people who really do search out the best deal.
Bret

TP
And just who buys all of the ex-fleet Falcons & Commodores? Private buyers. Why? Because most recognise that an ex-fleet Falcon/Commodores will do a better job for them than a new Toyota when they fork out their own $20k+
golfschwein

Bilstein, the Camry I’m referring to is the first of the Aussie made series circa 1989 to whenever it was replaced by the wider model.

Okay, that was 17 years ago, and that car won’t be popping up in any current surveys but Toyota’s reputation was as entrenched then as it is now. It’s a shame you can’t believe me. The car was delivered with mis-matching interior A-pillar garnishes and went on to the afore-mentioned head gasket explosion and third gear synchro troubles by the mid 40 thousands.

The company (Atkins Carlyle – if you’re a Covs man, you’ll know it) had a fleet of say 20 to 30 of these things, and they developed a reputation within the company for showing these traits.

Oh well, they were better than the Camiras they replaced. It became a common sight for Camiras to be returned on the back of a truck after coming to an AC-Delco derived total stop. Once off the truck, they’d miraculously start again.
golfschwein

heh heh. Full marks to Toyota for not axing their indigenous engines.
mark

Can i just say it is not a bad thing that toyota has low profit as it means they are running at less margin and focusing on turnover, also look at the amount toyota spend on sponsorship nationwide that all takes away from profit. it is a known fact that the 3 car makers in oz all make a loss in local manufacturing due to tooling cost and labor cost. the bulk of profit is made from importing, options and after market parts. Now tell me what cost mazda has in oz other than a office???????
TP

NO BRET…. they buy them because by then they have depreicated by $10k and the saving in cash outweighs the possibility of a breakdown!
http://AustralianCarAdvice Bilstein

Bret, who buys ex-fleet Toyota’s ??

Private buyers !!

Why …

Because most recognise that ex-fleet Toyota’s will do a better job for them then a new Holden/Ford when they fork out thier own $20k+
Bret

TP, typical uninformed comment – you have not idea do you?
One day, if you ever get into the real world you may understand. The only ex-fleet cars going anywhere near $10k are Camrys – nobody wants the trouble of a used large FWD car.

Bilstein, and where do the fleet companies take the biggest ‘hit’: Camrys.
BTW Funny how quite a few of the Toyota ‘supporters’ all make exactly the same gramatical errors. Kinda gives the multiple names/same never ending mantra.
http://aca Bilstein

Bret, i’m not sure what you mean about errors or multiple names.

Judging by the strong sales of new and used Camry’s, i also don’t understand what you mean by the trouble of used large FWD cars.
TP

Bret your an idiot, the $10k was an exaggeration I did not mean that to be the exact figures, the point which you avoid is that the reason why Commodores and Falcons still get bought by prviates is because fleet vehicles are CHEAP. 80% of Falcons and Commodores sold are to fleets. The highest selling Totoyta fleet vehicle is the Corolla, at only 60%. Fair enough Toyota have more vheicles in their range to fleets, however you can see with the Corolla for example that its 2nd place in most vehicles OVERALL sold to the Commodore, while when you take fleets away the Corolla gets to number 1 while the Commodore doesnt even feature in the top 5! The point Im making, the people who have stringent criteria for purchasing a vehicles (prviate buyers) tend to buy Toyotas while those who can risk it breaking down etc, as its a company vehicle, buy a Falcon or Commodore which then makes its way to prviate market, cheaper, thus making it worthwhile for people to buy it and take the risk.
Andrew M

TP,
wouldnt it be great if the world was as simple and as easy to comprehend as you seem to think it is.

I assume you are a youngster thats likes listening to your ipod so here is a quote for you to here in full song next time you pop a bit of foam in your ear

“go take a step outside, see whats shakin in the real world”
(John Buttler by the way)
jbot

Bret, even unused Falcons depreciate a hell of a lot in a few years. My brother bought a brand new 2005 (Dec build) BFMk2 XT in about April last year and it cost him $11k less (about $23k) than it would to buy a “new” 2007 built car.
http://aca Bilstein

TP, just to correct you my friend, fleet sales of the Corolla is approx 40% with the remaining bulk being private as published by DRIVE.

However, despite the Corolla, Camry, Hilux and Cruisers being good fleet sellers, they also enjoy strong private sales far beyond the average percentage of Commodores and Falcons which only have an approx 20% retail selling.
TP

AndrewM Im sorry you cant comprehend common sense…. nothing to do with my logic, its the facts in this case.

Exactly Jbot doesnt take Einstein to realise that either, Falcons and Commodores are renowned for being big depreciators…anyone with a high school level of economics can understand this, lots of sales to fleets, as soon as they are offloaded onto prviate market supply > demand = cheap cheap cheap.
TP

Bilstein 60% was as per drive in like 2006 in article ‘Myth Busted : Australia’s favourite car’… that must have changed then, even better reflection on Toyota!
Andrew M

once again TP,
yes wouldnt it be great if your theories were that simple…
this high school economics you speak of obviously doesnt factor in that possibly there is a higher demand for used commodores and falcons to offset the high numbers of fleet disposal………
of and by the way falcons and commodores are more sought after on the 3nd hand market

last time i looked the camry’s and Aurions dont fare anybetter than commys and falcons.
perhaps even though there is a lower quantity of them on the second hand market it is also obvious when related back to this “high school economics” that the demand on 2nd aurions and camrys is low

Jbot,
just interested, how did your brother get a “new 2005″ model 1 1/2 years after the fact?
he’d want to hope they didnt sting him the full list price
I’m also pretty positive that you wouldnt still be paying list price for an 18 month old Aurion
http://aca Bilstein

Andrew, i am not sure were you get your logic from but resonable resale value of the Camry is directly related to it’s positive used market demand.

When it comes to third hand, you can keep it.

The more i read of your comments the more i understand they are shot from the hip with questionable value or substance.

It is easy to pass any comment as one desires but wether it is accurate against the actual market can often be another world.

I am learning to take your responses with a grain of salt based on the reality of the market weighted against your comments.
http://aca Bilstein

TP, DRIVE published a special report dedicated to fleet percentage sales of vehicles in mid 2007 and i have sense visited it from time to time to brush up my knowledge.

Latest report, Commodores and Falcons approx 80% fleet bound while 60% of Corolla’s brought privately.

Good chatting with you on this site. Came across it a few days ago at work when someelse was browsing through and have been addicted to it ever sense. I think the wife is getting upset with the time i have spent on the computer lately but i am enjoy the exeriance none the less as there has been alot of rain in my part of the country lately.

Nice weather predicted for tomorrow so probably less contact as i catch up on external house chores such as mowing the lawns and washing the cars.

Not sure how long i can keep going until the boss (wife) cracks down on me put i will persist until then so when i disappear you’ll know when she has won and i lost.

Cheers
Andrew M

mate my logic comes from seeing camrys/aurions beside falcons and commodores in the car yard and papers and seeing that they fare no better in terms of 2nd hand pricing.

also carsales for eg actually shows you the most searched vehicles and the top 2 always happen to be falcon and commodore

where do you get your logic to think that i am wrong?
http://aca Bilstein

Andrew, i don’t dispute that Commodore and Faloons are amoung the most researched but what i don’t understand is why such a poor standing when it comes to private sales.

My guess is that most people like to thrash these cars when it is not thier own but won’t actually purchase them with thier own cash because of thier questionable and somewhat grey history as a dependable motor vehicle.

I believe i won’t be to far removed from the truth when i say that.

I, myself enjoy driving a Commodore or Falcon hard but when it comes to being on owner of one and having to support thier often troublesome nature, i all of a sudden become not so keen. Basically, they are OK when they are not mine.
Bret

TP, Bilsein
And just what % of fleet corollas are user chooser? I’d bet SFA. A large chunk of Falcon/Commodore fleet sales ARE chosen by the indidual, many are salary sacrificed private sales hidden in the flet numbers.
Camry/380/Magna ARE the do suffer the biggest losses for fleet companies at disposal time – your propaganda cant change real facts.

Bilstein – yep you’ve confirmed your identity and purpose. New ISP was it to get around the ban? Toyota paid stooge!
Alex

Hi mates, as a man with passion of car, I will never buy a corolla.
Will

So much passione here boys, but be aware, here comes Hyundai-Kia. There seems to be so much argument over trivia on this blog. I could not give a rats arse what others prefer, it is what I like at the time and I don’t care what badge it wears.

I have owned 37 new cars to date. The best one I have owned, will be the next one ha ha ha and it sure will not be a diesel stinkbomb that sounds like a tractor, maybe auto-gas is the way.